Should Pakistan look beyond Mohammad Abbas and Naseem Shah

[Babar_Azam_fan]

Abbas is on point with his line and length, hence why he’s economical. But with that pace he isn’t going to trouble even U-23 team I reckon.

Naseem(exact opposite of Abbas) has pace but can’t bowl a consistent line and length, and is very inexperienced. Doesn’t know how to set up a batsman

With Hassan Ali back, Shaheen Afridi and Faheem Ashraf(4th pacer), I think Pakistan should move on. May be have Waqas Maqsood as a temporary solution. Have Abbas in the squad and release Naseem to play more 4 day games

For South Africa series

#08 Hassan Ali
#09 Yasir Shah/ Nauman Ali
#10 Shaheen Afridi
#11 Waqas Maqsood (stop gap)


Back up pacers
Mohammad Abbas
Faheem Ashraf

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

Also Pakistan should make Mohammad Hasnain play more 4 day games.

He seems to have improved over the past year. Better make him play more 4 day cricket. He always will have the advantage of his height unlike Abbas and Naseem

 

[hur rizvi]

Hasan Ali should be back against SA.

I am willing to give Abbas some more time for the task he performs

 

[hitthestump]

Move on from Abbas? To who? Pakistan just need to accept that we're kinda mediocre unfortunately as there's nowhere else to go here.

The best thing we can do is play a economical bowler like Abbas so that Shaheen and maybe Yasir can go hard at the other end.

 

[hur rizvi]

Move on from Abbas? To who? Pakistan just need to accept that we're kinda mediocre unfortunately as there's nowhere else to go here.

The best thing we can do is play a economical bowler like Abbas so that Shaheen and maybe Yasir can go hard at the other end.

Specially on Pakistani pitches Abbas with reverse swing and wicket to wicket lines is very handy

I think Rizwan should stand up to Abbas more often

 

[omairsiddiqui]

The first day of the Test match is not even over and we're ready to move on from a guy who averages 22. Brilliant. The only current Test quick that averages better than him is Pat Cummins.

 

[ChTab]

Abbas is okay, at least he keeps the pressure with his line & length. So far he's extremely unlucky to not pick a wicket vs NZ. But we should definitely move on from Naseem, he needs to go back to domestic.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Nassem out.
Abbas is better than anyone you have.

 

[Arsal_AK]

What is wrong with people? It's Day one and we are moving on from a guy averaging 21.

Naseem after the first 3 overs has bowled really well too. Two chances have gone down (one half chance to be fair) already of his bowling. He can only do so much.

Watch the game, NZ are here to play as well and are playing at home. They aren't going to roll over easily.


Hassan Ali is playing in QeA trophy which is missing the top 30 odd cricketers in the country. Think about it. First thing first, he should get back to full fitness and then we can think of getting him in the team.

And what happens when Hassan doesn't perform in 2 matches as well. Move on again?

 

[Cric_lover4487]

What is wrong with people? It's Day one and we are moving on from a guy averaging 21.

Naseem after the first 3 overs has bowled really well too. Two chances have gone down (one half chance to be fair) already of his bowling. He can only do so much.

Watch the game, NZ are here to play as well and are playing at home. They aren't going to roll over easily.


Hassan Ali is playing in QeA trophy which is missing the top 30 odd cricketers in the country. Think about it. First thing first, he should get back to full fitness and then we can think of getting him in the team.

And what happens when Hassan doesn't perform in 2 matches as well. Move on again?

Do you believe Hasan Ali is a test material? Where is Junaid Khan these days? I am his Indian fan. I like Shaheen Afridi but he lacks pace. He is bowling in 130s and he is only like 19. I wish he become quicker. He will become deadly.

 

[Suleiman]

Shaheen Shah is the only international standard pacer in the entire country.... amazing.

 

[Cric_lover4487]

Abbas is okay, at least he keeps the pressure with his line & length. So far he's extremely unlucky to not pick a wicket vs NZ. But we should definitely move on from Naseem, he needs to go back to domestic.

