Should Allama Iqbal Day be a national holiday in Pakistan? Shahid Afridi disagrees

[MenInG]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1060484184198823937

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Yes. The founding father.

 

[Pakistanian]

Rich people that don't work always have the most to say.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Agree with lala on this one. We should run workshops on his poetry so that the future Khadim Rizvis stop referring to his poetry to pursue their evil agendas.

 

[hussain.r97]

Agree with lala on this one. We should run workshops on his poetry so that the future Khadim Rizvis stop referring to his poetry to pursue their evil agendas.

I would argue that Allama Iqbal's ideology, life, and poetry should be taught as a part of the school curriculum, it should be it's own module. Don't need a specific day to do it, it should be a given.

 

[Mian]

Thank You Iqbal for the two nation theory. Today exactly on your birthday it's proving to be right once again!

 

[Captain caveman]

Personally, i would like it to be celebrated by releasing millions of green balloons with the logo 'PAKISTAN ZINDABAD! On both our east and west borders.

 

[Mamoon]

Thank You Iqbal for the two nation theory. Today exactly on your birthday it's proving to be right once again!

Two Nation Theory was disproved in 1971.

 

[Captain caveman]

Two Nation Theory was disproved in 1971.

Just think about what you have written, you will see that you are contradicting yourself.

 

[Mamoon]

Just think about what you have written, you will see that you are contradicting yourself.

Explain. You are smarter than me.

 

[Captain caveman]

Explain. You are smarter than me.

I wish, you are a very intelligent young man, a doctor,.
Anyway, the 2 nation theory failed in your opinion in 1971, but pakistan was divided into two in 1971, which most people here i think, would say is a good thing.
Unless, you think dividing india into two and then in 1971, subsequently, dividing one of those lands into two again is a sign of failure? I would say its a sign of progress and ultimately, in the long run, a sign of success.

 

[Captain caveman]

I wish, you are a very intelligent young man, a doctor,.
Anyway, the 2 nation theory failed in your opinion in 1971, but pakistan was divided into two in 1971, which most people here i think, would say is a good thing.
Unless, you think dividing india into two and then in 1971, subsequently, dividing one of those lands into two again is a sign of failure? I would say its a sign of progress and ultimately, in the long run, a sign of success.

The contradiction part is that bangaldesh was formed via a two state theory, pakistan being divided into two in 1971, therefore it would be a contradiction to say that the two state theory died in 1971.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=149691]Captain caveman[/MENTION]

The Two Nation Theory’s fundamental belief was that Muslims and Hindus of the subcontinent are two distinct nations that cannot live together in harmony. However, what the proponents of the Two Nation Theory failed to consider was that even Muslims cannot live together in harmony when there are ethnocultural differences.

They overestimated the significance of religion as a binding force and wrongly assumed that the identity of being Muslims would overcome cultural, ethnic and social differences. Between 1947 and 1971, West Pakistan discriminated against East Pakistan on multiple grounds and their status as Muslims was not enough for us to consider them as our equals.

The Two Nation Theory would have been validated had West and East Pakistan managed to live together in harmony, proving that no matter how you look, what language you speak or what your ethnicity is - as long as you are Muslims, you will be able to live together as one nation.

Pakistan takes great pride in the legacy of M. Jinnah, Allama Iqbal, Sir Syed as well as early proponents like Sheikh Ahmed Sirhindi, but what they don’t realize is that they have completely undermined their core beliefs by looking down on the people of East Pakistan because they were short, dark, skinny, and spoke a language that we considered inferior to Urdu.

 

[Captain caveman]

[MENTION=149691]Captain caveman[/MENTION]

The Two Nation Theory’s fundamental belief was that Muslims and Hindus of the subcontinent are two distinct nations that cannot live together in harmony. However, what the proponents of the Two Nation Theory failed to consider was that even Muslims cannot live together in harmony when there are ethnocultural differences.

