Russia invades Ukraine

[James]

British media: Nearly 500 Ukrainian families left to live on the streets in the UK after refugee sponsors kicked them out of their houses.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-refugees-left-homeless-in-england-data-shows

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/17/homes-for-ukraine-refugees-being-left-homeless-uk

(This is not a majority of cases) but people shouldn’t have signed up for this scheme if they were not prepared to take it all the way and commit in full.

 

[bones]

I thought Ukraine would already have been flattened and fully absorbed. The Ukrainians have fought with a lot of heart. Russia may be in control of things now but overall they have undershot vis-a-vis the bombast and chest beating espoused by Putinists.

People really haven't got a clue about the situation. Russia are fighting Europe's largest army. They are fighting an army that has had 8 years to fortify their positions. They're fighting a ****ry that is geographically huge. I really don't understand where this thinking that Russia should have swept Ukraine aside in a fortnight or less comes from.

 

[James]

People really haven't got a clue about the situation. Russia are fighting Europe's largest army. They are fighting an army that has had 8 years to fortify their positions. They're fighting a ****ry that is geographically huge. I really don't understand where this thinking that Russia should have swept Ukraine aside in a fortnight or less comes from.

Because of the hype and propaganda around Russia & how much Putin has talked them up over the years. In this context they have been quite mediocre.

 

[bones]

Because of the hype and propaganda around Russia & how much Putin has talked them up over the years. In this context they have been quite mediocre.

If anyone sits back and looks at this objectively and using conflicts throughout history. Russia have done well. Just look at conflicts throughout history, the number of troops and the area involved and you'll get an idea of how Russia are doing.

 

[James]

If anyone sits back and looks at this objectively and using conflicts throughout history. Russia have done well. Just look at conflicts throughout history, the number of troops and the area involved and you'll get an idea of how Russia are doing.

I’m not disputing that, and I’m not too deeply interested either way to be honest. You will know more about the strategic intricacies of this stuff than I will.

My comment was on the inaccuracy of the triumphalist propaganda that has often come from within Russia. They have reasonable military strength but I don’t think after this conflict that they are feared any longer.

 

[Robert]

People really haven't got a clue about the situation. Russia are fighting Europe's largest army. They are fighting an army that has had 8 years to fortify their positions. They're fighting a country that is geographically huge. I really don't understand where this thinking that Russia should have swept Ukraine aside in a fortnight or less comes from.

NATO forces would roll a country of similar capabilities in a few days. It's called competence. Good training. Air superiority achieved. Vehicles well maintained. Supply chains and logistics that works. Accurate intel. Encrypted comms. Procurement that is not corrupt.

It's actually quite shocking to me how badly the Russian military has performed.

 

[bones]

I’m not disputing that, and I’m not too deeply interested either way to be honest. You will know more about the strategic intricacies of this stuff than I will.

My comment was on the inaccuracy of the triumphalist propaganda that has often come from within Russia. They have reasonable military strength but I don’t think after this conflict that they are feared any longer.

That's how propaganda works. They make you think a certain way.

The Russians haven't been perfect, but given they used only 190-200k soldiers and haven't issued a mobilisation order once yet Ukraine has gone through their 6th wave, it kind of tells you how well they are doing and how poorly Ukraine are doing.

 

[bones]

NATO forces would roll a country of similar capabilities in a few days. It's called competence. Good training. Air superiority achieved. Vehicles well maintained. Supply chains and logistics that works. Accurate intel. Encrypted comms. Procurement that is not corrupt.

It's actually quite shocking to me how badly the Russian military has performed.

Yes the same NATO that took 20 years and failed militarily and politically in Afghanistan? The same NATO that bombed Yugoslavia for 70+ days indiscriminately?

Answer a question honestly. If the Russians are doing so badly, why are they not mobilising, why aren't they begging for aid? Why are the Ukranians pleading for all sorts of weapons? Clearly they're outmatched right? Why have the Ukranians gone through their 6th official wave of mobilisation?

Here is how people like you explain your illogical views.

1. Say Russia aims to do X by Y date without any solid basis.
2. Russia failed to do X by Y date if at all.
3. Claim Russia is failing/losing because of point 2.
4. Repeat 1,2 & 3.

 

[bones]

A leaked document from the Ukranian Foreign Minister to the Polish FM stated all men aged between 18-60 must be returned to Ukraine. If this is true and there's no reason not to believe it, it kind of tells you how desperate the situation is for Ukraine.

But somehow Robert will still turn this around and say Russia are doing terribly. For a terrible army they're certainly getting Ukraine to reach out all over to mobilise.

 

[Robert]

A leaked document from the Ukranian Foreign Minister to the Polish FM stated all men aged between 18-60 must be returned to Ukraine. If this is true and there's no reason not to believe it, it kind of tells you how desperate the situation is for Ukraine.

But somehow Robert will still turn this around and say Russia are doing terribly. For a terrible army they're certainly getting Ukraine to reach out all over to mobilise.

It tells us they are engaged in a war for national survival and all men of fighting age are being conscripted, like the British did in WW2.

Where did I say they were terrible? I said they made serious errors through lack of preparation in the early stages, but are correcting those errors and now make slow progress.

 

[Robert]

Yes the same NATO that took 20 years and failed militarily and politically in Afghanistan? The same NATO that bombed Yugoslavia for 70+ days indiscriminately?

Answer a question honestly. If the Russians are doing so badly, why are they not mobilising, why aren't they begging for aid? Why are the Ukranians pleading for all sorts of weapons? Clearly they're outmatched right? Why have the Ukranians gone through their 6th official wave of mobilisation?

Here is how people like you explain your illogical views.

1. Say Russia aims to do X by Y date without any solid basis.
2. Russia failed to do X by Y date if at all.
3. Claim Russia is failing/losing because of point 2.
4. Repeat 1,2 & 3.

You're not comparing like with like. Your first instance was the ISAF peacekeeping and nation-building mission instructed by the UN General Assembly. The second was the KFOR attempt to halt a genocide, also instructed by the UN General Assembly. Both missions strove to minimise civilian casualties using smart munitions, so your use of "indiscriminately" is inaccurate. Indiscriminate bombing is of iron bombs over a city, as in Putin's intervention in Syria.

If you want an example of how to ruin an industrialised country's military very fast and replace its government, look at Iraq in 2003. Bad idea to do it, but it shows what an superpower military can do if well-organised.

 

[cpleigh]

A leaked document from the Ukranian Foreign Minister to the Polish FM stated all men aged between 18-60 must be returned to Ukraine. If this is true and there's no reason not to believe it, it kind of tells you how desperate the situation is for Ukraine.

But somehow Robert will still turn this around and say Russia are doing terribly. For a terrible army they're certainly getting Ukraine to reach out all over to mobilise.

Strange, i read a report yesterday how young men in Luhansk and Donbas are being abducted, drugged and sent to the front with decades old equipment by Russia.

If Ukraine are desperate... whats that make Russia??

 

[Technics 1210]

Has Zelensky been nominated for the Noble Peace prize by fascist liberalists yet?

 

[bones]

Strange, i read a report yesterday how young men in Luhansk and Donbas are being abducted, drugged and sent to the front with decades old equipment by Russia.

If Ukraine are desperate... whats that make Russia??

Source?

 

[Technics 1210]

Just remember, it took NATO over 20 years to bail from Afghanistan, all this of NATO winning wars in days/weeks is nothing but bluff and bluster.

 

[Technics 1210]

I’m not disputing that, and I’m not too deeply interested either way to be honest. You will know more about the strategic intricacies of this stuff than I will.

My comment was on the inaccuracy of the triumphalist propaganda that has often come from within Russia. They have reasonable military strength but I don’t think after this conflict that they are feared any longer.

I think its the opposite. Russia has proven that NATO/West are basically political bullies and would never go toe to toe with a nuclear nation. This was further proven when NATO dropped its pants when refusing to invoke a no-fly zone over Ukraine.

On top of this Russia has set a precedent on circumventing Western economic sanctions, and the East are make their own moves financially because Russia has proven that there's no need to be bullied or controlled by the USD - life goes on.

