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Result : South Africa v England | 2nd Test | Jan 2-6, 2016 | Cape Town | Match Drawn

Amla and abs perfomence in Australia (including 196) came on some pretty disgraceful wickets but it was about class and greatness.. But when kohli and Williamson scored on the same wickets they were declared FTBs

I see lack of consistency here
 
Chrish said:
Amla and abs perfomence in Australia (including 196) came on some pretty disgraceful wickets but it was about class and greatness.. But when kohli and Williamson scored on the same wickets they were declared FTBs

I see lack of consistency here
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Don't point out inconvenient facts. :60:
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]
 
Chrish said:
Amla and abs perfomence in Australia (including 196) came on some pretty disgraceful wickets but it was about class and greatness.. But when kohli and Williamson scored on the same wickets they were declared FTBs

I see lack of consistency here
Click to expand...

When Amla,KP,Moeen etc. perform well - pitch conditions and quality of opposition does not matter Bilal7 logic :P
 
Close to 1000 runs now then for the fall of 9 wickets with a couple of them being run outs Yikes!
 
dandapinda said:
220 odd runs in whole day on a flat pitch....pathetic.
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They started the day around 500 runs behind. The only stat that matters is the wickets. 1 wicket lost. When you're 500 runs behind with the only possible positive outcome being a draw, what manner of batting do you suggest?
 
Abdullah719 said:
They started the day around 500 runs behind. The only stat that matters is the wickets. 1 wicket lost. When you're 500 runs behind with the only possible positive outcome being a draw, what manner of batting do you suggest?
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That's why I said SA is defensive sides & as a neutral this is boring to watch

If they cannot even score 3/3.5 in afloat wicket what's the use of watching such match.
 
Abdullah719 said:
They started the day around 500 runs behind. The only stat that matters is the wickets. 1 wicket lost. When you're 500 runs behind with the only possible positive outcome being a draw, what manner of batting do you suggest?
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Probably throwing your wicket away and then flirt with the reporter on your way back to the change room.
 
dandapinda said:
That's why I said SA is defensive sides & as a neutral this is boring to watch
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What would you have them do? This isn't ODI cricket and the England seam attack is pretty good. SA cannot win the match, so the only thing to do is make it safe. This is a series they can still win, so they don't want to go 0-2 down.
 
dandapinda said:
That's why I said SA is defensive sides & as a neutral this is boring to watch

If they cannot even score 3/3.5 in afloat wicket what's the use of watching such match.
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Again, please suggest an alternative method of batting when the other team has put up 600+ runs? The rate of scoring does not matter when you have to play for a draw, unless you're suggesting SA should go and bat positively, while also posting 800 runs to put England under pressure.
 
Robert said:
What would you have them do? This isn't ODI cricket and the England seam attack is pretty good. SA cannot win the match, so the only thing to do is make it safe. This is a series they can still win, so they don't want to go 0-2 down.
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Can't they score 300 runs per day in a flat pitch in their own backyard??
 
dandapinda said:
Can't they score 300 runs per day in a flat pitch in their own backyard??
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All batters out of form barring perhaps AB, no 100 partnerships in a year and team devoid of any semblance of confidence, while staring down the barrel after the opponent scored 600... and they should think about "let's try and put up 300 without losing any wickets today"? Really?
 
Ozymandiasza said:
Probably throwing your wicket away and then flirt with the reporter on your way back to the change room.
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I agree SA is in terminal decline,still team with supposed ATGs should able to score at least 300 runs in a day in one if the most flat wickets in earth where previous innings RR is 5.
 
Abdullah719 said:
All batters out of form barring perhaps AB, no 100 partnerships in a year and team devoid of any semblance of confidence, while staring down the barrel after the opponent scored 600... and they should think about "let's try and put up 300 without losing any wickets today"? Really?
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2 sessions are played with 1 wicket gone still yuk ruling below 2.5 for an entire session? Who will watch such matches in future if this continues like this?
 
dandapinda said:
2 sessions are played with 1 wicket gone still yuk ruling below 2.5 for an entire session? Who will watch such matches in future if this continues like this?
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I don't think you're getting the point. Runs are immaterial here. They need to spend time at the crease. They can not win this match.
 
