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Ricky Ponting or AB de Villiers - Who would you take in ODIs?

Hasan123

Hasan123

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Not interested in test stats , only odi performances. Who would you take in your odi team?

Discuss.
 
Even though I am South African, I would choose Ponting.
 
Ponting..Has done better than ABD in World Cups.

Only Sachin and Viv are ahead of him.
 
Pollack said:
Ditch Both and Pick Kohli though hard not to select punter.
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I am afraid, ponting is better than sachin. While sachin is considered better than kohli. So you cannot say ditch both and pick kohli

Regards
 
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How much of Ponting's stellar record is due to a great team, though?

Is ABDV an epic choker or a good batsman amongst chokers?
 
EAsy choice here Ponting.. When a guy is part of 4 world Cup finals and 3 wins, its an easy choice.
 
AB de Villiers. Both would be in my all-time XI however. de Villiers is the second best ODI batsman of all time, behind Viv Richards.
 
Chalk and cheese really, even Kohli is better than AB dv let alone Ponting.
 
Ponting was my favourite.

He used to play the bowl as late as possible.

Shoaib Akhter at his resignation interview mentioned Ponting and Gilchrist as one of the most difficult batsmen.

ABDV will get the praise once he makes SA win the 2019 WC, but that's for Pakistan.
 
super hitter said:
agree! but the stats tell a different story
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Stats don't tell the real story at least not in present day and age when the disparity between bat and bowl is so enormous. AB dV is a player with all flair and less substance. His countryman Greame Smith was a better batsman than him.
 
SA won today, but it was somewhat a prime example of why I don't judge AB by just his breathtaking stats. There are moments in a game when the your side is just a little behind the opposition and you need to take the initiative to change the favors. Today AB was batting brilliantly but when in the last 5 overs - those that were actually watching would know - there were those little moments where he needed to seize the initiative by hitting a boundary or getting that one good over - he was struggling big. Each time. And those little moments say a lot about the batsman.

Ponting over AB. For the others here, Kohli over both.
 
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Bilal7 said:
AB de Villiers. Both would be in my all-time XI however. de Villiers is the second best ODI batsman of all time, behind Viv Richards.
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No he isn't. Tendulkar and Ponting are still better LOI players than de Villiers.

Tendulkar has won India two world cup matches vs Pakistan being a part of WC winning team while Ponting has been a part of 3 WCs winning side.

AB is a level behind the three although ahead of Dhoni, kohli and others.
 
Ab Fan said:
No he isn't. Tendulkar and Ponting are still better LOI players than de Villiers.

Tendulkar has won India two world cup matches vs Pakistan being a part of WC winning team while Ponting has been a part of 3 WCs winning side.

AB is a level behind the three although ahead of Dhoni, kohli and others.
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3 actually. He played 5 WC matches against Pak, and he was the MOM in 3 of those matches (1992 WC, 2003 WC, 2011 WC).
 
If we solely talk about the batsmanship then AB must be ahead,he's more complete batsman

But there is a lot more things in sport particularly in team sport, how you perform in one dimension-no matter how important that dimension is to the teams success

And as much as it pains me personally to say this,I think Ricky in that regard might trump
 
Hitman said:
3 actually. He played 5 WC matches against Pak, and he was the MOM in 3 of those matches (1992 WC, 2003 WC, 2011 WC).
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Okay.. Forgot that.I remember 96 WC where he scored 50+ against most or perhaps all of the teams except a 30 odd vs Pakistan in Quarter finals.
 
pacesensation said:
I am afraid, ponting is better than sachin. While sachin is considered better than kohli. So you cannot say ditch both and pick kohli

Regards
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Actually its not about who is better than whom. The question was whom you would pick for ODI. It's perfectly fine if you feel Ponting better than Sachin but I hope its after properly considering advantages and disadvantages,technique and performance of both without being biased or prejudiced. I do not rate kohli and ponting higher than Sachin still I would pick kohli as 1st and pointing as 2nd preference for ODIs.
 
spade said:
Stats don't tell the real story at least not in present day and age when the disparity between bat and bowl is so enormous. AB dV is a player with all flair and less substance. His countryman Greame Smith was a better batsman than him.
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I think this thread is about LOI's and u really believe smith is better player than AB

AB is an unbelievable player in lmited over cricket but here his counterpart is arguably the 2nd or 3rd best player the cricket history has ever seen
 
TestMatch said:
How much of Ponting's stellar record is due to a great team, though?

