Should Mawlid (Eid Milad-un-Nabi) be celebrated?

[Major]

I think you do not have an understanding of how things work . Have you asked yourself those who celebrate it? Can you show me a single barelwi scholar who has said what you are saying ? You will never find a single person who celebrates it saying this is a useless thing to do. Everyone will say you will be rewarded for celebrating this.

I think its you who doesnt understand things and every year cries about this issue while we still go on to celerbate 12 rabiul awal.

I dont care what people have to say.12 rabiul awal in Pakistan is celebrated because it is seen as a festivity. You dont know how the mohalla system of Pakistan works and how they are closely knitted.

If people were doing it for blessings, they would be fasting, which alot of people also do.

 

[Justcrazy]

I think its you who doesnt understand things and every year cries about this issue while we still go on to celerbate 12 rabiul awal.

I dont care what people have to say.12 rabiul awal in Pakistan is celebrated because it is seen as a festivity. You dont know how the mohalla system of Pakistan works and how they are closely knitted.

If people were doing it for blessings, they would be fasting, which alot of people also do.

I answered your previous comment already. What is the point in repeating the same. I repeat that again , you can do whatever you want , you can celebrate Prophet Muhammad birthday , your birthday , satans birthday , no one can stop you.

But your act will not make it permissible in Islam. Here we are discussing in a certain context , and that is within perspective of Islam. So if we have any evidence from that context show us , otherwise no point in saying I do this and that .

Also , no one cares what Mohalla system in Pakistan is. Islam is not about Arab or Pakistan. There are several things that happen in Pakistan that is against Islam , so we will say it is okay? The thread is Not about Pakistan.

 

[Major]

I answered your previous comment already. What is the point in repeating the same. I repeat that again , you can do whatever you want , you can celebrate Prophet Muhammad birthday , your birthday , satans birthday , no one can stop you.

But your act will not make it permissible in Islam. Here we are discussing in a certain context , and that is within perspective of Islam. So if we have any evidence from that context show us , otherwise no point in saying I do this and that .

Also , no one cares what Mohalla system in Pakistan is. Islam is not about Arab or Pakistan. There are several things that happen in Pakistan that is against Islam , so we will say it is okay? The thread is Not about Pakistan.

What has satans birthday got to do here.

Who are you to claim what is permissible and what is not?

The discussion here is basically a group of people having issues with how another group of people are enjoying a festivity and making up their own definition of what is permissible and what is not.

You will not find evidence for each and everything we do on earth from a religions perspective.

As for the last paragraph, i was telling you how the festivity is celebrated in Pakistan and brings closeness in the neighborhoods of Pakistan.

Anyways, it will be celebrated and no one can stop it

 

[Justcrazy]

What has satans birthday got to do here.

Who are you to claim what is permissible and what is not?

The discussion here is basically a group of people having issues with how another group of people are enjoying a festivity and making up their own definition of what is permissible and what is not.

You will not find evidence for each and everything we do on earth from a religions perspective.

As for the last paragraph, i was telling you how the festivity is celebrated in Pakistan and brings closeness in the neighborhoods of Pakistan.

Anyways, it will be celebrated and no one can stop it

Satan birthday is an example , to show that you are free to do whatever you want .

For example tomorrow you can start praying 4 rakkats salah in maghrib istead of three , no one in Pakistan or pakpassion can stop you from that act. Its your choice , but in the context of Islam it will be wrong and will not be accepted as salah. Because you have to pray according to what prophet Muhammad has done.

In Islam what ever is considered as religious activity we find proof , if we do not , that is innovation. I would like to know what religious activity you found that does not have any reference in Quran or hadeeth.

The bring closeness in neighborhoods you do not need to resort to Innovations there are other ways to do that. To give dawah to a alcoholic person you do not have to indulge in alcohol yourself.

It will be celebrated and does not make it right. Here we are not discussing whether we can stop it or not , we are discussing its authenticity in the light of Quran and hadeeth. So , it would be appreciated if you can throw some light in the perspective of Islam , by sticking to the topic of thread.

 

[Major]

Satan birthday is an example , to show that you are free to do whatever you want .

For example tomorrow you can start praying 4 rakkats salah in maghrib istead of three , no one in Pakistan or pakpassion can stop you from that act. Its your choice , but in the context of Islam it will be wrong and will not be accepted as salah. Because you have to pray according to what prophet Muhammad has done.

In Islam what ever is considered as religious activity we find proof , if we do not , that is innovation. I would like to know what religious activity you found that does not have any reference in Quran or hadeeth.

The bring closeness in neighborhoods you do not need to resort to Innovations there are other ways to do that. To give dawah to a alcoholic person you do not have to indulge in alcohol yourself.

It will be celebrated and does not make it right. Here we are not discussing whether we can stop it or not , we are discussing its authenticity in the light of Quran and hadeeth. So , it would be appreciated if you can throw some light in the perspective of Islam , by sticking to the topic of thread.

There is no innovation. His birthday would be celebrated as a festivity.

If we can have lgbt parades and what not, than i see no harm in a community getting together to celebrate the prophets birthday.

Discussing its authenticity is irrelevent. What is discussed in Quran is known, and what is not discussed is also known. For each worldly matter not discussed in Quran we make that thing non permissible?

Like i said, its a festivity that people who dont celebrate try hard to find sources from religion to make sure others dont celebrate it.