Robert said:
Of course, but they would likely be all out if they did and heading for an innings defeat.
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Common,this is not a crumbling pitch.

This is why I have grudging admiration for OZ they rarely played like this when they are no 1
 
thinks England declared earlier, should've batted two full days. Now they Allowed Saf to back in the series and back in the form.
 
Smbhayi said:
thinks England declared earlier, should've batted two full days. Now they Allowed Saf to back in the series and back in the form.
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Hindsight. They had to declare because they wanted to win the match. Had they delayed the declaration, people would have accused them of negative tactics and not giving their bowlers ample time to bowl SA out.
 
dandapinda said:
I don't like teams try to save test match from their 1st innings :)

What you shown here is last innings which I absolutely like....
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Their first innings rpo in SL was lower than what it is now, I'm sure they tried to pull this off but failed.
 
dandapinda said:
I don't like teams try to save test match from their 1st innings :)

What you shown here is last innings which I absolutely like....
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Lol did you really think SA can win this match after conceding 600+ runs in first innings?
 
Ozymandiasza said:
Their first innings rpo in SL was lower than what it is now, I'm sure they tried to pull this off but failed.
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Match is in SL where opposition always struggles,so kind of okay....but to score 212 runs in a day for loss of 1 wicket for whole day shows ultra defensive cricket which I don't like.
 
dandapinda said:
Match is in SL where opposition always struggles,so kind of okay....but to score 212 runs in a day for loss of 1 wicket for whole day shows ultra defensive cricket which I don't like.
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Fair enough, I think most people are trying to convince you that they didn't have much choice and that calling them pathetic in out of line.

I have no problem though, "best" I've seen my team bat in tests in a long while.
 
Ozymandiasza said:
Fair enough, I think most people are trying to convince you that they didn't have much choice and that calling them pathetic in out of line.

I have no problem though, "best" I've seen my team bat in tests in a long while.
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It may be okay for avoiding defeat but for long term health of test cricket such defensive attitudes are not okay.

Hope they score quickly tomorrow just to keep some interest in this match.
 
dandapinda said:
Common,this is not a crumbling pitch.

This is why I have grudging admiration for OZ they rarely played like this when they are no 1
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Yes, when they had excellent batting backed up by Gilchrist and two champion bowlers. This SA side do not.
 
dandapinda said:
Where did I mentioned that in this thread...all I am saying is play little bit entertainingly on a dead pitch.
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I think SA did pretty well after having 6-7 newbies in the team plus their key players either injured or badly out of form. Maybe not a good watching experience from neutral POV.
 
Don't watch the test if its not entertaining enough for you. You want quick scoring? T20 is your game....
 
Good comeback from South Africa. Yes a bit slow scoring but they were down in the dumps as a team and needed to turn a corner. Got to start somewhere.

Personally as an England fan I am still feeling optimistic and think we still have a chance of winning. But a draw is most likely and that would be a fair result.

1-0 up after 2 Tests with 2 to play, I'd take that.
 
Chrish said:
Amla and abs perfomence in Australia (including 196) came on some pretty disgraceful wickets but it was about class and greatness.. But when kohli and Williamson scored on the same wickets they were declared FTBs

I see lack of consistency here
Click to expand...

Both don't have...you know what I mean...
 
Atleast Amla is scoring quicker than in SL. He tuk-tuked the Lankans for more than a 90 overs (overs in a day) by himself.
 
I have come to admire Finn.. He is a terrific prospect and should be given new ball to utilize the max potential. May hurt the pride of Jimmy but oh well..
 
276 runs behind is still a massive deficeit. S.A need atleast 2 more sessions of solid batting to really feel they are back in a safe position. S.A have a long tail so england can still force themselves into a strong positon here.
 
