Sachin Tendulkar - The Ultimate Discussion

[Indian_Supporter]

Anwar looked much reassured than Tendulkar against McGrath in this innings and overall.

Are you serious now or trolling? Anwar is the only batsman who looked ugly in this innings. Desilva and Tenda on the other hand looked class apart.

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[Texaco]

Are you serious now or trolling? Anwar is the only batsman who looked ugly in this innings. Desilva and Tenda on the other hand looked class apart.

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Sorry I meant Desilva in this match, and Anwar in general.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Test matches he scored at 80 SR .. are you kidding ?

That year.

75 to be precise.

But many of his knocks were above 80 SR.

 

[TestMatch]

Test matches he scored at 80 SR .. are you kidding ?

Everyone knows 1998 was BEAST MODE Tendulkar year. He slammed the Aussies at home. Of course it was a fourth rate Aussie attack, but he did whip them hard with a 80ish strike rate. Pretty sure he smashed New Zealand too. He looked like a cricket ninja in 1998.

 

[rudra]

Between 1990 and 2000, SACHIN PROVED HIS AUTHORITY OVER LARA AND STEVE the great bowlers' FEARSOME years were as follows - McGrath (1995-2005), Warne(1993- 2006) , Donald ( 1992-2001 ), Waqar(upto 1998), Akram(upto 2000).
Lara Against Pakistan - upto 2005 ( avg 30, SRT 42 ), after 2005 ( avg 85, SRT 40 ). Against Australia - 1995 to 2005 ( avg 50, SRT 60 ) Against South Africa - 1992 -2001 ( avg 35, SRT 38 ), after 2001 ( avg 70, SRT 38)
So when the great bowlers were at their peak, SRT had a better record than Lara.

only in 2002-2006 lara overtook sachin ... we saw ponting at his peak 2001-2006 but still sachin and lara were a touch above him

 

[Titan of Technique]

The good thing about this thread is that those who post extra long rubbish to bring down Sachin haven't seen much cricket or don't have much knowledge about it.The smarter Pakistani fans who criticize SRT and for valid reasons don't need to post long BS.

 

[Asim2Good]

Sachin going strong at 118*
Well played, well played

 

[Feroz Rawther]

This post is mired in delusion

Sachin was a part time bowler who bowled to his potential. Anyone claiming otherwise is an insecure ******.

For a team like India which didn't have the greatest bowlers to begin with Sachin would have bowled a lot more and achieved more success with the ball if he was really upto any good

You point to so called magic deliveries which to be honest weren't really magic deliveries as such. But just to hi or you let's assume they were indeed magic deliveries. Even then it doesn't mean he had the requisite skill to be a good bowler on a consistent basis. Infact all it points to is his inconsistency and lack of control over his bowling that he could not reproduce those magic deliveries on a consistent enough basis to be deemed as being valuable for his bowling.

Clarke for eg also bowled some genius spells and brought famed Indian batting lineups to their knees on 2 occasions. However you don't see any one claiming that if he had put more effort on his bowling etc he would have ended up as a much better bowler. Because these were anomalies and one has to accept that. The thing with bowlers like Sachin or Clarke or others in this mould is that they are good change bowlers and help to meander the game along and once in a while they Might contribute with a great spell which you should take with both hands. But at no point should you make the mistake of thinking that this is something you can expect on a regular basis if the said player puts enough effort in training with regards to his bowling

'Delusion', insecure******' etc etc are not sensible responses to any posts.They are blind emotional words.It was not as to whether Indian bowling was great or not, rather it was as to whether Sachin was ready to put that extra effort in bowling & compromise on his batting longevity for the same or not. I didn't call those deliveries magical ones.but those 4 deliveries which i specified were calibre deliveries for sure. The amount of spin Sachin could impart from his wrists on those deliveries were really vast.Hence they turned so sharply in resulting in each of these dismissals.

If we check the bowling records of several 'good to great batsmen' we can see quite a few of them with not so bad stats like
Border,Desilva,Sachin,Clerke etc.But these no:S alone are not convincing enough to assess the calibre of them as bowlers in the long run.We have to realise that had they put more effort on their bowling skills they would definitely have become better bowlers depending on their bowling skills,duration of their batting careers etc etc .
I went thru one of the spells you mentioned of Clerke.Clerke was a left armer who relied more on fingers than wrists.
but since the discussion is w.r.t Sachin l am sticking to that only.It is crystal clear evident from the bowling clips of Sachin that he could use his wrists just like Warne(not comparing Sachin to Warne as bowlers) to generate sharp spin.
As per spin bowling guides a wrist spinner can generate much sharp turn than finger spinners.More over since Sachin started from such young age and straight away maintained very good bat avg: , he could easily have skipped a lot more unimportant matches than any other 'batsmen with bowling potential' and yet maintained descent enough batting longevity.At the same time he could have used that to build on his bowling skills to become a much better bowler too.