All this talk about Russian military losses, NATO could wipe the floor with Russia (why hasn't it yet?), Western economy is sound - all are propaganda sound bites from MSM and serve just a smokescreen for what's really going on - the living standards in the West are imploding, Western ideologies crumbling, and an economic crash that'll make 2008 crisis look like a soft landing - is just around the corner.

 

[James]

<b>Ukraine war: Boris Johnson travels to Kyiv to meet Volodymyr Zelensky</b>

Boris Johnson has announced a military training programme for Ukrainian forces he said could "change the equation" of the war.

The prime minister met President Volodymyr Zelensky during a surprise visit to the nation's capital Kyiv.

Downing Street said the UK-led scheme would have the potential to train up to 10,000 soldiers every 120 days.

Mr Zelensky welcomed Mr Johnson to Kyiv, describing the PM as his country's "great friend".

This is the prime minister's second visit to Ukraine since the Russian invasion in February.

At a joint press conference, Mr Johnson said his visit was intended to send a clear and simple message that the UK is with the Ukrainian people.

He said: "As Ukrainian soldiers fire UK missiles in defence of your nation's sovereignty, they do so also in defence of the very freedoms we take for granted.

"That is why I have offered President Zelensky a major new military training programme that could change the equation of this war - harnessing that most powerful of forces, the Ukrainian determination to win.

"Two months on from my last visit, the Ukrainian grit, determination and resilience is stronger than ever, and I know that unbreakable resolve will long outlive the vain ambitions of President Putin."

Downing Street said the programme would train Ukraine's military using British expertise, allowing to them to "accelerate their deployment, rebuild their forces and scale-up their resistance".

Soldiers would learn "battle winning skills for the front line, as well as basic medical training, cyber-security and counter explosive tactics".

The government added international partners would also be invited to host the programme.

If the offer is accepted by Mr Zelensky there would be discussions about the size of the training operation, which is expected to take place outside of Ukraine.

The previous Operation Orbital saw the UK train more than 22,000 Ukrainian personnel from 2015 up until the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

No 10 said the leaders also discussed how the UK could "play a pivotal role in ending the blockade of grain".

Mr Johnson announced his visit by tweeting a picture of himself with the Ukrainian president with the message:

"Mr President, Volodymyr. It is good to be in Kyiv again."

Mr Zelensky's Telegram account posted a message saying:

"Many days of this war have proved that Great Britain's support for Ukraine is firm and resolute.

"Glad to see our country's great friend Boris Johnson in Kyiv again."

The prime minister had been due to appear at a conference held by a group of his Tory MPs in Doncaster but cancelled the visit to travel to the Ukrainian capital instead.

Leader of the group of MPs, Jake Berry, told the BBC that it was "not a snub" that the PM pulled out of the Northern Research Group conference.

He said: "He is prime minister of our United Kingdom. Things happen that mean that plans have to change."

Mr Johnson's trip comes after visits to Ukraine by European leaders including French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz.

Following their trip, the European Commission has backed Ukraine's bid to be given candidacy status to join the EU - bringing it one step closer to joining the bloc.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61842137

 

[Robert]

Johnson trying to make himself look statesmanly by standing ext to Zelenskyy again.

Sadly it works.

 

[the Great Khan]

Unfortunately Ukraine has lost this war. They lost it the day they lost air superiority. Most of what you hear on the MSM is just rubbish.

Russia has their land bridge with Crimea. The Donbas is gone bar the shouting. Soon Putin had to decide whether to take Odessa or not. The Ukrainian armed forces have been decimated. They haven't been a cohesive fighting force for over a month or two. They have no artillery. No airforce. No special forces left but for a scattered few. But Ukraine is a vast land and it will take time to rebuild supply points logistics etc. If he takes Odessa it's all done for good.

All thisntalk of Russia rolling into Ukraine and finishing things in a week was nonsense. Their airforce was gone in a week but it takes time to eliminate a well trained army..also Russian tactics initially seemed puzzling to the uninitiated..the initial attack on Kiev was a feint..a ruthless feint but one nonetheless. There were nearly 60k Ukrainian troops ready for a massive assault on the donbass. Aonthe Russians used their light tactical units to invade from the north fully in the knowledge they would face casualties but they were mostly conscripts and light infantry..they still did their job by buttoning up the Ukrainians. And forcing a movement of forces..thisnallowed the forces from the south to move up. Once the south east was done the northern force withdrew and was replaced by better trained troops and better equipment.

The Russians are moving in heavier weaponry now like the SMERCH..they practically rule the skies..in 100 days they have essentially ripped apart the east and in another 100 days will cut the Ukraine into half..I suspect the Europeans have accepted this and will soon negotiate a ceasefire with Western Ukraine becoming a defacto polish colony and the east Russian.

 

[James]

Johnson trying to make himself look statesmanly by standing ext to Zelenskyy again.

Sadly it works.

VZ has explicitly deemed BoJo to be his closest ally. Johnson is a very clever politician.

 

[Robert]

VZ has explicitly deemed BoJo to be his closest ally. Johnson is a very clever politician.

He’s astute. He gets to play Churchill in Ukraine, fighting The New Hitler.

Then he engineers a fight with the ECHR over refugees, just before two critical by-elections.

 

[bones]

Most of what you hear on the MSM is just rubbish.

I suspect the Europeans have accepted this and will soon negotiate a ceasefire with Western Ukraine becoming a defacto polish colony and the east Russian.

All of your post is correct and the comment about the MSM is so telling isn't it. People, including administrators here continue to post blatent lies from the BBC, CNN etc here as if it's the gospel truth. The sad part is believe these MSM sources and don't even bother to do any research.

You still have posters here who think the Kiev feint was a defeat lol.

As for your point about a ceasefire, I'm not so sure we are there yet, these European puppets have invested so much into this conflict that their political careers are on the line. They're probably looking for a face saving way out and right now a ceasefire isn't an option. They have no one but themselves to blame, they are the ones who kept poking the Bear.

 

[bones]

VZ has explicitly deemed BoJo to be his closest ally. Johnson is a very clever politician.

Many people around the world - including me, feel that Boris Johnson was the one who told Zelensky back in March not to accept any of the concessions during the Istanbul talks.

 

[bones]

He’s astute. He gets to play Churchill in Ukraine, fighting The New Hitler.

Then he engineers a fight with the ECHR over refugees, just before two critical by-elections.

I'm afraid none of this matters when you consider the cost of living crisis. Just yesterday when I went to get some groceries I was shocked by how much my final bill had become. Most of last year I spent around £60-£70 for my weekly groceries - right now it's up over £90. Milk arund has gone from £1.50 to £1.99 in my local supermarket.

Whatever we think of Johnson, him and his leadership team won't survive unless they do something about the cost of living which he has contributed massively towards with these sanctions on Russian commodities.

 

[James]

I'm afraid none of this matters when you consider the cost of living crisis. Just yesterday when I went to get some groceries I was shocked by how much my final bill had become. Most of last year I spent around £60-£70 for my weekly groceries - right now it's up over £90. Milk arund has gone from £1.50 to £1.99 in my local supermarket.

Whatever we think of Johnson, him and his leadership team won't survive unless they do something about the cost of living which he has contributed massively towards with these sanctions on Russian commodities.

Yes, they are throwing money at it to “offset” the costs but not managing the actual costs.

They need to do something more robust and longer term.

Massive decrease to fuel duty could be one.

 

[the Great Khan]

All of your post is correct and the comment about the MSM is so telling isn't it. People, including administrators here continue to post blatent lies from the BBC, CNN etc here as if it's the gospel truth. The sad part is believe these MSM sources and don't even bother to do any research.

You still have posters here who think the Kiev feint was a defeat lol.

As for your point about a ceasefire, I'm not so sure we are there yet, these European puppets have invested so much into this conflict that their political careers are on the line. They're probably looking for a face saving way out and right now a ceasefire isn't an option. They have no one but themselves to blame, they are the ones who kept poking the Bear.

Yes indeed.

