Saudis must boycott ‘everything Turkish,’ says commerce head after Erdogan remarks

[JaDed]

I am pretty sure you have misunderstood me. The part you highlighted was an answer to this question of yours.

"You think every religion should have a leader?"

I answered in context of the discussion. Being a supporter of a global muslim block, what you asked is not my concern. Hope you understood now.

But it also answered this:

"How will that workout for citizens of other religions when that leader falls?"

 

[JaDed]

Problem are secularists who fight against their own co-religionists and become tools of the enemy, when their religion is crying for all the support it can gather.

Which is what seems to be happening in Liberal countries, don't doubt it but it seems its mostly the insecurities of majority religion as well that their adherents aren't as religious which is what you seem to suggest as well.

 

[Madplayer]

But it also answered this:

"How will that workout for citizens of other religions when that leader falls?"

No it didnt. I didnt answer the second question because i didnt understand what it meant. Sorry about that.

 

[JaDed]

No it didnt. I didnt answer the second question because i didnt understand what it meant. Sorry about that.

Once religion takes center stage... maybe that particular "strong" leader was good to the other citizens practicing different religion but after his demise its all struggle from there for power which would lead to religion being used to discriminate , has happened enough times.

Nation states atleast treat all their citizens equally and most of the time law is not specific to a religion, so even minorities are safe guarded aka England,Canada,Australia,NZ even in USA.

 

[Madplayer]

Once religion takes center stage... maybe that particular "strong" leader was good to the other citizens practicing different religion but after his demise its all struggle from there for power which would lead to religion being used to discriminate , has happened enough times.

Nation states atleast treat all their citizens equally and most of the time law is not specific to a religion, so even minorities are safe guarded aka England,Canada,Australia,NZ even in USA.

The fears hold true for nation-states as well. Case in point, India under Bjp where subjective loopholes in the constitution have been used to oppress minorities and essentially kill any opposition. Yellow vest protests under Macron is another example of how the system could be used by governments to their own benefit.

The best safeguard which could be some sort of a proof of guaranteed protection under all circumstances is a written constitution. I am not opposed to that, even if it's a religion based order. But I'm not sure why we're discussing this particular part. By a leader I certainly didnt mean a religious leader who will rule over all muslim countries. I was talking about creating a block with powerful global muslim leaders who use that block to the advantage of muslims. I wasnt talking about dismantling the nation-state system altogether. Just about creating a collective consciousness under strong global leaders.

 

[Nadeemp]

Is this a response to my post? You should quote me.

Nobody said anything about not getting educated. Ofcourse education is necessary. That's what gave muslims the edge for so many centuries.

I understand you are an atheist and things would be bad for you in Pakistan but they shouldnt be if we speak about an Islamic set up. If you're an atheist then that's your own business. Unfortunately that's not how things work in Pakistan and it's always more convenient to simply move out rather than work for change. Good that you fit in very well in the US but clearly it has to do more with you not adhering to any religion. Even though i believe they'll still not accept you on all levels. You are like a role reversed Devshirme who should have been among us but end up furthering and advocating the enemies' cause after being nurtured by them. By you i dont mean you individually but those who choose this path in life. Like I said, a result producing global power is attractive. If tomorrow muslims become the dominant force in the world again, many among your kind will go back from Tony to Muhammad. Again, by you i dont mean you individually.

I dont really care about Erdogan to be honest . What was my criteria again? Let me reiterate it for you, "If erdogan fails in tapping into the demographic potential of muslim world, only then I'll say he has failed."

You are claiming he will throw muslims under the bus. Let him get into a position of such global power and then do that. What will happen if he throws everyone under the bus? Will the great muslims of 21st century lose their stature? Well, we dont have one to begin with. We are already in a pathetic state and he will then be called just another failure. But he (or any muslim leader for that matter) needs to get into that position of global power today. It's a necessity for the muslim world because of the doldrums we are in. The muslims of the world need a rallying point and i understand why that's a scary idea for some. What makes you think i haven't talked to muslims of other countries? I have. They do have a faith in muslim brotherhood but they do feel hopeless and many have given up. And hence, they need a new hope in a strong, concrete global muslim block. Islam is structured in such a way that the muslims need global leaders. It is different than the concept of nation states at a fundamental level. Now, at the same time I am not delusional. I just mentioned that the Islamic world is screaming for a strong global leader, the position is up for grabs, Erdogan is trying and is doing fine so far. I do understand that it's not going to happen tomorrow if it will happen at all and it's not going to be easy. It is a need though. A very big need.

