Should India become a Hindu Rashtra?

[DeadlyVenom]

5000 years in existence and India is still no Hindu rashtra. What makes anyone think India will become a Hindu rashtra in the next 5000 years?

Hindu rashtra existed in Nepal, they declared themselves one during Mughal rule, they have every right to call themselves hindu nationalists.

 

[CricketCartoons]

What hindu culture are you talking about? If you take out the part tracing back to muslims your culture will be significantly limited no?

What would you do with Taj Mahal for instance? And with the rest of the arches, domes and minarets? Will they have same fate as the Babri mosque?

Your whole Bollywood industry are circled around muslims, urdu poetry and ghazals and qawwali, starting from probably the biggest movie adjudted for various indexes, Mughle-Azam.

And your cuisine, what will it be without Biryani, Ghulab Jaman and Jalebi?

I mean your culture will not be the same if you try to eliminate everything related to muslims.

The reason masjid janmasthan had to go because it was built on an existing temple, and not just any temple, but an important place in the hindu faith. There is no problem with mosques, they can exist. That is why separate land was given for a mosque, and let the worlds greatest mosque be built there.

But please do not put urdu as a positive cultural influence. It was a street language which later borrowed vocabulary from Persian (which is a great classical language) to sound like them. Not a court language like Persian. Replace urdu with Persian, and rest is fine.

 

[JaDed]

What hindu culture are you talking about? If you take out the part tracing back to muslims your culture will be significantly limited no?

What would you do with Taj Mahal for instance? And with the rest of the arches, domes and minarets? Will they have same fate as the Babri mosque?

Your whole Bollywood industry are circled around muslims, urdu poetry and ghazals and qawwali, starting from probably the biggest movie adjudted for various indexes, Mughle-Azam.

And your cuisine, what will it be without Biryani, Ghulab Jaman and Jalebi?

I mean your culture will not be the same if you try to eliminate everything related to muslims.

None of that is true, it’s unfortunate that you think that’s all Indian culture is.
Bollywood is not even the top industry anymore, telugu has overtaken it.
Indian food has so much more than Biryani, a complete vegetarian delicacy that is best in the world.

Even bollywood isn’t about qawali only.You have painted your personal bias on India, it’s like saying America is nothing without Italians or Irish.

 

[JaDed]

Hindu rashtra existed in Nepal, they declared themselves one during Mughal rule, they have every right to call themselves hindu nationalists.

They have already lost their way, ever since they became communists their economy is suffered left right.

 

[JaDed]

i have seen India mosques, they are in terrible state, crumbling and left to rot

There are so many mosques in India, Chennai mosques are still well
maintained, and unlike temples mosques are not taken over by government but by Muslims themselves.

 

[Justcrazy]

No I am not saying that. It is not that hindus follow anything and everything, rather they are much more liberal. As you said a muslim would never go to a temple but even a practicing hindu won't have any issue going to a mosque or even offer namaz. So the fact that Ram and Rahim can't co-exist together is only due to muslims and not other way around. That is why they even got their own country in 1947 as they can't co-exist.

All this is fine but the problem arises when burden of pseudo secularism is forced on hindus alone. That is why there is a demand of Hindu Rashtra as many feel its their right.

I am not saying that , You can verify yourself. Tomorrow for example a hindu starts worshiping his bed will any hindu object to that? Some Hindus will say Vishnu is the creator , there are others who will say shiv is more powerful.

If you ask about meat eating , there will be no consensus whether it is allowed or not.

By secularism , no muslim would demand that Hindus should agree with Islam or start praying with them in Mosque , by secularism means that all religions have right to propagate in India and live peacefully . Just like Muslims , Hindus have right to pray according to own desires and whims. If any Muslim disturbs this , he should be punished.

 

[CricketCartoons]

By secularism , no muslim would demand that Hindus should agree with Islam or start praying with them in Mosque , by secularism means that all religions have right to propagate in India and live peacefully . Just like Muslims , Hindus have right to pray according to own desires and whims. If any Muslim disturbs this , he should be punished.

Indian muslims objected to a law where govt was giving citizenship to minority refugees from Afg/PK/BD who were already living in India. This woke up many including me from secular amnesia.

 

[gani999]

i have seen India mosques, they are in terrible state, crumbling and left to rot

Some mosques are in a bad shape, others are good. The historic ones maintained by ASI are all in good condition, as are the new ones built with middle eastern funding. The same holds for hindu temples. Only the parsis, christians and sikhs in India maintain all their houses of worship in immaculate condition.

 

[Vikram1989]

i have seen India mosques, they are in terrible state, crumbling and left to rot

All mosques are controlled by Waqf board,biggest property holder in india.They are corrupt to the core and incompetent at worst.No body can touch them and few board chairman's have leased waqf land next to masjid for liquor shops for their personal income .(All these chairman's will be ministers at least)

 

[DeadlyVenom]

They have already lost their way, ever since they became communists their economy is suffered left right.

Still, it didn't take them 5000 years to become a Rashtra. They have been there, done it and moved on.

If Lord Ram would have been born in Nepal his temple may not have been destroyed in the first place.

 

[Justcrazy]

Indian muslims objected to a law where govt was giving citizenship to minority refugees from Afg/PK/BD who were already living in India. This woke up many including me from secular amnesia.

That is a part of law proposed , what is the complete one mention that , then we will discuss.

 

[Justcrazy]

Still, it didn't take them 5000 years to become a Rashtra. They have been there, done it and moved on.

If Lord Ram would have been born in Nepal his temple may not have been destroyed in the first place.

