Sacking Mickey Arthur has been a blessing for Karachi Kings & PSL!

[Hawkeye]

Mickey Arthur, for the past 4 PSL seasons, stuck like stubborn glue to Karachi Kings. Starting 2016, he kept coaching and leading Karachi Kings into the ground and out of PSL all those four years.

Nothing was working for KK.

They had to do something. And they did: fired Mickey Arthur. This has worked wonders for them till now, and KK has put up a decent show in the tournament.

Even though they haven't won the title yet this year, but judging from the excitement KK fans have, it seems their team has done better than all the last 4 years combined.

Tomorrow is the semi-final, let's see what KK can do!

Can they finally reach *the final* for once?! They haven't qualified for any PSL final till now.

 

[Savak]

Agreed with the OP, Islamabad United should take note and sack Misbah effectively to prepare for next season.

 

[Hawkeye]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION], as for your post - the person responsible for winning 40% of all PSL (i.e. 2 out of 5 tournament wins) - I know who I'll take my chances with.

When you've already won almost half of all the PSL titles, I can forgive one bad season.

But - certainly can't forgive having a 100% losing record, and on top of that, not even reaching the final.

Let's hope they reach the final.

 

[Abdullah719]

OK, a lot to unpack here.

Firstly, Karachi Kings have a mixed record in PSL. They had a terrible first season, but after that, they were usually in the playoffs. They were just terrible at the playoff matches.

They won 5 games this year, which is the same number of wins as in PSL 3 and 4. In PSL 2, they also won half of the matches (4 out of 8). So nothing new really - we just need to see whether they have gotten over their weakness in knockouts as that is what they've struggled with.

So, it's established that so far, results haven't been too dissimilar to previous seasons.

---------------------

Now, a related topic. OP and Dean Jones

When Dean Jones was coach of Islamabad United:

Dean Jones has been absolutely amazing with ISLU.

To saying that Dean Jones wasn't calling the shots (when he was removed by IU):

Dean Jones never was the one calling the shots.

To nominating Dean Jones as the second-worst coach in the league when he joined Karachi Kings:

1. Aqib Javed (Lahore)
2. Dean Jones (Karachi)

And now, when KK have made the playoffs, brother Hawkeye hasn't made any mention of Dean Jones.

If Dean Jones makes the final or wins it, does he get any credit? And if KK loses (as they have previously in the playoffs), does that mean that Mickey Arthur may not have been the problem with the franchise?

 

[Hawkeye]

[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] - I'm just going by how happy our KK fans are.

It's good to see them happy - yes they haven't really reached the final yet like all the previous editions of PSL.

BUT, it does appear that their combination this year might just get them into the final.

Why?

The gamble for them that worked is Sharjeel. He won them the match vs. IU and will most likely take them to the final this year. This was a good pick and certainly Dean gets the credit for making this call.

 

[CricketingMinds]

OK, a lot to unpack here.

Firstly, Karachi Kings have a mixed record in PSL. They had a terrible first season, but after that, they were usually in the playoffs. They were just terrible at the playoff matches.

They won 5 games this year, which is the same number of wins as in PSL 3 and 4. In PSL 2, they also won half of the matches (4 out of 8). So nothing new really - we just need to see whether they have gotten over their weakness in knockouts as that is what they've struggled with.

So, it's established that so far, results haven't been too dissimilar to previous seasons.

---------------------

Now, a related topic. OP and Dean Jones

When Dean Jones was coach of Islamabad United:



To saying that Dean Jones wasn't calling the shots (when he was removed by IU):



To nominating Dean Jones as the second-worst coach in the league when he joined Karachi Kings:



And now, when KK have made the playoffs, brother Hawkeye hasn't made any mention of Dean Jones.

If Dean Jones makes the final or wins it, does he get any credit? And if KK loses (as they have previously in the playoffs), does that mean that Mickey Arthur may not have been the problem with the franchise?

Hahahahaha EXPOSED! Love it!

 

[Hawkeye]

So from tomorrow, we will have 2 outcomes:

1. KK qualifies for the final

2. KK gets knocked out.

[MENTION=137997]Abdullah[/MENTION]u719, please help me understand.

If situation 1 happens, will that mean the Deano gamble worked? (I think yes, Sharjeel being the trump card)

If situation 2 happens, will that mean Deano did as bad as Mickey Arthur?

 

[Abdullah719]

[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] - I'm just going by how happy our KK fans are.

