James
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- Jan 8, 2006
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Think we've met in the middle quite nicely there.
Don't mention it, always a pleasure.
Don't mention it, always a pleasure.
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From another perspective:
Imagine yourself as a test match bowler. Whom would you prefer bowling to? Punter or Dravid?
Discuss what? Who is better?
Dravid is on the Lord's Honours board; edges it for me.
Lords is not the be all and end all.
Even Praveen Kumar and Sir Agarkar are on Lord's board.
Btw, Ponting has scored an ODI century at Lords.
I think its a good comparison. Ponting for me though. He didn't play 75% of his career in the sub-continent.
yeah but ponting avgs 25 in india. so batting in india isn't that easy as some here are making out.
also dravid avgs 50+ away compared to ponting 45. so dravid isn't an ftb or anything. (also avgs 50+ outside asia).
Ponting slightly.
This is my top 5 batsmen out of what I've seen.
1. Tendulkar
2. Ponting
3. Lara
4. Dravid
5. Chanderpaul
Finally a sane comparison.
India's best batsman of the past 2 decades vs Australia's best of the past 2 decades. Both batting at no.3, the hardest position to bat at in cricket.
Its tough, but as someone said, Dravid must have played an incredible amount of matches in the sub-continent. Ponting was incredible at his peak. We need some stats![]()
While batting noone thinks what kind of bowling attack his team have. May be they would think what kind of tail his team have.... It very close according to me, but I vote for Dravid, because pointing had the comfort of knowing he had the worlds best bowlers at his disposal, whereas Dravid didn't have that luxury.
It's a 10000 run club.Chanderpaul? No Inzi or even Moyo?
This is one of the better comparisons threads. It very close according to me, but I vote for Dravid, because pointing had the comfort of knowing he had the worlds best bowlers at his disposal, whereas Dravid didn't have that luxury.
Discuss.
Cricinfo's XI was a biased XI based on selectors' favoritism.
How can you not include Sunnil Gavaskar as an opener is intriguing. Then they chose Lillee>Mcgrath and many selectors including Chappel were against the selection of Gilchrist.
on topic@ Ponting for me. Dravaid is a great player but ponting was a bigger match winner. Ponting batting at number 3 would take away games from you where as Dravid kept batting at his pace with a low SR.
It is interesting you say that but, When you consider what Dravid has achieved:
He has played 69 tests away from Asia and has scored 5918 runs at an average of 53.80 which is greater than his overall average of 52.31. He has 14 of his 36 hundreds away from Asia.
If you just look Dravid's performance away from home which includes his performances in Asia. He has played 94 matches, scored 7690 runs at an average of 53.03 and has 21 of his 36 hunderds away from home.
Ponting on the other hand has played 28 tests in Asia and only averages 41.97 and has scored 1889 runs. He has just 5 of his 41 hundreds in Asia. His average is almost 12 points lower in Asia.
If you just include simple calculation of Ponting away from home. 71 tests, 5360 runs, Average 45.81 (7 points lower than his overall average) and 16 hundreds.
Dravid has superior record to ponting if you look at these stats anyway. So Dravid hands down for me according to the stats above.
Ponting is a great player who becomes just a good player away from home.
Dravid > Ponting, because Ponting didn't have to bat against McGrath and Warne.
BTW, Ponting wasn't the best Aussie batter of the last two decades IMO: Tugga was.
Dravid is a big test match winner - to the maximum extent allowed by Indian bowlers. In England, Dravid waged a lone battle, had three potentially match winning knocks under difficult conditions and hostile swing bowling, but he did not get even a little bit of support from another Indian batsman or bowler. Low SR (Dravid at 41) is not such a big deal in a test match, unless you are a player like Sehwag who blazes away at run a ball.
yep chanderpaul. Just personal opinion. Grittiest batsman out there in my opinion. So many times he's been with his back on the wall bailing out his struggling team. He's pretty underrated, haven't seen many batsman bat with that sort of pressure involved.Chanderpaul? No Inzi or even Moyo?
There is big difference b/w a SR of 41 and 58.76.
41= 222 runs in a day.
58.76= 320 runs in a day.
This means you're giving your bowlers ample time to get the batsman out.
Ponting. Because he was possibly the most key cog in the most sucessful test team in history.
The guy was a monster 2003-2007!
Nuff said.
Normally I always go with the more attacking option, as it is harder to score heavily whilst also taking on the bowlers (generally, higher SR = lower average).
But for once, I'm not sure, mainly because I haven't rated Ponting as highly as some others do.
Ponting.
Can't compare a grafter with a strokemaker.
