Should Pakistan follow Bangladesh in opening ties with Israel?

[Mrhandsome]

Its not even a question of justification from an Islamic perspective. It's about basic human consciousness. A robber enters the house of your neighbour, threatens the family members and corners them in a small room while moving in and occupying the rest of the house. Now what options do the neighbours have

1) Ignore the sufferings of the cornered family and share food and utensils with the robbers and act like nothing has happened
2) Kick the robbers out and help the real family retain what was rightfully theirs.
3) When you are not powerful enough to do the 2nd thing. But can still differentiate between the right and the wrong. You keep a spite in your heart for the wrongdoers. Try to help the real family in whatever ways you can even it be moral support in the form of say socially boycotting the illegal robbers.

Not so hard to figure out what's right now is it?

 

[Mrhandsome]

Let's talk about a secular world first where Islam and Muslims haven't been pushed into s corner.

 

[Mrhandsome]

This post is a reminder of why we need a secular, liberal Pakistan.

Let's talk about a secular world first where Islam and Muslims haven't been pushed into a corner.

 

[uberkoen]

Its not even a question of justification from an Islamic perspective. It's about basic human consciousness. A robber enters the house of your neighbour, threatens the family members and corners them in a small room while moving in and occupying the rest of the house. Now what options do the neighbours have

1) Ignore the sufferings of the cornered family and share food and utensils with the robbers and act like nothing has happened
2) Kick the robbers out and help the real family retain what was rightfully theirs.
3) When you are not powerful enough to do the 2nd thing. But can still differentiate between the right and the wrong. You keep a spite in your heart for the wrongdoers. Try to help the real family in whatever ways you can even it be moral support in the form of say socially boycotting the illegal robbers.

Not so hard to figure out what's right now is it?

1. Why does Pakistan need to shoulder the responsibility of what is happening in Palestine while ignoring its internal matters? Should Pakistan not be concerned about its own people first? If developing ties with Israel leads to an economic advantage that trickles down to the people of Pakistan why should we not consider it?

2. Why are you okay with our ties with China when China is involved in a genocide of Muslims.

Moreover, what have the Palestinians done for Paksitan and Kashmir? Do you know Modi was awarded with the Grand Collar of the State of Palestine. Do you know that on the request of India, Palestine pulled out its ambassador from Pakistan in 2017. Do you know that Mahmoud Abbas, on his visit to India, said that growing relationship (of India) with Israel is not a matter of concern for the Palestinians as New Delhi's support for Palestinian independence remained clear. He said ""India's relations with Israel is its sovereign decision. We are not going to interfere. We know very well that India is supportive of the Palestinian struggle for achieving its own independence."

Do you know that Palestine supports India’s full membership in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, OIC which Pakistan opposes?

Palestine looks out for its own interests in all matters. Why should Pakistan base its foreign policy on emotions, misconceptions and pop culture theories rather than shaping it in a way that Pakistan and Pakistani's benefit.

There is no Ummah. We are not the saviors of the Muslim world. We can hardly save ourselves. It's about time we thought about ourselves rather than others and moved beyond this silly notion of protecting the non-existent ummah

 

[uberkoen]

Let's talk about a secular world first where Islam and Muslims haven't been pushed into a corner.

In a secular country, in any secular country, religion is not a matter of the state nor are foreign policies adopting based on religion. Not sure what your point is here

 

[Loralai]

Let's talk about a secular world first where Islam and Muslims haven't been pushed into a corner.

How have Muslims and Islam been pushed into a corner?

 

[Mrhandsome]

1. Why does Pakistan need to shoulder the responsibility of what is happening in Palestine while ignoring its internal matters? Should Pakistan not be concerned about its own people first? If developing ties with Israel leads to an economic advantage that trickles down to the people of Pakistan why should we not consider it?

2. Why are you okay with our ties with China when China is involved in a genocide of Muslims.

Moreover, what have the Palestinians done for Paksitan and Kashmir? Do you know Modi was awarded with the Grand Collar of the State of Palestine. Do you know that on the request of India, Palestine pulled out its ambassador from Pakistan in 2017. Do you know that Mahmoud Abbas, on his visit to India, said that growing relationship (of India) with Israel is not a matter of concern for the Palestinians as New Delhi's support for Palestinian independence remained clear. He said ""India's relations with Israel is its sovereign decision. We are not going to interfere. We know very well that India is supportive of the Palestinian struggle for achieving its own independence."

Do you know that Palestine supports India’s full membership in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, OIC which Pakistan opposes?

Palestine looks out for its own interests in all matters. Why should Pakistan base its foreign policy on emotions, misconceptions and pop culture theories rather than shaping it in a way that Pakistan and Pakistani's benefit.

There is no Ummah. We are not the saviors of the Muslim world. We can hardly save ourselves. It's about time we thought about ourselves rather than others and moved beyond this silly notion of protecting the non-existent ummah

1. Why does Pakistan need to shoulder the responsibility of what is happening in Palestine while ignoring its internal matters? Should Pakistan not be concerned about its own people first? If developing ties with Israel leads to an economic advantage that trickles down to the people of Pakistan why should we not consider it?

2. Why are you okay with our ties with China when China is involved in a genocide of Muslims.

Moreover, what have the Palestinians done for Paksitan and Kashmir? Do you know Modi was awarded with the Grand Collar of the State of Palestine. Do you know that on the request of India, Palestine pulled out its ambassador from Pakistan in 2017. Do you know that Mahmoud Abbas, on his visit to India, said that growing relationship (of India) with Israel is not a matter of concern for the Palestinians as New Delhi's support for Palestinian independence remained clear. He said ""India's relations with Israel is its sovereign decision. We are not going to interfere. We know very well that India is supportive of the Palestinian struggle for achieving its own independence."

Do you know that Palestine supports India’s full membership in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, OIC which Pakistan opposes?

Palestine looks out for its own interests in all matters. Why should Pakistan base its foreign policy on emotions, misconceptions and pop culture theories rather than shaping it in a way that Pakistan and Pakistani's benefit.

There is no Ummah. We are not the saviors of the Muslim world. We can hardly save ourselves. It's about time we thought about ourselves rather than others and moved beyond this silly notion of protecting the non-existent ummah

Israel is hardly significant or big enough to somehow magically change Pakistan's economic fortunes. It's just a US sub state and what more can they possibly offer which we haven't already had from US itself. Supporting Palestinian cause is infact being concerned with Pakistani people as well. It's not always about economics you know. I'm sure if an average Pakistani were given an option of Palestinian freedom on one hand and something like better roads or more electricity on the other, 10 times out of 10 the Palestinian cause will be chosen because that's just the way we as a muslim nation have been and rightly should be. A muslim's religion is the dearest thing to his heart ,more than his tribe, race or region

Coming to this Mohammad Abbas thing. To me it's like saying Kashmiris don't want freedom from India because Abdullahas and the Muftis of Kashmir time and again make pro India statements. The man has often been labelled of being a traitor in Palestine and even his own masters have spoken about his corruption charges. A common Palestinian has as much of sympathy and feels as much pain for Kashmir as a Pakistani does. How do I know this? Some of my best friends have been Palestinians and believe me they are much more up to date vis a vis India and Pakistan than you can imagine.

As for there being no Ummah, I would just say there is only thing that will be common between our forefathers from thousand years ago and our descendents a thousand years from now and that will be our Muslim identity. Can you say for sure your family tree 200 years from now will still be labelled Pakistani?

 

[uberkoen]

Israel is hardly significant or big enough to somehow magically change Pakistan's economic fortunes. It's just a US sub state and what more can they possibly offer which we haven't already had from US itself. Supporting Palestinian cause is infact being concerned with Pakistani people as well. It's not always about economics you know. I'm sure if an average Pakistani were given an option of Palestinian freedom on one hand and something like better roads or more electricity on the other, 10 times out of 10 the Palestinian cause will be chosen because that's just the way we as a muslim nation have been and rightly should be. A muslim's religion is the dearest thing to his heart ,more than his tribe, race or region

Coming to this Mohammad Abbas thing. To me it's like saying Kashmiris don't want freedom from India because Abdullahas and the Muftis of Kashmir time and again make pro India statements. The man has often been labelled of being a traitor in Palestine and even his own masters have spoken about his corruption charges. A common Palestinian has as much of sympathy and feels as much pain for Kashmir as a Pakistani does. How do I know this? Some of my best friends have been Palestinians and believe me they are much more up to date vis a vis India and Pakistan than you can imagine.

As for there being no Ummah, I would just say there is only thing that will be common between our forefathers from thousand years ago and our descendents a thousand years from now and that will be our Muslim identity. Can you say for sure your family tree 200 years from now will still be labelled Pakistani?

Good job on ignoring all the points and making baseless arguments. This is why we need less religious people and more educated people.

You completely failed to acknowledge the genocide of Muslims in China. If It's not about economy why do we continue trading with China and recognizing them when they are committing a genocide of the Uigher Muslims.

What has Palestine done for Pakistan? How do you know what a common Palestinian feels? and who cares what a common Palestinian feels. What does Pakistan gain out of it? As a nation they have always been Pro-India. Why should we support a country that is not supporting our agenda. Only emotional or religious fools would do this.

Turks recognize themselves as Turks first Muslims later as do the Arabs. Arabs care about Arabs first and the remaining Muslims later. Why has Pakistan taken upon itself to be the savior of the Muslim world? We don't need this. I could care less about Muslims in other countries. I want every individual in Pakistan to live a happy and free life whether this person is Christian, Hindu, Ahmedi, Shia, Sunni, Zoroastrian or Atheist.

