Should a European Super League Be Formed?

[Firebat]

This is coming from the manager of Manchester City, formerly Barcelona and Bayern. He as a manager has benefitted as much as anyone from the exorbitant monetary backing of these owners and their dodging of FFP, yet even he doesn't like these plans.

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&#55357;&#56803;️ "It is not sport if the relationship between the effort and reward doesn't exist."<br><br>&#55357;&#56803;️ "It is not sport if it doesn't matter if you lose"<br><br>Pep Guardiola shares his thoughts on the European Super League <a href="https://t.co/Qy7gJMYdUW">pic.twitter.com/Qy7gJMYdUW</a></p>— Sky Sports News (@SkySportsNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384488137867595776?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pep Guardiola admitted he felt "uncomfortable" being asked about the competition because he did not yet know much more than the initial statement but was sceptical on the initial proposal.

"It is not a sport where the relation between effort and success does not exist," Guardiola said.

"It is not a sport where success is already guaranteed, it is not a sport where it doesn't matter when you lose."

 

[Firebat]

There are a myriad of problems, corruption and monopolism with the way things are, with UEFA and FFP, with FIFA, with Sky and the other broadcasters of these leagues. Make no mistake of that.

But a European Super League is taking that to a different level, and does not solve a single one of those problems, just exacerbates them and creates more.

 

[Firebat]

14 remaining Premier League clubs that attended today's meeting have "unanimously and vigorously rejected" plans for a Super League and the league has announced it is "considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing"

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] RE The Fifa/PL/UEFA vs ESL debate, essentially, isn’t it one snake shouting at another snake ? In essence all are concerned about their own financial gain, so you might be more familiar with the impact but I don’t quiet get the high emotion ? I guess from a fans POV, quality can be affected if there is a break up from ‘traditional’ football

 

[PetroDollars]

The english clubs need to realise they are being used here.

All other leagues have been hit so hard by covid, both RM/Barca are bankrupt, Serie A has never been able to get its glory days back and it just gets worse for them every season.

English clubs are the only clubs that are making money right now, they are being used by the likes of parveiz and them.

 

[Saj]

Well, reports that Chelsea are now going to back out of this European Super League.

 

[MenInG]

Manchester City have withdrawn from the European Super League.

Chelsea are also preparing documentation to request withdrawing from the European Super League.

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] RE The Fifa/PL/UEFA vs ESL debate, essentially, isn’t it one snake shouting at another snake ? In essence all are concerned about their own financial gain, so you might be more familiar with the impact but I don’t quiet get the high emotion ? I guess from a fans POV, quality can be affected if there is a break up from ‘traditional’ football

I agree, let's be honest community spirit and tradition went out the window in elite level football a long time ago. They're all as bad as each other. FIFA and UEFA are corrupt to the core, with the latter failing to enforce Financial Fair Play rules allowing these oil tycoons and oligarchs to buy their way to success.

I haven't watched a full 90 mins play in years but I had to laugh reading there's a PSG vs Man City CL semi-final. Basically my corrupt, human rights abusing Gulf petrostate vs your corrupt, human rights abusing Gulf petrostate. This is what football has come to.

 

[MenInG]

Ed Woodward has resigned as chairman of Manchester United - Woodward’s decision comes after the backlash over the European Super League.

 

[MenInG]

And some more news:

All 12 clubs are meeting tonight to discuss disbanding the Super League. (talksport)

 

[IAJ]

Chelsea and City, the two clubs which get a lot of stick for buying themselves to trophies are the first ones to pull out. What are the traditional Clubs full of history thinking about?

 

[MenInG]

Manchester City have withdrawn from the European Super League (ESL) and Chelsea are also preparing to do so.

Efforts to leave come just two days after both were announced as two of six English clubs to sign up to the controversial new competition.

The ESL has been widely criticised since being announced on Sunday.

Around 1,000 fans gathered outside Chelsea's Stamford Bridge home ground before their game against Brighton on Tuesday to protest their involvement.

Chelsea and City were part of English football's 'big six' clubs - alongside Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United and Tottenham - to have agreed to join the new league.

In total, 12 European clubs announced their intentions to form the breakaway league, which they hoped to establish as a new midweek competition.

It was condemned by football authorities and government ministers in the UK and across Europe by Uefa and leagues associations.

Chelsea were the first club to indicate they will not press ahead by preparing documentation to withdraw. City withdrew soon after.

Chelsea and City were not drivers of this plan, they were the last to sign and feared being left behind.

It is not clear how easy it is or how binding the contracts are.

The decision to try and have Chelsea leave was taken by owner Roman Abramovich and the club's board board after witnessing negative global reaction to the Super League.

There was a fear that it could do reputational damage to the club and undermine some of its campaigning and community work.

Questions were raised internally as to whether fans would respond to the club if it continued with a proposal which has gone down so badly.

The decision was made earlier on Tuesday before protests started outside Stamford Bridge.

Earlier in the day, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson met with the Football Association, Premier League officials and fans' representatives, after which the government said it will take "whatever action necessary", including legislative options, to ensure the proposals were stopped.

Johnson's stance is supported by Labour and the Liberal Democrats.

A statement released after a meeting between the Premier League and the 14 clubs not involved said they "unanimously and vigorously" rejected plans for the competition.

It added that it is considering "all actions available" to stop the competition and asked the six teams to end their involvement immediately.

While English involvement has quickly been reconsidered, there has been no indication from the the other six clubs from Spain and Italy - which includes Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, Inter Milan, Juventus and AC Milan - that they are are considering doing the same.

Real president Florentino Perez, who has was named as the ESL's chairman, said the competition was set up "to save football" because young people are "no longer interested" in the game because of "a lot of poor quality games".

AC Milan chief executive Ivan Gazidis said the ESL would be "a new, exciting chapter for the game" and that it will "provide value and support" across European football.

Meanwhile, Juventus manager Andrea Pirlo came out in support of the ESL and the club's owner Andrea Agnelli, who quit as European Club Association (ECA) chairman after signing the Turin club up to the new competition.

"He explained this project to us, he gave us great confidence, but the most important thing he told us is that we have to continue with our work," Pirlo said.

BBC

 

[OldWarHorse]

What a turn around these last few hours..Woodward and Agnelli resigning. Time for Perez to pack up and join them

 

[IAJ]

What a turn around these last few hours..Woodward and Agnelli resigning. Time for Perez to pack up and join them

What a joke. Didn’t these guy know there will be massive protests and didn’t they calculate how to overcome this. No plan B lol. Even PCB er more professional.

 

[PetroDollars]

Done and dusted, what a miscalculated step by them.

 

[Saj]

Done and dusted, what a miscalculated step by them.

Seems like it's over even before it's started.

The reaction to the idea has probably shocked some of these clubs.

 

[Manunited18]

The issue is these clubs have signed binding contracts with this break away league, interesting how this plays out now

 

[Saj]

If it doesn't happen now, then this idea will come up again in future and will become an issue.

It may not go ahead this time, but there will come a day when the European Super League becomes a reality.

 

[PetroDollars]

If it doesn't happen now, then this idea will come up again in future and will become an issue.

It may not go ahead this time, but there will come a day when the European Super League becomes a reality.

What would shock everyone is that UEFA had planned exactly that in 2024 to replace the champions league

 

[OldWarHorse]

What a joke. Didn’t these guy know there will be massive protests and didn’t they calculate how to overcome this. No plan B lol. Even PCB er more professional.

I dont think they expected the UK government getting involved to the extent it did. Its them that have turned the screws somewhere in the background hence you see all the English clubs backing out so soon. The hints in the ESL statement suggests so

 

[MenInG]

All six Premier League teams involved in the European Super League have now withdrawn from the competition.

Manchester City were the first club to pull out after Chelsea had signalled their intent to do so by preparing documentation to withdraw.

The other four sides - Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United and Tottenham - have all now followed suit.

The Super League said it would reconsider "the most appropriate steps" to reshape the project.

The 12-team Super League was announced on Sunday to widespread condemnation.

Manchester City confirmed they have "formally enacted the procedures to withdraw" from the Super League.

Liverpool said their involvement in the proposed breakaway league "has been discontinued".

Manchester United said they had "listened carefully to the reaction from our fans, the UK government and other key stakeholders" in making their decision to not take part.

Arsenal apologised in an open letter to their fans and said they had "made a mistake", adding they were withdrawing after listening to them and the "wider football community".

Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy said the club regretted the "anxiety and upset" caused by the proposal.

Chelsea confirmed they have "begun the formal procedures for withdrawal from the group" that they only joined "late last week".

UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin welcomed the reversal, adding: "They are back in the fold now and I know they have a lot to offer not just to our competitions but to the whole of the European game.

"The important thing now is that we move on, rebuild the unity that the game enjoyed before this and move forward together."

In a statement, the European Super League said: "Given the current circumstances we shall reconsider the most appropriate steps to reshape the project, always having in mind our goals of offering fans the best experience possible while enhancing solidarity payments for the entire football community."

English football's 'big six' were part of a group, also containing Spain's Atletico Madrid, Barcelona and Real Madrid and Italy's AC Milan, Inter Milan and Juventus, that announced plans to form the breakaway league, which they hoped to establish as a new midweek competition.

It was condemned by fans, football authorities and government ministers in the UK and across Europe by Uefa and league associations.

Around 1,000 fans gathered outside Chelsea's Stamford Bridge ground before their game against Brighton on Tuesday to protest at their club's involvement.

Manchester United executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward, who was involved in the Super League discussions, has announced he will step down from his role at the end of 2021.

Leading players at some of the six clubs signalled their disapproval of the planned breakaway league.

Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson said on social media his side's "collective position" is they do not want the Super League to take place.

"We don't like it and we don't want it to happen," read a message that was also posted by many fellow Liverpool players.

After City confirmed their withdrawal, England winger Raheem Sterling posted: "Ok bye."

Uefa had hoped to stave off the threat of a European Super League with a new 36-team Champions League, which was agreed on Monday.

In announcing their proposals for a Super League that would eventually comprise of 20 teams, the 12-club group said the Champions League reforms did not go far enough.

Real Madrid president Florentino Perez, who was named as the ESL's chairman, said the competition was set up "to save football" because young people are "no longer interested" in the game because of "a lot of poor quality games".

None of the Spanish and Italian sides have yet released a statement after the six Premier League teams pulled out.

What did each club say?

The Arsenal board said they did not intend to "cause such distress" and that they joined the Super League because they "did not want to be left behind" and wanted to ensure the club's future.

"Our aim is always to make the right decisions for this great football club, to protect it for the future and to take us forward," they added.

"We didn't make the right decision here, which we fully accept."

Manchester United said that they "remain committed to working with others across the football community to come up with sustainable solutions to the long-term challenges facing the game".

Liverpool said the club had "received representations from various key stakeholders, both internally and externally" before reaching their decision and thanked them for their "valuable contributions".

Levy said that Tottenham felt it was "important" to take part in "a possible new structure that sought to better ensure financial fair play and financial sustainability whilst delivering significantly increased support for the wider football pyramid".

He added: "We should like to thank all those supporters who presented their considered opinions."

Chelsea said that after having had "time to consider the matter fully" they had decided that their "continued participation in these plans would not be in the best interests of the club, our supporters or the wider football community".

Manchester City said they have "formally enacted the procedures to withdraw from the group developing plans for a European Super League".

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56823501

 

[James]

Well that didn’t last long.

 

[OMB]

Could still have other than English clubs (16 or so) going for it.

 

[mazkhan]

Premier league can survive

But without the European super league other clubs in Europe will find it a struggle for the sake of clubs in Spain and Italy you need a European super league .
maybe the Spanish, Italians can first start it then bring in some Portuguese teams Porto benfica , then likes of psg can come in and eventually some of the other bigger firms in France like lyon , Monaco, lille, marseille

If its successful then the English clubs will probably join .

Because la liga and serie a are rapidly declining and the clubs at the top have financial problems

 

[OMB]

yes AC Milan estimated that they can add 200-300 m Euros if they join ESL. big money for these clubs

 

[mazkhan]

yes AC Milan estimated that they can add 200-300 m Euros if they join ESL. big money for these clubs

But the brits won't go down kicking and screaming because they want to protect their product which is the premier league.

Hence most of the opposition is from the brits and British media .

It's hypocrisy because the premier league itself has killed the lower league teams in the UK anyway gone are the days of Nottingham forest, Sheffield Wednesday , oldham etc competing at the top. You have all the money at the top

 

[mazkhan]

And talking of tradition it didn't stop garry neville allowing Peter lim a Singaporean billionaire to invest in Salford City, and he's talking of level playing field and tradition what a rat boy .

 

[OMB]

European Super League: Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli says project cannot proceed

Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli says the European Super League project cannot proceed following the withdrawal of the six Premier League clubs.

Agnelli was one of the chief architects of the breakaway plans, which involved 12 clubs from England, Spain and Italy.

However, with teams withdrawing, he accepts it cannot now go ahead.

"To be frank and honest no, evidently that is not the case," said Agnelli, when asked whether the Super League could still happen.

"I remain convinced of the beauty of that project, of the value that it would have developed to the pyramid, of the creation of the best competition in the world, but evidently no. I don't think that project is now still up and running."

Agnelli was described as a "snake and a liar" by Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin on Monday after the announcement of the breakaway plans on Sunday evening.

Agnelli resigned his position as chairman of the European Clubs' Association on Sunday and refused to take calls from Ceferin.

How football's volatile 48 hours unfolded
The six Premier League clubs involved all withdrew within hours of each other on Tuesday following a furious backlash to the plans.

Manchester City were the first club to pull out after Chelsea had signalled their intent to do so by preparing documentation to withdraw.

The other four sides - Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United and Tottenham - then followed suit late on Tuesday evening.

Italian side Inter Milan are also set to withdraw as they no longer wish to be involved with the project.

BBC Sport understands bosses at the Serie A club are preparing for their exit following Tuesday night's dramatic developments.


The 12-team Super League, set up by the six English teams and Inter, plus Spain's Atletico Madrid, Barcelona and Real Madrid and Italy's AC Milan and Juventus was announced on Sunday to widespread condemnation.

"Despite the announced departure of the English clubs, forced to take such decisions due to the pressure put on them, we are convinced our proposal is fully aligned with European law and regulations," the ESL said earlier on Wednesday, adding it was "convinced that the current status quo of European football needs to change".

"Real Madrid president Florentino Perez is insisting on the idea of keeping the group together to push for change," says Spanish football expert Guillem Balague.

"Barcelona say they agreed to the ESL, but only if the season ticket holders' assembly approve it, which could be their way out."

Balague also says Atletico Madrid are meeting on Wednesday morning to review their position.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56830308

 

[MenInG]

The owner of Liverpool FC has apologised to fans, manager Jurgen Klopp and his players over the club's bid to join the European Super League - which has now been aborted.

In a video posted on the club's official Twitter feed, John W Henry said: "I want to apologise to all the fans and supporters of Liverpool Football Club for the disruption I caused over the past 48 hours."

He said the project "was never going to stand without the support of the fans", adding: "No one ever thought differently in England and over these 48 hours you were very clear that it would not stand. We heard you, I heard you."

He also apologised to Klopp, his players and staff, saying: "They have absolutely no responsibility for this disruption."

It comes after Prime Minister Boris Johnson called the withdrawal of the six Premier League teams from the proposed Super League as the "right result for football fans, clubs and communities across the country".

Welcoming the exits of Chelsea, Manchester City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham and Manchester United from the controversial competition, Boris Johnson said: "We must continue to protect our cherished national game."

The teams announced their departures amid protests from fans and fierce criticism from many within the game, including former players and pundits.

Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden told Sky News that it was a "victory for fans" and "the country has been united in condemning these proposals".

"We were willing to take very very bold measures to stop this proposal going ahead," he said.

Mr Dowden added that it was "very important that we don't see this as the end of the process", saying: "What this has highlighted more than ever is the need to look at the wider governance of football."

He said a government review announced on Monday will continue and examine "how we address football governance, football finance and indeed the whole fan experience".

In light of the English clubs' withdrawal, the Super League said it was considering "appropriate steps to reshape the project".

It said in a statement: "Despite the announced departure of the English clubs, forced to take such decisions due to the pressure put on them, we are convinced our proposal is fully aligned with European law and regulations as was demonstrated today [Tuesday] by a court decision to protect the Super League from third party actions.

'We have given strength to fans in stopping this'

"Given the current circumstances, we shall reconsider the most appropriate steps to reshape the project, always having in mind our goals of offering fans the best experience possible while enhancing solidarity payments for the entire football community.

"The European Super League is convinced that the current status quo of European football needs to change. We are proposing a new European competition because the existing system does not work.

"Our proposal is aimed at allowing the sport to evolve while generating resources and stability for the full football pyramid, including helping to overcome the financial difficulties experienced by the entire football community as a result of the pandemic."

Chelsea, faced with an angry protest from their fans outside their Stamford Bridge stadium, was first club to act, preparing documents to formally withdraw.

