"Shahid Afridi used to often tell me to convert to Islam": Danish Kaneria

[MenInG]

Former Pakistan leg-spinner Danish Kaneria has made serious allegations against his ex-teammate Shahid Afridi, accusing him of mistreatment towards him for being Hindu and also forcing Kaneria to convert to Islam.
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In an exclusive interview with Zee News, Kaneria claimed that during his cricketing days in the Pakistan team, Afridi used to treat him badly and even pressurised him to change his religion to Islam.

Kaneria also alleged that the PCB board, including their former chairman Mohammed Ijaz Butt, didn't pay heed to his pleas or complaints and strategised to keep the spinner out of the team.

Here are some excerpts from the interview:

On how Afridi mistreated him
“Shoaib Akhtar was the first person to talk about my problem in public. Shahid Afridi was the only player who always tried to degrade me. We used to play together for the same department, he used to keep me on the bench and didn’t let me play the one-day tournament."

"Senior players like Inzamam-ul-Haq, Waqar Younis, Akhtar, Moeen Khan, Rashid Latif always supported me."

"Afridi used to bench me whenever he was the captain. He used to ruin my whole domestic season even when I was performing well."

" I don't know what issue Afridi had with me but he always downgraded me. All these incidents were mentally disturbing for me."

On confronting Afridi

"I confronted Afridi numerous times. I tried to make him understand that he is mistreating me. However, I was luck that my other teammates were very supportive. I really enjoyed playing with them from the Day 1 of my career."

On his life-ban

"Afridi never supported me when I was banned for life. Instead, he was happy with it. Also, I didn't get any support from PCB when I got banned and Mohammed Ijaz Butt, who was the PCB chairman then, didn't even give me a fair chance to present my case and ignored me."

If Afridi forced him to convert to Islam

"Yes, Afridi used to often tell me to convert to Islam. But, I never used to take him seriously. I believe in my religion and it does not depend on cricket."

https://zeenews.india.com/cricket/e...ed-him-to-convert-to-islam-watch-2460260.html

 

[MenInG]

Afridi should respond to Kaneria.

 

[Dagestani_Eagle]

Afridi should respond to Kaneria.

Kaneria is chasing social media clout. Nothing else

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Kaneria claimed it on twitter that his youtube etc are his sole source of income now. So he's just bashing the biggest name in Pak Cricket to get publicity. Kaneria is a serial liar and a cheat.

Even if there is some truth in his claims, his words mean nothing now as he has lied so many times that there's no credibility in his words.

 

[Hextro]

Kaneria is a irrelevant ex player that's trying to stay relevant. People shouldn't give this guy attention.

 

[Hitman]

Doesn’t surprise me one bit.

 

[Zaz]

Theres needs to be an investigation If afridi did do this or kaneria is making things up action needs taken against them

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Theres needs to be an investigation If afridi did do this or kaneria is making things up action needs taken against them

Yes, if Afridi did it then he should apologize for his jahaalut and face the consequences, but this idiot should also not look at the glass being 100th portion empty.

Him (and his uncle Anil Dalpat) being Hindus did not have to face hurdles in making it all the way to Pak team.

If one Afridi was being stupid for a very short period of time then there were thousands who were behind him, supported him and became his fans, and cheered for him for years. And most of all, millions respected his religion.

There is no perfect joy ride for anyone. So no point in being a snow flake.

He should be thankful and feel blessed and proud that him being from a 2% minority in a country of 96% Muslims, yet he was given a fair chance to make it to 11 players from 200 million people.

Yes, Pakistan has its growing pains when it comes to minorities but these are not even the 1000th% of what’s happening to Muslim minorities in India.

He should be someone who proudly becomes the ambassador of Pakistan to show the world how a minority member can follow his dreams and achieve so much.

What else does he want? Indian citizenship? I truly hope he gets it.
We don’t want such imbeciles unfairly defaming his own country.
Is he proud of what his Hindu brethren doing to Muslims in India? Did he ever condemn that?

 

[MenInG]

Doesn’t surprise me one bit.

Which part?

 

[Hextro]

Yes, if Afridi did it then he should apologize for his jahaalut and face the consequences, but this idiot should also not look at the glass being 100th portion empty.

Him (and his uncle Anil Dalpat) being Hindus did not have to face hurdles in making it all the way to Pak team.

If one Afridi was being stupid for a very short period of time then there were thousands who were behind him, supported him and became his fans, and cheered for him for years. And most of all, millions respected his religion.

There is no perfect joy ride for anyone. So no point in being a snow flake.

He should be thankful and feel blessed and proud that him being from a 2% minority in a country of 96% Muslims, yet he was given a fair chance to make it to 11 players from 200 million people.

Yes, Pakistan has its growing pains when it comes to minorities but these are not even the 1000th% of what’s happening to Muslim minorities in India.

He should be someone who proudly becomes the ambassador of Pakistan to show the world how a minority member can follow his dreams and achieve so much.

What else does he want? Indian citizenship? I truly hope he gets it.
We don’t want such imbeciles unfairly defaming his own country.
Is he proud of what his Hindu brethren doing to Muslims in India? Did he ever condemn that?

He's just trying to create artifical drama to please his followers on YouTube and social media. We all know how much our neighbours love this type of stuff.

 

[Ashmal]

I am surprised that he hasn't yet blamed Afridi for plotting his conviction in match fixing.......what he is even waiting for, there's plenty of gullible Indians on YouTube(and this forum) who will give him the attention he craves for

 

[Loralai]

Given the toxic atmosphere created in the dressing room and the role religion played during the Inzamam years these allegations should be taken seriously.

Let's not forget we had the example of Ahmed Shehzad telling Dilshan to convert to Islam. Lets not forget Mohammad Yousuf trying to convert Daniel Vettori and also running after Australian cricketers to preach to them (https://www.dawn.com/news/1130051/ahmed-shehzad-the-traveling-evangelist). So it is perfectly possible a member of this same grouping was trying to convert Kaneria.

 

[Local.Dada]

While it may very well be Kaneria is attention seeking what are the odds this is right?

Ahmed Shehzad giving lecture to Dilshan
Inzi trying to convert Lara, Harbhajan Singh etc
Yusuf Youhana not just converted but became a preacher type person.
Waqar Younis happy about a player doing namaz in front of non-Muslims.
Saeed Anwar

I wonder why people are so shocked and surprised about this.

 

[Local.Dada]

He's just trying to create artifical drama to please his followers on YouTube and social media. We all know how much our neighbours love this type of stuff.

This sounds so surreal and unbelievable right?

 

[topspin]

Don't forget Afridi's favourite team mate, Ahmed Shehzad openly tried to convert Dilshan and it was caught on the mic.