 

[Adijazz1706]

'Delusion', insecure******' etc etc are not sensible responses to any posts.They are blind emotional words.It was not as to whether Indian bowling was great or not, rather it was as to whether Sachin was ready to put that extra effort in bowling & compromise on his batting longevity for the same or not. I didn't call those deliveries magical ones.but those 4 deliveries which i specified were calibre deliveries for sure. The amount of spin Sachin could impart from his wrists on those deliveries were really vast.Hence they turned so sharply in resulting in each of these dismissals.

If we check the bowling records of several 'good to great batsmen' we can see quite a few of them with not so bad stats like
Border,Desilva,Sachin,Clerke etc.But these no:S alone are not convincing enough to assess the calibre of them as bowlers in the long run.We have to realise that had they put more effort on their bowling skills they would definitely have become better bowlers depending on their bowling skills,duration of their batting careers etc etc .
I went thru one of the spells you mentioned of Clerke.Clerke was a left armer who relied more on fingers than wrists.
but since the discussion is w.r.t Sachin l am sticking to that only.It is crystal clear evident from the bowling clips of Sachin that he could use his wrists just like Warne(not comparing Sachin to Warne as bowlers) to generate sharp spin.
As per spin bowling guides a wrist spinner can generate much sharp turn than finger spinners.More over since Sachin started from such young age and straight away maintained very good bat avg: , he could easily have skipped a lot more unimportant matches than any other 'batsmen with bowling potential' and yet maintained descent enough batting longevity.At the same time he could have used that to build on his bowling skills to become a much better bowler too.

Finger spinners have better control, you need to have great control as a wrist spinner to succeed. Sachin would have to focus a lot more on his bowling to even be as good as someone like Afridi. Look at all the top spinners in the last 5 years or so, most if not all of them are offspinners who spin with their fingers except Afridi, Bishoo, Yasir and Badree.

 

[Texaco]

Between 1990 and 2000, SACHIN PROVED HIS AUTHORITY OVER LARA AND STEVE the great bowlers' FEARSOME years were as follows - McGrath (1995-2005), Warne(1993- 2006) , Donald ( 1992-2001 ), Waqar(upto 1998), Akram(upto 2000).
Lara Against Pakistan - upto 2005 ( avg 30, SRT 42 ), after 2005 ( avg 85, SRT 40 ). Against Australia - 1995 to 2005 ( avg 50, SRT 60 ) Against South Africa - 1992 -2001 ( avg 35, SRT 38 ), after 2001 ( avg 70, SRT 38)
So when the great bowlers were at their peak, SRT had a better record than Lara.

only in 2002-2006 lara overtook sachin ... we saw ponting at his peak 2001-2006 but still sachin and lara were a touch above him

Huh.. Whatever. We all saw against Pakistan how he never got going.

 

[EliteCynical]

The good thing about this thread is that those who post extra long rubbish to bring down Sachin haven't seen much cricket or don't have much knowledge about it.The smarter Pakistani fans who criticize SRT and for valid reasons don't need to post long BS.

Fair point.

 

[street cricketer]

Come on dosto..

Together, We can make it to 10,000!

 

[Asim2Good]

Come on dosto..

Together, We can make it to 10,000!

another milestone for Sachin and Pakistani fans are happy to contribue in it

 

[street cricketer]

another milestone for Sachin and Pakistani fans are happy to contribue in it

Pakistani fans have more claim to this milestone than the Indian fans

 

[Slog]

'Delusion', insecure******' etc etc are not sensible responses to any posts.They are blind emotional words.It was not as to whether Indian bowling was great or not, rather it was as to whether Sachin was ready to put that extra effort in bowling & compromise on his batting longevity for the same or not. I didn't call those deliveries magical ones.but those 4 deliveries which i specified were calibre deliveries for sure. The amount of spin Sachin could impart from his wrists on those deliveries were really vast.Hence they turned so sharply in resulting in each of these dismissals.