Owner Roman Abramovich is understood to have driven the decision, having listened to fan protests and opted to back out.

Manchester City soon followed, with the club saying in a statement that it had "enacted the procedures to withdraw" from the competition.

Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy said he regretted the "anxiety and upset" caused as he confirmed the club had "formally commenced procedures" to pull out.

Announcing its decision to also withdraw, Liverpool said: "Liverpool Football Club can confirm that our involvement in proposed plans to form a European Super League has been discontinued.

"In recent days, the club has received representations from various key stakeholders, both internally and externally, and we would like to thank them for their valuable contributions."

Meanwhile Arsenal admitted to making "a mistake" and apologised after confirming its departure.

An open letter from the club's board said: "The last few days have shown us yet again the depth of feeling our supporters around the world have for this great club and the game we love.

"We needed no reminding of this but the response from supporters in recent days has given us time for further reflection and deep thought."

SKY

 

[Greenstorm]

As predicted, the league failed before even starting.

Unlike cricket, Football is not played by only 8 or so nations.

Its not easy to monopolize a sport that is loved globally.

 

[KingKhanWC]

As I stated, people power won!

The owners have apologised, it's time to move on and look foward to the end of the season & the Euros

 

[Firebat]

This won't be the end of this I'm afraid, rather the start. This failed in the short term because the changes were far too drastic and they clearly did not anticipate such a visceral reaction from all football fans.

But change has been happening for decades, slowly but surely. The Champions League format of today is a far cry from the European Cup of 30 years ago, and we will be saying the same thing in 30 years from now.

Already the new Champions League format coming in 2024 is a Super League beta version. 36 teams, not 32. No groups, one big league table. 10 guaranteed non-knockout games, not 6. And 2 clubs who did not qualify through their domestic leagues, will still participate due to historical European pedigree.

Every new format and change for 30 years has been to give more guaranteed games (and therefore revenue) for more clubs with less requirements for actual success or effort. And this ESL debacle is a big wake up call for what's coming.

Clubs like Juventus, Barcelona and Real Madrid are coming to the end of their eras of dominance. They are suffering and they know it, and, however long it takes, they will not be stopped in eternally striving to maximise every possible revenue stream.

 

[shaykh]

If there’s anyone on here who actually supports the Super League then get a load of Perez’s interviews...if they wanted to win hearts and minds they really picked the wrong guy...it’s really a shame that covid didn’t do it’s job when he caught it...

This is from yesterday’s interview:

“We have probably not presented the project well, but we also weren’t given a chance.”

“In my 20 years in Football, I’ve never seen such aggressiveness from UEFA and the presidents of the FAs.”

“I came here to help, this is a financial situation that football has never faced. We must do something. We have been abused for trying.”

“I am convinced that there were people who have privileges that did not want to lose them, and that’s why they fought back this way. We need to work TOGETHER to save football.”

“It's impossible to make signings like Haaland or Mbappe without the Super League."

“It cannot be that in England, the six lose money, and 14 make money. In Spain the top three lose money, and the others make money. It cannot continue - at the moment the rich are those who are losing money.”

“There was going to be a second league, like the Champions League, for the other teams to play in.”

“The Super League is on STANDBY. The clubs are together even though the situation changed.”

“No one has left me alone in this project. We’ve been speaking with all the clubs to see how this project can progress. We have the MONEY.”

“Juventus and AC Milan have not left the #SuperLeague. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus and AC Milan are still in talks to find solutions”.

“If this project didn’t work, another one will. Remember: all the 12 clubs have signed a biding contract”.

“I think one of the 6 Premier League clubs weren't really convinced of the project... and it became contagious to the rest of them”.

“Those 15 clubs earned it on the pitch, they've been winning trophies for the last 20 years. How can you say they haven't earned it?"

“Football has been sustained by the big clubs. It has been the case for decades.”

“The Manchester owners have started a campaign of manipulation, that we will end the leagues. I will not say which club."

“I believe the English clubs have NOT totally left. They’re tired of the backlash that this project has produced. I’ve seen them work on this with a lot of excitement.”

“We cannot file lawsuits against the English clubs right now. But there are contracts that have been signed.”

“The contracts were binding and were signed. We are not going to sue the Premier League clubs”.

“We are and have been open to receive new proposals. Our goal is to create more money to save football.”

“We are open for other ideas, but if a club from a smaller league, say Turkey, wants to enter, the problem is that the money comes from the big games, where there is competition. The games without competition don’t make money.”

“I don’t fear UEFA or FIFA.”

“Real Madrid are not rich.. they are rich in trophies."

“In general, there will not be big transfers this summer. When money does not flow from the rich clubs to the poor clubs, everyone suffers.”

“If someone thinks it is the end of the Super League they are wrong..."


This is from his interview before everyone withdrew:

“UEFA is a monopoly, I need to save football”

“It’s not good thing that the big teams lose money while the smaller teams win. That trend will end up collapsing the welfare of football.”

“All the leagues will remain the same. This competition is being made as a separate competition being made to replace the Champions League.”

“The Premier League is impossible to change. If the bigger clubs are stronger, then the rest of the teams will be stronger.”

“If we have more money, it will be better for EVERYONE, because we will be able to sign players from smaller clubs for a lot of money and help them too."

“UEFA is a monopoly, they should be more transparent. The players should be very calm about the situation, nothing will happen to them. They will be able to play with their nations.”

“We have created the Super League to SAVE football.”

“We must fix the revenue problems by making matches much more COMPETITIVE.”

“We have designed an innovative and revolutionary tournament, that is why the same teams that compete in the Champions League every year will be here.”

“I can guarantee that NONE of the clubs being part of the Super League will be expelled this season.”

“The attractive thing in football is playing between big clubs, the value for television increases and more income is generated. It's not just the rich who want the Super League, we're doing it to save football because it's at a critical moment.”

 

[shaykh]

The 12 really misread the room...

While this might be presented as a victory for the fans...if it was just the fans who were appalled they would have gone through with it...

What they didn’t expect was players, managers and then MP’s to come out against it ...

It’s absolutely insane that they didn’t even run this by managers and players...serious levels of disrespect ...

Really a deplorable set of people...who actually managed to make UEFA look like good guys and even made Boris look like a hero lol ...

They just simply don’t understand football fans in England...these stupid Americans with their confusion about relegation...and their desire to eliminate risk and competitiveness and then these other scummy clubs who rather than cutback on spending try and create a league where they can spend more...

Madrid have just signed Alaba for €400k a week and yet this cretin has the audacity to cry poverty ...

 

[shaykh]

Is it hypocritical to support the formation of the Premier League but oppose the Super League?

One of the ‘whataboutist’ arguments I noticed quite frequently online made in favour of the Super League was to label fans opposed to it as hypocrites as the Premier League is itself a breakaway league...”so you didn’t say the PL was an attack on football but you call the SL an attack”...the same argument is made for Sky who of course bought broadcasting rights for the Prem...any credence to this? ...

Quite a lazy comparison imo...and a common example of false equivalence...

So for a bit of context throughout UK TV history live football wasn’t really a thing...the first live league game in full was broadcast in 1983...in 1986 for instance the TV deal agreed between with the ITV and BBC involved showing just 7 games...clubs had originally been opposed to lots of televised games due to a belief it would effect attendance at games, but once laws came in mandating seating their minds changed as gate receipts would naturally be lower as a result...

So in 1988 ITV secured a TV deal for £44m with the Football League and in the 1988/89 season aired 20 live games...17/20 of those live games involved what was then the ‘Big 5’ which was Arsenal, Everton, Man U, Spurs and Liverpool...that £44m would be evenly divided among the 92 members of the Football League ...

The Big 5 and Greg Dyke incidentally had made secret plans for a breakaway league prior to the Prem...it was in lieu of that that the Football League made their deal with ITV...

So what of the Prem?....it was most certainly an idea pushed by the Big 5 clubs...Greg Dyke at ITV too was Florentino Perez like in his belief that interest only lied with those 5 clubs...so the big 5 sought a breakaway league with it’s own TV deal which would be divided between members of that league...but obviously they needed more than 5 clubs...

The recruits?...would be the remainder of the 22 clubs in the First Division...and how did they appeal to them?...money...and democracy within...so a 5025 split of TV revenue...50% shared equally between the clubs, 25% based on league position and the remaining 25% based on live games for which each club would have a minimum number...

In addition one club, one vote with a 2/3 majority needed to enact rules...the same situation as today...promotion/relegation would remain...

So what this indeed was...was a shafting of the Football League...these 22 clubs decided they didn’t want to share TV revenue with the rest of the Football League...ie the aim much like the Super League was one of greed...the same idea too of claiming ones own TV rights...

