Role of coaches in helping a captain?

[Farah Sohail]

We all know Babar is a bad captain tactically..whats even more frustrating is he keeps making similar mistakes….
Today…when Pak came out to bowl…after Shadab completed his over from yesterday..Naseem Shah came out tobowl..he was easily the best bowler yesterday, and Pak needed wickets.. Surely it must have been pre decided to give ball to Nasem..and try and take a wicket?

Pak had full day to replan..but yet again..we see that no slip fielder was placed… Pak needed wickets…yet there was no slip ..typical defensive captaincy by babar… in next over of Naseem, we do see..kohli edging and there was a a boundry..no slip again…

My concern is when..babar keeps making these mistakes..why dont our coaches..give more input to babar..and help him become a better captain? Not getting a slip fielder today was more frustrating today because..it should have been planned earlier atleast…it wasnt something tht happened..late in the game…Even coaches..can give messages to captain during the game..but this wasnt even needed here… as it should have been preplanned….what did the they do whole day yesterday after the match? No planning / strategy for today?

This is one of many instances, where babar keeps making blunders..in captaincy..yet coaches dont even make an effort to improve him?
We saw some improvements in babar’s captaincy in test series against Srilanka..so I thought probably new management is more proactive and helps babar plan and strategise better…but in ODIs ..we see same old defensive tactics by babar and no improvement in his captaincy whatsoever…

We have seperate coaches, for bowling, batting and fielding..so whats even the role of head coach? what do they even discuss in post match team meetings..if they dont even point out flaws in captaincy?

 

[aukhan]

Maybe Babar is the problem here. You can't turn a donkey into a zebra by painting it.

 

[Savak]

Wasim Akram in the Asports show has mentioned that ultimately Babar makes his own decisions and sticks by them regardless of the coaches, team managements input.

Babar has now been captaining under many different coaches at the international and domestic level, ultimately the captain makes the calls on the field. The problem is ultimately with him ie his overtly defensive safety first nature.

 

[Badboy_1]

low IQ Babar Azam

 

[Farah Sohail]

low IQ Babar Azam

That everyone knows..but what are coaches doing there?

 

[Farah Sohail]

Wasim Akram in the Asports show has mentioned that ultimately Babar makes his own decisions and sticks by them regardless of the coaches, team managements input.

Babar has now been captaining under many different coaches at the international and domestic level, ultimately the captain makes the calls on the field. The problem is ultimately with him ie his overtly defensive safety first nature.

So ..do we think that Mickey Arthur also gets bogged down/ influenced by Babar and has no control over him..or simply that he and his team of coaches dont actually point out captaincy flaws to Babar?

 

[Savak]

So ..do we think that Mickey Arthur also gets bogged down/ influenced by Babar and has no control over him..or simply that he and his team of coaches dont actually point out captaincy flaws to Babar?

I think Babar is too set in his ways and very stubborn to change. The Selectors and the PCB Chairman kept telling him to broaden his horizons and look beyond Asif Ali, Khushdil Shah for the 2022 T20 WC in Australia but Babar stubbornly stuck to his guns.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Indeed, it raises questions about the coaches' effectiveness when it comes to determining the preferable batting track, and the data analyst seems to be falling short in fulfilling their responsibilities as well.

 

[NeVerMind]

Where was the fight? Where was new "The Pakistan Way" approach that everyone in the camp was talking about?

I rather we smashed our way to 120 odd all out and make a fist of it rather than this meek surrender we all got to see.... pathetic...coach and Kuptaan are all to blame!

 

[saqib.rai]

We all know Babar is a bad captain tactically..whats even more frustrating is he keeps making similar mistakes….
Today…when Pak came out to bowl…after Shadab completed his over from yesterday..Naseem Shah came out tobowl..he was easily the best bowler yesterday, and Pak needed wickets.. Surely it must have been pre decided to give ball to Nasem..and try and take a wicket?

Pak had full day to replan..but yet again..we see that no slip fielder was placed… Pak needed wickets…yet there was no slip ..typical defensive captaincy by babar… in next over of Naseem, we do see..kohli edging and there was a a boundry..no slip again…

My concern is when..babar keeps making these mistakes..why dont our coaches..give more input to babar..and help him become a better captain? Not getting a slip fielder today was more frustrating today because..it should have been planned earlier atleast…it wasnt something tht happened..late in the game…Even coaches..can give messages to captain during the game..but this wasnt even needed here… as it should have been preplanned….what did the they do whole day yesterday after the match? No planning / strategy for today?

