Shamima Begum loses citizenship removal appeal bid [Post Updated #689]

[IMMY69]

I think the fear here is the application of the law going forward.
Today they take away the citizenship of a brown/Asian girl for marrying a terrorist when she was 15 tomorrow they can do the same for another British Asian who commits a lesser crime..

and all this without even a proper court hearing.

 

[Pakpak]

I think the fear here is the application of the law going forward.
Today they take away the citizenship of a brown/Asian girl for marrying a terrorist when she was 15 tomorrow they can do the same for another British Asian who commits a lesser crime..

and all this without even a proper court hearing.

Pretty much. And [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] was correct that the gov had Patel and Sajid Javed do it so they can hide behind any excuses of racism.

 

[IMMY69]

Pretty much. And [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] was correct that the gov had Patel and Sajid Javed do it so they can hide behind any excuses of racism.

Yes Capt. Rishwat has a valid point too.
Patel will do anything for Boris, the Zionists and probably India too.
Sajid only cares for his own career and will do what he's told and has the right background

 

[faraz39]

Joining a "Terrorist" group is a crime
Joining a criminal gang isn't a crime commiting "an action" while in that group is a crime
Those rape victims were groomed and raped

So from whichever presepective you look at it those victims didn't commit a "crime", the kid in the inner city joining a gang isn't a crime

But joining a Terrorist group is a crime that she knew she was commiting just like a murderer commiting a murder knew he was commiting a crime

If you think it shouldn't be a crime (just like joining a criminal gang) that's another issue

But she knew she was commiting a crime (even though she was groomed)
Just like a teenage murderer knew he was commiting a crime (even though he was groomed for it)

So those girls had only one thing in common "groomed" but unlike the other examples they didn't a crime

She was groomed just like the white girls. 15 year old girls from the UK do not just go to another country to marry people they've never met. There are document cases where ISIS targeted young western Muslim girls on twitter and other social media to indoctrinate them over time to come over.

I see absolutely no difference between a 15 year white girl being groomed by a UK drug gang and her being groomed by ISIS at the same age other than their skin color, ethnicity, and religion.

Plus she married someone who was ISIS. That doesn't mean she joined the group. In the eyes of the law, being married to a criminal is not the same as being a criminal.

 

[Technics 1210]

Anyone who entered the UK through the grey channels of the EU will never understand the point of citizenship; because they cheated the system.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I suggest you go look at her interviews.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181

PS: By most Browns I mean Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Indians do not have dual nationality in the UK.

I had a quick skim through and couldn't see anything that would prevent her coming home and being put on trial. If anything in that interview her main concern seems to be to get her child to safety even at the expense of her own freedom.

Is there something you want me to pay particular attention to? maybe I missed it.

 

[Buffet]

Which law prevents the revoking of citizenship?

She can't be stateless.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Thats' her today, doesn't really look to be living the ISIS lifestyle.

 

[Buffet]

Matey. The white terrorist sympathisers in the UK demonstrated remorse. SB didn't show any remorse despite growing into an adult and being a mother.

Plus many whites in the UK do not have dual citizenship; and I am refering to the indigenous ones.

The fact SB has dual citizenship and showed no remorse is the reason it boils down to revoking UK citizenship.

Remember, many browns are dual national in the UK, despite being born here.

If another country refused to take the person then the person is stateless.

Why won't you try the person under UK law? It also sets a wrong precedent and UK can start taking away citizenship for many random reasons.

 

[CricketCartoons]

If another country refused to take the person then the person is stateless.

Why won't you try the person under UK law? It also sets a wrong precedent and UK can start taking away citizenship for many random reasons.

Looks like UK wants to set the precedent that minorities should not think they will get equal treatment when they cross to the wrong side.

 

[Varun]

Well it is a fact that more British Muslims have headed toward ISIS than have joined the British military.

 

[MenInG]

Well it is a fact that more British Muslims have headed toward ISIS than have joined the British military.

HUGE claim.

Will need verification asap - please provide.

 

[Varun]

HUGE claim.

Will need verification asap - please provide.

I'm on phone but here's a link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...lims-are-fighting-for-ISIL-than-the-Army.html

 

[Technics 1210]

Pay attention to the fact she showed no remorse. She was deemed a threat to national security after showing no remorse.

The laws of dual nationality can prevent her from entering the UK.

Under international law, it is only legal to revoke someone's citizenship if an individual is entitled to citizenship of another country. She is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship. Whether she gets it or not is irrelevant.

UK can strip any dual national of their UK citizenship post 1981. Also if a UK/PAK dual national is in Pakistan for example and war breaks out, the UK is not obliged to save that individual. This applies to all dual nationals.

Her children do not even get automatic UK citizenship despite SB being born in the UK.

It would be a dangerous precedent if she is allowed back to the UK. Time to get tough.

I for one wouldn't want my taxes spent on her trial funded by legal aid.

 

[IMMY69]

Well it is a fact that more British Muslims have headed toward ISIS than have joined the British military.

