Shakib Al Hasan becomes fastest to 200-wicket, 3,000-run double

[RainMan_]

Bangladesh Test skipper Shakib Al Hasan became the first player from the country to take 200 Test wickets when he gave the Tigers the first breakthrough in West Indies’ chase of a 204-run target at the Zahur Ahmed Chowdhury Stadium in Chattogram.

He is also the fastest to complete the double of 3000 runs and 200 wickets, having completed the feat in his 54th appearance, just one less than England legend Ian Botham. Opening the bowling, Shakib had West Indian opener Kieran Powell stumped in the third over of the innings to bag his 200th wicket in his 54th match and 91st innings of bowling. The left-arm spinner started the ongoing first Test on 196 wickets and moved to 199 after taking three wickets in the first innings, including two in the first over.

Fastest to 3,000 runs and 200 wickets in Tests

Shakib Al Hasan – 54

Ian Botham – 55

Kapil Dev – 73

Imran Khan – 75

Hadlee – 83

 

[RainMan_]

https://www.thedailystar.net/sports/bangladesh-cricket/news/shakib-becomes-fastest-200-wicket-3000-run-double-1664536?amp

 

[RainMan_]

Yet another feather in the cap of one of the greatest test allrounders of all time. Wow. He's is simply unbelievable.

 

[angrypathan]

Very impressive. I'm assuming unlike Shakib that Kapil, Imran and Hadlee took so long because of them not having 3000 runs rather than 200 wickets

 

[MMHS]

Indeed, great credit. He has 18 5fors, 2 10fors as well in that and 6 hundreds, including a double. I think, only Botham had more hundreds in his first 3000 runs and not sure about 18 5fors by anyone.

Having said that, other 4 were Champion fast bowlers, who would take the new ball and extreme work load, which can't be compared with a spinners's work load. Each of them reached 200 wickets earlier than him (Not sure about Kapil), but they batted 1 or 2 slots below their caliber, therefore took longer time to reach 3000 runs. Imran, Kapil & Botham were good enough to bat at 5, Imran probably at even 4 and Hadlee at 6, but they batted at 7 & 8 mostly; and still changed the game with bat & ball often.

Shakib is a fantastic all-rounder, but simply can't be compared with a fast bowling all-rounder. However, Stokes doesn't even remotely come close to those 4 as fast bowling all-rounder and isn't comparable with Shakib either.

 

[RainMan_]

Very impressive. I'm assuming unlike Shakib that Kapil, Imran and Hadlee took so long because of them not having 3000 runs rather than 200 wickets

Exactly. As a a batsman shakib Al hasan is on a different level. His consistency with the bat is simply mind boggling especially if u consider the fact that he's also one of the best spinners in the world right now.

What's even more impressive is his sheer dominance with the ball in unfriendly spin bowling conditions of SA, ENG, NZ. Even most of the front line spinners from Asia like Kumble, harbhajan, Ashwin don't have as good bowling record as Shakib has in these countries.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Congrats on the achievement. Good player (no great) in his own right but definitely not in the top 10 all rounders of all time. Playing for a weak team like BD also helped him interms of longevity. If he was playing for other stronger teams like India, obviously he wont be playing so many test matches.

 

[Oligochaetes]

Ashwin is better, he is the fastest to 300 wickets and 2000 runs double..

Kallis is the only man to score over 10,000 runs and to take over 200 wickets in Test cricket

We can change various criteria to prove each all rounder is the best evah!

 

[Saj]

Top cricketer in all formats and a great servant for Bangladesh cricket for many years.

 

[MMHS]

Congrats on the achievement. Good player (no great) in his own right but definitely not in the top 10 all rounders of all time. Playing for a weak team like BD also helped him interms of longevity. If he was playing for other stronger teams like India, obviously he wont be playing so many test matches.

It's great to notice than you have "shifted" quite a bit from your previous assessment of Shakib -

"Shakib Al Hasan wont be playing for India A team in first class cricket if he was an Indian."

"Shakib Al Hassan may be a great player for a team like BD. But I can bet my house he wont play ahead of Ash/Jad/Kul in test cricket for India. Neither he will play ahead of Kul/Cha in LOIs, nor he can replace Pandya as an all rounder. In our A team, he will fight for a spot against Axar, Krunal, Washington, K.Gautham etc. "

It's good to see that you are learning, kudos. I'll keep helping you in this regard.

 

[RainMan_]

Ashwin is better, he is the fastest to 300 wickets and 2000 runs double..

Kallis is the only man to score over 10,000 runs and to take over 200 wickets in Test cricket

We can change various criteria to prove each all rounder is the best evah!

Kallis is one of the greatest allrounders to ever grace the cricket field man. No question about it. When we make a list of GOAT allrounders players like Sobbers, Miller, kallis, Shakib, Imran, Botham easily comes on the list.

If we only consider Asia, then Shakib is easily the second best test allrounder to ever come out of Asia. Its quite sad that we Asians haven't managed to produce that many great allrounders.

It's Imran, then Shakib and then there is nobody else.

After these two player there's a big, big gap and then u'll find allrounders like Sanath Jaysuria, Abdul Razzak, Kapil Dev, Azhar Mahmud, Ashwin, etc. Its really sad that suncindmt haven't managed to produce any other world class allrounder barring these two.

 

[Executioner]

Shakib is already one of the greats of the game. No doubt. The fact that he had little support from others yet had such a wonderful career shows how good of a player he is.

Also, he might be the fastest to 4k runs and 200 wickets.

 

[latecut]

Very impressive. I'm assuming unlike Shakib that Kapil, Imran and Hadlee took so long because of them not having 3000 runs rather than 200 wickets

Yes, they were not required to be the main run scorers in their teams. That job used to be done by specialist batsmen in their teams. Shakib plays as a main batsman in the side at number 4 or 5, whereas the others batted at number 7 or below.

 

[Sidilicious]

Indeed, great credit. He has 18 5fors, 2 10fors as well in that and 6 hundreds, including a double. I think, only Botham had more hundreds in his first 3000 runs and not sure about 18 5fors by anyone.

Having said that, other 4 were Champion fast bowlers, who would take the new ball and extreme work load, which can't be compared with a spinners's work load. Each of them reached 200 wickets earlier than him (Not sure about Kapil), but they batted 1 or 2 slots below their caliber, therefore took longer time to reach 3000 runs. Imran, Kapil & Botham were good enough to bat at 5, Imran probably at even 4 and Hadlee at 6, but they batted at 7 & 8 mostly; and still changed the game with bat & ball often.

Shakib is a fantastic all-rounder, but simply can't be compared with a fast bowling all-rounder. However, Stokes doesn't even remotely come close to those 4 as fast bowling all-rounder and isn't comparable with Shakib either.

What about Shakib vs other spin ARs?

I am guessing he would be no.3 after Sobers and Benaud.

 

[latecut]

Kapildev completed the double double of 2000 runs and 200 wickets in his 50th test. So he was faster than Shakib in claiming his 200th test wicket.

 

[MMHS]

What about Shakib vs other spin ARs?

I am guessing he would be no.3 after Sobers and Benaud.

May be, a tight fight with AV Mankad as well. Vinnu Mankad's stats are actually similar to Kapil, but he played only 40 odd Test, therefore hardly anyone notices him, but he was a champion all-rounder.

I think, Shakib should be 2nd or parallel 2nd with Bnaud as of now, because RB was a fantastic Leggi, but he often disregarded his batting, ended up as a Champion leggi who could bat. He is not a proper all-rounder, rather a top class bowler who could bat, more like Wasim, Warne, Kumble & Saqlin. I think, Dan Vettori is extremely under rated as all-rounder, while if Ashwin can keep his stats (it's declining sharply), he'll definitely end among a greatest spin all-rounders.