This is one of many instances, where babar keeps making blunders..in captaincy..yet coaches dont even make an effort to improve him?
We saw some improvements in babar’s captaincy in test series against Srilanka..so I thought probably new management is more proactive and helps babar plan and strategise better…but in ODIs ..we see same old defensive tactics by babar and no improvement in his captaincy whatsoever…

We have seperate coaches, for bowling, batting and fielding..so whats even the role of head coach? what do they even discuss in post match team meetings..if they dont even point out flaws in captaincy?

I would have bought this argument but when Babar decided to BALL first against India, majority of 'analysts' and people on these forums were criticizing him. Fair enough

On the same GROUND against Sri Lanka, when he decided to BAT first, majority of 'analysts' and people on these forums were criticizing him AGAIN.

These so called 'sports journalists' and 'analysts' we see on TV and YouTube taking rubbish about Babar would be out of work if the team wins every match. THEIR JOB IS TO CRITICIZE, MOST OF THE TIME UNNECESSARILY. What a sad job.

We need to understand that now PCB has employed several data analysts and other support staff with the team. They are the ones giving inputs which Babar is implementing on the field. So he cannot solely be responsible.

The role of the captain nowadays especially in ODI and t20 cricket is very limited. Its the people in the background making all the decisions with real time data and what not.

But criticizing them would not get you views and clicks so Babar becomes the scapegoat.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

If the captain is someone like Michael Clarke, MS Dhoni, Bmac, Fleming etc then obviously the coach doesn't have to do much in terms of tactics, but their job becomes much more proactive in guiding and even teaching the captain about tactics when it is non-tactical guys like Babar, Root, Chanderpaul, Holder etc

 

[Energy]

Setting the field and asking bowlers to bowl to the field and a plan. A skipper needs to own this as a basic element. Babar does not.

Babar sets conventional fields and the bowlers bowl wherever they want on both sides of the wicket.

Not much the coaches can do here.

 

[mominsaigol]

Setting the field and asking bowlers to bowl to the field and a plan. A skipper needs to own this as a basic element. Babar does not.

Babar sets conventional fields and the bowlers bowl wherever they want on both sides of the wicket.

Not much the coaches can do here.

It's alot more then that.

Babar is a hypocrite. He straight up threw zaman Khan under the bus stating thay zaman isn't international level, but he at the same time said shadab and nawaz are excellent bowlers , and that their performance was good, they were just wicketless.

Naseem's performance against India was good, despite being unfit and wicketless he clearly troubled Gill and should have gotten gill's wicket but that did not happen due to lame fielding.

Shadab's performance wasn't good by any means, it was like watching a ps5 game where the batters tonk on easy mode.

Not only that he doesn't take accountability for injuring his players. Something he's done multiple tines over and over. Agha being injured isn't his fault cause that's a freak accident, but shaheen, Rauf and naseem 100% babar's fault.

He also keeps and keeps playing the same winning 11, the whole point of squad rotation is to find insight and test your bench strength. Like for example India, yesterday by testing their bench strength they now know to play axar patel to strengthn their fragile lower order.

Babar does not do that, he makes forced changed and brings players in extremely pressure situations. Everyone critising Abdullah when Abdullah was brought in a semi final with zero practise prior and was told to face wallenge a guy who destroyed Indian's batting line up lol.

The whole winning 11 gets exposed because deapite their being glaring problems like fakhar's form, Shadab's atrocious bowling, as long as the team wins via hand holding from other players, their good to go.

 

[mominsaigol]

It's alot more then that.

Babar is a hypocrite. He straight up threw zaman Khan under the bus stating thay zaman isn't international level, but he at the same time said shadab and nawaz are excellent bowlers , and that their performance was good, they were just wicketless.

Naseem's performance against India was good, despite being unfit and wicketless he clearly troubled Gill and should have gotten gill's wicket but that did not happen due to lame fielding.

Shadab's performance wasn't good by any means, it was like watching a ps5 game where the batters tonk on easy mode.

Not only that he doesn't take accountability for injuring his players. Something he's done multiple tines over and over. Agha being injured isn't his fault cause that's a freak accident, but shaheen, Rauf and naseem 100% babar's fault.

He also keeps and keeps playing the same winning 11, the whole point of squad rotation is to find insight and test your bench strength. Like for example India, yesterday by testing their bench strength they now know to play axar patel to strengthn their fragile lower order.

Babar does not do that, he makes forced changed and brings players in extremely pressure situations. Everyone critising Abdullah when Abdullah was brought in a semi final with zero practise prior and was told to face wallenge a guy who destroyed Indian's batting line up lol.