They overestimated the significance of religion as a binding force and wrongly assumed that the identity of being Muslims would overcome cultural, ethnic and social differences. Between 1947 and 1971, West Pakistan discriminated against East Pakistan on multiple grounds and their status as Muslims was not enough for us to consider them as our equals.

The Two Nation Theory would have been validated had West and East Pakistan managed to live together in harmony, proving that no matter how you look, what language you speak or what your ethnicity is - as long as you are Muslims, you will be able to live together as one nation.

Pakistan takes great pride in the legacy of M. Jinnah, Allama Iqbal, Sir Syed as well as early proponents like Sheikh Ahmed Sirhindi, but what they don’t realize is that they have completely undermined their core beliefs by looking down on the people of East Pakistan because they were short, dark, skinny, and spoke a language that we considered inferior to Urdu.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Yes i know the two nation theory was to establish a muslim homeland, but if you take the idea generally, of two nation theory or two state solution as it is refered to with the palestinians/israelis, its fundamentally seperating two different and oppossing groups that live on the same piece of land but cannot live together due to hostlity between the two groups.
So when you said that the two nation theory failed in 1971, it comes as a contradiction, because it did not fail, it repeated itself, with the separation of west and east pakistan) into two seperate states.

I understand what you are saying that the one single homeland for muslims was unsuccessful as it was split further into two, but geopolitical/geographical solutions are not absolute and may need to be adjusted further.
However, the fundamental idea of separating two hostile groups into seperate states/nations will always be the best solution, you may require further separations in the future but thats because no religion or race will be completely encompassed in one group of people, its trying to get to that lowest common denminator that makes the two nation theory or two state solution , the best and hence most successful solution.

 

[Captain caveman]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Yes i know the two nation theory was to establish a muslim homeland, but if you take the idea generally, of two nation theory or two state solution as it is refered to with the palestinians/israelis, its fundamentally seperating two different and oppossing groups that live on the same piece of land but cannot live together due to hostlity between the two groups.
So when you said that the two nation theory failed in 1971, it comes as a contradiction, because it did not fail, it repeated itself, with the separation of west and east pakistan) into two seperate states.

I understand what you are saying that the one single homeland for muslims was unsuccessful as it was split further into two, but geopolitical/geographical solutions are not absolute and may need to be adjusted further.
However, the fundamental idea of separating two hostile groups into seperate states/nations will always be the best solution, you may require further separations in the future but thats because no religion or race will be completely encompassed in one group of people, its trying to get to that lowest common denminator that makes the two nation theory or two state solution , the best and hence most successful solution.

*denominator

 

[miandadrules]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Yes i know the two nation theory was to establish a muslim homeland, but if you take the idea generally, of two nation theory or two state solution as it is refered to with the palestinians/israelis, its fundamentally seperating two different and oppossing groups that live on the same piece of land but cannot live together due to hostlity between the two groups.
So when you said that the two nation theory failed in 1971, it comes as a contradiction, because it did not fail, it repeated itself, with the separation of west and east pakistan) into two seperate states.

I understand what you are saying that the one single homeland for muslims was unsuccessful as it was split further into two, but geopolitical/geographical solutions are not absolute and may need to be adjusted further.
However, the fundamental idea of separating two hostile groups into seperate states/nations will always be the best solution, you may require further separations in the future but thats because no religion or race will be completely encompassed in one group of people, its trying to get to that lowest common denminator that makes the two nation theory or two state solution , the best and hence most successful solution.

In summary:

Pathetic justification for heinous crimes.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Yes i know the two nation theory was to establish a muslim homeland, but if you take the idea generally, of two nation theory or two state solution as it is refered to with the palestinians/israelis, its fundamentally seperating two different and oppossing groups that live on the same piece of land but cannot live together due to hostlity between the two groups.
So when you said that the two nation theory failed in 1971, it comes as a contradiction, because it did not fail, it repeated itself, with the separation of west and east pakistan) into two seperate states.