I think the PCB needs to investigate this and make an example of Afridi if the allegations made by Kaneria made are found to be true.

If Pakistan is to progress in cricket and as a nation it must secularise.

 

[Ashmal]

Given the toxic atmosphere created in the dressing room and the role religion played during the Inzamam years these allegations should be taken seriously.

Let's not forget we had the example of Ahmed Shehzad telling Dilshan to convert to Islam. Lets not forget Mohammad Yousuf trying to convert Daniel Vettori and also running after Australian cricketers to preach to them (https://www.dawn.com/news/1130051/ahmed-shehzad-the-traveling-evangelist). So it is perfectly possible a member of this same grouping was trying to convert Kaneria.

Toxic atmosphere had nothing to do with religiosity....Pakistani dressing room has never been the friendliest place since forever.

If Kaneria has any proof to back his claims he should come out and present it, if not, then he shouldn't expect anyone to take the words of a convicted cheat and liar like himself, seriously.

 

[Hextro]

This sounds so surreal and unbelievable right?

Cut the fake outrage.

 

[Oneking]

With all the drama going around in India, from SHIV ARMY, I think he is just looking to add more YouTube followers nothing more.
Afridi probably said something at one point or another but we won’t. Know the context of that conversation,
He needs to prove that, it’s amazing this guy disappears for 1-2 years then come out and criticize either PCB or former players and then disappear.
Afridi shouldn’t get involved in social debate but should strongly reply to his allegations with defamation law suit.

 

[Local.Dada]

Cut the fake outrage.

There is absolutely 0 outrage because no one thinks this as something that is unexpected. Afridi is the same guy who claimed to have broken his TV due to the content didn’t confirm to his religious sensibilities.

 

[silentkiller187]

Funny how he has only remembered this now, views must be down on his youtube channel.

 

[Savak]

These are serious allegations. Surprised Afridi is still maintaining a strong silence. Afridi on the other hand has not been shying away from publicly criticizing Imran Khan for his performance as PM and how he was a huge disappointment to him and his family.

 

[ataullah]

Nothing wrong with encouraging non muslims to convert as long as they aren't forced. As muslims we believe its one of the biggest blessings so why shouldn't we encourage others to accept too? We have become so weak that we are questioning a person for doing what the Quran is commanding to do:

ادع الی سبیل ربک بالحکمت والموعظت الحسنت

Afridi is acting upon this verse however he must invite to Islam with wisdom not force if Kaneria is saying the truth

 

[BreadPakoda]

While it may very well be Kaneria is attention seeking what are the odds this is right?

Ahmed Shehzad giving lecture to Dilshan
Inzi trying to convert Lara, Harbhajan Singh etc
Yusuf Youhana not just converted but became a preacher type person.
Waqar Younis happy about a player doing namaz in front of non-Muslims.
Saeed Anwar

I wonder why people are so shocked and surprised about this.

There's a very revealing twitter thread with legit videos of all these cricketers. Must be so irritating for non-Muslims to be around them

 

[sweep_shot]

Why bring it up now? Why not before?

Unnecessary drama.

 

[Babeikh]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if this is true and a pretty sad indictment of the culture in the team for a period.

Also wouldn't surprise me if Kaneria is lying given his fixing and corruption links.

 

[MenInG]

Nothing wrong with encouraging non muslims to convert as long as they aren't forced. As muslims we believe its one of the biggest blessings so why shouldn't we encourage others to accept too? We have become so weak that we are questioning a person for doing what the Quran is commanding to do:

ادع الی سبیل ربک بالحکمت والموعظت الحسنت

Afridi is acting upon this verse however he must invite to Islam with wisdom not force if Kaneria is saying the truth

Its very normal for Muslims to do da'wa in that way but what is/would be wrong is if Kaneria was told that he could not progress if he didn't convert.

 

[gazza619]

What a loser and a shame to Pakistan is this Kaneria.

 

[Loralai]

Cricketers should focus on cricket and not converting other players.

There are other Muslim players in the world too, such as Hashim Amla, Moeen Ali, Adil Rashid, Mohammad Shami, Farvez Maharoof, Afghanistan and Bangladeshi players, but we only have these kinds of stories with our Pakistani players. Food for thought about the role religion has come to play in our society.

 

[MenInG]

Afridi has denied Kaneria claims:

"He is accusing me to get cheap fame and money"

“Why is he placing allegations against me now? Why did he not complain to the Pakistan Cricket Board and Habib Bank Limited about my behaviour towards him at that time?"

“He is giving interviews to our rival country and evoking religious sentiments"

 

[topspin]

Cricketers should focus on cricket and not converting other players.

There are other Muslim players in the world too, such as Hashim Amla, Moeen Ali, Adil Rashid, Mohammad Shami, Farvez Maharoof, Afghanistan and Bangladeshi players, but we only have these kinds of stories with our Pakistani players. Food for thought about the role religion has come to play in our society.

Precisely this.

If Pakistan is to progress in cricket and more importantly as a nation it must secularise.

 

[Hextro]

Afridi has denied Kaneria claims:

"He is accusing me to get cheap fame and money"

“Why is he placing allegations against me now? Why did he not complain to the Pakistan Cricket Board and Habib Bank Limited about my behaviour towards him at that time?"

“He is giving interviews to our rival country and evoking religious sentiments"

Afridi shouldn't have replied to this clout chaser. Watching Kaneria's videos on youtube gives me second-hand embarrassment.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

When someone in minority has a viewpoint about being mistreated, only their word matters.

Majority speaking for a minority person or worse, guessing at their intentions is pure evil and root of much that is wrong with the world today.

Also, even though Kaneria is a proven fixer, it does not mean his case for discrimination should be brushed under the carpet on account of character.

It's not like Pakistani society is above discrimination. All societies have it.

Kaneria's claims should be investigated to give him closure.

 

[arif_2021]

There are always time limited clauses on all cases.
Kaneria retired atleast 7-8 years ago (i cannot recall when he actually retired), and he did not officially complain - either he didnt have the courage or he himself did not take it seriously at that time assuming Afridi tried to convert him.

The point is, he did not convert.

The issue is not just what someone said, but also whether there was actual damage (in this case - being converted to Muslim in Kaneria's perspective). He did not follow through with the points of "discrimination".

I dont see any basis to his case or allegation.

PCB should look into this and stop his pension if he still gets it. This is harming Afridi's reputation.

Afridi should file a defamation case.

It seems like Kaneria hates Afridi. They had a professional rivalry where Afridi was a far superior player, but it seems that this is getting personal.

 

[TheSultan]

When someone in minority has a viewpoint about being mistreated, only their word matters.

