Saeed Ajmal - A legacy that was destroyed by ICC itself

[Major]

Are you expecting ICC to give preferential treatment to players based upon when they were caught. This could mean an ultra chucker could debut next year or this year and play the next world cup.

Saeed Ajmal was tested before the world cup. Do you know that teams suffer injuries before world cup. It's a part and parcel of the game. The ban was imposed two months before and Pakistan had adequate time to change things around.

Do you know our players were banned midway through the tournament. That is far worse because it's difficult to have alternatives midway and it really is detrimental to team plans but 2 months prior to the world cup should not be a big factor.

Your point is that Ajmal should have been banned earlier or after the world cup. Well guess what he was suspected in 2014. He probably didn't chuck as much before but even a visually impaired person could see ajmal chucking a lot in 2014 and he was rightfully banned. If your point is that Ajmal should have been banned a few months earlier that is a matter of the harshness of ICC on the rules. We know ICC became strict in 2014. But thats a tale for a different day

This ajmal legacy was a legacy where a bowler took unfair advantage of the ICC simply being casual about chucking in the first place. We saw that when he was bowling with lesser straightening he was mediocre. Yes all those records will now seem like they were built on a foundation of chucking.


Btw folks compared Amir and ajmal. Don't compare. Amir sold his country's pride for a few bucks. Ajmal was no cheat. He gave his Level best but only took advantage of the conditions. Does that mean he did not deserve all the accolades? Perhaps. Does that mean he brought shame to his country? No.

how could one use the word caught when ICC called it legal?

injuries in something else. But taking out a fully fit man due to rules is something else. Thats like comparing apples to oranges.

Ajmal's chucked even when he came new in the team, but was cleared by ICC.

Stop putting forward the lame argument that oh he was legal but hten he started chuking. That never happened. His action was the same ever since.

Thats ICC fault not Ajmal for having such testing procedures

 

[shaz619]

how could one use the word caught when ICC called it legal?

injuries in something else. But taking out a fully fit man due to rules is something else. Thats like comparing apples to oranges.

Ajmal's chucked even when he came new in the team, but was cleared by ICC.

Stop putting forward the lame argument that oh he was legal but hten he started chuking. That never happened. His action was the same ever since.

Thats ICC fault not Ajmal for having such testing procedures

This is a blatant lie and pure ignorance on your part in order to continue your line of flawed thinking, you've not answered the question posed; was the deviation in his straightening of the arm in 2009 the same as it was in 2014/15 when his action had deteriorated due to insane work load and he had began to chuck extravagantly ?

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] Are you seriously telling me that the Ajmal who appeared in English county season in 2015 bowled with the same action as the one in 2009 ? Seriously ?

 

[Major]

Like i have said before, go watch the 2009 abu dhabi UAE series with Australia. The analyst pointed out immediately that he was chucking.

And like i have said a million times, after 2014 many bowlers got banned, and that happened due to policy changes, not because Ajmals action changed.. I have met guys who have played with him and told me he chucked way back in the 2003 and 04.

but carry on believeing that a guy bowled legally and now bowls illegally, but cant go back into bowling legally again

 

[shaz619]

Like i have said before, go watch the 2009 abu dhabi UAE series with Australia. The analyst pointed out immediately that he was chucking.

And like i have said a million times, after 2014 many bowlers got banned, and that happened due to policy changes, not because Ajmals action changed.. I have met guys who have played with him and told me he chucked way back in the 2003 and 04.

but carry on believeing that a guy bowled legally and now bowls illegally, but cant go back into bowling legally again

You should go watch World T20 2009 and compare his action to 2014/15, he was definitely chucking in 2009 but he was within the designated constraints; to think his action did not deteriorate under inhumane work load is incredible naive and ignorant, he was run into the ground literally; that's not to say that he isn't at fault but that's just a fact. The ICC Test protocols may have improved but if he was throwing javelins in 2009 surely this would have been picked up but it didn't because Ajmal's action was not as bad as it became

 

[maxamax]

Seriously some fans still think it was conspiracy.
First of all, when Ajmal was cleared in early days ICC was incompetent(maybe technologically).
Secondly, it was under Big 3 who adopted new rules and brought up more advanced technology.
Lastly, if you think Ajmal was just called up randomly to banned him thn you're wrong. ICC was calling upon suspected bowlers for test, he could've remodel his action and make a comeback, instead he started throwing lies and played victim mentality.
These are the reason why most neutral fans dont rate him.