If we check the bowling records of several 'good to great batsmen' we can see quite a few of them with not so bad stats like
Border,Desilva,Sachin,Clerke etc.But these no:S alone are not convincing enough to assess the calibre of them as bowlers in the long run.We have to realise that had they put more effort on their bowling skills they would definitely have become better bowlers depending on their bowling skills,duration of their batting careers etc etc .
I went thru one of the spells you mentioned of Clerke.Clerke was a left armer who relied more on fingers than wrists.
but since the discussion is w.r.t Sachin l am sticking to that only.It is crystal clear evident from the bowling clips of Sachin that he could use his wrists just like Warne(not comparing Sachin to Warne as bowlers) to generate sharp spin.
As per spin bowling guides a wrist spinner can generate much sharp turn than finger spinners.More over since Sachin started from such young age and straight away maintained very good bat avg: , he could easily have skipped a lot more unimportant matches than any other 'batsmen with bowling potential' and yet maintained descent enough batting longevity.At the same time he could have used that to build on his bowling skills to become a much better bowler too.

So Clarke could have been an ATG bowler by this logic if only be bad put enough effort...

 

[Slog]

The whole difference between great bowlers and mediocre part timers are that great bowlers have the ability to bowl the good deliveries regularly and more importantly when they want. Also they have enough skill to decide what to bowl when. That's why Sachin was a part timer due to his lack of understanding of bowling compared to some greats

 

[Romali_rotti]

lol now ppl are crying about SRT the bowler, when in the world did the thread take such a strange twist ????????

 

[cr7great]

Sachin the ultimate God

 

[Feroz Rawther]

Finger spinners have better control, you need to have great control as a wrist spinner to succeed. Sachin would have to focus a lot more on his bowling to even be as good as someone like Afridi. Look at all the top spinners in the last 5 years or so, most if not all of them are offspinners who spin with their fingers except Afridi, Bishoo, Yasir and Badree.

Shane warne was a wrist spinner and he emerged as the greatest spin bowler of all time surpassing several finger spinners.i accept with the point that it is difficult to be a successful wrist spinner than a fingure spinner in the long run
because it takes more effort and hard work for a raw talent wrist spinner to be successful than that of a raw talent fingure spinner.But we can't deny the fact that Sachin had superb raw talent as a wrist spinner.Those 4 deliveries i specified are enough for me to be sure about the large amount of spin Sachin could generate from his wrists and shoulders.So to have more hard work on that raw talent and then emerge at around 40 avgas that of Shastri) was not out of the equation for him , had he made a compromise on his batting longevity.And i stick to my point.

 

[Asif khan]

lol now ppl are crying about SRT the bowler, when in the world did the thread take such a strange twist ????????

Lol actually the opposite. Some are trying to make out to be a potentially great spinner if only he worked at the art. There's hero worship and then there's Sachin worship.

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[Slog]

lol now ppl are crying about SRT the bowler, when in the world did the thread take such a strange twist ????????

No one is crying

Just giving delusional fans a reality check

What next? Failed leader Sachin would have been the greatest captain of all time if only he'd put his mind to it?

 

[Slog]

Sachin the ultimate God

What about Asif then who he bowed down to in Karachi?

 

[Mamoon]

Michael Clarke was more talented with the ball than Sachin ever was.

Indians should agree. After all, he produced the greatest spell of spin bowling by an overseas spinner in India in living memory.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

No one is crying

Just giving delusional fans a reality check

What next? Failed leader Sachin would have been the greatest captain of all time if only he'd put his mind to it?

as i earlier said accusing some one of 'being delusional' is not the sensible way
to counter messages. I am one of those who has followed Sachin's career right from the start to the fag end. I have seen him on occasions breaking
huge partnerships when other regular bowlers have failed. Having the ability
to generate huge spin of your wrists is a great raw talent.And it is based on
that combined with Sachin's unparallel longevity in batting that i made
my conclusion that he would have been a much succesful spin bowler in the long run.Some people are seen bringing Clerke,Afridi etc here.Well they may or may not have emerged as better spin bowlers than Sacin depending on their talent,spare time available to work on their talent, attitude etc etc.But that is entirely another topic to discuss. Sachin for sure would have emerged with much better success in Sastri's mould as a spinner.Accusing me of 'being delusional' is not going to change that.

