Saeed Ajmal - A legacy that was destroyed by ICC itself

[Major]

After Aamir and Asif were banned, Pakistan were suddenly lacking bowlers who could take charge. Bowlers who could be bought into the attack to change the tides of the innings.

Suddenly, the whole responsibility of taking wickets at crucial points in matches was thrown on Saeed Ajmal shoulders. Whenever the match would be tiding away in the oppositions favors, Afridi or Misbah will throw the ball towards Ajmal, and the guy would make magic happen.

Although, Pakistani fans enjoy watching fast bowling more, but Saeed Ajmal made spin bowling very entertaining. You knew the moment the ball was in Ajmal's hands you were going to have a big celebrating act in any moment.

Misbah, Afridi and Hafeez, who served as captains during Ajmal's career had to be careful to when to use Ajmal as he was the only main strike bowler. Ajmals influence in the Pakistani bowling was soo much that it was once believed amongest fans that without Ajmal Pakistan couldn't register the wins it had achieved during his playing days.

It is to be noted that when Ajmal came into international cricket, his bowling was reported immediately, however, he was given clearance after he was tested at an ICC accredited Bowling test center. Thus, any wickets he took afterwards deemed to be legal as ICC had passed his bowling action.

Ajmal kept enjoying success with Pakistan and was a guy who was liked by every Pakistani. Even his interviews in english(idone) were watched with enjoyment and everyone loved his character.

Soon, Ajmal's legacy and fame was to be destroyed. Out of the blue, ICC decided to change its test procedures. Whats interesting to note is that the measurements were still the same, but the procedures had changed. Ajmal and many bowlers ended up failing the test and were deemed to have illegal actions. Meaning that they were chucking.

Well it is quite well known that Ajmal and so many other off spinners did chuck. It was clearly evident with the naked eye, but it was the ICC's fault for allowing this to happen. They created this monster. But all of sudden changing the rules wasn't the answer. This way they ended up destroying reputations and legacy of many players.

After Ajmal came back with a remodeled action, he wasn't the same. Soon, his figure as being the magician or a legendary bowler was destroyed.
It is to be noted that had Muralitharan been bowling today, he too would had failed under current testing procedures. But he was never tested on the current procedure, thus his legacy wasn't destroyed.

Before ICC took a hard stance on chucking, they should had given ultimatums to every the off spinners. Ajmal should had been given an ultimatum to retire quietly before the banning could take place. Atleast this way, he legacy would never had been tarnished.

Today if you ask people who Ajmal was, people will remember him as that chucker. But only few of us will remember that he was the go to man when Pakistan was in trouble and needed a breakthrough.

 

[CanadianG00se]

After Aamir and Asif were banned, Pakistan were suddenly lacking bowlers who could take charge. Bowlers who could be bought into the attack to change the tides of the innings.

Suddenly, the whole responsibility of taking wickets at crucial points in matches was thrown on Saeed Ajmal shoulders. Whenever the match would be tiding away in the oppositions favors, Afridi or Misbah will throw the ball towards Ajmal, and the guy would make magic happen.

Although, Pakistani fans enjoy watching fast bowling more, but Saeed Ajmal made spin bowling very entertaining. You knew the moment the ball was in Ajmal's hands you were going to have a big celebrating act in any moment.

Misbah, Afridi and Hafeez, who served as captains during Ajmal's career had to be careful to when to use Ajmal as he was the only main strike bowler. Ajmals influence in the Pakistani bowling was soo much that it was once believed amongest fans that without Ajmal Pakistan couldn't register the wins it had achieved during his playing days.

It is to be noted that when Ajmal came into international cricket, his bowling was reported immediately, however, he was given clearance after he was tested at an ICC accredited Bowling test center. Thus, any wickets he took afterwards deemed to be legal as ICC had passed his bowling action.

Ajmal kept enjoying success with Pakistan and was a guy who was liked by every Pakistani. Even his interviews in english(idone) were watched with enjoyment and everyone loved his character.

Soon, Ajmal's legacy and fame was to be destroyed. Out of the blue, ICC decided to change its test procedures. Whats interesting to note is that the measurements were still the same, but the procedures had changed. Ajmal and many bowlers ended up failing the test and were deemed to have illegal actions. Meaning that they were chucking.

Well it is quite well known that Ajmal and so many other off spinners did chuck. It was clearly evident with the naked eye, but it was the ICC's fault for allowing this to happen. They created this monster. But all of sudden changing the rules wasn't the answer. This way they ended up destroying reputations and legacy of many players.

After Ajmal came back with a remodeled action, he wasn't the same. Soon, his figure as being the magician or a legendary bowler was destroyed.
It is to be noted that had Muralitharan been bowling today, he too would had failed under current testing procedures. But he was never tested on the current procedure, thus his legacy wasn't destroyed.

