Russia invades Ukraine

[cpleigh]

That's from Russian telegram... Ukraine are 20m from the city centre...

I thinks it's highly likely he's legged it

 

[James]

<b>Ukraine counter-offensive: Russian forces retreat as Ukraine takes key towns</b>

Russian forces have withdrawn from key eastern towns, as a rapid Ukrainian counter-attack makes further gains.

Ukrainian officials said troops entered Kupiansk, a vital eastern supply hub for Russian forces, on Saturday.

Russia's defence ministry then said its troops have retreated from nearby Izyum to allow them "to regroup".

The ministry also confirmed the withdrawal of troops from a third key town, Balaklyia, in order to "bolster efforts" on the Donetsk front.

The Ukrainian advances - if held - would be the most significant since Russia withdrew from areas around Kyiv in April.

In his nightly video address on Saturday, President Volodymyr Zelensky claimed that Ukraine had now liberated 2,000 sq km (700 sq miles) from Russia since beginning a renewed counter-offensive earlier this month.

His claim would suggest that half of that area has been recaptured in the last 48 hours alone - as it istwice the area of territory Mr Zelensky said had been liberated when he spoke on Thursday evening.

The announcement by Russia that its troops had withdrawn from Izyum is also significant, as it was a major military hub for Moscow.

"A three-day operation was carried out on the drawdown and organised transfer of the Izyum-Balakliya group of troops to the territory of the Donetsk People's Republic," the Russian statement said.

"In order to prevent damage to the Russian troops, a powerful fire defeat was inflicted on the enemy."

Shortly afterwards, the chief administrator of Russian-controlled parts of the Kharkiv region recommended that its residents evacuate to Russia "to save lives", according to the Russian state-run Tass news agency.

And the governor of the neighbouring Belgorod region, in Russia, said mobile catering, heating, and medical assistance would be available to people queuing to cross the border.

The advances will be seen as a sign that Ukraine's army has the capacity to retake Russian-occupied territory, crucial as Kyiv continues to ask its hard-pressed Western allies for military support.

Earlier, UK defence officials said Ukraine had advanced 50km (31 miles) into previously Russian-held territory.

"Russian forces were likely taken by surprise," the UK Ministry of Defence said.

"The sector was only lightly held and Ukrainian units have captured or surrounded several towns."

Ukraine launched its counter-offensive in the east earlier this week, while international attention was focused on an anticipated advance near the southern city of Kherson.

Analysts believe Russia redirected some of its most seasoned troops to defend the city.

But as well as gaining ground in the east, Ukraine is also making gains in the south, an official said.

Nataliya Gumenyuk, a spokesperson for the Ukrainian army's southern command, said they had advanced "between two and several dozens of kilometres" along that front.

But Russian forces fighting on the southern front are said to have dug into defensive positions, and Ukraine's troops have faced heavy resistance since the offensive began.

And in Kharkiv itself, one person was killed and several homes damaged on Saturday as Russian rocket fire hit the city, according to local officials.

Ukrainian officials shared a picture on social media that appeared to show Ukrainian troops holding up the country's flag in front of Kupiansk city hall, with the Russian flag at their feet.

On Friday President Zelensky said his forces were "gradually taking control of new settlements" and "returning the Ukrainian flag and protection for all our people".

He also said that national police units were returning to liberated settlements and urged civilians to report suspected Russian war crimes to them.

His call followed a report from the UN's monitoring team in Ukraine which said they had "documented a range of violations against prisoners of war" by Moscow's forces.

The report also accused Ukrainian troops of "cases of torture and ill-treatment of prisoners of war".

Elsewhere, German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock arrived in Kyiv on Saturday in a surprise visit, which she said was to demonstrate Berlin's commitment to Ukraine's defence.

"I have travelled to Kyiv today to show that they can continue to rely on us," Ms Baerbock said.

And on Friday, Mr Zelensky awarded the Order of Merit, Ukraine's highest honour, to Haluk Bayraktar - the head of Turkish drone manufacturer Bayraktar.

The company's TB2 combat drone, which can carry four missiles, has become a symbol of Ukrainian resistance.

While Ankara has sought to play the role of intermediary between Kyiv and Moscow since the conflict broke out, Mr Bayraktar has refused to supply Russia with arms and told CNN in August "we support Ukraine, support its sovereignty, its resistance for its independence".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62860774

 

[SalimBhai]

seems like Russia on the back foot.

 

[Junaids]

So, to sum up…,

Izyum and Kupyansk were the two logistics hubs for the resupply and relief of Russian forces in Donbas. With both lost, the Russians are going to lose every inch of ground they have taken in 2022.

Russia has lost 45% of its soldiers, 80% of its modern weaponry and 99% of its cruise missiles for literally nothing.

The 2022 war has turned into a textbook case of a rogue nation trying to steal another country’s land, but succeeding only in disarming itself.

 

[Junaids]

Goodness me [MENTION=145891]cpleigh[/MENTION] was right.

Ukraine really has taken Donetsk Airport. It’s a total Russian collapse now.

All they need to do now is turn back to Melitopol and they can retake Crimea too!

 

[Junaids]

Ukraine has hacked in to every channel of TV in Crimea:

President Zelensky advising the Crimean people that the Russians have surrendered to Ukraine at Kharkiv and in Donbas and that this is Crimea’s opportunity to peaceably rejoin Ukraine.