 

[Slog]

as i earlier said accusing some one of 'being delusional' is not the sensible way
to counter messages. I am one of those who has followed Sachin's career right from the start to the fag end. I have seen him on occasions breaking
huge partnerships when other regular bowlers have failed. Having the ability
to generate huge spin of your wrists is a great raw talent.And it is based on
that combined with Sachin's unparallel longevity in batting that i made
my conclusion that he would have been a much succesful spin bowler in the long run.Some people are seen bringing Clerke,Afridi etc here.Well they may or may not have emerged as better spin bowlers than Sacin depending on their talent,spare time available to work on their talent, attitude etc etc.But that is entirely another topic to discuss. Sachin for sure would have emerged with much better success in Sastri's mould as a spinner.Accusing me of 'being delusional' is not going to change that.

but there is neither facts nor any precedence to back this fantasy view

Sachin didnt work any harder (if you claim so) on his bowling than he did because he knew what his limitations are and how further could he have progressed in that field. It was a smart decision on his part. Bowling a few rippers and breaking some big partnerships is not a sign or indication of any consistent, long term success. His reputation of being a part timer was exactly why many batsmen didnt take his bowling seriously on occassions and lost wickets in pursuit of cheap runs as it so happens. If you analyze his career, any period where he bowled with a bit more regularity conceded poor returns.

 

[Slog]

in fact stats back this view expressed above

Years or series where Sachin bowled more overs than normal are years where he ended up with the worst average and strike rate because he was no longer being used as a shock option and neither a part time option bowling a few overs who batsmen were looking to just get quick runs of.

Any time where he bowled enough to be treated as a serious bowler, he usually did poorly compared to his overall record

in ODIs in games he bowled he averaged 5 overs a game which is certainly not a low number of overs and his record backs that

 

[street cricketer]

What about Asif then who he bowed down to in Karachi?

Lol why do you get annoyed whenever the topic of Sachin comes up

 

[Slog]

Lol why do you get annoyed whenever the topic of Sachin comes up

Shehzadians, Afridiots and Sachinistas annoy me to no end for different reasons.

 

[FreePalestine]

If Kohli plays 370+ ODI games, he might just have more ODI hundreds than the great man! I guess in the age of T20, it is unlikely he will play that many or be able to sustain his excellence over such a long period.

 

[street cricketer]

Shehzadians, Afridiots and Sachinistas annoy me to no end for different reasons.

Imranistas, Amiristas?

Lately Kohli has been joining the group too in pp

 

[Feroz Rawther]

in fact stats back this view expressed above

Years or series where Sachin bowled more overs than normal are years where he ended up with the worst average and strike rate because he was no longer being used as a shock option and neither a part time option bowling a few overs who batsmen were looking to just get quick runs of.

Any time where he bowled enough to be treated as a serious bowler, he usually did poorly compared to his overall record

in ODIs in games he bowled he averaged 5 overs a game which is certainly not a low number of overs and his record backs that

he knew what his limitations are and how further could he have progressed in that field. It was a smart decision on his part".-Thru this statement you are claiming as if you knew 100% for sure as to what Sachin's thought process was w.r.t developing his bowling talent in the long run.To be frank we are not sure about this,
More over your stats (year wise and series wise trends even if they are true) are only a reflection of what actually happend
with 'Sachin the part time bowler' in the long run.

What i was informing about was as to how he would have developed into a fine bowler if he worked on his great talent.more over i cannot accept your claims w.r.t those 4 wkts(those of Moin.Yousuf,Warne & Kirsten) being credited to the casual approach of batsmen.If you believe so, so be it. But i simply can't.And i base my claims on these 4 dismissals.

 

[par]

 

[Bhaijaan]

View attachment 66433

Eagerly looking forward to this.

 

[street cricketer]

Happy 43rd birthday Little Master

 

[Hitman]

Happy Birthday, little 'GENIUS'!

Happy 43th Birthday, Sachin. God bless!

 

[Hitman]

Apparently, the great man spent the day playing cricket with school kids in Mumbai -

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ool-children-in-Mumbai/videoshow/51963811.cms

 

[Tusker]

Happy Runashtami to all cricket lovers

 

[Robert]

I can't actually recall ever seeing Tendulkar bat, other that a test innings when he was 16.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I can't actually recall ever seeing Tendulkar bat, other that a test innings when he was 16.

Good.

Now we can ignore your negative reviews of him, havign never actually seen him bat.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Happy bday to the most special cricketer to have graced the game. Thank You Sir for existing.

 

[Tusker]

I can't actually recall ever seeing Tendulkar bat, other that a test innings when he was 16.

Ohh dear !!

 

[Hasan123]

Why is Sachin Tendulkar being called overrated?

One thing I have seen since I joined Pakpassion is fans call Sachin ovverated. I can't understand this. The guy represented his country for 2 decades and had the pressure and responsibility of being the main batsman for majority of his career. So of course there will be times where he struggled and conditions where he didn't have the best record, there is still no need to call him ovverated. A lot of the best bowlers who bowled at Sachin have said how difficult it was to bowl to him and how much of a challenge it was.