Wow did you really say that?

 

[ahsan17]

Well it is a fact that more British Muslims have headed toward ISIS than have joined the British military.

It's not an accurate claim. They were comparing cumulative number of British Muslims that have ever fought for ISIS (i.e. those that were fighting at that time, those that had died, those that had stopped) v/s those that were part of British military at a single point in time.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/re...-trump-needs-check-facts-british-muslims-isis

 

[shaz619]

Pay attention to the fact she showed no remorse. She was deemed a threat to national security after showing no remorse.

The laws of dual nationality can prevent her from entering the UK.

Under international law, it is only legal to revoke someone's citizenship if an individual is entitled to citizenship of another country. She is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship. Whether she gets it or not is irrelevant.

UK can strip any dual national of their UK citizenship post 1981. Also if a UK/PAK dual national is in Pakistan for example and war breaks out, the UK is not obliged to save that individual. This applies to all dual nationals.

Her children do not even get automatic UK citizenship despite SB being born in the UK.

It would be a dangerous precedent if she is allowed back to the UK. Time to get tough.

I for one wouldn't want my taxes spent on her trial funded by legal aid.

Bangladesh have denied she is their citizen and don’t want her back, she was born here in the UK and lived here; the crime she committed was horrible and we should convict her at home. Revoking her citizenship sets a dangerous precedent by advocating unjustly kicking someone out, the truth is for British Asians / Minorities, their home will always be the UK, they are not accepted anywhere else. This decision is inspired more by Islamaphobia in the Tory party then anything else and racism, they want to get rid of everyone and this is the first step they have taken, Sajid Coconut Khan and all his followers who like to go to bed with the racist whites made / agree with this decision purely to pander to their masters but in doing so have spat on all Muslims in the UK and turned their backs on their faith, this will only promote more hate crime against Muslims in the UK

 

[IMMY69]

^^^^
Not only is it inaccurate but the figures involved are minuscule and the reasons for some of these British going to Syria has nothing to do with blowing themselves up ala ISIS...

Straight out of Donald Trumps handbook..

 

[IMMY69]

Bangladesh have denied she is their citizen and don’t want her back, she was born here in the UK and lived here; the crime she committed was horrible and we should convict her at home. Revoking her citizenship sets a dangerous precedent by advocating unjustly kicking someone out, the truth is for British Asians / Minorities, their home will always be the UK, they are not accepted anywhere else. This decision is inspired more by Islamaphobia in the Tory party then anything else and racism, they want to get rid of everyone and this is the first step they have taken, Sajid Coconut Khan and all his followers who like to go to bed with the racist whites made / agree with this decision purely to pander to their masters but in doing so have spat on all Muslims in the UK and turned their backs on their faith, this will only promote more hate crime against Muslims in the UK

This unfortunately is the truth

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pay attention to the fact she showed no remorse. She was deemed a threat to national security after showing no remorse.

I already asked you to provide some substance to this, and all you did was provide a link to a news article. I read the article and couldn't find any conclusive proof that it is true. Again I will ask did I miss something?

 

[Technics 1210]

I already asked you to provide some substance to this, and all you did was provide a link to a news article. I read the article and couldn't find any conclusive proof that it is true. Again I will ask did I miss something?

It was one news article. Then you asked for evidence that would prevent her from being tried in the UK.

Here's another :

https://news.sky.com/story/i-dont-r...l-wants-to-return-to-uk-for-her-baby-11636715

This isn't a case of racism as some make it out to be.

Once again, she is a national threat as she showed no remorse or regret.

 

[Local.Dada]

It’s heart warming to see all of a sudden there are so many champions of western concepts like democracy, constitution etc. I wonder what would happen if these values clash with another set of values.

Anyways, I didn’t know we had so many lawyers or wannabe lawyers on here when it comes to legal points, good to know.

Do you really think if UK was such a huge stickler for rules,laws, etc they would be able to rule over 80% of the world?

They do what’s good for them and that’s their success story.

When it comes to security threat like this woman (not a girl anymore), England is well
within their rights to make an exception, tweak the rules and ask her to get the hell out. As simple as that. Law and order and constitution are man made anyways.

People make it seem like this is an innocent sweet girl with ambitions of making world a better place. Deserves 0 sympathies.

Had it been a situation with a Pakistan citizen, the reaction would have been different and that is fine. You should take strict measures for national security and treat a traitor like one.

Stop wasting time and resources on these types.

The world has a great example for kids with this woman, You turn your back against the country this is what happens. A modern day real moral
Science lesson

I am so happy to see Uk govt not bowling down to pressure to compromise their national security. Excellent work.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It was one news article. Then you asked for evidence that would prevent her from being tried in the UK.

Here's another :

https://news.sky.com/story/i-dont-r...l-wants-to-return-to-uk-for-her-baby-11636715

This isn't a case of racism as some make it out to be.

Once again, she is a national threat as she showed no remorse or regret.