We have two kids with brilliant future - Miraz & Naeem. Actually Naeem can really end up as one of the best bowling all-rounders in contemporary cricket, but don't think Shakib's position can ever be challenged in BD cricket.

 

[Executioner]

What about Shakib vs other spin ARs?

I am guessing he would be no.3 after Sobers and Benaud.

While Sobers is one of the GOAT. I would Shakib is comfortably better player than Richie

Shakib averages 40 with bat compared to Richie's 24.5

And 31 with ball with Richie's 27.

Now if you consider that in modern era is better for batting Shakib would still be the better batsman and similar bowler.

Kallis Imran and Sobers are 3 players who are overall a better player. But among them only Imran is a truely genuine all-rounder.

 

[Executioner]

Miraz I feel has potential to overthrow Shakib as best BD all-rounder. But long way to go for miraz

 

[MMHS]

While Sobers is one of the GOAT. I would Shakib is comfortably better player than Richie

Shakib averages 40 with bat compared to Richie's 24.5

And 31 with ball with Richie's 27.

Now if you consider that in modern era is better for batting Shakib would still be the better batsman and similar bowler.

Kallis Imran and Sobers are 3 players who are overall a better player. But among them only Imran is a truely genuine all-rounder.

Better all-rounder may be, no way better cricketer. Benaud will be my Captain of AT AUS XI - that should tell enough. He never bothered for batting and often batted below Davidson or Johston, but he could bat much better than his 24 average. In fact, RB has the most valuable 2K Test runs, if we consider qualitative judgement. As a bowler - NO comparison, not even remotely close, and as a Captain, game hasn't seen a better one in 200 years.

 

[MMHS]

Miraz I feel has potential to overthrow Shakib as best BD all-rounder. But long way to go for miraz

He'll get dropped from Test team if he keeps on his bits & pieces way of 23 runs and 2/56 bowling.

Naeem is far better potential offie and you don't play 2 off-spinners in Test team. Miraz's best chance is to change focus and try to become an opening batsman, who can support with ball. He has temperament to be an opener, decent technique as well, and we have like 6 leftis in top 4 , need one right hander, otherwise even Roston Chase is making a bowling career!!!

Miraz can be in Shastri or Mazid mold - opening batsman, and 5th/6th bowler- his bowling hasn't developed enough to be No. 7, who bowls for 58 overs.

 

[Executioner]

He'll get dropped from Test team if he keeps on his bits & pieces way of 23 runs and 2/56 bowling.

Naeem is far better potential offie and you don't play 2 off-spinners in Test team. Miraz's best chance is to change focus and try to become an opening batsman, who can support with ball. He has temperament to be an opener, decent technique as well, and we have like 6 leftis in top 4 , need one right hander, otherwise even Roston Chase is making a bowling career!!!

Miraz can be in Shastri or Mazid mold - opening batsman, and 5th/6th bowler- his bowling hasn't developed enough to be No. 7, who bowls for 58 overs.

Yeah I would rather have a specialist spinner in Nayeem rather than Miraz's bits and pieces performance. Miraz needs to show his worth to be able to bat at the top. I would obviously pick Miraz over Mithun and Riad too.

 

[Ab Fan]

I rate Shakib highly. But we should understand he is not at the same level as the 80s quartet and Jacques Kallis.

I would probably put him a level below ATGs, a country great but not ATG.

 

[Executioner]

I rate Shakib highly. But we should understand he is not at the same level as the 80s quartet and Jacques Kallis.

I would probably put him a level below ATGs, a country great but not ATG.

Can definitely become an ATG if he plays for another 5 years

 

[Mainul]

Shakib Al Hasan : Fewest test to reach double of 3000 test runs and 200 test wickets

Congrats Shakib. Today Shakib surpassed Ian Botham to make new record in CTG test when he got the first WI wicket in their second innings. He took 54 tests to reach that milestone. Previously it was of Ian Botham who took 55 tests to achieve it. Here are others in serial :

Chris Cairns: 58 tests
Andrew Flintoff: 69 tests
Kapil Dev: 73 tests

He will surely going to be the fastest to reach double of 4000 test runs and 200 test wickets very soon as his runs tally is now 3727.

It's really disappointing that BD plays so little amount of tests. Otherwise he would broken many more records.

 

[Ab Fan]

Can definitely become an ATG if he plays for another 5 years

I don't think so. He has good stats but ATG is a term only for few players who belong to that tier of greats.

Shakib performance against the big boys doesn't serve me much of memories, his performance vs India, South Africa, Australia and England. His 5-fers he had got have been mostly useless with opposition teams easily piling up 400+ scores, explains the scenario.

You look at his career batting average and his average against the big boys, that flatters his batting stats. There is no memory of him hitting memorable hundreds in big countries like Australia/SA/Ind/England or winning his team some great matches even at home against big teams. This is what seperates ATGs from very good players. He is a BD great but for ATGs, the benchmark is higher.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

He is a true all rounder. I am saying this because the term 'all rounder' is being used very loosely these days for some bits and players like Hardik Pandya.

 

[BreadPakoda]

I don't think so. He has good stats but ATG is a term only for few players who belong to that tier of greats.

Shakib performance against the big boys doesn't serve me much of memories, his performance vs India, South Africa, Australia and England. His 5-fers he had got have been mostly useless with opposition teams easily piling up 400+ scores, explains the scenario.

You look at his career batting average and his average against the big boys, that flatters his batting stats. There is no memory of him hitting memorable hundreds in big countries like Australia/SA/Ind/England or winning his team some great matches even at home against big teams. This is what seperates ATGs from very good players. He is a BD great but for ATGs, the benchmark is higher.

Agree. He's Bangladesh's Ryan ten Doeschate.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Can definitely become an ATG if he plays for another 5 years

To be an ATG, you need to be part of ATG squad. I don't think Shakib would be part of any ATG squad. He is good but doesn't have that impact. Botham in his peak for example, was a monster with both bat and ball. Shakib has never been that dominant anytime in his career, in any aspect.

 

[cricketindiafan]

A great achievement by BD's greatest ever cricketer. Will likely end with a batting average of 35+ and a bowling average of 33-34 with around 5500 runs and 300 wickets. He's a bit like Andy Flower, a Zim great but not ATG.

One small question - my understanding of a double for all rounders was 1000 runs and 100 wickets, 2000 runs and 200 wickeymts, 3000 runs and 300 wickets and so on. Why 3000 runs and 200 wickets and not 2000 runs and 300/400 wickets?

 

[cricketindiafan]

Kallis is one of the greatest allrounders to ever grace the cricket field man. No question about it. When we make a list of GOAT allrounders players like Sobbers, Miller, kallis, Shakib, Imran, Botham easily comes on the list.

If we only consider Asia, then Shakib is easily the second best test allrounder to ever come out of Asia. Its quite sad that we Asians haven't managed to produce that many great allrounders.

It's Imran, then Shakib and then there is nobody else.

After these two player there's a big, big gap and then u'll find allrounders like Sanath Jaysuria, Abdul Razzak, Kapil Dev, Azhar Mahmud, Ashwin, etc. Its really sad that suncindmt haven't managed to produce any other world class allrounder barring these two.

If Reetinder Sodhi, Stuart Binny or Anwar Ali played for BD, they'd have been equally good all rounders as well and would have perhaps competing for that number 2 spot. Forget them, your bowling coach would have done this as well.

See how easy is it to play this.