Before ICC took a hard stance on chucking, they should had given ultimatums to every the off spinners. Ajmal should had been given an ultimatum to retire quietly before the banning could take place. Atleast this way, he legacy would never had been tarnished.

Today if you ask people who Ajmal was, people will remember him as that chucker. But only few of us will remember that he was the go to man when Pakistan was in trouble and needed a breakthrough.

Hows that ICC's fault? If anything ICC should be applauded for upholding the laws of cricket. Cricket has no place for chuckers. The reason why most fans remember Ajmal as chucker is because his bowling action was over 2x the legal limit. Thats balant chucking(cheating).

 

[Major]

Hows that ICC's fault? If anything ICC should be applauded for upholding the laws of cricket. Cricket has no place for chuckers. The reason why most fans remember Ajmal as chucker is because his bowling action was over 2x the legal limit. Thats balant chucking(cheating).

Shoukd had read the whole thing i wrote for a reason.
Ajmal might be chucking, but by icc tests and procedures he was cleared.

Thus, anything after that was icc responsibility.

Iff icc was gonna change procedures and be more strict then it should had given an ultamatum to ajmal. Becuase it was his career who they were playing witg.

 

[Plumb]

Don't completely agree with ajmal story.. People evolve, organizations evolve, changes the way how they operate, so same way ICC changed and evolve in order to bring changes to the game. If that's the case would Wasim/Waqar been this successful if the 2 new balls rule was there back then? sometimes rules give you advantage and sometimes it hurts. As long as rules were followed properly to every team/player its fine.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Shoukd had read the whole thing i wrote for a reason.
Ajmal might be chucking, but by icc tests and procedures he was cleared.

Thus, anything after that was icc responsibility.

Iff icc was gonna change procedures and be more strict then it should had given an ultamatum to ajmal. Becuase it was his career who they were playing witg.

Nobody cares about the legacy of a chucker, a chucker doesn't deserve to have any legacy, and he was a liar too, he lied about his accident. ICC did the right thing, they should've gone one step ahead and erased all of his records too.

 

[Major]

Don't completely agree with ajmal story.. People evolve, organizations evolve, changes the way how they operate, so same way ICC changed and evolve in order to bring changes to the game. If that's the case would Wasim/Waqar been this successful if the 2 new balls rule was there back then? sometimes rules give you advantage and sometimes it hurts. As long as rules were followed properly to every team/player its fine.

you are absolutely right. People evolve, organisations do evolve. But here you need to give ab ultimatum to the concern party. You dont just throw in new rules in there face. Confront them about it. Tell me this is going to happen and this will affect you this way.

If Ajmal was given an ultimatum to just retire, then it would had been ok.

Thing is, Pakistan suffered at the 2015 world cup. This whole thing took place suddenly, and as both ajmal and hafeez were banned, Pakistan had no idea what to do witht he 2015 world cup coming up.

This was as stupid as the 2011 world cup 2.5m pitch rule

 

[Major]

Nobody cares about the legacy of a chucker, a chucker doesn't deserve to have any legacy, and he was a liar too, he lied about his accident. ICC did the right thing, they should've gone one step ahead and erased all of his records too.

again, legally you cannot call him a chucker as he was cleared by ICC itself

 

[CanadianG00se]

again, legally you cannot call him a chucker as he was cleared by ICC itself

When he was cleared his action was legal. But his action detoriated and he started (knowingly or unknowingly) chucking and was called again only to found him bending his arm over 40degress(limit is 15).
Just because someone was once cleared before doesnt change the fact that he was later caught chucking.

anyways, do you have any proof that his action when he was banned was same as before when he was cleared?

 

[Major]

When he was cleared his action was legal. But his action detoriated and he started (knowingly or unknowingly) chucking and was called again only to found him bending his arm over 40degress(limit is 15).
Just because someone was once cleared before doesnt change the fact that he was later caught chucking.

anyways, do you have any proof that his action when he was banned was same as before when he was cleared?

His action didnt detoriated.

It was the same as before.

What change were the strictness in implementing rules

 

[CricFan2012]

What legacy does Murali have? He is a chucker in the eyes of many who want to keep the game as fair as possible.

Ajmals brought shame to our country like Amir once did, made the many series we won under him seem cheated.

Keep the game fair.

You wouldn't want a Messi on steroids scoring goals, same applies to cricket. Chucker's success can be compared to using steroids, unfair advantage.

 

[CanadianG00se]

His action didnt detoriated.

It was the same as before.

What change were the strictness in implementing rules

again do u have a source to back it up?

Eitherway, If ICC was too lenient before and then change in administration enforced the rules more strictly then its actually good for cricket world, we all want cheats to kept away from game and allow deserving player to be selected.