Disappointing to see Pakistan going with strike bowler whose strength is line and length. I expect more from Pakistan. Even Faheem is quicker than him and he is a bowling allrounder.

 

[Energy]

Hasan Ali should be back against SA.

I am willing to give Abbas some more time for the task he performs

It's not really any task he's performing. A good bowler will take wickets and bowl quick and tight lines. Formalizing the middle grounds ie (economy, speed) is what is making our bowling weak. As the economical grandfather cannot get wickets and neither can the aggressive child.

As a coach and selector, Misbah has got everything wrong. We were given the excuse after the Australia thrashing that this attack is new and will learn. But seems like it's regressed or stayed constantly poor. So what's the excuse this time?

 

[AamirWarraich]

Naseem needs at least a season of first class cricket to improve. Abbas has lost 2 yards of pace. I remember he bowled up to 138-140kph a few times when he first arrived in 2016-17. He bowled some excellent deliveries today but was averaging 124-128 kph.

He should be bowling closer to 135kph if he wants to actually take wickets. Economy rate in Tests is not important. Dale Steyn says he if got hit for 20 runs but took two wicket in 2 overs of a Test match,he'd be happy.

This is why Mohammad Aamir was dropped too. A good economy rate is useful in ODIS and T20s. not in Tests. You need wicket takers.

 

[AamirWarraich]

it's a shame that Shaheen Shah is the only international standard bowler we have. He would be performing even better if he had proper support. This Misbah Waqar duo seems to have gotten everything wrong so far. I really hope our new domestic system comes up with a few good players in the next couple of years. Otherwise Pakistan cricket will have gone the way hockey has gone in the country. We will officially become minnows like Zimbabwe and will be behind Bangladesh if this keeps going.

 

[wrongun]

Abbas is on point with his line and length, hence why he’s economical. But with that pace he isn’t going to trouble even U-23 team I reckon.

Naseem(exact opposite of Abbas) has pace but can’t bowl a consistent line and length, and is very inexperienced. Doesn’t know how to set up a batsman

With Hassan Ali back, Shaheen Afridi and Faheem Ashraf(4th pacer), I think Pakistan should move on. May be have Waqas Maqsood as a temporary solution. Have Abbas in the squad and release Naseem to play more 4 day games

For South Africa series

#08 Hassan Ali
#09 Yasir Shah/ Nauman Ali
#10 Shaheen Afridi
#11 Waqas Maqsood (stop gap)


Back up pacers
Mohammad Abbas
Faheem Ashraf

See how this series plays out. If they don't get results then yes, you need to look elsewhere. Hassan Ali is the logical choice to bring in as he has done well in the past, come through some injury and most importantly is bowling in good form. If you need to bring a new player in, at least he also has some experience too.

Not a fan of selecting Waqas Maqsood. Why burden they attack with carrying such a trundler? You'd be better off sticking with Abbas as at least he bowls tight.

Might be worth picking Rauf in the warm up games in SA- Shaheen's class, an in form Ali & then some real pace might work.

But maybe best selection could be Amad Butt- he's got some pace, he's being selected on tours for experience, Give him a shot in the warmups & see if he can earn a spot. He seems to be fit, strong & has decent height & a strong FC record. Can also hold a bat ok to bat at #8 or #9 if required.

 

[Savak]

Tbh the reason why Waqar promotes younger bowlers is to take the pressure end scrutiny of expectations of his shoulders so that he saves his behind after every series under the pretext of "its a young bowling lot, we need to be more patient with them and give them time".

Seeing how he was going along his bowling coaching in that video was enough to prove he does not know how to get the best out of the bowling attack at his disposal. Heck get Mohammad Asif as the bowling coach of this bowling lot and he might end up embarrassing Waqar with better results. Abbas credits his bowling development so far to Mohd Asifs mentoring at Wapda

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Abbas is on point with his line and length, hence why he’s economical. But with that pace he isn’t going to trouble even U-23 team I reckon.