The thread isnt really about finding evidences. Thankfully in Pakistan we celebrate it

 

[Justcrazy]

There is no innovation. His birthday would be celebrated as a festivity.

If we can have lgbt parades and what not, than i see no harm in a community getting together to celebrate the prophets birthday.

Discussing its authenticity is irrelevent. What is discussed in Quran is known, and what is not discussed is also known. For each worldly matter not discussed in Quran we make that thing non permissible?

Like i said, its a festivity that people who dont celebrate try hard to find sources from religion to make sure others dont celebrate it.

The thread isnt really about finding evidences. Thankfully in Pakistan we celebrate it

No , that is your opinion , Mawlid is celebrated not as a cultural thing but as a part of deen. has any barelvi scholar ever said that it is a useless thing to celebrate ? What they say is it is Mustahab . You cannot inject your views into the barelvis mindset.

Again you going around in the cycle , doing something cannot make that thing right .

Yes , all worldly matters are not discussed in quran and hadeeth , but that was not what I wrote , I wrote regarding religious matters .

The purpose of discussion is what we are here for , in discussions you have to back up your opinions with evidence . Otherwise just say it is your opinion , do not bring Islam into that. Islam is what is written in books , not what we invent ourselves.

For something to exist you need sources , not for something not to exist.

In pakistan you also have Mujras , I am sure you are thankful for that as well.

 

[Major]

No , that is your opinion , Mawlid is celebrated not as a cultural thing but as a part of deen. has any barelvi scholar ever said that it is a useless thing to celebrate ? What they say is it is Mustahab . You cannot inject your views into the barelvis mindset.

Again you going around in the cycle , doing something cannot make that thing right .

Yes , all worldly matters are not discussed in quran and hadeeth , but that was not what I wrote , I wrote regarding religious matters .

The purpose of discussion is what we are here for , in discussions you have to back up your opinions with evidence . Otherwise just say it is your opinion , do not bring Islam into that. Islam is what is written in books , not what we invent ourselves.

For something to exist you need sources , not for something not to exist.

In pakistan you also have Mujras , I am sure you are thankful for that as well.

wow, so now celebrating Milad is being equivalent to a Mujra.

People like you tend to go crazy and say insensitive stuff while not knowing what to defend.

Like i have said, people will celebrate Milad, and those that have an issue with it will keep on frowning upon it and pass judgements.

But thank God the majority sees it as a positive festivity.

 

[shaz619]

No , that is your opinion , Mawlid is celebrated not as a cultural thing but as a part of deen. has any barelvi scholar ever said that it is a useless thing to celebrate ? What they say is it is Mustahab . You cannot inject your views into the barelvis mindset.

Again you going around in the cycle , doing something cannot make that thing right .

Yes , all worldly matters are not discussed in quran and hadeeth , but that was not what I wrote , I wrote regarding religious matters .

The purpose of discussion is what we are here for , in discussions you have to back up your opinions with evidence . Otherwise just say it is your opinion , do not bring Islam into that. Islam is what is written in books , not what we invent ourselves.

For something to exist you need sources , not for something not to exist.

In pakistan you also have Mujras , I am sure you are thankful for that as well.

Well well well, if it isn’t PP’s very own Abu Hamzah spewing crap as per usual once a year, it’s due to the vermin who worship the school of though of Al-Wahab that the muslims are vilified around the world, there is no room for your tik tik boom. How about you keep this energy with suicide bombers and criticise them then showcase your abnormal ignorance?

 

[Justcrazy]

wow, so now celebrating Milad is being equivalent to a Mujra.

People like you tend to go crazy and say insensitive stuff while not knowing what to defend.

Like i have said, people will celebrate Milad, and those that have an issue with it will keep on frowning upon it and pass judgements.

But thank God the majority sees it as a positive festivity.

Did I say that it is equivalent ?

I have said multiple times you can celebrate whatever you want , but that will never be correct according to Islam , unless you provide Islamic evidence.

 

[Major]

Did I say that it is equivalent ?

I have said multiple times you can celebrate whatever you want , but that will never be correct according to Islam , unless you provide Islamic evidence.

it wil not be correct according to you. You are not Islam. Leave it to that.

You are just passing judgements upon judgements and acting the tehkaydar of Islam here.

 

[Justcrazy]

Well well well, if it isn’t PP’s very own Abu Hamzah spewing crap as per usual once a year, it’s due to the vermin who worship the school of though of Al-Wahab that the muslims are vilified around the world, there is no room for your tik tik boom. How about you keep this energy with suicide bombers and criticise them then showcase your abnormal ignorance?

Can you show me a single post where I have supported those people ? If you can I am wrong , if you cannot you should apologize .

I have on multiple occasions spoken against the saudi kingship.

Be a man now and show where I have supported the saudi regime or apologize for what you have written.

 

[Justcrazy]

it wil not be correct according to you. You are not Islam. Leave it to that.

You are just passing judgements upon judgements and acting the tehkaydar of Islam here.

I am waiting give me evidence from Islam and prove me wrong .

Show me where did the prophet or his companions celebrated this , and kick me out . Emotional rants are not evidence me friend.

 

[Major]

I am waiting give me evidence from Islam and prove me wrong .

Show me where did the prophet or his companions celebrated this , and kick me out . Emotional rants are not evidence me friend.

I have already answered, that Islam doesnt provide evidence for each and everything, and this occasion is a festive one.

I dont care what you have to say or not here to convince you about anything.