What's also telling is looking at the narrative itself. Where did Russia say they wanted to remove the Kiev regime? Knowhere. Its actually counter productive. It is in Russias interest to ensure the Kiev gov doesn't fall. They can't govern Ukraine and aren't interested in it.

This is a good analysis of the situation which I thinknthe lemmings on this forum should read:

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/ukraine-war-when-youre-in-a-hole-stop-digging

ultimately NATO will lose this war and its usefulness will be up for debate..what's the point of NATO when it can't prevent a war like this? The whole point was to prevent war in Europe. It has now failed twice to do so..

 

[bones]

This is a good analysis of the situation which I thinknthe lemmings on this forum should read:

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/ukraine-war-when-youre-in-a-hole-stop-digging

Yes good article, your link references an even more damning and informative article about the economic situation:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/are-sanctions-making-russia-richer

 

[Gilly]

Yes indeed.

What's also telling is looking at the narrative itself. Where did Russia say they wanted to remove the Kiev regime? Knowhere. Its actually counter productive. It is in Russias interest to ensure the Kiev gov doesn't fall. They can't govern Ukraine and aren't interested in it.

This is a good analysis of the situation which I thinknthe lemmings on this forum should read:

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/ukraine-war-when-youre-in-a-hole-stop-digging

ultimately NATO will lose this war and its usefulness will be up for debate..what's the point of NATO when it can't prevent a war like this? The whole point was to prevent war in Europe. It has now failed twice to do so..

Its interesting that NATO will lose this war yet not one NATO soldier has lost his life and Putin has lost around 20,000+ soldiers. I wont mention the hardware that Putin has lost.

 

[mazkhan]

This is what nato wanted to trap russia into ukraine so it depletes itself military via hardware personel and money .

It favours nato they have created another afghanistan for russia.

They have supplied heavy weapons something the taliban never had or high level military training hence why nato casualties were low.

Another thing is nato has superior airforce aircraft and precision capabilities plus intelligence gathering on the battlefield something the junkyard russian military doesn't posses since their doctrine is built on outdated ww2 tactics warfare and not modern warfare .
They can't fight urban warfares so rely on ww2 tactic of levelling cities even in this case russia uses artillery since their airforce and precision weapons suck.

If russia had a superior airforce like nato and precision and intelligence via the air like nato aircraft have this war would have ended long ago

 

[Technics 1210]

Poor ickle sheeple.

They just do not get it.

It is in the interests of Russia to prolong this war for as long as possible.

The longer the war, the higher the cost of energy/resource, and the more Russia will profit.

Even a 5 year old can see this!

Remember, NATO forces spent 20 years in Afghanistan, why didn’t NATO end the war in the ME in weeks? PETRODOLLAR! West waged war in Iraq, twice, and for a better part of 3 decades!

War is an economy.

 

[Robert]

Yes indeed.

What's also telling is looking at the narrative itself. Where did Russia say they wanted to remove the Kiev regime? Knowhere. Its actually counter productive. It is in Russias interest to ensure the Kiev gov doesn't fall. They can't govern Ukraine and aren't interested in it.

This is a good analysis of the situation which I thinknthe lemmings on this forum should read:

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/ukraine-war-when-youre-in-a-hole-stop-digging

ultimately NATO will lose this war and its usefulness will be up for debate..what's the point of NATO when it can't prevent a war like this? The whole point was to prevent war in Europe. It has now failed twice to do so..

Eh? NATO aren't engaged because Ukraine isn't a NATO member. Surely you must know this.

If anything, the Alliance will be strengthened as Sweden and Finland join and Germany triples her defence spend.

 

[bones]

If russia had a superior airforce like nato and precision and intelligence via the air like nato aircraft have this war would have ended long ago

You are the prime example of what we were discussing a few posts earlier. Someone who has limited knowledge on the subject feeding on western MSM.

Russia is fighting a well trained and we'll fortified defender using civilian infrastructure for military purposes.

If you read independent analysis you will see just how the war is actually going.

 

[bones]

Eh? NATO aren't engaged because Ukraine isn't a NATO member. Surely you must know this.

If anything, the Alliance will be strengthened as Sweden and Finland join and Germany triples her defence spend.

But NATO countries have been training Ukrainian forces, providing huge numbers of small arms, military aid, military intelligence and now more heavy armor. NATO are deeply involved in this.

NATO had a chance at direct involvement, the western public were demanding it earlier with the no-fly zone. They decided not to, I wonder why...

Turkey don't want those Scandinavian countries in NATO. Erdogan was clear on this. So where is this strength and unity?

 

[Reddy]

British media: Nearly 500 Ukrainian families left to live on the streets in the UK after refugee sponsors kicked them out of their houses.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-refugees-left-homeless-in-england-data-shows

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/17/homes-for-ukraine-refugees-being-left-homeless-uk

From hotel to jail.

Ukrainian refugees in Bulgaria were brought to a new place of residence. Hotels on the Black Sea coast were urged to release them for tourists with money.

Instead of hotels, now Ukrainians will live in such cozy cabins fenced with barbed wire. Video of the new jail type accommodation:

https://t.me/intelslava/31381

 

[mazkhan]

Bones Your completely deluded no one is denying that the ukranian military is not well trained and has proper troops , ukraine has no airforce and modern warfare is won by air power russian aircraft and precision munitions don't cut it hence why they can't bomb the ukranianians with precision out of the war hence relying on overwhelming seige tactics reminiscent of ww2 using artillery and fighting trench warfare.

If the taliban dug trenches do you think usaf would have spared them when they located their positions

 

[Robert]

But NATO countries have been training Ukrainian forces, providing huge numbers of small arms, military aid, military intelligence and now more heavy armor. NATO are deeply involved in this.

NATO had a chance at direct involvement, the western public were demanding it earlier with the no-fly zone. They decided not to, I wonder why...

Turkey don't want those Scandinavian countries in NATO. Erdogan was clear on this. So where is this strength and unity?

Come on, it’s obvious. Because it would mean risking the end of the world.

Turkey, or rather Erdoyan is playing one side off against the other for leverage with Putin and perhaps should be thrown out of NATO. Turkey joined at a time when the nation was more liberal than it is now.

 

[Robert]

I'm afraid none of this matters when you consider the cost of living crisis. Just yesterday when I went to get some groceries I was shocked by how much my final bill had become. Most of last year I spent around £60-£70 for my weekly groceries - right now it's up over £90. Milk arund has gone from £1.50 to £1.99 in my local supermarket.

Whatever we think of Johnson, him and his leadership team won't survive unless they do something about the cost of living which he has contributed massively towards with these sanctions on Russian commodities.

For once we agree.

COVID and the war have been convenient distractions from Johnson’s gross incompetence.

 

[bones]

Come on, it’s obvious. Because it would mean risking the end of the world.

Turkey, or rather Erdoyan is playing one side off against the other for leverage with Putin and perhaps should be thrown out of NATO. Turkey joined at a time when the nation was more liberal than it is now.

But would it? All of the countries involved have a non-first use policy in regards to nukes.

So you agree that NATO is not really United is it? Turkey are the 2nd biggest player in NATO so not exactly someone the organisation can ignore.

 

[Robert]

(This is not a majority of cases) but people shouldn’t have signed up for this scheme if they were not prepared to take it all the way and commit in full.

I thought hard about signing up, but a Refugee Council spokesman gave a warning. Anyone you take is unlikely to speak English, will require intensive support for self and kids, and quite likely has severe PTSD from being shot at and bombed. Such a houseguest would start to grate on the homeowner in short order.

Johnson’s plan to outsource housing the refugees to the private sector this way was smart as it made people feels virtuous while not spending on setting up Hoovervilles made of container houses. But as with everything else he has not thought it through.

 

[bones]

Bones Your completely deluded no one is denying that the ukranian military is not well trained and has proper troops , ukraine has no airforce and modern warfare is won by air power russian aircraft and precision munitions don't cut it hence why they can't bomb the ukranianians with precision out of the war hence relying on overwhelming seige tactics reminiscent of ww2 using artillery and fighting trench warfare.