Was Ram really born in that place?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Was Ram really born in that place?

From Muslim perspective - we don't know. There are many theories about Ram's existence from an Islamic pov, some may be offensive to Hindus so I won't post them.

But Hindus genuinely and passionately believe he existed and was born there. So, for the sake of respect and tolerance, it should be accepted that it is a holy site for them.

 

[Justcrazy]

From Muslim perspective - we don't know. There are many theories about Ram's existence from an Islamic pov, some may be offensive to Hindus so I won't post them.

But Hindus genuinely and passionately believe he existed and was born there. So, for the sake of respect and tolerance, it should be accepted that it is a holy site for them.

He existed and was born in Ayodhya are two different things.

My question is what is the evidence that he was born in ayodhya?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

He existed and was born in Ayodhya are two different things.

My question is what is the evidence that he was born in ayodhya?

He could only have existed if he was born no?

Where/how/why he was born is a question for Hindus to answer. They feel like they have presented enough evidence to substantiate things.

Muslims should accept the outcome and move on.

The whole of Hindustan is metaphorically a Babri Masjid anyway.

 

[Stewie]

It is funny that Hindus are quick to tell Muslims that the question whether Ram existed, where and when he was born, was it at the exact location of the Shaheed Babri Masjid, are all for Hindus to answer but when it came to sacrifice of cow as a religious right of Muslims.

 

[Justcrazy]

He could only have existed if he was born no?

Where/how/why he was born is a question for Hindus to answer. They feel like they have presented enough evidence to substantiate things.

Muslims should accept the outcome and move on.

The whole of Hindustan is metaphorically a Babri Masjid anyway.

Yes , he existed so he has to be born somewhere . Unless hindus start saying that since he was avtar of Vishnu , he appeared instead of being born.

But my question was is there any evidence he was born in ayodhya or he was born in some other place.

 

[IAJ]

None of that is true, it’s unfortunate that you think that’s all Indian culture is.
Bollywood is not even the top industry anymore, telugu has overtaken it.
Indian food has so much more than Biryani, a complete vegetarian delicacy that is best in the world.

Even bollywood isn’t about qawali only.You have painted your personal bias on India, it’s like saying America is nothing without Italians or Irish.

I have no personal bias on India at all, why should I have that? You should know that by now with my posts on the topic for last 15-16 years here PP.

The guy I quoted wanted a pure Hindu culture and that is not possible in today's India unless you eliminate the things I mentioned.

I have lived almost my entire life in Norway and if you ask any random Norwegian about Indian culture, first thing they will mention is Taj Mahal and then they will mention Bollywood and of course Indian cuisine. Even there you have many things adobted from muslims.

That is part of your culture now, so I really didn't understand your post at all.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

No I am not saying that. It is not that hindus follow anything and everything, rather they are much more liberal. As you said a muslim would never go to a temple but even a practicing hindu won't have any issue going to a mosque or even offer namaz. So the fact that Ram and Rahim can't co-exist together is only due to muslims and not other way around. That is why they even got their own country in 1947 as they can't co-exist.

All this is fine but the problem arises when burden of pseudo secularism is forced on hindus alone. That is why there is a demand of Hindu Rashtra as many feel its their right.

LMAO hindus can't even tolerate Muslims praying in the open and they themselves will offer namaz in mosques?

 

[Rajdeep]

LMAO hindus can't even tolerate Muslims praying in the open and they themselves will offer namaz in mosques?

That is because offering namaz in the middle of the road causes delay for people going to work or school. There is a reason it is banned in all Western world. It has nothing to do with intolerance towards a faith.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That is because offering namaz in the middle of the road causes delay for people going to work or school. There is a reason it is banned in all Western world. It has nothing to do with intolerance towards a faith.

No one offers prayers in the middle of the road in western countries.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

That is because offering namaz in the middle of the road causes delay for people going to work or school. There is a reason it is banned in all Western world. It has nothing to do with intolerance towards a faith

And where did I say that they offer namaz in the middle of the road? Hindus have problems even if muslims offer namaz in an open park or on terrace.

 

[cricketjoshila]

He existed and was born in Ayodhya are two different things.

My question is what is the evidence that he was born in ayodhya?

400 plus pieces of evidence was given to the supreme court.

 

[Stewie]

There is a lot of discussion around whether Ayodhaya the modern day city even existed all those years ago when Ram supposedly walked the earth. It is quite possible the city currently called Ayodhaya took its inspiration for the name from the hindu scriptures and is not the same city as purportedly mentioned in the hindu sacred texts.

I find this whole thing pretty fascinating. By most academics, the whole thing is questionable and yet the hindu court presented with hundreds of "pieces of evidence" was apparently very convinced.
Makes for an interesting case study in the modern day justice system, as worthy as the Pakistani courts.

 

[Justcrazy]

400 plus pieces of evidence was given to the supreme court.

where can you see those evidence ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Very good article here>

Why the new Ram temple in Ayodhya is a turning point for India

The temple, built on the ruins of a demolished mosque, is the symbol of India’s transformation into a Hindu nation.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[RexRex]

It's not a state subject. It's on the concurrent list which means both the centre and state can make laws on it. If the two laws conflict, then the centre gets priority.

If so, why have the BJP done nothing in 10 years ?