Any top player can graft like Dravid if need be - Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Inzi have all played stodgy low-risk innnings and scored centuries. KP managed it in the first innings of this match.
Even someone like Yousuf, who isn't the most technically correct, beat Viv Richards' record of runs in a calendar year when he turned himself into a grafter for that period.
Dravid vs. Kallis vs. Chanderpaul etc.- he's the best of the Graham Thorpe-type players.
Some interesting stats below....
This is the batting record of players when the following players were in the opposition team...
Ambrose, Donald, Garner, Waqar, Wasim, Imran, Mcgrath, Warne, Marshall, Hadlee, Lillee, Murali, Pollock, Thomson, Bob Willis, Trueman Arguably the best ever bowlers?
RT Ponting 58.46
IVA Richards 52.48
BC Lara 50.02
SM Gavaskar 49.14
Majid Khan 49.06
G Boycott 47.86
KD Walters 47.64
NS Sidhu 47.4
MJ Slater 47.32
A Flower 46.92
Javed Miandad 46.91
AR Border 45.76
M Azharuddin 45.71
SR Waugh 44.2
GS Chappell 43.97
SR Tendulkar 43.57
RR Sarwan 42.95
ME Trescothick 42.28
Inzamam-ul-Haq 42.01
GP Thorpe 41.62
JH Kallis 41.55
CH Lloyd 41
RA Smith 40.96
MD Crowe 40.83
R Dravid 40.75
GR Viswanath 40.71
M Amarnath 40.32
Minimum 2000 runs
(By no means is this an overall ranking of players.... but a good piece of evidence when making a call)
I have the most conclusive stat: strike rate 42.27.
42 runs per 100 balls.
42. Runs. Per. 100. Balls.
Its tough, but as someone said, Dravid must have played an incredible amount of matches in the sub-continent. Ponting was incredible at his peak. We need some stats![]()
Read this Post below and you will wonder what you have done with your opinion inside 9-10 months:
Once he is in the league of Chanderpaul, Kallis and Thorp and then you are not sure wether Ponting is better than him or not.
Where did stroke maker factor go in 2012?
@bolded part- Ponting exactly did that with higher SR.In a team with batsmen having SR of 80+(Sehwag), Tendulkar (55) etc, India would easily score 320 in a day with Dravid holding one end intact. Every one does not need to score at 60 SR in a test match - it is role based. As long as the team is balanced, a batsman with a high career average and ability to play for long durations will win more test matches for you as long as your team has bowling capable to taking 20 wickets.
yep chanderpaul. Just personal opinion. Grittiest batsman out there in my opinion. So many times he's been with his back on the wall bailing out his struggling team. He's pretty underrated, haven't seen many batsman bat with that sort of pressure involved.
Yousuf and Inzi are very good, but they don't make the top 5 in my opinion. Maybe top ten.
@bolded part- Ponting exactly did that with higher SR.
When you compare two batsmen you consider them individually..keeping everything else constant. There in no denying in Dravid's role or how great he was.. to me Ponting was a better player they way he bullied and destroyed attacks.
P.S how do know Tendulkar has a SR of 55 in Tests?
Tendulkars 55 S/r is mentioned there at cricinfo records .
@bolded part- Ponting exactly did that with higher SR.
When you compare two batsmen you consider them individually..keeping everything else constant. There in no denying in Dravid's role or how great he was.. to me Ponting was a better player they way he bullied and destroyed attacks.
P.S how do know Tendulkar has a SR of 55 in Tests?
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION] said some Indians didn't like Punters attitude and behaviour on the pitch at times that could be a reason.Ponting comfortably. It's a shame to see them neck and neck on this poll but I guess that'll happen when you have any Indian in a poll
Ponting slightly.
This is my top 5 batsmen out of what I've seen.
1. Tendulkar
2. Ponting
3. Lara
4. Dravid
5. Chanderpaul
Ponting comfortably. It's a shame to see them neck and neck on this poll but I guess that'll happen when you have any Indian in a poll
It has to be Dravid! Amazed to see the hate and bias here. This forum never ceases to amaze me when it comes to hatred and bias.
Where's the bias? Have a look at Dravid's strike rate and then compare it with Ponting's strike rate. Ponting was a dashing stroke maker who could destroy bowling attacks. And that's what seperates great players from good ones, the ability to dominate attacks.
Dravid was a super effective bat who really became a beast from 2000-2006.
But Ponting's domination and ruthlessness is a bit too hard to overcome. At one point (I think 2009), Ponting averaged like 57 with his style of play.
Ponting for me.
Ponting averaged more than 59 back in 2006.