Instead of asking me to read through various articles, why not just post a quote?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It’s heart warming to see all of a sudden there are so many champions of western concepts like democracy, constitution etc. I wonder what would happen if these values clash with another set of values.

Anyways, I didn’t know we had so many lawyers or wannabe lawyers on here when it comes to legal points, good to know.

Do you really think if UK was such a huge stickler for rules,laws, etc they would be able to rule over 80% of the world?

They do what’s good for them and that’s their success story.

When it comes to security threat like this woman (not a girl anymore), England is well
within their rights to make an exception, tweak the rules and ask her to get the hell out. As simple as that. Law and order and constitution are man made anyways.

People make it seem like this is an innocent sweet girl with ambitions of making world a better place. Deserves 0 sympathies.

Had it been a situation with a Pakistan citizen, the reaction would have been different and that is fine. You should take strict measures for national security and treat a traitor like one.

Stop wasting time and resources on these types.

The world has a great example for kids with this woman, You turn your back against the country this is what happens. A modern day real moral
Science lesson

I am so happy to see Uk govt not bowling down to pressure to compromise their national security. Excellent work.

You seem to be consistently missing the point, not sure if it's deliberate or just the saffron specs and their special orange focus mode is on. British citizens who come from ethnic backgrounds don't want to feel that they are judged any different to those from Anglo Saxon stock. Was Jihadi Jack Letts stripped of his citizenship? He also had Canadian heritage. It could be argued there was actually more reason to strip him as he actually holds Canadian citizenship.

 

[Technics 1210]

Instead of asking me to read through various articles, why not just post a quote?

You asked for an articles. I think you do need to read up on this news. This isn't a case of white vs brown terrorist sympathiser like you made it out to be.

 

[Technics 1210]

120 suspected Jihadis/Criminals were stripped of their UK citizenship since 2016.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ripped-of-uk-citizenship-before-shamima-begum

 

[Local.Dada]

You seem to be consistently missing the point, not sure if it's deliberate or just the saffron specs and their special orange focus mode is on. British citizens who come from ethnic backgrounds don't want to feel that they are judged any different to those from Anglo Saxon stock. Was Jihadi Jack Letts stripped of his citizenship? He also had Canadian heritage. It could be argued there was actually more reason to strip him as he actually holds Canadian citizenship.

What happened in Canada is Canada’s problem. Again why are you bringing in these equivalences?

I have seen too many times, immigrants first escape persecution or come to countries for better life , take refuge or try to put their heads down and work hard but slowly start demanding extra perks as minorities than eventually ask if they can implement their laws and then eventually ask everyone to follow their laws. Plenty of such incidents in Europe etc.

This is Infact the best chance for the ethnic immigrant to stand up with their government and prove their loyalty by saying we can’t accept these kind of people ruin our positive contribution to your society.

 

[IMMY69]

What happened in Canada is Canada’s problem. Again why are you bringing in these equivalences?

I have seen too many times, immigrants first escape persecution or come to countries for better life , take refuge or try to put their heads down and work hard but slowly start demanding extra perks as minorities than eventually ask if they can implement their laws and then eventually ask everyone to follow their laws. Plenty of such incidents in Europe etc.

This is Infact the best chance for the ethnic immigrant to stand up with their government and prove their loyalty by saying we can’t accept these kind of people ruin our positive contribution to your society.

My kids didn't come here as immigrants.

 

[sweep_shot]

What happened in Canada is Canada’s problem. Again why are you bringing in these equivalences?

I have seen too many times, immigrants first escape persecution or come to countries for better life , take refuge or try to put their heads down and work hard but slowly start demanding extra perks as minorities than eventually ask if they can implement their laws and then eventually ask everyone to follow their laws. Plenty of such incidents in Europe etc.

This is Infact the best chance for the ethnic immigrant to stand up with their government and prove their loyalty by saying we can’t accept these kind of people ruin our positive contribution to your society.

Shamima Begum is not an immigrant. She was born and bred in UK.

What is ethnic immigrant? LOL. Do you mean white people?

 

[Local.Dada]

My kids didn't come here as immigrants.

Then it becomes even more important for them to be outstanding citizens and try maintain the positive reputations of their community.

I would want my kids to be a Priti Patel or Sadiq Khan. They might belong to differing political spectrum but still the shining example of the smart, hardworking South Asian.

South Asians including Muslims who
Relatively speaking have a more difficult time due to all those negative tropes. have come a long way to raise the community profile .

last thing people need is such trash ruining it for everyone.

 

[Local.Dada]

Shamima Begum is not an immigrant. She was born and bred in UK.

What is ethnic immigrant? LOL. Do you mean white people?

I don’t think she herself considers to be a British than the people defending her trying to prove her Britishness.

Also wonder what upbringing or living conditions she must have had if she thought joining ISIs was a path through her freedom.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What happened in Canada is Canada’s problem. Again why are you bringing in these equivalences?

