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Russia responsible for downing of Malaysian Airlines MH17, UN body rules [Update@ Post#128]

HamzaSaeen

HamzaSaeen

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Seeing this on tv now, 295 people have been killed, inna lillahi wa inna illaihi rajioun!
 
Wonder why they would shoot a Malaysian jetliner?

This is the second incident with Malaysian airliner in the past 6 months.

inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajioon

RIP to all the people that have passed because of this unfortunate accident.
 
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mmkextreme_1 said:
Wonder why they would shoot a Malaysian jetliner?

This is the second incident with Malaysian airliner in the past 6 months.
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Russia has been shooting down Ukrainian army planes quite frequently in that region. Could have been a serious error.

BBC also blaming the possible hand of Rebels. Not aware of Russian politics, so no idea of who they are.
 
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inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajioon

Really sad news.

Lucky people to die in the month of Ramadan. Gates of heaven are opened.
 
I think most likley shot down by "Russian rebels" as they have been shooting down quite a few Ukranian aircraft in the last few months, including 3 were shot down this week.

Tragic for Malaysians and all on board to suffer such a fate.
 
Electron said:
Russia has been shooting down Ukrainian army planes quite frequently in that region. Could have been a serious error.

BBC also blaming the possible hand of Rebels. Not aware of Russian politics, so no idea of who they are.
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Yeah have been reading up on the Russian shooting down of Ukrainian military planes.

I would assume this jetliner would have been at an high altitude, don't think rebels have that kind of technology to shoot down such a plane. If it was shot down by something with more sophisticated weaponry. Serious serious error caused, if it was shot down.

My heart goes out to all the families that have been effected.
 
It is an absolutely serious and unforgivable error if it was shot down like being mentioned by early media reports.
 
Tera Gawaandi said:
Planet Earth is the worst planet for sometime now.

What is Malaysian Airlines fault if world is screwed up?

It's shot down by ground to air missile.
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Ground to air missile can travel to approx 40000 feet in the air? Not possible.
 
SAMs,surface to air missiles can engage targets flying at extremely high altitudes.Shooting down passenger plane which normaly flies at 10000 meters is not a big deal.
 
saeedhk said:
SAMs,surface to air missiles can engage targets flying at extremely high altitudes.Shooting down passenger plane which normaly flies at 10000 meters is not a big deal.
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Indeed but they're not the same as run of the mill ground to air missiles.
Anyway this is all mere speculation, we should better wait for investigation rather than giving final judgement on this...
 
Another tragedy involving a Malaysian airliner.

BBC News saying that shooting down a plane at 32,000ft would have required a long-range surface-to-air missile - possibly guided by radar. That suggests it is unlikely it could have been downed by a portable air defence missile which has a much shorter range.

The only other possibility is for an aircraft at that height to be downed by a fighter carrying air-to-air missiles.

Wreckage has been found in the village of Grabovo.
 
Very sad and very unfortunate.

Malaysia has been terrible off late.
 
There is no possible way that some terrorist or rebel group shot it down. It was an international flight, hemce the plane was flying much above ground level. Dont think rebels have got such technology.

Had the plane been kanding then it would had been few meters away from ground and then its possible for rebebls shooting it

Most probably either russian or ukranian army did this by accident
 
Apparently it is a BUK missile system (russian) capable of shooting targets up to altitudes of 72000 ft, while this airliner was at 30,000. Early reports are this is the work of Pro russia militants. One of them posted on twitter just moments after plane went missing that they had just shot down a Ukrainian cargo plain, that post was soon deleted after.


Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilayhi Rajiun
 
The plane appeared to have broken up before impact, with the wreck scattered over a wide area in the village of Grabovo - which is currently under the control of armed pro-Russian separatists.
 
That's terrible news.

Even if it's not their fault, I wouldn't board a Malaysian airlines plane ever after the recent incidents.

And why fly over soulless Russians and their war-zone anyway?
 
Tragic news!!!!!!!!

