Should Pakistan be playing both Naseem Shah and Shaheen Shah Afridi?

[Major]

Both are inexperienced bowlers. Should both of them be even playing?
I believe only one of them should be playing while some experience pacer should make way.

 

[Abdullah719]

Sohail Khan, Imran Khan, Usman Shinwari, Faheem Ashraf, etc. are the potential replacements.

When Shaheen and Naseem get it right, they are far better than the above.

 

[Sir-fraz]

Better to give them experiance over the replacements that we have. Im sure both of them will get 5w haul by thr end of the tour

 

[Usman Chadda]

They should both be given a solid phainta in the dressing room. Bowled like dummies to a tail-ender, Shaheen more so.

The replacements are rubbish, so we can't drop them.

 

[Kaka4pope]

Yep I think so - to be honest it’s only Amir that I think could mix it up but that ship has sailed.

We do need to test the outside edge more with the new ball, in the pitch it up conditions early on...

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Apparently the pitches against West indies and Pakistan. Have gone softer during the middle overs and there has been none or little reverse swing

I don't think shaheen is the final product, although he has good spells
M amir would have the same problems

Pakistan need some pace in those Middle overs from either usman shinwari or sohail khan.
Maybe get hasnain into the team too

 

[Mamoon]

Shaheen is miles ahead of Naseem.

Naseem is extremely overhyped. He is just another Hasan Ali type bowler who will fade into oblivion soon. He is not as good as he himself thinks.

 

[Jeetlodil]

especially since Abbas does nothing with the old ball

 

[Kaka4pope]

Apparently the pitches against West indies and Pakistan. Have gone softer during the middle overs and there has been none or little reverse swing

I don't think shaheen is the final product, although he has good spells
M amir would have the same problems

Pakistan need some pace in those Middle overs from either usman shinwari or sohail khan.
Maybe get hasnain into the team too

Not asking for his return but think you underestimate Amir, may not be as quick but he is skilful - moves it across right handers from over, Shaheen still to develop that.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Shaheen is miles ahead of Naseem.

Naseem is extremely overhyped. He is just another Hasan Ali type bowler who will fade into oblivion soon. He is not as good as he himself thinks.

Shaheen isn't miles ahead of Imran Khan, forget Naseem.

He gifted England the momentum in those brain dead three overs to Woakes.

 

[Markhor]

Shaheen is miles ahead of Naseem.

Naseem is extremely overhyped. He is just another Hasan Ali type bowler who will fade into oblivion soon. He is not as good as he himself thinks.

Didn't understand all this staring and chattering (especially after the Burns wicket) when the match wasn't won yet ?

This fake macho crap always comes back to bite us.

 

[Mamoon]

What's all this staring and chattering (especially after the Burns sendoff) when the match isn't won yet ?

This fake macho crap always comes back to bite us.

For some reason, PCB have marketed him as some bowling version of Tendulkar who is Test class at 16-17.

All of the fake hype has gone to his head and you can see his arrogance and over the top attitude from the moon.

Expect him to get clobbered in the next two matches. There is nothing special in his bowling apart from that odd delivery that holds its line.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Not asking for his return but think you underestimate Amir, may not be as quick but he is skilful - moves it across right handers from over, Shaheen still to develop that.

If it was amir and we'd lost the test, there would be three after thread on how useless hes become and how much skill he's lost etc

Not saying shaheen should get the same reaction but I would leave m amir out for now and not just because he's retired
Sohail khan is next in line if anyone is dropped

 

[Ab Fan]

It was quite evident that for all the skills and pace they had, they are raw and their development is still in progress.

All the hyperboles like next Wasim and Waqar should be stopped now given Pakistan's track record of developing their genuinely talented fast bowlers in last 20 years.

Naseem Shah was overbowled by their captain. He needs to be given rest in next test match otherwise it will affect his game and can suffer an injury as well.

 

[Major]

I think we will have to bring in either sohail khan or wahab riaz.

Having both naseem and ssa doesnt help us.

Might aswell through usman shinwari in

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Just like in Australia this is all a bit too much for these talented youngsters.

Pakistan needs to talk to M Amir for one test and also consider Wahab. It will give us extra 40-50 runs as well with tailenders who can hold a bat.