If the taliban dug trenches do you think usaf would have spared them when they located their positions

Huge difference between the two wars. Here Russia are fighting an enemy with more modern weapons, a larger army and are using ethnic Russian human Shields. The delusion is from those who continue to tell us Russia are losing or not performing well when they are gaining territory everyday.

Neither side is using their airforce because the anti-air is superior. Even small man pads are capable of taking out low flying combat and support aircraft. Why get £20 million jets destroyed by £50k manpads?

 

[Robert]

But would it? All of the countries involved have a non-first use policy in regards to nukes.

So you agree that NATO is not really United is it? Turkey are the 2nd biggest player in NATO so not exactly someone the organisation can ignore.

These things can escalate. NATO and Russian jets might hassle each other until someone gets jumpy and launches a missile. Russians might incur in Estonia, NATO push them off and overstep their stop line and cross into Russia and suddenly a nuclear shell is fired. Russian fire doctrine doesn’t consider nukes ‘different’ like Western nations do - they are just the next stage up after conventional artillery and then thermobaric. A single nuclear shell is fired in response. Suddenly the ICBMs are in the air, drum roll, curtains.

Turkey were reliable allies a few years ago but Erdogan is not. It’s a problem for NATO HQ in Brussels.

Hungary might refuse to sign an Article Five declaration as Orban loves Putin, but the Alliance doesn’t need them with everyone rearming.

There might be some restructuring of NATO ahead anyway, if Trump is re-elected - he might pull USA out of the Alliance and the Euro Army idea might gain traction, maybe with Canada too.

 

[the Great Khan]

Eh? NATO aren't engaged because Ukraine isn't a NATO member. Surely you must know this.

If anything, the Alliance will be strengthened as Sweden and Finland join and Germany triples her defence spend.

NATO is an alliance that is not solely about boots on the ground. It's job was to prevent war in Europe on this scale. It has failed.

A poster above said Russia had lost troops and equipment. Of course but many were obsolete and now Putin and his cronies will simply use the money they are making from this war to order more modern weapons and revitalise what seemed to be a stagnant force. It will also learn lessons on how to conduct further ops.

Finland and Sweden joining will enlarge the alliance but further increase the liklihood of another war. Hence again leading to questions around Nato and its ultimate effectiveness.

Prior to this war Russia was pinned down and surrounded. Now it is moving aggressively within Europe. It will do so in the ME too..instead of the nato lead peaceful world the West promised we are now closer than ever to ww3. NATO has failed and should be disbanded..

 

[daytrader]

UK, NATO warn of long Ukraine war as Zelenskyy visits front lines
British prime minister, NATO head call for sustained support for Ukraine as Russia intensifies assault on eastern regions.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg have warned Western allies to prepare for the long haul in Ukraine, as Russian forces intensified their assault on Ukrainian positions in the east of the country.

The separate warnings from Johnson and Stoltenberg on Saturday came as Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy visited front lines in the southern regions of Mykolaiv and Odesa, where he declared that Ukrainians “will definitely” win against invading Russian troops.

Johnson, writing in The Sunday Times newspaper, called for sustained support for Ukraine, saying the country’s foreign backers should hold their nerve to ensure it has “the strategic endurance to survive and eventually prevail”.

“Time is now the vital factor,” the British leader wrote in the 1,000-word article posted online on Saturday night.

“Everything will depend on whether Ukraine can strengthen its ability to defend its soil faster than Russia can renew its capacity to attack. Our task is to enlist time on Ukraine’s side.”

To help, he outlined a four-point plan for “constant funding and technical help”, levels of which should be maintained for “years to come” and potentially be increased. And economic concerns – amid global food and energy crises made worse by the conflict – should not lead to a rushed settlement in Ukraine, said Johnson, who is battling inflation at 40-year highs at home and spiralling domestic fuel prices.

He added that allowing Russian President Vladimir Putin to keep territory in Ukraine would not lead to a more peaceful world.

“Such a travesty would be the greatest victory for aggression in Europe since the Second World War,” he said.

Stoltenberg also appealed for continued support for Ukraine, telling Germany’s Bild am Sonntag newspaper that the supply of state-of-the-art weaponry to Ukrainian troops would increase the chance of liberating the eastern Donbas region from Russian control.

“We must prepare for the fact that it could take years. We must not let up in supporting Ukraine,” he said. “Even if the costs are high, not only for military support, also because of rising energy and food prices.”

Setback in Metolkine
On Ukraine’s battlefields, the Ukrainian military reported intensified Russian attacks on its positions in the eastern cities of Kharkiv, Izyum, and Severodonetsk.

It said Severodonetsk, a prime target in Moscow’s offensive to seize full control of the eastern region of Luhansk in the Donbas region, was again under heavy artillery and rocket fire, but said that the Russian push to establish full control over the city remains “unsuccessful”.

However, it admitted that its forces had suffered a military setback in the nearby settlement of Metolkine.

“As a result of artillery fire and an assault, the enemy has partial success in the village of Metolkine, trying to gain a foothold,” it said in a Facebook post late on Saturday.

Serhiy Haidai, the Ukrainian-appointed governor of Luhansk, referred in a separate online post to “tough battles” in Metolkine, while Russia’s Tass news agency, citing a source working for Russian-backed separatists, said many Ukrainian fighters had surrendered in Metolkine.

To the northwest, several Russian missiles hit a gasworks in the Izyum district, and Russian rockets rained down on a suburb of Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city, hitting a municipal building and starting a fire in a block of flats but causing no casualties, Ukrainian authorities said.

Al Jazeera could not independently confirm the battlefield accounts.

Southern front lines
Meanwhile, Zelenskyy, the Ukrainian president whose defiance has inspired his countrymen and won him global respect, said in a Telegram post on Saturday that he had visited soldiers on the southern front line in the Mykolaiv region, about 550 km (340 miles) south of the capital, Kyiv.

Mykolaiv is a key target for Russia as it lies on the way to the strategic Black Sea port of Odesa. It is about 100 kilometres (62 miles) northwest of Kherson, which fell to Russia in the first weeks of the war.

“Our brave men and women. Each one of them is working flat out,” Zelenskyy said. “We will definitely hold out! We will definitely win!”

A video showed the Ukrainian president in his trademark khaki t-shirt handing out medals and posing for selfies with servicemen.

Zelenskyy’s office said he had also visited National Guard positions in the Odesa region.

“It is important that you are alive. As long as you live there is a strong Ukrainian wall that protects our country,” Zelenskyy told soldiers there.

“I want to thank you from the people of Ukraine, from our state for the great work you are doing, for your impeccable service.”

Zelenskyy has remained mostly in Kyiv since Russia invaded Ukraine, although in recent weeks he has made unannounced visits to Kharkiv, and two eastern cities close to where battles are being fought.

One of Putin’s stated goals when he ordered his troops into Ukraine was to halt the eastward expansion of the NATO military alliance and keep Moscow’s southern neighbour outside of the West’s sphere of influence.

But the war, which has killed thousands of people, turned cities into rubble and sent millions fleeing, has had the opposite effect – convincing Finland and Sweden to seek to join NATO – and helping to pave the way for Ukraine’s membership in the European Union.

The European Commission on Friday recommended that Ukraine be granted EU candidate status – something that the bloc’s members are expected to endorse at a summit this week.

Such a move would put Ukraine on course to realise an aspiration seen as out of reach before Russia’s February 24 invasion, even if actual membership could take years.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...tent&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 

[Robert]

NATO is an alliance that is not solely about boots on the ground. It's job was to prevent war in Europe on this scale. It has failed.

No, it’s a defensive Alliance to protect its member states. An attack on one member state is an attack on all. The one and only time Article Five was declared was an attack on USA, not Europe, on 9/11.

Nothing to do with attacks on non-member states in Europe or anywhere else.

No NATO state in Europe has ever been attacked by Russia, so the Alliance has succeeded in this regard. Latvia and Estonia would certainly have been re-conquered already otherwise.

That is what NATO is for.

 

[bones]

I find it remarkable how the public in NATO countries assume they understand Russian thinking. Robert has repeatedly indicated as have many others on various platforms that I use, that without NATO Russia’s border would be much further west than where it is right now.