I have seen too many times, immigrants first escape persecution or come to countries for better life , take refuge or try to put their heads down and work hard but slowly start demanding extra perks as minorities than eventually ask if they can implement their laws and then eventually ask everyone to follow their laws. Plenty of such incidents in Europe etc.

This is Infact the best chance for the ethnic immigrant to stand up with their government and prove their loyalty by saying we can’t accept these kind of people ruin our positive contribution to your society.

Jack Letts is a British citizen living in Britain.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You asked for an articles. I think you do need to read up on this news. This isn't a case of white vs brown terrorist sympathiser like you made it out to be.

I didn't ask for an article, I asked for some substantive proof that she had showed no remorse. A quote is better for that purpose than an opinion piece from a newspaper.

 

[Local.Dada]

Jack Letts is a British citizen living in Britain.

Look man to you and some of the above posters, you guys are getting too hung up on the technical jargons and legal loopholes, I am assuming none of us are lawyers. So,let me simplify for everyone who tries to find these quotes like they are fighting a legal battle for this woman,

when I see trash in my home, I would rather not spend time researching where it came from etc, I would want to clean it up and move on. We put our lovable pets to sleep when they are diseased, not wanting a brainwashed jihadi in the society is as straightforward as it gets, unless you are getting money to fight her case. It’s black and white here, no shades of grey.

 

[Buffet]

120 suspected Jihadis/Criminals were stripped of their UK citizenship since 2016.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ripped-of-uk-citizenship-before-shamima-begum

It seems UK has taken away the citizenship of the UK born earlier as well. The precedent was set earlier and not really in the current case. One parent renounced the dual citizenship of kids to protect.

I personally don't agree with taking away citizenship for anyone born there. You simply have laws to deal with them. I suspect too many were joining IS and hard-line by Gov may be an attempt to discourage more such instances, but once you go down this path, there is no end to taking away citizenships for various reasons under the excuse of national security.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Then it becomes even more important for them to be outstanding citizens and try maintain the positive reputations of their community.

I would want my kids to be a Priti Patel or Sadiq Khan. They might belong to differing political spectrum but still the shining example of the smart, hardworking South Asian.

South Asians including Muslims who
Relatively speaking have a more difficult time due to all those negative tropes. have come a long way to raise the community profile .

last thing people need is such trash ruining it for everyone.

I think that is racist to be quite honest, why should people of darker skin heritage be expected to prove their communities value than white citizens?

Look man to you and some of the above posters, you guys are getting too hung up on the technical jargons and legal loopholes, I am assuming none of us are lawyers. So,let me simplify for everyone who tries to find these quotes like they are fighting a legal battle for this woman,

when I see trash in my home, I would rather not spend time researching where it came from etc, I would want to clean it up and move on. We put our lovable pets to sleep when they are diseased, not wanting a brainwashed jihadi in the society is as straightforward as it gets, unless you are getting money to fight her case. It’s black and white here, no shades of grey.

Don't know why this needs to keep being repeated, but she is not an immigrant, she is born and raised in Britain. We have to take responsibility for her and bring her here for trial. Otherwise we are effectively dumping responsibility onto the Syrians who can probably ill afford it.

 

[sweep_shot]

Look man to you and some of the above posters, you guys are getting too hung up on the technical jargons and legal loopholes, I am assuming none of us are lawyers. So,let me simplify for everyone who tries to find these quotes like they are fighting a legal battle for this woman,

when I see trash in my home, I would rather not spend time researching where it came from etc, I would want to clean it up and move on. We put our lovable pets to sleep when they are diseased, not wanting a brainwashed jihadi in the society is as straightforward as it gets, unless you are getting money to fight her case. It’s black and white here, no shades of grey.

I don’t think she herself considers to be a British than the people defending her trying to prove her Britishness.

Also wonder what upbringing or living conditions she must have had if she thought joining ISIs was a path through her freedom.

Your logic is flawed.

There is no racist caste system in UK (like there is in India). Things work differently in UK.

If someone is born in UK, she should not lose citizenship. It is like canceling Indian citizenship of an Indian criminal just because he is a criminal.

 

[Local.Dada]

I think that is racist to be quite honest, why should people of darker skin heritage be expected to prove their communities value than white citizens?





Don't know why this needs to keep being repeated, but she is not an immigrant, she is born and raised in Britain. We have to take responsibility for her and bring her here for trial. Otherwise we are effectively dumping responsibility onto the Syrians who can probably ill afford it.

Nothing racist about it. Words like islamophobia exist in dictionaries for a reason. If you want to be blind about it, suit yourself. I am a South Asian too and I have been mistaken for a Muslim in the west many times, and don’t think it was in a positive light. First step to treatment is acknowledging a problem and diagnosing it. We don’t live in a utopia.

 

[Local.Dada]

Your logic is flawed.

There is no racist caste system in UK (like there is in India). Things work differently in UK.

If someone is born in UK, she should not lose citizenship. It is like canceling Indian citizenship of an Indian criminal just because he is a criminal.