IMO he's the greatest batsmen I have ever seen and I respect him for playing for so long, for his record.I don't think I could call him ovverated ever, there are other players who are more ovverated than Sachin. So let's be respectful to one of the greats this wonderful game has seen.

 

[Mamoon]

1. He is Indian

2. He is far, far better than any batsman produced by Pakistan

3. Jealously is normal human behavior.

 

[Hasan123]

1. He is Indian

2. He is far, far better than any batsman produced by Pakistan

3. Jealously is normal human behavior.

Yhh there good reasons. Still it's called the gentlemans game, Sachin conducted himself well on the field also he was rarely involved in controversy, and he had respect for opponents. Combine that with his record he's certainly in top 3 batsman ever. IMO the greatest I have seen

 

[Mobashir]

He is overrated because his fans call him the best "without any doubt". When clearly that's not the case.

If you talk about ODI's, his mediocre records in Australia, South Africa, England away. How can the best ODI batsman ever without the shadow of doubt fail continuously against these countries in their conditions?

It can't be random failure as there are over 60 innings over 20 years, 3 countries.

Ad to this the fact that till we had a good attack (1990's) he scored 30 runs in Pakistan in 4 innings and you can see that he was officially a failure while playing away against good fast bowling.

There is no problem for a batsman of his calibre to have his average down to 38 and Sr down to 75-80 in some countries away, but in Australia it is 30 with SR of 70, in South Africa it is 25, SR of 65... Overtime he will tour to South Africa you will think this time around he will do well but he fails again and again.

Failed in two consecutive world cup finals too.

Every batsman has his flows, Ponting, Lara, ABDV, KP etc so no one is the undisputed number 1.
In ODI's, Ponting's record is by a distance the one witch less flows but these Tendulkar fans will not even look at it or discuss it because they are jealous that other batsmen are as good or even better than Tendulkar.

 

[hussain123]

It is the infallibility and putting him on "god" like pedestral that make him ridiculously overrated.he is one of the greatest batsman the world has seen,not the greatest and for sure isn't the god of batting.

 

[jusarrived]

He is overrated because his fans call him the best "without any doubt". When clearly that's not the case.

If you talk about ODI's, his mediocre records in Australia, South Africa, England away. How can the best ODI batsman ever without the shadow of doubt fail continuously against these countries in their conditions?

It can't be random failure as there are over 60 innings over 20 years, 3 countries.

Ad to this the fact that till we had a good attack (1990's) he scored 30 runs in Pakistan in 4 innings and you can see that he was officially a failure while playing away against good fast bowling.

There is no problem for a batsman of his calibre to have his average down to 38 and Sr down to 75-80 in some countries away, but in Australia it is 30 with SR of 70, in South Africa it is 25, SR of 65... Overtime he will tour to South Africa you will think this time around he will do well but he fails again and again.

Failed in two consecutive world cup finals too.

Every batsman has his flows, Ponting, Lara, ABDV, KP etc so no one is the undisputed number 1.
In ODI's, Ponting's record is by a distance the one witch less flows but these Tendulkar fans will not even look at it or discuss it because they are jealous that other batsmen are as good or even better than Tendulkar.

you are the first person who claims that Tendulkar is a failure in SA , England or SA . you seem to use this argument against every Indian batsmen . Have you ever watched a cricket match live on a Television ? Do you know the record of other SC batsmen in these countries ? The two WC final failures , do you realize he was one of biggest reasons India reached those finals ? if there are 10 criteria's to rate a batsmen , Tendulkar ticks more points than the likes of AB , Lara , Ponting or KP . Thats why hes rated above these batsmen
And conveniently you only talk about ODI records now ?

 

[jusarrived]

Tendulkar imo is far from overrated , for me hes the only complete batsmen we have seen with not one obvious weakness in technique , definition of talent , amazing temperament , there is nothing he could do , he had the game to play like AB one day and Dravid the other day , but may only problem with him he chose a conservative approach & lacked the killer instinct we see from likes of Virat these days ..in short he could have won a lot more matches for India than he actually did & offcourse his fans are annoying which does not help , not his fault though.

 

[Pete Rose]

I don't overrate him. But I am pretty clear he is footnote when it comes to Pakistan vs India across all formats. Barring that semifinal in South Africa.

 

[Mobashir]

you are the first person who claims that Tendulkar is a failure in SA , England or SA .

His record speaks for itself.
In ODI's away in Australia he has 30 innings with average of 30 and SR of 70.
In SA vs SA average of 25 with SR of 65.

If that's not a failure, what it is?

you seem to use this argument against every Indian batsmen . Have you ever watched a cricket match live on a Television ? Do you know the record of other SC batsmen in these countries ?