Naseem(exact opposite of Abbas) has pace but can’t bowl a consistent line and length, and is very inexperienced. Doesn’t know how to set up a batsman

With Hassan Ali back, Shaheen Afridi and Faheem Ashraf(4th pacer), I think Pakistan should move on. May be have Waqas Maqsood as a temporary solution. Have Abbas in the squad and release Naseem to play more 4 day games

For South Africa series

#08 Hassan Ali
#09 Yasir Shah/ Nauman Ali
#10 Shaheen Afridi
#11 Waqas Maqsood (stop gap)


Back up pacers
Mohammad Abbas
Faheem Ashraf

With 5 coaching stints with PCB, you would think Waqar should have enough experience to fix it, if he wasn’t able to stop their decline to begin with?

How about we start the replacing process with Waqar before he shoves Musa Khan in the playing squad again?

 

[TeamPak95]

I think Pakistan are gonna persist with Abbas for being able to hold up an end with a good-great economy. Expectations should be kept low pertaining to his wicket-taking capabilities.

Regarding Naseem, I am rooting for him to bag wickets this series (assuming he plays the second test as well), but if his numbers are like what he put up in England then he should be sent back to FC to refine his bowling and develop a consistent line and length. I do believe there is a great bowler in him.

 

[Savak]

I think Pakistan are gonna persist with Abbas for being able to hold up an end with a good-great economy. Expectations should be kept low pertaining to his wicket-taking capabilities.

Regarding Naseem, I am rooting for him to bag wickets this series (assuming he plays the second test as well), but if his numbers are like what he put up in England then he should be sent back to FC to refine his bowling and develop a consistent line and length. I do believe there is a great bowler in him.

Naseems problem is not really about not having a consistent line length, he started his career as a tear away fast bowler and he has now already lost a good 10 km/hr in pace thanks to Waqars overcoaching.

His role is not to bowl long line and length spells but to bowl short sharp express bursts where he tries to take wickets every ball. The line and length stuff is for Abbas and Faheem

 

[ask_analyse_act]

I thought bowling will improve under Waqar but it has gone down from where it was before.

Usually on SENA tours that bowlers do enjoy bowling in green pitches, overcast conditions, breezes etc.

Pakistan look toothless under Waqar , no penetration at all.

 

[Varun]

Wasn't Naseem supposed to be the next great white hope?

Who's the next greenhorn in line now?

 

[Shazzam]

I never saw anything special about Naseem besides the age. So no surprise he’s not doing well here. Abbas should be persisted with till we find another strike bowler besides Shaheen. It is Naseem’s role to be that strike bowler but he is failing to be one. If Abbas can partner with two different strike bowlers we might be on to something.

 

[TeamPak95]

Naseems problem is not really about not having a consistent line length, he started his career as a tear away fast bowler and he has now already lost a good 10 km/hr in pace thanks to Waqars dehati overcoaching.

His role is not to bowl long line and length spells but to bowl short sharp express bursts where he tries to take wickets every ball. The line and length stuff is for Abbas and Faheem

How was Naseem's speed as the day went on? Cuz the thing is, when he started to bowl, he was wayward and was going for runs, but started being more accurate during his second and third spells. I didn't watch all of his bowling, but was he bowling faster when he started to get in the rhythm of bowling more accurately? If he wasn't, then yeah that's something to work on. If he was, then it's a case of him getting his accuracy right (not on the level of Abbas, but good enough), getting used to that bowling rhythm, and then being able to provide those sharp express bursts.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Did you actually even watch the first day's play today?

Naseem should have had a wicket had the catch of Nicholls been taken when he was on 5. And Abbas bowled beautifully. The fact that he doesn't have a wicket is an injustice. And for you to say that Pakistan should just bring in more new pacers shows to me, how little you know about cricket. Because new guys always take time to adjust to the international level. Their domestic performances don't automatically translate to similar performances in test cricket.

