Shadab Khan vs Yasir Shah in ODIs

[shariqnoor]

Starting off, I have to say this is a bold and aggressive decision to have both leg spinners playing in the starting XI. So from the outset, my stance is very clear that we need to have two quality spinners playing in the XI at all times (exceptions being when you have a completely grassy pitch or completely overcast conditions). However, I would rather like to have a quality off spinner so that we have two spinners who spin the ball in different directions, just so you have both bases covered whether it is a right hander or a left hander on strike.

Coming to Shadab vs Yasir, Yasir's strengths are obviously unerring accuracy and wicket-to-wicket bowling which allows no room for the batsman to hit him square off the wicket, unless playing a slog sweep. However, Yasir has some limitations too. The foremost being that Yasir is a defensive bowler in ODI cricket. You can see his defensiveness the moment Yasir is being attacked. His lines and lengths begin to waver. I've hardly seen him bowl without long off and long on, again giving the impression he's scared of being hit. But when you are a leg spinner in ODI cricket, you cannot be defensive as you have been picked to take wickets and not to control runs.

Shadab on the other hand, while having the disadvantage of not being accurate, has a lion's mindset. His first instinct is attack but he's not scared to come back and attack the batsmen when the batsmen are taking Shadab on. Priceless trait to have for a leg spinner, especially in ODIs. This is one of the primary reason why Shadab has done well in ODI and T20 cricket much more than Yasir. Other reason is that Shadab has more tools up his sleeve. His wrong 'un is great and can vary his pace from slow to fast quite seamlessly. Yasir is quite limited in this regard.

Overall, I am in love with the idea of having two specialist spinners in the team especially given that apart from India and Sri Lanka, almost every other team will get floored by quality spin. We should pounce on this opportunity before the World Cup. But is Yasir that man who can give Pakistan that extra boost to their attack, I'm not quite convinced.

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan should certainly play two specialist spinners , no doubt against most teams. Captain need to be aggressive and use spinner as wicket taking option. Pakistan have quite a few options in this department. Someone who can bat a bit would be excellent choice.

 

[Markhor]

Shadab will always have a place but not sure Yasir's the right partner for him in ODIs.

I'd want more variation in the attack than two leggies - so would consider someone like Raza Hasan or Zafar Gohar.

 

[saeed5646]

Shadab will always have a place but not sure Yasir's the right partner for him in ODIs.

I'd want more variation in the attack than two leggies - so would consider someone like Raza Hasan or Zafar Gohar.

Glad you do rate raza hasan who is street smart and great reader of the game hopefully he will find is mojo very soon and play for pakistan soon

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Good thread.

I would not select Yasir in LOIs.I would rather go with someone like Zafar Gohar who should be a permanent fixture in the lineup along with Shadab.

 

[shariqnoor]

Shadab will always have a place but not sure Yasir's the right partner for him in ODIs.

I'd want more variation in the attack than two leggies - so would consider someone like Raza Hasan or Zafar Gohar.

I agree two right handed leg spinners is an overkill. Need more variation. But Raza Hasan / Zafar Gohar while being left handed still spin the ball in the same direction as Shadab. I don't know how much that benefits us. If you have a set batsman like Eoin Morgan or David Warner in full attack mode, balls spinning into them will be dispatched over mid-wicket and long-on with impunity. A quality off spinner or a left handed chinaman will be more effective.

Apart from Bilal Asif, who I feel is quite mediocre, do we not have a single offie in the domestic setup who can turn the ball a fair bit?

 

[Sunny_majoka]

Is there any Chinaman in our domestic circuit?

 

[mak36]

I agree two right handed leg spinners is an overkill. Need more variation. But Raza Hasan / Zafar Gohar while being left handed still spin the ball in the same direction as Shadab. I don't know how much that benefits us. If you have a set batsman like Eoin Morgan or David Warner in full attack mode, balls spinning into them will be dispatched over mid-wicket and long-on with impunity. A quality off spinner or a left handed chinaman will be more effective.