Muslims don't support Muslims all over the world. Look at what is happening to Libya, Yemen, Qatar, and Iran. Look at the tussle between UAE and Turkey. None of these countries care about Muslims in other countries. They care about their people and this is what Pakistan should do.

Muslim's can't get along between themselves and you say they have a unified identity. Isn't there a mass protest going on right now against Shia's in Karachi? Haven't the Hazara's been historically targeted and killed? Haven't the Ahmedi's faced persecution in Pakistan and are not allowed to practice their religion freely? Who is a Muslim really? Wahabi's don't believe Deobandi and Sufi's to be Muslims. Which Islam is our unified identity that we share with the rest of the Muslims around the world? This is all a load of **.

Your statement about 10 times out 10 Pakistani's choosing the Palestinian cause is incorrect as witnessed by the poll in this thread. Wake up buddy and stop being hypocritical. You're happy taking money from China while they slaughter Muslims and you pretend to take a stand for Muslim's on here and talk about liberals selling their wives and mothers. I hope I live long enough to see people like you become a minority and with the way things are progressing this will happen soon.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

For the posters who are desperate for Pakistan to recognize Israel. Please understand Pakistan is a democracy unlike the UAE, and Bahrain. Public sentiment needs to be respected in Pakistan. And when your pubic is 99% against recognizing Israel, how can a democratic government do that. Vote ko izzat do.

 

[RickyG]

It's a shame a poll like this has even been added in a Pakistani forum. Muslims today have reached the worst point in their history and all these neo pseudo secular libtards without shame have been the principal reason. They will sell their sisters and mothers too if it benefits them

Should Pakistan start a war with China over the treatment of Uyghur Muslims there? They are literally being put into concentration camps by the millions.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Good job on ignoring all the points and making baseless arguments. This is why we need less religious people and more educated people.

You completely failed to acknowledge the genocide of Muslims in China. If It's not about economy why do we continue trading with China and recognizing them when they are committing a genocide of the Uigher Muslims.

What has Palestine done for Pakistan? How do you know what a common Palestinian feels? and who cares what a common Palestinian feels. What does Pakistan gain out of it? As a nation they have always been Pro-India. Why should we support a country that is not supporting our agenda. Only emotional or religious fools would do this.

Turks recognize themselves as Turks first Muslims later as do the Arabs. Arabs care about Arabs first and the remaining Muslims later. Why has Pakistan taken upon itself to be the savior of the Muslim world? We don't need this. I could care less about Muslims in other countries. I want every individual in Pakistan to live a happy and free life whether this person is Christian, Hindu, Ahmedi, Shia, Sunni, Zoroastrian or Atheist.

Muslims don't support Muslims all over the world. Look at what is happening to Libya, Yemen, Qatar, and Iran. Look at the tussle between UAE and Turkey. None of these countries care about Muslims in other countries. They care about their people and this is what Pakistan should do.

Muslim's can't get along between themselves and you say they have a unified identity. Isn't there a mass protest going on right now against Shia's in Karachi? Haven't the Hazara's been historically targeted and killed? Haven't the Ahmedi's faced persecution in Pakistan and are not allowed to practice their religion freely? Who is a Muslim really? Wahabi's don't believe Deobandi and Sufi's to be Muslims. Which Islam is our unified identity that we share with the rest of the Muslims around the world? This is all a load of **.

Your statement about 10 times out 10 Pakistani's choosing the Palestinian cause is incorrect as witnessed by the poll in this thread. Wake up buddy and stop being hypocritical. You're happy taking money from China while they slaughter Muslims and you pretend to take a stand for Muslim's on here and talk about liberals selling their wives and mothers. I hope I live long enough to see people like you become a minority and with the way things are progressing this will happen soon.

Long post and sadly irrelevant. Its not about Muslims caring for other Muslims.

A foreign power occupied Jerusalem after WW1, they gave land to a 3rd people. Until there is a just settlement, why recognise Israel?

Jerusalem is being occupied by a terrorist entity, it's idiotic to start making friends with such a nation.

Pakistan isn't asking for Israel to be annexed, it's asking for a just Palestinian state.

Why dont you spend the time arguing for a Palestinian state instead? Oh because you have agenda against Islam. Sadly you are wasting your time, you and a million other haters cannot make an iota of difference to the existance and expansion of Islam(in terms of Muslims).

 

[uberkoen]

Long post and sadly irrelevant. Its not about Muslims caring for other Muslims.

A foreign power occupied Jerusalem after WW1, they gave land to a 3rd people. Until there is a just settlement, why recognise Israel?

Jerusalem is being occupied by a terrorist entity, it's idiotic to start making friends with such a nation.

Pakistan isn't asking for Israel to be annexed, it's asking for a just Palestinian state.

Why dont you spend the time arguing for a Palestinian state instead? Oh because you have agenda against Islam. Sadly you are wasting your time, you and a million other haters cannot make an iota of difference to the existance and expansion of Islam(in terms of Muslims).

Again a hypocritical and a pathetic post which shows the mindset of some of the posters here. Why are we okay with going into bed with China when they are committing a genocide? Why should Pakistan take a stand for Palestine when they have never done so for Pakistan and Kashmir? Why should we sacrifice potential trade which could benefit the people of Pakistan (regardless of the value of that trade) for the Palestinians? Any economic impact as a result of the Israeli recognition will be good for Pakistan and the people of Pakistan. Why should we sacrifice the Pakistani people for the Palestinians?

 

[uberkoen]

For the posters who are desperate for Pakistan to recognize Israel. Please understand Pakistan is a democracy unlike the UAE, and Bahrain. Public sentiment needs to be respected in Pakistan. And when your pubic is 99% against recognizing Israel, how can a democratic government do that. Vote ko izzat do.

No one is desperate for anything. It's a discussion on why we should vs why we should not. It's like this forum is deciding our foreign policy. If you don't want to be part of the discussion you can ignore the thread.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

No one is desperate for anything. It's a discussion on why we should vs why we should not. It's like this forum is deciding our foreign policy. If you don't want to be part of the discussion you can ignore the thread.

Right, and my argument against recognizing Israel is that 99% of the Pakistani population hates Israel.

Do you disagree that the Pakistani awam hated Israel? If you agree, then dont you think any democratic government that does so will pay a huge political cost?

 

[uberkoen]

Right, and my argument against recognizing Israel is that 99% of the Pakistani population hates Israel.

Do you disagree that the Pakistani awam hated Israel? If you agree, then dont you think any democratic government that does so will pay a huge political cost?

The hate is pure stupidity based on, as mentioned earlier as well, emotions, misconceptions and pop culture theories.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The hate is pure stupidity based on, as mentioned earlier as well, emotions, misconceptions and pop culture theories.

Maybe for you. However to the majority of Muslims in Pakistan, Israel is Palestine, a land which is not only holy for Muslims, but belongs under Muslim control. Thats just how they feel.

This is why Muslim suffering in Syria, Yemen, China, Myanmar, Chechnya, Philippines, Darfur, Western Sahara, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, does not get much attention in Pakistan.

Only Muslim suffering regarding Kashmir, other subcontinent Muslims, and Palestine gets decent coverage in Pakistan.

So its not worth the political hit for any democratic government to take in recognizing Israel.

 

[Mrhandsome]

Good job on ignoring all the points and making baseless arguments. This is why we need less religious people and more educated people.

You completely failed to acknowledge the genocide of Muslims in China. If It's not about economy why do we continue trading with China and recognizing them when they are committing a genocide of the Uigher Muslims.

What has Palestine done for Pakistan? How do you know what a common Palestinian feels? and who cares what a common Palestinian feels. What does Pakistan gain out of it? As a nation they have always been Pro-India. Why should we support a country that is not supporting our agenda. Only emotional or religious fools would do this.

Turks recognize themselves as Turks first Muslims later as do the Arabs. Arabs care about Arabs first and the remaining Muslims later. Why has Pakistan taken upon itself to be the savior of the Muslim world? We don't need this. I could care less about Muslims in other countries. I want every individual in Pakistan to live a happy and free life whether this person is Christian, Hindu, Ahmedi, Shia, Sunni, Zoroastrian or Atheist.

Muslims don't support Muslims all over the world. Look at what is happening to Libya, Yemen, Qatar, and Iran. Look at the tussle between UAE and Turkey. None of these countries care about Muslims in other countries. They care about their people and this is what Pakistan should do.

Muslim's can't get along between themselves and you say they have a unified identity. Isn't there a mass protest going on right now against Shia's in Karachi? Haven't the Hazara's been historically targeted and killed? Haven't the Ahmedi's faced persecution in Pakistan and are not allowed to practice their religion freely? Who is a Muslim really? Wahabi's don't believe Deobandi and Sufi's to be Muslims. Which Islam is our unified identity that we share with the rest of the Muslims around the world? This is all a load of **.

Your statement about 10 times out 10 Pakistani's choosing the Palestinian cause is incorrect as witnessed by the poll in this thread. Wake up buddy and stop being hypocritical. You're happy taking money from China while they slaughter Muslims and you pretend to take a stand for Muslim's on here and talk about liberals selling their wives and mothers. I hope I live long enough to see people like you become a minority and with the way things are progressing this will happen soon.

You have delved into a whole different topic here which we can discuss some other time because it's unrelated to this thread.
You justify your supporting Israel thing by claiming that Arabs consider themselves as Arabs first and Muslims later when you haven't asked a single Arab about this. Try asking a random practising Muslim anywhere in world as to what he is first , a Muslim or a XYZ national and I swear you will not hear a single person putting his country before his religion. And even if the national policies of so and so Arab countries have been based on this nation first ****, where exactly has it brought them. They're either down in rubble or down as American slaves.
It looks to me either you are arguing just for the sake of it or you have this agenda against Islam like so many others on this forum.