Majority speaking for a minority person or worse, guessing at their intentions is pure evil and root of much that is wrong with the world today.

Also, even though Kaneria is a proven fixer, it does not mean his case for discrimination should be brushed under the carpet on account of character.

It's not like Pakistani society is above discrimination. All societies have it.

Kaneria's claims should be investigated to give him closure.

Where is the discrimination? When he stopped playing he was the most capped spinner in pakistan history!

It’s yet to be proven what happened between him and afridi, but even if it did, it is unfortunate and there will always be some random situations where someone makes inappropriate comments. However, what we need to decide is if it is instititional. Quite clearly it isn’t considering how many matches he played and dare I say sometimes when he was bowling very poorly.

In fact I’d go as far to say that he held the development back of some of our more deserving domestic spinners because he was “favoured” by the team management.

 

[Savak]

Rather than giving daily statements against pti and ik, Shahid Afridi should be man enough to respond to these allegations

 

[James]

Unfortunately because of Kaneria’s past and confirmed lack of integrity it is now difficult to trust his word about anything, whether he is indeed telling the truth on this or any particular issue. That is the lasting consequence for a person when they are a proven fixer and liar.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Don't forget Afridi's favourite team mate, Ahmed Shehzad openly tried to convert Dilshan and it was caught on the mic.

I think the PCB needs to investigate this and make an example of Afridi if the allegations made by Kaneria made are found to be true.

If Pakistan is to progress in cricket and as a nation it must secularise.

Yousuf tried to convert Vettori too lol.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

While something like this happening would not surprise me one bit considering Shahzad once tried to convert Dilshan while Yousuf once tried to convert Vettori, Kaneria does not have much credibility when it comes to speaking the truth and for that he has only himself to blame.

So I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.

 

[TheSultan]

While something like this happening would not surprise me one bit considering Shahzad once tried to convert Dilshan while Yousuf once tried to convert Vettori, Kaneria does not have much credibility when it comes to speaking the truth and for that he has only himself to blame.

So I would take anything he says with a grain of salt.

What does “try to convert mean”. If it is simply giving Da’wah (invitation with information) to someone in a conversation, there’s nothing wrong.

Of course it’s wrong to force someone to convert. But even that - how can one cricketer force another cricketer to do anything! Captains can’t even get their team mates to stop playing poor shots and we are supposed to believe that they are “forcing” some of their peers to change religion!

Seriously these guys need to get more imaginative with their accusations.

 

[RexRex]

Has everyone forgotten how Shoaib Akhtar said that Kaneria was disciriminated against due to his religion ?

Afridi is just an awful person. I always suspected it was him after his history of prejudiced comments made in public.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What does “try to convert mean”. If it is simply giving Da’wah (invitation with information) to someone in a conversation, there’s nothing wrong.

Of course it’s wrong to force someone to convert. But even that - how can one cricketer force another cricketer to do anything! Captains can’t even get their team mates to stop playing poor shots and we are supposed to believe that they are “forcing” some of their peers to change religion!

Seriously these guys need to get more imaginative with their accusations.

Its this kind of thinking that has turned our cricketers into exclusive spokesmen for the Tableeghi Jamaat.

Religion is a private matter. Once you start infringing your views on others it ceases to be a private matter. Certain people badly need to understand that just because you are passionate about religion does not mean that everyone else is too. Certainly a professional cricketer whose job it is to play cricket for his country has no place giving religious invitations to cricketers from other teams. If you see nothing wrong with this kind of behavior from a professional cricketer than I'm sorry to say but you are just as out of your mind as Yousuf and Shahzad.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Where is the discrimination? When he stopped playing he was the most capped spinner in pakistan history!

It’s yet to be proven what happened between him and afridi, but even if it did, it is unfortunate and there will always be some random situations where someone makes inappropriate comments. However, what we need to decide is if it is instititional. Quite clearly it isn’t considering how many matches he played and dare I say sometimes when he was bowling very poorly.

In fact I’d go as far to say that he held the development back of some of our more deserving domestic spinners because he was “favoured” by the team management.

My viewpoint on discrimination is strict. If someone says she/he is being discriminated against, that should be reason enough for a full investigation.

I see Afridi (active) and PCB chairman (passive) as two persons accused. We know Shoaib corroborated that charge. It's not hard to establish in a retroactive proceeding by inviting players of that time to testify and establish guilt or innocence. Good countries try to correct wrongs of the past. Look at Azim Rafiq's case.

Kaneria's performance is irrelevant here.

I saw people on PP did that to Azim Rafiq as well - he was a bad cricketer and yet got chances so there must be no racism.

In fact, facing racism inside dressing room must in itself be performance destroying.

Tomorrow if someone in another country accuses their board of discrimination, you won't point to that person's performances. You'd investigate the specific charge.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Kaneria is a shameless liar, with zero credibility and deserves everything he has got so far in the past few years. A toxic individual, who PCB should outright ban from even commenting on cricket, much like Saleem Malik.

Afridi might have have done this, but these allegations should have been put forward when they happened, not now to gain cheap publicity. What’s more dumb are the sheep that reside on this forum, believing the claims of a liar and a beghairat human being like Kaneria.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Victims sometimes take longggg time to process and accept the fact. It's easy to say why Kaneria didn't come forward earlier but imagine being a single black guy in a room, a brown immigrant, or being a minority in your motherland. Many people go through systemic racism and only realize it after the fact with proper education. These situations are very complex and sometimes it's hard to accept that someone you admired is the abuser. It's a fact that minorities are treated unfairly in subcontinent.

Also there is no such thing as good person or bad person from psychology viewpoint. People who you see as good could be bad to others, A good person can be a bad father. A person caught lying could be a great friend, brother, father and son.

Just because Kaneria was caught lying in past doesn't mean his other life experiences should be ridiculed as well. He made a mistake, he was caught and paid the price with the ban.

These allegations should be investigated.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Lol why would a believe a fixer over Afridi , Afridi has a lot of issues but at least he didnt sell his country .

 

[Savak]

Afridi runs a foundation which has provided services and supported minorities in Pakistan. Doubt these allegations are true.

 

[TheSultan]

Its this kind of thinking that has turned our cricketers into exclusive spokesmen for the Tableeghi Jamaat.

Religion is a private matter. Once you start infringing your views on others it ceases to be a private matter. Certain people badly need to understand that just because you are passionate about religion does not mean that everyone else is too. Certainly a professional cricketer whose job it is to play cricket for his country has no place giving religious invitations to cricketers from other teams. If you see nothing wrong with this kind of behavior from a professional cricketer than I'm sorry to say but you are just as out of your mind as Yousuf and Shahzad.