At most, Pakistan can bring in Hasan Ali to give the attack some more depth. But Pakistan's disappointing performance today is not down to the lack of hardwork by the bowlers, who bowled very well today. It is down to dropped catches and blunders like not reviewing the Williamson lbw at the end of the day. There is no reason why Williamson should still be out there.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Getting tired of seeing knee-jerk posts like these that are obviously made by people who read the scorecard rather than bothering to see the match, and then form their entire opinions of certain players based on those.

 

[Last Monetarist]

This is perhaps Pakistan's weakest attack in living memory, arguably the weakest since the 1960s. We are essentially fielding one bowler, can't expect to take 20 wickets.

The sooner we move on from the likes of Abbas and Naseem, the better.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Tbh the reason why Waqar promotes younger bowlers is to take the pressure end scrutiny of expectations of his shoulders so that he saves his behind after every series under the pretext of "its a young bowling lot, we need to be more patient with them and give them time".

Seeing how he was going along his bowling coaching in that video was enough to prove he does not know how to get the best out of the bowling attack at his disposal. Heck get Mohammad Asif as the bowling coach of this bowling lot and he might end up embarrassing Waqar with better results. Abbas credits his bowling development so far to Mohd Asifs mentoring at Wapda

How many experienced pacers are there in Pakistan who will thrive on the international level?

Guys like Waqas Maqsood will be smashed all over the park in Australia and New Zealand. And we are all perfectly well aware of the level Sohail Khan is on. The fact that he is even in the squad shocks me. I sincerely hope he never plays another test match again.

Therefore, its better that Pakistan persist with Naseem. He has already been exposed to the top level at a young age and played in Australia, England and now New Zealand. The lessons he has/will take will only make him a better bowler from here on out. Also think its harsh to judge someone so young based on his performances in those countries. In Pakistan, he already has a 5 wicket haul and a hat trick.

That said, Musa should be nowhere near the Pakistan national team.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This is perhaps Pakistan's weakest attack in living memory, arguably the weakest since the 1960s. We are essentially fielding one bowler, can't expect to take 20 wickets.

The sooner we move on from the likes of Abbas and Naseem, the better.

LOL to whom? Abbas averages 20 in test cricket. He goes wicketless one day and posters here are calling for Pakistan to move on from him. Shows how much cricket y'all actually watch.

 

[hur rizvi]

LOL to whom? Abbas averages 20 in test cricket. He goes wicketless one day and posters here are calling for Pakistan to move on from him. Shows how much cricket y'all actually watch.

Abbas has been pretty ineffective for quite some time now despite his "20 average". We still need to persist with him but his loss of pace is concerning

 

[IAJ]

it's a shame that Shaheen Shah is the only international standard bowler we have. He would be performing even better if he had proper support. This Misbah Waqar duo seems to have gotten everything wrong so far. I really hope our new domestic system comes up with a few good players in the next couple of years. Otherwise Pakistan cricket will have gone the way hockey has gone in the country. We will officially become minnows like Zimbabwe and will be behind Bangladesh if this keeps going.

Misbah will ruin Shaheen completely as he will be burned out. He is playing in every format and that is not ideal at all. Misbah has done this to many bowlers, even when he was captain.

This is the only thing I have against Misbah, he is just focussing on his own results, has no vision and doesn't look to build a team for future.

 

[Savak]

LOL to whom? Abbas averages 20 in test cricket. He goes wicketless one day and posters here are calling for Pakistan to move on from him. Shows how much cricket y'all actually watch.

We cannot afford Zulfiqar Babars with the new ball. People orgasming over Abbas maidens, low economy rate need to focus on the fact that NZ were content to play him out and not give any wickets to him which is a big plus because he is most effective in the first 20 overs of the innings and then becomes useless until the second new ball arrives. Wickets are what wins you games at the end of the day and if they come at a higher economy rate then so be it

 

[Rana]

How about we sack our bowling coach and his staff instead?