 

[Robert]

I find it remarkable how the public in NATO countries assume they understand Russian thinking. Robert has repeatedly indicated as have many others on various platforms that I use, that without NATO Russia’s border would be much further west than where it is right now.

It’s interesting that every Western leader over the last seventy years agrees with me and these “many others” then. That’s why NATO was formed in the first place - to protect the Western democracies from the USSR after Stalin invaded Poland, part of Germany, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia etc.

But of late - not “Russian thinking”.

Putin thinking.

Guy thinks he’s a Tsar and wants the Russian Empire back.

It’s all about one man.

 

[Technics 1210]

After WW2, the West needed a Bogeyman, Russia was it.

Cold War ensued, then ended, and once again, the West needed another Bogeyman, this time Islamic Terrorists, starting with OBL.

Now the war on terror is over, West are back at it with goading Russia, and yup you guessed it, new Bogeyman.

All leaders in the West sing off the same hymn sheet, to ensure Europe is protected by the Amreekan Nuclear Umbrella; it’s a protection racket. Europe dances to Amreeka’s narrative, in exchange Amreeka offers ‘protection’.

It gets worse, because if any NATO member does not follow the narrative, all hell breaks out. Trump 2016, Brexit 2016 are just some examples.

No country attacked Amreeka on 9/11, this is a fact, but NATO members colluded among themselves, broke the rules, and waged war for 20 years in Afghanistan. Not forgetting the illegal war in Iraq 2003.

NATO is not about protection, it’s about aggression against the non-whites of the West. A racist warmongering organisation.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

These things can escalate. NATO and Russian jets might hassle each other until someone gets jumpy and launches a missile. Russians might incur in Estonia, NATO push them off and overstep their stop line and cross into Russia and suddenly a nuclear shell is fired. Russian fire doctrine doesn’t consider nukes ‘different’ like Western nations do - they are just the next stage up after conventional artillery and then thermobaric. A single nuclear shell is fired in response. Suddenly the ICBMs are in the air, drum roll, curtains.

Turkey were reliable allies a few years ago but Erdogan is not. It’s a problem for NATO HQ in Brussels.

Hungary might refuse to sign an Article Five declaration as Orban loves Putin, but the Alliance doesn’t need them with everyone rearming.

There might be some restructuring of NATO ahead anyway, if Trump is re-elected - he might pull USA out of the Alliance and the Euro Army idea might gain traction, maybe with Canada too.

Turkey were reliable allies until they realised their eastern neighbours couldn't be neglected while the west continued to bomb them.

 

[Robert]

Turkey were reliable allies until they realised their eastern neighbours couldn't be neglected while the west continued to bomb them.

Syria was also being bombed by Putin.

I think it’s more complex than you suggest. Turkey supports the Kurds in Syria because they oppose Assad. But they hate the Kurds in their own land. Turkey buys aircraft from USA, but AS400 missiles from Russia. There are lots of factors to consider.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Syria was also being bombed by Putin.

I think it’s more complex than you suggest. Turkey supports the Kurds in Syria because they oppose Assad. But they hate the Kurds in their own land. Turkey buys aircraft from USA, but AS400 missiles from Russia. There are lots of factors to consider.

There are definitely lots of factors to consider. but one that sticks in my mind is the old one from Roker Park Sunderland where England played Turkey. I would rather be a Pakistani than a Turk. It wasn't quite expressed that way of course but for censorship purposes I am modifying it.

I wonder why did Pakistan come up in a football match between England and Turkey?

 

[cpleigh]

There are definitely lots of factors to consider. but one that sticks in my mind is the old one from Roker Park Sunderland where England played Turkey. I would rather be a Pakistani than a Turk. It wasn't quite expressed that way of course but for censorship purposes I am modifying it.

I wonder why did Pakistan come up in a football match between England and Turkey?

you know why it came up. There is tension between white and pakistani communities in the working class heartlands of the UK (mainly the north).

And Turkish fans had just killed some Leeds fans

 

[the Great Khan]

No, it’s a defensive Alliance to protect its member states. An attack on one member state is an attack on all. The one and only time Article Five was declared was an attack on USA, not Europe, on 9/11.

Nothing to do with attacks on non-member states in Europe or anywhere else.

No NATO state in Europe has ever been attacked by Russia, so the Alliance has succeeded in this regard. Latvia and Estonia would certainly have been re-conquered already otherwise.

That is what NATO is for.

This is NATO's purpose :

Why was NATO founded?
The North Atlantic Alliance was founded in the aftermath of the Second World War. Its purpose was to secure peace in Europe, to promote cooperation among its members and to guard their freedom – all of this in the context of countering the threat posed at the time by the Soviet Union. The Alliance’s founding treaty was signed in Washington in 1949 by a dozen European and North American countries. It commits the Allies to democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law, as well as to peaceful resolution of disputes. Importantly, the treaty sets out the idea of collective defence, meaning that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization – or NATO – ensures that the security of its European member countries is inseparably linked to that of its North American member countries. The Organization also provides a unique forum for dialogue and cooperation across the Atlantic.

Note its primary purpose which is at the start. And it predates the Warsaw pact I believe.

It's purpose was to maintain peace in Europe. Not just amongst its members. It has failed as Europe has a war on its doorstep.

It also failed in Bosnia but that was purposefully.

NATO is not a defensive organisation because if it was it would have disbanded after the cold War. Since then it has enables invasions across the world and bee involved in numerous destabilising events like Salala in Pakistan. It should be disbanded as it is a threat to world peace and security.

 

[bones]

I certainly think the world would be better off without NATO.

 

[MenInG]

 

[MenInG]

UK offers military training for Ukrainian forces

Boris Johnson has made a second surprise visit to Kyiv, and offered to launch a major training operation for Ukrainian forces.

During talks with Ukraine's President Zelensky, the prime minister said, "we are with you to give you the strategic endurance that you will need."

 

[bones]

For several weeks and months now the MSM has been running with headlines like Russia are running out of missiles. When this question was asked to their deputy PM, he laughed. He said we have been planning this for months. Do you really think we wouldn't have planned for something as basic as having enough weapons to sustain this operation?

The answer to why we're seeing fewer and fewer precision missiles being launched, is nothing to do with Russia running out of them but rather Russia not having as many targets to fire them at.

 

[Robert]

This is NATO's purpose :

Why was NATO founded?
The North Atlantic Alliance was founded in the aftermath of the Second World War. Its purpose was to secure peace in Europe, to promote cooperation among its members and to guard their freedom – all of this in the context of countering the threat posed at the time by the Soviet Union. The Alliance’s founding treaty was signed in Washington in 1949 by a dozen European and North American countries. It commits the Allies to democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law, as well as to peaceful resolution of disputes. Importantly, the treaty sets out the idea of collective defence, meaning that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization – or NATO – ensures that the security of its European member countries is inseparably linked to that of its North American member countries. The Organization also provides a unique forum for dialogue and cooperation across the Atlantic.

Note its primary purpose which is at the start. And it predates the Warsaw pact I believe.

It's purpose was to maintain peace in Europe. Not just amongst its members. It has failed as Europe has a war on its doorstep.

It also failed in Bosnia but that was purposefully.

NATO is not a defensive organisation because if it was it would have disbanded after the cold War. Since then it has enables invasions across the world and bee involved in numerous destabilising events like Salala in Pakistan. It should be disbanded as it is a threat to world peace and security.

Simplistic and inaccurate post there GK. "Peace in Europe" is a woolly phrase - why would USA and Canada join such an alliance, if there was nothing to gain in return? But they are protected as well by it, as on 9/11 when Article Five was declared by every NATO state even though European member states had not been attacked.

It did not disband in 1989 after the Cold War ended because of the political instability in the former USSR states, two of which had a lot of nuclear weapons. The rise of Putin shows that the NATO states were right to remain vigilant. In my opinion Cold War Two began in 2008 anyway.

NATO never started a war, because it cannot - only governments can do that and NATO is not a government. It's a means for cooperation between the militaries of the Western democracies in support of each other. Governments start wars, not NATO. You think if NATO was not there then the invasion of Iraq wouldn't have gone ahead? Of course it would have. That wasn't a NATO operation as most NATO states refused to join in, knowing that Saddam was no threat to the nations of the Alliance.