I don't know if Murali would clear the new testing method or not. But he no longer play international cricket so its all hypothetical situation.

The "new technology" was introduced in Ajmal's era, not anyone else. And yes, the whole big 3 group was with India to take out better Pakistani players so that they can start their mickey mouses leagues to earn huge bucks. Had Ajmal and similar players been there, players like Kohli were only going to warm the benches.

Same goes for trio in 2010. I was expecting them to have something bad as soon as they were bowling teams out. Everything was falling in place for Pakistan at the very wrong Indian time. They wanted to "win" the world cup and trio was def. not gonna let that happen.

 

[CanadianG00se]

The "new technology" was introduced in Ajmal's era, not anyone else. And yes, the whole big 3 group was with India to take out better Pakistani players so that they can start their mickey mouses leagues to earn huge bucks. Had Ajmal and similar players been there, players like Kohli were only going to warm the benches.

Same goes for trio in 2010. I was expecting them to have something bad as soon as they were bowling teams out. Everything was falling in place for Pakistan at the very wrong Indian time. They wanted to "win" the world cup and trio was def. not gonna let that happen.

So you're blaming BCCI/India for the spot fixing fiasco?

Well that sums up the mentality of some fans. Always blaming outside interference for own's shortcomings.

 

[iniqbal223]

Why in Pakistan we always think there is some conspiracy going against us. The fact of the matter is media channels still chase after TTFF's to get the insider news from them to raise their TRPs. Why media channels dont give much attention to our upcoming players, and performers. This approach needs to be changed. The fact that came out from the ICC tests was , Ajmal was bowling with different actions during the ICC tests.

Previous testing procedure was flawed; as it was based on 20-30 deliverers on a day to check for 15degrees bowling action limit. ICC realised this, and changed the process to judge bowling action based on more number of deliveries for 2/3 days with better technology to assess. Of course, its true Murali/Bhajji did not have to go through this, as they were retired and or discarded by then. Every team did suffer, even India had to ban Pragyan Ojha for chucking.

Playing under constraints is what the game is all about, otherwise anyone on the street can chuck and take plenty of wickets with dubious bowling action.

I think Ajmal has got more than what he deserved. This had to happen some day, and sadly for Ajmal it happened during his prime form.

 

[iniqbal223]

True, why people think in this way that outside influence is hurting us. We are destroying our own self. We still have soft corners for undeserving Akmals, we dont accept our failures and wont accept meritocracy. This mentality needs to be changed.

BCCI clout has grown bigger and powerful but I dont think they are determined to destroy Pakistan. As far as, not playing bilateral series, it has more to do with politicl

 

[iniqbal223]

BCCI clout has grown powerful and bigger and why they should not?? They have established the infrastructure to the grooming of players and identifying the right players , which we have not done. BCCI realised their mistakes after 1999 world cup, they did not hesitate to ban Ajay Jadeja (who was from very strong cricket family) and Azhar. And what we did? shown our incompetency by not banning Akram and others.

They again took the best foot forward after the debacle of 2007 world cup, and since then investing in youth. And here we are still living in the past glory. We still give attention to the fools like Akmals.

BCCI in short is very proud of their hard work and realising their true potential..

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

This is nonsense. Even if they cleared him before, the rules changed and then when he had to adjust and play fair, he looked mediocre.

Fact is he succeeded by using cheap methods, and once he had to clean it up, he looked like he wasn't a cricketer.

Any judgments made on him were based on that.

He was an incredible bowler when the rules were set a certain way/there was not a crackdown on it as there is now, and a mediocre one without it. I think that's simply calling it what it is. His career downfall is lack of ability once he could not cheat, not the ICC.

 

[Abdulm123]

Complaining about Saeed Ajmal getting banned for chucking is like complaining about Lionei Messi or Ronaldo getting banned for using banned ped`s

 

[Abdulm123]

People in Pakistan always blame conspiracy for bad things happening against them when its actually their own role models who get banned or whatever actually did the bad thing

 

[Junaids]

This is how I see it.