 

[JibranAnsari]

our lack of patience will never let any young cricketer settle. Give naseem shah some time to learn , he has good ingredients and will come good in time.

Give him 5 more test matches and do not forget he already has 1five fer at test level.

 

[Geil]

I think Pakistan are handcuffed and have no options but to play Abbas till the time they could build a match winning fast bowler, who to me is Shaheen, the only fast bowler that looks like can win matches for Pak but he didn't get that support today

Pak has absolutely no one who has stats to prove like Abbas has, that he has been successful at international level hence he is persisted with especially at a time where Pak is struggling and have, not much experience in their fast bowling department

If Pak drops Abbas now then that would put lot of pressure on a performing shaheen , I believe if pak can build and develop one more reliable fast bowler at international level they have no choice and are hancuffed to use Abbas

Though the only place where they could try another fast bowler is in the place of Naseem but then again naseem has a hat trick under his belt so u cannot drop him suddenly unless u have a fast bowler maybe like a hasan ali who is a proven performer at international level

One or two series for naseem and if he does not improve than I think Pak can try a new fast bowler

 

[shah_1]

LOL to whom? Abbas averages 20 in test cricket. He goes wicketless one day and posters here are calling for Pakistan to move on from him. Shows how much cricket y'all actually watch.

averages 20 )




Abbas is garbage but he will play because we have no options

 

[RyanRyan10]

Day 1 of the tour and we have already seen threads of fans wanting Abbas/Naseem/Yasir dropped

If Faheem fails with bat, there will be threads against him

Among batsmen, barring Masood & Rizwan, no one seems safe. Though, I won't be surprised if fans have a go at Masood for his career average.

Only Rizwan & Shaheen look safe at the moment.

 

[Nado_]

Lol at these reactions which are most likely due to only reading score cards and not actually viewing the match . Enough said.

 

[Xoib]

Naseem after poor first spell was quite decent created chances which fielders shelled. Probable 2nd best bowler for the last 2 sessions.

BUT

This is not how he should bowl and will not be a success at Test level with this approach. Naseem when he came year ago bowled 140-145 he was aggressive bowling bouncers or used his skiddy pace to target stumps and he bowled like that till the Bangladesh series however something changed since England tour his run up shortened pace went down and he is being made to bowl top off stump L&L.
Please get him away from this coaching staff he is not hit the top of off type pacer that will never be his strongest suit Waqar off all people should know this.

 

[taqi]

Naseem Shah home moon should be over now. With new chief selector he is surely being dropped for some top performer from QEA trophy.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

averages 20 )

View attachment 105599


Abbas is garbage but he will play because we have no options

Instead of going through this painstaking activity you could have just saved yourself some time by looking at his actual test average which can be viewed when you open his Cricinfo profile.

Spoiler alert: its 21.7

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

We cannot afford Zulfiqar Babars with the new ball. People orgasming over Abbas maidens, low economy rate need to focus on the fact that NZ were content to play him out and not give any wickets to him which is a big plus because he is most effective in the first 20 overs of the innings and then becomes useless until the second new ball arrives. Wickets are what wins you games at the end of the day and if they come at a higher economy rate then so be it

I look forward to you eating your words when Abbas picks up some wickets and silences the army of armchair critics here on PP. People who turn against a player a one bad series.

Abbas is quality and nothing can change that. When someone is good they are good. Form is temporary, class is permanent. And to compare Abbas to Zulfiqar Babar is frankly an insult to a player of his caliber, who has earned his spot after years of toiling in domestic cricket and putting in consistent performances.

I would much rather take the Fawad Alams and Mohammad Abbas's of Pakistan cricket than some imaginary child prodigy posters here are fantasizing about, who doesn't even exist.

 

[shah_1]

Instead of going through this painstaking activity you could have just saved yourself some time by looking at his actual test average which can be viewed when you open his Cricinfo profile.