Once again ill say Ajmal's 40 degree bending was main reason why cricket world have developed reputation of him being a chucker. There are other bowlers (Hafeez, Shane Shillingford, Senanayke) who were caught with new rule and some even remodelled the action successfully. I don't see fans calling them "Chucker".
Another reason why most fans(including me) who dislike Ajmal is for his off field behaviour when he was caught. Instead of going back to academy and work on his actions, he cried in media for conspiracy against him by Big 3 and what not.

IMO, its Ajmal who destroyed his own legacy and not ICC.

 

[Major]

What legacy does Murali have? He is a chucker in the eyes of many who want to keep the game as fair as possible.

Ajmals brought shame to our country like Amir once did, made the many series we won under him seem cheated.

Keep the game fair.

You wouldn't want a Messi on steroids scoring goals, same applies to cricket. Chucker's success can be compared to using steroids, unfair advantage.

again how did he bought shame when he was bowling legally? HIs action was icc approved, so you could challenge him to court, he will still be legal.

Sure in reality he was chucking, but then why allow it in the first place. You allow him in the first place, you allow the guys legacy to be made. But if you want to change something, why not do it in a process instead of doing it suddenly.

THe sudden change of testing procedures not only affected Ajmal but it also affected Pakistan in the 2015 world cup.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

again, legally you cannot call him a chucker as he was cleared by ICC itself

That's like saying a robber should get to keep all the wealth he stole before the police decided to finally act and caught him. Just because the police was incompetent before and didn't catch him before doesn't make the wealth he stole before being caught as legal.

 

[Major]

again do u have a source to back it up?

Eitherway, If ICC was too lenient before and then change in administration enforced the rules more strictly then its actually good for cricket world, we all want cheats to kept away from game and allow deserving player to be selected.

Once again ill say Ajmal's 40 degree bending was main reason why cricket world have developed reputation of him being a chucker. There are other bowlers (Hafeez, Shane Shillingford, Senanayke) who were caught with new rule and some even remodelled the action successfully. I don't see fans calling them "Chucker".
Another reason why most fans(including me) who dislike Ajmal is for his off field behaviour when he was caught. Instead of going back to academy and work on his actions, he cried in media for conspiracy against him by Big 3 and what not.

IMO, its Ajmal who destroyed his own legacy and not ICC.

logic.

if ajmal was banned because his action detrioted, then many other bowlers would had never been banned.

The fact that a greater percentage of bowlers were suddenly banned(including hafeez) is prrof that ICC become strict with its way of conducting test and sticking to the regulations.

you are not understand what im trying to say here. Im not saying the changes in rules are bad.

WHat im saying is how the changes in rules need to be introduced!!!!!!!!!!!

Ajmal could had been given an ultimatum. ICC should had also informed boards about it aswell, so that something could had been done. Infact, the right time to do this cleansing was right after a world cup, not 2 or an year before a world cup.

I remember back in 2015, harris sohail was being tested out as we needed a 5th bowling option after hafeez also suffering the ban

 

[Major]

That's like saying a robber should get to keep all the wealth he stole before the police decided to finally act and caught him. Just because the police was incompetent before and didn't catch him before doesn't make the wealth he stole before being caught as legal.

Again, why cant you not understand that ICC itself deemed it legal

when ICC has given you a sheet of paper saying that your action is legal, why bother arguing about his deliveries.

 

[badsha001]

Ajmal should have retired the moment he was called for chucking instead of milking PCB for more money... Ajmal destroyed his own legacy.

 

[CricFan2012]

That's like saying a robber should get to keep all the wealth he stole before the police decided to finally act and caught him. Just because the police was incompetent before and didn't catch him before doesn't make the wealth he stole before being caught as legal.

This.

Starting to think that the ICC was afraid of backlash from pakistani fans thus quietly let Ajmal chuck, he should have been stopped earlier, but this is the same ICC that is corrupt in some facets like many other sports councils.

This whole chucking thing was a farce, I really hope Pakistan plays it clean from here after the Champions trophy wins. One more player from team that is proven a fixer again or chucking and I am done with this team.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Again, why cant you not understand that ICC itself deemed it legal

when ICC has given you a sheet of paper saying that your action is legal, why bother arguing about his deliveries.

And ICC was incompetent before, and he does get to keep his record doesn't he? Since ICC deemed it legal before, they didn't erase his record, now did they? So he should consider himself lucky and thank the gods that he got to steal so much before finally getting caught

 

[ExpressPacer]

Potw man

 

[Hitman]

What really annoys me is his blatant lying. According to him he suffered an accident and due to his deformity from that accident he couldn't bowl with a completely clean action. It was not possible for him. And when he was banned, he suddenly started bowling with a completely clean action.

 

[CanadianG00se]

logic.

if ajmal was banned because his action detrioted, then many other bowlers would had never been banned.