It's good to see them happy - yes they haven't really reached the final yet like all the previous editions of PSL.

BUT, it does appear that their combination this year might just get them into the final.

Why?

The gamble for them that worked is Sharjeel. He won them the match vs. IU and will most likely take them to the final this year. This was a good pick and certainly Dean gets the credit for making this call.

Sharjeel has played a part in a couple of games but the form of Hales and the bowlers in the past few games has been important too.

I think the lower-scoring pitches may have also suited them in Karachi because their less pacy attack can take advantage of that.

Without Hales, I'm not sure they can win back to back knockout games in batting shootouts (Lahore has produced mostly high scores), so I don't see them winning unless either Sharjeel or Babar fire.

 

[Savak]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION], as for your post - the person responsible for winning 40% of all PSL (i.e. 2 out of 5 tournament wins) - I know who I'll take my chances with.

When you've already won almost half of all the PSL titles, I can forgive one bad season.

But - certainly can't forgive having a 100% losing record, and on top of that, not even reaching the final.

Let's hope they reach the final.

Responsible? The last PSL, Misbah was injured and a passenger. Second Dean Jones was in charge. Knowing you, Misbah can have a 200% losing record, you will still forgive him and lobby for him.

 

[The_Odd_One]

KK losing consistently under Mickey despite having the best T-20 batsman, bowler, and all-rounder from the country has no excuse.

 

[Hawkeye]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] so the most powerful person Misbah who calls all the shots as per posters here wasn't in charge of their victories? Ok, cool story. Now let's get back on topic.

 

[Syed1]

OK, a lot to unpack here.

Firstly, Karachi Kings have a mixed record in PSL. They had a terrible first season, but after that, they were usually in the playoffs. They were just terrible at the playoff matches.

They won 5 games this year, which is the same number of wins as in PSL 3 and 4. In PSL 2, they also won half of the matches (4 out of 8). So nothing new really - we just need to see whether they have gotten over their weakness in knockouts as that is what they've struggled with.

So, it's established that so far, results haven't been too dissimilar to previous seasons.

---------------------

Now, a related topic. OP and Dean Jones

When Dean Jones was coach of Islamabad United:



To saying that Dean Jones wasn't calling the shots (when he was removed by IU):



To nominating Dean Jones as the second-worst coach in the league when he joined Karachi Kings:



And now, when KK have made the playoffs, brother Hawkeye hasn't made any mention of Dean Jones.

If Dean Jones makes the final or wins it, does he get any credit? And if KK loses (as they have previously in the playoffs), does that mean that Mickey Arthur may not have been the problem with the franchise?

OMG this is the most systematic destruction of a poster I've seen in years. Completely demolished

 

[Hawkeye]

Sharjeel has played a part in a couple of games but the form of Hales and the bowlers in the past few games has been important too.

I think the lower-scoring pitches may have also suited them in Karachi because their less pacy attack can take advantage of that.

Without Hales, I'm not sure they can win back to back knockout games in batting shootouts (Lahore has produced mostly high scores), so I don't see them winning unless either Sharjeel or Babar fire.

Alright, so as per you KK has done as bad as how they did under Mickey Arthur.

Let's see if they can overcome the influence of Arthur and get to the final this time!

 

[Abdullah719]

So from tomorrow, we will have 2 outcomes:

1. KK qualifies for the final

2. KK gets knocked out.

[MENTION=137997]Abdullah[/MENTION]u719, please help me understand.

If situation 1 happens, will that mean the Deano gamble worked? (I think yes, Sharjeel being the trump card)

If situation 2 happens, will that mean Deano did as bad as Mickey Arthur?

I don't think there was any gamble with picking Sharjeel, Deano knows him very well and is aware of his capabilities. As did Mickey, he was a big fan and supporter of his (even for the longer formats) until he got banned.

If situation two happens, it depends on the nature of the loss. Either KK will choke or LQ will be too good. And yes, that will mean that Mickey and Deano had similar results, because previously they also made the knockouts and fell short of the final.

 

[Hawkeye]

KK losing consistently under Mickey despite having the best T-20 batsman, bowler, and all-rounder from the country has no excuse.

There is one excuse.

People are saying this year Karachi has done as bad as they used to do under Mickey Arthur. They have the same no. of wins.

So, there has been no improvement.

I wonder if that will change if they're able to reach the final.