The whole winning 11 gets exposed because deapite their being glaring problems like fakhar's form, Shadab's atrocious bowling, as long as the team wins via hand holding from other players, their good to go.

Theirs also the fact he plays everyone out of position so that he can hog his milestones slots.

Rizwan can play at no 4 because rizwan was complaining like a Crybaby but saud needs to play out of position? What about zaman Khan that he threw under the bus. Zaman is a death bowler and middle overs bowlers, why he is opening the bowling? Yes zaman didn't bowl well but why are you bashing zaman and saying he's not international level but praising your 2 worst bowlers as the international match winners?

Imagine playing fakhar and sain ayub at 3 and 4 just so he can hog the opening to get his milestone against 2nd string teams.

Babar needs to stop letting his nonsense ranking get into his head and putting himself to kholi caliber. He needs to acknowledge that he's simply an accumulator and shpuld focus on backing the team with runs and anchoring while genuine strikers play freely and don't need to worry about wickets falling on the other hand.

 

[Markhor]

We all know Babar is a bad captain tactically..whats even more frustrating is he keeps making similar mistakes….
Today…when Pak came out to bowl…after Shadab completed his over from yesterday..Naseem Shah came out tobowl..he was easily the best bowler yesterday, and Pak needed wickets.. Surely it must have been pre decided to give ball to Nasem..and try and take a wicket?

Pak had full day to replan..but yet again..we see that no slip fielder was placed… Pak needed wickets…yet there was no slip ..typical defensive captaincy by babar… in next over of Naseem, we do see..kohli edging and there was a a boundry..no slip again…

My concern is when..babar keeps making these mistakes..why dont our coaches..give more input to babar..and help him become a better captain? Not getting a slip fielder today was more frustrating today because..it should have been planned earlier atleast…it wasnt something tht happened..late in the game…Even coaches..can give messages to captain during the game..but this wasnt even needed here… as it should have been preplanned….what did the they do whole day yesterday after the match? No planning / strategy for today?

This is one of many instances, where babar keeps making blunders..in captaincy..yet coaches dont even make an effort to improve him?
We saw some improvements in babar’s captaincy in test series against Srilanka..so I thought probably new management is more proactive and helps babar plan and strategise better…but in ODIs ..we see same old defensive tactics by babar and no improvement in his captaincy whatsoever…

We have seperate coaches, for bowling, batting and fielding..so whats even the role of head coach? what do they even discuss in post match team meetings..if they dont even point out flaws in captaincy?

My own speculation but after the humiliating home season last year when we failed to win a single Test in 8 matches - the coaches had a clear mandate to revive our Test fortunes. Babar perhaps was more receptive to changing his methods in Tests.

And in fairness he captained well in the SL Tests.

However, rightly or wrongly, Babar is perceived as a better white-ball captain given his record (I still think he's poor) and the coaches were happy to leave him to his own devices. I hope they're more hands on after this Asia Cup.

Ultimately Babar's limited tactical awareness and inability to read conditions even after 4 years of captaincy is a shocking indictment of the Pakistani cricket system he's come through. We don't groom captains at junior and domestic level.

It can be easily rectified. Pair young captains with experienced vice captains in QEA Trophy. Call up 20-30 of the most promising young cricketers to the NCA - and rope in someone like Ricky Ponting or Mark Taylor to spend a couple of days with them discussing field placings and how to read conditions. Make the investment !

 

[Major]

Coaches cant help with captiancy.
Captaincy is like how a football manager performs. The coahsing staff cant ask you to set a field or make the following bowling changes.

Misbah was fed up with Babar, even Wasim Akram was fed up with Babar and had him thrown out KK. The guy has no idea how to captain

 

[hassan918]

Coaches cant help with captiancy.
Captaincy is like how a football manager performs. The coahsing staff cant ask you to set a field or make the following bowling changes.

Misbah was fed up with Babar, even Wasim Akram was fed up with Babar and had him thrown out KK. The guy has no idea how to captain

Babar should be more aggressive with his captaincy but at KK I think it was more about his strike rate and intent as an opener rather than his captaincy.

 

[ArabKnight]

We all know Babar is a bad captain tactically..whats even more frustrating is he keeps making similar mistakes….
Today…when Pak came out to bowl…after Shadab completed his over from yesterday..Naseem Shah came out tobowl..he was easily the best bowler yesterday, and Pak needed wickets.. Surely it must have been pre decided to give ball to Nasem..and try and take a wicket?