I didn't get an answer on this. You said state. Is it on state list or concurrent list ? @cricketjoshila

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Very good article here>

Why the new Ram temple in Ayodhya is a turning point for India

The temple, built on the ruins of a demolished mosque, is the symbol of India’s transformation into a Hindu nation.

www.aljazeera.com

Pick an excuse

1. Al Jazeera has no credibility.
2. Author is from congress
3. Author is a liberal.
4. Hagia Sophia.
5. Why do Pakistanis care.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Mr. Rishwat will quietly slip away from this thread (as quietly as the Cheshire cat) once I start dissecting that abominable piece of junk article ... you want to see?

I would love to see you dissect the article but only if you offer something more than the generic excuses I've listed.

 

[Stewie]

Well if you want to play it that way no media outlet has any credibiity and neither do kangaroo courts who have reviewed the so called evidence. There are several archeological experts who disagreed with the whole Ayodhaya evidence but will you guys ever want to discuss their side of the story?

 

[uppercut]

Well if you want to play it that way no media outlet has any credibiity and neither do kangaroo courts who have reviewed the so called evidence. There are several archeological experts who disagreed with the whole Ayodhaya evidence but will you guys ever want to discuss their side of the story?

Absolutely... post links to what these archaeologists have to say and why the court rejected their theories.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The consecration of the Ram temple also emboldened those who took part in the destruction of the Babri Mosque. Many of them publicly admitted to the role they played in this “egregious” crime, and proudly gave interviews to the press about it. Many retired justices, army officers and civil servants revealed that they have always been for the destruction of the mosque and openly celebrated the consecration of the new temple.

Taken from the said article. What part of it do you disagree with?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In a 2019 ruling, India’s Supreme Court called the demolition of the mosque an “egregious violation of the rule of law” but still allowed for a Ram temple to be built where it once stood. It was a strange judgement that appeared to defy all legal logic. The only justification offered for it was that the building of a temple there would pacify the Hindu majority and bring peace and tranquillity to the country. Still, it was widely criticised by jurists, in India and abroad, for turning justice on its head. The judgement was seen as a reward for the crime committed in 1992.

You might want to explain that part as well.

 

[uppercut]

You might want to explain that part as well.

Taken from the said article. What part of it do you disagree with?

since both are related to the destruction of the Babri Mosque, lets first establish the nature of the Babri Mosque and what it symbolizes. Do you consider that the Babri Mosque was as sacred as say a statue of Mahatma Gandhi or MLK ? If you want a like for like comparison lets use Babri Mosque versus the Vatican or the Gometeshwara or Bodhgaya instead of modern personalities like Gandhi or MLK.

Note: We will have to use universally accepted modern standards of values to determine the answer for that question. I ask that question because that is where the dispute starts.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It is state as per states as they have powers over Incorporation.

I didn't get an answer on this. You said state. Is it on state list or concurrent list ? @cricketjoshila

That's why HRCE acts have been challenged in the SC.

Its a constitutional matter.

 

[uppercut]

I would love to see you dissect the article but only if you offer something more than the generic excuses I've listed.

Watch this video that goes to the heart of the question ( Secularism is in grave danger ) . the video is a bit long ( about 45 mins ) but it is an eye opener for those who do not live in India or are unfamiliar with ground realities in India.

Note this event transpired in the last 24 hours or so.


TLDR:

1. A imam who attended the Ram temple innauguration last week was Fatwa'd and is getting threats from his own community for obvious reasons. His private phone number was made public. This Imam is featured in a debate with a representative from Congress and BJP each and another Maulvi.
2. The basis for the fatwa was that he put humanity above religion and ofcourse attended a function of a religion whose followers are called Kaffirs.
3. Another Maulvi on the debate openly supported the fatwa and chastized the Imam.
4. So did the political representative from Congress in a round about manner.
5. The second half of the video is about the legalese pertaining to the ongoing Gyanvapi mosque dispute. It features one of India's sharp legal mind and gives you the realities on Indian laws which are artificially stacked against Hindus.

 

[RexRex]

It is state as per states as they have powers over Incorporation.


That's why HRCE acts have been challenged in the SC.

Its a constitutional matter.

I've already told you 'religious endowments' is an item on the concurrent list. So the BJP had ten years to make a national law on it and they didn't.

The HRCE legal challenge is irrelevant, this pertains only to Tamil Nadu.

 

[RexRex]

Watch this video that goes to the heart of the question ( Secularism is in grave danger ) . the video is a bit long ( about 45 mins ) but it is an eye opener for those who do not live in India or are unfamiliar with ground realities in India.

Note this event transpired in the last 24 hours or so.


TLDR:

1. A imam who attended the Ram temple innauguration last week was Fatwa'd and is getting threats from his own community for obvious reasons. His private phone number was made public. This Imam is featured in a debate with a representative from Congress and BJP each and another Maulvi.
2. The basis for the fatwa was that he put humanity above religion and ofcourse attended a function of a religion whose followers are called Kaffirs.
3. Another Maulvi on the debate openly supported the fatwa and chastized the Imam.
4. So did the political representative from Congress in a round about manner.
5. The second half of the video is about the legalese pertaining to the ongoing Gyanvapi mosque dispute. It features one of India's sharp legal mind and gives you the realities on Indian laws which are artificially stacked against Hindus.

How many more mosques are the Sangh Parivar planning to tear down in total and replace with temples ?

 

[uppercut]

How many more mosques are the Sangh Parivar planning to tear down in total and replace with temples ?

First of all its no longer just the Sangh parivaar that wants this justice ... this is now a demand that has widespread support( it always did but the narrative was controlled by questionable entities )

By and large the main ask is for 2 more temples gyanvapi and mathura krishna janmasthan as these are very sacred places.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pick an excuse

1. Al Jazeera has no credibility.
2. Author is from congress
3. Author is a liberal.
4. Hagia Sophia.
5. Why do Pakistanis care.