What kind of thinking are you even talking about? You come out with a random accusation of yousuf trying to convert vettori without any context.

Please provide a link with full context. How did the conversation start? What was discussed? What did yousuf say? What did vettori say? Why were they discussing Islam in the first place?

If it was vettori asking yousuf about his beard and his conversion and during that conversation yousuf tried a bit of da’wah, what’s wrong with that. Absolutely nothing. This is nothing to do with TJ, these discussions take place all over the world from varying Islamic backgrounds.

If yousuf randomly walked up to Vettori and said “hey, you should convert to Islam!” That’s a bit stupid, not the etiquette of Da’wah and highly unlikely.

If Yousuf went up to Vettori and said convert now or else, then that’s completely wrong and definitely not the etiquette of Da’wah.

 

[Varun]

What kind of thinking are you even talking about? You come out with a random accusation of yousuf trying to convert vettori without any context.

Please provide a link with full context. How did the conversation start? What was discussed? What did yousuf say? What did vettori say? Why were they discussing Islam in the first place?

If it was vettori asking yousuf about his beard and his conversion and during that conversation yousuf tried a bit of da’wah, what’s wrong with that. Absolutely nothing. This is nothing to do with TJ, these discussions take place all over the world from varying Islamic backgrounds.

If yousuf randomly walked up to Vettori and said “hey, you should convert to Islam!” That’s a bit stupid, not the etiquette of Da’wah and highly unlikely.

If Yousuf went up to Vettori and said convert now or else, then that’s completely wrong and definitely not the etiquette of Da’wah.

Shehzad did something like that right?

Threatened hell fire against Dilshan or some such.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Victims sometimes take longggg time to process and accept the fact. It's easy to say why Kaneria didn't come forward earlier but imagine being a single black guy in a room, a brown immigrant, or being a minority in your motherland. Many people go through systemic racism and only realize it after the fact with proper education. These situations are very complex and sometimes it's hard to accept that someone you admired is the abuser. It's a fact that minorities are treated unfairly in subcontinent.

Also there is no such thing as good person or bad person from psychology viewpoint. People who you see as good could be bad to others, A good person can be a bad father. A person caught lying could be a great friend, brother, father and son.

Just because Kaneria was caught lying in past doesn't mean his other life experiences should be ridiculed as well. He made a mistake, he was caught and paid the price with the ban.

These allegations should be investigated.

The last paragraph, if you think Kaneria's fixing was just one mistake, just go and watch his youtube channel and twitter and you can decide for yourself if he seems like a good person or not.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Victims sometimes take longggg time to process and accept the fact. It's easy to say why Kaneria didn't come forward earlier but imagine being a single black guy in a room, a brown immigrant, or being a minority in your motherland. Many people go through systemic racism and only realize it after the fact with proper education. These situations are very complex and sometimes it's hard to accept that someone you admired is the abuser. It's a fact that minorities are treated unfairly in subcontinent.

Also there is no such thing as good person or bad person from psychology viewpoint. People who you see as good could be bad to others, A good person can be a bad father. A person caught lying could be a great friend, brother, father and son.

Just because Kaneria was caught lying in past doesn't mean his other life experiences should be ridiculed as well. He made a mistake, he was caught and paid the price with the ban.

These allegations should be investigated.

“Systematic Racism” you said??

Is that what caused him to reach the Pak team of 11 final players from a population of 200 million people?

 

[Markhor]

I'm the first to accept Pakistan has a long and shameful history of discrimination against minorities. Discrimination is even codified in the Constitution so it's not a stretch to believe such an instance could happen in a Pakistan cricket environment that has steadily Islamized over the last two decades with our players generally originating from more rural, conservative backgrounds.

Seeing Shahid Afridi's brainless antics for 20 years, I don't doubt he'd be capable of uttering such things. I also take the point about systemic racism taking time to process and come forward about.

However it's like the "believe women" mantra after the Me Too allegations. Nobody should be automatically "believed" on a set of assumptions about victims always being right. In a judicial system, you convict on the basis of evidence beyond reasonable doubt and yes, the character of the accuser is taken into consideration.

And the character of Danish Kaneria is for everyone to see. He lied for years about his involvement in the Essex fixing scandal. His bid to overturn the ECB's life ban was described as "totally without merit" by the UK Court of Appeals. The only player who has corroborated Kaneria's allegations is Shoaib Akhtar - another notorious liar who's derived a post-cricket career by selling the remaining fragments of his dignity for YouTube clicks.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What kind of thinking are you even talking about? You come out with a random accusation of yousuf trying to convert vettori without any context.

Please provide a link with full context. How did the conversation start? What was discussed? What did yousuf say? What did vettori say? Why were they discussing Islam in the first place?

If it was vettori asking yousuf about his beard and his conversion and during that conversation yousuf tried a bit of da’wah, what’s wrong with that. Absolutely nothing. This is nothing to do with TJ, these discussions take place all over the world from varying Islamic backgrounds.

If yousuf randomly walked up to Vettori and said “hey, you should convert to Islam!” That’s a bit stupid, not the etiquette of Da’wah and highly unlikely.

If Yousuf went up to Vettori and said convert now or else, then that’s completely wrong and definitely not the etiquette of Da’wah.

Remind me of the last time an Indian player came up to a Pakistani player and politely offered him an invitation to join Hinduism? Or the last time an English and Australian player came up to a non-Christian player and politely offered them an invitation to join Christianity?

Why is that only our players are afflicted by this desire to bring others into the fold of their own religion? Are they cricketers or are they missionaries and evangelists?

Since you are clearly off your rocker, I'll repeat again: Religion has no place in sports! Just because you love religion doesn't mean everyone else does too. And stop acting like what Yousuf did was completely normal. It wasn't! There is also a very good reason why you will never catch a player from any other country besides Pakistan doing this.

And that's because other players (including Muslim players from England, South Africa, India and Bangladesh) know that their job is to play cricket. Not to be official brand ambassadors for the Tableeghi Jamaat.

Also, Ever heard of something called Google? Its laughable that you are feigning ignorance at what Yousuf did. If you want to advance your knowledge on the matter take the trouble of Googling it. Not my job to expand your knowledge.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Shehzad did something like that right?

Threatened hell fire against Dilshan or some such.

This is from an article published in DAWN in 2014 titled: Ahmed Shehzad - the traveling evangelist

During the last one day international on Pakistan's latest tour of Sri Lanka, Shehzad was recorded on camera telling Tillakaratne Dilshan, after he scored a 50 and won the match for his team, that “if you are a non-Muslim and you turn Muslim, no matter whatever you do in your life, straight to heaven.”