The fact that a greater percentage of bowlers were suddenly banned(including hafeez) is prrof that ICC become strict with its way of conducting test and sticking to the regulations.

you are not understand what im trying to say here. Im not saying the changes in rules are bad.

WHat im saying is how the changes in rules need to be introduced!!!!!!!!!!!

Ajmal could had been given an ultimatum. ICC should had also informed boards about it aswell, so that something could had been done. Infact, the right time to do this cleansing was right after a world cup, not 2 or an year before a world cup.

I remember back in 2015, harris sohail was being tested out as we needed a 5th bowling option after hafeez also suffering the ban

I did mentioned that ICC in old days were incompetent and couldnt enforce chucking rules. But post Big 3, new administration decided enough is enough, and started enforcing rules.
I remember in Asia cup 2014 Ashwin was balantly chucking not to gain advantage but to bring to the attention of ICC that some bowlers are getting away with chucking. If Ajmal was smart, he should've got the message and shouldve worked on his action, but he continued with chucking and was caught.

ICC responsibility is to ban chuckers not warn them beforehand. Its the responsibility of PCB to test the bowling action of its bowlers periodically to prevent Ajmal like scenario.

You're only blaming ICC for doing their job.

 

[Major]

Ajmal should have retired the moment he was called for chucking instead of milking PCB for more money... Ajmal destroyed his own legacy.

Ajmal did not know that such procedures would be inplace.

In hindsight its easy to say all this, but think about it

At that time, AJmal knew he was passed by ICC so he thought he could probably again. But this time ICC didn't bother to inform that it was changing its testing procedures

 

[ToeCrusher2]

And Btw ajmal got plenty of time to save his "so called" legacy before being caught. He wasn't the first bowler to get called for chucking, so he knew that ICC was cracking down on chuckers, Vaughn tweeted his bowling action, raising doubts over it, even broad comment on his action, so he got plenty of hints before getting caught that action against him was about to be taken, but he should no intelligence and continued chucking and thus got caught.

 

[Major]

This.

Starting to think that the ICC was afraid of backlash from pakistani fans thus quietly let Ajmal chuck, he should have been stopped earlier, but this is the same ICC that is corrupt in some facets like many other sports councils.

This whole chucking thing was a farce, I really hope Pakistan plays it clean from here after the Champions trophy wins. One more player from team that is proven a fixer again or chucking and I am done with this team.

backlash from fans???

Organisations dont care about fans brother.

If fans were cared about then we would be having international cricket in Pakistan because thats what fans want.

 

[Major]

And ICC was incompetent before, and he does get to keep his record doesn't he? Since ICC deemed it legal before, they didn't erase his record, now did they? So he should consider himself lucky and thank the gods that he got to steal so much before finally getting caught

again you go on about stealing and getting caught etc.

The guy could legally go to court and show a paper saying that according to an ICC test what he was doing was well within the rights and legalities what he did from that point until he had to face another test many years later.

I understand that you are trying your hard to make ajmal look bad by such analogies, but like i said, ICC had him cleared. Now you could call it incompetent or whatever, what he did was legal accoriding to the icc.

 

[Major]

What really annoys me is his blatant lying. According to him he suffered an accident and due to his deformity from that accident he couldn't bowl with a completely clean action. It was not possible for him. And when he was banned, he suddenly started bowling with a completely clean action.

big deal. everybody lies.

I would lie to save my career, anyone else would also do it.

 

[Major]

I did mentioned that ICC in old days were incompetent and couldnt enforce chucking rules. But post Big 3, new administration decided enough is enough, and started enforcing rules.
I remember in Asia cup 2014 Ashwin was balantly chucking not to gain advantage but to bring to the attention of ICC that some bowlers are getting away with chucking. If Ajmal was smart, he should've got the message and shouldve worked on his action, but he continued with chucking and was caught.

ICC responsibility is to ban chuckers not warn them beforehand. Its the responsibility of PCB to test the bowling action of its bowlers periodically to prevent Ajmal like scenario.

You're only blaming ICC for doing their job.

I'm not bashing ICC for banning Ajmal. I never said that ICC did wrong by banning ajmal and others.,

What im portraying here is that the manner in which the case could had been dealt with. So the stake holders in concern shouldn't had suffer like they had to.

Pakistan suffered in the 2015 world because of the out of the blue moon changes in procedures

 

[ToeCrusher2]

again you go on about stealing and getting caught etc.

The guy could legally go to court and show a paper saying that according to an ICC test what he was doing was well within the rights and legalities what he did from that point until he had to face another test many years later.

I understand that you are trying your hard to make ajmal look bad by such analogies, but like i said, ICC had him cleared. Now you could call it incompetent or whatever, what he did was legal accoriding to the icc.

And that's why he gets to keep his record, due to ICC incompetence all the wickets he took are still considered legal. So don't know what you are complaining about, what more should have the ICC done.