NATO, authorised by the UN succeeded in bringing the 1992 Yugoslav War to an end, then succeeded in stopped a genocide of Muslims in the Kosovo war of 1999.

However I will admit that Trump and Biden have not played fair by the other Alliance members, Trump by unpredictable behaviour generally and Biden by unilaterally pulling out of Afghanistan leaving ISAF forces in the lurch. The EU should have its own military command and concentrate on safeguarding EU states.

 

[bones]

DPR leader Denis Pushilin said the following in a recent interview. I suspect there's no way he would have said this without getting the green light from Moscow.

Russia are going to cotinue this operation until the end of the year. They are not even close to coming to the negotiating table.

Russia will continue until every Russian city is returned to Russia. He didn't give names but apparently this includes Odessa, Dnipro and Kharkiv.

The west has been flooding Ukraine with weapons, this is something that has made the Russian stance on the operation even firmer.

By the end of the operation, Ukraine may not exist as an independent state. According to the Russian journalists, this implies some sort of deal might be cut with Poland on western Ukraine.

Anyone who thought Russia were losing and might be looking for an off-ramp, well think again.

 

[Robert]

I certainly think the world would be better off without NATO.

Europe would have been absorbed by USSR by the 1960s, and we'd all be under the communist yoke and unable to talk about this sort of thing on the internet for fear of getting disappeared.

Democracy and freedom have to be defended and NATO did that and still does. I am very grateful to it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

you know why it came up. There is tension between white and pakistani communities in the working class heartlands of the UK (mainly the north).

And Turkish fans had just killed some Leeds fans

Roker Park wasn't in Leeds or where there was any tension in areas you mention. There was no link at that game between Pakistan and Turkey

 

[bones]

Has anyone seen some of the speech Putin made in St Petersburg? Seems to me like it's 20% about the military situation and 80% about the economic/political.

Sounds to me like it's almost a victory speech - not that he has to convince anyone who can see what happening on the ground and to Europe economically.

 

[Reddy]

American mercenaries fighting for Ukraine were in a 2 hour long fire fight against.. Ukrainian special forces

On top of that, a British special Air Service sniper got “evaporated” by Ukrainian DPR in friendly fire:

https://twitter.com/sethharpesq/status/1538265828134887424

 

[Reddy]

The US has changed its mind about supplying combat drones to Kiev— fearing that they will be captured by Russia.

“The implementation of the plans of the White House to sell Ukraine 4 reconnaissance and strike drones MQ-1C Gray Eagle has been suspended due to fears of Pentagon officials that UAVs could fall into the hands of the Russian army.” - Reuters

 

[Reddy]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Truth grenades on German TV! <a href="https://t.co/oWl3Rk6DGM">pic.twitter.com/oWl3Rk6DGM</a></p>— vanessa beeley (@VanessaBeeley) <a href="https://twitter.com/VanessaBeeley/status/1538140883425583104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Reddy]

The Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation confirms that in the area of ​​​​Kremenchug and Lisichansk fuel depots, which were used to supply the Armed Forces of Ukraine, were destroyed. The destruction of the Kremenchug refinery was also announced.

 

[Reddy]

Germany says it will do everything to eliminate the technical problems that prevent the full operation of Nord Stream, due to which gas supplies to Europe have been sharply reduced.

To do this, it is necessary to bypass our own sanctions restrictions, which prevent the supply of German equipment to Russia (Siemens equipment is stuck in Canada due to sanctions).

 

[James]

<b>New UK Army chief issues Russia rallying cry</b>

The new head of the British Army has issued a rallying cry to troops - telling them they need to be ready to face Russia on the battlefield.

Gen Sir Patrick Sanders, who started the job last week, addressed all ranks and civil servants in an internal message on 16 June, seen by the BBC.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine shows the need "to protect the UK and be ready to fight and win wars on land", he says.

He adds the Army and allies must now be "capable of...defeating Russia".

A defence source told the BBC's defence correspondent Jonathan Beale the tone of the message - issued on the Ministry of Defence's internal intranet - was unsurprising.

They said all armies train to fight, but the threat has clearly changed.

Gen Sir Patrick noted in the message that he was the first Chief of the General Staff "since 1941 to take command of the Army in the shadow of a land war in Europe involving a major continental power".

He added: "Russia's invasion of Ukraine underlines our core purpose - to protect the UK and to be ready to fight and win wars on land - and reinforces the requirement to deter Russian aggression with the threat of force."

He noted "the world has changed since the 24th February and there is now a burning imperative to forge an Army capable of fighting alongside our allies and defeating Russia in battle".

Gen Sir Patrick also set out his goal to "accelerate the mobilisation and modernisation of the Army to reinforce Nato and deny Russia the chance to occupy any more of Europe… we are the generation that must prepare the Army to fight in Europe once again".

The Russian invasion of Ukraine has changed the outlook and context for the Army, which faces cuts to the workforce in the coming years.

• In March 2021, the government announced a reduction in the number of soldiers it plans to have in the Army to 72,500 by 2025.
• Defence spending in the UK has seen an increase of £3bn a year in real terms since 2016-17, following a real-terms cut in funding of £6.6bn between 2010 and 2017.
• Russia spends about 4.14% of its gross domestic product on its military, while the UK spends about 2.33%, according to data from IISS Global Military Balance 2020.

Before Russia's invasion, Prime Minister Boris Johnson told MPs last November that he believed the era of tanks rolling through Europe was behind us.

Challenged over defence spending in light of growing Russian aggression, Mr Johnson said at the time:

“We have to recognise that the old concepts of fighting big tank battles on European land mass are over and there are other better things we should be investing in."

He said enhanced air combat systems and cyber strategies were "how warfare in the future is going to be fought... and that is where we need to be".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61858476

 

[James]

<b>New UK Army chief issues Russia rallying cry</b>

The new head of the British Army has issued a rallying cry to troops - telling them they need to be ready to face Russia on the battlefield.

Gen Sir Patrick Sanders, who started the job last week, addressed all ranks and civil servants in an internal message on 16 June, seen by the BBC.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine shows the need "to protect the UK and be ready to fight and win wars on land", he says.

He adds the Army and allies must now be "capable of...defeating Russia".

A defence source told the BBC's defence correspondent Jonathan Beale the tone of the message - issued on the Ministry of Defence's internal intranet - was unsurprising.

They said all armies train to fight, but the threat has clearly changed.

Gen Sir Patrick noted in the message that he was the first Chief of the General Staff "since 1941 to take command of the Army in the shadow of a land war in Europe involving a major continental power".

He added: "Russia's invasion of Ukraine underlines our core purpose - to protect the UK and to be ready to fight and win wars on land - and reinforces the requirement to deter Russian aggression with the threat of force."

He noted "the world has changed since the 24th February and there is now a burning imperative to forge an Army capable of fighting alongside our allies and defeating Russia in battle".

Gen Sir Patrick also set out his goal to "accelerate the mobilisation and modernisation of the Army to reinforce Nato and deny Russia the chance to occupy any more of Europe… we are the generation that must prepare the Army to fight in Europe once again".

The Russian invasion of Ukraine has changed the outlook and context for the Army, which faces cuts to the workforce in the coming years.

• In March 2021, the government announced a reduction in the number of soldiers it plans to have in the Army to 72,500 by 2025.
• Defence spending in the UK has seen an increase of £3bn a year in real terms since 2016-17, following a real-terms cut in funding of £6.6bn between 2010 and 2017.
• Russia spends about 4.14% of its gross domestic product on its military, while the UK spends about 2.33%, according to data from IISS Global Military Balance 2020.

Before Russia's invasion, Prime Minister Boris Johnson told MPs last November that he believed the era of tanks rolling through Europe was behind us.

Challenged over defence spending in light of growing Russian aggression, Mr Johnson said at the time:

“We have to recognise that the old concepts of fighting big tank battles on European land mass are over and there are other better things we should be investing in."