1. Saeed Ajmal was born in October 1977 - just 10 months after Saqlain Mushtaq.

2. From 1995-2004, Saqlain has a successful career, Ajmal achieves nothing.

3. Saeed Ajmal remains a mediocre nobody until he is over 30 years old.

4. Suddenly, from 2008, Saeed Ajmal becomes a dangerous bowler with an almost uniquely dangerous doosra. His sudden, very late rise is reminiscent of numerous athletes (from Flo-Jo to Michelle Smith de Bruin) whose late career transformation aroused suspicion.

5. In 2009 he was tested and cleared BUT this testing used a regime in which no effort whatsoever is made to check that the action used in the lab matches the action used on the pitch. In effect he - and Murali and all others subjected to this testing regime - could bowl whatever action they felt like using in the lab.

6. In early 2012, Bob Willis said what pretty much everyone thought - that Ajmal's action looked illegal.

7. August 2014: Saeed Ajmal was reported for a suspicious action in the Galle Test.

8. Saeed Ajmal's action was then tested in a biomechanical laboratory using a new regime by which his deliveries were matched to the action used in footage from international matches. His action was found to be illegal for all deliveries, with his off-break averaging 26 degree straightening (the limit is 15 degrees) and his doosra averaging a whopping 42 degrees. Ajmal claimed to have a disability that made it impossible for him to bowl without straightening his arm.

9. January 2015: Saeed Ajmal made a miraculous recovery from his disability and passed further testing in which he was allowed to use a new action, but with the warning that future international matches would be checked to see that his action did not "deteriorate" again.

10. With his action clean once again, Saeed Ajmal was a mediocre bowler like he always had been when he and Saqlain were both active as cricketers.

People can interpret that as they wish to. I know how I interpret it.

 

[Itachi]

Legacy isn't defined in rules. Legacy is defined by the people the way they perceive it.

Legal or not, people had doubts over ajmals actions. Hence when his bowling became illegal they got a ground since it was suspected long ago.

Rules don't make you fall out of respect.

Your actions do.

ICC with all the power in hand, couldn't have broken ajmals legacy had the people believed in him on THAT LEVEL (to leave a legacy) in the first place.

 

[James]

This is how I see it.

1. Saeed Ajmal was born in October 1977 - just 10 months after Saqlain Mushtaq.

2. From 1995-2004, Saqlain has a successful career, Ajmal achieves nothing.

3. Saeed Ajmal remains a mediocre nobody until he is over 30 years old.

4. Suddenly, from 2008, Saeed Ajmal becomes a dangerous bowler with an almost uniquely dangerous doosra. His sudden, very late rise is reminiscent of numerous athletes (from Flo-Jo to Michelle Smith de Bruin) whose late career transformation aroused suspicion.

5. In 2009 he was tested and cleared BUT this testing used a regime in which no effort whatsoever is made to check that the action used in the lab matches the action used on the pitch. In effect he - and Murali and all others subjected to this testing regime - could bowl whatever action they felt like using in the lab.

6. In early 2012, Bob Willis said what pretty much everyone thought - that Ajmal's action looked illegal.

7. August 2014: Saeed Ajmal was reported for a suspicious action in the Galle Test.

8. Saeed Ajmal's action was then tested in a biomechanical laboratory using a new regime by which his deliveries were matched to the action used in footage from international matches. His action was found to be illegal for all deliveries, with his off-break averaging 26 degree straightening (the limit is 15 degrees) and his doosra averaging a whopping 42 degrees. Ajmal claimed to have a disability that made it impossible for him to bowl without straightening his arm.

9. January 2015: Saeed Ajmal made a miraculous recovery from his disability and passed further testing in which he was allowed to use a new action, but with the warning that future international matches would be checked to see that his action did not "deteriorate" again.

10. With his action clean once again, Saeed Ajmal was a mediocre bowler like he always had been when he and Saqlain were both active as cricketers.

People can interpret that as they wish to. I know how I interpret it.

A very fair summary.

Of course there will still be Ajmal fans who seek to defend his honour, but even if he had been bowling underarm with a frisbee they would defend him and say it was due to an ICC conspiracy / BCCI / disability, so you have to ignore such characters.

 

[Hitman]

A very fair summary.

Of course there will still be Ajmal fans who seek to defend his honour, but even if he had been bowling underarm with a frisbee they would defend him and say it was due to an ICC conspiracy / BCCI / disability, so you have to ignore such characters.

Or maybe even if he started pitching it baseball style. It's always a conspiracy for such fans.