 

[Savak]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] so the most powerful person Misbah who calls all the shots as per posters here wasn't in charge of their victories? Ok, cool story. Now let's get back on topic.

Lol, i love how selectively you have given zero credit to Dean Jones for winning two titles with IU when he was their head coach and have given hundred percent blame to Mickey Arthur for KK's fortunes. Why not blame the KK's captain during all this time?

 

[Abdullah719]

Lol, i love how selectively you have given zero credit to Dean Jones for winning two titles with IU when he was their head coach and have given hundred percent blame to Mickey Arthur for KK's fortunes. Why not blame the KK's captain during all this time?

This is the crux of the matter.

I asked this before as well. If Mickey gets the blame for Karachi Kings' fortunes, then shouldn't he also get credit for Pakistan's fortunes in T20Is? And shouldn't Misbah be blamed for Pakistan and Islamabad United's fortunes in T20 cricket over the past year?

We have to be consistent in our application of the blame game.

 

[The_Odd_One]

There is one excuse.

People are saying this year Karachi has done as bad as they used to do under Mickey Arthur. They have the same no. of wins.

So, there has been no improvement.

I wonder if that will change if they're able to reach the final.

Which only proves that Mickey was nothing special. If someone like Dean Jones, with no significant coaching experience, can outperform him, then Mickey was an average coach.

 

[sshakir411]

Yet Hawkeye voted for Dean Jones as one the worst coaches of PSL5. Same coach that led his Islamabad United to far better results in the last few PSLs. Logic gone down the drain.

 

[The_Odd_One]

This is the crux of the matter.

I asked this before as well. If Mickey gets the blame for Karachi Kings' fortunes, then shouldn't he also get credit for Pakistan's fortunes in T20Is? And shouldn't Misbah be blamed for Pakistan and Islamabad United's fortunes in T20 cricket over the past year?

We have to be consistent in our application of the blame game.

Because KK did not get a chance to beat the likes of Zimbabwe and West Indies a million times. No wonder, Mickey produced better results in T-20 internationals than in PSL. The opposition was often under-strength for Mickey in T20 internationals but he did not get the same luxury in PSL where teams were more evenly matched and the playing conditions were similar for all teams.

 

[Abdullah719]

Because KK did not get a chance to beat the likes of Zimbabwe and West Indies a million times. No wonder, Mickey produced better results in T-20 internationals than in PSL. The opposition was often under-strength for Mickey in T20 internationals but he did not get the same luxury in PSL where teams were more evenly matched and the playing conditions were similar for all teams.

West Indies are two-time T20 World Cup champions.

Pakistan under Mickey Arthur played 2 of 37 T20Is against Zimbabwe.

12 of those 37 matches were against New Zealand and Australia, and Pakistan won 10.

 

[The_Odd_One]

West Indies are two-time T20 World Cup champions.

Pakistan under Mickey Arthur played 2 of 37 T20Is against Zimbabwe.

12 of those 37 matches were against New Zealand and Australia, and Pakistan won 10.

The West Indies in W-T20s is a totally different team than the West Indies of bilateral T20Is.

Australian team was missing Warner, Starc, and Cummins.

New Zealand had already won 6 games in a row (5 ODIs and a T-20) and could not keep the same intensity in the last two games.

Mickey just collected cheap wins which had no importance.

 

[ManFan]

The West Indies in W-T20s is a totally different team than the West Indies of bilateral T20Is.

Australian team was missing Warner, Starc, and Cummins.

New Zealand had already won 6 games in a row (5 ODIs and a T-20) and could not keep the same intensity in the last two games.

Mickey just collected cheap wins which had no importance.

Excuses and more excuses.

Is Misbah then an even worse coach for allowing Sri Lanka to whitewash Pakistan in Pakistan in 2019?

 

[ManFan]

OK, a lot to unpack here.

Firstly, Karachi Kings have a mixed record in PSL. They had a terrible first season, but after that, they were usually in the playoffs. They were just terrible at the playoff matches.

They won 5 games this year, which is the same number of wins as in PSL 3 and 4. In PSL 2, they also won half of the matches (4 out of 8). So nothing new really - we just need to see whether they have gotten over their weakness in knockouts as that is what they've struggled with.

So, it's established that so far, results haven't been too dissimilar to previous seasons.

---------------------

Now, a related topic. OP and Dean Jones

When Dean Jones was coach of Islamabad United:



To saying that Dean Jones wasn't calling the shots (when he was removed by IU):



To nominating Dean Jones as the second-worst coach in the league when he joined Karachi Kings:



And now, when KK have made the playoffs, brother Hawkeye hasn't made any mention of Dean Jones.