Mamoon said:
Yes, Cook is. Covers all basis, and has starred in series wins in Australia and England and has the opportunity to conquer SA as well. Was the best player in Australia, best player and captain in India and captain in SA. All before/just after the age of 30. Not to forget an enviable record in Asia overall.

That's a dream career for an Englishman. Not to mention one of the fittest cricketer in 150 years of Test cricket - has played over 120 Tests in 10 years and is never injured, and still manages to bat for longer periods than others.

Sir Alaistair Cook, you have my utmost respect. :bow:
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Cook averages less than 40 against the two best bowling attacks in the world, Australia and South Africa. On the contrary, Amla averages 50+ against Australia, England, Pakistan, and New Zealand - best bowling attacks of his time. How many batsmen have such a balanced record against strong bowling sides? Amla is anything but overrated in tests.

Here are Cook's averages in Ashes. Except, one Ashes series in 2010, he was below mediocre in each and everyone of them.

2006: 27.60
2009: 24.66
2010: 127.66
2013: 27.70
2014: 24.60
2015: 36.66

He was again mediocre whenever he faced stronger Pakistani bowling attack.
2010: 23.85 when he faced Asif, Aamir, and Wahab
2011: 26.50 when he faced Ajmal and Gul
2015: Could not score a century after first test (minus Yasir Shah). He was dismissed by Yasir Shah in 3 out of next 4 innings.

He is a very good test batsman but calling him an ATG and rating him above Amla and Devillers is pure bias.
 
^ Yes, it has been documented that he has not been great against top class pace attacks, but he has made up for it by excelling against spin and in conditions vast majority of non-Asian batsmen fail.
 
There is no way SA could have won that match. Any sane captain would want to go to the third test with a chance to draw the series rather than avoiding a whitewash.

Cook's double century in UAE on more than 500 deliveries was highly praised but Amla's effort (at almost same SR and in worst situation) is being criticized, this is irony at its best!
 
Mamoon said:
^ Yes, it has been documented that he has not been great against top class pace attacks, but he has made up for it by excelling against spin and in conditions vast majority of non-Asian batsmen fail.
Click to expand...

However, the same argument fails for Younis and Amla somehow.
 
The_Odd_One said:
However, the same argument fails for Younis and Amla somehow.
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Younis has not starred in any tough overseas series win like Cook. He has no Cook's Australia and Cook's India on his CV - only good knocks here and there.

The only away series Younis has helped us win vs Sri Lanka in 2015.

He can become an ATG if he helps us win a series in England and/or Australia, which he cannot.
 
Mamoon said:
Younis has not starred in any tough overseas series win like Cook. He has no Cook's Australia and Cook's India on his CV - only good knocks here and there.

The only away series Younis has helped us win vs Sri Lanka in 2015.

He can become an ATG if he helps us win a series in England and/or Australia, which he cannot.
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And how many series has Tendulkar won in Australia and South Africa? He is still the best batsman, regardless.

Bowlers win you test matches and batsmen win you ODIs. Yes, Cook played scored heavy runs in that series but you forgot to give credit to the English bowlers who were consistently able to take 10 Australian wickets in every innings.

Yes, Younis has not won Pakistan any series overseas but then he barely got a chance to play overseas and sadly he will not be able to in the future as well because he plays for a week team.
 
dandapinda said:
2 sessions are played with 1 wicket gone still yuk ruling below 2.5 for an entire session? Who will watch such matches in future if this continues like this?
Click to expand...

Is something wrong with you? I don't think you understand cricket at all. 99% of cricket sides try and do what RSA is doing when they don't have a chance of winning. So what exactly is your point? Or are you trying to troll?
And by the way if you don't watch test matches like thisn, good for you. Go watch T20 when common sense is not a requirement, just slogging. That should appeal to you.
 
dandapinda said:
Match is in SL where opposition always struggles,so kind of okay....but to score 212 runs in a day for loss of 1 wicket for whole day shows ultra defensive cricket which I don't like.
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I'm pretty sure RSA does not care what you think. They will try and save this game and win the next two. Winning the series. If they pull it off are you still going to complain how they did it? No one cares mate. Your opinion on how the game is played is irrelevant.
 