In devastated for the families, lets wait for some definitive reason before we start mud slinging
 
KL is a major int'l business hub and I'm sure the plane was full of internationals. This will have a major impact on the political situation. Terrible tragedy similar to when Korean airline was shot down by the Soviets or the Iranian airline shot down by US.

One of the passengers even posted a photo of the plane on his FB before boarding saying, "In case the plane goes missing."
 
Major said:
There is no possible way that some terrorist or rebel group shot it down. It was an international flight, hemce the plane was flying much above ground level. Dont think rebels have got such technology.

Had the plane been kanding then it would had been few meters away from ground and then its possible for rebebls shooting it

Most probably either russian or ukranian army did this by accident
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Actually the rebels do. They were parading the BUK system last week and tweets by rebels bragging about downing a plane are being deleted all over twitter.
 
I would wait for a proper investigation to be completed by a neutral party before making a judgement. Whenever fingers are pointed this quickly after a tragedy you have to take the news with a pinch of salt.
 
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Soon after shooting down the plane pro-russian rebels posted this and then deleted it afterwards....

So this was obviously the rebels.

IMaKN3h.jpg

Translation:

AN-26 airplane was shot down near Torez, it fell somewhere behind the mine "Progress".
We warned - do not fly in "our sky".
And here is the video proof of another "bird-fall" (bird = slang for an airplane).
Another bird fell behind the spoil tip, residential areas were not affected.
No civilians were harmed.
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Chickenkorma said:
Soon after shooting down the plane pro-russian rebels posted this and then deleted it afterwards....

So this was obviously the rebels.
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Last para is "also there is information about a second shot down aircraft- looks like a Su.....
 
Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilayhi Rajiun

So sad to hear this so soon after the last tragedy of Malaysian air.
 
A civilian plane gets shot down killing almost 300 people yet the overwhelming emotion seems to be what bad luck for Malaysian airlines. Shouldn't there be more questions being raised as to what on earth justified attacking a civilian jet?
 
Malaysian Jet crashes near Ukraine

Yet again innocent people are on the forefront of war. Horrible :(
 
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One of the guys on the Malaysian plane posted this on his FB before boarding. Status says 'if it disappears, this is what it looks like'

Apparently the messages if translated to English start off like your normal happy holidays messages and then start turning pretty morbid when everyone realises he was on the plane that just got shot down.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...21333.100003825135026&type=1&relevant_count=1
 
From FlightRadar24.com FB page:

9M-MRD first flight was on 17 July 1997. 9M-MRD crashed on 17 July 2014 when flying as MH17 exactly 17 years after first flight.

Due to earlier aircraft shootings airspace over eastern Ukraine was closed below 32,000 feet. MH17 was initially flying on 31,000 feet but climbed to 33,000 when entering Ukraine airspace.

As a consequence of the accident most airlines now have announced that they will fly another route to avoid this airspace.

There was another accident on 14 July 2007 of TAM airline in Brazil.
 
Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'un
So will the malaysian government get involved?
 
Saeed said:
Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'un
So will the malaysian government get involved?
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Malaysia should treat this as an act of war, but sadly they can't do anything about it. They even can't ask for compensation from the pro russian rebels.

Just hope that someone pays compensation to the victims' families.
 
Inna lillahi wa inna illaihi rajioon!

This is shocking! And will have massive reperccussions in the intl political system!

Thoughts and prayers with rhe deceased!
 
It is likely most passenger did not die on initial impact, one can imagine the terror they went through in the few minutes the plane took to fall to the ground
 
LongHorn said:
It is likely most passenger did not die on initial impact, one can imagine the terror they went through in the few minutes the plane took to fall to the ground
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Eye witness saying plane disintegrated in sky and people fell from sky like debris. They heard multiple blasts sound similar to shooting.
 
Malaysia Airlines is in serious trouble now. Wonder what the creditors will do to them.
 
Conversations amongst the rebels after plane was shot down

[utube]BbyZYgSXdyw[/utube]
 
CricketCartoons said:
Malaysia should treat this as an act of war, but sadly they can't do anything about it. They even can't ask for compensation from the pro russian rebels.