Apparently Dilshan must have said something along the lines of “Thanks, but no thanks,” to which he later added, “Then be ready for the fire.” Presumably hellfire.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What kind of thinking are you even talking about? You come out with a random accusation of yousuf trying to convert vettori without any context.

Please provide a link with full context. How did the conversation start? What was discussed? What did yousuf say? What did vettori say? Why were they discussing Islam in the first place?

If it was vettori asking yousuf about his beard and his conversion and during that conversation yousuf tried a bit of da’wah, what’s wrong with that. Absolutely nothing. This is nothing to do with TJ, these discussions take place all over the world from varying Islamic backgrounds.

If yousuf randomly walked up to Vettori and said “hey, you should convert to Islam!” That’s a bit stupid, not the etiquette of Da’wah and highly unlikely.

If Yousuf went up to Vettori and said convert now or else, then that’s completely wrong and definitely not the etiquette of Da’wah.

Oh and yeah, Yousuf tried to convert Vettori. He didn't politely offer a "da'wah' as you claim---eventhough you know nothing about the matter---he tried to proselytize the guy. Which isn't the least bit surprising considering that was the culture that Yousuf came out of under Inzamam's captaincy. Where religious exhibitionism and staying up all night praying (instead of practicing) were seen as virtuous ideals.

Guys like Shoaib Akhtar, Younis Khan and Abdul Razzaq who did not care for Inzamam's manipulative, religious-driven ways of gaining loyalty from other players were cast aside. Everyone knows full well why Younis didn't become captain after Inzamam's retirement. And its because the Tableegi clan had completely infiltrated the team and was never going to let a guy like Younis who had no interest in religious exhibitionism become captain. Its also no secret that Yousuf was one of the prime instigators against Younis. Because that's just the kind of back-biting coward that Yousuf is and always has been.

https://www.indianmuslimobserver.com/2012/10/pakistans-islamic-cricket-mixing.html

https://iyerdeepak.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/religion-and-pakistani-cricket/

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What kind of thinking are you even talking about? You come out with a random accusation of yousuf trying to convert vettori without any context.

Please provide a link with full context. How did the conversation start? What was discussed? What did yousuf say? What did vettori say? Why were they discussing Islam in the first place?

If it was vettori asking yousuf about his beard and his conversion and during that conversation yousuf tried a bit of da’wah, what’s wrong with that. Absolutely nothing. This is nothing to do with TJ, these discussions take place all over the world from varying Islamic backgrounds.

If yousuf randomly walked up to Vettori and said “hey, you should convert to Islam!” That’s a bit stupid, not the etiquette of Da’wah and highly unlikely.

If Yousuf went up to Vettori and said convert now or else, then that’s completely wrong and definitely not the etiquette of Da’wah.

An article in The News from 2009:

SYDNEY: Most of Pakistan’s cricketers chose to stay at their hotel right next to the Sydney Harbour on New Year’s Eve waiting to see ane explosion of colour that marked the start of 2010 here.

But their captain Mohammad Yousuf had different plans. Yousuf spent his New Year’s Eve at the grand mosque in West Sydney where hundreds of people, mostly Pakistanis, turned up to meet him.

Yousuf had accepted an invitation to go to the Rootey Hill Mosque and told its management that he will also try to bring along some of his other teammates.

But in the end, he was the only one to turn up at the mosque.

Yousuf told people there that he tries to preach Islam on his cricket tours abroad, saying that he invited top cricketers like West Indian great Brian Lara and New Zealand captain Daniel Vettori in a bid to provide them with a better understanding of Islam.

“We had a session with Brian Lara when he came to Pakistan and told him things about Islam he didn’t know,” said the Pakistan captain, who began his cicketing career as a Christian but converted to Islam in 2005 changing his name from Yousuf Youhana to Mohammad Yousuf.

“When we were in New Zealand last month, I invited Vettori for a similar session,” he said.

 

[TheSultan]

An article in The News from 2009:

SYDNEY: Most of Pakistan’s cricketers chose to stay at their hotel right next to the Sydney Harbour on New Year’s Eve waiting to see ane explosion of colour that marked the start of 2010 here.

But their captain Mohammad Yousuf had different plans. Yousuf spent his New Year’s Eve at the grand mosque in West Sydney where hundreds of people, mostly Pakistanis, turned up to meet him.

Yousuf had accepted an invitation to go to the Rootey Hill Mosque and told its management that he will also try to bring along some of his other teammates.

But in the end, he was the only one to turn up at the mosque.

Yousuf told people there that he tries to preach Islam on his cricket tours abroad, saying that he invited top cricketers like West Indian great Brian Lara and New Zealand captain Daniel Vettori in a bid to provide them with a better understanding of Islam.

“We had a session with Brian Lara when he came to Pakistan and told him things about Islam he didn’t know,” said the Pakistan captain, who began his cicketing career as a Christian but converted to Islam in 2005 changing his name from Yousuf Youhana to Mohammad Yousuf.

“When we were in New Zealand last month, I invited Vettori for a similar session,” he said.

You still don’t know what happened in that conversation. I don’t know either so I cannot judge. Depending on how the conversation went his approach could be right or wrong. Has Vettori complained about it?

Why should I google - you came out with the accusation and have concluded what he did was wrong. You are taking one thing that he said and drawing your own conclusions based on whatever self hating bias you have.

Enough of the self hating - have some self respect.

 

[TheSultan]

Oh and yeah, Yousuf tried to convert Vettori. He didn't politely offer a "da'wah' as you claim---eventhough you know nothing about the matter---he tried to proselytize the guy. Which isn't the least bit surprising considering that was the culture that Yousuf came out of under Inzamam's captaincy. Where religious exhibitionism and staying up all night praying (instead of practicing) were seen as virtuous ideals.

Guys like Shoaib Akhtar, Younis Khan and Abdul Razzaq who did not care for Inzamam's manipulative, religious-driven ways of gaining loyalty from other players were cast aside. Everyone knows full well why Younis didn't become captain after Inzamam's retirement. And its because the Tableegi clan had completely infiltrated the team and was never going to let a guy like Younis who had no interest in religious exhibitionism become captain. Its also no secret that Yousuf was one of the prime instigators against Younis. Because that's just the kind of back-biting coward that Yousuf is and always has been.

https://www.indianmuslimobserver.com/2012/10/pakistans-islamic-cricket-mixing.html

https://iyerdeepak.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/religion-and-pakistani-cricket/

What kind of rubbish is this. So you are claiming Shoaib Malik was tableeghi and he got the chance to captain. You seem to be losing your marbles on this subject.