I have probably watched more cricket than you. I know the record of most these asian batsmen in those countries and it goes against them and it's the reason why none of them is the undisputed number one in the world.

The two WC final failures , do you realize he was one of biggest reasons India reached those finals ? if there are 10 criteria's to rate a batsmen , Tendulkar ticks more points than the likes of AB , Lara , Ponting or KP . Thats why hes rated above these batsmen

That's what you think, we do not have to agree with you.

And conveniently you only talk about ODI records now ?

I'm talking about ODI's because I think this thread has been made after some discussion in the thread: GO BAT witch is about ODI batting.

 

[Pete Rose]

Tendulkar imo is far from overrated , for me hes the only complete batsmen we have seen with not one obvious weakness in technique , definition of talent , amazing temperament , there is nothing he could do , he had the game to play like AB one day and Dravid the other day , but may only problem with him he chose a conservative approach & lacked the killer instinct we see from likes of Virat these days ..in short he could have won a lot more matches for India than he actually did & offcourse his fans are annoying which does not help , not his fault though.

I don't think he was a complete batsman but he was the best of his era. He had to cut out his driving in 2004 to finally score some runs against Australia. And for a while Pakistan had his number by getting him to cut deliveries to close to him to be caught at covers repeatedly.
His career is in two parts: he scored a lot and India did not win much till about 2004. Post 2004 he scored a lot and India started winning as well when he played with a new generation of cricketers in his team who were unwilling to cowered.

 

[mz123]

rahul dravid was better than tendulkar

 

[Buffet]

SRT & AB, both are are overrated in PP. Overrated hardly means that they are/were not gun. It simply means that both are getting elevated to level they don't belong.

Anyone saying that SRT is easily/undisputed the best batsman in history - Overrating him.

Anyone saying that AB is easily/surely the best 2-3 ODI batsman in history - Overrating him.

 

[Mobashir]

SRT & AB, both are are overrated in PP. Overrated hardly means that they are/were not gun. It simply means that both are getting elevated to level they don't belong.

Anyone saying that SRT is easily/undisputed the best batsman in history - Overrating him.

Anyone saying that AB is easily/surely the best 2-3 ODI batsman in history - Overrating him.

This I agree.

 

[Hasan123]

Tendulkar imo is far from overrated , for me hes the only complete batsmen we have seen with not one obvious weakness in technique , definition of talent , amazing temperament , there is nothing he could do , he had the game to play like AB one day and Dravid the other day , but may only problem with him he chose a conservative approach & lacked the killer instinct we see from likes of Virat these days ..in short he could have won a lot more matches for India than he actually did & offcourse his fans are annoying which does not help , not his fault though.

I agree with this

 

[Hasan123]

SRT & AB, both are are overrated in PP. Overrated hardly means that they are/were not gun. It simply means that both are getting elevated to level they don't belong.

Anyone saying that SRT is easily/undisputed the best batsman in history - Overrating him.

Anyone saying that AB is easily/surely the best 2-3 ODI batsman in history - Overrating him.

Okay but you can deny Sachin is in the top 5 batsmen of all time

 

[Ab Fan]

The one who is hyped a lot by his fans is generally being called overrated as they try to go deeper into their stats and start finding their minor flaws and when they get that they bash them to another level for that.

You know what it does help more if you don't have annoying fans praising a player every time.

 

[Chrish]

I wonder how Lara would be rated if he were Indian

 

[anuk]

probably because of his lack of impact in test matches. one of the greatest compilers but u would look elsewhere if u wanted a guy to bat for a win or a draw.

 

[Buffet]

Okay but you can deny Sachin is in the top 5 batsmen of all time

I am not denying that. He will be in my all time world XI in both formats, but you can still be overrated despite being in the top 5.

A very few batsmen have done well in both formats and SRT is probably the top 2-3 in both formats. That's a huge point, but he still has competition. Viv was inferior to him in one and superior to him in another format in my opinion, but he was at the same level. Saying that SRT is easily/surely the best in history is an absurd statement. I am just using Viv as an example because he played and did well in both formats. I am not even going to talk about Bradman or anyone else who happen to play only one format.

Easily/surely kind of hyperbole is absurd when he has a clear competition.

 

[Hasan123]

I am not denying that. He will be in my all time world XI in both formats, but you can still be overrated despite being in the top 5.

A very few batsmen have done well in both formats and SRT is probably the top 2-3 in both formats. That's a huge point, but he still has competition. Viv was inferior to him in one and superior to him in another format in my opinion, but he was at the same level. Saying that SRT is easily/surely the best in history is an absurd statement. I am just using Viv as an example because he played and did well in both formats. I am not even going to talk about Bradman or anyone else who happen to play only one format.