Just hope that someone pays compensation to the victims' families.
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Malaysia war against Russia even USA cant stand this war I mean it will be WW3 right here.
 
No distress signal received.

Probably shot down by the Russians.
 
Robert said:
Well, put it this way - in the early 1960s an American U2 at 90,000 feet was shot down by a Soviet SAM.
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SAMs are usually different to normal ground to air missiles but this one could be shot down by a SAM indeed.
 
Saqs said:
Only RIP to the Brits? What about everyone else?
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It's been reported on British news that nine Brits died and I live in Britain. No idea who else died, but I assume a lot of them were Malaysians so RIP to them as well.
 
BsyIx7RCMAAO-Q0.jpg:large

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/who-malaysia-plane-crash-victims-aids-_n_5597547.html
 
James said:
No distress signal received.

Probably shot down by the Russians.
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Why would Russia shoot down this plane?

The most likely scenario is the plane was hit by the Ukranian army. They previously shot down Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 in 2001. They denied this at first but had no choice to admit responsibility later.

Ukraine is also being defeated in the eastern parts, over the last few days the 'rebels' have made major gains. Within minutes the Ukranians were blaming them, clearly wanting to use this incident to demonise their enemy.

It is also possible Ukraine thought this was the plane of the Russian President as both are very similar looking and were travelling on the same route.

33.jpg

The ultimate blame must be with Nato, the worlds biggest warmongers who started the whole conflict in Ukraine to gain dominance over areas near Russia.
 
KingKhanWC said:
The most likely scenario is the plane was hit by the Ukranian army.
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Steady on there, the area where the missile was fired was rebel controlled territory. There also were no Air Force jets in the area and no surface-to-air systems being used against the rebels.

Ukraine is also being defeated in the eastern parts, over the last few days the 'rebels' have made major gains. Within minutes the Ukranians were blaming them, clearly wanting to use this incident to demonise their enemy.
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And within minutes the Russians were blaming Ukraine's government to demonise them - let's not indulge in a blame game when the facts haven't even been established yet.

The ultimate blame must be with Nato, the worlds biggest warmongers who started the whole conflict in Ukraine to gain dominance over areas near Russia.
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And surely you must accept every nation wants its sovereignty and independence, and the likes of Ukraine do not want to be a satellite state of the Kremlin ?

If the Ukrainian people wanted closer ties with the EU - then it is understandable as look at Poland who have joined the EU and have a GDP three times as big as Ukraine's.

No occupation or expansionism is right - Western, Russian, Chinese, Polish etc etc. Russia have sponsored and armed these separatists and Ukraine well within their rights to try to quell Russian expansionism into what is their territory. Ukraine is now a completely destabilised country in the midst of a civil war.
 
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Markhor said:
Steady on there, the area where the missile was fired was rebel controlled territory. There also were no Air Force jets in the area and no surface-to-air systems being used against the rebels.
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lol why would they use surface to air missiles against rebels who have no jets?

No area in Ukraine is totally controlled by the rebels, Ukranian army is strong enough to push into any area. Its very easy for the Ukranian army to shoot down any passenger planes over what is considered rebel territory.


And within minutes the Russians were blaming Ukraine's government to demonise them - let's not indulge in a blame game when the facts haven't even been established yet.
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The Ukranians were the first to respond, Russia didnt respond within minutes.

And surely you must accept every nation wants its sovereignty and independence, and the likes of Ukraine do not want to be a satellite state of the Kremlin ?

If the Ukrainian people wanted closer ties with the EU - then it is understandable as look at Poland who have joined the EU and have a GDP three times as big as Ukraine's.

No occupation or expansionism is right - Western, Russian, Chinese, Polish etc etc. Russia have sponsored and armed these separatists and Ukraine well within their rights to try to quell Russian expansionism into what is their territory. Ukraine is now a completely destabilised country in the midst of a civil war.
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A western/nato backed coup ousted the pro-russian government in Ukraine, that's how and who started this conflict. If Russia was to deploy weapons in Cuba would the yanks not get angry? It's not only the west who have the right to protect themselves from aggressive forces who meddle in their area.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Why would Russia shoot down this plane?