I don’t really care for TJ either, but your POV is a very common and simplistic POV that people who have some self loathing issues use. Have some more layers to yourself.

 

[TheSultan]

Wayne Parnell converted due to Hashim Amla - do you have a problem with Amla too?

And even if you did, would Parnell agree with you?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What kind of rubbish is this. So you are claiming Shoaib Malik was tableeghi and he got the chance to captain. You seem to be losing your marbles on this subject.

I don’t really care for TJ either, but your POV is a very common and simplistic POV that people who have some self loathing issues use. Have some more layers to yourself.

You still don’t know what happened in that conversation. I don’t know either so I cannot judge. Depending on how the conversation went his approach could be right or wrong. Has Vettori complained about it?

Why should I google - you came out with the accusation and have concluded what he did was wrong. You are taking one thing that he said and drawing your own conclusions based on whatever self hating bias you have.

Enough of the self hating - have some self respect.

Have some self-respect? That's rich coming from you, mate.

And this is more proof and evidence than you have provided in any of your posts. Atleast it is an assertion supported by more than one person. Which is not something that can be said for anything that you have said here.

That said, I am not surprised by any of your statements, nor your morally-superior way of talking. Because it is precisely this kind of morally-superior, religiously-driven right-wing mentality that has penetrated every facet of life in Pakistan. So its only natural that an average joe such as yourself is going to be in the same league. All I ask is that you keep your sermonizing to yourself. Because I could care less for any of it...or anything else you have to say.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You still don’t know what happened in that conversation. I don’t know either so I cannot judge. Depending on how the conversation went his approach could be right or wrong. Has Vettori complained about it?

Why should I google - you came out with the accusation and have concluded what he did was wrong. You are taking one thing that he said and drawing your own conclusions based on whatever self hating bias you have.

Enough of the self hating - have some self respect.

Also, you don't know me at all. So to say that I have "self-hating/self-loathing bias" just goes to show the height and extent of your delusional mindset.

 

[Justcrazy]

Nothing wrong with encouraging non muslims to convert as long as they aren't forced. As muslims we believe its one of the biggest blessings so why shouldn't we encourage others to accept too? We have become so weak that we are questioning a person for doing what the Quran is commanding to do:

ادع الی سبیل ربک بالحکمت والموعظت الحسنت

Afridi is acting upon this verse however he must invite to Islam with wisdom not force if Kaneria is saying the truth

Yes he should encourage people toward Islam, but he cannot downplay someone for that reason. He cannot mix cricket with Islam. Islam gives rights to disbelievers , and Afridi has no authority to challenge that.

 

[silentkiller187]

Former Pakistan leg-spinner Danish Kaneria has accused Shahid Afridi of instigating people in the name of religion.

“India is not our enemy. Our enemies are those who instigate people in the name of religion. If you consider India as your enemy, then don’t ever go to any Indian media channel,” tweeted Kaneria on Monday. The spinner has bagged 261 wickets in 61 Test matches for Pakistan.

“When I raised my voice against forced conversion, I was threatened that my career would be destroyed,” he added.

It all started when Kaneria in one of his interviews revealed that Shahid Afridi forced him to convert to Islam.

“Yes, Afridi used to often tell me to convert to Islam. But, I never used to take him seriously. I believe in my religion and it does not depend on cricket,” Kanera had told Zee News.

A couple of days later, Shahih Afridi responded strongly to Kaneria’s accusation.

“If my attitude was bad then why he did not complain to the Pakistan Cricket Board or the department he was playing for. He is giving interviews to our enemy country which can incite religious sentiments. And the person saying all this, look at his own character,” Afridi was quoted by the news.com.pk.

Afridi also slammed Kaneria for defaming the country’s name in the spot-fixing, which ended his career. Kaneria is facing a ban for his involvement in a spot-fixing case.

“He is accusing me to get cheap fame and make money. Everyone knows about his character.”

“Kaneria was like my younger brother and I played with him in the department for many years,” said Afridi.

https://indianexpress.com/article/s...ver-his-religious-sentiments-remarks-7907860/

 

[TheSultan]

This is from an article published in DAWN in 2014 titled: Ahmed Shehzad - the traveling evangelist

During the last one day international on Pakistan's latest tour of Sri Lanka, Shehzad was recorded on camera telling Tillakaratne Dilshan, after he scored a 50 and won the match for his team, that “if you are a non-Muslim and you turn Muslim, no matter whatever you do in your life, straight to heaven.”

Apparently Dilshan must have said something along the lines of “Thanks, but no thanks,” to which he later added, “Then be ready for the fire.” Presumably hellfire.

Yes this is an example of ignorance/jahalat on Shehzad’s part. Whatever the punishment for personal/offensive sledging should apply here.

 

[TheSultan]

Have some self-respect? That's rich coming from you, mate.

And this is more proof and evidence than you have provided in any of your posts. Atleast it is an assertion supported by more than one person. Which is not something that can be said for anything that you have said here.

That said, I am not surprised by any of your statements, nor your morally-superior way of talking. Because it is precisely this kind of morally-superior, religiously-driven right-wing mentality that has penetrated every facet of life in Pakistan. So its only natural that an average joe such as yourself is going to be in the same league. All I ask is that you keep your sermonizing to yourself. Because I could care less for any of it...or anything else you have to say.

Morally superior? Religiously-driven right-wing mentality? What are you on about? You seem to have lost your marbles mate. Take a deep breath and get a grip!

I am just asking you to provide some evidence of your issue with Yousuf speaking to Vettori about Islam. Show me what the context is. We don’t know.

You seem to be the one who is trying to act like Judge, Jury and Executioner against Yousuf. I am actually being the more open minded person here and asking you to provide some facts and context.

All you have is Yousuf provided information to Vettori about Islam.

Ok, and?

What else happened?

How did the conversation start?

Did Yousuf grab Vettori by the collar and say “hey listen to me about Islam”?

Did Vettori show some interest in Yousuf’s conversion?

We don’t know.

And if you do know then provide some evidence fella otherwise your foaming at the mouth for no reason.

 

[sabre1486]

i mean afridi's previous history does include casual sexism and misogyny so this is not surprising. Kaneria's fall from grace due to fixing will lend less credibility to his claim but yes the overt religiosity in Pakistan cricket team has definitely been an issue.

 

[daytrader]

Nothing wrong with encouraging non muslims to convert as long as they aren't forced. As muslims we believe its one of the biggest blessings so why shouldn't we encourage others to accept too? We have become so weak that we are questioning a person for doing what the Quran is commanding to do:

ادع الی سبیل ربک بالحکمت والموعظت الحسنت

Afridi is acting upon this verse however he must invite to Islam with wisdom not force if Kaneria is saying the truth

It should be done through one's character not imposing beliefs on others. Our first jihad is to improve ourselves

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Morally superior? Religiously-driven right-wing mentality? What are you on about? You seem to have lost your marbles mate. Take a deep breath and get a grip!