 

[uberkoen]

You have delved into a whole different topic here which we can discuss some other time because it's unrelated to this thread.
You justify your supporting Israel thing by claiming that Arabs consider themselves as Arabs first and Muslims later when you haven't asked a single Arab about this. Try asking a random practising Muslim anywhere in world as to what he is first , a Muslim or a XYZ national and I swear you will not hear a single person putting his country before his religion. And even if the national policies of so and so Arab countries have been based on this nation first ****, where exactly has it brought them. They're either down in rubble or down as American slaves.
It looks to me either you are arguing just for the sake of it or you have this agenda against Islam like so many others on this forum.

Please tell me where has this policy brought the like of UAE, Bahrain and KSA? Are they down in the rubble? You make no sense whatsoever.

 

[Mrhandsome]

Please tell me where has this policy brought the like of UAE, Bahrain and KSA? Are they down in the rubble? You make no sense whatsoever.

Bootlicker countries of US with no respect in Muslim or non Muslim world. And congrats nobody will make any sense to you unless he shares your agenda.

 

[Varun]

Mark my post, Pakistan will be the last man standing in these stakes.

And by that stage - a short few years from now - Israel won't care at the diplomatic orphan.

That's why Pakistan should join the Emiratis and Bahrainis and set up relations NOW. The novelty still exists and it'll be a diplomatic coup for both parties.

 

[Mrhandsome]

Mark my post, Pakistan will be the last man standing in these stakes.

And by that stage - a short few years from now - Israel won't care at the diplomatic orphan.

That's why Pakistan should join the Emiratis and Bahrainis and set up relations NOW. The novelty still exists and it'll be a diplomatic coup for both parties.

And what exactly makes Israel so important that it has to be had diplomatic relations with.

 

[Varun]

And what exactly makes Israel so important that it has to be had diplomatic relations with.

Their usefulness in terms of military, technology, agriculture and a backdoor to the power corridors of the United States and the rest of the West.

You can still be outward chums with the Palestinians - they won't mind. Look at us.

 

[topspin]

Good job on ignoring all the points and making baseless arguments. This is why we need less religious people and more educated people.

You completely failed to acknowledge the genocide of Muslims in China. If It's not about economy why do we continue trading with China and recognizing them when they are committing a genocide of the Uigher Muslims.

What has Palestine done for Pakistan? How do you know what a common Palestinian feels? and who cares what a common Palestinian feels. What does Pakistan gain out of it? As a nation they have always been Pro-India. Why should we support a country that is not supporting our agenda. Only emotional or religious fools would do this.

Turks recognize themselves as Turks first Muslims later as do the Arabs. Arabs care about Arabs first and the remaining Muslims later. Why has Pakistan taken upon itself to be the savior of the Muslim world? We don't need this. I could care less about Muslims in other countries. I want every individual in Pakistan to live a happy and free life whether this person is Christian, Hindu, Ahmedi, Shia, Sunni, Zoroastrian or Atheist.

Muslims don't support Muslims all over the world. Look at what is happening to Libya, Yemen, Qatar, and Iran. Look at the tussle between UAE and Turkey. None of these countries care about Muslims in other countries. They care about their people and this is what Pakistan should do.

Muslim's can't get along between themselves and you say they have a unified identity. Isn't there a mass protest going on right now against Shia's in Karachi? Haven't the Hazara's been historically targeted and killed? Haven't the Ahmedi's faced persecution in Pakistan and are not allowed to practice their religion freely? Who is a Muslim really? Wahabi's don't believe Deobandi and Sufi's to be Muslims. Which Islam is our unified identity that we share with the rest of the Muslims around the world? This is all a load of **.

Your statement about 10 times out 10 Pakistani's choosing the Palestinian cause is incorrect as witnessed by the poll in this thread. Wake up buddy and stop being hypocritical. You're happy taking money from China while they slaughter Muslims and you pretend to take a stand for Muslim's on here and talk about liberals selling their wives and mothers. I hope I live long enough to see people like you become a minority and with the way things are progressing this will happen soon.

How optimistic are you that we will see a more progressive Pakistan?

 

[uberkoen]

How optimistic are you that we will see a more progressive Pakistan?

I can only hope. We should all contribute towards making a positive change and challenging the close minded attitude of our fellows countrymen. Maybe we can get through to 1-2 people for example via this thread who could then reach out to others. It's not going to be easy but I will keep trying.

 

[Tubs]

The faux outrage regarding Muslim oppression needs to stop. I dislike Israel and China (both for the similar reason of absolute disregard for human rights), but I agree that it's good for Pakistan to have good relations with the latter, and likely with the former. Pakistan has to put itself first, instead of attempting to be some moral arbiter, which many on this forum would criticise the US for being (and other Western countries) and rightfully so in some cases. It really is terrible what these countries are doing to Palestinians and Uighurs respectively, but Pakistan can't do anything about it, and they really need to work on developing themselves.

While they're at it, Pakistan should recognise Armenia and the Armenian genocide.

 

[Pakpak]

1. Why does Pakistan need to shoulder the responsibility of what is happening in Palestine while ignoring its internal matters? Should Pakistan not be concerned about its own people first? If developing ties with Israel leads to an economic advantage that trickles down to the people of Pakistan why should we not consider it?

2. Why are you okay with our ties with China when China is involved in a genocide of Muslims.

Moreover, what have the Palestinians done for Paksitan and Kashmir? Do you know Modi was awarded with the Grand Collar of the State of Palestine. Do you know that on the request of India, Palestine pulled out its ambassador from Pakistan in 2017. Do you know that Mahmoud Abbas, on his visit to India, said that growing relationship (of India) with Israel is not a matter of concern for the Palestinians as New Delhi's support for Palestinian independence remained clear. He said ""India's relations with Israel is its sovereign decision. We are not going to interfere. We know very well that India is supportive of the Palestinian struggle for achieving its own independence."

Do you know that Palestine supports India’s full membership in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, OIC which Pakistan opposes?

Palestine looks out for its own interests in all matters. Why should Pakistan base its foreign policy on emotions, misconceptions and pop culture theories rather than shaping it in a way that Pakistan and Pakistani's benefit.

There is no Ummah. We are not the saviors of the Muslim world. We can hardly save ourselves. It's about time we thought about ourselves rather than others and moved beyond this silly notion of protecting the non-existent ummah

Has to be one of the best posts I have read.

I agree with it whole-heartedly. Either we do not recognise any nation that brutalises Muslims or we recognise them all. I also accept Israel is committing mass war crimes against Palestine but so are the Burmese and they are commiting crimes I doubt the Israelis have, we still recognise them. Better yet, we sell them weapons. India has turned Kashmir into an open prison, rapes, killings, the list goes on and on, we have their ambassadors in our country.

We sell the Burmese weapons, who gang rape and kill Muslims by their hundreds of thousands. If it was a Christian nation killing Muslims or a non-Jewish nation, we'd recognised them long ago. Not everyone but a lot of people won't admit this but its only because they're Jewish is the reason why everyone isn't recognising them. We have to move past that.

 

[Loralai]

1. Why does Pakistan need to shoulder the responsibility of what is happening in Palestine while ignoring its internal matters? Should Pakistan not be concerned about its own people first? If developing ties with Israel leads to an economic advantage that trickles down to the people of Pakistan why should we not consider it?

2. Why are you okay with our ties with China when China is involved in a genocide of Muslims.

Moreover, what have the Palestinians done for Paksitan and Kashmir? Do you know Modi was awarded with the Grand Collar of the State of Palestine. Do you know that on the request of India, Palestine pulled out its ambassador from Pakistan in 2017. Do you know that Mahmoud Abbas, on his visit to India, said that growing relationship (of India) with Israel is not a matter of concern for the Palestinians as New Delhi's support for Palestinian independence remained clear. He said ""India's relations with Israel is its sovereign decision. We are not going to interfere. We know very well that India is supportive of the Palestinian struggle for achieving its own independence."

Do you know that Palestine supports India’s full membership in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, OIC which Pakistan opposes?

Palestine looks out for its own interests in all matters. Why should Pakistan base its foreign policy on emotions, misconceptions and pop culture theories rather than shaping it in a way that Pakistan and Pakistani's benefit.

There is no Ummah. We are not the saviors of the Muslim world. We can hardly save ourselves. It's about time we thought about ourselves rather than others and moved beyond this silly notion of protecting the non-existent ummah

These are the facts of the matter and I agree with you completely. We need to start looking out for ourselves instead of the messiah complex we have. Our job is not to save whole "Ummah". We need to look after our own country first.

 

[topspin]

I can only hope. We should all contribute towards making a positive change and challenging the close minded attitude of our fellows countrymen. Maybe we can get through to 1-2 people for example via this thread who could then reach out to others. It's not going to be easy but I will keep trying.

I also hope to see it in my lifetime but it's hard to envisage this happening anytime soon, primarily because of the connection between the Mullah brigade and Army.

 

[Mrhandsome]

Their usefulness in terms of military, technology, agriculture and a backdoor to the power corridors of the United States and the rest of the West.

You can still be outward chums with the Palestinians - they won't mind. Look at us.

West is no longer the power corridor. China is. An Indian should know better.

 

[Varun]

West is no longer the power corridor. China is. An Indian should know better.

You are not forsaking your relations with China by having relations with Israel.

 

[Syed1]

You are not forsaking your relations with China by having relations with Israel.

We are a democracy, no country can go against what 90% of the population wants. Pakistan is not like Arab kingdoms.

 

[the Great Khan]

Mark my post, Pakistan will be the last man standing in these stakes.

And by that stage - a short few years from now - Israel won't care at the diplomatic orphan.