Are Miisbah and co smart enough to realize this?

 

[Kaka4pope]

If it was amir and we'd lost the test, there would be three after thread on how useless hes become and how much skill he's lost etc

Not saying shaheen should get the same reaction but I would leave m amir out for now and not just because he's retired
Sohail khan is next in line if anyone is dropped

Amir gets wickets in his return spells (2016 and 2018), Sohail historically doesn’t and we already have upfront wickets in Abbas.

Not saying for Amir’s return but no doubting his ability in England.

 

[Bhaijaan]

They are not world class test bowlers yet but they will be soon. Pakistan must back them. There will be losses like these but to be honest both innings combined it wasn't still a disasterous bowling effort altogether. Batting was a huge let down. Looking back even in first inning, Masood and Bobby were saving grace

 

[Markhor]

Some folks here trot out the line:

"He'll just rot in domestic cricket. He'll learn more playing internationals."

When did Test cricket suddenly become a finishing school ? Like it or not, you learn your craft playing 4 day cricket. It didn't do Abbas or Yasir any harm.

But now we've invested in them, we must back them.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Amir gets wickets in his return spells (2016 and 2018), Sohail historically doesn’t and we already have upfront wickets in Abbas.

Not saying for Amir’s return but no doubting his ability in England.

There's more chance of imran khan replacing naseem shah in the next match then there is of m amir returning
He's also not played any cricket since the psl

Wahab riaz might come out of retirement but he would have bowled exactly like shaheen shah did as he has in the past and its why he retired from tests

 

[Ahmed_99]

Problem is there isn't that many alternatives especially with the squad we have.
But there is no doubt both of them are talented and they did trouble England at times so we should support them. With time they'll improve further and I feel that personally these 2 are the type of characters who are gonna have fire in their belly and come out angry and perform well in the next match

 

[KingKhan12]

Get Wahab in. He would knocked over Woakes. Plus add bat depth.

 

[Amoeba]

I think it was fair enough to play both in this test but we will need to rotate during the series. I do think they aren't as potent as hyped up but that is to be expected given their experience. Any of the great Pakistani attacks would have defended 275 on a wearing pitch - regardless of whether saliva can be applied to the ball.
Wahab is worth a try for Shaheen - although I would drop / rest Naseem. I like Sohail Khan in English conditions but him and Abbas are a bit samey - at least pace wise.

 

[Kaka4pope]

There's more chance of imran khan replacing naseem shah in the next match then there is of m amir returning
He's also not played any cricket since the psl

Wahab riaz might come out of retirement but he would have bowled exactly like shaheen shah did as he has in the past and its why he retired from tests

Again said that ship has sailed but doesn’t change the fact he’s a skilful bowler in the UK (and elsewhere to be honest) and is better than the options mentioned by the OP.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

Didn't understand all this staring and chattering (especially after the Burns wicket) when the match wasn't won yet ?

This fake macho crap always comes back to bite us.

We are all hurt but why are you are toeing to his negativity?
There is nothing wrong with Naseem's attitude. You cant be a good fast bowler without an edge to your personality.
There are a couple of adjustments needed to his approach to the crease and his effectiveness will increase greatly.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

For some reason, PCB have marketed him as some bowling version of Tendulkar who is Test class at 16-17.

All of the fake hype has gone to his head and you can see his arrogance and over the top attitude from the moon.

Expect him to get clobbered in the next two matches. There is nothing special in his bowling apart from that odd delivery that holds its line.

how many wicket taking tools did steyn have on the 2004 england tour?
He already has more in his arsenal. Just needs a technical adjustment and some experience .
It is better if you talk about batsmen because you really know nothing about fast bowling

 

[Abdullah719]

For some reason, PCB have marketed him as some bowling version of Tendulkar who is Test class at 16-17.

All of the fake hype has gone to his head and you can see his arrogance and over the top attitude from the moon.

Expect him to get clobbered in the next two matches. There is nothing special in his bowling apart from that odd delivery that holds its line.

I didn’t see any arrogance and over the top attitude.

