Shamima Begum loses citizenship removal appeal bid [Post Updated #689]

[shaykh]

My concern is that it would be driven by race and would never be considered as an option otherwise. If you were born in a foreign country fair enough, but when you are born and bred in Britain, then you are British. I know about Letts, but stripping his citizenship is actually a smart move because it would justify stripping hundreds more in the future who, to put it bluntly, don't look like Letts. These type of moves are racially loaded, and if you think they aren't, then you might ask yourself why brown faces like Javid or Patel are always put as the public face to push them through.

I honestly don’t think race is the issue here ...there are some quite revealing studies on converts and militancy...If there were 50 Letts’ around I doubt Britain would want them back either...

And there are some quite real world reasons for that...

Countries who are let’s say authoritarian have no issue repatriating their citizens ...cos they also have no problem punishing based on flimsy evidence...

On of the returnees from Syria who went back to Belgium ended up launching a terror attack in France...now why was he not in jail?...

Frankly it’s actually very difficult to prove what X has done...

‘In order to bring terrorists to justice within a legal framework, prosecutors need to have evidence. However, the collection of evidence from the battlefield in Syria or Iraq, its transfer to other countries, and its use as courtroom evidence constitute a significant problem. In fact, since the situation in Iraq and Syria in the last few years has been far from secure and stable, prosecutors face a number of difficulties in securing evidence: it may not be possible to travel to war-torn and conflict-ridden areas within certain countries to collect evidence, there may not be a judicial cooperation agreement in place with the country where the crimes have been committed, or the legitimate government may not have any effective control over the area where the evidence is located.Also, even when the Internet and social media might be a useful source of evidence, fighters often used noms de guerre, which undermine efforts to legally connect cyber identities and social media posts with specific individuals.’

In short a lot of returnees would be tough to charge...simply going to ISIS territory isn’t a crime, nor is saying on camera that you liked what they did and have no regrets...you need witnesses of crimes etc and co-operation from states where those witnesses are for example...

The other elephant in the room...which can’t be said openly really is states would rather not arrest terrorists...the ‘lone wolf’ phenomena has been disproved by academia...in France for example what linked the terrorists are where they met...prison...the risk of prison being an echo chamber is a serious one especially in academic circles...

I’m just surprised tbh that citizenship is the discussion anyway...what about being British entitles one to return when you have been arrested abroad...let the Kurds do as they please...why do they need to be charged in the UK for crimes committed in Syria and Iraq?...

 

[shaykh]

Its about consistency, you leave your country to go and fight and kill people, in the name of war? unless your fighting for the british army who has strict rules in regards to warfare, you deserve to be treated the same way as a "terrorist".

how many of the 140 were white or born in Britain with sole British nationality, I'm not talking about people who came here in their teens and then were sent back to their country of birth after their sentence? This lady was born in UK so why the talk of being sent to Bangladesh, she is UK's problem, she was groomed in the UK , therefore UK needs to deal with her now. Throw her in prison, throw away the key, im not saying let her come back and roam freely, but she is british, if you can wipe someone's nationality without eve trying them in a UK court, it is a very bad precedent.

Tbf I think it was a faux pas to strip them of their citizenship...much better to just outsource justice to those who are holding them ...

With Letts they exploited the dual thing by trying to say he’s Canadian...the UK btw isn’t the only one exploiting this loophole...but there have also been British born who have lost their citizenship and that poses more of a legal issue...it’s really not about race...if a white guy who has a French mum were caught...the British government would be trying to push him onto France...it’s quite simple really...they don’t want anyone back ...

In my post to Captain I listed some of the reasons why ...

 

[silentkiller187]

Whilst i do agree, the kurds haven't arrested her or tried her for any crimes, in their eyes she isn't a criminal. Shes in a refugee camp, and isn't a citizen of theirs.

Lets flip the coin on its head for a second, if a foreign national came to the UK and committed a crime, they would be tried , serve their time in the UK or potentially even their own country and if not then sent back to their own country for them to deal with.

why the sudden hypocrisy here, she is british, no other nationality, if you strip the nationality where does she go, what if the kurds turn around and say they don't want her? is there going to be a game of pass the parcel until a country lets her in? There's more to it then just ripping up the passport and saying your no longer welcome in the UK.

Whilst i agree she deserves the full force of the law, anyone who goes and joins ISIS or any other freedom fighting cause and kills deserves this, ultimately the country she belongs to needs to take responsibility.

 

[shaykh]

Whilst i do agree, the kurds haven't arrested her or tried her for any crimes, in their eyes she isn't a criminal. Shes in a refugee camp, and isn't a citizen of theirs.

Lets flip the coin on its head for a second, if a foreign national came to the UK and committed a crime, they would be tried , serve their time in the UK or potentially even their own country and if not then sent back to their own country for them to deal with.

why the sudden hypocrisy here, she is british, no other nationality, if you strip the nationality where does she go, what if the kurds turn around and say they don't want her? is there going to be a game of pass the parcel until a country lets her in? There's more to it then just ripping up the passport and saying your no longer welcome in the UK.

Whilst i agree she deserves the full force of the law, anyone who goes and joins ISIS or any other freedom fighting cause and kills deserves this, ultimately the country she belongs to needs to take responsibility.

It’s not really hypocrisy ...countries are taking these citizenship steps based on terrorism...it is only terrorists who are losing their citizenship...and the stuff about fighting for Kurds etc is moot...who you fight for is relevant...cos it determines if you are an enemy or not...

What’s being done is legally contentious at best...its exploiting a loophole...the only countries willing to take their citizens back are those who have let’s say lax legal systems...Egypt for example want their citizens back...and it’s obvious what will happen to them upon their return...

Here it’s different...they will get trials...and there are two possible results...not enough evidence and they are released into society...1 in 9 returnees has attempted to launch a terror attack in Europe...the other possible result is they are charged and sentenced...and then they end up in prison...which is where most radicalisation takes place...neither option is a good one...and they will likely not be in prison long if they are charged...

Countries that don’t execute easily don’t want ISIS guys back in short...a precedent btw was set over a decade ago when a British citizen had his citizenship revoked for fighting for El Shabab ...it’s just more visible now cos of ISIS...and certain feminist fringes emphasising Begum’s issue...

Your point about why not let the Kurds charge them is fair...it’s why stripping citizenship is preferable...you can wash your hands of said individuals...cos the risk with leaving it with the Kurds is those citizens will likely return...

 

[shaykh]

Whilst i do agree, the kurds haven't arrested her or tried her for any crimes, in their eyes she isn't a criminal. Shes in a refugee camp, and isn't a citizen of theirs.

Lets flip the coin on its head for a second, if a foreign national came to the UK and committed a crime, they would be tried , serve their time in the UK or potentially even their own country and if not then sent back to their own country for them to deal with.

why the sudden hypocrisy here, she is british, no other nationality, if you strip the nationality where does she go, what if the kurds turn around and say they don't want her? is there going to be a game of pass the parcel until a country lets her in? There's more to it then just ripping up the passport and saying your no longer welcome in the UK.