I understand what you are saying that the one single homeland for muslims was unsuccessful as it was split further into two, but geopolitical/geographical solutions are not absolute and may need to be adjusted further.
However, the fundamental idea of separating two hostile groups into seperate states/nations will always be the best solution, you may require further separations in the future but thats because no religion or race will be completely encompassed in one group of people, its trying to get to that lowest common denminator that makes the two nation theory or two state solution , the best and hence most successful solution.

How did it repeat itself? The grounds on which Bangladesh became an independent state had absolutely nothing to do with the Two Nation Theory.

The Two Nation Theory ignored cultural, ethnic and social differences and believed that the binding force of religion would be overwhelming enough to make up for all the differences. That belief proved to be spectacularly wrong because of our bigotry.

 

[Captain caveman]

How did it repeat itself? The grounds on which Bangladesh became an independent state had absolutely nothing to do with the Two Nation Theory.

The Two Nation Theory ignored cultural, ethnic and social differences and believed that the binding force of religion would be overwhelming enough to make up for all the differences. That belief proved to be spectacularly wrong because of our bigotry.

The idea behind the two nation theory was not a brand new concept, it was just a name given to splitting up a piece of land between two opposing factions living on that one piece of land.
You guys are taking the schematics of a label and trying to make it an unique entity, when in fact dividing land up is almost as old as mankind.

 

[Captain caveman]

In summary:

Pathetic justification for heinous crimes.

WHAT?
whoses justifying any crimes?

 

[Captain caveman]

Just going to post this and then i have other things to do today.
People on here seem to think the two nstion theory failed becsuse of bangladesh independence. However the two nation theory was based on whlich state was majority muslim, being all

 

[Captain caveman]

Just going to post this and then i have other things to do today.
People on here seem to think the two nstion theory failed becsuse of bangladesh independence. However the two nation theory was based on whlich state was majority muslim, being all

Continue...
Allocated to pakistan and the majority non hindu states to be allocated to india.
Nehru refused to allow muslim kajority punjab and muslim majority bengal to be transferred to pakistan. Punjab was split hetween india and pakistan, but the sheer location of modern day banglad

 

[Mamoon]

The idea behind the two nation theory was not a brand new concept, it was just a name given to splitting up a piece of land between two opposing factions living on that one piece of land.
You guys are taking the schematics of a label and trying to make it an unique entity, when in fact dividing land up is almost as old as mankind.

Dividing land on the basis of religion is actually a new concept, and the failure of Pakistan is strong evidence for why it is a flawed concept.

 

[miandadrules]

WHAT?
whoses justifying any crimes?

Sure.

Your posts have been nothing but poor attempt at minimising the horrors committed by our troops.

And now apologetics for the failure of the two nation theory, purely based on prejudice of the Pakistani elites.

 

[kk1992]

Dividing land on the basis of religion is actually a new concept, and the failure of Pakistan is strong evidence for why it is a flawed concept.

So tomorrow Pakistan economy gets better, unemployment rate drops and rise in middle class will still be consider a failure?

You stretch an ridiculous argument just to be correct is insane.

People call you here intelligent, I don't see it when you keep making ridiculous argument.

Pakistan isn't a failed nation if Pakistan can come out of current economy issues that Pakistan is facing due to corrupt government.

 

[Major]

Pakistan already has too many holidays.

Eid holidays are 1 week no work. Than 1st week of November is protest month in which roads are closed due so protest happening each year.

Iqbal day needs to be made, but by having some activity being conducted.

Closing schools down and everything just means nothing.

 

[Mamoon]

So tomorrow Pakistan economy gets better, unemployment rate drops and rise in middle class will still be consider a failure?

You stretch an ridiculous argument just to be correct is insane.

People call you here intelligent, I don't see it when you keep making ridiculous argument.

Pakistan isn't a failed nation if Pakistan can come out of current economy issues that Pakistan is facing due to corrupt government.

If that happens I would stop calling Pakistan a failure.

 

[kk1992]

If that happens I would stop calling Pakistan a failure.

So in 60' Pakistan was not a failure but now it is and that has to do with dividing India in 1947.

See how insanely ridiculous your argument is.

You make more switch moves than a salsa dance performer.