That's why Pakistan should join the Emiratis and Bahrainis and set up relations NOW. The novelty still exists and it'll be a diplomatic coup for both parties.

sometimes even when the whole world is wrong its is better to stand for what is right even if you are alone.

Pakistan will never recognise the apartheid state. It is a existential ideological issue for Pakistan and is not the same as some bedoiun doing the same. You will see who benefits from these new agreements.

My prediction is as soon as anybody in the upper echelons in Saudi agrees to recognition it will lead to an internal civil crisis amongst the Saudis. The Israel issue is linked directly to islamic escatology and there are enough people in Pakistan who will never allow this abomination to occur. the Palestinians are the guardians of Al Aqsa and have a high status during these end times we are living in. They are not going anywhere and we should continue to support their principled stand.

Those who want peace lack a true understanding of what Israel is and what Pakistan is too.

 

[Pakpak]

sometimes even when the whole world is wrong its is better to stand for what is right even if you are alone.

Pakistan will never recognise the apartheid state. It is a existential ideological issue for Pakistan and is not the same as some bedoiun doing the same. You will see who benefits from these new agreements.

My prediction is as soon as anybody in the upper echelons in Saudi agrees to recognition it will lead to an internal civil crisis amongst the Saudis. The Israel issue is linked directly to islamic escatology and there are enough people in Pakistan who will never allow this abomination to occur. the Palestinians are the guardians of Al Aqsa and have a high status during these end times we are living in. They are not going anywhere and we should continue to support their principled stand.

Those who want peace lack a true understanding of what Israel is and what Pakistan is too.

Do you really think so? They throw money at every civil issue. Bahrain and UAE, esp Bahrain, would never have recognised Israel without Saudi say so. I think the Saudis are testing the waters and so far the Arabs in UAE and Bahrain don't care either way, maybe I am wrong.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Do you really think so? They throw money at every civil issue. Bahrain and UAE, esp Bahrain, would never have recognised Israel without Saudi say so. I think the Saudis are testing the waters and so far the Arabs in UAE and Bahrain don't care either way, maybe I am wrong.

In the end the money will run out, in fact it is already dwindling fast. The Saudis hold themselves up as custodians of Islam, when they recognise Israel, their credibility as leaders of the Islamic world will be dealt a final blow. Most diehard Muslims already consider them and the other gulf arabs as frauds. Turkey and Iran will probably look to increase their own influence over the Islamic world as a result.

 

[Pakpak]

In the end the money will run out, in fact it is already dwindling fast. The Saudis hold themselves up as custodians of Islam, when they recognise Israel, their credibility as leaders of the Islamic world will be dealt a final blow. Most diehard Muslims already consider them and the other gulf arabs as frauds. Turkey and Iran will probably look to increase their own influence over the Islamic world as a result.

That's a fair point though many point out that Turkey already recognises Israel and has billions worth ni trade with them

 

[Varun]

sometimes even when the whole world is wrong its is better to stand for what is right even if you are alone.

Pakistan will never recognise the apartheid state. It is a existential ideological issue for Pakistan and is not the same as some bedoiun doing the same. You will see who benefits from these new agreements.

My prediction is as soon as anybody in the upper echelons in Saudi agrees to recognition it will lead to an internal civil crisis amongst the Saudis. The Israel issue is linked directly to islamic escatology and there are enough people in Pakistan who will never allow this abomination to occur. the Palestinians are the guardians of Al Aqsa and have a high status during these end times we are living in. They are not going anywhere and we should continue to support their principled stand.

Those who want peace lack a true understanding of what Israel is and what Pakistan is too.

Sure, but that's not the reason why Pakistan is refusing to recognize Israel.

Because if they carried forth that policy in letter and spirit, they would have to snap off relations with a hundred other countries - including China, India, the USA and Saudi Arabia.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That's a fair point though many point out that Turkey already recognises Israel and has billions worth ni trade with them

But Turkey under Erdogan has changed it's sights to the east since they never got much traction in their attempts to become part of Europe. They may have recognised Israel some time ago, but it's the general direction I am looking at, and certainly seems they are looking to flex their muscle in the Islamic world now, and given their history I wouldn't discount it.

 

[Greenstorm]

I don't think Pakistan will ever recognize Israel.

Recent proceedings in middle East are an indication that end of times is upon us.

Pakistan and Israel are destined to face off each other, probably in this century.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Sure, but that's not the reason why Pakistan is refusing to recognize Israel.

Because if they carried forth that policy in letter and spirit, they would have to snap off relations with a hundred other countries - including China, India, the USA and Saudi Arabia.

The reason is majority of the Pakistani population hates Israel. If you agree, then dont you think any democratic government that does so will pay a huge political cost?

 

[RickyG]

West is no longer the power corridor. China is. An Indian should know better.

Seeing as you ignored my question and are okay with boot licking China but not the US. I wanted to know how much did you sell your mother and sister for?

 

[the Great Khan]

Do you really think so? They throw money at every civil issue. Bahrain and UAE, esp Bahrain, would never have recognised Israel without Saudi say so. I think the Saudis are testing the waters and so far the Arabs in UAE and Bahrain don't care either way, maybe I am wrong.

Yes. The Saudis are going to face internal power issues within the next few years maybe in the next decade(s) or so. I predict it will be because they will look to either overtly recognise Israel or something will be leaked that puts the ruling family in a bind. It is inevitable. It will also be linked to internal unrest that could rise over the next few years..Either way they will face great difficulty in the coming years..

The bahrainy and UAE arabs are irrelevant to the wider picture. They think they are more important than they actually are and will soon find out what the cost of shaking hands with Bibi and his gangsters is all about.

 

[the Great Khan]

Sure, but that's not the reason why Pakistan is refusing to recognize Israel.

Because if they carried forth that policy in letter and spirit, they would have to snap off relations with a hundred other countries - including China, India, the USA and Saudi Arabia.

again you misunderstand the spiritual element here. Like it or not (and many in pakistan roll their eyes when some talk about this aspect) there is a very very significant part of the Pakistani population (I would say a massive majority) who believe that we will eventually face the Israelis one way or another. let me put it this way, we are the Muslim Israel. And two such entities cannot occupy the same space. At some point the sons of Abraham (as) will have a reckoning.

I can only speak from an islamic point of view but at the same time with my geopolitical hat on. I remember at the start of the Syrian war I spoke to a close friend and I told him Assad would survive and win that war. He has survived and perhaps not won in the sense we understand but in his mind he has won. Why did I make that prediction? Because of the prophecy from the Prophet (saw) where he mentions an incident where the king of Syria will send an army to attack the new leader of the arabs who will emerge from arabia. Before the war this prophecy didnt quite make sense. But now it does. it also speaks of how this arab leader will lead from Jerusalem and will be supported by an army from "Khurasan" which roughly translates as parts of afghanistan pakistan and iran.

So ask yourself how will an arab leader lead from jerusalem? what about this army from the east with authority? so alot of people in pakistan are steeped in this stuff and many just plain hate Israel.

Hence why it is different when it comes to Israel. its not just any country. it is a harbinger of the end times for Muslims..

 

[rockyboy2018]

Imagine having an Israeli visa on a Pakistani passport - the whole world will be at your step. One more funny thing, there will be a mini Pakistan as well in Israel like in the rest of the world. Jokes apart, We Pakistanis are really delusional people we only care about Islam only in matters like this other than that we break all its true teachings like there is no tomorrow(they quote prophet (saw) last time I checked he did not cheat, he did not plunder etc). This Ummah thing is no longer valid and Pakistan should try to live in the PRESENT not in the PAST. Respect should be MUTUAL , it should not be ONE WAY TRAFFIC. And these ARABS given a choice will treat Jews better than a so called Muslim Pakistani. However, delusional as they are they only care about fairy tales and as they are spon fed by their Islamic scholars. This Islam saver army of Pakistan did not protect east Pakistan and they are going to protect the rest of the religion. Why didn't this army shoot those 12 Indian airplanes that infiltrated its airspace a few months ago?

Delusional is an illness with no positive outcome in the end. The only thing we can do is, we improve our education system who can produce people who can do critical and independent thinking not some spoon-feeding thinking.

 

[sweep_shot]

No more a pariah

WHILE the Middle East is still abuzz with the opening up of relations between Israel and the UAE and with Bahrain, people have largely ignored a similar move in the Balkans. Kosovo and Serbia, both countries that had thus far refused to recognise Israel, have now agreed to do so.

Obviously, the Trump administration has been doing some heavy lifting in both regions. Exactly what was promised to Kosovo and Serbia remains unclear. And incidentally, the latter has thus far refused to recognise its neighbour.

Clearly, the dictates of the US elections in November outweigh all other considerations with Donald Trump. Thus far, we were led to believe that greater trade, fear of Iran, and Israeli high-tech weaponry were the drivers behind the UAE’s decision to transform its covert ties with Israel into a full-blown relationship. But recent reports suggest that the UAE had been upset by being refused access to the American F-35 jet fighters due to Israeli objections.

According to American policy — now enacted as law— Israel must maintain a “qualitative military edge” over its neighbours. The deal that bought Netanyahu’s consent to the sale of the F-35 is recognition by the UAE. Blocking the annexation of large parts of Palestinian land is just a sop for the larger Muslim world as the Israeli prime minister has only promised to “halt” this provocative move for now.

So what makes the F-35 so special, and worth $80 million each? Largely, the radar-evading materials used in its construction, as well as the intelligence-gathering technology it carries. Israel fears that its secrets could fall into the hands of its foes. But should Trump lose the election — something to be fervently wished for — Biden may well halt the sale. And as we have seen from the botched attacks by the UAE air force on Yemen, the country’s pilots are not exactly skilled in their use of sophisticated aircraft.