Mainstream society is filled with generalizations, bias and stereotypes. These people add to those tropes and it becomes our responsibility even more to acknowledge and be vocal about such trash.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Nothing racist about it. Words like islamophobia exist in dictionaries for a reason. If you want to be blind about it, suit yourself. I am a South Asian too and I have been mistaken for a Muslim in the west many times, and don’t think it was in a positive light. First step to treatment is acknowledging a problem and diagnosing it. We don’t live in a utopia.

You are an Indian, your thinking will naturally be like that of an immigrant, I am talking about citizens who are born and brought up in the UK, not specifically Shamima either. We non-white Brits don't want to be considered any different to our fellow Saxon Brits just because our ethnic heritage is different.

I know this is a foreign concept for you, as it should be, you are a foreigner. This is something only genuine Brits will understand, and perhaps other PP'ers who have been born outside of Asia.

 

[Technics 1210]

I didn't ask for an article, I asked for some substantive proof that she had showed no remorse. A quote is better for that purpose than an opinion piece from a newspaper.

Then go watch her interviews.

 

[Technics 1210]

SB has categorically stated, and I quote - "I have no regrets", but she did regret giving interviews to the media.

The Muslim community in the UK should fight against these Jihadi wannabees, not feel pity towards them and pull out the justice/liberal argument.

She should be a lesson to anyone thinking of doing the same. UK mustn't set the precedent by allowing her back in the UK.

 

[Robert]

I already asked you to provide some substance to this, and all you did was provide a link to a news article. I read the article and couldn't find any conclusive proof that it is true. Again I will ask did I miss something?

Whether she showed remorse or not is irrelevant. If there is evidence that she committed a crime she should be charged and stand trial. Remorse only has relevance in sentencing. If she is found guilty and shows remorse that will be a mitigating factor and the sentence lessened.

 

[observer1]

The UK have a populist government in charge under Boris. This is easy point scoring for them.



This "Little remorse" rhetoric needs to end. The facts are simple... This was a 15 year old groomed, naive and emotionally scarred teenager who has buried more than one child.

She made a stupid mistake and fell for ISIS Propaganda when it was at it's Peak, like many others.

I mean, Armed Soldiers feeling alittle bit upset after wrecking Afghanistan and Iraq get all sorts of sympathy for their PTSD. Does Shamima not get recognized for making a horrible mistake and also facing death and suffering around her at a young age?

Nobody has defended her actions. Her own family called her out on it.

It would make much more sense that she was imprisoned and rehabilitated. Put a media blackout on her name and give her a change of identity. I find the chances she'll join ISIS again negligible.

 

[Buffet]

SB has categorically stated, and I quote - "I have no regrets", but she did regret giving interviews to the media.

The Muslim community in the UK should fight against these Jihadi wannabees, not feel pity towards them and pull out the justice/liberal argument.

She should be a lesson to anyone thinking of doing the same. UK mustn't set the precedent by allowing her back in the UK.

Yes, fight it by trial in court in the UK and giving punishment. You can even pass harsher laws to deter youths from joining IS.

The issue is not about this specific person.

 

[Technics 1210]

Whether she showed remorse or not is irrelevant. If there is evidence that she committed a crime she should be charged and stand trial. Remorse only has relevance in sentencing. If she is found guilty and shows remorse that will be a mitigating factor and the sentence lessened.

Showing remorse in this case is completely relevant. She is not being allowed into the UK becuase she has no regrets of what she did. This is enough to deem her a national threat.

This has got nothing to do with trial. What UK law has she broken?

Remember the decision to revoke her UK citizenship was by the Home Office, not a court of law.

 

[Technics 1210]

Yes, fight it by trial in court in the UK and giving punishment. You can even pass harsher laws to deter youths from joining IS.

The issue is not about this specific person.

What UK law did she break?

 

[Buffet]

Whether she showed remorse or not is irrelevant. If there is evidence that she committed a crime she should be charged and stand trial. Remorse only has relevance in sentencing. If she is found guilty and shows remorse that will be a mitigating factor and the sentence lessened.

+1

Not sure why discussion about remorse is going here. That's not relevant to decide if person should be on trial in UK.

 

[Buffet]

What UK law did she break?

I am not an expert of UK laws to tell which law she broke. That's why let the court in the UK decide.

 

[Technics 1210]

I am not an expert of UK laws to tell which law she broke. That's why let the court in the UK decide.

So you don't know. She hasn't. This is the answer.

I also have news for you, the UK courts do not decide if she goes to court and should be tried, the Home office/CPS do.

She is a terrorist sympathiser, a danger to the community, and a national threat. Keep her out.

Unless you are a dual national in the UK, you will be completely unaware of the intricacies involved here.

No remorse. No regret. No entry.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes, fight it by trial in court in the UK and giving punishment. You can even pass harsher laws to deter youths from joining IS.

The issue is not about this specific person.