I am just asking you to provide some evidence of your issue with Yousuf speaking to Vettori about Islam. Show me what the context is. We don’t know.

You seem to be the one who is trying to act like Judge, Jury and Executioner against Yousuf. I am actually being the more open minded person here and asking you to provide some facts and context.

All you have is Yousuf provided information to Vettori about Islam.

Ok, and?

What else happened?

How did the conversation start?

Did Yousuf grab Vettori by the collar and say “hey listen to me about Islam”?

Did Vettori show some interest in Yousuf’s conversion?

We don’t know.

And if you do know then provide some evidence fella otherwise your foaming at the mouth for no reason.

I've provided plenty of evidence. But I know full well that no amount of evidence will make a difference to a person such as yourself. Who somehow still can't come to grips with the fact that this obsession with religion is what drove this team into the ground from 2007-10. Also, if you are expecting me to provide you the transcript of their conversation than all I can say is that you are out of your mind.

I already quoted an article from The News from 2009 that accurately depicts what captain Yousuf was upto while Pakistan was struggling to win a single match in Australia. Spoiler Alert: They didn't win a single one. And his attempts to convert Vettori was something that was widely reported at the time and common knowledge among any fan who was watching Pakistan at the time. But i guess you were living under a rock which is why you are completely oblivious to it.

At any rate, if you want to continue to expand your knowledge on the matter go and do some research. I had absolutely no obligation to provide you with all this information but still did, And yet you remain ungrateful eventhough I helped clear many misconceptions you previously had. So sorry, but from here on out, you're on your own.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

One of the biggest reasons why I find Kaneria's claims dubious is because I distinctly remember reading (in a book or an article) that during the 2004 or 2006 tour Afridi and Shoaib Akhtar used to eat food with Yuvraj and Harbhajan in the same hotel room on a regular basis. This is something that was mentioned in the book/article I read in passing and the reason was because the four guys were good friends.

Again, I don't remember where I read this but if it was a book it was either Pundits From Pakistan or Unquiet Ones and if it was an article than it must have been one written during the time of these tours.

If Afridi didn't have a problem eating food with those guys, why would he have had a problem eating food with Kaneria?

 

[MenInG]

This thread is about Afridi and Kaneria only

Discussions relating to religion etc lets keep for TPS

 

[TheSultan]

I've provided plenty of evidence. But I know full well that no amount of evidence will make a difference to a person such as yourself. Who somehow still can't come to grips with the fact that this obsession with religion is what drove this team into the ground from 2007-10. Also, if you are expecting me to provide you the transcript of their conversation than all I can say is that you are out of your mind.

I already quoted an article from The News from 2009 that accurately depicts what captain Yousuf was upto while Pakistan was struggling to win a single match in Australia. Spoiler Alert: They didn't win a single one. And his attempts to convert Vettori was something that was widely reported at the time and common knowledge among any fan who was watching Pakistan at the time. But i guess you were living under a rock which is why you are completely oblivious to it.

At any rate, if you want to continue to expand your knowledge on the matter go and do some research. I had absolutely no obligation to provide you with all this information but still did, And yet you remain ungrateful eventhough I helped clear many misconceptions you previously had. So sorry, but from here on out, you're on your own.

Your article from The News said while the rest of the team were watching fireworks on New Year’s Eve, he went to a mosque! What’s wrong with that? On New Year’s Eve most teams have some kind of social event even on tour. Yousuf went to a Mosque - shoot him why don’t you!

And in that same article, it did not say he did any “invitations” on that particular tour to Australia. It said that he said in the past he had invited players like Lara and on the last Tour to New Zealand Vettori (where incidentally Pakistan drew 1-1).

So the information provided in that article shows me nothing wrong with his conduct.

If you want to read something in to it due to your conscious/unconscious bias, go right ahead. But it is your interpretation. It is not a fact.

And just to be clear this right now is not an Islamic discussion, it is just a discussion on “provide me facts with accusations”. You haven’t done that.

 

[Champ_Pal]

As long as Afridi did not force Kaneria to accept Islam, this should be a nonissue.

Asking someone to convert should not be a big deal. Kaneria is clearly looking to play victim here. Why say all these things decades after?

 

[Bewal Express]

Kaneria is a drama queen and Afridi is an idiot. What to believe is the question

 

[cricketAXEpert]

Former Pakistan leg-spinner Danish Kaneria has made serious allegations against his ex-teammate Shahid Afridi, accusing him of mistreatment towards him for being Hindu and also forcing Kaneria to convert to Islam.
Read more

In an exclusive interview with Zee News, Kaneria claimed that during his cricketing days in the Pakistan team, Afridi used to treat him badly and even pressurised him to change his religion to Islam.

Kaneria also alleged that the PCB board, including their former chairman Mohammed Ijaz Butt, didn't pay heed to his pleas or complaints and strategised to keep the spinner out of the team.

Here are some excerpts from the interview:

On how Afridi mistreated him
“Shoaib Akhtar was the first person to talk about my problem in public. Shahid Afridi was the only player who always tried to degrade me. We used to play together for the same department, he used to keep me on the bench and didn’t let me play the one-day tournament."

"Senior players like Inzamam-ul-Haq, Waqar Younis, Akhtar, Moeen Khan, Rashid Latif always supported me."

"Afridi used to bench me whenever he was the captain. He used to ruin my whole domestic season even when I was performing well."

" I don't know what issue Afridi had with me but he always downgraded me. All these incidents were mentally disturbing for me."

On confronting Afridi

"I confronted Afridi numerous times. I tried to make him understand that he is mistreating me. However, I was luck that my other teammates were very supportive. I really enjoyed playing with them from the Day 1 of my career."

On his life-ban

"Afridi never supported me when I was banned for life. Instead, he was happy with it. Also, I didn't get any support from PCB when I got banned and Mohammed Ijaz Butt, who was the PCB chairman then, didn't even give me a fair chance to present my case and ignored me."

If Afridi forced him to convert to Islam

"Yes, Afridi used to often tell me to convert to Islam. But, I never used to take him seriously. I believe in my religion and it does not depend on cricket."

https://zeenews.india.com/cricket/e...ed-him-to-convert-to-islam-watch-2460260.html

Sounds like Afridi and Kaneria didn't get along, which is understandable however lots of people don't get along professionally and otherwise, it is not because of religion. He is playing the religion card here again. Afridi was member of Tablighi jamaat, Tablighis invite others to convert so no surprise there.