 

[Junaids]

Russia has lost 20% of its soldiers and 25% of its heavy weaponry in 48 hours.

 

[bones]

Russia has lost 20% of its soldiers and 25% of its heavy weaponry in 48 hours.

At least cpleigh says somewhat believable things. You on the other hand should be editor of the Kyiv Independent. The Russians withdrew from most of these settlements, in fact the official statements are the Russians knew that they didn't have enough infantry so rather than risk encirclement and certain death they retreated and will live to fight another day. This means that the Russians didn't fight so didn't lose many troops, definitely not 20%. Seems like you pluck numbers out of thin air.

 

[Junaids]

Interesting to see the Ukrainian government has published new conditions today for the end of hostilities:

1. Russia to exit all Ukrainian territory, including Crimea.

2. International War Crimes Tribunal to put on trial any alleged Russian or Ukrainian offenders.

3. Russia to pay reparations for all damage to civilian infrastructure.

 

[mazkhan]

Russia will collapse as a nation state this is a massive humiliating defeat

Even isis , al quida in Iraq and taliban didn't fold this quick and took on the Americans nato in brutal operations and urban warfare

 

[Junaids]

Russia will collapse as a nation state this is a massive humiliating defeat

Even isis , al quida in Iraq and taliban didn't fold this quick and took on the Americans nato in brutal operations and urban warfare

Russia is not a nation state.

It still retains its Asian Empire, which it now needs to be relieved of.

 

[sweep_shot]

Russia has lost 20% of its soldiers and 25% of its heavy weaponry in 48 hours.

How can a country lose 20% soldier in 2 days? The figure doesn't seem accurate. Any source?

 

[bones]

How can a country lose 20% soldier in 2 days? The figure doesn't seem accurate. Any source?

Like everything else he says, his source is his rear end. 20% is 40,000. Does anyone buy his nonsense?

 

[Junaids]

How can a country lose 20% soldier in 2 days? The figure doesn't seem accurate. Any source?

They haven’t been killed. They have deserted or been taken prisoner.

 

[Junaids]

As the Russian Army runs away at breakneck pace, leaving all their heavy weapons behind, Russia has now overtaken the USA as the main donor of weapons to the Ukrainian Army.

Let me guess, having completed the deNazification of the Ukrainians they are now withdrawing in triumph, as planned.

 

[James]

If the reports are true, at the moment for Russia doesn’t seem like it’s looking particularly great ?

 

[Robert]

As the Russian Army runs away at breakneck pace, leaving all their heavy weapons behind, Russia has now overtaken the USA as the main donor of weapons to the Ukrainian Army.

Let me guess, having completed the deNazification of the Ukrainians they are now withdrawing in triumph, as planned.

In one incident a Russki APC blew a couple of tyres. The crew went to a scrapyard to see if they could scrounge some replacements. They returned to find all the other tyres let down. Epic trolling by the Ukrainians. Why didn’t the crew guard the vehicle?

 

[bones]

If the reports are true, at the moment for Russia doesn’t seem like it’s looking particularly great ?

The situation is not good on the eastern front for Russia and the only reason is manpower. The calls by Russians for at least partial mobilisation are growing. They need to double their forces because in this region they were outnumbered by around 1:10. Overall they are outnumbered 1:3.

 

[bones]

They haven’t been killed. They have deserted or been taken prisoner.

20% is 40,000 like I said. If they had 40,000 soldiers in this region they would have fought instead of retreating.

Let's say for arguments sake they did suffer these losses provide source. Why do you never provide a source?

 

[Robert]

Russia is not a nation state.

It still retains its Asian Empire, which it now needs to be relieved of.

Which the Western embargo may yet achieve, if Putin runs short of money and troops.

Siberia, Ural, Tatarstan, Karelia, Chechnya are not part of Russia, but Putin reversed the federalisation programme of Yeltsin.

Could the federation be about to split up? Could Putin stop it, now his army is revealed to be rubbish? He’s basically a mob boss with installed capos running the smaller nations. The thought of several nuclear armed states splitting off is not comfortable.

 

[bones]

A Russian blogger just said there is no appetite for mobilisation in Russia right now. Even though there are some who follow on a daily basis want all out war declared, the majority don't care.

Apparently the senior Russian military men are starting to complain more and more about the restrained approach and want to be given permission by Putin to start taking out civilian infrastructure like electric stations, Internet, water, railroad etc. This makes sense to me, after the attitude and behaviour of western Ukrainians and their leaders. I personally think that they should have taken all of it out on the day the negotiations ceased in April in Istanbul.

 

[bones]

Which the Western embargo may yet achieve, if Putin runs short of money and troops.

Siberia, Ural, Tatarstan, Karelia, Chechnya are not part of Russia, but Putin reversed the federalisation programme of Yeltsin.

Could the federation be about to split up? Could Putin stop it, now his army is revealed to be rubbish? He’s basically a mob boss with installed capos running the smaller nations. The thought of several nuclear armed states splitting off is not comfortable.

They hold a huge portion of the country despite using a force of 200k. For anyone who knows history, they know that this is a good army. The recent retreats in the east just emphasise how effective they have been with 200k but need more.