A tell tell sign of someone who cherry pick an argument to display their agenda.

 

[AdamM97]

Pakistan already has too many holidays.

Eid holidays are 1 week no work. Than 1st week of November is protest month in which roads are closed due so protest happening each year.

Iqbal day needs to be made, but by having some activity being conducted.

Closing schools down and everything just means nothing.

Completely agree! Allama Iqbal would be much happier if Pakistanis worked an extra day or did something useful on Iqbal day instead of taking a day off. Stagnation leads to destruction.

 

[miandadrules]

So in 60' Pakistan was not a failure but now it is and that has to do with dividing India in 1947.

See how insanely ridiculous your argument is.

You make more switch moves than a salsa dance performer.

To be a failure you have to be one from inception?

 

[Captain caveman]

Sure.

Your posts have been nothing but poor attempt at minimising the horrors committed by our troops.

And now apologetics for the failure of the two nation theory, purely based on prejudice of the Pakistani elites.

You are talking rubbish!
I have done nothing of the sort, you are just reading things which havent been written!

 

[kk1992]

To be a failure you have to be one from inception?

No!

 

[Mamoon]

So in 60' Pakistan was not a failure but now it is and that has to do with dividing India in 1947.

See how insanely ridiculous your argument is.

You make more switch moves than a salsa dance performer.

Pakistan’s so-called economic boom under Ayub Khan in the 60s was down to U.S. funding for our mercenary role in the Cold War. It was not a sustainable model.

Pakistan will only succeed in the long-term when the civilian government becomes the central power in the country.

 

[miandadrules]

You are talking rubbish!
I have done nothing of the sort, you are just reading things which havent been written!

Yes, I’m the one talking rubbish.

Your posts are nothing but but apologetics for the state.

Save me your indignation.

 

[miandadrules]

So in 60' Pakistan was not a failure but now it is and that has to do with dividing India in 1947.

See how insanely ridiculous your argument is.

You make more switch moves than a salsa dance performer.

A tell tell sign of someone who cherry pick an argument to display their agenda.

To be a failure you have to be one from inception?

No!

Then care to explain what you meant in the post about Pakistan in the 60s?

 

[kk1992]

Pakistan’s so-called economic boom under Ayub Khan in the 60s was down to U.S. funding for our mercenary role in the Cold War. It was not a sustainable model.

Pakistan will only succeed in the long-term when the civilian government becomes the central power in the country.

No!

Where the money came from creating and enabling great mind does not matter.

Pakistan was not a socialist country in 60's where people were getting cheque mailed, Standard of education, living and other were better than today and in 60's as good as other developed countries.

Pakistan is not a failed nation, Pakistani is going through rough patch and fully capable of getting out of it on it's own, Haiti is a failed nation.

 

[Captain caveman]

Dividing land on the basis of religion is actually a new concept, and the failure of Pakistan is strong evidence for why it is a flawed concept.

Its not brother, theres many examples, but i will just highlight one, because i dont want to derail this thread -

1906 partition of ireland into northern ireland(anglicans) and southern ireland(catholics)

 

[Captain caveman]

Yes, I’m the one talking rubbish.

Your posts are nothing but but apologetics for the state.

Save me your indignation.

I dont apologise for no one but my own bad deeds nor do i cover up anyone elses bad deeds.
You really have comprehension issues, but if you feel so strongly about pakistani army atrocities, then please address the pakistani army about these and not me , as i am not in any way associated with the pakistani army!

 

[Captain caveman]

Pakistan’s so-called economic boom under Ayub Khan in the 60s was down to U.S. funding for our mercenary role in the Cold War. It was not a sustainable model.

Pakistan will only succeed in the long-term when the civilian government becomes the central power in the country.

Provided that the civilian government is economically competent

 

[Mamoon]

Its not brother, theres many examples, but i will just highlight one, because i dont want to derail this thread -

1906 partition of ireland into northern ireland(anglicans) and southern ireland(catholics)

That is not the point.

The point is that when you are bigot like Pakistan, diving a nation on religious grounds won’t work.