Whatever the real reason, the fear of Iran is certainly one as the US withdraws from the region following its reduced dependence on Arab oil. Thus, Iran has succeeded in driving many Sunni Arab countries into the US-Israel camp. Even Saudi Arabia, once the champion of Palestinian rights, has permitted commercial flights over the kingdom to shorten the flying time between Israel and the UAE.

Jordan and Egypt have had embassies in Tel Aviv for decades, as has Turkey. So when the Turkish president protested loudly against the UAE and Bahrain’s recognition of Israel, we must take his words with a pinch of salt. But whether we like it or not, there is a growing movement towards normalisation of ties with the Zionist state. The younger generation of Arabs want job opportunities and peace, not a perpetual state of war with a powerful neighbour.

In a sense, the Palestinians have proved to be their own worst enemies. In Jimmy Carter, they had the friendliest American president they are likely to get. Bill Clinton did his best to push an agreement through. But the PLO’s rigidity and Israel’s hunger for land blocked any chance for genuine rapprochement. Now, with Trump’s openly pro-Israel policies, the US has dropped all pretence of being an honest broker between the two parties.

Having written dozens of columns critical of Israel’s land grab and oppressive policies, I have also argued that recognition is not a reward for good behaviour. Had this been so, half the world would not recognise the other half. With normalisation comes the right to summon an envoy to register a protest against illegal policies in his or her country.

With our head-in-the-sand attitude towards Israel, we can only observe from the sidelines. This is not exactly helpful to the Palestinians, even though they have described the UAE initiative as a “stab in the back”. Also, oil-rich Middle East states have become tired of having to dish out cash regularly to the corrupt administrations controlling the West Bank and Gaza. As oil revenues fall steadily with no recovery in sight, this subsidy is becoming increasingly unpopular.

So where does this realignment leave us? We are fixated on a policy laid down decades ago that dictated that Pakistan would only recognise Israel when all Palestinian land seized in the 1967 war was returned. But with over half a million Israelis living in dozens of settlements built in occupied West Bank, this was unlikely to happen. With a hawkish, right-wing alliance in power, it is even less likely. Even if Netanyahu is defeated, the consensus in Israel is that they need large chunks of the West Bank for security.

And while we rightly want justice for Palestinians, what are we doing about the ongoing persecution of Chinese Muslim Uighurs, or the attempted genocide of Muslim Rohingya in Myanmar? The shameful silence of the Islamic world on the plight of these two wretched communities says a lot for our moral bankruptcy.

irfan.husain@gmail.com

Published in Dawn, September 19th, 2020

Source: https://www.dawn.com/news/1580485/no-more-a-pariah?preview.

 

[Nadeemp]

again you misunderstand the spiritual element here. Like it or not (and many in pakistan roll their eyes when some talk about this aspect) there is a very very significant part of the pakistani population (i would say a massive majority) who believe that we will eventually face the israelis one way or another. Let me put it this way, we are the muslim israel. And two such entities cannot occupy the same space. At some point the sons of abraham (as) will have a reckoning.

I can only speak from an islamic point of view but at the same time with my geopolitical hat on. I remember at the start of the syrian war i spoke to a close friend and i told him assad would survive and win that war. He has survived and perhaps not won in the sense we understand but in his mind he has won. Why did i make that prediction? Because of the prophecy from the prophet (saw) where he mentions an incident where the king of syria will send an army to attack the new leader of the arabs who will emerge from arabia. Before the war this prophecy didnt quite make sense. But now it does. It also speaks of how this arab leader will lead from jerusalem and will be supported by an army from "khurasan" which roughly translates as parts of afghanistan pakistan and iran.

So ask yourself how will an arab leader lead from jerusalem? What about this army from the east with authority? So alot of people in pakistan are steeped in this stuff and many just plain hate israel.

Hence why it is different when it comes to israel. Its not just any country. It is a harbinger of the end times for muslims..

you are being delusional .

 

[uberkoen]

again you misunderstand the spiritual element here. Like it or not (and many in pakistan roll their eyes when some talk about this aspect) there is a very very significant part of the Pakistani population (I would say a massive majority) who believe that we will eventually face the Israelis one way or another. let me put it this way, we are the Muslim Israel. And two such entities cannot occupy the same space. At some point the sons of Abraham (as) will have a reckoning.

I can only speak from an islamic point of view but at the same time with my geopolitical hat on. I remember at the start of the Syrian war I spoke to a close friend and I told him Assad would survive and win that war. He has survived and perhaps not won in the sense we understand but in his mind he has won. Why did I make that prediction? Because of the prophecy from the Prophet (saw) where he mentions an incident where the king of Syria will send an army to attack the new leader of the arabs who will emerge from arabia. Before the war this prophecy didnt quite make sense. But now it does. it also speaks of how this arab leader will lead from Jerusalem and will be supported by an army from "Khurasan" which roughly translates as parts of afghanistan pakistan and iran.

So ask yourself how will an arab leader lead from jerusalem? what about this army from the east with authority? so alot of people in pakistan are steeped in this stuff and many just plain hate Israel.

Hence why it is different when it comes to Israel. its not just any country. it is a harbinger of the end times for Muslims..

Wow. Using fantasy to make decisions on foreign policy. This is a new one.

 

[the Great Khan]

Wow. Using fantasy to make decisions on foreign policy. This is a new one.

You can believe its fantasy all you want. I am merely providing you will a very dominant alternative view that is held within Pakistan that ultimately shapes public opinion and institutional memory. To ignore it shows how narrow your thinking is.

Coming onto the "rational" view. What use is recognising Israel for Pakistan? Will india stop coveting Kashmir? will the Israelis stop supporting the Indians? Will they stop providing weapons to them? of course not. they are part of the western alliance and will follow the US's lead when it comes to south asia. You are deluded if you think they will shower you with gold and silver. Many have thought as you do across the years.

Geopolitically it is in our interest to look after our borders which means a tight relationship with Iran, afghanistan and peace with india. Israel must first cease their settlement building, obey international law, free the palestinians from occupation and provide a just settlement to them. there is nothing else for us to discuss with them.

 

[uberkoen]

You can believe its fantasy all you want. I am merely providing you will a very dominant alternative view that is held within Pakistan that ultimately shapes public opinion and institutional memory. To ignore it shows how narrow your thinking is.

Coming onto the "rational" view. What use is recognising Israel for Pakistan? Will india stop coveting Kashmir? will the Israelis stop supporting the Indians? Will they stop providing weapons to them? of course not. they are part of the western alliance and will follow the US's lead when it comes to south asia. You are deluded if you think they will shower you with gold and silver. Many have thought as you do across the years.

Geopolitically it is in our interest to look after our borders which means a tight relationship with Iran, afghanistan and peace with india. Israel must first cease their settlement building, obey international law, free the palestinians from occupation and provide a just settlement to them. there is nothing else for us to discuss with them.

What advantage to we have to gain from Israel ceasing settlement building and then recognizing them?

 

[Technics 1210]

Pakistan should not recognise Isreal because the Torah doesn't recognise Isreal. No mention of Jerusulam or Isreal in the Torah!

Recognising Isreal has nothing to do with Islam. Anti semitism is more rife in the West than Pakistan.

Isreal is a honey trap. Recognise Isreal and you get Israeli protection (mainly against Iran) in the region, and of course the banking and mainstream media benefits.

It's a protection racket.

 

[the Great Khan]

What advantage to we have to gain from Israel ceasing settlement building and then recognizing them?

we wont recognise them if they just cease settlement building. We will only recognise them once they have agreed a comprehensive peace deal with Palestine. End of. This will show that we respect international law and that the Kashmir issue should be resolved in accordance with UN resolutions like Palestine. Our recognition is tied to the rights of the palestinians and UN resolutions.

If we recognise Israel without this , it weakens our case vis a vis India. Also recognising them without a deal will put pressure on our western border with Iran and will effect our relationship there. Israel will expect friendly relations which means the Mossad on the western border. Iran will thus look to stoke sectarian problems within Pakistan and would rather a broken un governable Pakistan (with india's help) than one that will allow an Isreali presence. Israel will also play a double game with us. They will pretend to be our friend and then use various methods to de nuclearise us as these weapons will always remain a threat for them no matter what. They will continue to arm india like the west already does and will follow the american lead here. There is zero benefit to us in recognising them until a palestinian peace deal is agreed. Then its a more formal thing and we dont have to go all in..Just a tip of the hat, yes hello hi bye..

 

[Romali_rotti]

End of. This will show that we respect international law and that the Kashmir issue should be resolved in accordance with UN resolutions like Palestine..

If we recognise Israel without this , it weakens our case vis a vis India. ..

Pure Hypothesis:

If India agreed to the UN resolution requirement, do you think Pakistan will withdraw all of its troops from POK while India keeps minimal troop presence in Kashmir as per UN resolution requirements and then let the Kashmiris vote ?

 

[uberkoen]

we wont recognise them if they just cease settlement building. We will only recognise them once they have agreed a comprehensive peace deal with Palestine. End of. This will show that we respect international law and that the Kashmir issue should be resolved in accordance with UN resolutions like Palestine. Our recognition is tied to the rights of the palestinians and UN resolutions.

If we recognise Israel without this , it weakens our case vis a vis India. Also recognising them without a deal will put pressure on our western border with Iran and will effect our relationship there. Israel will expect friendly relations which means the Mossad on the western border. Iran will thus look to stoke sectarian problems within Pakistan and would rather a broken un governable Pakistan (with india's help) than one that will allow an Isreali presence. Israel will also play a double game with us. They will pretend to be our friend and then use various methods to de nuclearise us as these weapons will always remain a threat for them no matter what. They will continue to arm india like the west already does and will follow the american lead here. There is zero benefit to us in recognising them until a palestinian peace deal is agreed. Then its a more formal thing and we dont have to go all in..Just a tip of the hat, yes hello hi bye..