 

[Buffet]

Zim and WI have been very poor during his career. Shakib bowling avg against SA/Aus/Ind/Pak/NZ/SL/Eng is 35+

Here is breakdown for home and away bolwing if it makes any difference.

Bowling at home: 27 tests - Avg 34.65
Bowling away from home: 12 tests - Avg 36.89

He is a better batsman in my opinion despite his inability to play sensibly many times. He started playing young and in BD set up, it's not so easy to learn to play according to situation, but he has batted much better than he bowled. Just my opinion.

You can't have too much impact with bowling if you average 35 home and away both.

Comfortably the best player produced by BD so far, but I was very disappointed with him skipping SA series. He wouldn't have made any difference in results, but BD hardly gets to play away series against top teams so it was disappointing to see him not play citing he needed rest. I respect him a lot less after that.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Thanks for putting things into perspective [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] for delusional posters here who thought Shakib is an ATG. As you rightly said, someone with bowling avg of 35 home and away can never be ATG. Shakib is just a great servant for BD cricket but his game is too mediocre to be even close to ATG level.

Also, can you compare Shakib with Ravi Jadeja statistically pls? I know Shakib is better but surely Jadeja cant be far off.

 

[BreadPakoda]

A great achievement by BD's greatest ever cricketer. Will likely end with a batting average of 35+ and a bowling average of 33-34 with around 5500 runs and 300 wickets. He's a bit like Andy Flower, a Zim great but not ATG.

One small question - my understanding of a double for all rounders was 1000 runs and 100 wickets, 2000 runs and 200 wickeymts, 3000 runs and 300 wickets and so on. Why 3000 runs and 200 wickets and not 2000 runs and 300/400 wickets?

In my opinion Tamim is the greatest Bangladeshi cricketer.

 

[Executioner]

I don't think so. He has good stats but ATG is a term only for few players who belong to that tier of greats.

Shakib performance against the big boys doesn't serve me much of memories, his performance vs India, South Africa, Australia and England. His 5-fers he had got have been mostly useless with opposition teams easily piling up 400+ scores, explains the scenario.

You look at his career batting average and his average against the big boys, that flatters his batting stats. There is no memory of him hitting memorable hundreds in big countries like Australia/SA/Ind/England or winning his team some great matches even at home against big teams. This is what seperates ATGs from very good players. He is a BD great but for ATGs, the benchmark is higher.

To be an ATG, you need to be part of ATG squad. I don't think Shakib would be part of any ATG squad. He is good but doesn't have that impact. Botham in his peak for example, was a monster with both bat and ball. Shakib has never been that dominant anytime in his career, in any aspect.

I said can not will

And yes not great stats against big teams but we hardly play much test cricket. Shakib had played only 55 odd tests in 11 years

 

[Hasan123]

Well done to him. He's been a terrific player for Bangladesh.

 

[Buffet]

Also, can you compare Shakib with Ravi Jadeja statistically pls? I know Shakib is better but surely Jadeja cant be far off.

Jadeja career bowling against SA/Aus/Ind/Pak/NZ/SL/Eng - 24

Jadeja home avg : 20
Jadeja away avg : 38

Jadeja batting avg : 30 , Shakib batting avg 39


While average difference in batting doesn't seem that big, but I will put Shakib in different class in batting. He has many tons while Jadeja has none. Jadeja has 1K runs and Shakib has 3K. Shakib is far better than Jadeja in batting.

Jadeja is much better in bowling, but I don't think that difference in bowling average of 15 at home is due to simply skill. I think BD used to put too many flat pitches to avoid defeat and that won't help spinners too much. Having said that, I have seen both of them bowl enough to say that Jadeja is a better bowler.

I don't see Jadeja as a genuine all rounder to be honest. No ton in test and just 1K runs doesn't cut it for me.

 

[BDfanforever]

Zim and WI have been very poor during his career. Shakib bowling avg against SA/Aus/Ind/Pak/NZ/SL/Eng is 35+

Here is breakdown for home and away bolwing if it makes any difference.

Bowling at home: 27 tests - Avg 34.65
Bowling away from home: 12 tests - Avg 36.89

He is a better batsman in my opinion despite his inability to play sensibly many times. He started playing young and in BD set up, it's not so easy to learn to play according to situation, but he has batted much better than he bowled. Just my opinion.

You can't have too much impact with bowling if you average 35 home and away both.

Comfortably the best player produced by BD so far, but I was very disappointed with him skipping SA series. He wouldn't have made any difference in results, but BD hardly gets to play away series against top teams so it was disappointing to see him not play citing he needed rest. I respect him a lot less after that.

Good Analysis. However, we must understand that filtering can make anyone's stats pretty ordinary aside from maybe Virat Kholi.

I took a random look at the top 10 Test Batsman: CA Pujara(currently 2nd best Indian batsman), D. Elgar, Joe Root.

Test Batting Ave: Away
1. Joe Root = 44.5
2. Shakib Hasan = 38.5
2. Cheteshwar Pujara = 35.9
3. Dean Elgar = 30.5

Shakib as an all rounder has higher batting average in an away condition than many of the top 10 pure batsman in the world, which is absolutely incredible!

His impact was not felt because BAN has been very poor in Test cricket arena for quite some times. However, they have since improved by going from 0 rating points few years ago to some 70 odd ratings now.

Nonetheless, I agree that he is far from ATG all rounder unless he wins the World Cup.

 

[Buffet]

Good Analysis. However, we must understand that filtering can make anyone's stats pretty ordinary aside from maybe Virat Kholi.

I took a random look at the top 10 Test Batsman: CA Pujara(currently 2nd best Indian batsman), D. Elgar, Joe Root.

Test Batting Ave: Away
1. Joe Root = 44.5
2. Shakib Hasan = 38.5
2. Cheteshwar Pujara = 35.9
3. Dean Elgar = 30.5

Shakib as an all rounder has higher batting average in an away condition than many of the top 10 pure batsman in the world, which is absolutely incredible!

His impact was not felt because BAN has been very poor in Test cricket arena for quite some times. However, they have since improved by going from 0 rating points few years ago to some 70 odd ratings now.

Nonetheless, I agree that he is far from ATG all rounder unless he wins the World Cup.

Shakib is averaging 35 at home and away both while bowling. That's not filtering. Filtering would be taking only home or taking only away.

I don't think winning WC is required for going down as an ATG. Shakib simply needs to produce goods with ball for that in test format.

Yes, he has done well away in batting, but Shakib skipped SA series despite playing only 10-12 away tests against big countries in his entire career. It's just no possible to be seen as great test player with that kind of attitude.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I said can not will

And yes not great stats against big teams but we hardly play much test cricket. Shakib had played only 55 odd tests in 11 years

If he can become an ATG, he has turn things around fast, otherwise he will struggle even to get in Asian ATG squad. If I was to take a spin bowling allrounder, I would rather choose Ashwin/Jadeja instead of Shakib. His batting won't be missed in an ATG team, especially with his reckless attitude to play rash shots under pressure.

 

[the_outsider]

Jadeja career bowling against SA/Aus/Ind/Pak/NZ/SL/Eng - 24

Jadeja home avg : 20
Jadeja away avg : 38

Jadeja batting avg : 30 , Shakib batting avg 39


While average difference in batting doesn't seem that big, but I will put Shakib in different class in batting. He has many tons while Jadeja has none. Jadeja has 1K runs and Shakib has 3K. Shakib is far better than Jadeja in batting.

Jadeja is much better in bowling, but I don't think that difference in bowling average of 15 at home is due to simply skill. I think BD used to put too many flat pitches to avoid defeat and that won't help spinners too much. Having said that, I have seen both of them bowl enough to say that Jadeja is a better bowler.