All of them. Because all of them are true.

 

[cricketjoshila]

How many more mosques are the Sangh Parivar planning to tear down in total and replace with temples ?

Total 4 were listed in 1947. 2 are done.

2 more left.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Watch this video that goes to the heart of the question ( Secularism is in grave danger ) . the video is a bit long ( about 45 mins ) but it is an eye opener for those who do not live in India or are unfamiliar with ground realities in India.

Note this event transpired in the last 24 hours or so.


TLDR:

1. A imam who attended the Ram temple innauguration last week was Fatwa'd and is getting threats from his own community for obvious reasons. His private phone number was made public. This Imam is featured in a debate with a representative from Congress and BJP each and another Maulvi.
2. The basis for the fatwa was that he put humanity above religion and ofcourse attended a function of a religion whose followers are called Kaffirs.
3. Another Maulvi on the debate openly supported the fatwa and chastized the Imam.
4. So did the political representative from Congress in a round about manner.
5. The second half of the video is about the legalese pertaining to the ongoing Gyanvapi mosque dispute. It features one of India's sharp legal mind and gives you the realities on Indian laws which are artificially stacked against Hindus.

I'll watch the video but I'm a bit upset as I wanted to see you dissect the article CPT posted. This seems like an unrelated video.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I've already told you 'religious endowments' is an item on the concurrent list. So the BJP had ten years to make a national law on it and they didn't.

The HRCE legal challenge is irrelevant, this pertains only to Tamil Nadu.

Religious trusts also come under state list as states have control over Incorporation.

Its how the state interprets the law.

There are HRCE acts in many other states where state governments control the temples.

 

[uppercut]

I'll watch the video but I'm a bit upset as I wanted to see you dissect the article CPT posted. This seems like an unrelated video.

It actually goes to the root of the issue raised in the Al-Jazeera article ( Secularism is in grave Danger in India due to the Ram temple construction ) . In any case I also responded to Mr. Rishwat seperately. See post #434. You can respond to that post if you prefer as I dont count on Mr. Rishwat responding based on past experiences.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I'll watch the video but I'm a bit upset as I wanted to see you dissect the article CPT posted. This seems like an unrelated video.

He's never going to address points directly raised, this is his MO, veer off into a different direction. Then claim the other debater is running away because we can't be bothered to wade through his reams of carefully assembled hindutva content.

Those questions posed by the writer were not that difficult to address, but because he couldn't answer them he shifted the goalposts to a different question more to his liking.

 

[uppercut]

He's never going to address points directly raised, this is his MO, veer off into a different direction. Then claim the other debater is running away because we can't be bothered to wade through his reams of carefully assembled hindutva content.

Wowzers ... really ? What other direction am i veering off to in my response to your in post#434 and my subsequent reminder in 444?.

Other than the fertilizer hitting you straight in the nostrills .... Whats stopping you from getting to the root cause of the problem that the article you posted is lamenting about ?

Those questions posed by the writer were not that difficult to address, but because he couldn't answer them he shifted the goalposts to a different question more to his liking.

indeed ... which is why I posted a clip of a real life event that happened as a direct result of the temple inauguration and pertains to the concerns expressed in the article ... let me know whats Al-Jazeera/your take is on that lol.

Dont ever be under the impression that Iam being evasive. When in doubt assume that my response is an old school way of imparting proper education(or you could just ask).

Ohh and how is that Hindutva thread coming about ? You were supposed to open one ... remember?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Total 4 were listed in 1947. 2 are done.

2 more left.

Enough with giving concessions every time. They cannot even give one back, knowing the importance of the site for hindus. Time to get back all, one by one. We should stop being magnanimous.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Wowzers ... really ? What other direction am i veering off to in my response to your in post#434 and my subsequent reminder in 444?.

Other than the fertilizer hitting you straight in the nostrills .... Whats stopping you from getting to the root cause of the problem that the article you posted is lamenting about ?



indeed ... which is why I posted a clip of a real life event that happened as a direct result of the temple inauguration and pertains to the concerns expressed in the article ... let me know whats Al-Jazeera/your take is on that lol.

Dont ever be under the impression that Iam being evasive. When in doubt assume that my response is an old school way of imparting proper education(or you could just ask).

Ohh and how is that Hindutva thread coming about ? You were supposed to open one ... remember?

You could just try addressing the points raised by the writer instead of referring to former posts# or falsely honking* about your own education and competence - which by the way is not answering any of the points directly.

* a new term for avid watchers across the border who unwittingly adopt the language I impart. Add it to your thesaurus @cricketjoshila

 

[uppercut]

You could just try addressing the points raised by the writer instead of referring to former posts# or falsely honking* about your own education and competence - which by the way is not answering any of the points directly.

That would be a bit like trying to explain complex grammatical syntax before understanding the alphabets.

So in this case about the Ram temple and its impact we cannot have a meaningful debate before we establish and agree about how the Babri mosque was constructed and why the Muslims in 2024 still consider it as a holy place of worship.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That would be a bit like trying to explain complex grammatical syntax before understanding the alphabets.

So in this case about the Ram temple and its impact we cannot have a meaningful debate before we establish and agree about how the Babri mosque was constructed and why the Muslims in 2024 still consider it as a holy place of worship.

The Babri mosque was demolished by hindutva mobs in 1992. Those responsible openly admitted it. Even if you believe that the masjid needed to be demolished to wrong a right, should this not be a govt authorised action carried out after due legal process?