Did you bother to read the this article? They are not running out of weapons or ammunition anytime soon. They need more men to hold just a big front line.

https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/return-industrial-warfare/

 

[Manager101]

Problem with some fictionally trained brains/people by mainstream media is that they think any kind retreat is a sign of defeat but history suggests retreat is actually a kind of tactical method for long-term benefit in War.

In short, winning battles in not that important but targeting War victory is imperative.

 

[bones]

Problem with some fictionally trained brains/people by mainstream media is that they think any kind retreat is a sign of defeat but history suggests retreat is actually a kind of tactical method for long-term benefit in War.

In short, winning battles in not that important but targeting War victory is imperative.

Very very good point. Who better to use as an example that the Soviets themselves in historical conflicts. You'd think that this was the first conflict the Russians were involved with just by reading some of the propaganda.

 

[Robert]

Problem with some fictionally trained brains/people by mainstream media is that they think any kind retreat is a sign of defeat but history suggests retreat is actually a kind of tactical method for long-term benefit in War.

In short, winning battles in not that important but targeting War victory is imperative.

Well, in a moving campaign like the American Civil War, or Montgomery vs. Rommel in North Africa, where you had to find the enemy and fight him on the good ground.

But you don't go to the enormous trouble of taking a city and then let yourself get pushed back out of it. Morale will go to pot.

 

[Robert]

understandingwar.org says the Russians have lost 3000 square kilometres in three days in the North. This is not a controlled withdrawal - it is a rout.

 

[Pakpak]

Mobilisation isnt going to be popular in Russia. A lot of people in Putins circle aren't for it. But I feel that is the only option the Russians have. They haven't had a big effect on destroying supplies from the West so Ukraine will be looking to push on.

The entire war depends on the new few weeks I reckon and if Ukraine looks like it will push on more then the West will stomach the disaster October month coming up.

 

[Junaids]

The Russians are in a state of total collapse.

Now is the time for the west to massively escalate support for Ukraine, to ensure a rapid end to the war and regime change in Moscow to ensure energy supplies over winter.

But we also need to see Russia dismembered now, so that the gas and oil fields are outside the nation of Russia and can be used to fund reparations for Ukraine.

The reason why the post-1945 settlement endured but the post-1918 did not was because Germany was dismembered.

And those lessons need to be pursued - the oil and gas fields need to be outside the future borders of Russia.

 

[Junaids]

Funny Darth Putin tweet caption for video of women hugging the Ukrainian soldiers:

“Crowds of Ukrainians who wanted to join Russia are terrified that the people who've been shelling them & committing genocide for 8 years have pushed their glorious Russian liberators out of their territory.”

 

[Robert]

The Russians are in a state of total collapse.

I guess that if you poorly train, poorly lead, poorly equip and poorly supply your troops, and they are faced with an implacable enemy who will not quit, eventually they will just give it up as a bad job.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The Russians are in a state of total collapse.

Now is the time for the west to massively escalate support for Ukraine, to ensure a rapid end to the war and regime change in Moscow to ensure energy supplies over winter.

But we also need to see Russia dismembered now, so that the gas and oil fields are outside the nation of Russia and can be used to fund reparations for Ukraine.

The reason why the post-1945 settlement endured but the post-1918 did not was because Germany was dismembered.

And those lessons need to be pursued - the oil and gas fields need to be outside the future borders of Russia.

You’ve been this broken record for months lol

Russia only moved out of a few areas . It’s been 6 months Ukrainians haven’t taken any significant land .

Nato fangirls are so dumb , Russia will Never lose the east . Tens of Thousands of Nazis have wiped out .

Come back when they take crimea or maybe King Charles will ride on his horse to capture it

 

[James]

<b>Kharkiv offensive: Ukrainian army says it has tripled retaken area</b>

Ukraine's military says its forces have retaken over 3,000 sq km (1,158 sq miles) during a rapid counter-offensive in eastern Ukraine.

The remarkable advance, if confirmed, means Kyiv's forces have tripled their stated gains in little over 48 hours.

On Thursday evening, President Zelensky put the figure at 1,000 sq km, and then 2,000 sq km on Saturday evening.

The BBC cannot verify the Ukrainian figures, and journalists have been denied access to the frontlines.

On Saturday, the eastern counter-attack saw Ukrainian troops enter the vital Russian-held supply towns of Izyum and Kupiansk.

But UK defence officials have warned that fighting has continued outside those towns.

And officials in Kyiv said Ukrainian forces were still fighting to gain control of a number of settlements around Izyum.

Russia's defence ministry confirmed its forces' retreat from Izyum itself and Kupiansk, which it said would allow its forces "to regroup" in territory held by Moscow-backed separatists.

The Russian ministry also confirmed the withdrawal of troops from a third key town, Balaklyia, in order to "bolster efforts" on the Donetsk front. Ukrainian forces entered the town on Friday.

At the same time, the head of the Russia-installed administration in the Kharkiv region recommended that its people evacuate to Russia "to save lives".

Unverified footage on social media appeared to show long queues of traffic building up at border crossings.

The governor of the Belgorod border region in Russia, Vyacheslav Gladkov, said "thousands" of people had crossed into the country.

Mr Gladkov said on Saturday that mobile catering, heating, and medical assistance would be available to people entering Russia.