Yes this is what these Trump wannabe's on PP are missing. This is a bigger issue than Shamim, neither is it about sympathy for her position. It is about ramifications for British citizens of ethnic heritage in general, and are they being judged by different standards for one. Also, shows lack of faith in our own justice system which begs the question is it fit for purpose then if we don't back our judges?

 

[Technics 1210]

The liberals want a terrorist to return to the UK because of ramifications for ethnic minorites. I got news for you, most ethnic minorites don't pack their bags and go fight a foreign war, participating in murder and what not, get married, have kids, and then decide to come home because they want to claim child benefit.

She is an extenuating circumstance, and she must be dealt that way. Made an example of.

The Home office has not broken any international law or UK law.

 

[Robert]

Yes this is what these Trump wannabe's on PP are missing. This is a bigger issue than Shamim, neither is it about sympathy for her position. It is about ramifications for British citizens of ethnic heritage in general, and are they being judged by different standards for one. Also, shows lack of faith in our own justice system which begs the question is it fit for purpose then if we don't back our judges?

As someone pointed out, if she was a white girl named Jemima Brown she would not have had her citizenship revoked.

But I would go further. This is about the rights of the invididual citizen vs. authoritarian state power. That's what we liberals are for. Standing up to power so all shall be free - Shamina or Jemima - and if they abuse their freedom, shall get a fair trial by their peers.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The liberals want a terrorist to return to the UK because of ramifications for ethnic minorites. I got news for you, most ethnic minorites don't pack their bags and go fight a foreign war, participating in murder and what not, get married, have kids, and then decide to come home because they want to claim child benefit.

She is an extenuating circumstance, and she must be dealt that way. Made an example of.

The Home office has not broken any international law or UK law.

Actually you don't need to be an ethnic minority to be made an extenuating circumstance and made an example of. We could do the same with white rapists or child molesters in Asia. Perhaps we already have?

They would certainly pose a danger to our society if they returned home, maybe it should be routine course of action, no need for extenuating circumstances.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

As someone pointed out, if she was a white girl named Jemima Brown she would not have had her citizenship revoked.

But I would go further. This is about the rights of the invididual citizen vs. authoritarian state power. That's what we liberals are for. Standing up to power so all shall be free - Shamina or Jemima - and if they abuse their freedom, shall get a fair trial by their peers.

This is the gist of it. No one want criminals or terrorists in this country, what we want is the same rules to apply to all British citizens regardless of ethnic heritage. We should have confidence in our own judicial system to deal with these renegades, and if we don't then what is the point of it?

Americans under Biden have started accepting back their terrorists I see. No doubt they will be dealt with, which is far better than leaving them for Syrians or Iraqis to deal with.

 

[Buffet]

So you don't know. She hasn't. This is the answer.

I also have news for you, the UK courts do not decide if she goes to court and should be tried, the Home office/CPS do.

She is a terrorist sympathiser, a danger to the community, and a national threat. Keep her out.

Unless you are a dual national in the UK, you will be completely unaware of the intricacies involved here.

No remorse. No regret. No entry.

If UK's law is not allowing to punish someone even if the person is a security threat then it seems UK law is a problem and that needs to be fixed. I won't even go into a discussion about her being a security threat here.

The home office is part of the entire government and not some dictator. Court, Government, and the judiciary are all about having rules and regulations which get applied to everyone in the same fashion. If the law can't deal with certain situations, then change the law.

Does she hold citizenship of any other country? If not then UK is breaking the international convention of 1961 by making someone stateless.

 

[Buffet]

As someone pointed out, if she was a white girl named Jemima Brown she would not have had her citizenship revoked.

But I would go further. This is about the rights of the invididual citizen vs. authoritarian state power. That's what we liberals are for. Standing up to power so all shall be free - Shamina or Jemima - and if they abuse their freedom, shall get a fair trial by their peers.

That's the key point here. I am not registered as a democrat or republican. I hate it when people don't argue the point and start throwing tags about liberal or conservative.

 

[Technics 1210]

Actually you don't need to be an ethnic minority to be made an extenuating circumstance and made an example of. We could do the same with white rapists or child molesters in Asia. Perhaps we already have?

They would certainly pose a danger to our society if they returned home, maybe it should be routine course of action, no need for extenuating circumstances.

As it has been mentioned, most whites in the UK are not dual national, so they are not entitled to citizenship elsewhere so by default they can return to the UK and face trial etc or be extradited to the UK regardless of the 'crime' commited or the colour of their skin.

There are many cases where UK nationals have served time abroad, then sent back to the UK. But SB has not served anytime let alone charged with a crime.

Arresting UK nationals of all colours and creed of suspected criminals etc upon arrival is routine course. You and I just don't get to read about them in mainstream media.

SB is an immigration case first, she hasn't been charged with a crime in the UK or elsewhere, but her intent was clear, plus her case is made more complex by the fact she now has a child, which does not grant her automatic UK citizenship hence an extenuating circumstance. It's the child that is stateless; and the child was not born in the UK. This is the crux of the matter. This is the reason SB wants to return; using her child as a free pass and expecting sympathy from the nation.