I don't see Jadeja as a genuine all rounder to be honest. No ton in test and just 1K runs doesn't cut it for me.

Jadeja has one test century.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Thanks for putting things into perspective [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] for delusional posters here who thought Shakib is an ATG. As you rightly said, someone with bowling avg of 35 home and away can never be ATG. Shakib is just a great servant for BD cricket but his game is too mediocre to be even close to ATG level.

Also, can you compare Shakib with Ravi Jadeja statistically pls? I know Shakib is better but surely Jadeja cant be far off.

My Boi Sakib Al hasan:

His avg Away:

vs ENG: 2 matches, batting avg 13, bowling avg 34 (NICE)
vs SOUTH AFRICA: 2 matches, batting avg 11.5, bowling avg avg 20 (Good bowling thanks to his one of 6for but couldnt put bat on ball)
vs AUS (He didnt play any matches)


I guess he is good in Bangladeshi terms but just a mediocre international player...

 

[BDfanforever]

My Boi Sakib Al hasan:

His avg Away:

vs ENG: 2 matches, batting avg 13, bowling avg 34 (NICE)
vs SOUTH AFRICA: 2 matches, batting avg 11.5, bowling avg avg 20 (Good bowling thanks to his one of 6for but couldnt put bat on ball)
vs AUS (He didnt play any matches)


I guess he is good in Bangladeshi terms but just a mediocre international player...

If you got nothing better to say, then please just don't post at all. I posted his away bat average, and it is better than your 2nd batsman CA Pujara.

Test Batting Ave: Away
1. Joe Root = 44.5
2. Shakib Hasan = 38.5
2. Cheteshwar Pujara = 35.9
3. Dean Elgar = 30.5

 

[BDfanforever]

If he can become an ATG, he has turn things around fast, otherwise he will struggle even to get in Asian ATG squad. If I was to take a spin bowling allrounder, I would rather choose Ashwin/Jadeja instead of Shakib. His batting won't be missed in an ATG team, especially with his reckless attitude to play rash shots under pressure.

That is fine, however remember Ashwin is pretty much useless in away and especially SENA conditions. His bowling average in SENA is whopping 46.

What we can basically see is that no matter whose name you put, Shakib can at least compete with even the top tier batsman and top tier bowlers around the world!

Only other all rounder who would be better than Shakib is Shane Watson during is peak.

 

[Buffet]

Jadeja has one test century.

I was eliminating all stats vs Zim, BD, WI and Afg etc when looking for Jadeja because I did the same for Shakib. He must have scored a ton vs them because it didn't show up. Anyway, I am not very impressed with attitude of Shakib when batting as well. He plays rashly despite having a game to bat normally, but Shakib is much better than Jadeja in batting.

 

[Romali_rotti]

If you got nothing better to say, then please just don't post at all. I posted his away bat average, and it is better than your 2nd batsman CA Pujara.

Test Batting Ave: Away
1. Joe Root = 44.5
2. Shakib Hasan = 38.5
2. Cheteshwar Pujara = 35.9
3. Dean Elgar = 30.5

Compare apples with Apples, all you need to do is compare the avg away in SENA.... Pujara has played so many matches while your guy has played a handful, had he played the matches Pujara player his avg would have been even worst.. Like I said he is good for a Bangladeshi but a mediocre international player.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Compare apples with Apples, all you need to do is compare the avg away in SENA.... Pujara has played so many matches while your guy has played a handful, had he played the matches Pujara player his avg would have been even worst.. Like I said he is good for a Bangladeshi but a mediocre international player.

That was plain stupid, you are free to be biased but don't post stuff that questions your credibility.

 

[Romali_rotti]

That was plain stupid, you are free to be biased but don't post stuff that questions your credibility.

Its my opinion, he is a mediocre international player, you don't like my response ? well don't respond to it. I really don't care what you or anyone else think...

 

[Buffet]

That is fine, however remember Ashwin is pretty much useless in away and especially SENA conditions. His bowling average in SENA is whopping 46.

What we can basically see is that no matter whose name you put, Shakib can at least compete with even the top tier batsman and top tier bowlers around the world!

Only other all rounder who would be better than Shakib is Shane Watson during is peak.

Top tier batsmen in the last 10 years against Aus/SA/Eng/SL/Ind/Pak/NZ,

1) Amla 28 tons - avg 49
2) Root 13 tons - avg 49
3) Ab 13 tons - avg 54
4) Kohli 21 tons - avg 54
5) Smith 21 tons - avg 59
...
....


There is no way Shakib comes even close to top tier batsmen with 3-4 tons.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Its my opinion, he is a mediocre international player, you don't like my response ? well don't respond to it. I really don't care what you or anyone else think...

So you want everybody to ignore you, but you're on an online forum? Ok

 

[RainMan_]

To be an ATG, you need to be part of ATG squad. I don't think Shakib would be part of any ATG squad. He is good but doesn't have that impact. Botham in his peak for example, was a monster with both bat and ball. Shakib has never been that dominant anytime in his career, in any aspect.

Nonsense. To be an atg u need to perform at an exceptional level for a consistent period of time and need to be significantly better than ur contemporaries. I wont even bother mentioningg all those great footballers who played for poor teams since this hilarious statement does not not even deserve that sort of detailed response.

Shakib has always been a dominant player which is why he has always remained in the top 3 ranking of the allrounder. He is also one of the very few allrounders who has a positive difference between his Batting and bowling average. Don't really know whether u will be able to understand what that signifies. He is also the only allrounder in the history of cricket to have fifer against all the cricket playing nations. He is one of the greatest test allrounders of all time and the second greatest from asia.

 

[Buffet]

Test Batting Ave: Away
1. Joe Root = 44.5
2. Shakib Hasan = 38.5
2. Cheteshwar Pujara = 35.9
3. Dean Elgar = 30.5

I think you are misreading stats here. This doesn't make him a top tier batsmen. He is a good batsman, but not really comparable to likes of Roots just because Root and Shakib have similar away stats.

Shakib has just 10-12 away tests, but he has played 25-30 home tests.

No one with a career average of high 30s will be a top tier batsman in the last 10 years.

 

[Romali_rotti]

So you want everybody to ignore you, but you're on an online forum? Ok

Speak for yourself and a selected few lol not everyone is you buddy.. Been here long enough, I have quite a fan following here...

 

[Romali_rotti]

I think you are misreading stats here. This doesn't make him a top tier batsmen. He is a good batsman, but not really comparable to likes of Roots just because Root and Shakib have similar away stats.

Shakib has just 10-12 away tests, but he has played 25-30 home tests.

No one with a career average of high 30s will be a top tier batsman in the last 10 years.

My point exactly, the guy has played a handful of games and he has been terrible in those games in ENG & SA, he has not played in AUs.... Bangla fans trying to make their guy relevant when unfortunately he is not, but still a good player for Bangladesh...

 

[gazza619]

Shakib is a quality player and deserves the praise. There are not many players who bat at 3/4 and open the bowling.

 

[Buffet]

Shakib is not a mediocre international player. He is a very good all rounder. After Kallis, I don't think other names have done well long enough to go ahead of Shakib.

It's just that he is neither top tier in batting nor in bowling, but no way he is mediocre.

 

[RainMan_]

Top tier batsmen in the last 10 years against Aus/SA/Eng/SL/Ind/Pak/NZ,

1) Amla 28 tons - avg 49
2) Root 13 tons - avg 49
3) Ab 13 tons - avg 54
4) Kohli 21 tons - avg 54
5) Smith 21 tons - avg 59
...
....