In fact, he was arguably more reserved in this Test than he has been in the past. He only once really went right up to the batsman and gave him a stare, and that was after beating him with a bouncer (don’t recall who the batsman was).

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

I didn’t see any arrogance and over the top attitude.

In fact, he was arguably more reserved in this Test than he has been in the past. He only once really went right up to the batsman and gave him a stare, and that was after beating him with a bouncer (don’t recall who the batsman was).

Why doesn't his negativity get moderated enough? I sm serious.
It is a huge downer to have this toxic pessimist painting his gloomy mentality over everyone?

 

[Zaz]

They are great talents but are still learning on the job, in 5 years they will be box office

Ideally they should be apprentices not leading the attacks yet But who replaces them? The cupboard is bare

 

[ethan hunt]

Shaheen dissapointed me with his bowling intelligence in this test match .

I'd like to see Naseem get the new ball down the line in this series , i think he has a 3-4 wicket spell in him with the new ball.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Keep Shaheen in. Only one should play at a time. Naseem needs rest. Bring some experience - Wahab or Sohail will do, but I'd prefer Sohail. Also, they will add batting depth - both are very handy number 8 batsmen.

 

[coy0607]

Unless you can name a better Test bowler, they should be playing for Pakistan. They're 2 of the 3 best fast bowlers Pak has for Test cricket

 

[Markhor]

They are great talents but are still learning on the job, in 5 years they will be box office

Ideally they should be apprentices not leading the attacks yet But who replaces them? The cupboard is bare

[MENTION=21715]Zaz[/MENTION] I've been hearing this line about "this player will be a legend in 5 years" in Pakistan cricket for the last 20 years about so many guys.

It reminds me of the Delboy Trotter of Only Fools and Horses quote "Some day Rodney we'll be millionaires."

I'm not saying drop Shaheen and Naseem, they are the best fast bowling prospects we've had in a decade.

But [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is right - why do Pakistan play so many teenagers and over 30 players with nobody between the age of 20-30 who are more seasoned ?

Does it kill somebody to play a full season of FC cricket before promoting them ? I'm not talking 3-4 match cameos. Look at Shadab Khan. He's played more Test matches than 4 day matches, then we ask why doesn't he bowl with more control ? What do we expect ?

 

[Xoib]

I thought Nasim was very good especially in this innings was a bit unlucky as two edges fell short of slips and a woakes top edge landed in no man's land. He has made his debut couple of season too early but now he is here I back him to come good in shallah

 

[Grunge101]

They should both play in the next match simply because there are no better replacements available.
Theyre both young and inexperienced and need a leader to give them a plan and guide them through it.. They both looked like headless chickens today.

 

[Grunge101]

With Naseem weve seen two extremes now bowling in overseas tests.
Australia 2019... Too short, too many bouncers, not enough consistency.
England 2020...too docile, no bouncers, no aggression, basically trying to be Abbas 2.0

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Again said that ship has sailed but doesn’t change the fact he’s a skilful bowler in the UK (and elsewhere to be honest) and is better than the options mentioned by the OP.

Dilbar is another option if we just want to throw another one in at the deep end

 

[Zaz]

[MENTION=21715]Zaz[/MENTION] I've been hearing this line about "this player will be a legend in 5 years" in Pakistan cricket for the last 20 years about so many guys.

It reminds me of the Delboy Trotter of Only Fools and Horses quote "Some day Rodney we'll be millionaires."

I'm not saying drop Shaheen and Naseem, they are the best fast bowling prospects we've had in a decade.

But [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is right - why do Pakistan play so many teenagers and over 30 players with nobody between the age of 20-30 who are more seasoned ?

Does it kill somebody to play a full season of FC cricket before promoting them ? I'm not talking 3-4 match cameos. Look at Shadab Khan. He's played more Test matches than 4 day matches, then we ask why doesn't he bowl with more control ? What do we expect ?

its true we either play them too young or too old Fawads been wasted for years Many others career spoilt either playing them before they are good enough or after their peak

Its something that needs to be looked at

There must some 24 yr old out there with fc results in batting or bowling that need investing in than teenagers or old age pensioners

 

[Rayyman]

Naseem had a couple good moments in the 1st Test vs Eng; but I would rest him in the next match.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Pakistan lost because of their batting not bowling. Unless there is a need to rest them, both should play and get the experience.