The most likely scenario is the plane was hit by the Ukranian army. They previously shot down Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 in 2001. They denied this at first but had no choice to admit responsibility later.

Ukraine is also being defeated in the eastern parts, over the last few days the 'rebels' have made major gains. Within minutes the Ukranians were blaming them, clearly wanting to use this incident to demonise their enemy.

It is also possible Ukraine thought this was the plane of the Russian President as both are very similar looking and were travelling on the same route.

View attachment 46853

The ultimate blame must be with Nato, the worlds biggest warmongers who started the whole conflict in Ukraine to gain dominance over areas near Russia.
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First post i agree with you- but then I am Russian symphathiser...

Though the Russian president theory is rubbish spin put by RT and the Russian Media- Putins plane would never fly over a war zone and an Ilyushin would never look like a 777 and not to mention the anti missile defences on the Russian prezs aircraft- Russians are paranoid about their security- having seen it first hand- if Putin was indeed flying over Ukraine it would be with an complete entourage of Su's
 
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Looks like an unfortunate and fatal case of mistaken identity. Usually well trained air defence crews can tell the difference between a civilian airliner and a military transport aircraft. What happened here is most likely some guerrilla fighters (from either side) without sophisticated training but using sophisticated weapons and without central command shot down an aircraft they thought was a transport. At 33,000 feet I doubt they would have even got a good visual, just a transponder on radar. Someone made the decision to shoot it down without fully verifying what it was.

The alternative (that someone, either in the Ukrainian or Russian military) saw it, knew what it was, and made a decision to shoot it down with the intent to provide bad press for the other side is almost too evil to contemplate.
 
KingKhanWC said:
lol why would they use surface to air missiles against rebels who have no jets?
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Indeed so why are you accusing the Ukrainian military of firing a weapon that wasn't even in the area ? Ukraine's air force can easily differentiate between civilian and military aircraft - one would assume a band of terrorists (which these 'rebels' are) could not.

The rebels themselves have shot down Ukrainian military aircraft in the last few months - who is to say that they mistook the Malaysian jet for a Ukrainian military aircraft ? Separatists themselves were quoted in Russian media last month saying they had acquired a long-range SA-11 BUK anti-aircraft system. These BUK missiles have a range of 72,000ft - the aircraft was flying at around 32,000ft.

No area in Ukraine is totally controlled by the rebels, Ukranian army is strong enough to push into any area. Its very easy for the Ukranian army to shoot down any passenger planes over what is considered rebel territory.
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You're overstating Ukrainian military strength and understating rebel military strength, the pro-Russian rebels have held the eastern region since the start of the conflict and forcibly seized government buildings in the east.

Increasingly sophisticated weaponry has appeared in separatist hands in recent weeks, including tanks, Grad multiple rocked launchers, and at least one tracked Strela-10 surface-to-air missile launcher which rebels said was responsible for downing the AN-26. This is not some ragtag army but a well-trained, Kremlin funded army that is terrorising eastern Ukraine and they have no right to be there.

A western/nato backed coup ousted the pro-russian government in Ukraine, that's how and who started this conflict.
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No that is not how it started.

Yanukovych - a Russian puppet refused to sign an EU Association Agreement that would have provided huge economic benefits to Ukraine in favour of Russian cash which lord knows where that would have ended up - most likely in the pockets of the pro-Russian oligarchs that ruled Ukraine for years. People rightfully protested as a result.

Ukraine's economic output could grow an additional 1 percent a year because of increased exports in goods and services, as well as more European investment in Ukraine. Ukrainian exporters will save almost 500 million euros a year because they no longer have to pay customs duties.

Putin didn't want it to happen as he still has imperialist pretensions in the area (which is just as condemnation-worthy as Western imperalism KKWC), threw a fit and has funded and armed an insurgency that has brought Ukraine to the point of ruin.