 

[CricketCartoons]

The Babri mosque was demolished by hindutva mobs in 1992. Those responsible openly admitted it. Even if you believe that the masjid needed to be demolished to wrong a right, should this not be a govt authorised action carried out after due legal process?

Yes, it should have been a govt authorized action. But the congress govts kept sitting on it and expected hindus to keep waiting for godot. Even after hindus demolished the offensive structure, it took 30 more years. Credit to hindus that they waited as much as they did. They should have demolished it in 1950s itself.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes, it should have been a govt authorized action. But the congress govts kept sitting on it and expected hindus to keep waiting for godot. Even after hindus demolished the offensive structure, it took 30 more years. Credit to hindus that they waited as much as they did. They should have demolished it in 1950s itself.

So it was an illegal act which duly got legitimised. The message this sends out is crime does pay.

 

[CricketCartoons]

So it was an illegal act which duly got legitimised. The message this sends out is crime does pay.

Imran Khan's blocking the road by containers was also illegal. So yeah, you can say that his crime did pay.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Imran Khan's blocking the road by containers was also illegal. So yeah, you can say that his crime did pay.

It didn't pay, he ended up in jail.

 

[CricketCartoons]

It didn't pay, he ended up in jail.

So you concede he is a criminal. Fair enough. At least you have no double standards on this issue.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So you concede he is a criminal. Fair enough. At least you have no double standards on this issue.

I don't concede he is a criminal. He may or may not be, but at least due process was followed.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I don't concede he is a criminal. He may or may not be, but at least due process was followed.

How not? If he did something illegal doesnt it make him a criminal? Since you are such a supporter of the written law, which he did break, why are you so hesitant in calling him a criminal?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How not? If he did something illegal doesnt it make him a criminal? Since you are such a supporter of the written law, which he did break, why are you so hesitant in calling him a criminal?

Because I don't trust people enforcing the law in Pakistan, or those who bring charges. Pakistan is notorious for bringing trumped up charges against not only politicians but minorities and innocents who step on the wrong toes.

Of course it may be that in fact the courts and politicians are pristine, and as a neutral, I have a warped view of the goings on due to media image portrayed of said country.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Bulldozers have knocked down a centuries-old mosque in India’s capital, a member of the mosque’s managing committee said on Thursday during a demolition drive to remove “illegal” structures from a forest reserve.

The demolition comes at a sensitive time in India with nationalist activists emboldened in their long campaign for the replacement of several prominent mosques with Hindu temples.

The Masjid Akhonji in New Delhi, which its caretakers say is around 600 years old, was home to 22 students enrolled in an Islamic boarding school.

It was torn down on Tuesday in a forest of Mehrauli, an affluent neighbourhood dotted with centuries-old ruins from settlements predating modern Delhi.

Mohammad Zaffar, a member of the mosque’s managing committee, told AFP that it had not received any prior notice before a demolition carried out “in the dark of the night”.

He said many graves in the mosque compound were also desecrated, and no one was allowed to take out copies of the Holy Quran or other materials from inside the mosque before it was razed.

“Many of our revered figures and my own ancestors were buried there. There is no trace of the graves now,” Zaffar told AFP.

“The rubble from the mosque and the graves has been removed and dumped somewhere else.”

The Delhi Development Authority, the city’s main land management agency responsible for carrying out the demolitions, did not respond to AFP’s requests for comment.

A heavy police presence had barricaded roads outside the grounds on Thursday and refused access to the site.

The demolition took place barely a week after Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurated a grand new Hindu temple in the northern city of Ayodhya, built on grounds once home to the centuries-old Babri mosque.

That mosque was torn down in 1992 in a campaign spearheaded by members of Modi’s party, sparking riots that killed 2,000 people nationwide, most of them Muslims.

Hindu activist groups have also laid claim to the disputed Gyanvapi mosque in the Indian holy city of Varanasi, which they say was built over a Hindu temple during the Muslim Mughal empire centuries ago.

Hindu worshippers entered the Gyanvapi mosque on Thursday to pray after a local court gave them permission to do so.

Calls for India to enshrine Hindu supremacy have rapidly grown louder since Modi took office in 2014, making the country’s roughly 210-million-strong Muslim minority increasingly anxious about their future.

Source: Dawn

Centuries-old mosque torn down in Indian capital

Member of the mosque’s managing committee says it had not received any prior notice before a demolition carried out “in the dark of the night”.

www.dawn.com

 

[uppercut]

The Babri mosque was demolished by hindutva mobs in 1992. Those responsible openly admitted it. Even if you believe that the masjid needed to be demolished to wrong a right, should this not be a govt authorised action carried out after due legal process?

Wrong a right ehh? Talk about Freudian slip. lol

 

[FearlessRoar]

Bulldozers have knocked down a centuries-old mosque in India’s capital, a member of the mosque’s managing committee said on Thursday during a demolition drive to remove “illegal” structures from a forest reserve.

The demolition comes at a sensitive time in India with nationalist activists emboldened in their long campaign for the replacement of several prominent mosques with Hindu temples.

The Masjid Akhonji in New Delhi, which its caretakers say is around 600 years old, was home to 22 students enrolled in an Islamic boarding school.

It was torn down on Tuesday in a forest of Mehrauli, an affluent neighbourhood dotted with centuries-old ruins from settlements predating modern Delhi.

Mohammad Zaffar, a member of the mosque’s managing committee, told AFP that it had not received any prior notice before a demolition carried out “in the dark of the night”.