There is no way Shakib comes even close to top tier batsmen with 3-4 tons.

I suppose we already talked about this in some other thread. Shakib is a genuine allrounder. He does not need to be the top ten list of batters. That's not his job. If he was a batting allrounder he would have been easily in the top 10 list of batters , similarly if he was a bowling allrounder he would have been in the top ten list of bowlers.

But he is a genuine allrounder and his job is to contribute equally with both bat and bowl. For example, Kapil was doing really well with the ball at one point of time in his career and was easily in the top 5 list of bowlers. But does that change the fact that as an allrounder he is nowhere near of an allrounder of Shakibs's caliber?

Of course not. Why? Because shakib is a genuine allrounder who's equally good in every aspects of the game while Kapil was a good bowler who could slog a bit. That's why Kapil appears in the top 5/10 list of bowlers but if we include his tailenderish batting we will see that he des not even deserved to be mentioned beside Shakib.

Similar case with hadlee. He was a great bowler. Certainly one of the greatest of all time. But when we will consider his batting, as an allrounder he will become inferior to Shakib.

 

[gazza619]

Shakib is not a mediocre international player. He is a very good all rounder. After Kallis, I don't think other names have done well long enough to go ahead of Shakib.

It's just that he is neither top tier in batting nor in bowling, but no way he is mediocre.

It may be that in some people’s head Bangladesh is still a minnow hence they cannot come out of this mental block?
Bangladesh has improved and other teams have dropped quality so now there is not much difference between them.

 

[RainMan_]

If Reetinder Sodhi, Stuart Binny or Anwar Ali played for BD, they'd have been equally good all rounders as well and would have perhaps competing for that number 2 spot. Forget them, your bowling coach would have done this as well.

See how easy is it to play this.

U can obviously wish to keep living in ur lala land where Kapil is an ATG allrounder.


Just keep in mind that Shakib is better than any allrounder that India has poduced in its 100 years of cricket history. I have already mentioned in multiple threads why he is by far the second greatest allrounder from Asia and easily one of the greatest of all time with proper evidence. Wont bother repeating those here.

 

[rhony]

Hands down the greatest BD player. Has a mediocre record against big teams which is normally the case for every BD player. Mehdi Hasan can fill his role when he retires.

 

[Buffet]

I suppose we already talked about this in some other thread. Shakib is a genuine allrounder. He does not need to be the top ten list of batters. That's not his job. If he was a batting allrounder he would have been easily in the top 10 list of batters , similarly if he was a bowling allrounder he would have been in the top ten list of bowlers.

But he is a genuine allrounder and his job is to contribute equally with both bat and bowl. For example, Kapil was doing really well with the ball at one point of time in his career and was easily in the top 5 list of bowlers. But does that change the fact that as an allrounder he is nowhere near of an allrounder of Shakibs's caliber?

Of course not. Why? Because shakib is a genuine allrounder who's equally good in every aspects of the game while Kapil was a good bowler who could slog a bit. That's why Kapil appears in the top 5/10 list of bowlers but if we include his tailenderish batting we will see that he des not even deserved to be mentioned beside Shakib.

Similar case with hadlee. He was a great bowler. Certainly one of the greatest of all time. But when we will consider his batting, as an allrounder he will become inferior to Shakib.

Another poster was making a claim that he can compete with top tier bowlers or batsmen. I was simply disagreeing with him. You are also agreeing that his bowling or batting skills are not good enough to land him among the top 10 during his career. We are on same page here.


Now,

You can contribute equally in both skills at below average and it will make you a genuine all rounder.

You can contribute equally around average and it will make you a genuine all rounder.

You can contribute above average in both and that will make you a genuine all rounder.


All three can be called genuine all rounders, but all three of them won't be the same and necessarily better than another player with ATG skills in one and below average skill in another.

 

[RainMan_]

Hands down the greatest BD player. Has a mediocre record against big teams which is normally the case for every BD player. Mehdi Hasan can fill his role when he retires.

Shakib in tests against ''SENA" in "SENA"



Kapil in tests against "SENA" in "SENA"



Enjoy.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Shakib is not a mediocre international player. He is a very good all rounder. After Kallis, I don't think other names have done well long enough to go ahead of Shakib.

It's just that he is neither top tier in batting nor in bowling, but no way he is mediocre.

After Kallis, there were no all rounders really who stood out, in that instance Sakib is the only player to speak off. That itself tells a sorry picture, if you look at his stats in ENG & SA he couldnt hold a bat to save his life and wasn't for that 1 off 6for he took in SA his bowling avg there would be avg as well.

He did good in NZ, but didn't play in Aus, had he played in Aus, my gut feeling; he would have been terrible... He is just a bits and pieces player, for a Bangladeshi standard he is very good, he is just an avg player internationally and his only fame is due to the fact that the culture of all rounders died in the early 90's barring the odd shiny diamond called Kallis there has been no one who played the role of a true all rounder, so Sakib sticks out....

Sakib is a good stepping stone for Bangladesh, I feel in the next 100 years they may unearth a world class all rounder..

 

[Buffet]

After Kallis, there were no all rounders really who stood out, in that instance Sakib is the only player to speak off. That itself tells a sorry picture, if you look at his stats in ENG & SA he couldnt hold a bat to save his life and wasn't for that 1 off 6for he took in SA his bowling avg there would be avg as well.

He did good in NZ, but didn't play in Aus, had he played in Aus, my gut feeling; he would have been terrible... He is just a bits and pieces player, for a Bangladeshi standard he is very good, he is just an avg player internationally and his only fame is due to the fact that the culture of all rounders died in the early 90's barring the odd shiny diamond called Kallis there has been no one who played the role of a true all rounder, so Sakib sticks out....

Sakib is a good stepping stone for Bangladesh, I feel in the next 100 years they may unearth a world class all rounder..

I don't think he is in ATG league, but I also don't think that he is as bad as you are saying. I will classify him as better than a bits and pieces player.

Also, we don't have many gun all rounders, because it's very hard to do both skills well. If he is among the top 3 for long period in all rounders, then I will call it world class. All world class all rounders don't have to make a case for an ATG.

 

[Romali_rotti]

I don't think he is in ATG league, but I also don't think that he is as bad as you are saying. I will classify him as better than a bits and pieces player.

Also, we don't have many gun all rounders, because it's very hard to do both skills well. If he is among the top 3 for long period in all rounders, then I will call it world class. All world class all rounders don't have to make a case for an ATG.

Like I said earlier; the culture of all rounders died in the early 90s... It has mainly been genuine bats, wickie & bowlers, that is the only reason why Sakib is even mentioned as an all rounder.. We can agree to disagree, I feel he is a bits and pieces player nothing more, he had a bit of luck as he played in an era where all rounders were non existent due to team cultures.... Still a good player for Bangla standards...

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Shakib in tests against ''SENA" in "SENA"

View attachment 85900

Kapil in tests against "SENA" in "SENA"

View attachment 85901

Enjoy.

Shakib NEVER played a test match in Australia. Whom are you trying to fool?

Also, look at the number of matches played by both. You are comparing Kapil's 35 hardcore test matches in SENA compared to just 8 by Shakib. He just played 2 tests in Eng, 2 in SA and 4 in NZ. He decided to skip the latest SA test series fearing a phanity

A true jatta like Dev will never chicken out from any competition

Also whenever BD tours in places like Eng or SA, they tend to rest their key players and save them for bigger teams.