Spoiler alert: its 21.7

) what a poor response. Expected when you can't defend a SR of 103, avg of 39.90 and 21 wickets in last 12 matches

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Abbas is our best test bowler so no

And naseem has been invested in to learn on the job
Hopefully after losing his mum and going for runs constantly for a few years he becomes a better bowler

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Day 1 of the tour and we have already seen threads of fans wanting Abbas/Naseem/Yasir dropped

If Faheem fails with bat, there will be threads against him

Among batsmen, barring Masood & Rizwan, no one seems safe. Though, I won't be surprised if fans have a go at Masood for his career average.

Only Rizwan & Shaheen look safe at the moment.

Welcome to the world of Pakistani cricket fans where knee-jerk reactions abound.

I can assure you many of these people didn't even get up at 3am to see the match and are basing opinions off scorecards.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Naseem Shah is young and needs to be persisted with.

Abbas is too slow to continue to trouble international batsmen. His slow line length seam bowling has been found out and hence he has fallen off in last 10 to 12 tests. Ofcourse like a few posters here team management will keep persisting with him. He will give a 50 for 1 in 30 overs kind of performances.

 

[shah_1]

If Abbas is quality then Imam ul haq is brain Lara

His fans need to accept reality that he has become garbage since shoulder injury. He was good, bowled around 128-132 kph, now he is 5 to 7 kph slower hence lost all potency

 

[shah_1]

12 matches stats is a knee jerk reaction???

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

) what a poor response. Expected when you can't defend a SR of 103, avg of 39.90 and 21 wickets in last 12 matches

You got a response worthy of the comment you made.

By selectively using stats like this I could make any bowler in the world look like the worst bowler in the world. Because guess what? Every player goes through bad patches.

For you to use this as some kind of grand gotcha' moment is frankly an insult the intelligence of anyone who bothers to see your post.

 

[wakkkLDN]

I don't think Abbas is the issue, I agree with the general sentiment that he has been unlucky.

On the other hand Naseem Shah is not good enough for test cricket at this stage, he needs more first class overs under his belt.

Having said that I cant of the top of my head think of any other young up and coming bowler to select in his place. Waqas Maqsood or even Mir Hamza could be temporary holding options.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Abbas has been pretty ineffective for quite some time now despite his "20 average". We still need to persist with him but his loss of pace is concerning

The two genuinely bad series that Abbas has had (South Africa and Australia) were series in which he was coming off an injury. But anyone who has seen Abbas bowl in England or today knows he still bowls excellently. Sometimes you are just unlucky and wickets don't come your way, but he is still a highly skilled operator and you need a workhorse pacer like him who is accurate, can bowl long spells and can be economical even when he is not picking up wickets.

As for his pace, he has never been fast.

 

[abdulrafay33]

our lack of patience will never let any young cricketer settle. Give naseem shah some time to learn , he has good ingredients and will come good in time.

Give him 5 more test matches and do not forget he already has 1five fer at test level.

Yeah fifer against a toothless Sri Lankan batting line up ?

 

[chacha kashmiri]

If Abbas is quality then Imam ul haq is brain Lara

His fans need to accept reality that he has become garbage since shoulder injury. He was good, bowled around 128-132 kph, now he is 5 to 7 kph slower hence lost all potency

It's between him and hasan ali for that first experienced bowler position
With recent form maybe hasan ali should have been picked

 

[shah_1]

If Abbas is quality then Imam ul haq is brain Lara

His fans need to accept reality that he has become garbage since shoulder injury. He was good, bowled around 128-132 kph, now he is 5 to 7 kph slower hence lost all potency

People need to again watch Abbas in 2018 in England then compare that with recent England series. He has lost pace and zip. His fan are in denial.