Good points raised. I might not agree with everything you've said here but your arguments are logical specially the ones related to Iran.

 

[Pakpak]

we wont recognise them if they just cease settlement building. We will only recognise them once they have agreed a comprehensive peace deal with Palestine. End of. This will show that we respect international law and that the Kashmir issue should be resolved in accordance with UN resolutions like Palestine. Our recognition is tied to the rights of the palestinians and UN resolutions.

If we recognise Israel without this , it weakens our case vis a vis India. Also recognising them without a deal will put pressure on our western border with Iran and will effect our relationship there. Israel will expect friendly relations which means the Mossad on the western border. Iran will thus look to stoke sectarian problems within Pakistan and would rather a broken un governable Pakistan (with india's help) than one that will allow an Isreali presence. Israel will also play a double game with us. They will pretend to be our friend and then use various methods to de nuclearise us as these weapons will always remain a threat for them no matter what. They will continue to arm india like the west already does and will follow the american lead here. There is zero benefit to us in recognising them until a palestinian peace deal is agreed. Then its a more formal thing and we dont have to go all in..Just a tip of the hat, yes hello hi bye..

Even tho I am in the uberkoen camp but Someone on the opposing side with finally some good logical points. I agree with the denuclerisation bit especially.

 

[the Great Khan]

Pure Hypothesis:

If India agreed to the UN resolution requirement, do you think Pakistan will withdraw all of its troops from POK while India keeps minimal troop presence in Kashmir as per UN resolution requirements and then let the Kashmiris vote ?

We can come to an agreement about troops as long as their is a timeline for a resolution. Thats what negotiations are for. Both sides could agree a UN peace force on both sides of the border for example.

But I will be brutally honest now, kashmir wont get resolved anymore. We may aswell call the LOC the international border with some disputed areas here and there. With CPEC and whats going on in Ladakh i cant see any resolution happening short of a military adventure from one side that then forces a solution , good or bad..

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan is under pressure from the US and other countries to normalise ties with Israel, Prime Minister Imran Khan said, but insisted Islamabad will not open up relations with the "Zionists".

Cash-strapped Pakistan relies on the support of Gulf Arab states, particularly Saudi Arabia, who have been overtly and covertly building ties to Israel in recent years.

In September, the UAE and Bahrain signed a US-brokered normalisation agreement with Israel, and have been rapidly building ties since.

Sudan last month became the latest Arab or Islamic country to follow suit after heavy pressure from Abu Dhabi and Washington. Last week, Khan revealed that Pakistan, too, was being pressed to recognise Israel.

Khan told local media "Israel's deep influence in the US" was behind the pressure.

"This influence was in fact extraordinary during the Trump stint," he said.

When asked if Muslim countries were also applying pressure, Khan said: "There are things we cannot say. We have good relations with them.

"I have no second thought about recognising Israel unless there is a just settlement, which satisfies Palestine," he added.

In September 2019, Middle East Eye reported Imran Khan saying that "Pakistan has a very straightforward position. It was our founder of Pakistan Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah who was very clear that there has to be just settlement, a homeland for Palestinians before Pakistan can recognise Israel."

He reiterated his position this week, adding that "Islamabad would continue to follow in Jinnah's footsteps vis-a-vis Palestine."

Commenting on the policy of the US President-elect Joe Biden regarding issues of Palestine and Afghanistan, Khan said: "Afghanistan is not the real issue. The real issue is Israel. It is to be seen how Biden deals with that. Whether he changes Trump's policies about Israel or continues with them."

Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah, sent a thankful letter to Khan following his comments.

"We highly appreciate your adherence to your positions in support of the Palestinian people to obtain their legitimate rights," Abbas wrote.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/pakistan-israel-under-pressure-recognise-imran-khan

 

[MenInG]

The Foreign Office (FO) has rejected as "fabrication" reports quoting Prime Minister Imran Khan as saying Pakistan was facing pressure from the United States to recognise Israel in the wake of peace deals between several Arab states and Tel Aviv.

"The prime minister had clearly articulated Pakistan’s position that unless a just settlement of the Palestine issue — satisfactory to the Palestinian people — was found, Pakistan could not recognise Israel," FO spokesman Zahid Hafeez Chaudri said in a statement on Tuesday.

A day earlier, Dawn had published a story quoting the premier as saying that pressure to recognise Israel was “extraordinary during the Trump stint”. The story was based off of a separate report carried by the Middle East Eye (MEE) website — a portal with a focus on the region.

"The prime minister had stressed that Pakistan’s policy in this regard was rooted in Quaid-i-Azam’s vision," the FO spokesman said.

"The prime minister's remarks are an unequivocal reaffirmation of Pakistan’s position on the subject, leaving no room for baseless speculation.

"For a just, comprehensive and lasting peace, Pakistan will continue to support a two-state solution in accordance with the relevant United Nations and OIC resolutions as well as international law, with pre-1967 borders and Al-Quds Al-Sharif as the capital of Palestine," the spokesman said.

Earlier this year, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Sudan normalised relations with Israel, while reports in the media stated that the Trump administration was goading Saudi Arabia to do the same. Riyadh has so far not followed in the footsteps of its Gulf and Arab allies.

No recognition of Israel unless Palestine freed: Imran

In a television interview in August, the premier had categorically said that Pakistan could not recognise Israel as a state unless it gave freedom to Palestine.

"Quaid-i-Azam had said in 1948 that Pakistan could not recognise Israel unless it gave freedom to Palestinians.

“If we recognise Israel and ignore tyranny faced by the Palestinians, we will have to give up (the cause of) Kashmir as well, and this we cannot do," he had said in a two-hour late-night interview with Dunya TV.

Source Dawn

 

[Nadeemp]

Pakistán will eventually open up and have formal relations with Israel. Uae, Bahrain and saudí already have

 

[Nadeemp]

If you can have relations with Saudi or China then why not israel.

 

[MenInG]

Saudi pressure will come soon

===

Israeli media reported on Monday that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu flew to Saudi Arabia for a clandestine meeting with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, which would mark the first known encounter between senior Israeli and Saudi officials.

Hebrew-language media cited an unnamed Israeli official as saying that Netanyahu and Yossi Cohen, head of Israel’s Mossad spy agency, flew to the Saudi city of Neom on Sunday, where they met with the crown prince. The prince was there for talks with visiting United Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

A Gulfstream IV private jet took off just after 1740 GMT from Ben-Gurion International Airport near Tel Aviv, according to data from website FlightRadar24.com. The flight traveled south along the eastern edge of the Sinai Peninsula before turning toward Neom and landing just after 1830 GMT, according to the data. The flight took off from Neom around 2150 GMT and followed the same route back to Tel Aviv.

The Israeli prime minister’s office did not respond to requests for comment.

ARTICLE CONTINUES AFTER AD

Pompeo traveled with an American press pool on his trip throughout the Mideast, but left them at the Neom airport when he went into his visit with the crown prince.

While Bahrain, Sudan and the United Arab Emirates have reached deals under the Trump administration to normalise ties with Israel, Saudi Arabia so far has remained out of reach.

King Salman long has supported the Palestinians in their effort to secure an independent state. However, analysts and insiders suggest his 35-year-old son, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, is likely more open to the idea of normalising relations without major progress in the moribund peace process.

The kingdom approved the use of Saudi airspace for Israeli flights to the UAE, a decision announced the day after Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser, met with Prince Mohammed in Riyadh. Bahrain normalising ties also suggests at least a Saudi acquiescence to the idea, as the island kingdom relies on Riyadh.

ARTICLE CONTINUES AFTER AD

Israel has long had clandestine ties to Gulf Arab states that have strengthened in recent years as they have confronted a shared threat in Iran.

 

[MenInG]

Islamabad, Pakistan – Pakistan’s foreign ministry has reiterated the country is not considering recognising the state of Israel, in line with existing policy, according to a statement, even as Arab allies have moved to do so.

In a statement released on Tuesday, Pakistani foreign ministry spokesperson Zahid Hafeez Chaudhri “categorically rejected baseless speculation regarding possibility of recognition of the State of Israel by Pakistan”.

“Pakistan steadfastly supports the Palestinian people’s inalienable right to self-determination,” said the statement, which was in line with the country’s position on the conflict.

“For just and lasting peace, it is imperative to have a two-state solution in accordance with the relevant United Nations and OIC resolutions, with the pre-1967 borders, and Al-Quds Al-Sharif as the capital of a viable, independent and contiguous Palestinian State.”

Questions have been raised on whether Pakistan would join Arab allies the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, who moved to normalise relations with Israel in September. A first Bahraini delegation visited Israel last week.

On Monday, Israeli media reported Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had secretly travelled to Saudi Arabia a day earlier for talks with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

Saudi’s foreign minister, however, denied the report and Netanyahu’s office did not comment on it.

Since September, US President Donald Trump’s administration has brokered agreements with the UAE, Bahrain and Sudan to normalise their relations with Israel.

Palestine-Israel conflict

Earlier this month, Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan appeared to confirm there was pressure on Pakistan to also sign such an agreement.

“Several things we cannot say because we have good relations with [countries] and we do not wish to upset them,” Khan said in an interview with local media, responding to a question on whether Pakistan was facing such pressure. “God willing, let our country stand on its own two feet and then you can ask me such questions.”

Khan also reiterated Pakistan’s stance on the Palestine-Israel conflict in that interview, saying there was no change to it.

“For me there has never been a second thought on this,” he said. “We cannot accept Israel because […] until Palestinians are not given a just settlement, as in a settlement which they accept, we cannot accept [Israel].”