 

[Mamoon]

Provided that the civilian government is economically competent

It is not hard to be more competent than the Pakistan army, who not have won a single war that they have started and were handed over the “Azad” Kashmir by the northern tribals.

You just have to let democracy mature.

 

[kk1992]

It is not hard to be more competent than the Pakistan army, who not have won a single war that they have started and were handed over the “Azad” Kashmir by the northern tribals.

You just have to let democracy mature.

Exactly, stop supporting Mulana.

 

[miandadrules]

I dont apologise for no one but my own bad deeds nor do i cover up anyone elses bad deeds.
You really have comprehension issues, but if you feel so strongly about pakistani army atrocities, then please address the pakistani army about these and not me , as i am not in any way associated with the pakistani army!

You’ve been apologising in every post. Hence, why I told you to save me your indignation.

I’m sure I have comprehension issues but that doesn’t change my point.

I’ll take it up with whomever I like. I will definitely take it up with those that try to white wash history.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

No Pakistan has too many holidays as it as. The country cant afford it.

 

[Mamoon]

No!

Where the money came from creating and enabling great mind does not matter.

Pakistan was not a socialist country in 60's where people were getting cheque mailed, Standard of education, living and other were better than today and in 60's as good as other developed countries.

Pakistan is not a failed nation, Pakistani is going through rough patch and fully capable of getting out of it on it's own, Haiti is a failed nation.

It does matter, and that is why our economic boom of the 60s wasn’t sustained. The 70s and the 80s were a consequence of the 60s, a decade that kickstarted our decline that we haven’t recovered since.

 

[Mamoon]

Exactly, stop supporting Mulana.

And support the selected who came into power by doing the military’s bidding?

 

[kk1992]

You’ve been apologising in every post. Hence, why I told you to save me your indignation.

I’m sure I have comprehension issues but that doesn’t change my point.

I’ll take it up with whomever I like. I will definitely take it up with those that try to white wash history.

LOL,

Everyone is quite aware of History.

Is it safe to assume that you belong from Karachi and in past probably supported MQM?

 

[kk1992]

And support the selected who came into power by doing the military’s bidding?

If you believe democracy in Pakistan will mature without the help of Military then you are fooling yourself.

 

[Mamoon]

If you believe democracy in Pakistan will mature without the help of Military then you are fooling yourself.

That is the only way democracy can work. The military has to stop interfering in politics.

If you think Imran Khan can take Pakistan to new heights with the military calling the shots from the backdrop, you are the one who is fooling himself.

 

[kk1992]

It does matter, and that is why our economic boom of the 60s wasn’t sustained. The 70s and the 80s were a consequence of the 60s, a decade that kickstarted our decline that we haven’t recovered since.

Again, you are ignoring so many facts just because it does not fit your agenda.

 

[miandadrules]

LOL,

Everyone is quite aware of History.

Is it safe to assume that you belong from Karachi and in past probably supported MQM?

No you genius!

Sure, it certainly seems like everyone is aware of history. They just be blatant liars then.

I’m originally from Pindi.

Atheist.

I don’t support any of the corrupt institutions in Pakistan be they military or civilian. They, exploit the masses, while cretins such as yourself try to justify their actions.

Shows your level of inquisition, with that statement.

I think it’s safe to say that.

 

[Captain caveman]

That is not the point.

The point is that when you are bigot like Pakistan, diving a nation on religious grounds won’t work.

You think bigotry did not exist in ireland or any other land split on religious grounds

What are you trying to prove?

Nearly every country has its skeletons, sad as it is.
Humans can be the worst of creatures at times.

 

[miandadrules]

If you believe democracy in Pakistan will mature without the help of Military then you are fooling yourself.

Military is essential for democracy?

 

[miandadrules]

You think bigotry did not exist in ireland or any other land split on religious grounds

What are you trying to prove?

Nearly every country has its skeletons, sad as it is.
Humans can be the worst of creatures at times.

More apologetics.