 

[Major]

And that's why he gets to keep his record, due to ICC incompetence all the wickets he took are still considered legal. So don't know what you are complaining about, what more should have the ICC done.

re-read the opening post or all other posts in this thread by me

 

[Abdullah719]

big deal. everybody lies.

I would lie to save my career, anyone else would also do it.

The lie did nothing helpful for his career, it just made him lose respect.

 

[shaz619]

When Ajmal was cleared the first time round he was within the 15 degree limit and his action was legal. ICC banned him accordingly when he failed the test the second time

 

[Major]

The lie did nothing helpful for his career, it just made him lose respect.

The lie had nothing to do with anything.

Many other bowlers got banned. Were they lieing about an accident?

 

[Major]

When Ajmal was cleared the first time round he was within the 15 degree limit and his action was legal. ICC banned him accordingly when he failed the test the second time

No not really.

If that was to happen, then so many off spinners would had not been banned all of a sudden.

Implemenation of rules and leniancy was the reason in earlier testing.

But if you wanted to change something, then bring change in steps.

 

[Abdullah719]

The lie had nothing to do with anything.

Many other bowlers got banned. Were they lieing about an accident?

All I am saying is that Ajmal's behaviour after the ban made him lose support from fans.

 

[Major]

All I am saying is that Ajmal's behaviour after the ban made him lose support from fans.

Who wouldnt behave like that?

You are known as a legend, everyone loves you. Where ever you go you are looked up upon, but then suddenly all that is taken away because or organisation brings in new rules without even bothering to bring them in steps.

Ajmal was frusturated and rightly so.

 

[shaz619]

No not really.

If that was to happen, then so many off spinners would had not been banned all of a sudden.

Implemenation of rules and leniancy was the reason in earlier testing.

But if you wanted to change something, then bring change in steps.

Yes really, even from.the naked eye you can tell Ajmal was bending his elbow extensively during 2015 and no where near as much when he cleared the test first time round and was bowling legally

 

[Abdullah719]

Who wouldnt behave like that?

You are known as a legend, everyone loves you. Where ever you go you are looked up upon, but then suddenly all that is taken away because or organisation brings in new rules without even bothering to bring them in steps.

Ajmal was frusturated and rightly so.

He can behave however he wants but that doesn't make it right.

Most of the other bowlers who got banned just got on with it, reformed their actions and returned.

 

[Major]

Yes really, even from.the naked eye you can tell Ajmal was bending his elbow extensively during 2015 and no where near as much when he cleared the test first time round and was bowling legally

Again. His action was same from day 1.

If his action changed, then also remember that soo many bowlers were banned after 2014. Does that mean suddenly every offie in the world changed his action?

 

[Major]

He can behave however he wants but that doesn't make it right.

Most of the other bowlers who got banned just got on with it, reformed their actions and returned.

Most of the other bowlers didnt have the same fame as ajmal.

It is as if you banned muralitharan all of a sudden.

Ajmal was to become a legend.

Guys like narine were just known for t20 bowking. Guy barely played any test games.

Ajmal was rocking in every format

 

[shaz619]

Again. His action was same from day 1.

If his action changed, then also remember that soo many bowlers were banned after 2014. Does that mean suddenly every offie in the world changed his action?

stop being ignorant and look at the footage yourself, is the world t20 2009 Ajmal bowling with the same bend in 2015 ? Action is the same but deviation in elbow bend not so much

 

[Major]

stop being ignorant and look at the footage yourself, is the world t20 2009 Ajmal bowling with the same bend in 2015 ? Action is the same but deviation in elbow bend not so much

You are the one whos being ignorant by advocating a useless claim of ajmal bowling legally before illgeally afterwards.

If it was the simple, remodeliing wouldnt had been a hard process for him.

Also like i said before many other bowlers got banned when icc changed its procedures, does that mean every started chucking later in their careers?

Hafeez also got banned remember.

 

[Major]

The guy had to take soo many months to remodel his action. Even hafeez who was off by 1 or 2 inchs had to take a very long time to get a proper action.

 

[Abdullah719]

Most of the other bowlers didnt have the same fame as ajmal.

It is as if you banned muralitharan all of a sudden.

Ajmal was to become a legend.

Guys like narine were just known for t20 bowking. Guy barely played any test games.

Ajmal was rocking in every format

So that makes it OK for him to start claiming conspiracies and what not?

I think he damaged his own legacy; he was a fairly likeable fellow. If he had accepted his faults, worked on his action and returned (even if he didn't make it back to the national team), he would have had the respect of the fans. Instead, a lot of people now view his whole career as being tainted, despite him being cleared back in 2009(?).

 

[shaz619]

You are the one whos being ignorant by advocating a useless claim of ajmal bowling legally before illgeally afterwards.