Pak had full day to replan..but yet again..we see that no slip fielder was placed… Pak needed wickets…yet there was no slip ..typical defensive captaincy by babar… in next over of Naseem, we do see..kohli edging and there was a a boundry..no slip again…

My concern is when..babar keeps making these mistakes..why dont our coaches..give more input to babar..and help him become a better captain? Not getting a slip fielder today was more frustrating today because..it should have been planned earlier atleast…it wasnt something tht happened..late in the game…Even coaches..can give messages to captain during the game..but this wasnt even needed here… as it should have been preplanned….what did the they do whole day yesterday after the match? No planning / strategy for today?

This is one of many instances, where babar keeps making blunders..in captaincy..yet coaches dont even make an effort to improve him?
We saw some improvements in babar’s captaincy in test series against Srilanka..so I thought probably new management is more proactive and helps babar plan and strategise better…but in ODIs ..we see same old defensive tactics by babar and no improvement in his captaincy whatsoever…

We have seperate coaches, for bowling, batting and fielding..so whats even the role of head coach? what do they even discuss in post match team meetings..if they dont even point out flaws in captaincy?

Delusional post.

You can’t teach a chicken to fly. Doing the same thing over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

A captain is a leader, you can’t turn someone into a leader, these are qualities that come in nature.

Pakistan needs to crash out of the World Cup for fools to understand that he shouldn’t have any captaining role.

Campaign has commenced…

Operation XXIII: The Removal

 

[Major]

Babar should be more aggressive with his captaincy but at KK I think it was more about his strike rate and intent as an opener rather than his captaincy.

to be honest Babar is an aggressive captain. Infact he is one of the most aggressive captaincy.

The term aggressive is misused alot on Pakpassion.

People think Babar was not an aggressive captain, they are wrong. In the last 20 years he has been one of the most aggressive captains we have ever had. The whole issue with his captaincy is his aggressiveness.

I am not being sarcastic. Basically, aggressive captaincy is when you start to attack the opposition, and use your main assets upfront. When you are trying to take wickets and not defend the runs. What Babar does is, by having his 3 main pacers bolw the first 15-17 overs, he goes full aggressive mode and looks to get wicket even on the flattest surface. The fact that he will make Shaheen bowl the first over no matter what is aggressiveness.

What Babar needs to be is be defensive. He needs to know how to utilize his assets. Aggressive where required, and defensive where required. It is not mandatory to bowl the first over by Shaheen if the pitch offers nothing. You can always bowl a spinner in the opening spell to increase the margin between balls and runs. The reason why we lost to Sri Lanka that day was because we were aggressive and not defensive. Had babar bowled Nawaz in the first 10 overs, the margin would had been greater.

Babar needs to stop being aggresive all the time, and same is the issue with Shadab aswell. Rizwan is more insane and tends to see what the situation requires.

I fear that Shaheen may also end up being an aggressive captain.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

i dont think our players are willing to listen their seniors or coaches they always try to prioritize their own opinions.

delay in announcing the World Cup squad seems to be one of this reason.

 

[Syed1]

People think just because Babar is well on his way to being an ATG, he will naturally be a good captain.


As u19 captain Pakistan had their worst ever performance in an u19 WC under him. That should have been a sign of things to come. Just because someone is a great batsman does not mean they naturally possess the ingredients to be a great captain. Best example of that is Tendulkar.


He uses the same cookie cutter plans in every match and does not adjust based on match situation. His captaincy in the middle overs is absolutely atrocious with no desire to attack or even contain the run scoring.

 

[FearlessRoar]

In my opinion, coaches in cricket support the captain by offering strategic advice, refining players skills, and fostering teamwork.In practical terms, coaches might help captains by studying video footage of opponents, identifying key players to target or strategies to counter. For example, they could advise on placing fielders strategically based on a batters weaknesses or suggest specific bowling variations against certain opponents.

 

[Vikram1989]

In my opinion, coaches in cricket support the captain by offering strategic advice, refining players skills, and fostering teamwork.In practical terms, coaches might help captains by studying video footage of opponents, identifying key players to target or strategies to counter. For example, they could advise on placing fielders strategically based on a batters weaknesses or suggest specific bowling variations against certain opponents.

As an international player, even player's are supposed to work on the strategic plans. Remember Aswin's obsession about smith and he watched smith's batting for 6 months.Problem with pak is that their players are devoid of any plans and just hoping for a wickets in longer formats and odi's.

 

[sweep_shot]

A good team can win under any coach. Australia won their 6th World title under Andrew McDonald (a guy who is quite new to coaching).

In international cricket, head coach can't do much. A team's success depends on how good and motivated the players are.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

coach's job is to provide plans to the captain but the responsibility remains on the captain to implement them properly.

So I think role of the coach is quite minimal in the actual game.