He said enhanced air combat systems and cyber strategies were "how warfare in the future is going to be fought... and that is where we need to be".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61858476

This is an interesting statement from the Army Chief because it sort of suggests that this could be the next action taken by the UK.

 

[James]

Another one —

Not exactly encouraging news —

<b>Ukraine war could last for years, warns Nato chief</b>

The West must prepare to continue supporting Ukraine in a war lasting for years, Nato's chief has warned.

Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said the costs of war were high, but the price of letting Moscow achieve its military goals was even greater.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has also warned of a longer-term conflict.

And in a stark warning, the newly appointed head of the British Army said the UK and allies needed to be capable of winning a ground war with Russia.

Gen Sir Patrick Sanders, who started the job last week, said in an internal message seen by the BBC:

"Russia's invasion of Ukraine underlines our core purpose - to protect the UK and to be ready to fight and win wars on land - and reinforces the requirement to deter Russian aggression with the threat of force."

Mr Stoltenberg and Mr Johnson said sending more weapons would make a victory for Ukraine more likely.

"We must prepare for the fact that it could take years. We must not let up in supporting Ukraine," the Nato chief said in an interview with German newspaper Bild.

"Even if the costs are high, not only for military support, also because of rising energy and food prices."

The Western military alliance chief said that supplying Ukraine with more modern weapons would increase its chances of being able to liberate the country's eastern Donbas region, much of which is currently under Russian control.

For the last few months Russian and Ukrainian forces have battled for control of territory in the country's east - with Moscow making slow advances in recent weeks.

Writing in the Sunday Times, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson accused Russia's Vladimir Putin of resorting to a "campaign of attrition" and "trying to grind down Ukraine by sheer brutality."

"I'm afraid we need to steel ourselves for a long war," he wrote.

"Time is the vital factor. Everything will depend on whether Ukraine can strengthen its ability to defend its soil faster than Russia can renew its capacity to attack."

The prime minister, who visited Ukraine's capital on Friday, said supplies of weapons, equipment, ammunition, and training to Kyiv needed to outpace Moscow's efforts to rearm itself.

Ukrainian officials have spoken bluntly in recent days about the need to boost the supply of heavy weapons to the country if Russian forces there are to be defeated.

On Wednesday the country's defence minister, Oleksiy Resnikov, met some 50 countries in the Ukraine Defence Contact Group in Brussels to ask for more arms and ammunition.

The country's Western allies have so far offered it major weapons supplies but Ukraine says it has only received a fraction of what it needs to defend itself and is asking for heavier arms.

Russian officials often criticise Nato military support for Ukraine and in an interview last week with the BBC the country's Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, cited the prospect of Ukraine joining the Western alliance as a reason for the invasion in the first place.

"We declared a special military operation because we had absolutely no other way of explaining to the West that dragging Ukraine into Nato was a criminal act," Mr Lavrov told the BBC.

Ukraine is not a member of Nato and although it has expressed a wish to join there is no timeframe for this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61856144

 

[Technics 1210]

UK Army chief rallying the 'troops'

Ha ha ha!

Warmongering West has just admitted Russia has won the war.

 

[Reddy]

The UN “condemns the shelling of Donetsk” on a daily basis. One funny thing though, when the UN condemned shelling of Kiev, they specifically made sure the text states at least 300x “russian military shelling of Kiev civilian areas” — guess how many times the UN mentions “Ukrainian military shelling of Donetsk civilian areas” - ?

Zero.

Not once. It’s literally unclear to the reader who carries out the shelling of Donetsk civilians.

 

[Robert]

This is an interesting statement from the Army Chief because it sort of suggests that this could be the next action taken by the UK.

I suggest that he is playing politics - saying “If you want me to deploy a brigade, I can’t do it, we don’t have the men” - in order to reverse the post-2010 defence cuts.

Which goes for the RAF too, gutted by the 2010 Defence Review.

 

[Technics 1210]

Here's the irony.

Since UK joined NATO, its military has been in decline. This is the price the UK pays to be a slave to the Amreekan narrative. So stop complaining NATO apologists. You sold your souls to the devil decades ago.

Special relationship my backside. Amreeka has never won a war on its own, it uses it pawns (UK) first and foremost.

Amreeka doesn't care about Europe, UK cannot even launch nukes without the permission of Uncle Sam.

 

[Robert]

As for the Russo-Ukraine War grinding on - after Putin fully conquers the Donbas, I would imagine there will be a demilitarised zone established.

A decades-long resistance by Ukrainian patriots will follow - sniping off-duty troops, car-bombing checkpoints, assassinating government collaborators and so on, like PLO and Hamas in Israel-occupied Palestine.

 

[Firebat]

Russia blockading Ukrainian grain is a 'real war crime' - EU

Russia's blockade of millions of tonnes of Ukrainian grain is a "real war crime", says EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell.

"It is inconceivable - one cannot imagine that millions of tonnes of wheat remain blocked in Ukraine while in the rest of the world people are suffering hunger," Mr Borrell said.

"We call on Russia to deblockade the [Ukrainian] ports."

EU foreign ministers are meeting to discuss the crisis.

Western countries have demanded Russia stop blockading Ukraine's Black Sea ports and allow vast stores of grain to reach world markets.

The blockade has sparked warnings that tens of millions of people are at risk of famine and sent food prices soaring.

Ahead of the meeting in Luxembourg, Mr Borrell said: "This is a real war crime, so I cannot imagine that this will last much longer."

He said Russia should be held "accountable" if it keeps blocking the export of vitally needed grain from Ukraine.

The 27-nation bloc disputes Russia's claims that rising prices and food shortages in the Middle East and Africa are down to EU sanctions imposed over the invasion of Ukraine.

Mr Borrell added: "I want to insist that it's not European sanctions that are creating this crisis - our sanctions don't target food, don't target fertilisers.

"The problem comes from the Russian blockade of Ukrainian grains."

French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna said that "Russia must stop playing with global hunger" as it seeks leverage on the West.

"Leaving cereals blocked is dangerous for stability in the world," she said.

The head of the Polish prime minister's office, Michal Dworczyk, is due to speak with Ukrainian infrastructure minister Oleksandr Kubrakov about changes that will speed up checks for trucks on the Polish-Ukrainian border to help export more grain from Ukraine.

In other developments:

- Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has warned Russia will intensify its attacks on his country in the coming days, as Kyiv awaits news on its bid to join the EU

- The UK's Ministry of Defence has said Russia's troops in Ukraine are becoming exhausted saying the air force had "failed" to provide adequate support

- Russia has become China's biggest supplier of oil as the country sold discounted crude to Beijing

- Russian journalist Dmitry Muratov has said he will auction off his Nobel Peace Prize medal to raise funds to help children displaced by the war in Ukraine

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61864049

 

[Technics 1210]

Russia blockading Ukrainian grain is a 'real war crime' - EU

Russia's blockade of millions of tonnes of Ukrainian grain is a "real war crime", says EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell.

"It is inconceivable - one cannot imagine that millions of tonnes of wheat remain blocked in Ukraine while in the rest of the world people are suffering hunger," Mr Borrell said.

"We call on Russia to deblockade the [Ukrainian] ports."

EU foreign ministers are meeting to discuss the crisis.

Western countries have demanded Russia stop blockading Ukraine's Black Sea ports and allow vast stores of grain to reach world markets.

The blockade has sparked warnings that tens of millions of people are at risk of famine and sent food prices soaring.

Ahead of the meeting in Luxembourg, Mr Borrell said: "This is a real war crime, so I cannot imagine that this will last much longer."

He said Russia should be held "accountable" if it keeps blocking the export of vitally needed grain from Ukraine.

The 27-nation bloc disputes Russia's claims that rising prices and food shortages in the Middle East and Africa are down to EU sanctions imposed over the invasion of Ukraine.

Mr Borrell added: "I want to insist that it's not European sanctions that are creating this crisis - our sanctions don't target food, don't target fertilisers.

"The problem comes from the Russian blockade of Ukrainian grains."

French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna said that "Russia must stop playing with global hunger" as it seeks leverage on the West.

"Leaving cereals blocked is dangerous for stability in the world," she said.