 

[Justcrazy]

I have already answered, that Islam doesnt provide evidence for each and everything, and this occasion is a festive one.

I dont care what you have to say or not here to convince you about anything.

Which thing related to Islam there is no evidence for , can you share one such thing here ?

None of us are here to convince , did prophet Muhammad convince everyone , even with his miracles? Allah swt says to give the message .

Now , kindly show me what aspect of Islam there is no evidence and we are doing that.

 

[Major]

Which thing related to Islam there is no evidence for , can you share one such thing here ?

None of us are here to convince , did prophet Muhammad convince everyone , even with his miracles? Allah swt says to give the message .

Now , kindly show me what aspect of Islam there is no evidence and we are doing that.

i am not here to convince anyone. Like i have said i will and many others will continue to celebrate it.

 

[Justcrazy]

i am not here to convince anyone. Like i have said i will and many others will continue to celebrate it.

That you have repeated a million times and I answered that also.

Now why do you not give evidence of your claim that there are religious things which people do which do not have evidence. At least if you lied be a man and accept that.

 

[shamaan]

Dear @shamaan

Then we are done.

There is no evidence of a specific date in Qur'aan and Sunnah. A person should celebrate the noble birth of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) anytime and every time.

Fasting on (any) Monday is established so no issues.

I have no issues with your point but what I am issue is that @just crazy believes it is haram/Sinful.

 

[shamaan]

Okay , that is exactly why I copy pasted my previous answer. The Muslim hadeeth is misrepresented by Barelvi moulvis. This is not the one fault , there are other issues where they have fabricated and made aqeedahs themselves which have n o relevance in Quran and Hadeeth.

You yourself read the hadeeth , is there any mention of bidah? When the prophet explicitly said ALL Bidahs are misguided , did he differentiate ? NO.

So once prophet has said something about religion , No matter what a companion says or a Mufassir says or a Mujhtahid says , it does not matter. Final authority is the prophet because HE is the source of revelation.

As you said all biddah are misguided so make sure u go to work on a donkey,Make sure u don't use calender for prayer times.

From your muftis.

The position of the Deobandi Ulama is that, not only is it permissible to have a “gathering” of Mawlid, rather it is an act of great virtue, as long as the gathering is free from the unlawful or reprehensible activities, such as free intermingling of the sexes, excessive wasteful spending, fixing of a particular date, etc, and it is not held to be something necessary to do such that those who choose not to participate are considered to be in the wrong.

The above is the Deobandi viewpoint and it would be inappropriate to force it upon them that they totally reject having “gatherings” of Mawlid. As mentioned earlier, it is wrong to force upon others their beliefs and opinions; rather we should take what they say at face value. The fundamental book that explains the viewpoints of the Deobandi Ulama is al-Muhannad ala al-Mufannad compiled by Shaykh Mawlana Khalil Ahmad al-Saharanpuri and endorsed by many scholars, such as Hakim al-Umma Shaykh Mawlana Ashraf Ali al-Tahanawi, Shaykh al-Hind Mawlana Mahmud al-Hasan Deobandi and many others (Allah have mercy on them all).

 

[shamaan]

Why is it not harming... You think that men and women on streets (Same streets) is not harming??? This is not allowed in Islam

ANy biddat is biddat.

How can we celebrate if we really have to?? By FASTING like PROPHET MUHAMMAD (SAW) did.

Bro ISIS claim they are Muslims doesn't that mean they are no same way if women and men are gathering does that mean it's right no.

 

[shamaan]

You need to understand, you can't just come up with your own interpretations when we are just layman. This is why I rely on guidance from scholars and at the same time establish if there is a logical basis for their views.

You can do what you want in your own time, but please can I kindly request for you to not go around justifying something when you have no grasp of what you're talking about.

@Justcrazy days we can't rely on guidance from scholars.

 

[shamaan]

Some of the antics in the UK make us look silly. Molvis with mehndi stained beards sitting in horse and carriage with haar on them and people chanting holding up traffic.

How will that send a positive message of Islam?

I like what many Shias do on day of martyrdom of Imam Hussain they give out food and donate blood to be of use to society.

The milad babas should do something similar so people learn about our Prophet rather than make nuisance.

They also hit themselves.....

 

[Justcrazy]

I have no issues with your point but what I am issue is that @just crazy believes it is haram/Sinful.

The hadeeth says every innovation is misguidance , that is not my words , those are words of hadeeth. Do you understand that .

 

[Justcrazy]

As you said all biddah are misguided so make sure u go to work on a donkey,Make sure u don't use calender for prayer times.

From your muftis.

The position of the Deobandi Ulama is that, not only is it permissible to have a “gathering” of Mawlid, rather it is an act of great virtue, as long as the gathering is free from the unlawful or reprehensible activities, such as free intermingling of the sexes, excessive wasteful spending, fixing of a particular date, etc, and it is not held to be something necessary to do such that those who choose not to participate are considered to be in the wrong.

The above is the Deobandi viewpoint and it would be inappropriate to force it upon them that they totally reject having “gatherings” of Mawlid. As mentioned earlier, it is wrong to force upon others their beliefs and opinions; rather we should take what they say at face value. The fundamental book that explains the viewpoints of the Deobandi Ulama is al-Muhannad ala al-Mufannad compiled by Shaykh Mawlana Khalil Ahmad al-Saharanpuri and endorsed by many scholars, such as Hakim al-Umma Shaykh Mawlana Ashraf Ali al-Tahanawi, Shaykh al-Hind Mawlana Mahmud al-Hasan Deobandi and many others (Allah have mercy on them all).