Whilst i agree she deserves the full force of the law, anyone who goes and joins ISIS or any other freedom fighting cause and kills deserves this, ultimately the country she belongs to needs to take responsibility.

Begum btw is in a prison camp...she was arrested by the Kurds...she is most certainly not classed as a refugee...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I honestly don’t think race is the issue here ...there are some quite revealing studies on converts and militancy...If there were 50 Letts’ around I doubt Britain would want them back either...

And there are some quite real world reasons for that...

Countries who are let’s say authoritarian have no issue repatriating their citizens ...cos they also have no problem punishing based on flimsy evidence...

On of the returnees from Syria who went back to Belgium ended up launching a terror attack in France...now why was he not in jail?...

Frankly it’s actually very difficult to prove what X has done...

‘In order to bring terrorists to justice within a legal framework, prosecutors need to have evidence. However, the collection of evidence from the battlefield in Syria or Iraq, its transfer to other countries, and its use as courtroom evidence constitute a significant problem. In fact, since the situation in Iraq and Syria in the last few years has been far from secure and stable, prosecutors face a number of difficulties in securing evidence: it may not be possible to travel to war-torn and conflict-ridden areas within certain countries to collect evidence, there may not be a judicial cooperation agreement in place with the country where the crimes have been committed, or the legitimate government may not have any effective control over the area where the evidence is located.Also, even when the Internet and social media might be a useful source of evidence, fighters often used noms de guerre, which undermine efforts to legally connect cyber identities and social media posts with specific individuals.’

In short a lot of returnees would be tough to charge...simply going to ISIS territory isn’t a crime, nor is saying on camera that you liked what they did and have no regrets...you need witnesses of crimes etc and co-operation from states where those witnesses are for example...

The other elephant in the room...which can’t be said openly really is states would rather not arrest terrorists...the ‘lone wolf’ phenomena has been disproved by academia...in France for example what linked the terrorists are where they met...prison...the risk of prison being an echo chamber is a serious one especially in academic circles...

I’m just surprised tbh that citizenship is the discussion anyway...what about being British entitles one to return when you have been arrested abroad...let the Kurds do as they please...why do they need to be charged in the UK for crimes committed in Syria and Iraq?...

I am actually quite happy to let the Kurds do as they please, no problem if we want to wash our hands of them. The only reason it's an issue is because obviously the Kurds don't want to take responsibility for them as they are British citizens. Why do you think Britain is stripping citizenship? Obviously to get out of their duties as laid out by whatever treatise is supposed to be binding in these situations.

Also, I tend towards a skeptical nature so I don't buy the 'no racism involved' reasoning. Sajid Javed, Priti Patel as the brown faces pushing it.....you know that makes you feel uncomfortable, admit it.

 

[shaykh]

I am actually quite happy to let the Kurds do as they please, no problem if we want to wash our hands of them. The only reason it's an issue is because obviously the Kurds don't want to take responsibility for them as they are British citizens. Why do you think Britain is stripping citizenship? Obviously to get out of their duties as laid out by whatever treatise is supposed to be binding in these situations.

Also, I tend towards a skeptical nature so I don't buy the 'no racism involved' reasoning. Sajid Javed, Priti Patel as the brown faces pushing it.....you know that makes you feel uncomfortable, admit it.

Priti and Javed are on the frontline for everything...not just this ...and yes its full on tokenism ...that however doesn’t mean this issue has to do with race...but security...

French academics in particular have done a lot of work on white converts and ISIS cos there are a lot of them...and France is far from interested in welcoming them back...Letts parents were imprisoned for funding terrorism when they sent their son money ...

Your other point I agree with...the Kurds don’t want to be judge, jury or executioner unless they catch Turks ...the Iraqis were more than happy to execute Frenchmen in comparison...

Also I agree with Silentkiller that Britain likely doesn’t want the Kurds to judge ...cos then there is the possibility these guys come back ...so the easier thing to do is remove citizenship ...

I’m not arguing that it isn’t flawed...it’s most certainly self-interested...but there are reasons the likes of Britain, France and Germany are all doing this...and that’s cos guys returning who haven’t been charged haven’t exactly dropped their ideological positions...and all three have been victims of terror attacks...and will do whatever it takes to reduce that risk...

This isn’t to say all those returning are terrorists or want to attack Britain...
You’ll have those who are traumatised by the whole experience...
You’ll have those who realised ISIS wasn’t the Islamist utopia they had hoped for and became disillusioned...
Of course a lot have died too...

The prevailing stat which actually came as a defence was “no more than one in nine foreign fighters returned to perpetrate attacks in the West.’..

That’s quite a large number in real terms...there isn’t the assumption that none of these guys can be rehabilitated ...but there is certainly the belief that some can’t...and do you want these guys in prisons recruiting or walking the streets?...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Priti and Javed are on the frontline for everything...not just this ...and yes its full on tokenism ...that however doesn’t mean this issue has to do with race...but security...

French academics in particular have done a lot of work on white converts and ISIS cos there are a lot of them...and France is far from interested in welcoming them back...Letts parents were imprisoned for funding terrorism when they sent their son money ...

Your other point I agree with...the Kurds don’t want to be judge, jury or executioner unless they catch Turks ...the Iraqis were more than happy to execute Frenchmen in comparison...

Also I agree with Silentkiller that Britain likely doesn’t want the Kurds to judge ...cos then there is the possibility these guys come back ...so the easier thing to do is remove citizenship ...

I’m not arguing that it isn’t flawed...it’s most certainly self-interested...but there are reasons the likes of Britain, France and Germany are all doing this...and that’s cos guys returning who haven’t been charged haven’t exactly dropped their ideological positions...and all three have been victims of terror attacks...and will do whatever it takes to reduce that risk...

This isn’t to say all those returning are terrorists or want to attack Britain...
You’ll have those who are traumatised by the whole experience...
You’ll have those who realised ISIS wasn’t the Islamist utopia they had hoped for and became disillusioned...
Of course a lot have died too...

The prevailing stat which actually came as a defence was “no more than one in nine foreign fighters returned to perpetrate attacks in the West.’..

That’s quite a large number in real terms...there isn’t the assumption that none of these guys can be rehabilitated ...but there is certainly the belief that some can’t...and do you want these guys in prisons recruiting or walking the streets?...

I would want them to face trial and be convicted if found guilty. If not, then we take our chances like with every other defendant who goes through the process. Either you believe in British justice system or you don't. My gut tells me the real reason Shamima is being stripped of her citizenship is because the govt is afraid of the backlash if she arrives back and is judged not guilty. The tabloids would go into a frenzy whipping up the public sentiment, and the govt doesn't want to deal with that.