If it was the simple, remodeliing wouldnt had been a hard process for him.

Also like i said before many other bowlers got banned when icc changed its procedures, does that mean every started chucking later in their careers?

Hafeez also got banned remember.

So you didn't answer my question and resorted to being ignorant to justify your view, typical Major

 

[Major]

So that makes it OK for him to start claiming conspiracies and what not?

I think he damaged his own legacy; he was a fairly likeable fellow. If he had accepted his faults, worked on his action and returned (even if he didn't make it back to the national team), he would have had the respect of the fans. Instead, a lot of people now view his whole career as being tainted, despite him being cleared back in 2009(?).

You have to understand where he was coming from.

Like i said, the guy had to suffer because a rule change that took place over night. The whole process could had been done in steps

 

[badsha001]

Ajmal did not know that such procedures would be inplace.

In hindsight its easy to say all this, but think about it

At that time, AJmal knew he was passed by ICC so he thought he could probably again. But this time ICC didn't bother to inform that it was changing its testing procedures

If I am not mistaken he wasn't the first one to get call for bowling test... Any sane person with little bit of common sense could have seen it that most spinners are getting caught with new system in place and I should hang my boots. I can tell you even Ajmal knew that he was fully chucking.

 

[Major]

So you didn't answer my question and resorted to being ignorant to justify your view, typical Major

Typical .

You have ignored the fact that evry bowler was being banned after 2014. Like i said was every one chucking after 2014 and bot before that.

I remember the 5 match australia series in abu dhabi, this series took place before the first icc bowling test on ajmal. Ajmal performed well, but he was chuking and the australian commies pointed this out immediately.

 

[Major]

If I am not mistaken he wasn't the first one to get call for bowling test... Any sane person with little bit of common sense could have seen it that most spinners are getting caught with new system in place and I should hang my boots. I can tell you even Ajmal knew that he was fully chucking.

The introduction of new system is what im complaining about.

Icc should had let other boards known this process so that boards could had dealt with guys like ajmal. Give them options of retirement. The guy was caught completely off guarded.

Ajmal knew he was chucking, but icc allowed him to make a whole career based on that. Icc was at fault.

 

[maxamax]

Hows that ICC's fault? If anything ICC should be applauded for upholding the laws of cricket. Cricket has no place for chuckers. The reason why most fans remember Ajmal as chucker is because his bowling action was over 2x the legal limit. Thats balant chucking(cheating).

Some people are blind to see that the 'procedure' was bought on to target specific spinner. It wasn't there for Murli & Bhajji.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Knowingly cheated and came up with nonsensical excuses when found out. Was aided by an ICC testing policy that was pretty abysmal and when the ICC rectified this when they saw the likes of Senanayake and co chucking by about 30 degrees and passing the tests he was found out and exposed.

To claim the blame lies with anyone bar himself is victim mentality. He should consider himself grateful to the ICC if anything, had they bothered with proper chucking checks a decade ago hed have never had an international career.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Some people are blind to see that the 'procedure' was bought on to target specific spinner. It wasn't there for Murli & Bhajji.

Seriously some fans still think it was conspiracy.
First of all, when Ajmal was cleared in early days ICC was incompetent(maybe technologically).
Secondly, it was under Big 3 who adopted new rules and brought up more advanced technology.
Lastly, if you think Ajmal was just called up randomly to banned him thn you're wrong. ICC was calling upon suspected bowlers for test, he could've remodel his action and make a comeback, instead he started throwing lies and played victim mentality.
These are the reason why most neutral fans dont rate him.

I don't know if Murali would clear the new testing method or not. But he no longer play international cricket so its all hypothetical situation.

 

[Ismailtoca]

Agree with Major Completely. He was declared legal by ICC. As such he was legal until he was banned. Anything in the middle was legitimate.

Example: India had no GST until recently. As such, if you did business and did not collect GST until 2017 you were completely legal. India isn't going to go back to its traders and say that oh you need to remit GST for all the goods you sold prior to the year.

 

[Sidilicious]

More like ICC opened their eyes and realised how inadequate their testing procedures and allowed Ajmal to chuck till glory. At least they fixed their procedures so that fewer spinners chuck.

 

[HitWicket]

Ajmal did not know that such procedures would be inplace.

In hindsight its easy to say all this, but think about it

At that time, AJmal knew he was passed by ICC so he thought he could probably again. But this time ICC didn't bother to inform that it was changing its testing procedures

Rubbish, it was public knowledge the testing procedure has changed by the time Ajmal had been called.

 

[Convict]

The ICC was too weak for many years and did not have the courage to clamp down on chucking.

 

[JaDed]

Legally nothing wrong,issue is he lied due to which he lost respect, imagine a scenario batsman saying he has leg injury and is being allowed a runner for every game just because ICC allows it.