However one big difference...it wasn’t a closed shop...promotion and relegation remained...so your existence in the league wasn’t permanent or fixed...and sides could get promoted and enjoy the same benefits as the rest...not this 15 fixed members and 5 guests every year with no risk of removal...ie the elimination of competition and risk that the Super League pushes...Everton for instance are no longer one of the ‘big’ clubs...and finished as low as 17th just 2 years after the Prem was created...

What’s also worth noting is ITV and Dyke’s offer of £262m was actually the choice of the Big 5 clubs minus Alan Sugar...Dyke had pretty much promised the status quo which was to air games of the Big 5 live...

Sugar had a vested interest in Sky with Amstrad so he was the only ‘Big 5’ club not to vote for ITV...interestingly Villa and Leeds chose ITV too...there were 2 abstentions which meant an overall 14-6 victory for Sky...not only was their offer higher (£304m) but Rick Parry the executive of the PL said that the rest felt Sky offered a better product, more matches, more teams, more time slots, analysis before and after games...and that the extra money had swayed the rest of the clubs...

So the Big 5 at the time got shafted by their own 1 club 1 vote system...it seems odd then to blame Sky...if anything ITV was the choice of the original instigators...and it was with them the original breakaway had been negotiated...and had Sugar (who had replaced original plotter Irving Scholar) not been chairman of Spurs then ITV would have won...

That breakaway league the Prem certainly made those clubs richer...and was the Prem giving the finger to the Football League that’s fair enough...ie the greed comparison with the Super League ...but it’s worth noting that West Ham, Newcastle and Leicester were in the division below in 1992/93...and now two of those clubs are challenging for CL qualification...

It’s obviously not perfect but the comparison between the creation of the Premier League and the completely unmeritocratic and uncompetitive Super League is far fetched...if anything the fact that the ‘Big 6’ are trying to break away is evidence of that...they don’t like competition...Villa are a good example of how it’s not fixed...2nd in the inaugural season and have experienced relegation...Oldham were also in the inaugural season etc...

So was the Prem a greedy enterprise?...yes...
Was it a power grab?...yes...
Was it a closed shop?...no...
Did it have permanent members by right?...no?...
Was it unmeritocratic?...no?...

So does it make one a hypocrite to accept the foundations of the Prem but be furious about the Super League?...for me atleast no...although I accept it as a greedy enterprise much as I view the reform of European competition as greedy...but the line for me is the elimination of merit and competition which is what the Super League was pushing...that and the fact that they wanted to remain in their respective leagues not breakaway from it...i would have been more accepting if they just wanted to leave the Prem...

 

[MenInG]

The European Super League (ESL) is on "standby" despite nine of the 12 founding teams withdrawing, says Real Madrid president Florentino Perez.

After a furious backlash against the proposed tournament that was announced on Sunday, all six Premier League clubs involved withdrew on Tuesday.

Spanish club Atletico Madrid and Italian sides AC Milan and Inter Milan have also formally pulled out.

"We're going to continue working," said Perez. "The project is on standby."

Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus have not withdrawn, although Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli said the project could not now proceed.

Speaking on the El Larguero show on Spanish radio station Cadena Ser, Super League chairman Perez claimed all 12 clubs "have not left yet".

"You cannot get out of the contract like this - they are binding contracts," he added.

When asked what the penalty was for leaving the project, Perez did not answer.

Why the ESL failed - and will clubs try again?

Perez reiterated his view that the ESL was created "to save football", having also previously said the move had been made because young people were "no longer interested in football" because of "a lot of poor quality games".

He added he was "sad and disappointed" by the reaction to the project, which the clubs have been working on "for around three years".

He accused Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin and various countries' footballing authorities of "aggression" and "threats" towards the ESL.

"Maybe we didn't explain it well, but they also didn't give us an opportunity to explain it," said the 74-year-old.

"I've been in football for 20 years and I've never seen threats like this. It was like we killed someone. It was like we killed football. But we were trying to work out how to save football."

A revamped 36-team Champions League, starting in 2024, was agreed on Monday, although the ESL teams had said in its announcement of Sunday it did not think Uefa's reforms went far enough.

"The Champions League format is old and only interesting from the quarter-finals onwards," said Perez.

"This format clearly doesn't work, so we thought that we could have a format where the most important teams in Europe play against each other from the very beginning of the season.

"We worked out the numbers and felt we could make much more money, more money for all the other teams too."

Perez also claimed one of English football's 'big six' - Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham - were reluctant about the ESL from the start.

"There was someone in the English group that didn't have much interest, I won't say who," he said.

"That began to infect others, who are also people of an age, and who are perhaps afraid because they did not understand anything of what was happening.

"We all signed a binding agreement, but I think one was never very convinced."

BBC

 

[mazkhan]

Perez is spot on

Wages and signing fees are absurdly high, and with influx of owners with oil and nation states behind them the prices have gone way too high.

The balloon has grown too big and is gonna pop ,its not sustainable alongside the pressure of qualifying for champions league and not missing out on the money which effects the English clubs to sustain that wage bill.

The only way is the super league .

Or otherwise the European clubs have to stop rich owners buying up clubs like man City, psg , Chelsea and driving up the prices and wages , and set a player wage cap or a cap on signing fees , amount clubs can spend.

The danger is there will be a rival setup in China, or middle east popping up without wage caps and players with lure for money head of to some rival setups in Asia .

So unless you have the super league I don't know how this can work for big clubs there's a reason mo.salah is still at Liverpool because neither barca or real can afford him .

 

[shaykh]

Perez is spot on

Wages and signing fees are absurdly high, and with influx of owners with oil and nation states behind them the prices have gone way too high.

The balloon has grown too big and is gonna pop ,its not sustainable alongside the pressure of qualifying for champions league and not missing out on the money which effects the English clubs to sustain that wage bill.

The only way is the super league .

Or otherwise the European clubs have to stop rich owners buying up clubs like man City, psg , Chelsea and driving up the prices and wages , and set a player wage cap or a cap on signing fees , amount clubs can spend.

The danger is there will be a rival setup in China, or middle east popping up without wage caps and players with lure for money head of to some rival setups in Asia .

So unless you have the super league I don't know how this can work for big clubs there's a reason mo.salah is still at Liverpool because neither barca or real can afford him .

Lmao...what nonsense...Real can choose not to pay these wages and salaries...like other clubs that don’t have money...

Perez while pleading poverty yesterday also sealed a deal for Alaba at 400k a week...all the other clubs interested baulked at that request...Real didnt...

You know what to do when you can’t afford Mbappe?...don’t try and buy him...

You know what you do when you’re over a billion in debt...cutback on spending and offload players...reduce your wages...

These disgraceful clubs wanted an exclusive club where they picked up 300m a year...also wanted to create a rule where members wouldn’t trade with each other...so in Perez’s words they could help ‘little’ clubs by buying their best players...

You know what...I could have actually accepted all of this nonsense...except these cretins also decided on a closed shop...eliminating meritocracy and ensuring a money stream to 15 clubs irregardless of performance...

How anyone can support that...and claim to be a football fan I don’t know...

 

[mazkhan]

The only reason they are in for alaba is because he is on a free transfer, hence why he has upped his ridiculous wage demands. If there was a signing on fee it would be much reduced or real simply wouldn't able to stump up the cash due to the pandemic losses.

It's simple either introduce a wage cap , signing cap or put a system where there is cap on amount of transfers a club can do because the current model is not sustainable.

 

[mazkhan]

Also due to players wages you simply have, there are no loyalties in football anymore the game has turned into a money hungry business, these same players if they don't get their wages in Europe will look towards the middle east and China in future which are emerging rich football markets .

 

[mazkhan]

But I reckon the best method is the wage cap , I believe China may be introducing one for its league

 

[shaykh]

The only reason they are in for alaba is because he is on a free transfer, hence why he has upped his ridiculous wage demands. If there was a signing on fee it would be much reduced or real simply wouldn't able to stump up the cash due to the pandemic losses.

It's simple either introduce a wage cap , signing cap or put a system where there is cap on amount of transfers a club can do because the current model is not sustainable.

Alaba is most certainly not free...like most ‘free’ transfers there is a ridiculous signing on fee...reportedly between €20-25m and that is minus agent fees...amortised the transfer is likely over 500k a week...

If clubs didn’t pay such extortionate wages then they wouldn’t exist...how many clubs wanted Alaba and walked away after they heard his demands...but the club that moans about high wages is the only club willing to pay it ...