If our justice system can't be relied on in these situations then maybe it is flawed to begin with.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Priti and Javed are on the frontline for everything...not just this ...and yes its full on tokenism ...that however doesn’t mean this issue has to do with race...but security...

French academics in particular have done a lot of work on white converts and ISIS cos there are a lot of them...and France is far from interested in welcoming them back...Letts parents were imprisoned for funding terrorism when they sent their son money ...

Your other point I agree with...the Kurds don’t want to be judge, jury or executioner unless they catch Turks ...the Iraqis were more than happy to execute Frenchmen in comparison...

Also I agree with Silentkiller that Britain likely doesn’t want the Kurds to judge ...cos then there is the possibility these guys come back ...so the easier thing to do is remove citizenship ...

I’m not arguing that it isn’t flawed...it’s most certainly self-interested...but there are reasons the likes of Britain, France and Germany are all doing this...and that’s cos guys returning who haven’t been charged haven’t exactly dropped their ideological positions...and all three have been victims of terror attacks...and will do whatever it takes to reduce that risk...

This isn’t to say all those returning are terrorists or want to attack Britain...
You’ll have those who are traumatised by the whole experience...
You’ll have those who realised ISIS wasn’t the Islamist utopia they had hoped for and became disillusioned...
Of course a lot have died too...

The prevailing stat which actually came as a defence was “no more than one in nine foreign fighters returned to perpetrate attacks in the West.’..

That’s quite a large number in real terms...there isn’t the assumption that none of these guys can be rehabilitated ...but there is certainly the belief that some can’t...and do you want these guys in prisons recruiting or walking the streets?...

Security? She will be in prison for years if found guilty and if not guilty , there is nothing to worry about.

The issue is of a Brit going to fight with foriegn forces possibly involving killing others.

You ignored my point so I ask again.

Why are British Jews able to join the Israeli forces and then return with no issue? Israel is an occupying power which is being investigated for war crimes. So a Jew goes to Israel, kills an innocent Palestinian, returns back to the UK and gets applauded, why?

 

[Saj]

There is "overwhelming evidence" Shamima Begum was a victim of trafficking when she left the UK, a court has heard.

Ms Begum was 15 when she left east London with two other schoolgirls to join Islamic State in Syria in February 2015.

In 2019 she was found nine months pregnant in a Syrian refugee camp, and shortly after her British citizenship was revoked by then home secretary Sajid Javid over national security concerns.

In February this year, the Supreme Court ruled she could not return to the UK to pursue an appeal against the removal of her citizenship

Now 21, Ms Begum is challenging the Home Office's decision and has asked a specialist tribunal to consider whether she was a victim of trafficking when she travelled to Syria.

Her lawyers told the Special Immigration Appeals Commission (SIAC) at a hearing on Friday that the government had a legal duty to investigate whether she was a trafficking victim when her citizenship was removed.

Ms Begum's legal team said the Home Office failed to consider whether she was a "child trafficked to, and remaining in, Syria for the purposes of sexual exploitation and forced marriage", despite the counter-terrorism unit having "suspicions of coercion and control" at the time she left the UK.

Ms Begum also wants to challenge her citizenship removal on the basis that it made her "de facto stateless" and the decision was procedurally unfair.

Lawyer Samantha Knights told the court the 21-year-old was currently held in al Roj camp in northern Syria, run by Syrian Democrat Forces, where "physical violence is common and psychological trauma is endemic".

She added that Ms Begum was "living in a situation of serious and present danger" and asked SIAC to consider her proposed new grounds of appeal in November.

Representing the Home Office, David Blundell said she should not be allowed to amend her grounds again and it was "significant that the allegation" is not that she was trafficked but that she may have been.

He said her argument was "entirely speculative", adding that Ms Begum had never stated she had been trafficked, "despite having given numerous media interviews and provided instructions to her solicitors on a number of matters".

Mr Blundell added: "Although Ms Begum focuses on the fact that she left at 15, she ignores the fact that she remained in Isil (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) territory in Syria for a considerable period of time as an adult, only leaving when the so-called caliphate fell."

The Home Office also argues that Ms Begum's case should be put on hold until a separate case before SIAC, which is due to be heard next March, has concluded.

https://news.sky.com/story/shamima-...e-was-trafficking-victim-court-hears-12335862

 

[OMB]

Shamima Begum says ‘sorry’ to Manchester bombing victims in GMB interview

Begum denied being directly involved in preparations for terrorist activity

Shamima Begum has asked the British people for forgiveness, saying in a TV interview this morning (15 September) that the so-called Islamic State’s (Isis) killing of innocent people is “unjustifiable”.

The 22-year-old from east London has had her British citizenship revoked by the Home Office on national security grounds, and is currently living in a camp in Syria.

She left the UK at the age of 15 as one of three schoolgirls who, in 2015, travelled together to Syria to join Isis. The British government has said that she will not be allowed to return to the UK.

Begum told ITV’s Good Morning Britain in a live interview: “I know it’s very hard for the British people to try and forgive me because they have lived in fear of Isis and lost loved ones because of Isis, but I also have lived in fear of Isis and I also lost loved ones because of Isis, so I can sympathise with them in that way.

“I know it is very hard for them to forgive me but I say from the bottom of my heart that I am so sorry if I ever offended anyone by coming here, if I ever offended anyone by the things I said.”

Begum – who appeared to distance herself from her former life in Isis – said she came to Syria expecting simply to get married, have children and “live a pure, Islamic life”.

She appeared in the interview wearing a Nike baseball cap, grey vest, her hair loose and painted nails.

Begum said: “The reason I came to Syria was not for violent reasons ... At the time I did not know it (Isis) was a death cult, I thought it was an Islamic community I was joining.

“I was being fed a lot of information on the internet by people.”

She said she thought she was “groomed and taken advantage of and manipulated into” travelling to Syria.

Begum also denied being directly involved in terrorist activity.

It comes after The Daily Telegraph reported that Begum was an “enforcer” in Isis’ “morality police”, and tried to recruit other young women to join the group.

An anti-Isis activist told The Independent that there are separate allegations of Begum stitching suicide bombers into explosive vests so they “could not be removed without detonating”.

Begum told the presenters of GMB: “I am willing to go to court and face the people who made these claims and refute these claims, because I know I did nothing in IS but be a mother and a wife.

“These claims are being made to make me look worse because the government do not have anything on me.

“There is no evidence because nothing ever happened.”

She added: “I would rather die than go back to IS.”

Begum also apologised to anyone who has been affected by Isis and the terror group's actions.

She said: “Of course I am completely sorry for anyone that has been affected by Isis.

“In no way do I agree with what they did – I don’t – I’m not trying to justify what they did, it’s not justifiable to kill innocent people in the name of religion.”

Begum said she regretted her actions and apologised for the comments she previously made about the Manchester Arena bombing.