These are the very excuses which grave worshiping Moulvis make. And unfortunately common naive people feel happy they have found a brilliant rebuttal.

Using donkey or car , or bike has nothing to do with religion. The Muslims , Christians , jews , sikhs etc all use that.
Using calendar is just a means of checking date , again it has nothing to do with religion. Its not that if I use a calender I will get rewarded for that.

Brother , I do not care what Deobandi scholars wrote or say or what barelvi scholars say or what ahle hadeeth say. What I want to see is evidence , if you provide me with that , I will accept your stance without any question.

By the its funny to see you write Allah have mercy with deobandi scholars names , because Mr Ahmad raza Khan gave fatwa of kufr against them , and that has been endorsed even by modern day barelvi scholars.

 

[Justcrazy]

@Justcrazy days we can't rely on guidance from scholars.

One set of scholars say it is mustahab to kiss thumbs when name of the prophet is uttered , other says it is innovation. Whom will we rely ?

We will go back to books and see whether companions did that , we find NO. So we will go by latter scholars . Now suddenly people like you will say we are doing this for love of prophet . Innovating new things in Islam is love according to you?

So tomorrow If I say I want to pary 4 rakkats instead of three , and say this is for love of Allah swt , will that be accepted? Why Not ? Love for Allah is less than love for Muhammad SAW ?

 

[topspin]

@Justcrazy days we can't rely on guidance from scholars.

Please elaborate

 

[LordJames]

As you said all biddah are misguided so make sure u go to work on a donkey,Make sure u don't use calender for prayer times.

From your muftis.

The position of the Deobandi Ulama is that, not only is it permissible to have a “gathering” of Mawlid, rather it is an act of great virtue, as long as the gathering is free from the unlawful or reprehensible activities, such as free intermingling of the sexes, excessive wasteful spending, fixing of a particular date, etc, and it is not held to be something necessary to do such that those who choose not to participate are considered to be in the wrong.

The above is the Deobandi viewpoint and it would be inappropriate to force it upon them that they totally reject having “gatherings” of Mawlid. As mentioned earlier, it is wrong to force upon others their beliefs and opinions; rather we should take what they say at face value. The fundamental book that explains the viewpoints of the Deobandi Ulama is al-Muhannad ala al-Mufannad compiled by Shaykh Mawlana Khalil Ahmad al-Saharanpuri and endorsed by many scholars, such as Hakim al-Umma Shaykh Mawlana Ashraf Ali al-Tahanawi, Shaykh al-Hind Mawlana Mahmud al-Hasan Deobandi and many others (Allah have mercy on them all).

Dear Brother @shamaan @Justcrazy & @shaz619 @Suleiman @BouncerGuy

1. It does not talk about celebrating the Birthday of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
2. It doesn't talk about discussing the Birth of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) on a specific day or month or anything like that.
3. It instead talks about discussing the Birth of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) according to the Salaf!

https://dn790008.ca.archive.org/0/items/Al-muhannad-al-al-mufannad-arabicUrdu/Al-muhannad-al-al-mufannad-arabicUrdu.pdf

It says on page 64:

https://ia800609.us.archive.org/35/items/AlMuhannadalaAlMufannadTranslation/Al-Muhannad_%27ala_al-Mufannad_Translation.pdf

Please read it carefully and specifically the part in RED.

Question Twenty One

Do you say that the commemoration of his (Allah bless him and grant him peace) birth is deemed blameworthy (mustaqbah) in the Shari‘ah, from the evil and prohibited innovations (al-bid‘at al- sayyi’ah al-muharramah), or [do you believe] otherwise?

Answer

Far be it that any of the Muslims say, let alone we, ourselves, say, that commemorating his noble birth (upon him blessing and peace), rather even commemorating the dust on his shoes and the urine of his (Allah bless him and grant him peace) camel, are deemed blameworthy in the Shari‘ah, from the evil and prohibited innovations; for, commemorating the states which have the least connection with the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace) is from the most desirable of recommended acts (ahabb al-mandubat) and the greatest of preferable acts (a‘la l- mustahabbat) according to us, whether it is the commemoration of his noble birth or commemoration of his urine, feces, standing, sitting, sleeping and waking as is stated clearly in our treatise called Al-Barahin al-Qati‘ah at various junctures therein, and in the fatwas of our teachers
(mashayikh) (may Allah have mercy on them), as [is mentioned, for example] in the fatwas of Mawlana Ahmad ‘Ali al-Muhaddith al-Saharanpuri, the student of Shah Muhammad Ishaq al-Dahlawi then al-Muhajir al-Makki, which we will quote in translation, that it may become an example of all [the other fatwas]:

He (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked about the milad function, in which manner is it permissible and in which manner is it impermissible? He replied [saying] that:

Commemorating the noble birth of our master, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace) using sound narrations, during times devoid of the obligatory duties of worship, and in forms not contravening the path of the Companions and the people of the three generations whose greatness has been attested to, and [in forms not] containing beliefs that may be conceived of as shirk and bid‘ah, and in manners which do not contravene the conduct of the Companions which is the measure of his (peace be upon him) statement, “What I and my Companions are upon,” and in gatherings free from abominations of the Shari‘ah, is a cause for goodness and blessing, with the condition that it is accompanied by pure intention and sincerity and the belief that it is included within the totality of recommended good remembrances (jumlat al-adhkar al-hasanah al- mandubah), and is not restricted to a time from the times. When it is so, we do not know of any Muslim who rules it to be unlawful (ghayr mashru‘) or bid‘ah. To the end of the fatwa. It is learnt from this that we do not denounce the commemoration of his noble birth. Rather, we denounce the abominable acts that are associated with it as you [may] have seen in the mawludi functions which [take place] in India, of narrating weak and forged narrations, the mixing of men and women, extravagance in lighting candles and decorations, and the belief that it is obligatory, by vilifying, insulting and anathematising those who do not attend their function with them, and other such abominations of the Shari‘ah which are almost not found to be absent from them. If they were free of these abominations, far be it that we say that commemorating the noble birth is abominable and a bid‘ah. How can this ugly belief be suspected of a Muslim? Hence, this attribution to us is also from the inventions of the deceptive lying deviants (Allah Exalted is He disgrace them, and curse them on land and sea and on smooth and rough land).

Zero problems with anyone who discusses the noble Birth and incidents associated with Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) as per the Salaf!

اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ، وَعَلَى آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ، كَمَا صَلَّيْتَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَعَلَى آلِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، إِنَّكَ حَمِيدٌ مَجِيدٌ​

اللَّهُمَّ بَارِكْ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ، وَعَلَى آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ، كَمَا بَارَكْتَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ، وَعَلَى آلِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، إِنَّكَ حَمِيدٌ مَجِيدٌ​

 

[shamaan]

These are the very excuses which grave worshiping Moulvis make. And unfortunately common naive people feel happy they have found a brilliant rebuttal.

Using donkey or car , or bike has nothing to do with religion. The Muslims , Christians , jews , sikhs etc all use that.
Using calendar is just a means of checking date , again it has nothing to do with religion. Its not that if I use a calender I will get rewarded for that.

Brother , I do not care what Deobandi scholars wrote or say or what barelvi scholars say or what ahle hadeeth say. What I want to see is evidence , if you provide me with that , I will accept your stance without any question.

By the its funny to see you write Allah have mercy with deobandi scholars names , because Mr Ahmad raza Khan gave fatwa of kufr against them , and that has been endorsed even by modern day barelvi scholars.

Go back to Ibn Abdullah wahabi najdi.
Like you said EVERY BIDDAH Is misguidance that includes Dean and Dunya stop being a wahabi.

 

[shamaan]

Please elaborate

He said he don't care what scholars said because he knows better than them.

 

[BouncerGuy]

today?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1963326598398317012

 

[shamaan]

today?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1963326598398317012

Prove that it's for the mawlid ?

 

[Suleiman]

Prophet PBUH didn’t celebrate it
The Sahaba RA didn’t celebrate it
The Tabi’uun after them didn’t celebrate it
Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Ahmed, Imam Shafi’i R didn’t celebrate it

Who begun formal celebrations?

Fatimid Dynasty which was Shia in the 11th century.

Celebrating birthdays is a foreign concept to Islam outside of fasting Monday as Prophet PBUH was born Monday, with no specific date and no adopted celebrations from non Muslims- it’s only fasting. The Fatimids adopted it from the Christian’s in Egypt probably celebrating the birth of Prophet Isa PBUH…

And then you had Sufis and so on adopt it as well.

@Justcrazy @LordJames @topspin

Fact check me if I’m wrong. But Shia govt of Fatimids seems like the first institutionalized state sponsored celebration of this event.

And no I’m not talking about just fasting in any Monday or Thursday before the cop out by Ahlul Bid’ah begins

 

[LordJames]

Prophet PBUH didn’t celebrate it
The Sahaba RA didn’t celebrate it
The Tabi’uun after them didn’t celebrate it
Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Ahmed, Imam Shafi’i R didn’t celebrate it

Who begun formal celebrations?

Fatimid Dynasty which was Shia in the 11th century.

Celebrating birthdays is a foreign concept to Islam outside of fasting Monday as Prophet PBUH was born Monday, with no specific date and no adopted celebrations from non Muslims- it’s only fasting. The Fatimids adopted it from the Christian’s in Egypt probably celebrating the birth of Prophet Isa PBUH…

And then you had Sufis and so on adopt it as well.

@Justcrazy @LordJames @topspin

Fact check me if I’m wrong. But Shia govt of Fatimids seems like the first institutionalized state sponsored celebration of this event.

And no I’m not talking about just fasting in any Monday or Thursday before the cop out by Ahlul Bid’ah begins

Nobody celebrated Birthday.

 

[Justcrazy]

Go back to Ibn Abdullah wahabi najdi.
Like you said EVERY BIDDAH Is misguidance that includes Dean and Dunya stop being a wahabi.

Bro , what your sentence is even supposed to mean?

This shows that when you people have no evidence , you resort to abuse and ridicule , and on top of that you have no respect for hadeeth of the prophet. This is the audacity of your misguided moulvis , who are munkar of hadeeth.

I understand why your grave licking Moulvis hate Ibn Abdullah wahabi , the same reasons why idol worshipers hated prophet Muhammad. They worshiped stone made idols , these sufi minded clowns worship idols inside graves.

 

[Justcrazy]

He said he don't care what scholars said because he knows better than them.

I never said that , again you show what a pathetic liar you are. I asked for evidence , I do not do blind taqleed like you. So ask your alive and dead Moulvis to show evidence , instead of lying here to prove your point.