He said many graves in the mosque compound were also desecrated, and no one was allowed to take out copies of the Holy Quran or other materials from inside the mosque before it was razed.

“Many of our revered figures and my own ancestors were buried there. There is no trace of the graves now,” Zaffar told AFP.

“The rubble from the mosque and the graves has been removed and dumped somewhere else.”

The Delhi Development Authority, the city’s main land management agency responsible for carrying out the demolitions, did not respond to AFP’s requests for comment.

A heavy police presence had barricaded roads outside the grounds on Thursday and refused access to the site.

The demolition took place barely a week after Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurated a grand new Hindu temple in the northern city of Ayodhya, built on grounds once home to the centuries-old Babri mosque.

That mosque was torn down in 1992 in a campaign spearheaded by members of Modi’s party, sparking riots that killed 2,000 people nationwide, most of them Muslims.

Hindu activist groups have also laid claim to the disputed Gyanvapi mosque in the Indian holy city of Varanasi, which they say was built over a Hindu temple during the Muslim Mughal empire centuries ago.

Hindu worshippers entered the Gyanvapi mosque on Thursday to pray after a local court gave them permission to do so.

Calls for India to enshrine Hindu supremacy have rapidly grown louder since Modi took office in 2014, making the country’s roughly 210-million-strong Muslim minority increasingly anxious about their future.

Source: Dawn

Centuries-old mosque torn down in Indian capital

Member of the mosque’s managing committee says it had not received any prior notice before a demolition carried out “in the dark of the night”.

www.dawn.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753629382906683448

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Modi's image in the manner of a medieval Hindu sovereign, involved in a ceremony that melded state and faith, is the final sign that India is now a de facto Hindu rashtra or Hindu state. This moment has been decades in the making. The destruction of the Babri Masjid in 1992 was its biggest victory. January 22 inaugurates a second republic for the Indian Union...

The outlines of the Hindu rashtra are, therefore, being sketched out before our eyes, fashioned by current events. However, a decade into the Modi age, we can discern its defining contours. For one, quite obviously, it means a drastic shrinking of rights for its religious minorities, especially Muslims, who are the principal Other for the Hindu rashtra. Even something as banal as canvassing for Muslim votes is now decried as 'appeasement.' In many states, basic law and order is a privilege for Muslims.

'India Lurches Toward Full-Fledged Fascism' as Modi Opens Contentious Hindu Temple | Common Dreams

"The people of India have struggled for decades to secure a democracy that is secular, just, and equal. Modi must not be permitted to rob them of it now," admonished Progressive International's cabinet.

www.commondreams.org

 

[CricketCartoons]

Modi's image in the manner of a medieval Hindu sovereign, involved in a ceremony that melded state and faith, is the final sign that India is now a de facto Hindu rashtra or Hindu state. This moment has been decades in the making. The destruction of the Babri Masjid in 1992 was its biggest victory. January 22 inaugurates a second republic for the Indian Union...

The outlines of the Hindu rashtra are, therefore, being sketched out before our eyes, fashioned by current events. However, a decade into the Modi age, we can discern its defining contours. For one, quite obviously, it means a drastic shrinking of rights for its religious minorities, especially Muslims, who are the principal Other for the Hindu rashtra. Even something as banal as canvassing for Muslim votes is now decried as 'appeasement.' In many states, basic law and order is a privilege for Muslims.

'India Lurches Toward Full-Fledged Fascism' as Modi Opens Contentious Hindu Temple | Common Dreams

"The people of India have struggled for decades to secure a democracy that is secular, just, and equal. Modi must not be permitted to rob them of it now," admonished Progressive International's cabinet.

www.commondreams.org

What a joke of an article. Modi is a hindu, if him attending a temple ceremony makes india a hindu nation, then obama, bush, trump attending church makes america a christian nation. No big deal.

 

[CricketCartoons]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753629382906683448

Called my friend who works for Delhi Development Authority. He said that all illegal structures in reserved forest are being demolished, after decision by a committee and sending notices.

That is the problem with concessions. People start taking it as their right, and the moment the concession is withdrawn, it feels like injustice to the recipients.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Indian activist Umar Khalid withdraws bail plea from Supreme Court after 14 adjournments

Jailed activist Umar Khalid on Wednesday withdrew his bail application from India's apex court after the hearing was adjourned 14 times in less than a year.

Mr Khalid has been languishing in New Delhi's high-security Tihar jail since September 2020 after he was arrested under the draconian Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA) over allegations of instigating riots in the capital. The stringent counter-terrorism law allows prolonged detention of suspects without trial or charge.

Mr Khalid has been accused of allegedly being a mastermind behind the February 2020 riots in Delhi, where at least 53 people, mostly Muslims, were killed.

The riots erupted during nationwide protests against the Citizenship (Amendment) Act passed by the Indian government and the proposed pan-India National Register of Citizens. Under the CAA citizenship rights would be granted to persecuted refugees from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan – with the exception of those who are Muslims.

Mr Khalid had approached the Supreme Court after the Delhi high court rejected his bail plea in October 2022.

Advocate Kapil Sibal appearing for Mr Khalid told the bench that his client wished to withdraw the petition citing "a change in circumstances", Live Law reported.

Mr Khalid's legal team would now "try our luck in the trial court".

A bench of justices Bela M Trivedi and Pankaj Mithal allowed the request and dismissed it as withdrawn.

The matter before the Supreme Court has been adjourned 14 times since the first hearing on 18 May 2023. The apex court postponed the hearing at least six times, while Mr Khalid's counsel sought adjournments four times.