In 2017, 22 victims died and more than 1,000 were injured after an attacker detonated a bomb at a concert in Manchester Arena.

After she was found by a BBC journalist in a camp in Syria in 2019, she claimed – when asked about the Manchester bombing – that it was wrong to kill innocent people, but that Isis considered it justified as retaliation for coalition bombing of Isis-held areas.

In that interview, she had also said that she did not regret joining Isis.

But now, in the new interview, she said: “I do not believe that one evil justifies another evil. I don’t think that women and children should be killed for other people’s motives and for other people's agendas.”

She added: “I did not know that people were killed, I did not know that women and children were hurt because of it.”

Health Secretary Sajid Javid hit back at Begum’s claims that she played no part in Isis terrorism.

Earlier, Begum said she was “pretty sure he [Javid] would change his mind about my citizenship” if the pair met face to face.

Mr Javid said the decision to revoke her citizenship is “absolutely right, but also legally correct and the right one to protect the British people.”

Referring to his decision while home secretary to strip her of her citizenship, he said: “I won’t go into details of the case, but what I will say is that you certainly haven’t seen what I saw.”

He added: “If you did know what I knew, because you are sensible, responsible people, you would have made exactly the same decision – of that I have no doubt.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shamima-begum-interview-gmb-b1920404.html

 

[Robert]

She has apologised. Let her back in and if she is suspected of a crime against the state, try her.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

She has apologised. Let her back in and if she is suspected of a crime against the state, try her.

She should be tried by the Iraqis/Syrians.

It's highly unlikely that she has been deradicalised to such an extent that she is now wearing vests and baseball caps instead of burkas. Her interviews show that she is being coached - you can see the change in her statements over time and she very obviously isn't bright enough to make those changes herself.

At the rate this is going she will be popping up with an onlyfans account to demonstrate the extent of her change.

It's a sad story but whats just as sad is the misery that ISIS have caused others.

 

[Robert]

She should be tried by the Iraqis/Syrians.

It's highly unlikely that she has been deradicalised to such an extent that she is now wearing vests and baseball caps instead of burkas. Her interviews show that she is being coached - you can see the change in her statements over time and she very obviously isn't bright enough to make those changes herself.

At the rate this is going she will be popping up with an onlyfans account to demonstrate the extent of her change.

It's a sad story but whats just as sad is the misery that ISIS have caused others.

Coached by whom, do you think?

 

[PakLFC]

She should not be allowed back in the UK no matter what she says.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Coached by whom, do you think?

Lawyers, NGO's, Human rights organisations.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

ISIS wrecked havoc in both Syria & Iraq. She has to face the Iraqi & Syrian judiciary for her involvement with the ISIS.

 

[Robert]

Lawyers, NGO's, Human rights organisations.

Oh, I thought you meant some Islamist terror group. “Human rights organisations” sound like good guys to me. Perhaps she has fallen in with a good crowd.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Oh, I thought you meant some Islamist terror group. “Human rights organisations” sound like good guys to me. Perhaps she has fallen in with a good crowd.

Human rights groups ( a blanket term of course) are good guys as you describe but they are woefully inept and naive when it comes to issues of religious terror.

 

[mazkhan]

She should not be allowed back in the UK no matter what she says.

She was born in the United Kingdom

She should never of have been made stateless by egghead javid.

If she has committed terrorism get her in the UK court or even a un international tribunal and put her on trial.

If the west had no problem abducting people and sending them to cia run torture camps and gitmo why is there such an issue with this girl.

She is not syrian or Bangladeshi she is British

Get her back and put her on trial if there is so much proof that she is a dangerous individual who has committed crimes then trial and imprisonment is a fair option.

 

[OMB]

What does her Family have to say in all this?

 

[faraz39]

White girl gets groomed by brown gangs and she is given all sympathy and support.

Brown Muslim girl gets groomed by ISIS and she is the villain.

The self hate in some of you is beyond belief.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

She should be tried by the Iraqis/Syrians.

It's highly unlikely that she has been deradicalised to such an extent that she is now wearing vests and baseball caps instead of burkas. Her interviews show that she is being coached - you can see the change in her statements over time and she very obviously isn't bright enough to make those changes herself.

At the rate this is going she will be popping up with an onlyfans account to demonstrate the extent of her change.

It's a sad story but whats just as sad is the misery that ISIS have caused others.

You've gone too far with the penultimate line .. but I get the general sentiment

 

[DeadlyVenom]

White girl gets groomed by brown gangs and she is given all sympathy and support.

Brown Muslim girl gets groomed by ISIS and she is the villain.

The self hate in some of you is beyond belief.

This is a false equivalence.

Those white girls were groomed and sexually abused, raped by old men. They committed no crimed.

Shamima joined a terrorist gang that murdered, raped and killed people. When she was asked about the sexual slavery that Yazidi women were subjected to she didnt seem to care?

Do you see the difference between the two.

 

[Local.Dada]

She has apologised. Let her back in and if she is suspected of a crime against the state, try her.

Apologized for joining one of the most brutal terrorist organizations in the world?

Wish everyone was this accepting for much smaller crimes than being a terrorist.

 

[James]

The British government seem to be worried about a real life “Homeland” scenario coming to fruition, wherein Shamima Begum could still be under the influence of ISIS & begging to come back so she can be planted as a sleeper agent in preparation for a terrorist attack.

To me this seems a bit farfetched to say the least (although not impossible in fact), but I do agree that she is being coached, and her latest appearance felt highly inauthentic.

 

[Robert]

This is a false equivalence.

Those white girls were groomed and sexually abused, raped by old men. They committed no crimed.

Shamima joined a terrorist gang that murdered, raped and killed people. When she was asked about the sexual slavery that Yazidi women were subjected to she didnt seem to care?

Do you see the difference between the two.

What crime do you allege Begum committed? Treason?

 

[James]

What crime do you allege Begum committed? Treason?

In terms of our own laws, being a member of a terrorist (proscribed) organisation is a serious crime.

 

[Robert]

In terms of our own laws, being a member of a terrorist (proscribed) organisation is a serious crime.

Then she should be tried for that alleged offence and punished if found guilty.

 

[PakLFC]

She was born in the United Kingdom

She should never of have been made stateless by egghead javid.

If she has committed terrorism get her in the UK court or even a un international tribunal and put her on trial.

If the west had no problem abducting people and sending them to cia run torture camps and gitmo why is there such an issue with this girl.

She is not syrian or Bangladeshi she is British

Get her back and put her on trial if there is so much proof that she is a dangerous individual who has committed crimes then trial and imprisonment is a fair option.

She is a terrorist lover that is what she is. A danger to the country encouraging violence against other people. A leopard never changes it's spots moreover how do we know some terrorist organisation is not behind her attempts to come back home? After her nationality was revoked she is no longer British anymore but a stateless person. It is an issue because she is a danger to innocent British people and it is not these people who send anyone to torture camps you are on about.