 

[AAli98]

Eh these 2 were the next Wasim & waqar 5 days ago.. theyr too inexperienced bowl at least 2 trash balls n over.

If misbah & Azhar want to save there bacon they better beg Mohammed Amir to come out of retirement otherwise root/ butler will eat the 140kph gun barrel straight delivery’s from the 2 youngsters.

 

[Major]

Pakistan lost because of their batting not bowling. Unless there is a need to rest them, both should play and get the experience.

to be honest, in this series if we again post a total it wont be more than 300. It would always be a total of 250ish something

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

to be honest, in this series if we again post a total it wont be more than 300. It would always be a total of 250ish something

And then we would deserve to lose. 250 should be the absolute minimum score Pakistan should score in a innings. Ideally we would score between 300 and 450.

 

[MenInG]

Wasim Akram:

"We've got a 17-year-old [Naseem], who bowls 90mph, a 20-year-old [Shaheen Afridi], who is around 88mph, and they should be bowling a lot more overs - 18-20 overs each innings, no matter the situation."

 

[Kroll]

It is quite perplexing to think to think that there doesn't seem to be any viable alternatives to what are essentially a couple of upstart kids.

Team planning is an absolute joke.

 

[MenInG]

It is quite perplexing to think to think that there doesn't seem to be any viable alternatives to what are essentially a couple of upstart kids.

Team planning is an absolute joke.

and we will run them to the ground.

 

[shamaan]

It is quite perplexing to think to think that there doesn't seem to be any viable alternatives to what are essentially a couple of upstart kids.

Team planning is an absolute joke.

I'd go with naseem and shaheen 9 times out of 10 even if we loose it will benefit them in the long run they will gain experience

 

[shamaan]

I'd play shaheen and naseem in the next test any day of the week we dont have much options in bowling

 

[sweep_shot]

I think both should play as other options aren't better. However, these two should improve their batting.

 

[aloo paratha]

We must back them, they're not gonna perform every game but that's okay, they are an investment, they've got lots of potential, and we're not exactly spoiled for options.

 

[Kroll]

I'd go with naseem and shaheen 9 times out of 10 even if we loose it will benefit them in the long run they will gain experience

I'd say Naseem wasn't bad, but I was disappointed with his pace. He was marketed as some sort of pace demon, but when I tuned in and watched, a lot of deliveries were like 86 and some getting up to 88.

That's quite underwhelming considering the hype.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

I'd say Naseem wasn't bad, but I was disappointed with his pace. He was marketed as some sort of pace demon, but when I tuned in and watched, a lot of deliveries were like 86 and some getting up to 88.

That's quite underwhelming considering the hype.

He is down on match practice.
Even brett lee wouldnt touch his usual speeds after a layoff.
It takes time to get back into rhythm for a fast bowler because speed is all about how well you are co-ordinated in your bowling action.

 

[shamaan]

I'd say Naseem wasn't bad, but I was disappointed with his pace. He was marketed as some sort of pace demon, but when I tuned in and watched, a lot of deliveries were like 86 and some getting up to 88.

That's quite underwhelming considering the hype.

Hes not going to bowl 90mph each spell I reakon he will be consistanly around the 88 mark with off spell of 90 in tests

 

[Kroll]

Hes not going to bowl 90mph each spell I reakon he will be consistanly around the 88 mark with off spell of 90 in tests

A lot of times, I saw him bowling at 86, even Broad got up to 86, think saw Jimmy at 85 also. Like Pacy says, could be lack of match time but he's had two practice games.

We were told that he was a 90+ demon that's why he was picked at 16/17. Perhaps he will just be another fast medium bowler at 85+.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

A lot of times, I saw him bowling at 86, even Broad got up to 86, think saw Jimmy at 85 also. Like Pacy says, could be lack of match time but he's had two practice games.

We were told that he was a 90+ demon that's why he was picked at 16/17. Perhaps he will just be another fast medium bowler at 85+.