Easily/surely kind of hyperbole is absurd when he has a clear competition.

I haven't seen viv play that's why I said he's the greatest batsmen I have seen. I have been watching cricket for 11 years. Guy had to carry pressure and responsibility for 2 decades he can't pe perfect in everything. Played quality knock in odi cricket yet some people still call him ovverated in that format

 

[Abhilash93]

Many young posters have not seen him bat in the 90s in Tests. (I have also watched most of those innings on Youtube). The way he uppercut Donald for sixes in SA is a breathtaking sight.

 

[Sachin136]

I am not denying that. He will be in my all time world XI in both formats, but you can still be overrated despite being in the top 5.

A very few batsmen have done well in both formats and SRT is probably the top 2-3 in both formats. That's a huge point, but he still has competition. Viv was inferior to him in one and superior to him in another format in my opinion, but he was at the same level. Saying that SRT is easily/surely the best in history is an absurd statement. I am just using Viv as an example because he played and did well in both formats. I am not even going to talk about Bradman or anyone else who happen to play only one format.

Easily/surely kind of hyperbole is absurd when he has a clear competition.

Apart from Viv, who can compete with Sachin over both formats?

 

[pacesensation]

That was the 1998 Sachin.

The Invincible Sachin.

Test matches, he scored (at 80 SR or something).

ODIs, he scored.

Smashed ATG bowlers, he did.

Setting targets he did.

Chasing he did.

Performed in finals, he did.

Single handedly won games for his side, he did.

lol.

Failed in aus odis ...check
Failed in scoring match winning innings in sa against sa (series wins)...check
Averages low than lara in eng(90s) ......check


Its simple......hes overrated and sachin definitely not the greatest of all time

 

[Tusker]

I am not denying that. He will be in my all time world XI in both formats, but you can still be overrated despite being in the top 5.

A very few batsmen have done well in both formats and SRT is probably the top 2-3 in both formats. That's a huge point, but he still has competition. Viv was inferior to him in one and superior to him in another format in my opinion, but he was at the same level. Saying that SRT is easily/surely the best in history is an absurd statement. I am just using Viv as an example because he played and did well in both formats. I am not even going to talk about Bradman or anyone else who happen to play only one format.

Easily/surely kind of hyperbole is absurd when he has a clear competition.

He has "competition" from Viv only if some obvious things are overlooked .. like having had to face the best bowlers the game has **EVER** seen for faaaar longer than Viv's entire career. Or a 19 year peak that fetched him 14K runs at almost 59avg over 164 tests. How can anyone say that rating a batsmen with such achievements as the best ever amounts to hyperbole ?

 

[Chrish]

He has "competition" from Viv only if some obvious things are overlooked .. like having had to face the best bowlers the game has **EVER** seen for faaaar longer than Viv's entire career. Or a 19 year peak that fetched him 14K runs at almost 59avg over 164 tests. How can anyone say that rating a batsmen with such achievements as the best ever amounts to hyperbole ?

Does not wearing helmet while batting makes no difference?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Does not wearing helmet while batting makes no difference?

Does not facing great spinners make no difference?

 

[Chrish]

Does not facing great spinners make no difference?

Who says Viv didn't face any decent spinners?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Who says Viv didn't face any decent spinners?

There is a diff between decent and great.

Name 3 great spinners of the 80s.and Vivs record againist them.Thank you.

 

[Suleiman]

If you want an opinion on SRT it's best to ask a neutral fan from England, Aus, etc. Pakistanis and Indians will (in general) give you one extreme or the other.

Having said that, I consider him a 2 top threat in ODIs, 2nd best ODI batsman ever.

In tests it's a tougher tussle between him and Lara, harder to rank him there, he'll probably be top 5 for sure though.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

If you want an opinion on SRT it's best to ask a neutral fan from England, Aus, etc. Pakistanis and Indians will (in general) give you one extreme or the other.

Having said that, I consider him a 2 top threat in ODIs, 2nd best ODI batsman ever.

In tests it's a tougher tussle between him and Lara, harder to rank him there, he'll probably be top 5 for sure though.

If greatest of all greats Sir Don Bradman considered him as next best after him...not sure why you need mere fans certificate. I can only laugh when people compares Viv or Lara with Sachin.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Chrish]

There is a diff between decent and great.

Name 3 great spinners of the 80s.and Vivs record againist them.Thank you.

Ever heard of Underwood, Bedi, Prasanna or Qadir? Go look at their cricinfo profile. They might not be "great" but they were pretty decent spinners actually.