The pace of the counter-attack has caught the Russians off guard, and Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov - a staunch supporter of President Vladimir Putin - appeared to question the Russian retreat.

In a message posted to Telegram, Mr Kadyrov said if there was not a change in Russian fortunes, he would be forced to question the country's leadership to explain the situation.

But Russians still hold around a fifth of the country, and few imagine a swift end to the war. And Mr Kadyrov himself insisted "Russia will win" and "Nato weapons" would be "crushed".

The Ukrainian advances - if held - would be the most significant frontline changes since Russia withdrew from areas around Kyiv in April.

Kupiansk served as Russia's main eastern supply hub and the loss of Izyum - which Moscow spent over a month trying to take at the beginning of the war - would be seen as a major humiliation for President Vladimir Putin.

According to one military expert, the advance marks the first time since World War Two that whole Russian units have been lost.

The gains will also be seen as a sign that Ukraine's army has the capacity to retake occupied territory - crucial as Kyiv continues to ask hard-pressed Western allies for military support.

Ukraine's Foreign Minister, Dmytro Kuleba, said the latest developments showed its forces could end the war faster with more Western weapons.

On Saturday, UK defence officials suggested that much of the retaken area had been only "lightly held" by the Russians.

Ukraine launched its counter-offensive in the east earlier this week, while international attention was focused on an anticipated advance near the southern city of Kherson.

Analysts believe Russia redirected some of its most seasoned troops to defend the city.
But as well as gaining ground in the east, Ukraine is also making gains in the south, an official said.

Nataliya Gumenyuk, a spokesperson for the Ukrainian army's southern command, said they had advanced "between two and several dozens of kilometres" along that front.

But Russian forces fighting on the southern front are said to have dug into defensive positions, and Ukraine's troops have faced heavy resistance since the offensive began.

And in Kharkiv itself, one person was killed and several homes damaged on Saturday as Russian rocket fire hit the city, according to local officials.

Elsewhere, Ukraine's energy regulator, Energoatom, says the last reactor at the Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant has been shut down, and is not generating electricity.

The reactor had been generating energy for the plant itself for three days - it was shut down when external power was restored.

The Ukrainian operator said that to prevent an emergency, it was essential that shelling of the power lines connecting the station to the national grid be halted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62867560

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] please also use neutral or Russian sources , bbc Is not taken seriously

 

[James]

[MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] please also use neutral or Russian sources , bbc Is not taken seriously

PP posts news from whichever sources that we agree upon as a team to use, if you dispute the information in an article then you can reply to the post with any proposed corrections.

 

[Junaids]

I’m guessing that Putin is staying away from windows currently. And in Russia closed ones can be as dangerous as open ones.

 

[Junaids]

Reports of huge traffic jams at the border between Russian-occupied Donbas and Russia.

Ukrainian Russians who have newly issued Russian passports are attempting to escape to Russia before they can be arrested and charged with collaboration offences as the Ukrainians liberate their towns and villages.

But the Russians are refusing to let them in to Russia. Presumably out of fear that if they do there will be no Russian supporters left in Donbas and no legitimacy for Russia’s continued presence there.

There’s presumably going to be similar Do It Yourself Ethnic Cleansing in Crimea, with the large chunk of the population there which is pro-Russia fleeing to Russia.

Sad. But when you betray your country to an invading enemy, you’d better hope that invading enemy doesn’t lose.

Chickens are starting to come home to roost for those Ukrainian Russians who betrayed Ukraine.

 

[Junaids]

Another tweet that is comically accurate:

“My fellow Russians

My 3 day war in Ukraine has run 6 months.

We lost the battles of Kyiv & Kharkiv.

The Moskva was sunk.

50,000 Russian soldiers have died.

Our army in Kherson is surrounded.

Our army at Izyum is in full retreat

Next phase of this war will be even more glorious!”

 

[Robert]

Reports of huge traffic jams at the border between Russian-occupied Donbas and Russia.

Ukrainian Russians who have newly issued Russian passports are attempting to escape to Russia before they can be arrested and charged with collaboration offences as the Ukrainians liberate their towns and villages.

But the Russians are refusing to let them in to Russia. Presumably out of fear that if they do there will be no Russian supporters left in Donbas and no legitimacy for Russia’s continued presence there.

There’s presumably going to be similar Do It Yourself Ethnic Cleansing in Crimea, with the large chunk of the population there which is pro-Russia fleeing to Russia.

Sad. But when you betray your country to an invading enemy, you’d better hope that invading enemy doesn’t lose.

Chickens are starting to come home to roost for those Ukrainian Russians who betrayed Ukraine.

Strewth, I didn't think of that. It's a sadness, but I wouldn't blame the Ukrainian patriots for arresting fifth columnists. So these poor people have been given Russian passports but aren't actually Russian citizens - that's cruel.

 

[Manager101]

Sources can be authentic or bogus but atleast link should be posted.

 

[James]

Sources can be authentic or bogus but atleast link should be posted.

Agree, there is a preference to use links.

 

[Junaids]

Strewth, I didn't think of that. It's a sadness, but I wouldn't blame the Ukrainian patriots for arresting fifth columnists. So these poor people have been given Russian passports but aren't actually Russian citizens - that's cruel.

From what I’m reading, the Russian passports issued in parts of occupied Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine do not give full Russian citizenship.