He wasn't bowling at full throttle in the practice games. The intensity is just not there in a practice environment, because there is no pressure.
To bowl at 90 plus, one also has to re-train the nervous system and it can only happen in match situations

This is similar to when you stop lifting heavy weights in the gym and start focusing on light weight exercises for some time. You may not lose muscle, but the next time that you try to lift the same heavier weights, you will struggle because while the muscles have the capacity, the brain doesnt.

So stop assuming everything after one match after a 6 month layoff.
He is a 90 mph bowler and he is going get quicker by atleast 3,4 miles.
Patience!

 

[Abdullah719]

A lot of times, I saw him bowling at 86, even Broad got up to 86, think saw Jimmy at 85 also. Like Pacy says, could be lack of match time but he’s had two practice games.

We were told that he was a 90+ demon that’s why he was picked at 16/17. Perhaps he will just be another fast medium bowler at 85+.

You are comparing average speeds with top speeds. Sure, Broad will hit 86mph sometimes but he won’t do so consistently. Naseem bowls almost all of his stock balls at the same speed i.e. ~87mph. His average speed in the first innings was 88mph and 86mph in the second innings. He was the fastest bowler in the match despite being off-color somewhat.

He didn’t hit it in this match but his top speed right now is 92-93mph as we saw in previous Tests and the PSL.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

You are comparing average speeds with top speeds. Sure, Broad will hit 86mph sometimes but he won’t do so consistently. Naseem bowls almost all of his stock balls at the same speed i.e. ~87mph. His average speed in the first innings was 88mph and 86mph in the second innings. He was the fastest bowler in the match despite being off-color somewhat.

He didn’t hit it in this match but his top speed right now is 92-93mph as we saw in previous Tests and the PSL.

Can count on you to know pal.

 

[Kroll]

He wasn't bowling at full throttle in the practice games. The intensity is just not there in a practice environment, because there is no pressure.
To bowl at 90 plus, one also has to re-train the nervous system and it can only happen in match situations

This is similar to when you stop lifting heavy weights in the gym and start focusing on light weight exercises for some time. You may not lose muscle, but the next time that you try to lift the same heavier weights, you will struggle because while the muscles have the capacity, the brain doesnt.

So stop assuming everything after one match after a 6 month layoff.
He is a 90 mph bowler and he is going get quicker by atleast 3,4 miles.
Patience!

You are comparing average speeds with top speeds. Sure, Broad will hit 86mph sometimes but he won’t do so consistently. Naseem bowls almost all of his stock balls at the same speed i.e. ~87mph. His average speed in the first innings was 88mph and 86mph in the second innings. He was the fastest bowler in the match despite being off-color somewhat.



He didn’t hit it in this match but his top speed right now is 92-93mph as we saw in previous Tests and the PSL.

Good stuff lads, hope he can be even quicker in next match and doesn't end up being another Mohammad Sami.

 

[Hasan123]

Sameen Gul should be playing instead of Naseem. Sameen is not even in the squad. Instead Misbah selects Imran Khan and Sohail Khan who won't even have the fitness to bowl 20 plus overs in 2 innings.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

Good stuff lads, hope he can be even quicker in next match and doesn't end up being another Mohammad Sami.

I see most posters throw every new pacer who has genuine pace, under the bus by calling him or fearing for him to end up as the next sami.

To let them all know; Sami was a tremendous talent. He had great pace, as well as durability and could swing the ball both ways.
A guy like Hasnain would be well served if he had the skills of Sami.
The issue with the latter was his abnormally weak temperament. He was a mental midget of midgets. Just wasnt made for the big stage.

Coming on to Naseem; no he wont be a Sami, because he is mentally very strong and has great character.
We have seen that with how he stayed on tour after losing his mother, and how he came back in the second innings to take a a fiver and and hatrick after lacklustre first innings performances against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh respectively

 

[ManFan]

Patience. Naseem is 17!

 

[hitthestump]

I personally don't see the problem with these two bowlers playing in the team as i think they're good enough. The problem i see is that the fans hyped them to the moon before this series and now the knives are out when those stupid expectations weren't reached.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Relax! They bowled well given the circumstances. Naseem looked out of rhythm and was also known to be bowling with a shortened run up in the warmups. And both him and Shaheen are still young.