 

[kk1992]

That is the only way democracy can work. The military has to stop interfering in politics.

If you think Imran Khan can take Pakistan to new heights with the military calling the shots from the backdrop, you are the one who is fooling himself.

He probably can't and I do not expect him to turn Pakistan in to only Asia tiger but I am very positive good governance.

I am middle class Pakistani, I happen to have family members who are very rich, obviously making money illegally and those who survived on daily wages.

Only rich are moaning but the poor one have hope and despite paying more for daily necessities they still support IK.

You claim let the democracy mature and I am using your argument on you, do not support Mulana, let IK complete 5 years.

 

[Captain caveman]

Military is essential for democracy?

Both, provided that they are competent and sincere

 

[kk1992]

No you genius!

Sure, it certainly seems like everyone is aware of history. They just be blatant liars then.

I’m originally from Pindi.

Atheist.

I don’t support any of the corrupt institutions in Pakistan be they military or civilian. They, exploit the masses, while cretins such as yourself try to justify their actions.

Shows your level of inquisition, with that statement.

I think it’s safe to say that.

Made you upset that you have to resort to name calling, Great, I thought atheist were more calm than you are displaying.

I do not live in fantasy land, I am aware of reality and things will change withing the parameter of reality of Pakistan.

where did I justify their action?

As another poster have said, you do have comprehension issues, take a break, calm yourself down and come back to it.

 

[Captain caveman]

More apologetics.

Just stating facts, nealy all countries have done things which are abhorent!

 

[AdamM97]

Military is essential for democracy?

In some cases, yes.

For instance, Ataturk gave the Turkish military the responsibility to overthrow a government and protect democracy in case a politician grew too ambitious and authoritarian. NATO itself has the role of protecting the state from authoritarian elements. It sounds contradictory but that's only because most people view the military as an anti-democratic force.

 

[Captain caveman]

Made you upset that you have to resort to name calling, Great, I thought atheist were more calm than you are displaying.

I do not live in fantasy land, I am aware of reality and things will change withing the parameter of reality of Pakistan.

where did I justify their action?

As another poster have said, you do have comprehension issues, take a break, calm yourself down and come back to it.

Brother that guy is crazy, throwing unfounded accussation around left, rigjht and centre.

 

[miandadrules]

Just stating facts, nealy all countries have done things which are abhorent!

Continued apologetics.

But you’re just stating facts of course.

 

[kk1992]

Military is essential for democracy?

If you believe in current atmosphere democracy can mature without the help of military then you are fooling yourself.

 

[miandadrules]

Made you upset that you have to resort to name calling, Great, I thought atheist were more calm than you are displaying.

I do not live in fantasy land, I am aware of reality and things will change withing the parameter of reality of Pakistan.

where did I justify their action?

As another poster have said, you do have comprehension issues, take a break, calm yourself down and come back to it.

Sorry, due to my comprehension skills I missed anything substantive you’ve posted here.

Care to highlight it?

Oh, I’ll do more than call you names. Nothing calm about me.

 

[kk1992]

Sorry, due to my comprehension skills I missed anything substantive you’ve posted here.

Care to highlight it?

Oh, I’ll do more than call you names. Nothing calm about me.

Have a good day.

 

[miandadrules]

If you believe in current atmosphere democracy can mature without the help of military then you are fooling yourself.

Sure.

More apologetics for the army.

 

[miandadrules]

Have a good day.

I thought as much.

 

[kk1992]

Brother that guy is crazy, throwing unfounded accussation around left, rigjht and centre.

If anyone believe that democracy will mature without the help of Army is living in lala land.

Pakistan had 3 consecutive democratic election and current government will complete 5 years under the PM of IK.

Sign of better and stronger democracy.

 

[miandadrules]

In some cases, yes.

For instance, Ataturk gave the Turkish military the responsibility to overthrow a government and protect democracy in case a politician grew too ambitious and authoritarian. NATO itself has the role of protecting the state from authoritarian elements. It sounds contradictory but that's only because most people view the military as an anti-democratic force.

Let’s talk in the Pakistani context.