Yeah bring her back then take her to trial after she has killed herself and hundreds of innocents in some suicide attack. No thanks! If people like you love her type so much then feel free to go to her in Syria or some other Arab violent hell hole on earth.

 

[mazkhan]

She is a terrorist lover that is what she is. A danger to the country encouraging violence against other people. A leopard never changes it's spots moreover how do we know some terrorist organisation is not behind her attempts to come back home? After her nationality was revoked she is no longer British anymore but a stateless person. It is an issue because she is a danger to innocent British people and it is not these people who send anyone to torture camps you are on about.

Yeah bring her back then take her to trial after she has killed herself and hundreds of innocents in some suicide attack. No thanks! If people like you love her type so much then feel free to go to her in Syria or some other Arab violent hell hole on earth.

I never said she wasn't involved with a terrorist organisation and If she is guilty she should rot in prison .

What I have a problem with is how a British born person can be stripped.of their citizenship just because they are Muslim or brown because that effects you and me its double standards.

She's not the responsibility of Syria, kurds or Bangladesh they all have told the UK to take their criminals back, someway uk deports other countries criminals on flights back to their country .

Maajid nawaz was also involved with an extremist organisation yet he changed his ways , so miss begum could do the same.
And besides she was 15 and groomed online so was a child you can't have one rule for brown girls and another for white girls roaming streets running away from home and wanting free drugs pizzas alcohol in return for selling their bodies by pimps in the night time economy drug dealers taxi drivers etc

 

[PakLFC]

I never said she wasn't involved with a terrorist organisation and If she is guilty she should rot in prison .

What I have a problem with is how a British born person can be stripped.of their citizenship just because they are Muslim or brown because that effects you and me its double standards.

She's not the responsibility of Syria, kurds or Bangladesh they all have told the UK to take their criminals back, someway uk deports other countries criminals on flights back to their country .

Maajid nawaz was also involved with an extremist organisation yet he changed his ways , so miss begum could do the same.
And besides she was 15 and groomed online so was a child you can't have one rule for brown girls and another for white girls roaming streets running away from home and wanting free drugs pizzas alcohol in return for selling their bodies by pimps in the night time economy drug dealers taxi drivers etc

Any person irrespective of their faith involved in terrorism should de disallowed from entering their home country once they have left for some Arab warzone. This could be a "jihadi Jane" or some Christian terrorist fighting any war abroad. This does not effect those who do not have a terrorist mindset.

UK is right to deport illegal people as well as stopping terrorists back in. It is not stopping other countries from forming such rules as well. She should have thought of the consequences before leaving...thing is no one will trust this lady from blowing herself up if she is allowed to return no matter where she is born. Obviously the government decides on such matters, just because one country is removed from the red list does not mean others are safe too. This young lady has been brainwashed by terrorists for years even having their babies, the bottom line is I just don't trust her.

Just imagine the consequences if she is allowed to return then ends up killing innocent people before turning the gun on herself? There is no comparison between terrorists and junkies even prostitutes...it's not even worthy of being discussed. There will rightfully be a massive uproar if this terror lover was allowed back in to the country no matter where she was born. Now let her enjoy the great lifestyle of Syria or any Arab war zone. So what if she was 15?. There are many off that age online who never become terrorists.

 

[faraz39]

This is a false equivalence.

Those white girls were groomed and sexually abused, raped by old men. They committed no crimed.

Shamima joined a terrorist gang that murdered, raped and killed people. When she was asked about the sexual slavery that Yazidi women were subjected to she didnt seem to care?

Do you see the difference between the two.

So white girls are brainwashed and groomed and brown girls make their own decisions???

The white girls were involved with drug and criminal gangs so it wasn't office guys doing 9-5.

Shamima and the other girls were also brainwashed online by ISIS recruiters just like the white girls were brainwashed by the criminal gangs. I see absolutely no difference between the two groups except the brown girls are treated worse because well they are brown.

 

[faraz39]

Any person irrespective of their faith involved in terrorism should de disallowed from entering their home country once they have left for some Arab warzone. This could be a "jihadi Jane" or some Christian terrorist fighting any war abroad. This does not effect those who do not have a terrorist mindset.

UK is right to deport illegal people as well as stopping terrorists back in. It is not stopping other countries from forming such rules as well. She should have thought of the consequences before leaving...thing is no one will trust this lady from blowing herself up if she is allowed to return no matter where she is born. Obviously the government decides on such matters, just because one country is removed from the red list does not mean others are safe too. This young lady has been brainwashed by terrorists for years even having their babies, the bottom line is I just don't trust her.

Just imagine the consequences if she is allowed to return then ends up killing innocent people before turning the gun on herself? There is no comparison between terrorists and junkies even prostitutes...it's not even worthy of being discussed. There will rightfully be a massive uproar if this terror lover was allowed back in to the country no matter where she was born. Now let her enjoy the great lifestyle of Syria or any Arab war zone. So what if she was 15?. There are many off that age online who never become terrorists.

lol at Shamima killing people. Can we also assume the white girls involved and groomed by the criminal gangs were also guilty simply by association? Oh right they were just innocent victims even though they were involved with criminal gangs and were taken advantage of.

But if a brown Muslim girls does it, she's a terrorist. Reminds me of the white supremacists in the US who shriek to treat young black boys as adults but never the same for young white boys.

 

[PakLFC]

lol at Shamima killing people. Can we also assume the white girls involved and groomed by the criminal gangs were also guilty simply by association? Oh right they were just innocent victims even though they were involved with criminal gangs and were taken advantage of.

But if a brown Muslim girls does it, she's a terrorist. Reminds me of the white supremacists in the US who shriek to treat young black boys as adults but never the same for young white boys.

Why don't people like you fail to understand that Shamima was involved with ISIS for a long time. Being groomed by anyone does not make them a terror threat even though obviously this is a crime as well. There is nothing but or if about it, she is a terrorist lover having spent years with the ISI. This has nothing to do with race or anything like that at all. If a white girl did what Shamima did she should suffer the same penalty. I don't know why people like you have this great love for a terrorist!!?

 

[Napa]

She has apologised. Let her back in and if she is suspected of a crime against the state, try her.

You do understand that she believes it is okay to lie to the enemy?

 

[Robert]

You do understand that she believes it is okay to lie to the enemy?

She was brainwashed. We can deprogramme her.

Criminals lie to the police. We have courts to determine the truth. Then we try to reform the criminals into responsible citizens.

 

[James]

She was brainwashed. We can deprogramme her.

Criminals lie to the police. We have courts to determine the truth. Then we try to reform the criminals into responsible citizens.

Not everybody is truly reformable.

Many are, some aren’t.

 

[Napa]

Not everybody is truly reformable.

Many are, some aren’t.