Now assuming SB is allowed back in the UK; her child is now a welfare burden while she is facing what not in the UK. Rule number 1 of UK immigration - you must prove you will not be a burden to the state.

Yes, just because we have rapists, child molesters, terrorists etc in the UK doesn't mean we let more into the UK, but thanks to the like of interpol etc its easy to track suspected criminals.

When you have time, read up on the ECO guidelines for UK immigration. ECO - Exit Control Officer.

It highlights all the rules and requirements and the violations for UK immigration.

Irony is, if SB didn't have a child, the UK would more than likely allow her in. But coupled with her lack of remorse, lack of regret, and clear intent, the ECO guidelines are very clear - she must be denied entry to the UK.

 

[Technics 1210]

As someone pointed out, if she was a white girl named Jemima Brown she would not have had her citizenship revoked.

But I would go further. This is about the rights of the invididual citizen vs. authoritarian state power. That's what we liberals are for. Standing up to power so all shall be free - Shamina or Jemima - and if they abuse their freedom, shall get a fair trial by their peers.

If she was a white girl then odds are she was not a dual national thus no revocation of citizenship.

Please stop making this issue a racist one. This case is more to do with immigration than the colour of one's skin.

 

[IMMY69]

"A child born overseas to a British national will be deemed a British citizen by descent. However, the process of registration will have to be completed in order for the young person to be able to apply for a British passport. Parents can register the child for citizenship using the application form MN1"

 

[Technics 1210]

If UK's law is not allowing to punish someone even if the person is a security threat then it seems UK law is a problem and that needs to be fixed. I won't even go into a discussion about her being a security threat here.

The home office is part of the entire government and not some dictator. Court, Government, and the judiciary are all about having rules and regulations which get applied to everyone in the same fashion. If the law can't deal with certain situations, then change the law.

Does she hold citizenship of any other country? If not then UK is breaking the international convention of 1961 by making someone stateless.

You are wrong.

The law is whether she is entitled to another citizenship, not whether she has one.

SB is an immigration case, not a criminal case.

Do you live in the UK and have dual nationality? If no, you got squat idea of what you are talking about.

 

[IMMY69]

You are wrong.

The law is whether she is entitled to another citizenship, not whether she has one.

SB is an immigration case, not a criminal case.

Do you live in the UK and have dual nationality? If no, you got squat idea of what you are talking about.

So my child, who was born and bred in the Uk, can have their citizenship revoked due to their parents being born elsewhere? Even though they know nothing else other then living in England?

 

[Technics 1210]

That's the key point here. I am not registered as a democrat or republican. I hate it when people don't argue the point and start throwing tags about liberal or conservative.

You are doing a typical amreekan move. Thinking USA laws apply around the world.

I hate it when non UK posters pretend to know more about the UK than those born and bred in the UK.

You claimed the courts decide who goes on trial, your claim was wrong. It's the HO, not the courts. Save this mantra of HO being part of the government checks and balances. You need to read up on UK laws.

I'm not going to argue with an Amreekan on UK immigration law.

 

[Buffet]

You are wrong.

The law is whether she is entitled to another citizenship, not whether she has one.

SB is an immigration case, not a criminal case.

Do you live in the UK and have dual nationality? If no, you got squat idea of what you are talking about.

Entitlement counts for zero if another country has already refused to give citizenship.

Yeah, no one should have commented on Hitler because they did not live in Germany and had no idea about the situation in Germany.

 

[Buffet]

You are doing a typical amreekan move. Thinking USA laws apply around the world.

I hate it when non UK posters pretend to know more about the UK than those born and bred in the UK.

You claimed the courts decide who goes on trial, your claim was wrong. It's the HO, not the courts. Save this mantra of HO being part of the government checks and balances. You need to read up on UK laws.

I'm not going to argue with an Amreekan on UK immigration law.

Did I pass any statement where I pretend to know about UK?

 

[Technics 1210]

Did I pass any statement where I pretend to know about UK?

Yes. Your opinion on SB's case. It's all here for everyone to read.

Admit you have resorted to Google in this thread because you have no idea ok UK immigration law.

While UK prevents the seperation of mother and child, USA endorses this practise.

Your immigration laws are something seperate. You have many stateless and un-tried civilians in Guantanamo Bay.

 

[Technics 1210]

Entitlement counts for zero if another country has already refused to give citizenship.

Yeah, no one should have commented on Hitler because they did not live in Germany and had no idea about the situation in Germany.

This isn't amreeka.

You need to learn what entighlitment means. I got more news for you, SB's child is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship. Bangladesh have not refused citizenship to her child, but to SB alone.

You have no idea sitting in a country that seperates children from parents. I bet you're not a dual national either.

Your opening gambit in this thread is that UK courts decide whether there is a criminal case. Home office and CPS decide if there is a case in the UK, not the UK courts.