James said:
Good comeback from South Africa. Yes a bit slow scoring but they were down in the dumps as a team and needed to turn a corner. Got to start somewhere.

Personally as an England fan I am still feeling optimistic and think we still have a chance of winning. But a draw is most likely and that would be a fair result.

1-0 up after 2 Tests with 2 to play, I'd take that.
Click to expand...
Think you missed something. :amla
 
Chrish said:
Amla and abs perfomence in Australia (including 196) came on some pretty disgraceful wickets but it was about class and greatness.. But when kohli and Williamson scored on the same wickets they were declared FTBs

I see lack of consistency here
Click to expand...

You can't seriously be comparing the WACA deck amla made that classic knock on to the dead tracks we gave india when they toured?

That WACA deck had more than enough for the bowlers, in fact both teams got rolled first innings but then we had those classic knocks from ab and amla.
 
As for the people going after SA for trying to save this match, are you guys trolling or you do you just not get test cricket?

After that stokes brutality all SA can get out of this game is a draw a bit of time to catch their breath and a series that is still alive, they just need to stop the bleeding and start again if you don't get that then this really isn't the sport for you.
 
By posting that scorecard you're just proving that you didn't actually watch that aus vs SA test, i wish we had got the same deck for the kiwi test.

You might as well say the green tinged deck england got for the Sydney ashes test was the same as the utter road we gave india last year, both at the scg so must be the same right?


If you are going to make these sort of posts try actually watching cricket that doesn't involve india.
 
trogger said:
By posting that scorecard you're just proving that you didn't actually watch that aus vs SA test, i wish we had got the same deck for the kiwi test.

You might as well say the green tinged deck england got for the Sydney ashes test was the same as the utter road we gave india last year, both at the scg so must be the same right?


If you are going to make these sort of posts try actually watching cricket that doesn't involve india.
Click to expand...

First innings is more bowling friendly but second innings it's flat wicket...
 
dandapinda said:
First innings is more bowling friendly but second innings it's flat wicket...
Click to expand...

There was still help in the 2nd dig, we just didn't bowl well and they played very very well.

Remember i wasn't the one saying the pitch was unplayable i was replying to somebody saying that pitch was exactly the same as what we served up india which is just wrong and anybody who watched both series would know that.

The gabba and Adelaide were very flat for SA but the WACA had enough help and the WACA is where amla made the knock that started this whole convo.
 
South Africa v England | 2nd Test | Jan 2-6, 2016 | Cape Town | Match Thread

trogger said:
There was still help in the 2nd dig, we just didn't bowl well and they played very very well.

Remember i wasn't the one saying the pitch was unplayable i was replying to somebody saying that pitch was exactly the same as what we served up india which is just wrong and anybody who watched both series would know that.

The gabba and Adelaide were very flat for SA but the WACA had enough help and the WACA is where amla made the knock that started this whole convo.
Click to expand...

Problem is in many matches pitch going to be eased as match progresses.If bowling is not good enough it's easier for batsman to score right?
 
dandapinda said:
Problem is in many matches pitch going to be eased as match progresses.If bowling is not good enough it's easier for batsman to score right?
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Overall it was still a more helpful pitch than what we served up for india, the bounce alone was something we just didn't see all series vs india.
 
dandapinda said:
No need of other tests even in this example you shown combined total in second innings is 891 from 190 overs
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He isn't completely wrong tbh.. That WACA pitch had more bounce in it compared to game this year but still it's not the same infamous WACA wicket of 80s/ 90s. It has been flattened out over the course of the years

and I don't see how other two pitches were any different than "rubbish served to India"
 
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Chrish said:
He isn't completely wrong tbh.. That WACA pitch had more bounce in it compared to game this year but still it's not the same infamous WACA wicket of 80s/ 90s. It has been flattened out over the course of the years

and I don't see how other two pitches were any different than "rubbish served to India"
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i never said the WACA pitch was the old school deck from the 80's or that the other decks in that series weren't dead, i was replying to you saying that amla made his 196 on a disgraceful deck no different to the flat ones we gave india.