Is ABDV an epic choker or a good batsman amongst chokers?
Click to expand...

Ponting on his last legs took a very weak side to a very competitive total in the 2011 QF singlehandedly.
It required a special innings from Yuvi to end Australia's dominance in WC. The guy simply loved the big stage. As good as AB is, Ponting had a bigger heart and greater intelligence.
 
spade said:
Stats don't tell the real story at least not in present day and age when the disparity between bat and bowl is so enormous. AB dV is a player with all flair and less substance. His countryman Greame Smith was a better batsman than him.
Click to expand...

I'm no ABentina but AB is way ahead of Kohli in ODI's.
Kohli needs to perform in ICC events and win matches outside of India too.
AB is a world cup away from being a top 3/5 bat of all time.
 
It's tough.

But in ranking I d go with:

1. Ponting
2. AB
3. Lara/Sachin
4. Kohli

Viv is the king though. I'm also tempted to put Kohli at 3.
 
soso_killer said:
I'm no ABentina but AB is way ahead of Kohli in ODI's.
Kohli needs to perform in ICC events and win matches outside of India too.
AB is a world cup away from being a top 3/5 bat of all time.
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Who all would you have in your top 5 bat of all time?
 
Ponting had a bigger heart but it remains to be seen how much does ABD's skills make up for his lack of heart.

The next 2 years will reveal a lot.

ABD though is defo the better bat. That guy can score fast even when he is uncomfortable. Just needs to come up the order. 4 is ok...3 would be even better.
 
I will take AB. Ponting played in a much stronger team and his WC record is not even that great. Clicked in only one WC knockout game. One must first check his low scores in all other knock outs.
 
Punter. At least, I could always count on him turning up when the team needed him, whereas the other is a gutless coward. Objectively looking at it, Ponting played in a stronger team but he also played in an era when the conditions were less skewed towards the batsmen. He's also the better fielder by absolute miles. The only way de Villiers gets a look in is if my wicketkeeper is injured.
 
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Ponting is behind Viv, SRT, Kohli and De Villers but ahead of guys like Lara, Amla, Dean Jones etc in OdI
 
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Ponting.

AB still hasn't taken the responsibility of batting up the order.
 
Ab Fan said:
Who all would you have in your top 5 bat of all time?
Click to expand...

There's never been a clear standout ODI player for me as in Tests, i.e. a player who performs in all conditions and in ICC events as well. So I've never had a list.
Picking players based purely on who won an x amount of WC seems fundamentally flawed for me.

Yes world cups are important, very important more than bilaterals. However bilaterals are important too in their own context.
The team that wins a world cup deserves full credit and I don't want to sound ambiguous about that.
But is a team that wins a tournament necessarily the best team in the world or a particular region? Or are they simply the best performing team in that tournament?

Let's take a look at Portugal, they won the Euros but are they the best team in Europe ATM? IMO that's a big NO. I would still have Germany above them. Not because Germany won the last WC, but have been on a consistent run since.

Bilaterals are a perfect build up towards the main event which might or might not be won by the best side in the world. Players should travel abroad and beat teams in their backyard and win these tournaments too. It shouldn't be either or.

Viv is considered a GOAT, even his record against the Aussies who were among the best side isn't a totally dominant one. Never got to play in SA as well.

So in ODI's it's a case of picking a side for particular conditions rather than a dominant XI for all conditions.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
That doesn't mean number 4 means not taking responsibility.

After WC 2015, everyone said ABD should bat at atleast 4.

Now he is at 4, we still say he should bat at 3.
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I can't speak for other people.

Besides since this is a comparison it will contrast Ponting mainly being at 3 or opening with AB mainly batting down the order in ODIs. Wrt to this, it is clear who took responsibility and who didn't.
 
Haroon786 said:
I can't speak for other people.

Besides since this is a comparison it will contrast Ponting mainly being at 3 or opening with AB mainly batting down the order in ODIs. Wrt to this, it is clear who took responsibility and who didn't.
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It was a strategy to bat down the order albeit a wrong one. Now he has come up the order and scoring runs just as fine.

If your reasoning is that ABD is not that good a finisher considering he was batting down the order so you rate Ponting more....that's fine.

But your post makes it look like ABD hid behind others cos he was afraid.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
It was a strategy to bat down the order albeit a wrong one. Now he has come up the order and scoring runs just as fine.