It's not only the west who have the right to protect themselves from aggressive forces who meddle in their area.
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Eastern Ukraine is NOT their area. It is Ukraine's area - and there was no aggression in Eastern Ukraine that provoked this Russian response.

The pro-Russian rebels seized govt buildings by force and held a farcical referendum to break away from Ukraine. No other country would tolerate such a thing.
 
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My goodness.

Like KAL 007 shot down by the Soviets in 1983 (269 civilians killed) and Iran Air 655 shot down by the US Navy in 1987 (290 civilians killed). In both those cases there was an element of pilot error, but the military should have checked more carefully before launching missiles.
 
There were some leading AIDS researchers and scientists on the flight, going to attend a conference on AIDS.
 
CricketCartoons said:
There were some leading AIDS researchers and scientists on the flight, going to attend a conference on AIDS.
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People out there are pointing this out the primary reason of the shooting. I doubt this.

In any case, it is humanity's loss.
 
Markhor said:
Indeed so why are you accusing the Ukrainian military of firing a weapon that wasn't even in the area ? Ukraine's air force can easily differentiate between civilian and military aircraft - one would assume a band of terrorists (which these 'rebels' are) could not.
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You mentioned there was none being used against the rebels, which was very strange since obviously there wouldn't be. I just found it funny.

It's not very difficult for the Ukrainian army to move in any surface to air missile systems into rebel territory in order to shoot down a passenger plane then blame the rebels. You seem to think the Ukranian army would never be behind such an act for some strange reason.



The rebels themselves have shot down Ukrainian military aircraft in the last few months - who is to say that they mistook the Malaysian jet for a Ukrainian military aircraft ? Separatists themselves were quoted in Russian media last month saying they had acquired a long-range SA-11 BUK anti-aircraft system. These BUK missiles have a range of 72,000ft - the aircraft was flying at around 32,000ft.
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I never suggested they didn't have the capability so need to point out common knowledge. It is possible but I don't believe the rebels are behind this as they were busy making serious advances in the recent days. The plane was also flying on the same route as the Russian Presidential plane, the rebels would have known this.


You're overstating Ukrainian military strength and understating rebel military strength, the pro-Russian rebels have held the eastern region since the start of the conflict and forcibly seized government buildings in the east.
Click to expand...

When the Ukrainian army has advanced with strength the rebels have fled many held areas. You need to catch up with events.



No that is not how it started.

Yanukovych - a Russian puppet
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Yanukovych won an election with 48.95% of the popular vote.


refused to sign an EU Association Agreement that would have provided huge economic benefits to Ukraine in favour of Russian cash which lord knows where that would have ended up - most likely in the pockets of the pro-Russian oligarchs that ruled Ukraine for years. People rightfully protested as a result.

Ukraine's economic output could grow an additional 1 percent a year because of increased exports in goods and services, as well as more European investment in Ukraine. Ukrainian exporters will save almost 500 million euros a year because they no longer have to pay customs duties.

Putin didn't want it to happen as he still has imperialist pretensions in the area (which is just as condemnation-worthy as Western imperalism KKWC), threw a fit and has funded and armed an insurgency that has brought Ukraine to the point of ruin.


Eastern Ukraine is NOT their area. It is Ukraine's area - and there was no aggression in Eastern Ukraine that provoked this Russian response.

The pro-Russian rebels seized govt buildings by force and held a farcical referendum to break away from Ukraine. No other country would tolerate such a thing.
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He was overthrown against the constitution by western backed fascists who are no better than Nazi's.

You should read some history, Kiev was a great city part of historic Russia for a long time. Russia has more rights in this area than the Nato does. The coup against and overthrow of Yanukovych was which started this conflict.
 
CricketCartoons said:
There were some leading AIDS researchers and scientists on the flight, going to attend a conference on AIDS.
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Top AIDS Researchers Killed in Malaysia Airlines Crash

About 100 people traveling to a global AIDS conference in Australia were on board the Malaysia Airlines flight that crashed and killed 298 people in eastern Ukraine, reports the Sydney Morning Herald.