If she believes she is being persecuted and coerced to deny her belief, then Islam allows her to dissimulate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If she believes she is being persecuted and coerced to deny her belief, then Islam allows her to dissimulate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya

It's pretty standard practice to lie to your enemy, that's why we have secret services and propaganda machines. It's not exclusive to Islam or hindutva or westerners for that matter.

But pulling back from the rampant religious partisanship in this discussion I will agree that she might be lying. Bu then that's why we have courts to determine these issues. It's a matter of whether we believe in our judicial system or not. If we don't then maybe it's not that good after all.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If she believes she is being persecuted and coerced to deny her belief, then Islam allows her to dissimulate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya

Taqqiya is a random thing that right wing bigots like to bring up.

If you knew anything about Islam(beyond copy pasta wiki articles) you would think twice about linking an article about a beliet system common in Shia Islam.

For reference Shia Islam is something Shamima and her ilk are violently against.

For reference in Islam the preservation of life comes first - a muslim at the point of starvation is allowed to eat pork/drink alcohol to remain alive.

'Taqqiya' is a similar concept. In times of oppression it is designed to be a relief for the believer - If your life in danger for your belief you can renounce it publicly but it should be a comfort that God knows your true self and what is in your heart.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

You do understand that she believes it is okay to lie to the enemy?

Don't you believe the same?

Would you be happy for captured Indian troops to openly give information to who ever captures them?

 

[Napa]

It's pretty standard practice to lie to your enemy, that's why we have secret services and propaganda machines. It's not exclusive to Islam or hindutva or westerners for that matter.

But pulling back from the rampant religious partisanship in this discussion I will agree that she might be lying. Bu then that's why we have courts to determine these issues. It's a matter of whether we believe in our judicial system or not. If we don't then maybe it's not that good after all.

Given that she left home at age 15 to join the ISIS and later joined their morality police, I would think that religion has an above average influence on her thinking.

 

[Napa]

Taqqiya is a random thing that right wing bigots like to bring up.

It is factual.

If you knew anything about Islam(beyond copy pasta wiki articles) you would think twice about linking an article about a beliet system common in Shia Islam.

For reference Shia Islam is something Shamima and her ilk are violently against.

That illogical. There are many things in Islam which Shias believe that Sunnis also abide by. And I know a lot about Islam.

For reference in Islam the preservation of life comes first - a muslim at the point of starvation is allowed to eat pork/drink alcohol to remain alive.

'Taqqiya' is a similar concept. In times of oppression it is designed to be a relief for the believer - If your life in danger for your belief you can renounce it publicly but it should be a comfort that God knows your true self and what is in your heart.

Yes, that is what I also said. Specifically I wrote "If she believes she is being persecuted and coerced to deny her belief, then Islam allows her to dissimulate."

Don't you believe the same?

Would you be happy for captured Indian troops to openly give information to who ever captures them?

India is a signatory to the Geneva Convention. So an Indian soldier is responsible for giving his name and rank to his captors and nothing more. His captors are responsible for his well being.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Your understanding about taqqiya is not factual. Please don't pretend it is. It is the same trope that the far right use.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ishmaeldaro/taqiyya-explained

Also you are happy to have your own country men lie but when someone of muslim background does it you insinuate it has sinister undertones.

I suggest that you read up on the concept of taqqiya from non right wing sources if you genuinley want to understand.

If not then continue with your bigotry sir.

 

[Napa]

Your understanding about taqqiya is not factual. Please don't pretend it is. It is the same trope that the far right use.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ishmaeldaro/taqiyya-explained

Also you are happy to have your own country men lie but when someone of muslim background does it you insinuate it has sinister undertones.

I suggest that you read up on the concept of taqqiya from non right wing sources if you genuinley want to understand.

If not then continue with your bigotry sir.

I like to have an accurate understanding of the world. If you don't like my understanding and think I am a bigot, that is your choice but I find your accusation unconvincing.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

So white girls are brainwashed and groomed and brown girls make their own decisions???

The white girls were involved with drug and criminal gangs so it wasn't office guys doing 9-5.

Shamima and the other girls were also brainwashed online by ISIS recruiters just like the white girls were brainwashed by the criminal gangs. I see absolutely no difference between the two groups except the brown girls are treated worse because well they are brown.

I genuinley think there is a clear difference between the two( i mean you are equating drug dealing with terrorism) but I have no interest in discussing or debating it.

These are highly emotive topics and its an emotionally charged topic. Perhaps I am biased because I found the treatment of the white victims so harrowing and the actions that ISIS took in the name of my religion genuinley caused me pain.

So yeah I have no interest in debating the specifics of the cases in an attempt to find a comparison.

I'll lose no sleep over Shamima or the white kid who went to Syria losing their citizenship.

I do however respect your comments and strong opinions on this issue. I hope that you channel your frustrations into writing to your MP/Newspapers or arranging protests to bring her back.

 

[faraz39]

I genuinley think there is a clear difference between the two( i mean you are equating drug dealing with terrorism) but I have no interest in discussing or debating it.

These are highly emotive topics and its an emotionally charged topic. Perhaps I am biased because I found the treatment of the white victims so harrowing and the actions that ISIS took in the name of my religion genuinley caused me pain.

So yeah I have no interest in debating the specifics of the cases in an attempt to find a comparison.

I'll lose no sleep over Shamima or the white kid who went to Syria losing their citizenship.

I do however respect your comments and strong opinions on this issue. I hope that you channel your frustrations into writing to your MP/Newspapers or arranging protests to bring her back.

I'm not even British but it's interesting to note people's double standards when it comes to white girls vs brown Muslim girls. One is considered a victim with no agency of her own to make decisions but the other is a villain who deserves to be cast aside and never let back in.

 

[Napa]

I'm not even British but it's interesting to note people's double standards when it comes to white girls vs brown Muslim girls. One is considered a victim with no agency of her own to make decisions but the other is a villain who deserves to be cast aside and never let back in.

Your equating Shamina with the "white girls" is not convincing. Do they pose the same threat to society?

Shamina joined the ISIS and has in the past has said the Manchester bombing was justified. In the future it is possible that she will aid domestic terrorist attacks if she is let back into the UK. What similar threat to society do these "white girls" pose?

 

[Robert]

I'm not even British but it's interesting to note people's double standards when it comes to white girls vs brown Muslim girls. One is considered a victim with no agency of her own to make decisions but the other is a villain who deserves to be cast aside and never let back in.

There is no equivalence, and therefore no double standard. I don’t know why this horrible comparison is being drawn. Thousands of underage white girls were groomed and raped by paedophile gangs in a dozen Northern English cities. Begun was groomed on-line and I suspect she now has Stockholm Syndrome as a result of her ISIL experiences.

 

[Robert]

Not everybody is truly reformable.

Many are, some aren’t.

But we try to reform everybody anyway. That is the mark of a just and decent society.