I do t know if you have been to the USA. Usa is not a very secular country when it comes to its people. Many people are practicing Christian. So being an atheist Has it drawbacks. Also I don’t think if I belonged to any religion it would have any effect among my circle of friends or trouble for me integrating. No place is perfect and plenty of racist people in the USA. However before the usa I was in Dubai. My father Decided to come to USA as he thought he felt like a second class citizen in a muslim country ( UAE). Regarding if tomorrow muslims become a world power I don’t believe many will go back to Islam. What proof do you have . Have you changed your religion because USA is in power??? I am an atheist not because USA is in power, but because religion does not make sense and I believe it is false and harmful. I just don’t understand the need for muslim brotherhood . There used to be Christendom at one point. I am glad that idea has been thrown in the trash bin . That’s where muslim brotherhood idea belongs also

 

[Nadeemp]

The fears hold true for nation-states as well. Case in point, India under Bjp where subjective loopholes in the constitution have been used to oppress minorities and essentially kill any opposition. Yellow vest protests under Macron is another example of how the system could be used by governments to their own benefit.

The best safeguard which could be some sort of a proof of guaranteed protection under all circumstances is a written constitution. I am not opposed to that, even if it's a religion based order. But I'm not sure why we're discussing this particular part. By a leader I certainly didnt mean a religious leader who will rule over all muslim countries. I was talking about creating a block with powerful global muslim leaders who use that block to the advantage of muslims. I wasnt talking about dismantling the nation-state system altogether. Just about creating a collective consciousness under strong global leaders.

In my opinion I would stay away from any sort of nationalism.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I do t know if you have been to the USA. Usa is not a very secular country when it comes to its people. Many people are practicing Christian. So being an atheist Has it drawbacks. Also I don’t think if I belonged to any religion it would have any effect among my circle of friends or trouble for me integrating. No place is perfect and plenty of racist people in the USA. However before the usa I was in Dubai. My father Decided to come to USA as he thought he felt like a second class citizen in a muslim country ( UAE). Regarding if tomorrow muslims become a world power I don’t believe many will go back to Islam. What proof do you have . Have you changed your religion because USA is in power??? I am an atheist not because USA is in power, but because religion does not make sense and I believe it is false and harmful. I just don’t understand the need for muslim brotherhood . There used to be Christendom at one point. I am glad that idea has been thrown in the trash bin . That’s where muslim brotherhood idea belongs also

Seems like a country with strong Abrahamic principles created your ideal country to live in then.

 

[Nadeemp]

Seems like a country with strong Abrahamic principles created your ideal country to live in then.

Yes there is a separation of state and religion.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes there is a separation of state and religion.

Something I have always recommended on here by the way.

 

[JaDed]

https://www.reuters.com/article/turkey-saudi-idUSKBN2871QF

Saudi Arabia has suspended Turkish meat imports - Turkish union

Eh yeah something is happening behind the scenes maybe that's why Turkey wants to be in EU?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

https://www.reuters.com/article/turkey-saudi-idUSKBN2871QF

Saudi Arabia has suspended Turkish meat imports - Turkish union

Eh yeah something is happening behind the scenes maybe that's why Turkey wants to be in EU?

I think Turkey's attempts to join the EU were pre-Erdogan. Since then the word is they are now looking to re-establish leadership in the Muslim world to the east, and to be fair, they have far better credentials than the Saudis. That would be my guess why SA is rattled.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I think Turkey's attempts to join the EU were pre-Erdogan. Since then the word is they are now looking to re-establish leadership in the Muslim world to the east, and to be fair, they have far better credentials than the Saudis. That would be my guess why SA is rattled.