The operative word is essential.

 

[miandadrules]

If anyone believe that democracy will mature without the help of Army is living in lala land.

Pakistan had 3 consecutive democratic election and current government will complete 5 years under the PM of IK.

Sign of better and stronger democracy.

Continued army apologetics.

 

[Mamoon]

He probably can't and I do not expect him to turn Pakistan in to only Asia tiger but I am very positive good governance.

I am middle class Pakistani, I happen to have family members who are very rich, obviously making money illegally and those who survived on daily wages.

Only rich are moaning but the poor one have hope and despite paying more for daily necessities they still support IK.

You claim let the democracy mature and I am using your argument on you, do not support Mulana, let IK complete 5 years.

I would distinguish between the rich and the poor. Let’s not be materialistic.

I would distinguish between the educated and uneducated. The uneducated are more prone to demagogy and political rhetoric, and they are the ones brimming with hope because they have little to no understanding of the history of Pakistan, the history of Pakistan politics, the role the Pakistani military has played to undermine democracy, and the role the Pakistani military is currently playing.

 

[Captain caveman]

Continued apologetics.

But you’re just stating facts of course.

I am not justifying anything, i am just stating what the reality is .

 

[miandadrules]

I am not justifying anything, i am just stating what the reality is .

Sure.

Now it’s reality.

So you’re not simply justifying it, you’re stating it’s the done thing.

Wow.

 

[Captain caveman]

I just came here to say happy Allama Iqbal day, (before i got ambushed)!

 

[Captain caveman]

Sure.

Now it’s reality.

So you’re not simply justifying it, you’re stating it’s the done thing.

Wow.

WHAT are you accussing me of?
Please be specific.

 

[kk1992]

I would distinguish between the rich and the poor. Let’s not be materialistic.

I would distinguish between the educated and uneducated. The uneducated are more prone to demagogy and political rhetoric, and they are the ones brimming with hope because they have little to no understanding of the history of Pakistan, the history of Pakistan politics, the role the Pakistani military has played to undermine democracy, and the role the Pakistani military is currently playing.

Agree on part of military role in the past and only a fool would deny it.

But if anyone believe that democracy will mature without the help of military is living in a fantasy land and ignorance on their part.

Ik may be incompetent and probably immature but anyone denying that honest and good governance does not play a big role to help shape democracy mature is just foolish.

Pakistan has a long way to go and it won't happen without the help of military.

 

[AdamM97]

Let’s talk in the Pakistani context.

The operative word is essential.

Sure, in Pakistan's case it hasn't. Today, interference by the army does hinder progress, i'll admit this much.

In my opinion, the coup in 1958 by Ayub Khan was the only positive military coup since the military rule was successful and competent in comparison with the Pakistani politicians of that time. It's just sad that Ayub Khan's government didn't last long enough like the South Korean military rule which lasted for over 20 years until the country democratized. Pakistan would've been in a much better shape today had it been ruled by the military till the 80s or 90s until the economy and governance structure matured.

 

[kk1992]

I would distinguish between the rich and the poor. Let’s not be materialistic.

I would distinguish between the educated and uneducated. The uneducated are more prone to demagogy and political rhetoric, and they are the ones brimming with hope because they have little to no understanding of the history of Pakistan, the history of Pakistan politics, the role the Pakistani military has played to undermine democracy, and the role the Pakistani military is currently playing.

All military has done is got rid of family dynastic corrupt politician who only did governance of optics.

 

[miandadrules]

WHAT are you accussing me of?
Please be specific.

Hold on.

Didn’t you say I was the one with poor comprehension?

 

[miandadrules]

All military has done is got rid of family dynastic corrupt politician who only did governance of optics.

That’s all they did?

What saints!

 

[Mamoon]

All military has done is got rid of family dynastic corrupt politician who only did governance of optics.

And who brought them in power and ignored their corruption for decades?

 

[MenInG]

And who brought them in power and ignored their corruption for decades?

So the corrupt and criminals are victims of their circumstances. Good one.