In Ukraine they make males liable for compulsory military service for Russia, but do not qualify the bearer to apply for a Russian home loan.

The problem is that Russia needs its puppets in Donbas and Crimea as their pretext for “protecting” them.

These people have denounced their Ukrainian neighbours, collaborated with invaders and in many cases have helped themselves to their neighbours’ homes and property. And they have become the pretext for Russia’s invasion.

They are going to be as unpopular as the collaborators in 1940 Vichy France, 1962 Algeria and 1971 East Pakistan. It’s going to be a human tragedy.

 

[Robert]

They are going to be as unpopular as the collaborators in 1940 Vichy France, 1962 Algeria and 1971 East Pakistan. It’s going to be a human tragedy.

And we know what happened to them.

 

[Technics 1210]

You got to hand it to the NATO bots, resorting to wars over 100 years old in an attempt to prove a fruitless and insecure position.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The Russians are in a state of total collapse.

Now is the time for the west to massively escalate support for Ukraine, to ensure a rapid end to the war and regime change in Moscow to ensure energy supplies over winter.

But we also need to see Russia dismembered now, so that the gas and oil fields are outside the nation of Russia and can be used to fund reparations for Ukraine.

The reason why the post-1945 settlement endured but the post-1918 did not was because Germany was dismembered.

And those lessons need to be pursued - the oil and gas fields need to be outside the future borders of Russia.

Have you went of the deep end? What you are suggesting has 0% chance of occurring

 

[sweep_shot]

The Russians are in a state of total collapse.

Now is the time for the west to massively escalate support for Ukraine, to ensure a rapid end to the war and regime change in Moscow to ensure energy supplies over winter.

But we also need to see Russia dismembered now, so that the gas and oil fields are outside the nation of Russia and can be used to fund reparations for Ukraine.

The reason why the post-1945 settlement endured but the post-1918 did not was because Germany was dismembered.

And those lessons need to be pursued - the oil and gas fields need to be outside the future borders of Russia.

LOL. Dismembering Russia? This is not video game.

Russia is a nuclear nation and Putin is sharper than all western leaders. Russia is also allied with China and Iran.

 

[bones]

So news is filtering through and we are starting to understand the general position.

Ukraine still have huge numbers of soldiers the original 1 Russian for 3.5 Ukrainian is down closer to 1:2. The Russians have seen Ukraine amass 4 groups for counter offensives. Three of these have occurred, 2 were unsuccessful in kherson and near Energodar. We of course know about the successful one near Izyum.

The Ukrainians also have a massive force, the biggest one yet around Ugledar in the south. The Russians don't have enough reserves without mobilisation protect both Izyum and the south. They decided and that the south is of far more importance so amassed reserves there.

The Ukrainians were expecting some resistance around Izyum but the reason they didn't get any is simply because the Russians decided to withdraw most of their units around 4/5 days ago. The Ukrainians had over 40k soldiers in this area compared to between 5000 and 8000 Russians.

As I said the other day the only people who know the Russian plans are the Russians and the only people who know the Ukrainian plans are Ukrainians or NATO commanders. But based on reliable sources from both sides most of what I said stacks up.

 

[SalimBhai]

Seems like Russia on back foot. Not out yet but on the back foot.

 

[Robert]

[MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] please also use neutral or Russian sources , bbc Is not taken seriously

Extraordinary post.

Putin murdered hundreds of journalists. Five oligarchs who questioned the war have recently fallen out of high windows. Even using the word “war” risks a prison sentence.

Yet you take “Russian sources” more seriously than the BBC, which exists in a free society and still has a high degree of autonomy from government.

 

[Junaids]

Have you went of the deep end? What you are suggesting has 0% chance of occurring

Look at a map from 1830 of the following Empires:

Habsburg Empire - all that is left now is Austria.
Ottoman Empire - all that is left now is Turkey.
British Empire - all that is left now is the UK.
French Empire - all that is left now is France.
Russian Empire - it's still intact now, from Europe to Central Asia to the Pacific Ocean.

The 1918 peace settlement went wrong not just because Germany had to pay reparations, but because Germany was left intact.

In 1945 we had learned from that - when you get an aggressive empire like the German Empire - or Russian Empire now - it needs to be dismembered.

Unfortunately for Russia, the oil and gas fields aren't actually in European Russia - they are in its colonised land in Siberia and Central Asia, and they will be the property of the newly independent nations.

Russia is already poor (same GDP as Australia with six times the population).

But once Russia loses its oil and gas fields to newly independent Asian countries, Russia will be Congo-level poor instead of Malaysia-level poor like it currently is.

Putin has basically condemned Russia to be stripped of its Empire. And what is left is going to be left as Russia is going to be dirt poor.

 

[Junaids]

LOL. Dismembering Russia? This is not video game.

Russia is a nuclear nation and Putin is sharper than all western leaders. Russia is also allied with China and Iran.

Apartheid South Africa was a nuclear-armed state.

Britain and France were nuclear-armed - they still had to give up their Empires.

Nobody is talking about dismembering Russia proper - European Russia. I am saying that they now forfeit their Empire - the colonised land in Asia, in Siberia and Central Asia and the Far East.

Putin has put the Russian Empire up for independence now.

 

[Junaids]

I find it astonishing to see how some people of Asian background perceive Russia and Ukraine.