You also did not respond to fatwas of kufr by Ahmad Raza Khan on deobandi scholars whom you called Rahimullah .

Speak up , and answer my points , but we all know you can never do that.

In the above posts also , two of your kind called me terrorist and made big statements , but when asked for evidence have shut up . This is the reality , as soon as you ask for evidence , you people either shut or start making personal attacks.

 

[Justcrazy]

Prophet PBUH didn’t celebrate it
The Sahaba RA didn’t celebrate it
The Tabi’uun after them didn’t celebrate it
Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Ahmed, Imam Shafi’i R didn’t celebrate it

Who begun formal celebrations?

Fatimid Dynasty which was Shia in the 11th century.

Celebrating birthdays is a foreign concept to Islam outside of fasting Monday as Prophet PBUH was born Monday, with no specific date and no adopted celebrations from non Muslims- it’s only fasting. The Fatimids adopted it from the Christian’s in Egypt probably celebrating the birth of Prophet Isa PBUH…

And then you had Sufis and so on adopt it as well.

@Justcrazy @LordJames @topspin

Fact check me if I’m wrong. But Shia govt of Fatimids seems like the first institutionalized state sponsored celebration of this event.

And no I’m not talking about just fasting in any Monday or Thursday before the cop out by Ahlul Bid’ah begins

I have one simple question to everyone who says that we celebrate it because of love for the prophet.

So , will they accept me praying 4 rakkats in fajr prayer or Maghrib prayer , for love of Allah?

WHY NOT ?

I am doing prostration to Allah , praying towards kaba , there is no where written i cannot add one or two rakkats to salah. And I am doing this for Love of Allah .

OR

Can I add one more prostration , that is three instead of two in every rakkat? WHY NOT ? Yes two prostration is proved from hadeeth , but nowhere doing another is impermissible?

I want everyone who supports Good innovation , to answer this , is this permissible or impermissible according to the ?

 

[LordJames]

I have one simple question to everyone who says that we celebrate it because of love for the prophet.

So , will they accept me praying 4 rakkats in fajr prayer or Maghrib prayer , for love of Allah?

WHY NOT ?

I am doing prostration to Allah , praying towards kaba , there is no where written i cannot add one or two rakkats to salah. And I am doing this for Love of Allah .

OR

Can I add one more prostration , that is three instead of two in every rakkat? WHY NOT ? Yes two prostration is proved from hadeeth , but nowhere doing another is impermissible?

I want everyone who supports Good innovation , to answer this , is this permissible or impermissible according to the ?

Cannot be done, obviously. Because the Rakaat of Fajar are legislated in Sunnah and cannot be overwritten.

According to a number of Scholars there is no such thing as "Bid'aa Hasanah" and Shah Waliullah (RA) even said "There is nothing Hasan (good) about Bid'ah as Bid'ah by definition is something which is an exaggeration or addition to Sunnah".

 

[Suleiman]

Cannot be done, obviously. Because the Rakaat of Fajar are legislated in Sunnah and cannot be overwritten.

According to a number of Scholars there is no such thing as "Bid'aa Hasanah" and Shah Waliullah (RA) even said "There is nothing Hasan (good) about Bid'ah as Bid'ah by definition is something which is an exaggeration or addition to Sunnah".

Yep that is the point brother @Justcrazy was making as well, bid’ah is bidah regardless of hasanah (good) or bad… we draw the line in worship where Rasul Ullah SAW drew the line.

Such a simple concept but unfortunately shaitan has tricked many to engage in mental gymnastics to justify bidah and shirk (which many times bidah is the gateway for)

 

[Justcrazy]

Cannot be done, obviously. Because the Rakaat of Fajar are legislated in Sunnah and cannot be overwritten.

According to a number of Scholars there is no such thing as "Bid'aa Hasanah" and Shah Waliullah (RA) even said "There is nothing Hasan (good) about Bid'ah as Bid'ah by definition is something which is an exaggeration or addition to Sunnah".

Thank you. So even a good deed in religion cannot be done for love of Allah. We have to act according to books not our own whims.

 

[Justcrazy]

Yep that is the point brother @Justcrazy was making as well, bid’ah is bidah regardless of hasanah (good) or bad… we draw the line in worship where Rasul Ullah SAW drew the line.

Such a simple concept but unfortunately shaitan has tricked many to engage in mental gymnastics to justify bidah and shirk (which many times bidah is the gateway for)

The issue with bidah e hassanah is that who will determine what is bidah e hassan ? That would mean any person can start doing whatever a person wants to do and call that Bidah e hassanah.

 

[LordJames]

Thank you. So even a good deed in religion cannot be done for love of Allah. We have to act according to books not our own whims.

Absolutely disagree with the "restriction"

The scope of good deeds in Islam is vast and without restrictions as long as it doesn't clash with Qur'aan and Sunnah.

A Mubah (permissible) act is any good deed which doesn't contradict with the Qur'aan and Sunnah. By default any action is Mubah (permissible)

If I am giving stock advice to @sweep_shot as a Muslim it is a permissible act although it is found in the Qur'aan and Sunnah, at no point do I deem stock price advice to be Sunnah, otherwise it will turn it into a Bid'ah, I merely regard it as a good deed to a Brother.

1. To praise Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
2. To speak about Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
3. To learn about Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
4. To teach about Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
5. To defend the honor of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)

Are all Mubah (permissible) acts but we don't tie them to a specific day (for example Birthday) because it was never done.