"Our Supreme Court journey ends for now," wrote Banojyotsna Lahiri, Mr Khalid's partner, on X.

Mr Khalid, a scholar from India's premier Jawaharlal Nehru University, was catapulted into the spotlight after being charged with sedition along with four others for organising a protest at the varsity in 2016. He was released months later after surrendering to the local police.

Rights groups have accused prime minister Narendra Modi's government of weaponising the UAPA law to jail dissenters, including Mr Khalid.

"The repeated denial of bail to Umar Khalid is a huge blow to everyone exercising their rights to freedom of expression and peaceful assembly in the country," Aakar Patel, Amnesty International India’s Chair of Board, said in 2022.

"Khalid’s continued detention under UAPA runs absolutely counter to the international human rights law and standards," he added.

The Independent

Umar Khalid withdraws bail plea from Supreme Court after 14 adjournments

Umar Khalid’s counsel will now ‘try’ their ‘luck in trial court’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[FearlessRoar]

All other communities, except Hindus, are facing problems.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Hamas to halal: How anti-Muslim hate speech is spreading in India

India averaged nearly two anti-Muslim hate speech events per day in 2023 and three in every four of those events – or 75 percent – took place in states ruled by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party, revealed a report released Monday.

In 2023, the hate speech events peaked between August and November, the period of political campaigning and polling in four major states, according to a report released by India Hate Lab (IHL), a Washington, DC-based research group.

As India heads for a national vote in the upcoming months, a first-of-its-kind report by the IHL maps the spread of anti-Muslim hate speech across the country. The group documented a total of 668 hate speech events.

Last month, the website of India Hate Lab was rendered inaccessible in India after the government blocked it under the controversial Information Technology (IT) Act, 2000. The government also blocked the website of Hindutva Watch, an independent hate-crime tracker also run by the IHL’s founder.

The new report – the first time a research group has tracked hate speech events in India over a year – tracks how these events spread geographically across India, the triggers behind these events, and when they occur.

Which are India’s hate speech hotbeds?

The group documented a total of 668 hate speech events across 18 states and three federally governed territories. The top-ranking Indian states for these events were: Maharashtra in the west with 118 incidents, Uttar Pradesh in the north with 104 incidents, and Madhya Pradesh in central India with 65 incidents.

These three states are among the biggest voter bases, are currently ruled by the BJP, and collectively account for 43 percent of the total hate speech events recorded in 2023.

But relatively smaller states, like Haryana and Uttarakhand in northern India, weren’t immune either.

While Haryana witnessed 48 hate speech events, or about 7.2 percent, events in Uttarakhand made up 6 percent – both states are among the emerging hotbeds for anti-Muslim violence as well. Seven people died and over 70 were injured in violence in the Nuh region of Haryana in August 2023; earlier this month, five Muslims were killed in Haldwani, Uttarakhand, while protesting against the demolition of a mosque and a religious school in the town.

Prem Shukla, a national spokesperson of the BJP, told Al Jazeera that the party has been opposing the “Islamic fundamentalist forces” and alleged that the IHL data represented a “biased picture of the situation”.

“The other so-called secular states are targeting the Hindu majority community by hate speeches, but no one will talk about it,” Shukla said in a phone interview. He also dismissed the IHL report, alleging that those behind it “have sworn to destroy the BJP”.

Who rules states with the most hate speech?

As per the report, 498 hate speech events, which make up 75 percent, took place in the states ruled by the BJP or in territories that it effectively governs through the central government. Among the 10 states with the most hate speech events, six were ruled by the BJP throughout the year. The other three states, Rajasthan, Karnataka, and Chhattisgarh had legislative elections in 2023, in which power changed hands: Rajasthan and Chhattisgarh moved from the opposition Congress party to the BJP, and Karnataka from the BJP to the Congress. Bihar, the last of the 10 states with the most hate-speech events, was ruled by an opposition coalition until last month, when its chief minister switched sides to join a BJP-led alliance.

More than 77 percent of speeches that included a direct call of violence against Muslims were also delivered in states and territories governed by the BJP.

A third of all hate speech events documented by the IHL were organised by two far-right organisations, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and the Bajrang Dal, which are associated with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the ideological mentor of the BJP. In 2018, the United States Central Intelligence Agency tagged the VHP and Bajrang Dal as “religious militant organisations”.

“Our analysis shows that anti-Muslim hate speech has been normalised and become part of India’s socio-political sphere,” said Raqib Hameed Naik, founder of the IHL. “We foresee rampant use of anti-Muslim hate during the upcoming general elections to polarise voters.”

What are the provocations used for hate speech events?

The report documented that 63 percent of the total 668 hate speech events referenced Islamophobic conspiracy theories.

The theories included “love jihad”, an alleged phenomenon where Muslim men lure Hindu women into marrying them and converting to Islam; “land jihad”, which alleges Muslims are occupying public lands by building religious structures or holding prayers; “halal jihad”, which views Islamic practices as the economic exclusion of non-Muslim traders; and “population jihad”, which alleges that Muslims reproduce with the intention of eventually outnumbering and dominating other populations.

All of these conspiracy theories have been debunked: The government’s own data, for instance, shows that Muslim fertility rates are dropping faster than those of any other major community in India.

Over 48 percent of the events occurred between August and November, a period that saw state elections in four major states.

Reacting to the IHL report, Amnesty International called on Indian authorities to put an end to the rise in speeches calling for violence and hatred against religious minorities.

“[The authorities] must take concrete measures to counter stereotypes, eradicate discrimination, and foster greater equality,” Aakar Patel, chair of the board at Amnesty International India, told Al Jazeera.