Are you Bangladeshi in Amreeka by chance?

 

[Buffet]

This isn't amreeka.

You need to learn what entighlitment means. I got more news for you, SB's child is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship. Bangladesh have not refused citizenship to her child, but to SB alone.

You have no idea sitting in a country that seperates children from parents. I bet you're not a dual national either.

Your opening gambit in this thread is that UK courts decide whether there is a criminal case. Home office and CPS decide if there is a case in the UK, not the UK courts.

Are you Bangladeshi in Amreeka by chance?

No, I am not, but why the fascination with posters?

I see some time in the cricket forum as well. Certain posters don't want to talk about the topic and want to discuss the poster if and when the reply is not to their liking.

It shouldn't make any difference if I am white, black, or brown. Anyone in the world should be able to comment if we notice unfair treatment.

 

[Technics 1210]

No, I am not, but why the fascination with posters?

I see some time in the cricket forum as well. Certain posters don't want to talk about the topic and want to discuss the poster.

I am talking about this topic, just you are ignorant of UK laws being an Amreekan. Cricket forum blah blah is irrelevant.

Time you stop pretending you know more than others living in Amreeka, especially UK immigration laws.

 

[Buffet]

Yes. Your opinion on SB's case. It's all here for everyone to read.

Admit you have resorted to Google in this thread because you have no idea ok UK immigration law.

While UK prevents the seperation of mother and child, USA endorses this practise.

Your immigration laws are something seperate. You have many stateless and un-tried civilians in Guantanamo Bay.[

I have spoken against untried civilians as well.

You are getting confused about the issue here. Horrible Laws don't mean they become good just because they are the law. German passed laws before gassing millions. US doing something did not make it right.

 

[Technics 1210]

Yes. Your opinion on SB's case. It's all here for everyone to read.

Admit you have resorted to Google in this thread because you have no idea ok UK immigration law.

While UK prevents the seperation of mother and child, USA endorses this practise.

Your immigration laws are something seperate. You have many stateless and un-tried civilians in Guantanamo Bay.[/QUOTE]

I have spoken against untried civilians as well. You are getting confused about the issue here. Horrible Laws don't mean they become good just because they are the law. German passed laws before gassing millions.

Not the point.

I am well aware of the situation and point here. You are not being an amreekan.

Stick to US laws.

PS: Save the Godwin law (you can look this up too).

 

[IMMY69]

Looney right wing extreme fanatics... every country has them, some more then others

 

[Zaz]

I usually detest terrorist sympathisers but this case is a travesty of justice. She was a minor who was groomed. Furthermore, the Bangladesh government has made it clear on multiple occasions that she was never a Bangladeshi citizen nor will she be granted citizenship or even be allowed to enter the country. Therefore, this ruling is effectively making her stateless.

By all means the UK government should try her and imprison her if found guilty of any crimes she has committed, according to UK law. The UK can't just abandon her or pawn her off to another country.

Sajid Javid is a sick, self-hating individual.

Spot on I believe her race is the reason for this

I cant see them doing the same if this was a white girl

Its a blatantly racist precedent

 

[Robert]

If she was a white girl then odds are she was not a dual national thus no revocation of citizenship.

Please stop making this issue a racist one. This case is more to do with immigration than the colour of one's skin.

She was a born Briton. British by birthright. Of course it’s a race issue. Sajid was playing to the xenophobic crowd.

 

[IMMY69]

She was a born Briton. British by birthright. Of course it’s a race issue. Sajid was playing to the xenophobic crowd.

That's the point.
She's not an immigrant

 

[CricketCartoons]

That's the point.
She's not an immigrant

Technically she is not, but practically it takes many generations to be seen as a native.

 

[CricketCartoons]

She was a born Briton. British by birthright. Of course it’s a race issue. Sajid was playing to the xenophobic crowd.

Sir Mo Farah is an immigrant, but he got knighted. The message UK is sending to non natives that it wants them on the positive side, and if they take a wrong turn then all rights are null and void. This is their way of inspiring the ethnic minorities.

 

[Robert]

This is the gist of it. No one want criminals or terrorists in this country, what we want is the same rules to apply to all British citizens regardless of ethnic heritage. We should have confidence in our own judicial system to deal with these renegades, and if we don't then what is the point of it?

Absolutely.

 

[cricketjoshila]

She was a born Briton. British by birthright. Of course it’s a race issue. Sajid was playing to the xenophobic crowd.

Is there a British law that says that being born in Britain gives you citizenship or is it that of your parents are citizens you get citizenship?

Whats the law actually?

 

[IMMY69]

Is there a British law that says that being born in Britain gives you citizenship or is it that of your parents are citizens you get citizenship?

Whats the law actually?

The law is that if you're born in Britain or anywhere else in the world to British citizens, you are British.
If you are born in Britain to people who are not British Citizens than your citizenship is that of your parents.

So this girls baby would also have British citizenship