The reality is that both were part of the Soviet Union and became independent with its dissolution.

Ukraine had nuclear weapons but gave them up. It spent two decades as a corrupt post-Soviet basket case but has now sought to clean itself up and join the EU.

Russia had nuclear weapons but kept them. It has spent three decades as a corrupt post-Soviet basket case. It continues to retain its Asian Empire, and treats its Asian citizens as inferior cannon fodder.

In the heads of some Asians, Russia is a brave anti-colonial hero while Ukraine is a racist European nation.

The reality could not be further from that - Russia is the equivalent of if Britain still owned India and Pakistan, and used its people as cannon fodder for its Army.

 

[sweep_shot]

Extraordinary post.

Putin murdered hundreds of journalists. Five oligarchs who questioned the war have recently fallen out of high windows. Even using the word “war” risks a prison sentence.

Yet you take “Russian sources” more seriously than the BBC, which exists in a free society and still has a high degree of autonomy from government.

BBC is filled with propaganda.

The autonomy you are talking about is an illusion. They still have to follow a "script".

Can folks in western media say what they want? I don't think so. We all know about cancel culture.

 

[SalimBhai]

Any British journalist falling of windows?

 

[sweep_shot]

Any British journalist falling of windows?

People have died or been harmed in west when they tried to mess with the deep state. These are all documented.

If you stop relying on BBC/CNN and do your own independent reading, you can be more well-informed.

It is hypocritical for west to blame Russia for this and that. Have they seen themselves on the mirror? How many countries have they invaded/looted/destroyed?

Western logic:

America drops bomb = Good.
Russia does an operation = Bad.

 

[Junaids]

People have died or been harmed in west when they tried to mess with the deep state. These are all documented.

If you stop relying on BBC/CNN and do your own independent reading, you can be more well-informed.

It is hypocritical for west to blame Russia for this and that. Have they seen themselves on the mirror? How many countries have they invaded/looted/destroyed?

Western logic:

America drops bomb = Good.
Russia does an operation = Bad.

Yes that is my logic.

The USA targets evil murderers like Saddam Hussein or Bin Laden or the Taliban, who are now safely ensconced in Hell where they belong.

Russia attacks democracies like Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine.

By the way, the BBC charter assures its editorial neutrality as does Ofcom as the regulator.

And what are the only two broadcasters to be stripped of their UK broadcasting licences due to bias?

Russia Today and Fox News.

What a surprise!

 

[Junaids]

People have died or been harmed in west when they tried to mess with the deep state. These are all documented.

If you stop relying on BBC/CNN and do your own independent reading, you can be more well-informed.

It is hypocritical for west to blame Russia for this and that. Have they seen themselves on the mirror? How many countries have they invaded/looted/destroyed?

Western logic:

America drops bomb = Good.
Russia does an operation = Bad.

I’m 53 years old. The only countries that the UK has attacked in my lifetime richly deserved it.

You drone on and on about imperialism by people who died centuries ago. The closest thing that you have to a case is the Falklands, where the descendants of Spanish and Italian colonists want to help themselves to land 300 km from their borders. Even though in the last referendum, 99.8% of Falklands electors chose British sovereignty.

 

[Robert]

BBC is filled with propaganda.

The autonomy you are talking about is an illusion. They still have to follow a "script".

Can folks in western media say what they want? I don't think so. We all know about cancel culture.

“Cancel culture” in Russia means getting murdered by the state. Two hundred journalists have disappeared since Putin rose to power.

The BBC can get leaned on by the government of the day - for instance they did not show footage of the 200,000 pro-EU marches, as this was awkward for the Tory government.

But they will still ask awkward questions of the Ministers - see Andrew Neil’s eviscerating interview of Boris Johnson. Nothing happened to Andrew Neil.

Now Tory Ministers avoid appearing on BBC altogether, preferring tame client journalists at GB News.

Channel 4 news is about to lose its Crown corporation status, chopped up into private hands, so Tory donor cronies can influence the news. But for now they still criticise the government.

Had a Russian version of Andrew Neil treated Putin in that way, he would have fallen under a train in short order.

I find it extraordinary that I have to explain the difference between news in a free society and news in a dictatorship to someone living in a free society.

 

[Junaids]

Just as Crimean TV was hacked on Saturday, now all digital services in St Petersburg have been hacked and replaced with footage of Russian war crimes in Ukraine.

Putin really needs to stay away from windows and cigarettes at the moment.

 

[Junaids]

Former Kharkiv security chief Roman Dudin has been arrested for treason (by Ukraine).

It’s only four days ago that [MENTION=135003]bones[/MENTION] was writing about Russia holding separatist referenda in occupied Ukraine.

Now collaborators are starting to see what a dangerous choice they make when they get into bed with Russia.

 

[Robert]

Yes that is my logic.

The USA targets evil murderers like Saddam Hussein or Bin Laden or the Taliban, who are now safely ensconced in Hell where they belong.

Russia attacks democracies like Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine.

By the way, the BBC charter assures its editorial neutrality as does Ofcom as the regulator.

And what are the only two broadcasters to be stripped of their UK broadcasting licences due to bias?

Russia Today and Fox News.

What a surprise!

Let us be careful. USA has also overthrown elected democracies and installed despots to keep the oil flowing - see Mossadeq in Iran in 1953.