A wage cap makes little sense when all clubs are not on an equal footing...I’ve seen them mentioned as wage to revenue ratios rise but then that’s clubs not being run properly...my own club once had a 175% wage to revenue ...this is just poor ownership...no-one forces clubs to buy players and spend beyond their means...

Barcelona has the highest revenue of any club in the world...but it also has the highest wage bill in the world too...nearly double of clubs doing better than them ...

Perez is complaining about not signing Mbappe...Real have the second biggest revenue and second largest wage bill in the world...cry me a river...and stop being so profligate ...

Bayern for example know know when to say no...

 

[mazkhan]

You are mistaken there is no signing on fee or agent taking a cut ,David alaba has run down his contract and is going on a free transfer .

David Alaba has reached an agreement to join Real Madrid on a free transfer in the summer, bringing to an end an 13-year spell at Bayern Munich. The defender will sign a four-year deal with the Spanish champions in the next few weeks.

Hence his higher wage demands the transfer is free.

There's no way real would have signed him if they had to pay a fee to bayern , sort out the agent and then his wages he would be way too much.


As for wage cap I stand by it China has done well to introduce one because they were paying ridiculous wages to Brazilian mercenaries

As for super league the big teams have every right since they are the ones who bring all the money, the huge fan base, global appeal , the Asia market that wants to watch the big guns so cry me a river elsewhere

 

[mazkhan]

My mistake over the signing on fee clarify that I meant transfer fee , there is a signing on fee but that is part of the huge wage packet anyway for alaba.

The saving real make for the sign on fee is not paying bayern transfer fee , so where they save on the transfer fee + clauses they can pay the signing fee and the agents cut .


As for the German model that is entirely different they are 51% fan owned

That will never work in England etc because the clubs are too big and fans won't able to afford the shares

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/21/investing/jpmorgan-european-super-league/index.html?Type=Store&bt_ee=zQln82Iz77bG%2FhE0Im7I2spXrLBP9pnyfVFadWuckm4%3D&bt_ts=1619038927244

When JPMorgan Chase agreed to finance a breakaway competition of some of the world's richest soccer clubs, it expected some heated discussions.

But America's biggest bank didn't foresee this: Following massive blowback from fans, the sport's governing bodies, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, French President Emmanuel Macron and even the British royal family, efforts to form the European Super League have crumbled in a matter of days.

"I don't think that project is now still up and running," Andrea Agnelli, chairman of Italian club Juventus and one of the plan's key architects, said on Wednesday. The 12 teams that tried to form the doomed league have been accused of seeking to orchestrate a massive cash grab by walling themselves off from competition, a goal that runs counter to the traditions of European football.

JPMorgan (JPM), which provided a €3.5 billion ($4.2 billion) loan to get the project started, is now being painted as a willing accomplice to billionaire club owners out to line their own pockets while undermining one of Europe's prized cultural assets with its roots in working-class communities.

The bank has faced criticism and mockery on social media for its role in the deal. One Twitter user sarcastically included a screen shot of Jamie Dimon's recent letter to shareholders, in which the CEO states that "businesses must earn the trust of their customers and communities by acting ethically and morally." Others joked about the demise of the "JPMorgan Cup" and slammed America's efforts to "invade" the European sport.

How did JPMorgan get it so wrong?

The bank declined to comment. But a source familiar with the discussions said JPMorgan's involvement was vetted by an internal committee that assesses potential deals for reputation or credit risks. The lender predicted there could be controversy, but in the end, it would be a matter "for the football world to decide."

"There's always a large emotional component to [sports]," the source said. "When you're making a financial decision on a loan, you have to try to put emotion aside."

The source said discussions about forming a league had been underway for a number of years, though JPMorgan was not involved in any negotiations between clubs.

The bank had existing relationships with many of the teams involved. It provided stadium financing for Real Madrid, whose president Florentino Perez was also set to lead the Super League.

The debt-financing agreement was a long-term bet, with funding set to be paid off over 23 years and secured against the competition's future broadcasting rights, which were expected to be extremely lucrative.

But JPMorgan clearly underestimated the magnitude of the backlash, which the source admitted had been "extraordinary."

The bank will not suffer a financial loss if the project doesn't go ahead. But among some fans of the sport, its image has taken a major hit.

"The reputational risk in being the principal financier ... is massive," commentator Ben Marlow wrote in a column published this week in UK newspaper The Telegraph. "Bank-bashers will see it as a gift."

The Guardian observed that it's a good thing JPMorgan has not yet launched its new digital UK bank.
"If it had, calls for a boycott would probably be heard already," wrote financial editor Nils Pratley.

 

[mazkhan]

Since its the big clubs that bring the TV money , sponsors then the league would have easily been financially viable and grown further it would also make the clubs more richer allow them to make more money and cut out the middleman that are uefa and the respected leagues in their countries which the 12 come from .

The esl would have had a salary , transfer cap at 55 % of revenue so would have allowed the clubs financial stability.


This current runaway model is not sustainable . Just look how liverpool bought Diego jota in installments like some car finace deal . They simply couldn't stump the money upfront, like I said its not sustainable and once these sugar dadies at man City Chelsea psg have come.its got worse.
Imagine if the Prince salman had bought Newcastle.
It's ruined.football , the premiership and sky itself created this mess and runaway wages and ever.increasing transfers , now clubs have to get in debt to run or.need a.sugar daddy owner to splash cash so.they can compete.

 

[Saj]

So Real Madrid and Barcelona aren't giving up on the idea so easily.

I'm sure this will not go away so easily.

These owners will not give up on the idea just because fans aren't happy.

 

[James]

Interesting that the idea went down like the biggest lead balloon in history in England, Germany, and France; whereas there are Italian and particularly Spanish clubs whom are determined to hang on — and specifically it is Juventus, Barcelona and Real Madrid who are still trying to promote this gigantic travesty, the three European clubs which have long been reputed as the dodgiest, dirtiest, and most institutionally corrupt of all football clubs.

 

[Robert]

As I stated, people power won!

The owners have apologised, it's time to move on and look foward to the end of the season & the Euros

As if the owners care. They make very little from takings on the gates and season tickets. The real money is in international pay-per-view. They will try to break away again and manage the PR better this time.

English Football sold its soul when the Premiership was set up.

 

[Firebat]

European Super League: Chelsea 'deeply regret' involvement in competition

Owner Roman Abramovich and the Chelsea board say they "deeply regret" the decision to join the controversial European Super League.

They were one of six Premier League clubs to join only to withdraw 48 hours later following a furious backlash.

Chelsea fans held a protest on Tuesday to make their feelings known.

"The owner and board understand that involving the club in such a proposal was a decision we should not have taken," the club said.

"It is a decision we deeply regret."

Chelsea added that the initial decision to join the Super League was taken because they did not want to risk "falling behind" their English and European rivals.

However, they said they quickly recognised that their involvement risked damaging the club's reputation.

"We have taken time since withdrawing from the ESL to speak directly the various supporter groups and listen to their views and concerns," the Blues added.

"Our ambition with Chelsea has always been to make it the best club in the world, both on the pitch and in how we work with, and give back to the community off it."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56868064

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56873448

Real Madrid president Florentino Perez says the 12 clubs that agreed to join a new European Super League have "binding contracts" and "cannot leave".

Nine of the 12 teams, including all six Premier League clubs, withdrew from the proposed tournament on Tuesday after the plan sparked a furious backlash.

Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus have not yet abandoned the project.

"I don't need to explain what a binding contract is, but effectively the clubs cannot leave," Perez told newspaper AS.

"Some of them, due to pressure, have said they're leaving. But this project, or one very similar, will move forward and I hope very soon." The Real president added it was "not true" American investment bank JP Morgan - who had provided a 3.5bn euro (£2.8bn) grant to the founding members - had abandoned the ESL.

"They have taken some time for reflection, just like the 12 clubs. If we need to make changes we will but the Super League is the best project we've thought of," Perez said.

"What we have done is taken a few weeks to reflect in light of the fury of certain people who don't want to lose their privileges and have manipulated the project."

Perez said on Thursday - in the aftermath of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham's withdrawing - that the ESL was still on "standby".

La Liga club Atletico Madrid and Italian sides AC Milan and Inter Milan have also formally pulled out, while Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli admitted the project could no longer proceed.

The 12-team Super League was announced on Sunday to widespread condemnation and has since prompted large protests outside grounds in England.

 

[Manunited18]

Interesting that the idea went down like the biggest lead balloon in history in England, Germany, and France; whereas there are Italian and particularly Spanish clubs whom are determined to hang on — and specifically it is Juventus, Barcelona and Real Madrid who are still trying to promote this gigantic travesty, the three European clubs which have long been reputed as the dodgiest, dirtiest, and most institutionally corrupt of all football clubs.