If he had played more in SENA, his test record would hv been as pathetic as in ODIs:

Shakib's ODI avgs in SENA as below:
AUST (7 matches) - Bat avg 24, bowl avg 44
ENG (6 matches) - Bat avg 13 , bowl avg 71 )
NZ (14 matches) - Bat avg 23, bowl avg 28
SA (5 matches) - Bat avg 33, bowl avg 70

But but but....ATG all rounder.

As I said many times before, he is on the same level as Ravi Jadeja as an all rounder. Just bcoz he plays for BD, he is a lone gun slinger without any competition. Had Jaddu played for BD, he would hv surpassed Shakib.

 

[MMHS]

Like I said earlier; the culture of all rounders died in the early 90s... It has mainly been genuine bats, wickie & bowlers, that is the only reason why Sakib is even mentioned as an all rounder.. We can agree to disagree, I feel he is a bits and pieces player nothing more, he had a bit of luck as he played in an era where all rounders were non existent due to team cultures.... Still a good player for Bangla standards...

That's a bit stupid comment. I normally don't respond to trolling against Bangladesh, but you'll be fooling yourself if you think that you'll get away with your cheap digs against a player who has been among top 3 all-rounders in 3 formats for 10+ years now.

Let me educate you few facts, which in your haste you didn't notice before running mouth - Shakib has 18 5fors, in 54 Tests, that's 1 in every 3 Test, and 3.9 wickets/Test - go & check Kapil's record for 134 Tests. His average outside Asia for a spinner is only 2nd to Herath & Murali. He has a 5 For against every team, 9 in total, he has played so far and has a 50 against every team, barring SAF. He is the 3rd all-rounder to hit a hundred & take 10 wickets in a Test, and he is only all-rounder to back it up with another 10 for & 100 runs in a Test. He has 6 Test hundreds in 54 Tests, compared to Imran's 6 in 88 & Kapil's 8 in 134. His bowling average of <32 as a spinner is better than many, many regular spinners batting at 10-11. Being spinner, his away average is actually better than home and his SR of 63 is better than most spinners in modern game. The ultimate KPI for an all-rounder is the gap between batting average & bowling average - he is +8, only after Sobers, Kallis, Imran & Miller.

Only fools will believe that a player averaging 40 with bat & 32 with ball for 54 Tests with 6 hundreds, 18/25fr & 10 for is "mentioned as an all rounder", because the culture of all-rounder has died, and he is only good player for Bangla standard. I hope you'll come back here to justify that your standard as cricket analyst at least suits PP standard.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand, it's quite fashionable for posedu cricket fans taking cheap dig at BD cricket & it's standard, but I am really surprised that here quite knowledgeable posters keep silent when it goes to personal level, even for world class players. I did't put Shakib as ATG, because collectively he didn't achieve much - that's the sacrifice for him for representing a weaker cricket nation, otherwise the amount of hype I see for Stokes in PP, if this guy had played for a stronger team, he was destined for a bonafied ATG by now.

 

[Romali_rotti]

That's a bit stupid comment. I normally don't respond to trolling against Bangladesh, but you'll be fooling yourself if you think that you'll get away with your cheap digs against a player who has been among top 3 all-rounders in 3 formats for 10+ years now.

Let me educate you few facts, which in your haste you didn't notice before running mouth - Shakib has 18 5fors, in 54 Tests, that's 1 in every 3 Test, and 3.9 wickets/Test - go & check Kapil's record for 134 Tests. His average outside Asia for a spinner is only 2nd to Herath & Murali. He has a 5 For against every team, 9 in total, he has played so far and has a 50 against every team, barring SAF. He is the 3rd all-rounder to hit a hundred & take 10 wickets in a Test, and he is only all-rounder to back it up with another 10 for & 100 runs in a Test. He has 6 Test hundreds in 54 Tests, compared to Imran's 6 in 88 & Kapil's 8 in 134. His bowling average of <32 as a spinner is better than many, many regular spinners batting at 10-11. Being spinner, his away average is actually better than home and his SR of 63 is better than most spinners in modern game. The ultimate KPI for an all-rounder is the gap between batting average & bowling average - he is +8, only after Sobers, Kallis, Imran & Miller.

Only fools will believe that a player averaging 40 with bat & 32 with ball for 54 Tests with 6 hundreds, 18/25fr & 10 for is "mentioned as an all rounder", because the culture of all-rounder has died, and he is only good player for Bangla standard. I hope you'll come back here to justify that your standard as cricket analyst at least suits PP standard.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand, it's quite fashionable for posedu cricket fans taking cheap dig at BD cricket & it's standard, but I am really surprised that here quite knowledgeable posters keep silent when it goes to personal level, even for world class players. I did't put Shakib as ATG, because collectively he didn't achieve much - that's the sacrifice for him for representing a weaker cricket nation, otherwise the amount of hype I see for Stokes in PP, if this guy had played for a stronger team, he was destined for a bonafied ATG by now.

Please save yourself the trouble, I mean no dis-respect when I say: Nothing about Sakib shows me he is nothing more than a bits n pieces player. He was terrible with the bat in ENG in SA, never played in Aus. He is good for a Bangladeshi and nothing more in my eyes... You cannot convince me otherwise...


Thanks..

 

[Mainul]

It's great to notice than you have "shifted" quite a bit from your previous assessment of Shakib -

"Shakib Al Hasan wont be playing for India A team in first class cricket if he was an Indian."

"Shakib Al Hassan may be a great player for a team like BD. But I can bet my house he wont play ahead of Ash/Jad/Kul in test cricket for India. Neither he will play ahead of Kul/Cha in LOIs, nor he can replace Pandya as an all rounder. In our A team, he will fight for a spot against Axar, Krunal, Washington, K.Gautham etc. "

It's good to see that you are learning, kudos. I'll keep helping you in this regard.

Nailed it

 

[RainMan_]

Shakib NEVER played a test match in Australia. Whom are you trying to fool?

Also, look at the number of matches played by both. You are comparing Kapil's 35 hardcore test matches in SENA compared to just 8 by Shakib. He just played 2 tests in Eng, 2 in SA and 4 in NZ.

Yup , agreed. Kapil played 35 matches in those countries and got smashed around like a nobody. Another proof of the fact that Kapil was in no disadvantageous position due to him playing on Asian pitches since he was utter rubbish when he bowled on lively pitches of SA, ENG, NZ and AUS.

Kapil’s bowling average of 34 and and batting average of 24 in these countries further illustrates the fact that he was indeed a bits and pieces cricketer. It’s just indian media that has made him great allrounder by constantly blabbering about him to fool the gullible Indian fans. But its quite understandable though. When u have been playing for close to hundreds yers but still haven’t managed to produce a single good allrounder, u need these types of nonsense from media.

He decided to skip the latest SA test series fearing a phanity A true jatta like Dev will never chicken out from any competition

Hehe, he loves playing in Southafrica and toying with their batters with his mesmerizing spin bowling. He did not play in the last series because he was injured. And as the current best allrounder of world cricket and as a vital member of the team he deserved to be rested.

Don’t forget the fact that as a spinner he has better bowling record in SA than almost all the spinners that India has produced in its entire history of cricket. Kumble, Harbhajan, Ashwin all the other overhyped spinners does not even come close to the great Shakib Al Hasan as far as the bowling performance in SA is concerned.

If he had played more in SENA, his test record would hv been as pathetic as in ODIs:

If he had played more in SENA he would have become more experienced. He also would have got a very good idea about the proper length to bowl on these pitches since bowling length and speed for spinners in these countries is quite different. All these would have made him more deadly with the ball. But I suppose as an indian u already know it. I hope the way Ashwin and Kumble got beaten to the pulp in SA have already made u realize that.