He used to be a quality bowler

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If Abbas is quality then Imam ul haq is brain Lara

His fans need to accept reality that he has become garbage since shoulder injury. He was good, bowled around 128-132 kph, now he is 5 to 7 kph slower hence lost all potency

Ahan. So what is the alternative to a guy who ran riot in England, destroyed oppositions in UAE, picked up wickets in West Indies, throw him out? And who will you replace him with? I bet there's a young tear-away child prodigy quick just waiting in the wings to replace him. Oh wait...there's not. Because there is no one. Because if Pakistan's domestic structure was really filled with all this talent we keep hearing about we wouldn't be No.7

 

[Shazzam]

Pakistan should bring back Junaid Khan in place of Naseem Shah.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't think Abbas is the issue, I agree with the general sentiment that he has been unlucky.

On the other hand Naseem Shah is not good enough for test cricket at this stage, he needs more first class overs under his belt.

Having said that I cant of the top of my head think of any other young up and coming bowler to select in his place. Waqas Maqsood or even Mir Hamza could be temporary holding options.

Mir Hamza failed to impress me in the one test he played. And he has since faded away even on the domestic level. Although I am not aware of his performances in this season.

I think Hasan Ali seems like the best option for the extra pacer. His fitness seems to be back and he is picking up lots of wickets in domestic. I would prefer him over Naseem in the starting eleven.

 

[Muddaser]

No wonder we are rock bottom.

How can a team perform if it never settles?

Most of our fans have NO patience. Want a player out after a single day of cricket. Unbelievable. Let these guys play 20 games then we will judge.

Naseem will come good.

 

[shah_1]

Ahan. So what is the alternative to a guy who ran riot in England, destroyed oppositions in UAE, picked up wickets in West Indies, throw him out? And who will you replace him with? I bet there's a young tear-away child prodigy quick just waiting in the wings to replace him. Oh wait...there's not. Because there is no one. Because if Pakistan's domestic structure was really filled with all this talent we keep hearing about we wouldn't be No.7

Read my first reply to you, I also wrote

Abbas is garbage but he will play because we have no options

 

[Hasan123]

Abbas is fine. The issue is Naseem "I see the fear in their eyes" Shah.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

The two genuinely bad series that Abbas has had (South Africa and Australia) were series in which he was coming off an injury. But anyone who has seen Abbas bowl in England or today knows he still bowls excellently. Sometimes you are just unlucky and wickets don't come your way, but he is still a highly skilled operator and you need a workhorse pacer like him who is accurate, can bowl long spells and can be economical even when he is not picking up wickets.

As for his pace, he has never been fast.

He out performed mir hamza in division 2 this year of county cricket too
So that's his immediate completion taken care of
He's always sought after in county cricket and not just for the t20s

 

[Energy]

The grandfather and toddler combination that we have at the moment is a unique one and we'll need to stick with going forward. One can't bowl with pace, other can't bowl to a line. The common denominator is that both can't take wickets.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Read my first reply to you, I also wrote

Love hearing posters like you criticize players based on knee-jerk reactions to matches that haven't even been completed. And then offer no alternatives or solutions. Oh wait, I don't.

 

[shah_1]

Love hearing posters like you criticize players based on knee-jerk reactions to matches that haven't even been completed. And then offer no alternatives or solutions. Oh wait, I don't.

I have been watching Abbas since his debut, my opinion on him is not based on this match alone. It is not a knee jerk reaction

My statement makes perfect sense, I'm being realistic. He is garbage that doesn't mean we better options. It is a sad reality of a bottom ranked team.

 

[Bewal Express]

When you put people in you want your leader to take wickets but Batsman like Williamson can't be bored out. His bowling slower and slower and looks harmless on a green top. Naseem is struggling but I am not giving up yet.

 

[Markhor]

Look Pakistan contrary to popular belief have overpromised and underdelivered in pace bowling in the last 10 years. Waqar was the last guy to reach 200 Test wickets. So many have come and gone since.