Viv being weakling against spin is bit of myth based on his struggle against Chandra in his debut match.. Playing spin might not be his biggest strength but he certainly was no bunny

 

[Suleiman]

If greatest of all greats Sir Don Bradman considered him as next best after him...not sure why you need mere fans certificate. I can only laugh when people compares Viv or Lara with Sachin.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Bradman is the greatest batsman ever, no one said he is the greatest analyst ever. That's like applying the same logic as if a player is a GOAT he will automatically be a great coach and be able to raise future ATGS after him... not necessarily true. Just because you are a legend of the game, doesn't automatically make your word and action law in everything related to the game.

In any case, sports and entertainment runs on the fans' interests. If a legend would just pass judgement, then there would be no point having "who is the best of all time" discussions in any sport let alone cricket, because legends would just past blanket statements and that will make all discussions obsolete whether it be Messi v Ronaldo or LeBron v Kobe or whoever, obviously doesn't work that way.

But like I said, you have to take opinion on SRT by an Indian or Pakistani with a grain of salt, ofc you can apply the same to me.

Neutral opinions I've heard of him usually sound more balanced as to not overrating him beyond belief, nor undermining him given his ATG status.

 

[Chrish]

If greatest of all greats Sir Don Bradman considered him as next best after him...
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He never considered him as such.. All he said was he bats like him. It's a compliment.

It means nothing more, nothing less

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ever heard of Underwood, Bedi, Prasanna or Qadir? Go look at their cricinfo profile. They might not be "great" but they were pretty decent spinners actually.

Viv being weakling against spin is bit of myth based on his struggle against Chandra in his debut match.. Playing spin might not be his biggest strength but he certainly was no bunny

Viv played the great Indian spinners at the fag end of their career.All of them retired in 70s end.They were finished by the time Viv had that series in late 70s vs India.

Viv struggled agsinist Qadir the only world class spinner he faced through out the 80s and most of his career.One of the reasons why Viv had struggled againist Pakistan.

Viv definately wasnt a good player of spin he struggled againist them.

 

[Chrish]

Viv played the great Indian spinners at the fag end of their career.All of them retired in 70s end.They were finished by the time Viv had that series in late 70s vs India.

Viv struggled agsinist Qadir the only world class spinner he faced through out the 80s and most of his career.One of the reasons why Viv had struggled againist Pakistan.

Viv definately wasnt a good player of spin he struggled againist them.

Stats shows otherwise.. Viv maintains healthy average in matches involving Abdul Qadir

Also he slaughtered Underwood whose average is close to Warne

In fact Viv never really struggled against any spinner other than Chandra in his debut match. Later on he wrote into his biography that Chandra was the toughest bowler he faced and he was having doubt about his ability to play international Cricket. But in 2nd match he scored 192 not out (Chandra was gone) and he regained his confidence

Anyways your assumption is based on fallacy

 

[pillionrider]

Bradman is the greatest batsman ever, no one said he is the greatest analyst ever.

Here's a revered analyst who actually watched the two players and not just through cricket forums.

 

[Chrish]

Here's a revered analyst who actually watched the two players and not just through cricket forums.

You will find several people who consider other players superior

Dickie Bird for ex chose Viv, Chappell and Sobers in his all time XI over Sachin and Dickie too has seen all the players from 50s and onward

They are neither right or wrong. It's a matter of preference.

 

[Suleiman]

Here's a revered analyst who actually watched the two players and not just through cricket forums.

Again you're getting defensive. So basically anyone on this forum who challenges the stance that SRT is the greatest ever, #1, in ODIs and Tests has been watching cricket through forums alone?

What about the analysts who consider Viv and/or Lara superior in one format or the other, why leave them out? Or do we have to go with the assumption that all analysts unanimously agree that he is the undisputed #1?

As I said sports runs on a fans' demands, and whether you like it or not each individual fan is responsible for his or her own opinion of a given player. There is nothing you can do to enforce the stance on every cricket fan in the world that Sachin IS the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be... because for quite a few of them, he wasn't.

Interesting thing is that I haven't even talked smack about him or undermined him. I clearly stated he is the top 2 in ODIs and in tests he'd AT LEAST be in the top 5, if not higher. How someone can get sensitive over such a statement just highlights the oversensitivity of some of his fans and honestly proves my point in my initial post.

 

[pillionrider]

Hold back bud.

It was an informative post. Not trying to convert you

Regarding the forum comment, it wasn't directed at you. I haven't followed your posts to make such a judgement. It was directed at a couple of my buddies here who know who they are.