 

[Robert]

Your understanding about taqqiya is not factual. Please don't pretend it is. It is the same trope that the far right use.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ishmaeldaro/taqiyya-explained

Also you are happy to have your own country men lie but when someone of muslim background does it you insinuate it has sinister undertones.

I suggest that you read up on the concept of taqqiya from non right wing sources if you genuinley want to understand.

Thanks for this interesting and informative post [MENTION=51465]DeadlyVenom[/MENTION]

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Let her rot in the Syrian jail.

This is TOO big an issue to test reforms.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Your equating Shamina with the "white girls" is not convincing. Do they pose the same threat to society?

Shamina joined the ISIS and has in the past has said the Manchester bombing was justified. In the future it is possible that she will aid domestic terrorist attacks if she is let back into the UK. What similar threat to society do these "white girls" pose?

How did you manage a psychoanalysis behind your keyboard? She can be tracked and monitored, the systems are available.

15 is a child, many children are brainwashed into to many wrongs. She was groomed like other girls.

As pointed out she is British, speaks with a British accent unlike many from India or Pak living abroad who dont sound native to the land. A nation must help rehabilitate children who have been groomed.

Modi was in the RSS but was made PM.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

She should be allowed back to Britain and then face a trial. Let the judicial process play out.

 

[Josh]

She should be allowed back to Britain and then face a trial. Let the judicial process play out.

The crime was done in Syria and she should be tried there. Once convicted and served her sentence fully, only then she should be allowed back.

 

[rhony]

She should be allowed back to Britain and then face a trial. Let the judicial process play out.

Western jails are breeding grounds for radical islam. She will be a hero there having fought the so called holy war. Instead, she should just chill in Syria until she learns her lessons in 50 to 60 years. I wanted her kids to be sent to UK as they dont deserve to be punished for their parents' betrayal. But unfortunately those innocent kids died and the case should be closed with Shamima as a lesson for future generations. Her pleas should be publicized every few years to remind wannabe terrorists how horrible their lives will be if they choose to be traitors. It's a great opportunity with zero expense to the government to deradicalize kids.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Western jails are breeding grounds for radical islam. She will be a hero there having fought the so called holy war. Instead, she should just chill in Syria until she learns her lessons in 50 to 60 years. I wanted her kids to be sent to UK as they dont deserve to be punished for their parents' betrayal. But unfortunately those innocent kids died and the case should be closed with Shamima as a lesson for future generations. Her pleas should be publicized every few years to remind wannabe terrorists how horrible their lives will be if they choose to be traitors. It's a great opportunity with zero expense to the government to deradicalize kids.

In that case western jails are the problem and need to be reformed. That is the problem with our stance here, what we are really saying is our justice system and laws are too weak to deal with this case and let's palm her off somewhere else.

What would you prefer, Sharia law?

 

[mastimasti]

In that case western jails are the problem and need to be reformed. That is the problem with our stance here, what we are really saying is our justice system and laws are too weak to deal with this case and let's palm her off somewhere else.

What would you prefer, Sharia law?

Weirdly enough, Panorama did a whole episode on so called Islamic radicalisation in English jails (maybe Welsh, but it did not cover Scotland and NI I'm sure) and before the programme started, they read out a statement from Her Majesty's Prison Service which actively stated that Islamic radicalisation in prisons was a minority issue and not on a large enough scale. The Panorama episode acknowledges this as factual...and then continues to peddle the usual myths for the following 29 minutes.

 

[mastimasti]

The crime was done in Syria and she should be tried there. Once convicted and served her sentence fully, only then she should be allowed back.

what crimes did she commit?

 

[Robert]

Western jails are breeding grounds for radical islam. She will be a hero there having fought the so called holy war. Instead, she should just chill in Syria until she learns her lessons in 50 to 60 years. I wanted her kids to be sent to UK as they dont deserve to be punished for their parents' betrayal. But unfortunately those innocent kids died and the case should be closed with Shamima as a lesson for future generations. Her pleas should be publicized every few years to remind wannabe terrorists how horrible their lives will be if they choose to be traitors. It's a great opportunity with zero expense to the government to deradicalize kids.

All UK jails have indentured imams to counter radicalisation in addition to their regular spiritual duties.

I never heard of that in a female jail though. Begum might be put in the Vulnerable Prisoner wing to avoid being abused by other prisoners.

 

[rhony]

In that case western jails are the problem and need to be reformed. That is the problem with our stance here, what we are really saying is our justice system and laws are too weak to deal with this case and let's palm her off somewhere else.

What would you prefer, Sharia law?

There is a need to set a precedence here. The radicalized youth in prisons aren't committing crimes in the prison. Just because they pray and preach all day doesn't warrant any punishment according to law. The after effects are seen once they are out of prison and it's too late by then. I firmly stand with the UK government here. There is no better example than a young girl losing her way. Instead of the usual sympathy that's peddled by the liberal establishments, it's time to show some spine and disown people that act as enemy of the state. Let Bangladesh claim her which they won't or let her cool her heels off in Syria writing memoirs with regrets.

 

[rhony]

All UK jails have indentured imams to counter radicalisation in addition to their regular spiritual duties.

I never heard of that in a female jail though. Begum might be put in the Vulnerable Prisoner wing to avoid being abused by other prisoners.

That's the issue I have. You are thinking about handling this terrorist with kid gloves once she is in UK. Yes, there are Imams that work with prisoners in the US as well to deradicalize the prisoners and I've read cases of true reform. I'd reserve those benefits for people that haven't committed a terrorist act yet.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There is a need to set a precedence here. The radicalized youth in prisons aren't committing crimes in the prison. Just because they pray and preach all day doesn't warrant any punishment according to law. The after effects are seen once they are out of prison and it's too late by then. I firmly stand with the UK government here. There is no better example than a young girl losing her way. Instead of the usual sympathy that's peddled by the liberal establishments, it's time to show some spine and disown people that act as enemy of the state. Let Bangladesh claim her which they won't or let her cool her heels off in Syria writing memoirs with regrets.

Yes I think that's fine from the standpoint of the layman, your average Johnny on the street. But I think the govt itself should be capable of trusting their own justice system to deal with a defendant pleading their case, especially someone who was 15 when she fled to Syria.

As it happens I am suspicious of her motives myself, not sure I buy her revised story, but I think we should have some confidence in our courts to establish the truth.

 

[rhony]

Yes I think that's fine from the standpoint of the layman, your average Johnny on the street. But I think the govt itself should be capable of trusting their own justice system to deal with a defendant pleading their case, especially someone who was 15 when she fled to Syria.

As it happens I am suspicious of her motives myself, not sure I buy her revised story, but I think we should have some confidence in our courts to establish the truth.

Her age is immaterial. Minors can be punished as adults depending on the crime. This was the biggest crime someone can commit - Joining a murderous horde. There is no evidence that she didn't commit any crimes there. She was mature enough to make those decisions back then and should be bold enough to face the consequences now.