Shakib's ODI avgs in SENA as below:
AUST (7 matches) - Bat avg 24, bowl avg 44
ENG (6 matches) - Bat avg 13 , bowl avg 71 )
NZ (14 matches) - Bat avg 23, bowl avg 28
SA (5 matches) - Bat avg 33, bowl avg 70

But but but....ATG all rounder.

As I said many times before, he is on the same level as Ravi Jadeja as an all rounder. Just bcoz he plays for BD, he is a lone gun slinger without any competition. Had Jaddu played for BD, he would hv surpassed Shakib.

Good to see that u have jumped to odis while talking about the test records of Shakib and Kapil. Hehe. But no worries, everyone knows the worth of kapil as an allrounder in odis as well. His record in odis is as embarrassing as his record is in tests

Look at the mind boggling record of one of the greatest alrounders of all time


Here is Kapils one


Mesmerizing batting and bowling stat of Shakib Away from home in odis


Compared to that Kapils batting stat is quite embarrassing


As i said many times if we consider all the formats this subcontinent has produced two great all rounders. One is Imran Khan and the other is Shakib al hasan. Kapil was mostly a slogger who could bowl decently. This further gets illustrated from the fact that Kapil failed to score a single double hundred even after playing almost 150 tests. its Not surprising though, as a tailender he did not have the technique to score big in tests.

Shakib and Imran the only two true world class allrounder from Asia. Writing the name of tailender Kapil beside them is an insult to these two giants of the game.

 

[Darkrai]

He has very good stats. He is a proper all-rounder, unlike many of our "all-rounders". I would say comfortably the best in the world if we are talking about all formats.

 

[cricketindiafan]

U can obviously wish to keep living in ur lala land where Kapil is an ATG allrounder.


Just keep in mind that Shakib is better than any allrounder that India has poduced in its 100 years of cricket history. I have already mentioned in multiple threads why he is by far the second greatest allrounder from Asia and easily one of the greatest of all time with proper evidence. Wont bother repeating those here.

Can complegely understand your excitement. BD fans have got something to celebrate, so enjoy your day. But do remember last time you wrote such chest thumping posts, your team ended up losing a ODI to Afghanistan and more shamefully a test to Zim!

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Yup , agreed. Kapil played 35 matches in those countries and got smashed around like a nobody. Another proof of the fact that Kapil was in no disadvantageous position due to him playing on Asian pitches since he was utter rubbish when he bowled on lively pitches of SA, ENG, NZ and AUS.

Kapil’s bowling average of 34 and and batting average of 24 in these countries further illustrates the fact that he was indeed a bits and pieces cricketer. It’s just indian media that has made him great allrounder by constantly blabbering about him to fool the gullible Indian fans. But its quite understandable though. When u have been playing for close to hundreds yers but still haven’t managed to produce a single good allrounder, u need these types of nonsense from media.

So after getting caught red handed that Shakib never played test match in Aust, trying to change the topic. Also what do you mean by Kapil got smashed like a no-body. I thought test cricket is not about strike rates? But even if we go by your point, Kapil's economy rate is 2.74 compared to Shakib's 3.4

Its not Indian media, most pundits and experts acknowledge Dev as one of the best all rounders game has ever seen. No expert ever rated/included Shakib in their all time playing XI bcoz they his worth. But its quite understandable for a gullible BD fan to hype him around bcoz he is the only good cricketer they hv produced in their history. But in reality he is pure mediocre.

Hehe, he loves playing in Southafrica and toying with their batters with his mesmerizing spin bowling. He did not play in the last series because he was injured. And as the current best allrounder of world cricket and as a vital member of the team he deserved to be rested.

He was not injured but asked sabbatical from board in order to refresh his body.
https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/...cket-to-miss-south-africa-series-1515527.html

So basically he chickened out. He played all the garbage test series against Zimbos at home but decided to take a sabbatical in the only tough away tour BD was playing after long time. Basically he chickened out. Hence I said, a true jatta like Dev will never chicken out :dev

Don’t forget the fact that as a spinner he has better bowling record in SA than almost all the spinners that India has produced in its entire history of cricket. Kumble, Harbhajan, Ashwin all the other overhyped spinners does not even come close to the great Shakib Al Hasan as far as the bowling performance in SA is concerned.

Yes 2 test matches in SA is all that took to define Shakib has great bowling record in SA? Do you even think before writing? In that case, Ravi Jadeja (who is a better all rounder than Shakib anyway IMHO) who played 1 test, has a legendary record in SA where he avgs 21 with the ball?

If he had played more in SENA he would have become more experienced. He also would have got a very good idea about the proper length to bowl on these pitches since bowling length and speed for spinners in these countries is quite different. All these would have made him more deadly with the ball. But I suppose as an indian u already know it. I hope the way Ashwin and Kumble got beaten to the pulp in SA have already made u realize that.

If he didnt chicken out in the last SA series and played the series by having accepted the challenge, he would have got same phainta and his record would hv been same as in ODIs. Atleast the likes of Kumble never chickened out and played 14 tests in SA and avgs 32.

Good to see that u have jumped to odis while talking about the test records of Shakib and Kapil. Hehe. But no worries, everyone knows the worth of kapil as an allrounder in odis as well. His record in odis is as embarrassing as his record is in tests

Look at the mind boggling record of one of the greatest alrounders of all time
View attachment 85902

Here is Kapils one
View attachment 85903

Mesmerizing batting and bowling stat of Shakib Away from home in odis
View attachment 85904

Compared to that Kapils batting stat is quite embarrassing
View attachment 85905

So as soon I quoted Shakib's minnow level ODI performances in SENA, you went back to overall performance so that likes of Zimbabwe etc can be included to make Shakib's stats look better

Chori pakri gayi...Isse pehle to bahut SENA SENA kar rahe the

So lets look Kapil's ODI performance in SENA compared to Shakib, shall we?

England:
Kapil bat avg - 48 with sr of 108, bowl avg 32

Shakib bat avg - 13 with sr of 59 , bowl avg 67 )

New Zealand:
Kapil bat avg 25 with sr of 88, bowl avg of 34

Shakib bat avg 23 with sr of 74, bowl avg 28

Australia:
Kapil bat avg of 24 with sr of 92, bowl avg 21

Shakib bat avg 24 with sr of 74, bowl avg 44

South Africa:
Kapil has less sample size bcoz cricket was banned that time in SA for apartheid. As a result he only played 7 ODIs there and avg 16 with bat at a strike rate of 75 and avgs 35 with ball.

Shakib has bat avg of 33 with sr of 66, bowl avg of 69.

During Kapil's era, the best team was WI and he avgs 25 with bat at a strike rate of 104 and bowling avg of 29. Shakib avgs 44 with the ball in WI even after playing against this inferior WI team.

Shakib's stats are heavily inflated by minnow bashing (not saying he don't play for one himself). You don't trust me? Let me explain.

That batting of 34 which you were so proudly highlighing, he avgs 116 vs Scotland in 3 games. Removes scotland, his batting avgs comes below 30
[MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] - FYI, wow check how Shakibs stats are flawed.

As i said many times if we consider all the formats this subcontinent has produced two great all rounders. One is Imran Khan and the other is Shakib al hasan. Kapil was mostly a slogger who could bowl decently. This further gets illustrated from the fact that Kapil failed to score a single double hundred even after playing almost 150 tests. its Not surprising though, as a tailender he did not have the technique to score big in tests.

Shakib and Imran the only two true world class allrounder from Asia. Writing the name of tailender Kapil beside them is an insult to these two giants of the game.