While the removal of Saddam was in the face of it no bad thing, the resulting chaos and infrastructure collapse killed a million civilians and allowed the rise of ISIL. I remember talking to a MoD civil servant in the late nineties. “Rob, Saddam is a stabilising factor in the ME, a Sunni leader surrounded by Shi’a, and terror elements cannot operate in his country”. The Clinton doctrine of food for oil when Saddam behaved, and cruise missile strikes when he didn’t, was keeping him under control.

On the other hand, the US contribution to NATO almost certainly prevented the USSR from overrunning much of Western Europe and for that I am grateful. Our freedom depended on the US taxpayer.

 

[cpleigh]

So news is filtering through and we are starting to understand the general position.

Ukraine still have huge numbers of soldiers the original 1 Russian for 3.5 Ukrainian is down closer to 1:2. The Russians have seen Ukraine amass 4 groups for counter offensives. Three of these have occurred, 2 were unsuccessful in kherson and near Energodar. We of course know about the successful one near Izyum.

The Ukrainians also have a massive force, the biggest one yet around Ugledar in the south. The Russians don't have enough reserves without mobilisation protect both Izyum and the south. They decided and that the south is of far more importance so amassed reserves there.

The Ukrainians were expecting some resistance around Izyum but the reason they didn't get any is simply because the Russians decided to withdraw most of their units around 4/5 days ago. The Ukrainians had over 40k soldiers in this area compared to between 5000 and 8000 Russians.

As I said the other day the only people who know the Russian plans are the Russians and the only people who know the Ukrainian plans are Ukrainians or NATO commanders. But based on reliable sources from both sides most of what I said stacks up.

Yeah it's all going to plan.... Rumours now Kherson is collapsing.

Lovely to see Russian propogandirsts on state TV calling for an end to the war and that they can't defeat ukraine

 

[sweep_shot]

Yes that is my logic.

The USA targets evil murderers like Saddam Hussein or Bin Laden or the Taliban, who are now safely ensconced in Hell where they belong.

Russia attacks democracies like Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine.

By the way, the BBC charter assures its editorial neutrality as does Ofcom as the regulator.

And what are the only two broadcasters to be stripped of their UK broadcasting licences due to bias?

Russia Today and Fox News.

What a surprise!

If Saddam Hussain was an evil murderer, what about George Bush or Tony Blair? They were many times worse.

Good on Russia for doing operations in western puppet states.

Can you imagine an enemy country creating bases and instilling puppets near United States? Would USA be okay with it?

Russia has the right to self-defense.

 

[bones]

Yeah it's all going to plan.... Rumours now Kherson is collapsing.

Lovely to see Russian propogandirsts on state TV calling for an end to the war and that they can't defeat ukraine

The kherson front line hasn't moved an inch this is according to all western and Russian maps. So please stop lying.

As for the calls to end the war please provide sources because every single reliable Russian analyst is calling for mobilisation.

 

[Robert]

Good on Russia for doing operations in western puppet states.

This is the most disturbing thing you have ever posted.

The Ukrainian people want freedom, democracy, liberty and prosperity, so have chosen to lean West toward the EU. They are not “puppets”. They have agency.

You want them under the domination of a Tsarist despot instead.

Please think about what you have just posted.

 

[Robert]

France 24 says Ukraine has captured a Russian “critical logistics hub” - I presume an ammo / rations / fuel dump - at Izyum.

 

[sweep_shot]

This is the most disturbing thing you have ever posted.

The Ukrainian people want freedom, democracy, liberty and prosperity, so have chosen to lean West toward the EU. They are not “puppets”. They have agency.

You want them under the domination of a Tsarist despot instead.

Please think about what you have just posted.

I think you took my comment out of context.

Junaids was saying that American invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were justified while Russian operations weren't justified.

I also wrote this:

"Can you imagine an enemy country creating bases and instilling puppets near United States? Would USA be okay with it?

Russia has the right to self-defense."

Russia made some blunders but it can be said this operation was about self-defense and security.

 

[Robert]

Russia made some blunders but it can be said this operation was about self-defense and security.

It cannot. Listen to Putin. Ukraine is Russia, he said. This is about re-establishing the Russian Empire. He seized Crimea shortly after the Ukrainian people made their wishes clear in the Euromaidan. They want to be part of the EU, not the Eurasian Economic Union. Putin cannot have that.

 

[Junaids]

If Saddam Hussain was an evil murderer, what about George Bush or Tony Blair? They were many times worse.

Good on Russia for doing operations in western puppet states.

Can you imagine an enemy country creating bases and instilling puppets near United States? Would USA be okay with it?

Russia has the right to self-defense.

No offence, but it’s not appropriate for Canada to host you with your beliefs. You are very lucky that you are going under the radar.

Why do you live in a society that you hate? You chose to live in a NATO country.

 

[bones]

No offence, but it’s not appropriate for Canada to host you with your beliefs. You are very lucky that you are going under the radar.

Why do you live in a society that you hate? You chose to live in a NATO country.

Just because someone lives somewhere doesn't mean they agree with the foreign policy. I live in the UK, but I detest the foreign policy our government has implemented for decades. Invading Iraq on the false basis of WMD for example - they lot of them should be in prison for life, yet Blair walks about freely. Killing Gaddafi - they should be in prison for life on that crime as well.