 

[shaz619]

Typical .

You have ignored the fact that evry bowler was being banned after 2014. Like i said was every one chucking after 2014 and bot before that.

I remember the 5 match australia series in abu dhabi, this series took place before the first icc bowling test on ajmal. Ajmal performed well, but he was chuking and the australian commies pointed this out immediately.

Are you saying the deviation in Ajmal's elbow bend in 2009 world t20 was the same in 2015 ?

 

[shaz619]

If ruining his legacy meant clamping down on illegal bowling actions then so be it ! But lets get this straight, ICC did not screw Ajmal; Ajmal screwed Ajmal.

 

[Misia]

Well it is quite well known that Ajmal and so many other off spinners did chuck. It was clearly evident with the naked eye,

forgive me for saying but to me it seems that you are saying "you are happy to have player in your team even when you know he is a chucker" next will be dont matter if hes a fixer lets add him to the team aswell

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Always saw him as a chucker and chucked whenever it suited him especially 2009 World T20. However ICC is definitely at fault for not taking a strong stand against chucking and allowing to play for so long.

 

[gazza619]

The doosra was exciting to watch. Sadly the dumb rule makers didn't see it this way..

 

[Balthazar]

But he knew that he was chucking and so did the PCB, but they didn't do anything about it. I'd say he brought it on himself, he pushed his luck too far and eventually had to be found out.

 

[Syed1]

Keep in mind reverse swing was also called ball tampering before the English and Aussies did it.


So it is chucking when a Pakistani does it, wait till these countries produce a spinner who isn't utter filth (Warne excluded) then you will have the rules revised.

 

[HitWicket]

Keep in mind reverse swing was also called ball tampering before the English and Aussies did it.


So it is chucking when a Pakistani does it, wait till these countries produce a spinner who isn't utter filth (Warne excluded) then you will have the rules revised.

So you think it's perfectly fine for a 'bowler' to have an angle of 40 degrees in their arm?

You'll struggle to find anyone chucking as extremely as Ajmal was at international level because it gets rooted out at levels below that.

 

[Syed1]

So you think it's perfectly fine for a 'bowler' to have an angle of 40 degrees in their arm?

You'll struggle to find anyone chucking as extremely as Ajmal was at international level because it gets rooted out at levels below that.

So why was he cleared twice before by ICC?

 

[HitWicket]

So why was he cleared twice before by ICC?

Because the testing procedures weren't up to scratch, hence why the ICC cut their affiliation with UWA who developed it.

 

[Syed1]

Because the testing procedures weren't up to scratch, hence why the ICC cut their affiliation with UWA who developed it.

By that logic lets declare every spinner a chucker who had played before the testing procedures were "brought to scratch".

 

[HitWicket]

By that logic lets declare every spinner a chucker who had played before the testing procedures were "brought to scratch".

You will find many will refer to a select few past bowlers as 'chuckers' on the basis of footage that makes their action looks more like a javelin throwers action than a bowling action as it did with Ajmal. There's just arguably very few specialist bowlers in history who were as blatant as him.

 

[The_Odd_One]

It was not ICC fault's that Ajmal started chucking massively after he was cleared.

 

[StreetSmart]

No body cares about them who call him Chuker he was a legend who served Pakistan and made us proud.

 

[Major]

I have to say this again and again. Most people are failing to comprehend what i'm saying

Issues is not ICC banning Ajmal. Issue is the timing and the way he was banned. Out of the blue moon. This destroyed his legacy and created problems for Pakistan in the 2015 world cup

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] agreed u could tell in 2014 how Ajmals action deteriorated from his initial years on the intl circuit.

esp when he was under pressure or getting smashed in WT20 2014 i started noticing some of his deliveries looked very dodgy.

Hafeez has come back and is bowling well with a legal action. bowled very well in CT.

Ajmal said he had a deformity in his arm due to an accident that made him chuck. yet as soon as he was banned he came back with a totally new action.

 

[Abdullah719]

I have to say this again and again. Most people are failing to comprehend what i'm saying

Issues is not ICC banning Ajmal. Issue is the timing and the way he was banned. Out of the blue moon. This destroyed his legacy and created problems for Pakistan in the 2015 world cup

How do you propose they should have done it?

'Hi Ajmal, we know you're chucking but we will allow you to play the World Cup anyway because we feel sorry for you'.

When a new law is introduced, or an existing law is implemented in a different manner then it has to take effect straight away in a case such as this where a bowler has a completely illegal action.

 

[Executioner]

The question is, how should it have been done

Do you know that two of our key bowlers were banned in the middle of a tournament?

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] agreed u could tell in 2014 how Ajmals action deteriorated from his initial years on the intl circuit.

esp when he was under pressure or getting smashed in WT20 2014 i started noticing some of his deliveries looked very dodgy.