You don’t develop talents by dropping them after their first major bad performance (which wasn’t as horrible to be honest).

 

[Xoib]

A lot of times, I saw him bowling at 86, even Broad got up to 86, think saw Jimmy at 85 also. Like Pacy says, could be lack of match time but he's had two practice games.

We were told that he was a 90+ demon that's why he was picked at 16/17. Perhaps he will just be another fast medium bowler at 85+.

You do know that even Starc averages out at 88-89 mph in tests. In tests it's very rare to have average speeds in 90's it dies not happen at all

 

[shamaan]

Relax! They bowled well given the circumstances. Naseem looked out of rhythm and was also known to be bowling with a shortened run up in the warmups. And both him and Shaheen are still young.

You don’t develop talents by dropping them after their first major bad performance (which wasn’t as horrible to be honest).

Agreed!

 

[shamaan]

A lot of times, I saw him bowling at 86, even Broad got up to 86, think saw Jimmy at 85 also. Like Pacy says, could be lack of match time but he's had two practice games.

We were told that he was a 90+ demon that's why he was picked at 16/17. Perhaps he will just be another fast medium bowler at 85+.

I dont think any bowler baring fuguson and wood can bowl pluss 90 consistanly but we gotta remember hes 17 so as its muscles and strength increases he can get fast just gotta be patient

 

[QalandarFan]

Need to rest them for the next match.

Our best pace bowling attack would be Amir, Abbas, Shaheen. However, Amir doesn’t want to play tests smh, just play 1 test Amir.

 

[Abdullah]

Same 3 quicks for all test matches, if at all possible.

The workload wasn't crazy in the first game ( though they got minimal rest because of our batting.
We had the extra day off too. We have just come of a lay off so needed to get the miles in the legs and will be better for it

Game

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

You do know that even Starc averages out at 88-89 mph in tests. In tests it's very rare to have average speeds in 90's it dies not happen at all

He is already the fastest pacer in Asia and he is only behind few Pacers in terms of average.

 

[Xoib]

More then skills or pace what Nasseem and Shaheen needs to learn is the art of setting up batsman which will get better more they play.

 

[Kroll]

You do know that even Starc averages out at 88-89 mph in tests. In tests it's very rare to have average speeds in 90's it dies not happen at all

I wasn't talking about average speed as I know this will be lower but just on the occasions I saw him bowl. I'm sure he'll get a touch quicker now that he's got one test under his belt.

 

[Xoib]

I wasn't talking about average speed as I know this will be lower but just on the occasions I saw him bowl. I'm sure he'll get a touch quicker now that he's got one test under his belt.

Pacers reach top speeds by the time they are 24-25.Even if Nasem is closer to 20 then 17 he is still 4-5 years away from hitting his top speeds.

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes, without them the attack is toothless in the middle overs. Abbas looks good with new ball but threatens no one with the old ball.

 

[MenInG]

Aaqib Javed has recently stated that Naseem shoud give way for Sohail Khan for 2nd Test - do you agree?

 

[Kingpin786]

Aaqib Javed has recently stated that Naseem shoud give way for Sohail Khan for 2nd Test - do you agree?

No

 

[Amoeba]

Sohail should play as should Wahab.....but their fitness is doubtful. I would go for Sohail....he offers a bit with the bat too but it would leave us a bit one-paced.

 

[MenInG]

No

fitness could be an issue with Naseem so Pakistan may be wary here.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Aaqib Javed has recently stated that Naseem shoud give way for Sohail Khan for 2nd Test - do you agree?

Yes, we should. Sohail adds the x factor to our bowling line up. Naseem should rest and maybe given a go in the 3rd test.

 

[shamaan]

Yes, we should. Sohail adds the x factor to our bowling line up. Naseem should rest and maybe given a go in the 3rd test.

What x factor?

 

[in_cutter]

For some reason, PCB have marketed him as some bowling version of Tendulkar who is Test class at 16-17.

All of the fake hype has gone to his head and you can see his arrogance and over the top attitude from the moon.

Expect him to get clobbered in the next two matches. There is nothing special in his bowling apart from that odd delivery that holds its line.

Sorry, but what arrogance?