Bayern, Dortmund, PSG never joined the bandwagon from the off , so credit to these clubs.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Bayern, Dortmund, PSG never joined the bandwagon from the off , so credit to these clubs.

For PSG its because of the World Cup. Had they launched the Super League in 2023 i think they would have been more open to join.

 

[Greenstorm]

It is interesting that none of Zidane, Messi, Ronaldo commented on this.

I wonder what their reaction would have been had this move gone through.

 

[WC-Passion]

No way will Fifa ban the players. Its just a bluff.

Well I guess we'll never know at this point, but I'm sure they'll all be welcomed back with open arms now.

Indeed and it's worth recalling the Premier League itself was a breakaway league - much like now the Big Clubs split from the English Football League in 1992.

Now it didn't abandon promotion and relegation, but it created the boom that's responsible for the hyperinflated salaries and TV rights we see today.

Yeah the premier league is no good guy in here, it's just the lesser of two evils. You could argue its formation gave the idea that stuff like the ESL could be okay in the future.

I echo your words as a felloe Blue. Pretty frustrated with the decision. However I don't agree that all world class players will miss out if Fifa uphold it's ban. Bayern and PSG are still not budging so are several other clubs . Even in domestics Leicester, Everton, Porto, Lyon, Ajax have tons of world class players and talents, so it's a wrong statement that these twelve clubs have all the class players. Nothing against Arsenal but other than Auba who is WC in that team? Other than Kane and Son who is world claas in current form in Tottenham? Same goes for Milan. So it's not that straightforward how these 12 clubs will like all to believe.

Basically echo what i said at the start of this post in reply to the other poster, but I think it would've been FIFA's only card to play to make players revolt from the idea to be honest.

 

[ChTab]

European Super League: There must be consequences for 'big six' - Richard Scudamore

There must be consequences for the six English clubs who tried to join the ill-fated European Super League, according to former Premier League executive chairman Richard Scudamore.

He said the decision from those sides to join the controversial league had changed English football forever.

Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham all withdrew from plans last week.

"I don't believe life will ever be the same after last Sunday," he said.

All six Premier league sides withdrew from the plans on Tuesday, 20 April, after widespread criticism and protests. It was just 48 hours after the plans were announced. Prime Minister Boris Johnson was among those who criticised the league publicly.

Speaking to Gary Neville's The Overlap YouTube channel, Scudamore, 61, who ran the top division for 19 years, added: "I think the actions of the six have altered the dynamic forever. There has to be some consequences. Things have to change.

"There is no switch you can turn that suddenly builds back trust with these people and the fan base. It is a long and difficult road back. After a period of some healing, we have to rebuild this thing.

"I cannot explain why any of them thought it was a good idea. I am the person who had been telling them for years it was a crazy idea and could not happen. What's happened in the last week is that it's been stopped and that's the right thing.

"Anyone who knows me would know I found this completely unacceptable.

"There has to be some consequences. I think something will have to be extracted by way of undertakings or attitude. I am not going to get involved about whether there should be punishments or sanctions."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56937159

 

[Mamoon]

The ESL will eventually happen and fan pressure will not always work. People are simply being excessively emotional at this point because when the dust settles and tournament is underway, the same people who are threatening to boycott their clubs would be the one in the stadiums or will be flouted to their TVs.

Moreover, this FIFA ban stuff will never happen in a million years and neither will the Premier League have the cojones to relegate its six biggest cash cows. It is just a drama to please the fans.

The virtue signaling surrounding the ESL is nauseating. You cannot help but feel that a lot of these players and ex-players like Neville and Carragher are actually afraid of speaking their minds and are opposing the ESL simply because they are afraid of facing backlash from the fans.

The same Neville and Carragher would be doing match-days shows in the ESL if there is a lucrative contract on the table.

I am actually surprised at how quickly the ESL administration bottled it. They showed no spine at all and caved under pressure within a day.

Had they called the bluff of the anti-ESL camp and went on with it, they would have been able to initiate the tournament next season without facing any of the ramifications that they are now being threatened with it.

 

[shaz619]

The ESL will eventually happen and fan pressure will not always work. People are simply being excessively emotional at this point because when the dust settles and tournament is underway, the same people who are threatening to boycott their clubs would be the one in the stadiums or will be flouted to their TVs.

Moreover, this FIFA ban stuff will never happen in a million years and neither will the Premier League have the cojones to relegate its six biggest cash cows. It is just a drama to please the fans.

The virtue signaling surrounding the ESL is nauseating. You cannot help but feel that a lot of these players and ex-players like Neville and Carragher are actually afraid of speaking their minds and are opposing the ESL simply because they are afraid of facing backlash from the fans.

The same Neville and Carragher would be doing match-days shows in the ESL if there is a lucrative contract on the table.

I am actually surprised at how quickly the ESL administration bottled it. They showed no spine at all and caved under pressure within a day.

Had they called the bluff of the anti-ESL camp and went on with it, they would have been able to initiate the tournament next season without facing any of the ramifications that they are now being threatened with it.

It’s not just the fans but leading political figures in the UK, I don’t see a situation here which threatens the future of the premier league which is a part of our culture, I don’t know if other countries will feel the same way though

 

[Mamoon]

It’s not just the fans but leading political figures in the UK, I don’t see a situation here which threatens the future of the premier league which is a part of our culture, I don’t know if other countries will feel the same way though

The culture of English football was destroyed with the creation of the Premier League itself. The separation of the “premier” league from the first division in 1992 to take advantage of these exclusive tv rights deal was simply the first step towards the capitalistic expansion of football and the ESL is the next step.

The Premier League feels threatened because its own hypocrisy has been exposed. They are no ones to toe the line of capitalistic expansion and if the big and rich clubs of England decide that the ESL is beneficial for them, they will eventually have their way.

Maybe the leading political figures and other former players who are earning brownie points with their forced virtue signaling and look closer to home by criticizing the formation of the Premier League in the first place.

It allowed the Premier League clubs to tap into the Asian market and this led to billionaires taking over clubs and buying trophies. It was against the spirit of English football and forever disadvantaged teams in the lower division and deprived their fans from lifting the league title forever.

Clubs like Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Ipswich Town, Derby County, who all lifted the English league title, were forever deprived from lifting the first division title because the bigger clubs got richer and richer due to their capitalism.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The ESL will eventually happen and fan pressure will not always work. People are simply being excessively emotional at this point because when the dust settles and tournament is underway, the same people who are threatening to boycott their clubs would be the one in the stadiums or will be flouted to their TVs.

Moreover, this FIFA ban stuff will never happen in a million years and neither will the Premier League have the cojones to relegate its six biggest cash cows. It is just a drama to please the fans.

The virtue signaling surrounding the ESL is nauseating. You cannot help but feel that a lot of these players and ex-players like Neville and Carragher are actually afraid of speaking their minds and are opposing the ESL simply because they are afraid of facing backlash from the fans.

The same Neville and Carragher would be doing match-days shows in the ESL if there is a lucrative contract on the table.

I am actually surprised at how quickly the ESL administration bottled it. They showed no spine at all and caved under pressure within a day.

Had they called the bluff of the anti-ESL camp and went on with it, they would have been able to initiate the tournament next season without facing any of the ramifications that they are now being threatened with it.

They could not call the bluff as Man City withdrew, as they were skeptical about the project in the first place, which led to the other English clubs withdrawing. Not to mention that PSG and Bayern refused to join.

 

[Firebat]

Manchester United fans have broken out onto the pitch at Old Trafford ahead of this afternoon's match against Liverpool in protest against the club's owners' attempt to join the European Super League

 

[Firebat]

Manchester United anti-Glazer protestors break into Old Trafford and protest on pitch

Manchester United fans have broken into Old Trafford and are protesting on the pitch after resuming their fight against the Glazer family's ownership ahead of Sunday's clash with Liverpool.

Fans also gathered outside the team's hotel - The Lowry Hotel in Manchester, where the United team are staying before the game - ahead of Sunday's match at Old Trafford, where 10,000 are expected to congregate.

Many United supporters are still angry and upset over their club's role as one of the founder members of the proposed breakaway European Super League.

United's game against Liverpool is scheduled to start at 4.30pm, live on Sky Sports. If United lose the match then Manchester City will be crowned champions with four games to go.

United owner Joel Glazer, unveiled as Super League vice-chairman when the bombshell announcement was made, apologised in an open letter to all of the club's fans after the they were forced to pull out of the plans.