Hafeez has come back and is bowling well with a legal action. bowled very well in CT.

Ajmal said he had a deformity in his arm due to an accident that made him chuck. yet as soon as he was banned he came back with a totally new action.

Yeah I agree with everything about Ajmal but he did clear that first test and it's silly of people to say his action was the same in 2009 as it was in 2014/15, am sure even if the testing protocols in 2009 were not on point they would have been good enough to pick up the excessive deviations from 2015. His action deteriorated due to the insane work load and it's a shame about that claim he made with regards to the deformity

 

[shaz619]

I have to say this again and again. Most people are failing to comprehend what i'm saying

Issues is not ICC banning Ajmal. Issue is the timing and the way he was banned. Out of the blue moon. This destroyed his legacy and created problems for Pakistan in the 2015 world cup

Well that's a pretty nonsensical point of view, why on earth should the ICC give Ajmal the treatment of a King ? the timing was perfect, if they want to clean up the sport you hit people when it hurts most; on the brink of a World Cup is absolutely perfect timing. ICC don't owe anything to Ajmal and do not owe him esteemed treatment, he is a victim of his own deeds in the end

 

[Major]

How do you propose they should have done it?

'Hi Ajmal, we know you're chucking but we will allow you to play the World Cup anyway because we feel sorry for you'.

When a new law is introduced, or an existing law is implemented in a different manner then it has to take effect straight away in a case such as this where a bowler has a completely illegal action.

inform every board that a new law is going to be introduced which will affect many players career and the teams future performances.

Give them a deadline that this is when the changes will be implemented.

Remember the 2011 worldcup lbw rule? Mid tournament a new rule emerges




Many of you have failed to understand that you need to take into account other stake holders when bringing in a rule as it affects them alot.

Yes, ICC did make a mistake by allowing chuckers, but bringing in a different rule should had followed proper steps. Plus this change in procedure should had been bought after the 2015 world cup, as teams who's ICC accredited legal bowlers now deemed illegal, had to build bowling attacks from scratch(Pakistan's bowling line up)

 

[Major]

The question is, how should it have been done

Do you know that two of our key bowlers were banned in the middle of a tournament?

right after 2011 world cup or 2015 world cup. Not in the middle of the 4 years.

Plus, a guy like Ajmal should had been given an ultimatum through PCB. That he could retire right now as in the new rules he will be banned and that will effect his legacy.

A country like Pakistan could had benefited alot from cult figures like Ajmal. These people have alot of influence in their respective country and could get work done.

The guy made his own cricket club in Faisalabad and allows player free of cost, after his fame went away, the local mobs of that area did qabza on his club land. Guys club had to be dorment for some months

 

[Major]

By that logic lets declare every spinner a chucker who had played before the testing procedures were "brought to scratch".

+1 good point.

This makes every spinner a chucker if people dont want to accept those testings aswell.

 

[Executioner]

right after 2011 world cup or 2015 world cup. Not in the middle of the 4 years.

Plus, a guy like Ajmal should had been given an ultimatum through PCB. That he could retire right now as in the new rules he will be banned and that will effect his legacy.

A country like Pakistan could had benefited alot from cult figures like Ajmal. These people have alot of influence in their respective country and could get work done.

The guy made his own cricket club in Faisalabad and allows player free of cost, after his fame went away, the local mobs of that area did qabza on his club land. Guys club had to be dorment for some months

Are you expecting ICC to give preferential treatment to players based upon when they were caught. This could mean an ultra chucker could debut next year or this year and play the next world cup.

Saeed Ajmal was tested before the world cup. Do you know that teams suffer injuries before world cup. It's a part and parcel of the game. The ban was imposed two months before and Pakistan had adequate time to change things around.

Do you know our players were banned midway through the tournament. That is far worse because it's difficult to have alternatives midway and it really is detrimental to team plans but 2 months prior to the world cup should not be a big factor.

Your point is that Ajmal should have been banned earlier or after the world cup. Well guess what he was suspected in 2014. He probably didn't chuck as much before but even a visually impaired person could see ajmal chucking a lot in 2014 and he was rightfully banned. If your point is that Ajmal should have been banned a few months earlier that is a matter of the harshness of ICC on the rules. We know ICC became strict in 2014. But thats a tale for a different day

This ajmal legacy was a legacy where a bowler took unfair advantage of the ICC simply being casual about chucking in the first place. We saw that when he was bowling with lesser straightening he was mediocre. Yes all those records will now seem like they were built on a foundation of chucking.


Btw folks compared Amir and ajmal. Don't compare. Amir sold his country's pride for a few bucks. Ajmal was no cheat. He gave his Level best but only took advantage of the conditions. Does that mean he did not deserve all the accolades? Perhaps. Does that mean he brought shame to his country? No.