The head of the Polish prime minister's office, Michal Dworczyk, is due to speak with Ukrainian infrastructure minister Oleksandr Kubrakov about changes that will speed up checks for trucks on the Polish-Ukrainian border to help export more grain from Ukraine.

In other developments:

- Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has warned Russia will intensify its attacks on his country in the coming days, as Kyiv awaits news on its bid to join the EU

- The UK's Ministry of Defence has said Russia's troops in Ukraine are becoming exhausted saying the air force had "failed" to provide adequate support

- Russia has become China's biggest supplier of oil as the country sold discounted crude to Beijing

- Russian journalist Dmitry Muratov has said he will auction off his Nobel Peace Prize medal to raise funds to help children displaced by the war in Ukraine

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61864049

Oh boo hoo EU!

When Isreal blocks supplies to Palestinians, your racist leaders are silent!

Burn in hell!

 

[KingKhanWC]

it was in the Times this week and alsohttps://www.statista.com/statistics/1033016/russia-number-of-people-under-poverty/

No, i think they should be treat in accordance with the Geneva convention. Soldiers can only be put on trial if accused of war crimes

When Putin first rose to prominence the Soviet era came to an end. Russians were very poor, eating soup out of bowls. Since then he has transformed their lives, making them much better. There are many videos of Russian supermarkets having food much cheaper than Europe. We have a cost of living crisis here in the UK with Europe set to run out of gas in the winter yet you are using Russian poverty argument to suggest they are the ones being harmed. Western sanctions have backfired big time.

They will tried and punished under the law of the independent republics. Nato and Europe have broken all laws, targeting Russia and Russians but now you want Russia to follow laws lol.

 

[KingKhanWC]

UK Army chief rallying the 'troops'

Ha ha ha!

Warmongering West has just admitted Russia has won the war.

UK armed forces chiefs are clueless, seem like old posh fools living in some sort of colonial past.

The Admiral says Russia has lost while the Army chief says UK needs to send in troops to fight the Russians. Which is it?

If Nato troops formally enter Ukraine, it will be an act of all out war with Russia, which could result in Russia targeting other Nato countries or bombing their bases. The army chief will not be sending his sons or daughters but safe in the UK.

The two Yanks caught, one wasnt even trained as a soldier but is a chemical weapons expert. I wonder what he was doing in Ukraine? Also news of an Ex SAS British sniper who was bombed by Ukranian troops in friendly fire. This is a rag tag of an armed force which is clueless, no wonder its being obliterated in the East.

 

[Technics 1210]

Well well, the tide is turning!

Russia is 100% winning this war.



Tens Of Thousands Of Workers March In Brussels Protesting Rising Living Cost And NATO’s War

Tens of thousands of workers demonstrated against the rising cost of living, with many linking the crisis to the NATO’s war and Russia policies. Many demonstrators condemned the US-led NATO alliance and its involvement in the Ukraine war. Many linked their dire economic straits to the EU’s sanctions regime on Russia and with the NATO’s rush to arm Ukraine.

Protesters demanded that their leaders “spend money on salaries, not on weapons,” and chanted “stop NATO.”

Media reports said:

Workers marched through Brussels on Monday demanding government action to tackle sharply rising living costs, as one-day strikes at Brussels Airport and on local transport networks nationwide brought public travel to a near-halt.

Protesters carried flags and banners reading “More respect, higher wages” and “End excise duty”, and many protesters set off flares. Some demanded the government do more, others said employers needed to improve pay and working conditions.

Unions said about 80,000 were present. Police put the figure at 70,000.

Local public transport operators were running skeleton services, though some train lines were operating, partly to allow protesters to converge on the capital.

Inflation in Belgium hit 9% in June, mirroring sharp rises elsewhere driven primarily by the impact of war in Ukraine on supply chains and energy and commodity prices.

Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo said Belgian workers were better protected than counterparts in most other European Union countries because wages were indexed to inflation.

He told public broadcaster RTBF the government had extended sales tax breaks on gas, electricity and fuel until the end of the year.

The trade union-organized protest packed the streets of Brussels, bringing the city to a standstill.

While similar protests against rising costs have taken place across Europe as of late – thousands of trade unionists marched in London on Saturday – few have linked the soaring prices with the actions of NATO and its members.

Just three months ago, some protesters in Brussels waved Ukrainian flags and demanded that the EU cut itself off from “Putin’s Oil.” Weeks before that, there was a demonstration outside European Parliament buildings calling for “sanctions for Russia.”

Brussels is home to headquarters of both the EU and NATO. It was also the city from where U.S. President Joe Biden chose to announce a round of sanctions on Russia in March, before immediately telling a reporter that “sanctions never deter” those targeted by them.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has accused European countries of committing economic “suicide” via sanctions, and predicted last week that the EU’s “direct losses” from this sanctions policy “could exceed $400 billion in a year.”

The Belgian protest, organized by the ACV, ACLVB and ABVV trade union federations, heralds the start of a week of industrial action across Belgium.

The unions want political leaders to do more to address the cost-of-living crisis and to reform legislation to allow easier salary negotiations.

Flemish public transport operator De Lijn warned trams and buses would be affected by worker absences and route closures.

Brussels Airport said it could not allow passenger flights to depart because the industrial action extended to security personnel, and most arrivals were also cancelled. In addition to packing the streets, the protest led to mass cancellations of flights at Brussels Airport, as unions representing security personnel went on strike. Public transit routes around the city were also operating at drastically reduced capacity.

Management at Brussels Airport warned of queues of up to eight hours at security screening after a walkout by G4S security staff.

The company advised passengers not to come to the airport and to rebook their flight “if possible”.

Most scheduled flights on Monday, including all outbound flight, were cancelled. Brussels Airport said it could not allow passenger flights because of the security walkout.

Management at Brussels South Charleroi Airport, a hub for low-cost airlines such as Ryanair, urged passengers to arrive at least three hours before departure, amid disruption concerns.

Belgian unions representing cabin crew of Ryanair say they plan a strike from June 24 to June 26, during a peak holiday weekend and an EU summit in Brussels on June 23 and June 24.

Unions at flag carrier Brussels Airlines plan to go on strike at around the same period.

The ACV and BBTK unions say Ryanair is not respecting Belgian labor law, which covers such issues as the minimum wage and cabin crew payments.

Some of Europe’s busiest airports have been affected by staff shortages and logistical issues in recent weeks.

Amsterdam

Cleaning staff at Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport went on strike on Monday after they were not part of 5.25 euros per hour pay bonus given to 15,000 other workers at the airport.

UK

There was also flight disruption at UK airports caused by staff shortages and equipment failure, while the UK is set to be crippled by industrial action on Tuesday.

Heathrow on Monday asked airlines to cut 10 per cent of flights at two terminals on Monday, while easyJet has started cancelling thousands of flights.

The move by Heathrow affected around 5,000 passengers at Terminals 2 and 3 on approximately 30 flights.

An Emirates Airbus A380 with almost 500 passengers to Dubai was one of the flights that were grounded.

Other cancellations included at least three Virgin Atlantic transatlantic flights, two of them to New York and Los Angeles.

British Airways said it had cancelled flights to France, including three destined for Toulouse and two for Marseille.

It comes after images emerged on Friday of a huge pile-up of passengers’ luggage at Heathrow. It has been blamed on technical problems.

Heathrow “apologized unreservedly” in a statement for the disruption faced by passengers at the weekend.

Meanwhile, Britain is bracing itself for three one-day strikes on its railways starting on Tuesday.

The strikes by the Rail, Maritime and Transport union are likely to severely disrupt services on the railways and London Underground, with increased traffic expected to choke roads during the summer.

https://countercurrents.org/2022/06...-protesting-rising-living-cost-and-natos-war/

Funny, MSM were not reporting this news on front pages? Of course not!

 

[silentkiller187]

British media: Nearly 500 Ukrainian families left to live on the streets in the UK after refugee sponsors kicked them out of their houses.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-refugees-left-homeless-in-england-data-shows

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/17/homes-for-ukraine-refugees-being-left-homeless-uk

Wonder how long it will be before they are eligible for the lovely flight to Rwanda.?