The researchers, health workers and activists were on their way to the International AIDS Conference in Melbourne. Among the victims planning to attend was Dutch national Joep Lange, a top AIDS researcher and former International AIDS Society president. Briton Glenn Thomas, a spokesperson for the World Health Organization and a former BBC journalist, was also on flight MH17.

The International AIDS Society expressed sadness over the news that its colleagues were on the Malaysian jetliner.

“At this incredibly sad and sensitive time the IAS stands with our international family and sends condolences to the loved ones of those who have been lost to this tragedy,” the group said in a statement.

Friends and colleagues of those within the AIDS-research community, including UNAIDS executive director Michel Sidibé, also expressed shock and grief over the tragic deaths on Twitter.

While the medical field mourns the lives of those killed, experts like Associate Professor Brian Owler, federal president of the Australian Medical Association, also fear that breakthroughs in HIV/AIDS research will now be stalled.

“The amount of knowledge that these people who died on the plane were carrying with them and the experiences they had developed will have a devastating impact on HIV research,” Owler told TIME.

“The amount of time it takes to get to a stage where you can come up with those ideas cannot be replaced in a short amount of time. So it does set back work for a cure and strategic prevention of HIV/AIDS very significantly,” he said.
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http://time.com/3005215/ukraine-crash-missile/
 
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Are we to know for sure that this malaysian jet was not using the humans on board as human shields

Disgusting excuses aside, it's another tragedy for Malaysian airlines
 
Collateral damage if seen in the wider scheme of things as according to the theme of this thread.
 
How is U.S. even involved in this other than U.S. citizens being killed ruthlessly by terrorists?
 
Tera Gawaandi said:
Ukraine/USA has no morals, it's done maybe to show rebels in bad light.
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Of course, because the rebels aren't in a bad light already. Absurd argument for which you have ZERO evidence. You think Putin has morals too ? No country in the world has morals, especially the two major powers the US and Russia.

The west's call for sanctions right now are unnecessary as its unclear that despite Russia's funding of the rebels, we don't know how many of them they actually control. There are also some renegade Ukrainian troops fighting against the government. There needs to be a thorough investigation - but already evidence is being tampered with and moved around, ruining this investigation right from the start.
 
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Flight MH17 disaster: Sixth British victim named as loved ones grieve

SIX Britons among the nine killed on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 have been named, prompting heart-felt tributes from their devastated friends and family.

victimsB18july14-489657.jpg

Glenn Thomas, 49, a media officer at the World Health Organisation (WHO) in Geneva, was among 298 people killed when the Boeing 777-200 aircraft flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was apparently shot down over the war-torn Ukraine yesterday.

Leeds university student Richard Mayne, 20, and Newcastle United fans John Alder, 63, and Liam Sweeney, 28, have are also believed to have gone down with the doomed flight.

A fifth victim, Ben Pocock, of Bristol, in his early 20s, has been named by his family online.

The sixth Briton is understood to be rescue helicopter pilot Cameron Dalziel, 43, who had been sent to the Netherlands for a training exercise.

Four more Britons are known to have died in the crash, while up to 100 of those killed were reportedly delegates on their way to an international conference on Aids in Melbourne, Australia.

The Foreign Office took to Twitter this evening to reveal that 10 Britons had died in the MH17 crash.

They tweeted: "We can sadly confirm that 10 UK nationals lost their lives on flight #MH17. We offer their families & friends our very sincere condolences."

Paying tribute to Mr Thomas, WHO spokeswoman Fadela Chaib said: "I can confirm he was on the flight travelling to Australia to attend the Aids conference in Australia.

"For the time being we would like to give his family time to grieve. We have lost a wonderful person and a great professional. Our hearts are broken. We are all in shock."

Mr Thomas, a former BBC journalist, was reportedly from Blackpool. His twin sister was today said to be "totally torn up" by his death on the aircraft downed over the Ukraine.
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Moving tributes to the fallen if you follow the full link.
 
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