Apart from Bilal Asif, who I feel is quite mediocre, do we not have a single offie in the domestic setup who can turn the ball a fair bit?

Ashiq Ali.

Ahmer Ajaz is another one but don't think he is playing domestic cricket.

 

[mak36]

Is there any Chinaman in our domestic circuit?

Ahsan Jamil. But he last played domestic cricket in 2016.

 

[mak36]

Shadab will always have a place but not sure Yasir's the right partner for him in ODIs.

I'd want more variation in the attack than two leggies - so would consider someone like Raza Hasan or Zafar Gohar.

Raza has been poor since his comeback.

 

[ManFan]

Pakistan trying to use the strategy that India has used to good effect against Non-Asian teams.

I would make a brave call and give Shadab some rest for the ENG series before the WC and replace him with Zafar Gohar.

Still boggles me beyond belief why he was dropped especially considering that his last match for Pakistan was his Debut. One which ended in 2-54 off 10 overs and included the wickets of Root and Hales.

He was dropped for an attack of Anwar Ali, Azhar Ali, Shoaib Malik, Wahab Riaz, Yasir Shah and Mohammad Irfan. Which than proceeded to allow England to clinch the series and have Jos Butler score the fastest England century in ODI’s while making 355.

And than some people have the nerve to criticize Sarfraz and praise Azhar Ali.

 

[aloo paratha]

Zafar Gohar should be Shadab's partner.

 

[ManFan]

Zafar Gohar should be Shadab's partner.

Mickey probably is hesitant to have him considering he “overslept” for a chance to be a Test cricketer.

 

[yasir]

Shadab will always have a place but not sure Yasir's the right partner for him in ODIs.

I'd want more variation in the attack than two leggies - so would consider someone like Raza Hasan or Zafar Gohar.

Need for two spinners is mostly against western teams, most of those teams have too many lefties to play left arm spinner. Also in ENG/AUS leggy is better and finger. Control will be key factor in determining the when comparing Yasir with other available, since he is in Test, make sense for now...Shadab is automatic choice, I would say same about Faheem. Both of them are bowling on par with frontline bowlers, that's a huge plus, gives us lot of flexibility in all formats...

 

[ManFan]

Need for two spinners is mostly against western teams, most of those teams have too many lefties to play left arm spinner. Also in ENG/AUS leggy is better and finger. Control will be key factor in determining the when comparing Yasir with other available, since he is in Test, make sense for now...Shadab is automatic choice, I would say same about Faheem. Both of them are bowling on par with frontline bowlers, that's a huge plus, gives us lot of flexibility in all formats...

Problem is there is no good off-spinner and Gohar turns the ball in the same direction.

That’s why I advocate Agha Salman as he can bat also.

 

[mak36]

Pakistan trying to use the strategy that India has used to good effect against Non-Asian teams.

I would make a brave call and give Shadab some rest for the ENG series before the WC and replace him with Zafar Gohar.

Still boggles me beyond belief why he was dropped especially considering that his last match for Pakistan was his Debut. One which ended in 2-54 off 10 overs and included the wickets of Root and Hales.

He was dropped for an attack of Anwar Ali, Azhar Ali, Shoaib Malik, Wahab Riaz, Yasir Shah and Mohammad Irfan. Which than proceeded to allow England to clinch the series and have Jos Butler score the fastest England century in ODI’s while making 355.

And than some people have the nerve to criticize Sarfraz and praise Azhar Ali.

Pakistan have played two spinners for a while.

It's a shame Mickey wasn't coach when Zafar Gohar was in and around the team.

He would have treated him more fairly.

I mentioned in another thread how even though he's just come back from injury he was the leading wicket-taker in the Ramadan Cup. It's surprising he is not part of the NCA Camp.

 

[mak36]

Problem is there is no good off-spinner and Gohar turns the ball in the same direction.