 

[TheSultan]

Kaneria is a drama queen and Afridi is an idiot. What to believe is the question

The statement and headline itself cannot be right. How can Afridi “force” Kaneria to convert. How can anyone “force” anyone to convert. Kaneria did not convert

Even if you follow kaneria’s statement what he was actually saying was Afridi “asked” him to convert.

That’s the maximum it could have been anyway. And tbh I can believe that Afridi probably did ask him casually.

I can imagine these conversations probably do happen casually or even as a joke. Bit of a storm in a tea cup if he was asked, said no and that was that.

If Afridi persistently asked him when it was clear kaneria wasn’t interested, hassled him or threatened his life or something that’s wrong. But I seriously doubt that happened - people have better things to do.

 

[Stewie]

Kaneria is a liar, but I believe him this time.

However, a few days ago, I saw a thread that talked about his mistreatment at the hands of Inzi and now he is singing a different tune and the alleged abuser is now Afridi. I didnt believe him then but this sounds very very close to how I have found Afridi in real life. He is a very insensitive person and I dont doubt he had a falling out with Kaneria over something, especially considering they were both competing for the same spot in the team.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Your article from The News said while the rest of the team were watching fireworks on New Year’s Eve, he went to a mosque! What’s wrong with that? On New Year’s Eve most teams have some kind of social event even on tour. Yousuf went to a Mosque - shoot him why don’t you!

And in that same article, it did not say he did any “invitations” on that particular tour to Australia. It said that he said in the past he had invited players like Lara and on the last Tour to New Zealand Vettori (where incidentally Pakistan drew 1-1).

So the information provided in that article shows me nothing wrong with his conduct.

If you want to read something in to it due to your conscious/unconscious bias, go right ahead. But it is your interpretation. It is not a fact.

And just to be clear this right now is not an Islamic discussion, it is just a discussion on “provide me facts with accusations”. You haven’t done that.

You can feign ignorance and plausible deniability all day long...won't make a lick of difference regarding what actually happened.

Which is that our captain was less of a captain and more of a missionary/evangelist using his position and influence as a cricketer to do religious work rather than his actual job. If you think there is nothing wrong with that than there is something wrong with you.

Its not as if the players in the current side are not religious. They are. But they are not dim-witted enough to let religion take over every aspect of their life and profession like the 2000s boys did. Had Misbah not taken over and restored some order this side likely would still have had the influence of the Tableeghi Jamaat all over it.

 

[TheSultan]

You can feign ignorance and plausible deniability all day long...won't make a lick of difference regarding what actually happened.

Which is that our captain was less of a captain and more of a missionary/evangelist using his position and influence as a cricketer to do religious work rather than his actual job. If you think there is nothing wrong with that than there is something wrong with you.

Its not as if the players in the current side are not religious. They are. But they are not dim-witted enough to let religion take over every aspect of their life and profession like the 2000s boys did. Had Misbah not taken over and restored some order this side likely would still have had the influence of the Tableeghi Jamaat all over it.

It’s not ignorance or plausible deniability. I am basing things on facts. Yes on your other hand are basing it on conjecture and hearsay.

You have not given me any facts, you are giving me hearsay, “he said, she said” nonsense. You should take up journalism for one of the pak news outlets - you’d do well there.

One correction. Misbah didn’t restore any order regarding tablighi influence.

The tableeghi influence was gone in 2007.

And just incidentally I’d be careful about giving Misbah all the so called credit - the so called tableeghi influence ended in 2007 - it was there 2003-2007. The results weren’t too bad and ask anyone on here from that time, I was Inzi’s biggest critic. I hated his captaincy but compared to post 2007 the results were much better and guess what - they had our allegedly discriminated against Hindu as a permanent fixture in the team. In fact Inzi used to talk up kaneria as his “trump card” every series. His motivation might have been to bring shoaib down a peg or two, but the underlying message was that he was probably one of the most important players in the team!

believe me - I hated Inzi’s era for the defensive mindset that was creeping in to our cricket. I had no idea that a few years later we’d have the most defensive captain ever in Misbah who put defensiveness on steroids!

There is a correlation for self hating Pakistanis. Religion bad, English speaking Misbah good!

 

[MenInG]

Ok think both of you have exhausted your arguments and this is now going in circles.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It’s not ignorance or plausible deniability. I am basing things on facts. Yes on your other hand are basing it on conjecture and hearsay.

You have not given me any facts, you are giving me hearsay, “he said, she said” nonsense. You should take up journalism for one of the pak news outlets - you’d do well there.

One correction. Misbah didn’t restore any order regarding tablighi influence.

The tableeghi influence was gone in 2007.

And just incidentally I’d be careful about giving Misbah all the so called credit - the so called tableeghi influence ended in 2007 - it was there 2003-2007. The results weren’t too bad and ask anyone on here from that time, I was Inzi’s biggest critic. I hated his captaincy but compared to post 2007 the results were much better and guess what - they had our allegedly discriminated against Hindu as a permanent fixture in the team. In fact Inzi used to talk up kaneria as his “trump card” every series. His motivation might have been to bring shoaib down a peg or two, but the underlying message was that he was probably one of the most important players in the team!

believe me - I hated Inzi’s era for the defensive mindset that was creeping in to our cricket. I had no idea that a few years later we’d have the most defensive captain ever in Misbah who put defensiveness on steroids!

There is a correlation for self hating Pakistanis. Religion bad, English speaking Misbah good!

This simplistic and childish interpretation sums up your level of intellectual ineptitude.


Also, Tableeghi influence may have been strongest during Inzamam's reign but it started in the 90s and continued all the way till Misbah took over. So most of what you said is just factually incorrect. And I am not basing my opinion on my memory of these time-periods like you, I actually read about it in The Unquiet Ones.

 

[TheSultan]

This simplistic and childish interpretation sums up your level of intellectual ineptitude.


Also, Tableeghi influence may have been strongest during Inzamam's reign but it started in the 90s and continued all the way till Misbah took over. So most of what you said is just factually incorrect. And I am not basing my opinion on my memory of these time-periods like you, I actually read about it in The Unquiet Ones.

From the 90s ok, brilliant. Then during this tabligi /religious influence, we had one Christian and one Hindu who made it through the whole system out of a population of 220 million in to the last XI of a cricket team for years!

Since then we have had none!

You can slice arguments many ways based on your view of the world.

And that’s my entire point in this thing - stop making accusations, allegations, statements based on rumours, innuendos and some cobbled together rumour mill articles with opinions based on the journalist’s view of the world.

If you have facts, bring them or then stop maligning Pakistani players.