You were wrong then and you're still wrong now no matter how many times you try and change the subject and talk about other pitches or series.
 
trogger said:
You were wrong then and you're still wrong now no matter how many times you try and change the subject and talk about other pitches or series.
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Smoke a piece pipe.. No need to get cranky
 
No need to get personal simply because your diversion tactics didn't work.
 
Anyway i don't want to get dragged down to this level, i should have said from the start that i thought kohli batted wonderfully at adelaide against us and amla batted wonderfully at the WACA against us, if you have some issue that makes you incapable of respecting quality batting unless it fits into your agenda then i actually feel sorry for you.

I can respect a quality innings even if i don't like the team the player or the result that it caused, it is the way an adult should watch sport.
 
My post of Waca not the same pitch from 80/90 was never directed toward you. Some fan boys on here have perception that Waca is still the same wicket after all these years and scoring ton on this wicket is the hallmark of greatness. But you went into defensive mode without any reason

If you have read my previous post you would know I am one of his admirers (not a fan boy)
 
While Amla is lionized a bit much here, I watched the highlights yesterday, he seemed far more assured at the crease than AB.
AB had a torrid time against Finn in particular.
Par for the course, I dont really rate AB anyhow.
 
The_Odd_One said:
And how many series has Tendulkar won in Australia and South Africa? He is still the best batsman, regardless.

Bowlers win you test matches and batsmen win you ODIs. Yes, Cook played scored heavy runs in that series but you forgot to give credit to the English bowlers who were consistently able to take 10 Australian wickets in every innings.

Yes, Younis has not won Pakistan any series overseas but then he barely got a chance to play overseas and sadly he will not be able to in the future as well because he plays for a week team.
Click to expand...

Tendulkar's greatness has more to do with his longevity. He has been a top class batsman for over 18 years and 180 Tests (discounting his slump at the end) and has remained at the top while three generations of bowlers came and failed to conquer him. This sheer grandeur of his stature as a batsman puts him in the top 5 of all time.

Younis' case is different - he was not good enough for this level till his late 20's in 2005/2006 and has been a top batsman for a decade only. In this period, he has played very little overseas cricket. He did well in England in 2006 but was completely overshadowed by MoYo. In South Africa, he played well in 2006/2007 but both Inzamam and Kamran played excellent innings as well. In fact, MoYo played the best innings of the series from our side in the third Test where we would have been bowled out for less than 70 without his 88.

He skipped the tours in 2010 and in SA in 2013, he got a hundred in Cape Town but so did Shafiq. He has not played enough in those conditions and when he has done so, he hasn't shaped the series in our favor while standing out compared to his peers, and this where he falls behind Cook in comparison.

As I mentioned earlier, all of that can change if Younis does something special this year, that will help him go down as an ATG.
 
They have to take chances against Bhai,optimistic and Root and attack them. Force Cook to overbowl his seamers . Can't afford to let the likes of Bhai bowl maidens at this stage of the game.
 
Mamoon said:
Don't point out inconvenient facts. :60:

[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

Don't tell me you didn't watch that series either. The pitches were much better than the ones we've been seeing in Australia over the last couple of years. The WACA pitch was like the pitch in the current match but had even more pace and bounce. Anyone who is watching Finn bowl right now or who watched the Saffers bowl on day-one will testify that this pitch is not nearly as bad as the more recent Australian pitches.

Besides, that innings is rated so highly because it is one of the best counter-attacking innings played in Australia for a long time. If you want to watch Amla grit it out on a tough pitch, watch him bat in Sri Lanka or the UAE or back in 2010 in India. You can also watch him and Smith score match-winning centuries in that 90 all-out, 45 all-out match.
 
A result is still possible in this match. This might turn out like that Abu Dhabi test, but it remains to be seen if the South African bowlers have any confidence left at all.
 
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