If your reasoning is that ABD is not that good a finisher considering he was batting down the order so you rate Ponting more....that's fine.

But your post makes it look like ABD hid behind others cos he was afraid.
Click to expand...

Taking responsibility is not necessarily relevant to cowardice.

When you're comparing great batsmen in ODIs, you pick the one that will have more impact and at a position that enables you to impact the match the most. AB hasn't really done that til now and even now still not at the same level.
 
Haroon786 said:
Taking responsibility is not necessarily relevant to cowardice.

When you're comparing great batsmen in ODIs, you pick the one that will have more impact and at a position that enables you to impact the match the most. AB hasn't really done that til now and even now still not at the same level.
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Nah....think you are confusing all the terms.

According to you, did Dhoni take responsibility or hide down the order?

If Dhoni wasn't that good a finisher, would that change the equation as to whether he was taking responsibility or just hiding down the order?

Intention is what needs to be judged. Not the end result.

Someone not coming up the order due to not wanting to take responsibility ain't the same as hanging back cos you & the team management feel that would improve your team's chances.
 
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Ponting. de Villiers is a soft cricketer who cannot be compared to ATGs.
 
Ponting, he scores up the order which is the more crucial in ODIs for impact (preventing collapse, building innings, guiding middle and lower order). ABD is probably more talented but he scores more soft runs than Ponting. The reason for soft runs is because SAF has a great top order and AB rarely comes to bat in pressure situation. The top order does most of the hard work of setting up.
 
Comparison across eras is futile. Today is the era of flat wickets and general quality of bowlers are down.
 
Ponting did nothing in his first 2 world cups. Clicked in his 3rd one. Devilliers in his first 3 world cups has performed on par with Ponting.
 
Haroon786 said:
I can't speak for other people.

Besides since this is a comparison it will contrast Ponting mainly being at 3 or opening with AB mainly batting down the order in ODIs. Wrt to this, it is clear who took responsibility and who didn't.
Click to expand...

I dont think with Faf there at 3, AB will ever come up ahead of no.4 position.SA's lower middle order is weak and if AB comes in top3 then things will be even tougher for them as there won't be anyone who could finish off the games in the later part or stop team from having collapses.
 
Ricky Pointing - because he would actually win me crucial and pressure games, rather than bringing me to the brink and letting me down every time.
 
Ponting averaged below 40 in 3 of his 5 world cups. Devilliers averaged less than 40 only in one of his 3 world cups. Both Ponting and Devilliers average 50+ in 2 world cups despite Devilliers playing 2 less world cups. So, there goes the theory that Ponting performed better than AB in world cups. On the contrary, Devilliers has been a better world cup batsman.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Ponting averaged below 40 in 3 of his 5 world cups. Devilliers averaged less than 40 only in one of his 3 world cups. Both Ponting and Devilliers average 50+ in 2 world cups despite Devilliers playing 2 less world cups. So, there goes the theory that Ponting performed better than AB in world cups. On the contrary, Devilliers has been a better world cup batsman.
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Half the WC is spent bashing the minnows. Glad AB made hay while hitting the mighty Zimboks or the indomitable Namibians out of the ground. How many pressure/knockout games has AB won for SA?
 
Syed1 said:
Half the WC is spent bashing the minnows. Glad AB made hay while hitting the mighty Zimboks or the indomitable Namibians out of the ground. How many pressure/knockout games has AB won for SA?
Click to expand...

Odd One didn't compare averages....he was comparing consistency in WCs.

All WCs have some minnows (2015 was a mega minnow bashing fest).

If Ponting averaged less than 40 in 3 WCs, that's a valid enough point.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Ponting had a bigger heart but it remains to be seen how much does ABD's skills make up for his lack of heart.

The next 2 years will reveal a lot.

ABD though is defo the better bat. That guy can score fast even when he is uncomfortable. Just needs to come up the order. 4 is ok...3 would be even better.
Click to expand...

Is he?

Ponting played when the average score was much lower than before and wickets weren't as flat.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Ponting averaged below 40 in 3 of his 5 world cups. Devilliers averaged less than 40 only in one of his 3 world cups. Both Ponting and Devilliers average 50+ in 2 world cups despite Devilliers playing 2 less world cups. So, there goes the theory that Ponting performed better than AB in world cups. On the contrary, Devilliers has been a better world cup batsman.
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Yet Ponting always performed in the big matches when it matters. See 2003 world cup final or even the 2011 world cup final with a very weak team.
 