Analysts say there is external pressure on Pakistan to recognise Israel, but there has also been an internal debate on the question for more than 10 years.

“There may be some suggestion from other countries for Pakistan to recognise Israel, but there is also an internal debate ongoing on this question for a very long time within the Pakistani establishment, that Pakistan should have some kind of relationship with Israel,” says Zahid Hussain, an analyst and senior journalist.

Hussain argues while Pakistan may not fully recognise Israel’s statehood, it may move to normalise ties in other ways. He says Pakistan’s military – which has directly ruled the country for roughly half of its 73-year history and continues to hold power over large parts of foreign and domestic policy – has a role to play on the issue.

“The military is very interested in that – some kind of a relationship, not necessarily to recognise it, but there is a sense that the Israeli lobby in the United States is very strong, and maybe it could help neutralise Israeli-India cooperation as well.”

Nevertheless, Hussain said there was “no question” of Pakistan formally recognising Israel at this time, although if regional ally Saudi Arabia were to do so, it “might give some encouragement to Pakistan”.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...-recognising-israel?__twitter_impression=true

 

[The Viper]

Pakistan will not accept Israel unless Palestine issue is resolved, says Tahir Ashrafi

Special Representative to the Prime Minister on Religious Harmony, Hafiz Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi on Wednesday said that Pakistan will not recognise Israel until the issue of Palestine is resolved.

Addressing a press conference, Ashrafi said that Pakistan's stance on Palestine and Kashmir is very clear, therefore, the country is not going to make any compromises on that.

"Pakistan shares a bond of love with Palestine. Therefore, it will not recognise Israel unless they resolve the problem of Palestine," Tahir Ashrafi stressed.

He said that Prime Minister Imran Khan can leave his post but he cannot back down on the issue of Palestine and Kashmir, adding that Arab countries, especially Saudi Arabia, stand with Pakistan concerning the matter.

"Pakistan should not appear weak for no reason," he said.

Touching upon the topic of religious harmony in the country, Tahir Ashrafi said that the government is setting up an inter-faith council to solve all related problems at the grassroots level.

"No one has the right to impose coercive decisions on non-Muslims in this country," he said.

He also talked about the incidences of blasphemy in Pakistan which have decreased by 90% in recent years due to concerted efforts of the government.

"Pakistan's foreign minister is about to attend a meeting of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), where we will demand that blasphemy be made an international crime," he said. "There should be legislation in the United Nations to honour all the prophets and divine books."

Among other topics, Tahir Ashrafi also shed light on the surging coronavirus cases in the country, saying that the government's standard operating procedures (SOPs) will be strictly followed in all religious congregations.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/320520-pa...alestine-issue-is-resolved-says-tahir-ashrafi

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Asad Rahim Khan in his DAWN column today hits the proverbial nail on the head:

"By recognizing a settler colony like Israel, Pakistan will win no new friends, risk losing the ones it already has, enrage its people, condemn the Palestinians to oblivion, and cede the Kashmiris to their occupiers. Doesn't seem a fair trade."

 

[MenInG]

Asad Rahim Khan in his DAWN column today hits the proverbial nail on the head:

"By recognizing a settler colony like Israel, Pakistan will win no new friends, risk losing the ones it already has, enrage its people, condemn the Palestinians to oblivion, and cede the Kashmiris to their occupiers. Doesn't seem a fair trade."

Pakistan already being pressured by GCC....

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Pakistan already being pressured by GCC....

GCC is just another acronym for Saudi Arabia and UAE. Others like Bahrain and Oman won't care if we normalize with Israel or not. Whereas, Qatar is already at odds with KSA, UAE and closer to Turkey.

 

[Shah]

We have diplomatic relations with India, a country with which we have fought numerous wars with and are still in a state of war on a daily basis (India constantly shells Pakistan positions). The countries that Israel fought wars with have diplomatic relations with it like Egypt and Jordan. At this rate, we will be only one of 2 or 3 countries that do not have relations with Israel. Already not recognizing Israel is costing us billions in U.S. aid, loss of visas for Pakistanis in the UAE, unnecessary enmity with Israel which is a very strong military and technological power. We are forcing Israel to go to the India camp. Israel is not Pakistan's enemy, India is. The Palestinians do not care about Pakistan and they have always supported India.

 

[CricketCartoons]

We have diplomatic relations with India, a country with which we have fought numerous wars with and are still in a state of war on a daily basis (India constantly shells Pakistan positions). The countries that Israel fought wars with have diplomatic relations with it like Egypt and Jordan. At this rate, we will be only one of 2 or 3 countries that do not have relations with Israel. Already not recognizing Israel is costing us billions in U.S. aid, loss of visas for Pakistanis in the UAE, unnecessary enmity with Israel which is a very strong military and technological power. We are forcing Israel to go to the India camp. Israel is not Pakistan's enemy, India is. The Palestinians do not care about Pakistan and they have always supported India.

if pakistan establishes diplomatic relations with israel, it tantamounts to recognizing it as a country. Might as well recognize kashmir as one of the states in india. commend pakistan for its ideologically consistent stand on israel and supporting the palestinian cause irrespective of reciprocity from the arab states. will be the death of the ideals it stands for if pakistan accepts israel as a nation in its present form.

 

[Shah]

if pakistan establishes diplomatic relations with israel, it tantamounts to recognizing it as a country.

Israel is already a country whether you like it or not. The sooner we accept this fact, the better it is for Pakistan. From personal encounters during a visit to Israel and feedback from other Pakistanis, Israelis are not racist towards Pakistanis. Palestinians on the other hand are very racist towards Pakistanis.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

GCC is just another acronym for Saudi Arabia and UAE. Others like Bahrain and Oman won't care if we normalize with Israel or not. Whereas, Qatar is already at odds with KSA, UAE and closer to Turkey.

Said this plenty of times already on here, usually in response to Varun who takes a deep interest in Palestinian affairs.

 

[Varun]

If KSA and UAE have decided that it's time to accept Israel, Pakistan won't hold out for very long. Those two control a lot of levers in Pakistan's economy and even a slight nudge here or there will result in oil supplies being endangered, aid being withdrawn, or foreign workers heading back to the Punjab in droves. All negatives for Pakistan, and recognizing Israel is a small price to pay relatively.

 

[The Viper]

Can’t recognise Israel until Palestine resolved: Pakistan to UAE

Pakistan says it has made it clear to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) that Islamabad cannot recognise Israel until the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not resolved.

“I categorically presented Pakistan’s stance on Israel to the UAE’s foreign minister that we will not and cannot establish a relationship with Israel until a concrete and permanent solution to the Palestine issue is found,” Pakistan’s Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi told reporters in the central city of Multan on Monday.

Qureshi’s statement came days after his visit to the UAE, which was seen by many as crucial amid rumours that Islamabad had secretly sent a messenger to Israel.

Islamabad denied the reports, which appeared mainly in the Israeli media.

Responding to questions regarding reports about alleged pressure from Saudi Arabia, the UAE and other Gulf states for recognition of Israel, Qureshi said he explained to his UAE counterpart the “depth of emotions and feelings Pakistanis have about Palestine and Kashmir”.

The UAE foreign minister, he contended, “fully understood our feelings” on the two issues.

Rebuffing reports about pressure on Islamabad to recognise Israel, he said, “Number one, there will be no pressure on us nor there is. Number two, we have to make decisions keeping Pakistan’s interests in view and not because of any pressure. We have a policy and we are still steadfast on it.”

He said Prime Minister Imran Khan had “time and again clarified there is no pressure on us in this regard”.

Khan made headlines last month when he revealed that Islamabad had been under pressure from some “friendly” nations to recognise Israel.

Although he stopped short of naming the countries despite being repeatedly asked whether they were Muslim or non-Muslim countries, many believe the Pakistani leader was referring to Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

The UAE, Bahrain and Morocco recently established diplomatic and economic relations with Israel, while reports suggest some other Gulf states, including Saudi Arabia, are also weighing the options to normalise ties.

In recent years, Pakistan’s relations with its traditional Gulf allies have come under strain due to Islamabad’s “neutrality” on several issues, including the war in Yemen and the blockade on Qatar imposed by a Saudi Arabia-led Arab alliance.

Riyadh also appears to be irked by criticism from Islamabad over its lukewarm stance on Pakistan’s longstanding dispute with India over the Himalayan territory of Kashmir, claimed in full by both the South Asian neighbours.

Visa restrictions
Meanwhile, Pakistan’s foreign ministry spokesman Zahid Hafeez Chaudhry, in a statement on Sunday, said Qureshi also raised the issue of visa restrictions on Pakistani nationals in the meeting with his UAE counterpart.

He said Qureshi was assured the visa restrictions were “temporary” and were imposed due to the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Last month, the UAE stopped issuing new visas to citizens of 13 mostly-Muslim countries. The decision took effect on November 18 and included citizens from Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Kenya, Lebanon, Tunisia, Algeria, Turkey, and Iran.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...ved-pakistan-to-uae?__twitter_impression=true

 

[KingKhanWC]

Again a hypocritical and a pathetic post which shows the mindset of some of the posters here. Why are we okay with going into bed with China when they are committing a genocide? Why should Pakistan take a stand for Palestine when they have never done so for Pakistan and Kashmir? Why should we sacrifice potential trade which could benefit the people of Pakistan (regardless of the value of that trade) for the Palestinians? Any economic impact as a result of the Israeli recognition will be good for Pakistan and the people of Pakistan. Why should we sacrifice the Pakistani people for the Palestinians?

You an athiest but itching to recognise a land based on religous extremism or do you believe in God now and believe God gave Jews this land?