Saudi is a puppet run state, the Saudi family were terrorists who were installed by the British against the Ottoman Empire. Turks will always hate this family and rightly so. The Al Saud one day will be sent packing by the likes of Turkey and Pakistan who will eventually take over the country and control the holy mosques.

 

[Nadeemp]

Saudis ( al saud family) are living on borrowed time . However Pakistan or turkey taking over are grand delusions .

 

[Giannis]

https://www.reuters.com/article/turkey-saudi-idUSKBN2871QF

Saudi Arabia has suspended Turkish meat imports - Turkish union

Eh yeah something is happening behind the scenes maybe that's why Turkey wants to be in EU?

Nope, Turkey wants to create a Neo-Ottoman empire, erdogan's doctrine has been neo-ottamanism thus the whole Mission:2023

 

[JaDed]

I think Turkey's attempts to join the EU were pre-Erdogan. Since then the word is they are now looking to re-establish leadership in the Muslim world to the east, and to be fair, they have far better credentials than the Saudis. That would be my guess why SA is rattled.

Hmm, there are articles of him saying 2018 he wants to join EU, I think France-Greece are against it.

Nope, Turkey wants to create a Neo-Ottoman empire, erdogan's doctrine has been neo-ottamanism thus the whole Mission:2023

How will Turkey make a Neo-Ottoman empire on its own if on right Gulf states don't support it and everyday EU gets into issues with them, checkout the thread of Turkey economy with latest articles on their economy.

Turkey is not China that has massive technology available to them, China can do what it wants Turkey has to be diplomatic.

 

[rhony]

Erdogan seems to be a fan favorite after Ertugrul series and becoming a dictator. Religion and dictatorship, the two reasons why a bunch of Islamic countries have been ruined and there still seems to be an appeal. Saudis are no saints and have ruined the world with wahabism. When a loser fights another loser, it doesn't impact much to the rest of the world.

 

[MenInG]

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman visits Turkey for the first time in years on Wednesday for talks with President Tayyip Erdogan aimed at fully normalising ties that were ruptured after the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

In April, Erdogan went to Saudi Arabia after a months-long drive to mend relations between the regional powers, including dropping the trial over Khashoggi's 2018 murder in Istanbul.

He held one-on-one talks with Prince Mohammed while there, raising the possibility of Saudi investments that could help relieve Turkey's beleaguered economy.

Erdogan said last week he and Prince Mohammed, Riyadh's de facto leader, would discuss "to what much higher level" they can take ties during talks in Ankara.

The visit is expected to bring "a full normalisation and a restoration of the pre-crisis period," a senior Turkish official told Reuters on condition of anonymity. "A new era will begin."

The official said negotiations on a possible currency swap line - which could help restore Turkey's diminished foreign reserves - were not moving "as fast as desired" and will be discussed privately between Erdogan and Prince Mohammed.

Agreements on energy, economy and security would be signed during Prince Mohammed's visit, while a plan was also in the works for Saudi funds to enter capital markets in Turkey, the person added.

Prince Mohammed is on his first tour outside the Gulf region in over three years including a visit to Jordan.

Ties between Ankara and Riyadh cratered after a Saudi hit squad killed and dismembered Khashoggi in 2018 at the kingdom's consulate in Istanbul. Erdogan at the time blamed it on the "highest levels" of the Saudi government.

Ankara has since stopped all criticism and halted its murder trial in April, transferring the case to Riyadh in a move condemned by human rights groups and criticised by opposition parties for trading honour for monetary support.

The visit comes as Turkey's economy is badly strained by a slumping lira and inflation soaring beyond 70%. Saudi funds and foreign currency could help Erdogan shore up support ahead of tight elections by June 2023, analysts say.

The Turkish official said Saudi Arabia may be interested in companies within the Turkish Wealth Fund or elsewhere, or in making investments similar to those by the United Arab Emirates in recent months.

The leaders will also discuss the possible sale of Turkish armed drones to Riyadh, the person added.

Kemal Kilicdaroglu, leader of the main opposition Republican People's Party (CHP), said on Tuesday that Erdogan "will embrace the man who ordered the killing" of Khashoggi.

Prince Mohammed denies any involvement in the murder.

Express Tribune