If Dean Jones makes the final or wins it, does he get any credit? And if KK loses (as they have previously in the playoffs), does that mean that Mickey Arthur may not have been the problem with the franchise?

Brutal.

 

[Khan12]

OK, a lot to unpack here.

Firstly, Karachi Kings have a mixed record in PSL. They had a terrible first season, but after that, they were usually in the playoffs. They were just terrible at the playoff matches.

They won 5 games this year, which is the same number of wins as in PSL 3 and 4. In PSL 2, they also won half of the matches (4 out of 8). So nothing new really - we just need to see whether they have gotten over their weakness in knockouts as that is what they've struggled with.

So, it's established that so far, results haven't been too dissimilar to previous seasons.

---------------------

Now, a related topic. OP and Dean Jones

When Dean Jones was coach of Islamabad United:



To saying that Dean Jones wasn't calling the shots (when he was removed by IU):



To nominating Dean Jones as the second-worst coach in the league when he joined Karachi Kings:



And now, when KK have made the playoffs, brother Hawkeye hasn't made any mention of Dean Jones.

If Dean Jones makes the final or wins it, does he get any credit? And if KK loses (as they have previously in the playoffs), does that mean that Mickey Arthur may not have been the problem with the franchise?

This is complete owanage. Have some mercy on the poor fellow his master crashed out just the other day.

 

[Khan12]

West Indies are two-time T20 World Cup champions.

Pakistan under Mickey Arthur played 2 of 37 T20Is against Zimbabwe.

12 of those 37 matches were against New Zealand and Australia, and Pakistan won 10.

Another one bites the dust. Another brutal response. You are on fire today. Seems like you are on a mission of exposing PP experts with their idiotic agendas.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

OK, a lot to unpack here.

Firstly, Karachi Kings have a mixed record in PSL. They had a terrible first season, but after that, they were usually in the playoffs. They were just terrible at the playoff matches.

They won 5 games this year, which is the same number of wins as in PSL 3 and 4. In PSL 2, they also won half of the matches (4 out of 8). So nothing new really - we just need to see whether they have gotten over their weakness in knockouts as that is what they've struggled with.

So, it's established that so far, results haven't been too dissimilar to previous seasons.

---------------------

Now, a related topic. OP and Dean Jones

When Dean Jones was coach of Islamabad United:



To saying that Dean Jones wasn't calling the shots (when he was removed by IU):



To nominating Dean Jones as the second-worst coach in the league when he joined Karachi Kings:



And now, when KK have made the playoffs, brother Hawkeye hasn't made any mention of Dean Jones.

If Dean Jones makes the final or wins it, does he get any credit? And if KK loses (as they have previously in the playoffs), does that mean that Mickey Arthur may not have been the problem with the franchise?

NSFW - Rated R for brutality, this post. Investigative journalism of the highest order. Respecc

 

[The_Odd_One]

Excuses and more excuses.

Is Misbah then an even worse coach for allowing Sri Lanka to whitewash Pakistan in Pakistan in 2019?

Misbah was very unlucky that both Shehzad and Akmal failed miserably against SL. Fakhar and Asif were disastrous. Sarfraz was as usual useless. Even Babar was below par. A coach can’t do anything if the players do not perform.

 

[Forum363]

OK, a lot to unpack here.

Firstly, Karachi Kings have a mixed record in PSL. They had a terrible first season, but after that, they were usually in the playoffs. They were just terrible at the playoff matches.

They won 5 games this year, which is the same number of wins as in PSL 3 and 4. In PSL 2, they also won half of the matches (4 out of 8). So nothing new really - we just need to see whether they have gotten over their weakness in knockouts as that is what they've struggled with.

So, it's established that so far, results haven't been too dissimilar to previous seasons.

---------------------

Now, a related topic. OP and Dean Jones

When Dean Jones was coach of Islamabad United:



To saying that Dean Jones wasn't calling the shots (when he was removed by IU):



To nominating Dean Jones as the second-worst coach in the league when he joined Karachi Kings:



And now, when KK have made the playoffs, brother Hawkeye hasn't made any mention of Dean Jones.

If Dean Jones makes the final or wins it, does he get any credit? And if KK loses (as they have previously in the playoffs), does that mean that Mickey Arthur may not have been the problem with the franchise?