What’s the latest hate weapon being used against Indian Muslims?

Since October 7, Indian far-right groups have been weaponising the Hamas attack on southern Israel, and Israel’s ongoing war on Gaza to stoke anti-Indian Muslim fears and hate.

From October 7 to December 31, 2023, one in every five hate-speech events invoked Israel’s war, a phenomenon that peaked in November, according to the IHL report.

Pravin Togadia, founder and current president of the Antarrashtriya Hindu Parishad, said in an event in Haryana on November 20: “Today it is Israel’s turn. That same Palestine is rising in our villages and our streets. Saving our prosperity, our women, from them is a big challenge for us.”

In the same month, Kapil Mishra, a BJP leader, said: “What Israel faced is what we have been facing for 1,400 years.”

Other analysts have found that India has also emerged as an epicentre of disinformation on Israel’s war on Gaza, spreading through the internet.

Al Jazeera

Hamas to halal: How anti-Muslim hate speech is spreading in India

Ahead of national elections, a new report tracks how hate speech events map geographically across India.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[FearlessRoar]

As someone from Pakistan, it's sad to see hate speech against Muslims in India. We should all condemn it and aim for respect and understanding.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Al Jazeera

Hamas to halal: How anti-Muslim hate speech is spreading in India

Ahead of national elections, a new report tracks how hate speech events map geographically across India.

www.aljazeera.com

Cherry picked article. It should count anti hindu speeches AS WELL so that like for like comparison be made.

What people don't want to talk about reveals more than what they want to talk about.

 

[sweep_shot]

The report documented that 63 percent of the total 668 hate speech events referenced Islamophobic conspiracy theories.

The theories included “love jihad”, an alleged phenomenon where Muslim men lure Hindu women into marrying them and converting to Islam; “land jihad”, which alleges Muslims are occupying public lands by building religious structures or holding prayers; “halal jihad”, which views Islamic practices as the economic exclusion of non-Muslim traders; and “population jihad”, which alleges that Muslims reproduce with the intention of eventually outnumbering and dominating other populations.

I honestly don't know where they got this "love jihad" from. Love jihad is not a concept in Islam.

It is haram to be in a relationship before marriage.

Also, LOL at "population jihad". Where do they get these from?

These people are funny, delusional, and desperate.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Prime Minister Narendra Modi will again contest from the holy Hindu city of Varanasi, topping the first list of candidates which gives his Bharatiya Janata Party a headstart over the opposition alliance that’s still negotiating seat shares.

Modi’s constituency, Varanasi, is in Uttar Pradesh which sends the highest number of lawmakers to parliament and has given India most of its prime ministers.

The first list comprises of 195 candidates from 16 states and two federal-controlled provinces, BJP’s National General Secretary Vinod Tawde said in New Delhi Saturday announcing the candidates. The list includes 34 federal ministers, including India’s Home Minister Amit Shah.

Shah, perceived as Modi’s point man for more than three decades, will contest from Gandhinagar in the western state of Gujarat, according to the party. Declaring candidates early gives the BJP more time to reach out to voters, as Modi attempts to increase representation in the lower house.

India is the world’s biggest democracy and polls are scheduled in April with voting typically spanning several weeks. The new government is expected to take office in May.

Modi is seeking a record third term in office. He is campaigning on programs such as free food for the poor, piped water for households, rapid infrastructure development, and India’s widening participation on the global stage. The economy grew more than 8 percent in the final three months of last year, beating analyst forecasts and helping Modi project himself as the only option for voters.

India’s opposition alliance, known by the acronym I.N.D.I.A, was formed last year to boost chances of defeating the BJP. Negotiations are taking place among regional parties and possible allies and the coalition has not declared any candidates.

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2024/03/03/Modi-to-contest-from-Varanasi-as-BJP-kickstarts-India-s-general-election-campaign

 

[FearlessRoar]

Modi will again contest from the holy Hindu city of Varanasi and no wonder why he has chosen this city.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Modi will again contest from the holy Hindu city of Varanasi and no wonder why he has chosen this city.

Why?

 

[FearlessRoar]

Under Modi's dictatorship, this is how India has become. I think all minorities should leave India now. It is only a home for Hindus.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1766040048091447403

 

[cricketjoshila]

Under Modi's dictatorship, this is how India has become. I think all minorities should leave India now. It is only a home for Hindus.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1766040048091447403

Blocking a road is justified because the person is a minority?

And removing them is oppression?

 

[cricketjoshila]

First block the road. Stop traffic. If police takes action, play the victim card of being minority.

Decades of appeasement by political parties have made a section of muslim community think they are above the law. They also have great faith in the coverfire that Islamists and leftists will provide them.



Won't work anymore.

 

[anikrc1]

Blocking a road is justified because the person is a minority?

And removing them is oppression?

So police can kick someone ? If he wanted to remove them he could have talked it out with them. What gives him the right to kick someone?

 

[CricketCartoons]

So police can kick someone ? If he wanted to remove them he could have talked it out with them. What gives him the right to kick someone?

Will you support if 500 hindus go and block roads to gyanwapi temple as everyone has the right to block roads?

 

[anikrc1]

Will you support if 500 hindus go and block roads to gyanwapi temple as everyone has the right to block roads?

I didn't say they have the right to block the roads. I said police should have handled it in a civil way. Pretty sure the police isn't even authorized to kick proven criminals.

 

[anikrc1]

Seriously police force are said to be public servants. But the behavior of Indian police suggests that they are the ruler.