However, that apology seems to have been rebuffed by the club's supporter base who protested outside Old Trafford last week which followed even more protesting at United's training ground, Carrington.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer says United fans have a right to voice their anger about the European Super League and the protests have not stopped there, with 10,000 in total expected to turn up outside Old Trafford on Sunday.

Last month, a small group of United fans gained access to the club's Carrington training ground after blocking both entrances to the facilities in protest against the plans to form a breakaway competition.

Around 20 protestors, carrying banners, accessed Carrington, and made their way towards the reception of the training complex and to the first-team training area but did not enter any buildings. Police were called to the training ground.

Solskjaer was joined by assistant manager Michael Carrick, technical director Darren Fletcher and midfielder Nemanja Matic in addressing the fans, who then dispersed.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-break-into-old-trafford-and-protest-on-pitch

 

[Firebat]

European Super League: Premier League brings in new owners' rule to stop repeat

The Premier League is to bring in a new owners' charter to stop future attempts to join a breakaway Super League.

It follows Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester City and Tottenham agreeing to join the failed European Super League last month.

All owners will have to sign up to the new rule "committing them to the core principles" of the league with breaches punished by "significant" sanctions.

The league said "a few clubs cannot be allowed to create such division".

The Super League proposal, which also included some of Europe's biggest clubs, collapsed within 72 hours after widespread criticism from fans, players and governing bodies and politicians.

The Premier League said it is "determined" to "hold those clubs accountable for their decisions and actions".

"We and the FA are pursuing these objectives quickly and appropriately, consulting with fans and government," it said.

The Premier League also said it would introduce "additional rules and regulation to ensure the principles of the Premier League and open competition are protected".

It said it is seeking help from the government to bring in legislation to protect the football pyramid and "the integrity of the football community".

"The events of the last two weeks have challenged the foundations and resolve of English football," the Premier League said.

"These measures are designed to stop the threat of breakaway leagues in the future."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56972776

 

[MenInG]

Nine of the original Super League clubs - including the Premier League's 'Big Six' - have declared their commitment to UEFA and its competitions at continental and domestic level.

However, the three who have not renounced the Super League - Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus - are set to face "appropriate action" under UEFA's disciplinary action.

The 12 clubs announced themselves as founder members of the breakaway league on April 18, but within 72 hours it had fallen apart with the English clubs withdrawing after fan protests and Government pressure.

Max stake varies. See bet slip for details. Odds subject to fluctuation. Further T&Cs apply. 18+
The clubs will make a combined 15m euro (just over £13m) goodwill contribution to benefit children's and grassroots football across Europe.

They will also have five per cent of UEFA competition revenues withheld for one season. This money will be redistributed.

They face fines of 100m euros (almost £87m) each if they seek to join an unauthorised competition in the future, and a fine of half that if they breach any other terms of the declaration, UEFA said in a statement.

They will also rejoin the influential lobbying group the European Club Association.

A spokesperson for Manchester United confirmed the Glazer family would personally cover their club's share of the goodwill money requested and the withheld funds.

It is expected that the amount the Glazers would be liable for is between five and 10 million euros.

UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin said: "I said at the UEFA Congress two weeks ago that it takes a strong organisation to admit making a mistake especially in these days of trial by social media. These clubs have done just that.

"In accepting their commitments and willingness to repair the disruption they caused, UEFA wants to put this chapter behind it and move forward in a positive spirit.

"The measures announced are significant, but none of the financial penalties will be retained by UEFA. They will all be reinvested into youth and grassroots football in local communities across Europe, including the UK.

"These clubs recognised their mistakes quickly and have taken action to demonstrate their contrition and future commitment to European football. The same cannot be said for the clubs that remain involved in the so-called 'Super League' and UEFA will deal with those clubs subsequently."

On those clubs - Real, Barca and Juve - the tone was strikingly different in UEFA's statement.

"UEFA has reserved all rights to take whatever action it deems appropriate against those clubs that have so far refused to renounce the so-called 'Super League'," the statement concluded.

"The matter will promptly be referred to the competent UEFA disciplinary bodies."

SKY

 

[ChTab]

Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Juventus have defended their European Super League plans in the face of what they call "threats" from Uefa.

They are the only clubs from the initial 12 yet to withdraw from the proposed ESL, and face disciplinary action from Europe's governing body.

The nine other clubs involved, including six Premier League sides, have been given a financial punishment.

"The founding clubs have suffered," a Real, Barca and Juve statement said.

 

[ChTab]

European Super League: Juventus told they face Serie A expulsion

Juventus have been told they face expulsion from Serie A if they remain part of the European Super League.

The Turin club, along with Barcelona and Real Madrid, are yet to withdraw from the proposed breakaway league.

Italian federation president Gabriele Gravina said: "If Juventus does not respect the rules they will be out.

"At the time of registration for the next Serie A championship the club will be excluded if they decide not to withdraw from the Super League."

Juve, Barca and Real continue to be committed to the project, and last week defended their involvement in the breakaway league in the face of what they call "threats" from Uefa.

But pressure is mounting on Serie A club Juve to withdraw.

"We are all a bit tired of this tug-of-war between Uefa and these three clubs," said Gravina. "I hope this dispute can be resolved as soon as possible. I hope to be able to mediate between Juventus and Uefa.

"The rules foresee the non-participation in our championship if the principles established by the federation and Uefa are not accepted.

"It's not good for international football, Italian football, Juventus. We have already said that the football association respects the rules."

The ESL was announced on 18 April but within 48 hours the plans had fallen apart with the English clubs withdrawing after fan protests and UK government pressure.

The nine clubs who withdrew from the competition have been given a financial punishment by Uefa.

Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal, along with AC Milan, Inter Milan and Atletico Madrid, also committed to the European governing body and its competitions.

They have agreed to make a combined 15m euro (£13.4m) goodwill contribution to benefit children's and grassroots football across Europe.

bbc.com/sport/football/57061939

 

[OMB]

He's right about young people not being interested in football or sports or even playing on streets or amateur level for that matter.

Young kids have definetly moved towards gaming, consoles, mobile apps , online gaming, watching streams movies , social media tik tok , YouTube Facebook , etc

The kids who play on consoles know about players histories and transfer signing amounts and more..
More than we knew when we were there age and singing praises about Maradonas, Bergkamps, Gullits etc.

I dont think this remains an issue as online games only caught up due to lockdown.

 

[Firebat]

European Super League: Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus under UEFA investigation for involvement in breakaway plans

Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus face a two-season Champions League ban unless they withdraw from the European Super League and sign a settlement agreement with UEFA.

A disciplinary investigation has been opened by UEFA against the three clubs in connection to their involvement with the European Super League project.

The trio are the only clubs from the original 12 involved in the breakaway plans yet to formally withdraw.

The nine clubs who pulled out of the European Super League - including Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham - signed the Club Commitment Declaration with UEFA on Friday.

UEFA is confident the three rebel clubs, who have won 20 European Cups between them, will be forced to sign up soon.

The prospect of disciplinary action appeared inevitable last Friday when a statement confirming the peace accord with nine of the clubs ended: "UEFA has reserved all rights to take whatever action it deems appropriate against those clubs that have so far refused to renounce the so-called 'Super League'.

"The matter will promptly be referred to the competent UEFA disciplinary bodies."

The breakaway league was abandoned within 72 hours of its announcement last month amid considerable fan protests, Government pressure, and player and manager rejection.

On Saturday, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus hit out at "intolerable" pressure and threats to abandon the European Super League project, and vowed to "persevere" with the idea despite its considerable rejection.

Their statement read: "The founding clubs have suffered, and continue to suffer, unacceptable third-party pressures, threats, and offenses to abandon the project and therefore desist from their right and duty to provide solutions to the football ecosystem via concrete proposals and constructive dialogue.

"This is intolerable under the rule of law and tribunals have already ruled in favour of the Super League proposal, ordering FIFA and UEFA to, either directly or through their affiliated bodies, refrain from taking any action which may hinder this initiative in any way while court proceedings are pending."

Juventus, who are in danger of missing out on the Champions League next season, have been warned by the Italian football federation they will be expelled from Serie A unless they withdraw from the proposed breakaway league.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...estigation-for-involvement-in-breakaway-plans

 

[OMB]

‘Time to act’: Former players demand independent regulator for football

Neville and Lineker help launch government petition
Action urged in response to failed ESL breakaway



A number of leading voices within football, including Micah Richards, Gary Lineker and Gary Neville, have a launched a campaign to secure an independent regulator for the English game.

On Monday, the collection of former players, pundits and media figures, urged supporters to sign a government petition in the hope of building momentum for change. It comes ahead of Tracey Crouch’s fan-led review of the game, launched in the aftermath of the failed European Super League plot.