The way in which you articulated your points without being insulting is extremely commendable. Brilliant post.

It is almost wasted on [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] who’s actual reply was ‘they might have done the same but I’m just going by how happy the KK fans are’.

 

[Forum363]

Misbah was very unlucky that both Shehzad and Akmal failed miserably against SL. Fakhar and Asif were disastrous. Sarfraz was as usual useless. Even Babar was below par. A coach can’t do anything if the players do not perform.

Extremely unlucky that he called two rubbish cricketers out of nowhere and they surprisingly flopped and he had to drop them after a couple of innings.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Extremely unlucky that he called two rubbish cricketers out of nowhere and they surprisingly flopped and he had to drop them after a couple of innings.

Let’s not pretend that most of our fans did not want Akmal in T20s. Some even wanted him for the ODI World Cup. Shehzad looked much fitter and hungry for success. It was only natural to try them to fill the batting slots left by Hafeez and Malik. They got their chance and then rightly dropped by Misbah.

 

[ads101]

No one improved under Mickey really. The players who succeeded, had success at the beginning of their career, and once they played more games, they got found out. Coaching is supposed to prevent that, players simply just got worse. And lucky he had Babar Azam who is arguably Pakistan's biggest talent ever, hyped up since 14 and would have performed with anyone as coach. Him constantly failing with the Karachi Kings was embarrassing really given how strong they were, yet he was just given a free pass.

We really should have given Dean Jones head coach, with Misbah given assistant coach or chief selector. There was a working system in place in IU, which could have worked in international cricket. Instead we took a risk appointing a coach with few qualifications and with a poor captaincy LOI record.

Now Dean Jones is finding success with KK, and Misbah is failing with IU, I sincerely hope it wasn't mainly Dean Jones who was the brains behind IU, because if it was, we have made a massive mistake appointing Misbah over him.

 

[Hawkeye]

Because KK did not get a chance to beat the likes of Zimbabwe and West Indies a million times. No wonder, Mickey produced better results in T-20 internationals than in PSL. The opposition was often under-strength for Mickey in T20 internationals but he did not get the same luxury in PSL where teams were more evenly matched and the playing conditions were similar for all teams.

Mickey Arthur had one formula for the fake #1 rankings.

Rely on Malik and Hafeez to bash the depleted teams.

As soon as they were dropped, we started losing. When they were called back in T20s, we started winning.

But the same crowd got angry at recalling Malik and Hafeez in T20s -- forgetting that it was the Mickey formula to use them and gain that fake T20I ranking.

 

[Hawkeye]

Extremely unlucky that he called two rubbish cricketers out of nowhere and they surprisingly flopped and he had to drop them after a couple of innings.

Umar is a top T20 cricketer.

And, T20 is a fun format, all for experimentation.

Mickey Arthur had one formula - play Malik and Hafeez to keep that T20 ranking. Now they are back and we're winning again in T20s. You must be happy!

But I'm afraid this fake ranking formula will not lead us to much success at the international level.

 

[Hawkeye]

I don't think there was any gamble with picking Sharjeel, Deano knows him very well and is aware of his capabilities. As did Mickey, he was a big fan and supporter of his (even for the longer formats) until he got banned.

If situation two happens, it depends on the nature of the loss. Either KK will choke or LQ will be too good. And yes, that will mean that Mickey and Deano had similar results, because previously they also made the knockouts and fell short of the final.

So either both are the same, or Mickey Arthur's dark era will become history tomorrow if KK qualifies.

Cool.

They've still played better cricket under Deano than the previous years, and for me it already is an upgrade over that darkness.

Even if they don't qualify for the final tomorrow, they can tweak minor stuff and become better next year, get to the final.

 

[Forum363]

Let’s not pretend that most of our fans did not want Akmal in T20s. Some even wanted him for the ODI World Cup. Shehzad looked much fitter and hungry for success. It was only natural to try them to fill the batting slots left by Hafeez and Malik. They got their chance and then rightly dropped by Misbah.

Only the ridiculous brainless fans wanted Akmal and Shehzad recalled. The same ones who want Kami to be recalled now.

It is absolutely not natural for them to fill the batting slots. Shehzad is an opener. Umar Akmal is a lower order batsman with terrible fitness. They are not replacements for Malik / Hafeez.

So basically they deserved a chance but a couple of games is enough to ‘rightly’ drop them if they haven’t performed.