That’s why I advocate Agha Salman as he can bat also.

The trajectory of a legspinner and SLA is different.

The problem is more to do with the fact finger spinners in the shorter formats seem to have gone out of fashion (unless they can also bat like Moeen).

Agha Salman's offspin is not good enough yet- he is primarily a batsman who can bowl and should be treated as such.

Bilal Asif and Ashiq Ali are the only off-spin candidates at domestic cricket (Ahmer Ajaz is not even in the picture).

 

[ManFan]

Pakistan have played two spinners for a while.

It's a shame Mickey wasn't coach when Zafar Gohar was in and around the team.

He would have treated him more fairly.

I mentioned in another thread how even though he's just come back from injury he was the leading wicket-taker in the Ramadan Cup. It's surprising he is not part of the NCA Camp.

It’s so sad.

We had Nawaz and Imad tested and tried out in international cricket but genuine spinners like Zafar and Asghar don’t get a shot.

Asghar needs some assistance from the pitch and is unfit but Gohar got one game in the PSL and picked up 3 for 20 odd. He even had the “Ball of the Tournament” when he pitched it on leg to hit Captain Sammy’s off stump.

 

[ads101]

How did Yasir bowl today, didn't catch the match. Kind of disappointing he couldn't pick up a wicket against this Zimbabwe side after bowling 10 overs though.

 

[Plumb]

I was just thinking about the same.

Yasir is more accurate and with an awesome line/length. Whereas Shadab is more wayward at times.

Yasir has legbreak and flipper whereas Shadab mostly bowls wrongons, a shadab yasir combo bowler ll be treat to watch

 

[ManFan]

Yasir Shah.

A lost cause in ODI’s with his marvellous control and line and length.

 

[Hasan123]

If they want a leggie they should have gone with Usama Mir. For a off spinner they should have selected Zafar Gohar.

 

[mak36]

If they want a leggie they should have gone with Usama Mir. For a off spinner they should have selected Zafar Gohar.

Usama Mir lacks control. Drags the ball short too often atm.

 

[Hasan123]

Usama Mir lacks control. Drags the ball short too often atm.

How is he gonna learn from not playing? Yasir lacks variation for LO against the top teams.

 

[mak36]

How is he gonna learn from not playing? Yasir lacks variation for LO against the top teams.

Who said he should stop playing? He is talented but not yet ready for international cricket.

He will learn at nets, NCA and domestic cricket.

He could barely make the playing XI for Karachi Kings, never mind an international team.

 

[TeamPak95]

@OP

Interesting thread. On one hand, you'd ideally want variety in your spin attack via offspin/legspin (which is what I'd prefer). On the other hand, if Pakistan go for Yasir-Shadab combo you'd literally have Yasir bowling defensively on one end to build up pressure, making it easier for Shadab to bowl at the other end and attack the batsmen and try and take wickets. So the way I see it, I think you could treat this as a win-win type situation.

 

[UN talkz]

How is he gonna learn from not playing? Yasir lacks variation for LO against the top teams.

His injury is a major problem, his back gets injured everytime after playing few games and his control isn't that good.

 

[Hasan123]

Who said he should stop playing? He is talented but not yet ready for international cricket.

He will learn at nets, NCA and domestic cricket.

He could barely make the playing XI for Karachi Kings, never mind an international team.

Lol he won't learn from domestic cricket. The first class matches where teams barely play 70 overs. The way he will learn is by bowling long spells. Since that isn't possible at domestic level, this series was a chance to see what he could do.

Haris Sohail couldn't make PZ 11 yet he is a test regular. Shazbinda Farhan wasn't a started for Islamabad but has still made the T20 squad.

 

[786pk]

Zafar Gohar should be Shadab's partner.

The dude slept through his career unfortunately. Selectors aren't even considering him now

 

[mak36]

Lol he won't learn from domestic cricket. The first class matches where teams barely play 70 overs. The way he will learn is by bowling long spells. Since that isn't possible at domestic level, this series was a chance to see what he could do.