Its not WE, the people of Pakistan do not believe as you do. The majority of them DO NOT want to recognise Israel and it will wont happen until they do. Accept it and stop crying.

 

[Pakpak]

If KSA and UAE have decided that it's time to accept Israel, Pakistan won't hold out for very long. Those two control a lot of levers in Pakistan's economy and even a slight nudge here or there will result in oil supplies being endangered, aid being withdrawn, or foreign workers heading back to the Punjab in droves. All negatives for Pakistan, and recognizing Israel is a small price to pay relatively.

Saudi aid has been given back to them as recently as last week as far as I know. As for Israel, any party who recognises them might as well hurry in self-exile, the population would tear them apart.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Saudi aid has been given back to them as recently as last week as far as I know. As for Israel, any party who recognises them might as well hurry in self-exile, the population would tear them apart.

Not suggesting you, as you're mature than most who dont accept religion but Im struggling to understand one thing here. We have some people who are anti religion to the extent of not wanting Pakistan to be an Islamic republic but at the same time want the world to recognise a nation based on a religious book, a nation which oppresses others because God didnt choose them as the chosen ones. Do you know why?

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Pakistan will never recognise Israel, and shouldn’t do so. The last thing we need is 200 million people going crazy in the streets.

Pakistan also can’t risk damaging its relationship with Saudi Royals, they’ll end up banning Pakistani pilgrims.

There’s only one option, help Iran overthrow the Saudi Monarchy.

 

[Pakpak]

Not suggesting you, as you're mature than most who dont accept religion but Im struggling to understand one thing here. We have some people who are anti religion to the extent of not wanting Pakistan to be an Islamic republic but at the same time want the world to recognise a nation based on a religious book, a nation which oppresses others because God didnt choose them as the chosen ones. Do you know why?

That's a good question. Israel pretends to be a secular democracy so yes you're right, its not one. But if their public are happy with it who am I to say? Which is why you might have noticed I have never clamoured for Pakistan to be secular because despite my wishes if its not the will of the people then that's that really. My loyalty is to Pakistan and Britain. Since this post is about Pakistan so for me if anything benefits Pakistan or makes our impression or soft power increase I am all for it. I personally believe every nation has a right to be recognised, unless its opposed by the majority of the countries in the UN. Examples like Kosovo or Crimea which are not universally recognised so therefore we can make a point there. India and Afghanistan have killed thousands of Pakistanis in proxy and direct wars, they refuse to recognise large parts of our country (Durand Line and AJK) yet despite wars and tens of thousands dead we recognise them. So for Israel I suspect Pakistan would only recognise them in return for something, eg Morocco got some land legitimised by the US. US wipes off the debts, gives the army money for jets and planes or something like that then I am sure the establishment would think of something. I don't support Palestinians being abused but I don't believe us recognising or not recognising them is making their situation any better or any worse. And also the day the Saudis recognise them we will follow. Mark my words on that, whether that spells doom for their monarchy is another topic (it probably would).

HOWEVER I have been thinking recently, what comes with recognising Israel. We have enough problems with Indian spies running around, do we really need Mossad agents rampaging in our nation too sabotaging our nuclear program like they are doing with the Iranians? So I am sure this single issue might also play a massive part on our establishment's thinking when it comes to this topic of handing out recognition.

As for religion, for me religion doesn't come into it at all. You barely se me in any religious debates online and I am sure have appreciated I have never been insulting anytime I DID debate religious views. Its a personal matter for me and it ends at that and doesn't influence my thinking with anyone. Some of my best friends are very religious Muslims for instance. I have also had the rare chance to meet with actual Jewish Israelis, 2 of whom were in the IDF at one point. All of them were as normal and nice as you and me and some of them actively supported peace with Palestinians and were surprised to hear Pakistan doesn't recognise them and expressed desire to visit the country whenever they would be allowed.

 

[KingKhanWC]

That's a good question. Israel pretends to be a secular democracy so yes you're right, its not one. But if their public are happy with it who am I to say? Which is why you might have noticed I have never clamoured for Pakistan to be secular because despite my wishes if its not the will of the people then that's that really. My loyalty is to Pakistan and Britain. Since this post is about Pakistan so for me if anything benefits Pakistan or makes our impression or soft power increase I am all for it. I personally believe every nation has a right to be recognised, unless its opposed by the majority of the countries in the UN. Examples like Kosovo or Crimea which are not universally recognised so therefore we can make a point there. India and Afghanistan have killed thousands of Pakistanis in proxy and direct wars, they refuse to recognise large parts of our country (Durand Line and AJK) yet despite wars and tens of thousands dead we recognise them. So for Israel I suspect Pakistan would only recognise them in return for something, eg Morocco got some land legitimised by the US. US wipes off the debts, gives the army money for jets and planes or something like that then I am sure the establishment would think of something. I don't support Palestinians being abused but I don't believe us recognising or not recognising them is making their situation any better or any worse. And also the day the Saudis recognise them we will follow. Mark my words on that, whether that spells doom for their monarchy is another topic (it probably would).

HOWEVER I have been thinking recently, what comes with recognising Israel. We have enough problems with Indian spies running around, do we really need Mossad agents rampaging in our nation too sabotaging our nuclear program like they are doing with the Iranians? So I am sure this single issue might also play a massive part on our establishment's thinking when it comes to this topic of handing out recognition.

As for religion, for me religion doesn't come into it at all. You barely se me in any religious debates online and I am sure have appreciated I have never been insulting anytime I DID debate religious views. Its a personal matter for me and it ends at that and doesn't influence my thinking with anyone. Some of my best friends are very religious Muslims for instance. I have also had the rare chance to meet with actual Jewish Israelis, 2 of whom were in the IDF at one point. All of them were as normal and nice as you and me and some of them actively supported peace with Palestinians and were surprised to hear Pakistan doesn't recognise them and expressed desire to visit the country whenever they would be allowed.

Interesting post.

I'd say Pakistan will only recognise Israel when Palestinians are given their rights which include their own nation including East Jerusalem, which wont ever happen as the Jews want to build their temple where Al-Aqsa is now.

My main issue was with athiests rooting for Israel for no reason at all, which is very strange as Israel is the most religous extremist nation in history. They probably are Zionist supporters because Zionism hates Muslims but who knows.

 

[Pakpak]

Interesting post.

I'd say Pakistan will only recognise Israel when Palestinians are given their rights which include their own nation including East Jerusalem, which wont ever happen as the Jews want to build their temple where Al-Aqsa is now.

My main issue was with athiests rooting for Israel for no reason at all, which is very strange as Israel is the most religous extremist nation in history. They probably are Zionist supporters because Zionism hates Muslims but who knows.

Well you can't generalise. You will have extreme views amongst any demographic. I see plenty of Muslims in Pakistan (some even in the West) calling for blasphemers to be killed but I know most Muslims don't support it. So not all ex-Muslims or atheists support Palestinians being oppressed. Its just that the internet and online portals magnify voices that aren't usually the majority. I'll make an exception for BJP paid trolls however

 

[KingKhanWC]

Well you can't generalise. You will have extreme views amongst any demographic. I see plenty of Muslims in Pakistan (some even in the West) calling for blasphemers to be killed but I know most Muslims don't support it. So not all ex-Muslims or atheists support Palestinians being oppressed. Its just that the internet and online portals magnify voices that aren't usually the majority. I'll make an exception for BJP paid trolls however

Yes its difficult to assert who is who on the net, esp since we know Zionist Israel pays trolls to do their bidding. I wont mention any names but I know for sure at least one on here who is paid, as his posts have appreared on other platforms too.

I just hope Israel is seen for what it is, an extremist apartheid terrorist outpost created by others to take land of others.

 

[MenInG]

JERUSALEM: Israel is working towards formalising relations with a fifth Muslim country, possibly in Asia, during US President Donald Trump’s term, an Israeli cabinet minister said on Wednesday.

The White House has brokered rapprochements bet*ween Israel and the UAE, Bahrain, Sudan and Morocco this year. Rabat hosted an Israeli-US delegation on Tuesday to flesh out the upgrade in relations.

Asked if a fifth country could sign up before Trump steps down on Jan 20, Regional Cooperation Minister Ofir Akunis told Israel’s Ynet TV: “We are working in that direction.”

“I believe ... there will be an American announcement about another country that is going public with the normalisation of relations with Israel and, in essence, with the infrastructure for an accord — a peace accord,” he said.

Officials have said they are trying to get more countries to recognise Israel or warm existing ties to it.

Akunis said there were two main candidate countries to become the next to move towards normal ties with Israel. He did not name either but said one is in the Gulf and could be Oman but would not be Saudi Arabia. The other, further to the east, is a “Muslim country that is not small” but is not Pakistan, he said.

Indonesia, the most populous Muslim country, said last week it would not recognise Israel as long as Palestinian statehood demands remain unmet. Malaysia has signalled a similar policy.

“Malaysia’s firm stance on the Palestinian issue will not change,” Deputy Foreign Minister Kamarudin Jaffar told the country’s senate on Wednesday, adding that Kuala Lumpur would not interfere in other nations’ decisions on Israel.

In Dhaka, a foreign ministry official said Bangladesh was not interested in establishing diplomatic ties with Israel. “Our position remains the same,” he told Reuters.

Oman has praised the US-brokered diplomatic drive but has not commented on its own prospects of forging Israel ties.

The Palestinians, whose negotiations with Israel stalled in 2014, fear being sidelined by the normalisation process.

Published in Dawn, December 24th, 2020

 

[Varun]

JERUSALEM: Israel is working towards formalising relations with a fifth Muslim country, possibly in Asia, during US President Donald Trump’s term, an Israeli cabinet minister said on Wednesday.

Bangladesh, anyone?