 

[bones]

This is the most disturbing thing you have ever posted.

The Ukrainian people want freedom, democracy, liberty and prosperity, so have chosen to lean West toward the EU. They are not “puppets”. They have agency.

You want them under the domination of a Tsarist despot instead.

Please think about what you have just posted.

Why don't you think about what you post? Western Ukranians want nothing to do with Russia. But ethnic Russians, those in the Donbas, Kherson, Crimea etc want nothing to do with Ukraine. That's what this war is about - it's about the South and South East of the country - not the north or western part which the Russians have no interest in.

 

[sweep_shot]

No offence, but it’s not appropriate for Canada to host you with your beliefs. You are very lucky that you are going under the radar.

Why do you live in a society that you hate? You chose to live in a NATO country.

Hate? Where did you see see word "hate"?

This operation is a self-defense operation. I was pointing that out.

 

[Robert]

No offence, but it’s not appropriate for Canada to host you with your beliefs. You are very lucky that you are going under the radar.

Why do you live in a society that you hate? You chose to live in a NATO country.

Canada will tolerate his views because Canada is a liberal democracy.

Now, if he lived in Russia and expressed dissent…. he would disappear.

This is why I keep posting here - to try to show disaffected people how much better off they are in the West, where their disaffection is tolerated.

 

[sweep_shot]

No offence, but it’s not appropriate for Canada to host you with your beliefs. You are very lucky that you are going under the radar.

Why do you live in a society that you hate? You chose to live in a NATO country.

Who are you to tell me that Canada shouldn't host me? Are you a citizen of Canada? Is Canada your family's private property?

Know your boundary.

I was criticizing American/British invasions. Where did Canada come from? Don't get too excited before reading the whole thing.

If you call out Russian attacks while you support American invasions, you are stupid and a hypocrite.

 

[Robert]

Hate? Where did you see see word "hate"?

This operation is a self-defense operation. I was pointing that out.

You are repeating the lie of a despot.

 

[Junaids]

I think you took my comment out of context.

Junaids was saying that American invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were justified while Russian operations weren't justified.

I also wrote this:

"Can you imagine an enemy country creating bases and instilling puppets near United States? Would USA be okay with it?

Russia has the right to self-defense."

Russia made some blunders but it can be said this operation was about self-defense and security.

I did not support the invasion of Iraq, although I am glad that Saddam was hanged by his own people.

The invasion of Afghanistan was not just right, it was far too late. Pigs like the Taliban must never, ever be allowed to destroy the lives of girls and women, and they and their enablers need to be removed from power. And yes, I am including their ISI enablers.

I do not support any negotiation or settlement with monsters like the Taliban. Like with ISIS, they have forfeited any rights at all, and so do the people who deal with them and prop them up.

 

[Junaids]

Hate? Where did you see see word "hate"?

This operation is a self-defense operation. I was pointing that out.

Self-defence?

When did Ukraine attack Russia?

And, as we already knew when the ethnic Russian Zelensky was elected President, Ukrainian Russians generally love Ukraine and hate the Russian government. The “protecting ethnic Russians from Nazis” nonsense only works on brainwashed Russians in Russia.

 

[sweep_shot]

Just because someone lives somewhere doesn't mean they agree with the foreign policy. I live in the UK, but I detest the foreign policy our government has implemented for decades. Invading Iraq on the false basis of WMD for example - they lot of them should be in prison for life, yet Blair walks about freely. Killing Gaddafi - they should be in prison for life on that crime as well.

I agree.

Just because one lives in a country doesn't mean he needs to support everything the country does.

Foreign policies of west have been disasters. They need to reduce interference. I don't think they will like it if other countries were interfering in their matters.

 

[bones]

Self-defence?

When did Ukraine attack Russia?

And, as we already knew when the ethnic Russian Zelensky was elected President, Ukrainian Russians generally love Ukraine and hate the Russian government. The “protecting ethnic Russians from Nazis” nonsense only works on brainwashed Russians in Russia.

Is that why most of the people in the South and South East welcomed the Russian forces with open arms?

Let's admit facts shall we? The ethnic Russians are oppressed and have been for a long time and they want to join Russia or split from Ukraine. The Ukrainians won't allow this because of the geography - they risk being landlocked and the south east is rich in natural resources.

 

[sweep_shot]

Self-defence?

When did Ukraine attack Russia?

And, as we already knew when the ethnic Russian Zelensky was elected President, Ukrainian Russians generally love Ukraine and hate the Russian government. The “protecting ethnic Russians from Nazis” nonsense only works on brainwashed Russians in Russia.

Please see this video:

I think it shows the rationality behind Putin's decision.

 

[Robert]

I did not support the invasion of Iraq, although I am glad that Saddam was hanged by his own people.

The invasion of Afghanistan was not just right, it was far too late. Pigs like the Taliban must never, ever be allowed to destroy the lives of girls and women, and they and their enablers need to be removed from power. And yes, I am including their ISI enablers.

I do not support any negotiation or settlement with monsters like the Taliban. Like with ISIS, they have forfeited any rights at all, and so do the people who deal with them and prop them up.

It was horrific to see Trump negotiate directly with the Taliban in Doha, while cutting out the Afghan government.