Obviously, this last para is a pure rant so not sure what to response here. But no expert ever rated Shakib as some great all rounder. He is on par with Jadeja as a test all rounder. Just because he playes for a weaker team like BD, he gets more oppurtunities. Had Jaddu was playing for BD, he would be one of your greats as well. But in real world, both Shakib and Jadeja are similar cricketers who are potenially below Stokes as current all rounder.

 

[BDfanforever]

Another poster was making a claim that he can compete with top tier bowlers or batsmen. I was simply disagreeing with him. You are also agreeing that his bowling or batting skills are not good enough to land him among the top 10 during his career. We are on same page here.

Sorry I don't think I was trying to say that he was comparable to Joe Root, ABD, or Hamla in just pure batting. Most of us agreed to your initial post. However, I tried to explain that when you start filtering too much with stats even ATG James Anerson can look ordinary(see below).

I was merely showing some stats that are interesting. Below is front line bowlers from each test playing nations, you can see that even when you compare him to the best of the best bowlers he does just fine, and he is just an allrounder.


Test Bowling Ave Away

1. Vernon Philander(RSA) 27
2. Mitchell Starc(AUS) 28
3. Shakib Al Hasan(BAN) 31
4. Trent Boult(NZ) 31
5. Ravi Ashwin(IND) 32
6. James Anderson(ENG) 33
7. Yasir Shah(PAK) 33
8. Rangana Herath(SRL) 39

 

[Canford Cliffs]

He has very good stats. He is a proper all-rounder, unlike many of our "all-rounders". I would say comfortably the best in the world if we are talking about all formats.

His stats are flawed though. Sorry to be jumping in bcoz I have nothing against Shakib. But truth be told and we need to evaluate how stats are manipulated.

As per his overall ODI stats, his batting avg is 34 and bowl avg 29. But most of them are due to minnow bashing. He played 3 ODIs against scotland and avgs 116. As a result, that bat avg is shooted up. If you only include test playing nations, he avgs 27 with bat and 40 with ball. See the variation and why sometimes stats should be taken with a pinch of salt. Shakib is a prime example actually.

 

[Romali_rotti]

So after getting caught red handed that Shakib never played test match in Aust, trying to change the topic. Also what do you mean by Kapil got smashed like a no-body. I thought test cricket is not about strike rates? But even if we go by your point, Kapil's economy rate is 2.74 compared to Shakib's 3.4

Its not Indian media, most pundits and experts acknowledge Dev as one of the best all rounders game has ever seen. No expert ever rated/included Shakib in their all time playing XI bcoz they his worth. But its quite understandable for a gullible BD fan to hype him around bcoz he is the only good cricketer they hv produced in their history. But in reality he is pure mediocre.




He was not injured but asked sabbatical from board in order to refresh his body.
https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/...cket-to-miss-south-africa-series-1515527.html

So basically he chickened out. He played all the garbage test series against Zimbos at home but decided to take a sabbatical in the only tough away tour BD was playing after long time. Basically he chickened out. Hence I said, a true jatta like Dev will never chicken out :dev



Yes 2 test matches in SA is all that took to define Shakib has great bowling record in SA? Do you even think before writing? In that case, Ravi Jadeja (who is a better all rounder than Shakib anyway IMHO) who played 1 test, has a legendary record in SA where he avgs 21 with the ball?



If he didnt chicken out in the last SA series and played the series by having accepted the challenge, he would have got same phainta and his record would hv been same as in ODIs. Atleast the likes of Kumble never chickened out and played 14 tests in SA and avgs 32.



So as soon I quoted Shakib's minnow level ODI performances in SENA, you went back to overall performance so that likes of Zimbabwe etc can be included to make Shakib's stats look better

Chori pakri gayi...Isse pehle to bahut SENA SENA kar rahe the

So lets look Kapil's ODI performance in SENA compared to Shakib, shall we?

England:
Kapil bat avg - 48 with sr of 108, bowl avg 32

Shakib bat avg - 13 with sr of 59 , bowl avg 67 )

New Zealand:
Kapil bat avg 25 with sr of 88, bowl avg of 34

Shakib bat avg 23 with sr of 74, bowl avg 28

Australia:
Kapil bat avg of 24 with sr of 92, bowl avg 21

Shakib bat avg 24 with sr of 74, bowl avg 44

South Africa:
Kapil has less sample size bcoz cricket was banned that time in SA for apartheid. As a result he only played 7 ODIs there and avg 16 with bat at a strike rate of 75 and avgs 35 with ball.

Shakib has bat avg of 33 with sr of 66, bowl avg of 69.

During Kapil's era, the best team was WI and he avgs 25 with bat at a strike rate of 104 and bowling avg of 29. Shakib avgs 44 with the ball in WI even after playing against this inferior WI team.

Shakib's stats are heavily inflated by minnow bashing (not saying he don't play for one himself). You don't trust me? Let me explain.

That batting of 34 which you were so proudly highlighing, he avgs 116 vs Scotland in 3 games. Removes scotland, his batting avgs comes below 30
[MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] - FYI, wow check how Shakibs stats are flawed.



Obviously, this last para is a pure rant so not sure what to response here. But no expert ever rated Shakib as some great all rounder. He is on par with Jadeja as a test all rounder. Just because he playes for a weaker team like BD, he gets more oppurtunities. Had Jaddu was playing for BD, he would be one of your greats as well. But in real world, both Shakib and Jadeja are similar cricketers who are potenially below Stokes as current all rounder.

Good lord when you dissect Sakib's stats like you did, he is much much terrible than what I thought he was...

 

[BDfanforever]

His stats are flawed though. Sorry to be jumping in bcoz I have nothing against Shakib. But truth be told and we need to evaluate how stats are manipulated.

As per his overall ODI stats, his batting avg is 34 and bowl avg 29. But most of them are due to minnow bashing. He played 3 ODIs against scotland and avgs 116. As a result, that bat avg is shooted up. If you only include test playing nations, he avgs 27 with bat and 40 with ball. See the variation and why sometimes stats should be taken with a pinch of salt. Shakib is a prime example actually.

Your 2nd best Test batsman average 29.30 in SENA, your best test bowler averages whopping 46 in SENA. You are absolutely right we should take stats with a pinch of salt.

 

[Ab Fan]

I clarified how Shakib stats are heavily misleading in ODIs in that Kapil vs Afridi thread.

His bowling avg was almost 38 against non-minnows and batting average was 32 but at a poor SR of 78.

In tests as well, Shakib stats are misleading because he hasn't faced the tough duels which other top teams get to face. His bowling average as clarified by [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] and then his batting average against the big boys. Clearly, they are not enough to label him ATG and while he is world class but don't think he will become ATG if he continues this stats accumulation for further part of his career.

A genuine all-rounder no doubt but not great in either of batting or bowling department. The 80s quartet and the legendary Jacques Kallis are ones you call ATGs.

Ben Stokes and Shakib-Al-Hasan are around same level.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Your 2nd best Test batsman average 29.30 in SENA, your best test bowler averages whopping 46 in SENA. You are absolutely right we should take stats with a pinch of salt.

And most fans don't do any chest thumping calling them ATGs or whatever and want them out for such poor performances. See the difference?

 

[Executioner]

Last time Shakib played in SA was 08 and against England in 2010

Ofcourse he won't have great stats there. He was a teenager when he played against SA.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Last time Shakib played in SA was 08 and against England in 2010

Ofcourse he won't have great stats there. He was a teenager when he played against SA.

Ok

Add to the fact, he has not played in Australia.


How is he an ATG again ? l