To speak about the miracles associated with Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) is a Mubah (permissible) and no restrictions on it.

The people who are choosing to do all of the above on a specific day or month are restricting it, the only exception being fasting on Monday which is authentic.

 

[Justcrazy]

Absolutely disagree with the "restriction"

The scope of good deeds in Islam is vast and without restrictions as long as it doesn't clash with Qur'aan and Sunnah.

A Mubah (permissible) act is any good deed which doesn't contradict with the Qur'aan and Sunnah. By default any action is Mubah (permissible)

If I am giving stock advice to @sweep_shot as a Muslim it is a permissible act although it is found in the Qur'aan and Sunnah, at no point do I deem stock price advice to be Sunnah, otherwise it will turn it into a Bid'ah, I merely regard it as a good deed to a Brother.

1. To praise Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
2. To speak about Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
3. To learn about Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
4. To teach about Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
5. To defend the honor of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)

Are all Mubah (permissible) acts but we don't tie them to a specific day (for example Birthday) because it was never done.

To speak about the miracles associated with Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) is a Mubah (permissible) and no restrictions on it.

The people who are choosing to do all of the above on a specific day or month are restricting it, the only exception being fasting on Monday which is authentic.

The bullet points you made , are told in the quran and hadeeth , we get reference for them. That is what I meant .

 

[LordJames]

Barwelee Condemnation of Bidah:

Deobandi Condemnation of Bidah:

Invented 400 (or even 600) years after Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)

 

[BouncerGuy]

AGAIN... BIDDAT IS BIDDAT... There is no term like BIDDAT-E-HASNA... The thing that was not done by Sahaba as well.

 

[Ball Blazer]

List of Ahlul Bait e Rasul and Sahaba who celebrated 12 Rabiul Awwal:

1. ............
2. ............
3. ............
4. ............
.
.
.
.
n. ............

 

[BouncerGuy]

List of Ahlul Bait e Rasul and Sahaba who celebrated 12 Rabiul Awwal:

1. ............
2. ............
3. ............
4. ............
.
.
.
.
n. ............

Nobody can prove it until Qyamat... This biddat needs to end.

 

[IAJ]

One set of scholars say it is mustahab to kiss thumbs when name of the prophet is uttered , other says it is innovation. Whom will we rely ?

We will go back to books and see whether companions did that , we find NO. So we will go by latter scholars . Now suddenly people like you will say we are doing this for love of prophet . Innovating new things in Islam is love according to you?

So tomorrow If I say I want to pary 4 rakkats instead of three , and say this is for love of Allah swt , will that be accepted? Why Not ? Love for Allah is less than love for Muhammad SAW ?

This is quite a strange example, and you seem to be genuinely confused. You're not alone, and I sincerely pray that Allah (SWT) removes your confusion — Ameen.

The reason I say you're confused is because you're comparing two completely different matters. You cannot reduce the number of fard units in for instance Salat al-Asr from four to three — those four are obligatory and fixed. That is a matter of clear religious obligation.

However, kissing the thumbs when the name of the Prophet (saw) is mentioned is a completely different issue. It is based on a weak hadith.The specialists of Hadiths [i.e., Muhaddith] and the jurists [Fuqaha’] and other (scholars) have said that one is permitted, and in fact is recommended, to use weak Hadith in matters of ‘extra acts of devotion’ [Fada’il] and in ‘arousing one’s desire to do good and inspiring one’s fear from doing evil’ [Targhib wa al-Tarhib]–as long as it is not a fabricated Hadith.
Anyways, not going into any long discussion here. I have my reliable scholars I follow and their knowledge is coming through a sound chain.

I won’t go into a long debate here. I follow reliable scholars whose knowledge is rooted in authentic chains of transmission.

So my advice to my brothers and sisters: don’t be discouraged by those who try to stop you from celebrating the blessed birth (Mawlid) of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (saw). He (saw) is the mercy to all the Worlds and this is what Allah's say in the holy Quran; Say, 'In the bounty of Allah and in His mercy – in that let them rejoice; it is better than what they accumulate (10:58)

 

[IAJ]

Nobody can prove it until Qyamat... This biddat needs to end.

With all respect brother. Celebrating the mawlid will never end In sha Allah. You can try as hard as you want.

 

[Justcrazy]

AGAIN... BIDDAT IS BIDDAT... There is no term like BIDDAT-E-HASNA... The thing that was not done by Sahaba as well.

Exactly , that is what people need to understand. Our issue is that whenever any Islamic belief is discussed , we always tend to give opinions of scholars as evidence. This is NOT the right way , scholars opinions will be accepted only with evidence from Quran and hadeeth.

Scholars have differences of opinion on several matters , so we need to go back to the prophet and salaf . This does not mean disrespecting any scholar.

 

[Justcrazy]

This is quite a strange example, and you seem to be genuinely confused. You're not alone, and I sincerely pray that Allah (SWT) removes your confusion — Ameen.

The reason I say you're confused is because you're comparing two completely different matters. You cannot reduce the number of fard units in for instance Salat al-Asr from four to three — those four are obligatory and fixed. That is a matter of clear religious obligation.