Haris Sohail couldn't make PZ 11 yet he is a test regular. Shazbinda Farhan wasn't a started for Islamabad but has still made the T20 squad.

Yes he will. Domestic cricket has its faults but it has its strengths. He struggled in the recent One Day Cup; there is no reason he should be playing international cricket as of yet.

You are talking as though international cricket is a playground.

 

[aloo paratha]

The dude slept through his career unfortunately. Selectors aren't even considering him now

Everybody makes mistakes.

 

[ads101]

Forgot Nawaz is in the squad. Play him too, Rest Hasan.

 

[Hasan123]

Yes he will. Domestic cricket has its faults but it has its strengths. He struggled in the recent One Day Cup; there is no reason he should be playing international cricket as of yet.

You are talking as though international cricket is a playground.

Our players will learn more from international cricket compared to domestic cricket.

 

[mak36]

Our players will learn more from international cricket compared to domestic cricket.

If that is enough of a reason to select someone for the international team we should go ahead and let every single domestic cricketer play international cricket.

 

[Hasan123]

If that is enough of a reason to select someone for the international team we should go ahead and let every single domestic cricketer play international cricket.

The only 1s who should be selected like this are the 1s with potential.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">78 runs conceded by Shadab Khan are the most he has ever conceded in a ODI<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SAvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SAvPAK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1090674227076915200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[jnaveen1980]

When you factor in his 42 ball stay he was going nowhere both with bat and ball

 

[Banter]

Shadab on the other hand, while having the disadvantage of not being accurate, has a lion's mindset. His first instinct is attack but he's not scared to come back and attack the batsmen when the batsmen are taking Shadab on. Priceless trait to have for a leg spinner, especially in ODIs.

Shadab's bowling throughout this series has been defensive, nowhere near attacking enough. And Pakistan has paid the price.

 

[ABMiller]

I guess Shadab Khan needs to be brought down to earth. This guy already thinks himself as a Super Star.

I won't be surprised if he goes Ahmed Shezhad or Umar Akmal's way in the future.

 

[shariqnoor]

Shadab's bowling throughout this series has been defensive, nowhere near attacking enough. And Pakistan has paid the price.

I wouldn't say defensive. He's just not accurate enough. Drops far too short too many times. I think he still looked for wickets but just didn't have the accuracy to continuously trouble the batsmen. Batsmen played defensive on his good deliveries knowing that a bad one was just around the corner and they duly dispatched it. I would still have Shadab as a leg spinner 1000 times over Yasir in ODIs.

 

[Hasan123]

I want to see Muhammad Irfan given a chance. He has done well in domestic cricket. [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] @Saj, is he playing in the PSL this year?

 

[gazza619]

Shadab is doing fine.

Yasir Shah’s place is in doubt in tests in UAE (nevermind in ODIs elsewhere)

 

[Abdullah719]

I want to see Muhammad Irfan given a chance. He has done well in domestic cricket. [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] @Saj, is he playing in the PSL this year?

He is in the Multan Sultans squad.

 

[Cric1234]

Shadab is doing fine.

Yasir Shah’s place is in doubt in tests in UAE (nevermind in ODIs elsewhere)

He's on his way to becoming another bits and pieces all rounder fine isn't the word he needs improvement was taken to the cleaners in a low scoring game which the most crucial out of all in the series.

 

[last_knight]

Shadab is going downhill now a days.

 

[Hasan123]

He is in the Multan Sultans squad.

I hope he plays all the games and does well. I'm sure he can do well in LO cricket for Pakistan.

 

[QalandarFan]

Shadab/Zafar has always been my suggestion for two spinners in the squad Imad can not be your second spinner in ODI's.

Dunno why with this looong home season in UAE we did not blood some new spinners like Usama, Irfan, Zafar or Ashgar...