Convict said:
Is he?

Ponting played when the average score was much lower than before and wickets weren't as flat.
Click to expand...

And ABD towers over the rest when batting got easier.

What does ABD have to go to overcome the "he played in easier era"?

Average 80?

That guy averages 66 since 2008 at a SR of 100+.

PLUS has balanced records too in various countries.

And has a solid WC record.

Was playing an iconic knock in WC SF before rain came and spoiled it.

Not saying he is automatically better than Ponting for now but what more can be expected from ABD's overall numbers (leaving aside iconic knocks)?
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
And ABD towers over the rest when batting got easier.

What does ABD have to go to overcome the "he played in easier era"?

Average 80?

That guy averages 66 since 2008 at a SR of 100+.

PLUS has balanced records too in various countries.

And has a solid WC record.

Was playing an iconic knock in WC SF before rain came and spoiled it.

Not saying he is automatically better than Ponting for now but what more can be expected from ABD's overall numbers (leaving aside iconic knocks)?
Click to expand...

Talking about the scoring fast.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I mentioned he can score fast even he was uncomfortable.

Scored a 100 in India facing a turning ball without a clue of what's happening.
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Nah just saying that if Ponting played his whole career today his strike rate would also be around 100
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I mentioned he can score fast even he was uncomfortable.

Scored a 100 in India facing a turning ball without a clue of what's happening.
Click to expand...

That is called luck. In a swinging cape town pitch when everybody failed ,Shoaib Akhtar smashed a 16 ball 40 odd without knowing what is happening.
 
AB is no doubt the more skilled bat imo but when push comes to shove I would much rather have Punter in my corner.

Link
 
Kaiser_Soze said:
That is called luck. In a swinging cape town pitch when everybody failed ,Shoaib Akhtar smashed a 16 ball 40 odd without knowing what is happening.
Click to expand...

If a bat consistently scores fast, then its more skill than luck.

He did the same in Mohali test too. Looked clueless yet smashed runs.

Its his temperament where the jury is out.

Convict said:
Nah just saying that if Ponting played his whole career today his strike rate would also be around 100
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Ponting would have DEFO had a better SR but does that mean we can equate it?

Let's do a like to like comparison and see.

Let's see how they fared in common ICC tourneys speed wise (cos the pitches will be the same so no one gets undue advantage).

I am EXCLUDING 90s era cos Ponting was not the force back then and his SR was in 70s.

Ponting's era

1.jpg

ABD's era

2.jpg

ABD has better SR than even out and out explosive bats and sloggers while averaging the most.

This is ABD for you. :D
 
It is not always about skill . It is about the type of game one has. Some are more into building the innings and then go from there. It is not that they lack the skill to blast off. AB is the opposite. It is his fans portrayal of him being super human that is over the top. And please do me a favour , one can be reckless and get some runs on a tough pitch. That is not AB special.
 
I agree. ABD can be reckless which is his flaw.

But that doesn't take away his ability to score even when he is uncomfortable.

The only chink in ABD's armour is his ability to soak up pressure. He proves he can do that then there is nothing else for him to prove.

He ain't gonna get gun pitches facing ATG bowlers so we will never know how he fares in those situations. But he did do very well against chucking Ajmal and against Aussie pacers if that counts for something.

If you look at ABD, majority of the fans under-rate him while a small minority over-rate him so much that people go "yeah right" on them and don't take those arguments seriously.

Which is just sad.
 
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ABD has more runs per innings than anyone else present or past era.

Plus ABD came in at 22-3 in a decider game against Eng and closed out the chase by himself.

He seems to score fast regardless of whether he is building an innings or teeing off.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
If you look at ABD, majority of the fans under-rate him while a small minority over-rate him so much that people go "yeah right" on them and don't take those arguments seriously.

Which is just sad.
Click to expand...

People underrate De Villiers because of his perceived lack of character rather than questioning his talent.

I have no problems agreeing that De Villiers possesses certain skills (hand-eye coordination especially) that allow him to improvise at a level not seen in the game before. He has superlative reflexes that enhance his ability to adjust his shot two or three times while the bowler is amid delivery stride. That all is to be applauded.

It's the other stuff (particularly in test cricket) that skews people's opinion of him and other modern cricketers such as Chris Gayle, who is another monstrously talented batsman who won't ever be in the mix in a conversation about all-time greats. Same as De Villiers, which is sad.