However, kissing the thumbs when the name of the Prophet (saw) is mentioned is a completely different issue. It is based on a weak hadith.The specialists of Hadiths [i.e., Muhaddith] and the jurists [Fuqaha’] and other (scholars) have said that one is permitted, and in fact is recommended, to use weak Hadith in matters of ‘extra acts of devotion’ [Fada’il] and in ‘arousing one’s desire to do good and inspiring one’s fear from doing evil’ [Targhib wa al-Tarhib]–as long as it is not a fabricated Hadith.
Anyways, not going into any long discussion here. I have my reliable scholars I follow and their knowledge is coming through a sound chain.

I won’t go into a long debate here. I follow reliable scholars whose knowledge is rooted in authentic chains of transmission.

So my advice to my brothers and sisters: don’t be discouraged by those who try to stop you from celebrating the blessed birth (Mawlid) of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (saw). He (saw) is the mercy to all the Worlds and this is what Allah's say in the holy Quran; Say, 'In the bounty of Allah and in His mercy – in that let them rejoice; it is better than what they accumulate (10:58)

Brother , I understand why you feel I am confused. The reason is that I do not think you have gone through previous posts.

All the posts are in a chain , where I am responding to different points put forward. You are looking at my post in isolation with the rest of the posts in the thread.

The reply was to the point that was raised by fellow PPer that there is no evidence of permissibility of Milad but impermissibility is also not proved.

Your next point is also misunderstood. Read my comment again. I did not say the reduction in number of rakkats , I said addition in number of rakkats, for example If I want to pray extra in maghrib and make it four , will I be allowed ?

I am doing it out of love for Allah ? If doing so called bidat e hassana is okay for the love of the prophet , why Not Allah . Also according to barelvi belief , here we do not have any hadith which says I cannot pray extra rakkat , if there is, feel free to show me.

Can you show me one piece of evidence from salaf who followed this custom of kissing thumbs ?

Those reliable scholars who have great knowledge , why cannot they give any evidence of this practice ? And what about those scholars who rejected this , were they fake ?


Say, 'In the bounty of Allah and in His mercy – in that let them rejoice; it is better than what they accumulate (10:58)

The companions , the salafs etc did not understand the meaning of this ayats , those whose mother tongue was arabic and so called scholars who arrived hundreds of years ago understood it !!!! What a Logic

 

[Justcrazy]

With all respect brother. Celebrating the mawlid will never end In sha Allah. You can try as hard as you want.

Not ending does not make it right my friend. This thread is not about trying to stop something , this thread is about exposing the innovation by sufis and grave worshipers.

there are many wrong things happening against Islam , you think we can stop all those ? NO . So try to understand the purpose of discussion on social media.

 

[shamaan]

Bro , what your sentence is even supposed to mean?

This shows that when you people have no evidence , you resort to abuse and ridicule , and on top of that you have no respect for hadeeth of the prophet. This is the audacity of your misguided moulvis , who are munkar of hadeeth.

I understand why your grave licking Moulvis hate Ibn Abdullah wahabi , the same reasons why idol worshipers hated prophet Muhammad. They worshiped stone made idols , these sufi minded clowns worship idols inside graves.

You wahabis destroyed the tombs of  Jannat Baqi.our Prophet always warned us off the people of najd.Salahahuddin Ayubi was was sufi,Imaam Sayuti sufi,imaam Asqlani sufi many.

Do you believe Allah has a literal hand ????

 

[shamaan]

I never said that , again you show what a pathetic liar you are. I asked for evidence , I do not do blind taqleed like you. So ask your alive and dead Moulvis to show evidence , instead of lying here to prove your point.

You also did not respond to fatwas of kufr by Ahmad Raza Khan on deobandi scholars whom you called Rahimullah .

Speak up , and answer my points , but we all know you can never do that.

In the above posts also , two of your kind called me terrorist and made big statements , but when asked for evidence have shut up . This is the reality , as soon as you ask for evidence , you people either shut or start making personal attacks.

Everyone Biddah is misguidance show me hadith that states only in islam or in deen.

 

[shamaan]

Nobody can prove it until Qyamat... This biddat needs to end.

50 percent off the ummah is commitig biddah......

 

[shamaan]

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen." The People said, "And also on our Najd." He said, "O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham (north)! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen." The people said, "O Allah's Apostle! And also on our Najd." I think the third time the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "There (in Najd) is the place of earthquakes and afflictions and from there comes out the side of the head of Satan."

The home off wahabism (Najd)

 

[LordJames]

50 percent off the ummah is commitig biddah......

50% or 60% doesn't mean anything. In fact, at one point there were just a few believers in Makkah and the whole place was filled with idol worship so were the minority incorrect?

[6:116] ˹O Prophet!˺ If you were to obey most of those on earth, they would lead you away from Allah’s Way. They follow nothing but assumptions and do nothing but lie.

If the day of the Birth of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) cannot be confirmed via authentic sources, it is not possible for the Ummah to have ever celebrated a Birthday.

 

[shamaan]

50% or 60% doesn't mean anything. In fact, at one point there were just a few believers in Makkah and the whole place was filled with idol worship so were the minority incorrect?

[6:116] ˹O Prophet!˺ If you were to obey most of those on earth, they would lead you away from Allah’s Way. They follow nothing but assumptions and do nothing but lie.

If the day of the Birth of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) cannot be confirmed via authentic sources, it is not possible for the Ummah to have ever celebrated a Birthday.

Read hadith about 73 sects in islam and regarding the main body.Like I said to justcrazy give me hadith were it says Biddah is only from Deen. (EVERY BIDDAH)