“As football fans, we were appalled by the attempt to set up a European Super League,” the 22 signatories said in an open letter to accompany the petition. “It was a direct threat to the integrity of the game; destroying the concept of sporting merit and open competition.

“Now we must make sure this never happens again. Without swift and direct intervention, the return of a European Super League will be a constant threat.

“It is time to act. We support: Government legislation to block any Premier League clubs attempting to abandon the country’s football pyramid; The appointment of an Independent Football Regulator.”

Please see an Open Joint Letter https://t.co/O3eHaOJecN

Please sign & share the petition to help create a fairer football for all https://t.co/fHrqDGhVKx

Here’s my video for you to share if you like@Carra23 @rioferdy5 [MENTION=1140]gary[/MENTION]Lineker @laura_woodsy [MENTION=19651]Jana[/MENTION]ageFjortoft [MENTION=48330]Henry[/MENTION]winter pic.twitter.com/Betpq9JvOm

— Gary Neville (@GNev2) May 17, 2021

The subject of a regulator for the game is first on the list of terms and references for Crouch’s review. The letter calls for a body that would “represent the interests of supporters, protect against bad practices… and seek to prioritise the wider good of the game”.

The FA already nominally acts as a regulator for much of the game, and the idea of an independent regulator is controversial amongst the most powerful figures in football.

The Premier League’s chief executive, Richard Masters, has already expressed his opposition to any regulator.

“I think given what’s happened I don’t think we should be averse to change in the regulatory environment around football but I don’t think that the independent regulator is the answer to the question”, he said.

“I would defend the Premier League’s role as regulator of its clubs over the past 30 years. Clearly we’ve had some problems over the last 18 months, but so has every industry.”

Launched at 9am, at the time of writing the petition already had 30,000 signatures.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/may/17/time-to-act-former-players-demand-independent-regulator-for-football

 

[ChTab]

Liverpool to launch ‘supporters board’ in response to ESL protests

Liverpool will launch a new “supporters board” in the wake of the toxic backlash from their involvement in the European Super League.

The club, who were heavily criticised because of the ESL proposal, have responded by holding talks with fan groups, including Spirit of Shankly, and have now agreed to the creation of a board that Liverpool say will offer “meaningful fan representation at executive levels”.

The “supporters board” will be launched before next season and will hold regular meetings with the club and be invited to attend the main board meetings when “fan-facing strategic matters arise”.

Billy Hogan, Liverpool’s chief executive, said: “Firstly I’d like to thank all those supporters we’ve either met in person from the Liverpool Supporters Trust or received feedback from over the past few weeks. This input has been invaluable and has helped us to reach a point at which we have been able to agree the principles that will lead to the creation of a new supporters board.

“The focus over the last few weeks of dialogue has been to find a long-term solution that is in the best interests of Liverpool FC and its supporters – one that we firmly believe is not only meaningful but also wholly in keeping with the values and aspirations of the club.
“There is still a lot to discuss with representatives of the Liverpool Supporters Trust in the weeks ahead but having these principles in place is a great step forward and we look forward to formalising the details of the structure over the summer. We will then share the details with all supporters ahead of the new season.”

Joe Blott, chair of Spirit of Shankly, the Liverpool Supporters Trust, said: “After discussions of the past weeks, we believe this is a unique deal and recommend its acceptance. We see this as a chance to help shape the future of our club and put us at the forefront of changing football in general.”

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-supporters-board-in-response-to-esl-protests

 

[ChTab]

UEFA opens disciplinary proceedings against Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus

According to Goal España, UEFA has opened disciplinary proceedings against Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus.

UEFA has taken a step closer to sanctioning Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus for the creation of the Super League. The European body has announced in a statement that it has opened “disciplinary proceedings” against the clubs.

“Following an investigation conducted by UEFA Ethics and Disciplinary Inspectors in connection with the so-called ‘Super League’ project, disciplinary proceedings have been opened against Real Madrid, Barcelona & Juventus for a potential violation of UEFA’s legal framework,” reads the statement.

https://onefootball.com/en/news/uef...t-real-madrid-barcelona-and-juventus-33070620

 

[MenInG]

Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus released a joint statement on Wednesday saying they would not bow down to pressure from European soccer governing body UEFA to put an end to their attempts to launch a breakaway Super League.

The clubs are the only three of the original 12 to have not distanced themselves from the project following fierce criticism from fans, soccer governing bodies and even governments.

UEFA opened disciplinary proceedings against the three clubs on Tuesday but the teams said they rejected the "insistent coercion" the body has maintained while the matter is still in court.

A Madrid court has asked the European Court of Justice to establish if FIFA and UEFA are breaching EU competition law by preventing clubs from creating a breakaway European Super League.

A statement issued on Barcelona's website read: "This alarming attitude constitutes a flagrant breach of the decision of the courts of justice, which have already made a clear statement warning UEFA to refrain from taking any action that could penalise the founding clubs of the Super League while the legal proceedings are ongoing.

"Therefore, the opening of disciplinary proceedings by UEFA is incomprehensible and is a direct attack against the rule of law... while constituting a lack of respect toward the authority of the courts of justice themselves.

"Instead of exploring ways of modernizing football through open dialogue, UEFA expects us to withdraw the ongoing court proceedings that question their monopoly over European football."

The Super League was launched with 12 clubs as founding members but Manchester United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Chelsea, Tottenham Hotspur, Arsenal, AC Milan, Inter Milan and Atletico Madrid have since backed out and reached a deal with UEFA.

The statement added: "Barcelona, Juventus and Real Madrid, all of them more than a century old, will not accept any form of coercion or intolerable pressure, while they remain strong in their willingness to debate, respectfully and through dialogue, the urgent solutions that football currently needs.

"Either we reform football or we will have to watch its inevitable downfall."

SKY

 

[MenInG]

Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd and Spurs will pay a combined sum of just over £20m to the Premier League; 'Big Six' reach settlement over plan to join failed Super League in April; clubs will face heavy fines and points deductions if they sign up to similar plans in future

 

[Bhaijaan]

Money has ruined Football.

I am not a big fan of even the existing structure where you have 2 clubs dominating Spain, 1 in Germany, 1-2 in Italy.

As an average citizen, I have a greater agenda against this ridiculous wage gap across sports where some select athletes in select sports earn ridiculous amounts of money, while some earn average and the remaining cannot even sustain a decent lifestyle through sport.

 

[Bhaijaan]

If success can be bought though Super teams, it's not sport in my eyes. It's something else and I want to stay as far away from it as I can.

 

[ChTab]

UEFA suspend disciplinary proceedings on Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus

European football’s governing body UEFA has suspended disciplinary proceedings into Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus.

The three clubs were among the 12 founding members of the so-called European Super League – a proposal which was announced in April but swiftly fell apart as the nine other clubs pulled out.

England’s ‘big six’ clubs of Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham all withdrew from the plans, while Milan, Inter and Atletico Madrid also confirmed they would no longer be part of the project.

In spite of this, the trio of Madrid, Barca and Juve all continued to support the competition, which would theoretically replace the UEFA-run tournament of the Champions League.

It had been suggested that there would be a two-year ban from Europe’s premier club competition for each of the three clubs, due to their insistence to back the proposals, alongside a heavy fine.

However, a statement on Wednesday confirmed that there would be a ‘stay in proceedings’ over the investigation – meaning that the process would be suspended, if not halted indefinitely.

The statement read: “Following the opening of disciplinary proceedings against FC Barcelona, Juventus FC and Real Madrid CF for a potential violation of UEFA’s legal framework in connection with the so-called ‘Super League’ project, the UEFA Appeals Body has decided to stay the proceedings until further notice.”

https://onefootball.com/en/news/uef...n-real-madrid-barcelona-and-juventus-33158193

 

[Firebat]

Juventus, Barcelona and Real Madrid have been admitted to next season's Champions League despite their involvement in the proposed breakaway European Super League.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Barcelona, Juventus and Real Madrid have vowed to carry on with plans for a European Super League after winning an important court battle with UEFA.

 

[PakLFC]

A super league without top English clubs won't be very successful. Even if top clubs from other countries succeed it will take them years to get this project started. Top English clubs seem to have lost interest since the FA threatened them with dire consequences. The uproar then by fans should have been enough to tell British clubs to stay away from the Europa League thing.

 

[Firebat]

The Premier League's 'big six' are among nine Super League founder members who have officially rejoined the European Club Association.

The six - along with AC Milan, Inter Milan and Atletico Madrid - are now back in the ECA fold after resigning to form the breakaway Super League in April.

The news follows on from the announcement of a 'peace agreement' between UEFA and those nine clubs back in May.