It's the way the game has always been and we have numerous examples of talented cricketers not getting their due because of perceived selfishness about how they approached a team sport. Remembering names such as Tony Greig, Colin Croft, Kevin Pietersen et al.

You cannot expect fans to be wholly objective when judging a cricketer, and I suspect you are not being objective either and go too far the other way defending him.
 
Last Monetarist said:
People underrate De Villiers because of his perceived lack of character rather than questioning his talent.

I have no problems agreeing that De Villiers possesses certain skills (hand-eye coordination especially) that allow him to improvise at a level not seen in the game before. He has superlative reflexes that enhance his ability to adjust his shot two or three times while the bowler is amid delivery stride. That all is to be applauded.

It's the other stuff (particularly in test cricket) that skews people's opinion of him and other modern cricketers such as Chris Gayle, who is another monstrously talented batsman who won't ever be in the mix in a conversation about all-time greats. Same as De Villiers, which is sad.

It's the way the game has always been and we have numerous examples of talented cricketers not getting their due because of perceived selfishness about how they approached a team sport. Remembering names such as Tony Greig, Colin Croft, Kevin Pietersen et al.

You cannot expect fans to be wholly objective when judging a cricketer, and I suspect you are not being objective either and go too far the other way defending him.
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Pardon my lack of humility but I would like think that I am one of the very few in this forum who rate him for what he really is.

Genius talent who needs to be appreciated for his achievements and criticized for his flaws.

You called ABD a gutless coward above. That's supposed to ok cos fans cannot be expected to be wholly objective when it comes to ABD.

I can use the same yardsticks to define many ATGs...wanna see:

Lara - Useless selfish ODI bat who rarely ever scored in ODIs where it mattered (barring early 90s) and played a lot of big test innings to cover up his failures

Sachin - Another selfish bat who could pile on runs but not make it count in pressure moments

Kohli - Asian, SL bully who cannot even hack it in 2 WCs played in the easiest batting era

Ashwin - Another spin track bully who was lucky enough to be playing in Indian pitches and against weak SL to boost his stats...isn't even that good in ODIs

Dhoni - So called finisher who failed in all WC knockouts except 1 innings and has cemented his rights as a clutch bat

This is how people are rating ABD.

The only difference is very few are coming to defend him unlike the others which is sad.

Someone like Ashwin who is yet to perform outside Asia gets droves of fans defending him in tests but someone like ABD who has performed in ODIs almost every chance he got, gets downplayed on a daily basis and rarely anyone stands up for him.

Think about it.

If ABD was an Indian or Pakistani, would posters here in Pakpassion leave this lying around?
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
ABD has more runs per innings than anyone else present or past era.

Plus ABD came in at 22-3 in a decider game against Eng and closed out the chase by himself.

He seems to score fast regardless of whether he is building an innings or teeing off.
Click to expand...

The inning vs NZ in semis is another one. He wasn't taking any major risk till the 35th over and was playing camly and still managed to score at SR 130. It was the rain that reduced the game or else he was jUST about to take extra gear and score super-fast.

Post rain, he faced just 4-5 balls only although Miller made up for that.
 
I have issue with him portrayed as super human. He is basically like a freestyle footballer whose many skills can be replaced with pretty simple and effective ones. But talk about playing to the galleries. He is a showman
 
Convict said:
Yet Ponting always performed in the big matches when it matters. See 2003 world cup final or even the 2011 world cup final with a very weak team.
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No, he did not always perform in crucial World Cup matches barring that WC final inning and may be that inning against India in 2011. Ponting had zero contribution in the both 1999 and 2003 world cups as a batsman.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Nah....think you are confusing all the terms.

According to you, did Dhoni take responsibility or hide down the order?

If Dhoni wasn't that good a finisher, would that change the equation as to whether he was taking responsibility or just hiding down the order?

Intention is what needs to be judged. Not the end result.

Someone not coming up the order due to not wanting to take responsibility ain't the same as hanging back cos you & the team management feel that would improve your team's chances.
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Not talking about Dhoni, also Dhoni is regarded as arguably the greatest finisher in ODIs, alongside Bevan. AB doesn't have that sort of pedigree or at least isn't mentioned as a great finisher.

Put it this way, in a big match, I would pick Ponting over AB to come in and take the game by the scruff of the neck and put his team in a dominant position.
 
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