 

[Robert]

Her age is immaterial. Minors can be punished as adults depending on the crime. This was the biggest crime someone can commit - Joining a murderous horde. There is no evidence that she didn't commit any crimes there. She was mature enough to make those decisions back then and should be bold enough to face the consequences now.

There’s no evidence for herds of pink unicorns living on Neptune either. So I assume there are none, until proof is presented.

We try people if there is evidence that they committed a crime and there is reasonable possibility of conviction. We don’t try them for what we don’t know they haven’t done.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Her age is immaterial. Minors can be punished as adults depending on the crime. This was the biggest crime someone can commit - Joining a murderous horde. There is no evidence that she didn't commit any crimes there. She was mature enough to make those decisions back then and should be bold enough to face the consequences now.

Minors can only be punished as adults if they get their day in court. If you are washing your hands of responsibility then I'm not sure why we are even having a discussion about legal rights or procedures. She could be have her arms and legs cut off and kept alive in a box for all it matters.

 

[rhony]

There’s no evidence for herds of pink unicorns living on Neptune either. So I assume there are none, until proof is presented.

We try people if there is evidence that they committed a crime and there is reasonable possibility of conviction. We don’t try them for what we don’t know they haven’t done.

But we already know she committed a crime. Running away to Syria to join a terrorist organization. Now she is facing the consequences.

 

[rhony]

Minors can only be punished as adults if they get their day in court. If you are washing your hands of responsibility then I'm not sure why we are even having a discussion about legal rights or procedures. She could be have her arms and legs cut off and kept alive in a box for all it matters.

She's not a minor anymore so it's a moot point now. Her best possible solution is to plan a long stay with the Kurds.

 

[Stewie]

Her case is indeed one of the worst ones. She is a born British citizen. They need to extradite her, put her on trial and let her do her time in a UK jail.
They are completely washing their hands off her as if she doesn’t exist. Most countries don’t do that!

 

[Local.Dada]

If I was a Muslim parent living in the UK,I wouldn’t want Shamima ever to return to the Uk. She is the perfect living example to show young kids the consequences of getting involved with the wrong crowd.

I know we see a lot of wannabe lawyers expert in immigration, law and British constitution but it’s simple sometimes it’s ok to skirt around the rules a little (If actually not allowing back an isis terrorist in to your country is actually considered that) for the greater good.

Otherwise every “innocent” kid is going to think they can go on an adventurer to be some kind of a warrior and then say sorry and come back once they see the difference between living in UK and under groups like ISIS and Taliban.

Let her be stuck there for the benefit of young British Muslims

 

[Stewie]

If I was a Muslim parent living in the UK,I wouldn’t want Shamima ever to return to the Uk. She is the perfect living example to show young kids the consequences of getting involved with the wrong crowd.

I know we see a lot of wannabe lawyers expert in immigration, law and British constitution but it’s simple sometimes it’s ok to skirt around the rules a little (If actually not allowing back an isis terrorist in to your country is actually considered that) for the greater good.

Otherwise every “innocent” kid is going to think they can go on an adventurer to be some kind of a warrior and then say sorry and come back once they see the difference between living in UK and under groups like ISIS and Taliban.

Let her be stuck there for the benefit of young British Muslims

Obviously you know very little about radicalization works. These people pounce on the jaded and disenfranchised youth and take advantage of their misgivings about the society to lead them to the “righteous path”

If the British system disavows her and it’s quite frankly on the basis of her ethnicity, it’s easy recruiting material for the radicals.

 

[Robert]

But we already know she committed a crime. Running away to Syria to join a terrorist organization. Now she is facing the consequences.

Ah, a minute a go you were looking for evidence of a negative proposition, which is a logical impossibility.

So you allege she was part of a banned organisation, The consequence for committing an alleged crime is trial and possibly sentencing, not loss of citizenship.

 

[Local.Dada]

.

If the British system disavows her and it’s quite frankly on the basis of her ethnicity, it’s easy recruiting material for the radicals.

Well it’s not like there isn’t enough recruiting material already is there?

That’s just an excuse.

That is the headache of British intelligence.

As far as ethnic discrimination is concerned, again that is just clutching at straws, so by the same account she can be viewed as a hero among some people of her community too, isnt that a problem too?

There are more headaches than benefits from bringing her in.

 

[mastimasti]

Well it’s not like there isn’t enough recruiting material already is there?

That’s just an excuse.

That is the headache of British intelligence.

As far as ethnic discrimination is concerned, again that is just clutching at straws, so by the same account she can be viewed as a hero among some people of her community too, isnt that a problem too?

There are more headaches than benefits from bringing her in.

Your post makes no sense and jumps form point to point.

Can you answer why it was ok for white men and women who joined ISIS to come back into Britain?

 

[Robert]

Can you answer why it was ok for white men and women who joined ISIS to come back into Britain?

Has that happened? How many?

 

[Local.Dada]

Can you answer why it was ok for white men and women who joined ISIS to come back into Britain?

It is not. They shouldn’t be let back either. However 2 wrongs don’t make a right. That’s a foolish excuse to let a terrorist back in. May be going forward this can be used as a template against white terrorists too.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If I was a Muslim parent living in the UK,I wouldn’t want Shamima ever to return to the Uk. She is the perfect living example to show young kids the consequences of getting involved with the wrong crowd.

I know we see a lot of wannabe lawyers expert in immigration, law and British constitution but it’s simple sometimes it’s ok to skirt around the rules a little (If actually not allowing back an isis terrorist in to your country is actually considered that) for the greater good.

Otherwise every “innocent” kid is going to think they can go on an adventurer to be some kind of a warrior and then say sorry and come back once they see the difference between living in UK and under groups like ISIS and Taliban.

Let her be stuck there for the benefit of young British Muslims

Your not a Muslim parent, your a hindu poster from India so your views as a Muslim parent can be disregarded. Post your views as a Modi supporter and we can discuss in an honest fashion.

 

[Local.Dada]

Your not a Muslim parent, your a hindu poster from India so your views as a Muslim parent can be disregarded. Post your views as a Modi supporter and we can discuss in an honest fashion.

I didn’t know being a parent and caring about your kids differs depending on ones religion. Also Modi seems to be living in your head rent free. No sane person would pick Taliban or ISIS over living under Modi’s India if those were the only 2 options available.

Then again that is tough to grasp for people living in the comfort of the west and cheerleading for these medieval terrors groups

 

[mastimasti]

It is not. They shouldn’t be let back either. However 2 wrongs don’t make a right. That’s a foolish excuse to let a terrorist back in. May be going forward this can be used as a template against white terrorists too.

I have not made an excuse. I'm simply stating what has happened. Now I am asking you why did it happen and why was Shamima dealt with differently?