Abbas is the only proven performer with any real experience in this raw Test seam attack. He's one of the few Pakistani seamers who doesn't spray the new ball around. However he's limited in pace (seemingly down on pace since his shoulder injury in 18/19) and offers little wicket-taking threat with the old ball. So the question is how best to utilise him ?

You need two strike bowlers who can capitalise on the pressure Abbas creates. Shaheen is developing into one but Faheem and Naseem aren't the answer. One's not international standard, the other's nowhere near ready for Test cricket.

 

[Arsal_AK]

Abbas is fine. The issue is Naseem "I see the fear in their eyes" Shah.

How? Abbas bowlwd a channel and beat the bat on occasions but never more than that. He was economical though. Naseem was a good 13ks faster than Abbas you will expect Abbas to to have more control.

Naseem was all over the place at the start. Then after 3 overs, he bowled pretty much the same as others, a near consistent channel and he too beat th bat many times, infact more than Abbas as the ball got older. Not to mention he should have had a wicket. It was as easy a catch as you can get. He also got Williamson to knick behind. Tough chance but it was shelled as well. Now when you drop two guys who has 200 as their last innings, you are in trouble and that is exactly what happened.

 

[Hasan123]

How? Abbas bowlwd a channel and beat the bat on occasions but never more than that. He was economical though. Naseem was a good 13ks faster than Abbas you will expect Abbas to to have more control.

Naseem was all over the place at the start. Then after 3 overs, he bowled pretty much the same as others, a near consistent channel and he too beat th bat many times, infact more than Abbas as the ball got older. Not to mention he should have had a wicket. It was as easy a catch as you can get. He also got Williamson to knick behind. Tough chance but it was shelled as well. Now when you drop two guys who has 200 as their last innings, you are in trouble and that is exactly what happened.

Abbas know how to use the new ball and can keep things tight. Naseem is wayward and doesn't know how to set batters up. He is not ready for test match cricket if I am being honest.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Yeah fifer against a toothless Sri Lankan batting line up ?

yah the toothless batting lineup is 280/4 at centurian today.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Did you actually even watch the first day's play today?

Naseem should have had a wicket had the catch of Nicholls been taken when he was on 5. And Abbas bowled beautifully. The fact that he doesn't have a wicket is an injustice. And for you to say that Pakistan should just bring in more new pacers shows to me, how little you know about cricket. Because new guys always take time to adjust to the international level. Their domestic performances don't automatically translate to similar performances in test cricket.

At most, Pakistan can bring in Hasan Ali to give the attack some more depth. But Pakistan's disappointing performance today is not down to the lack of hardwork by the bowlers, who bowled very well today. It is down to dropped catches and blunders like not reviewing the Williamson lbw at the end of the day. There is no reason why Williamson should still be out there.

Well said. The only thing I agree with on this thread is Naseem needs time in first class. But I absolutely hate that people are writing him off based on performances where he’s clearly still recovering from his injury and has had catches dropped off his bowling.

He will be a force to reckon with in a few years even now.

And our bowling was magnificent today, aside from Yasir Shah - that was Williamson’s second slowest 50 in his entire career!

 

[Titan24]

Regarding Naseem, as I said in the created that fast tracking is being taken to an extreme. Naseem was drafted in after half a season of FC cricket. He has the potential to be a good pacer in the long run and keeps on showing glimpses here and there of his potential but, management has been clueless when it comes to selections and handling players.

Regarding Abbas, while his accuracy is impeccable but with his current pace unless the surface has a lot to offer he will have problems.

 

[nextover666666]

Wasn't Naseem supposed to be the next great white hope?

Who's the next greenhorn in line now?

Naseem shah is a fine bowler just needs to be persisted with still very young will come really good with time

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I have been watching Abbas since his debut, my opinion on him is not based on this match alone. It is not a knee jerk reaction

My statement makes perfect sense, I'm being realistic. He is garbage that doesn't mean we better options. It is a sad reality of a bottom ranked team.

You lost me at: "My statement makes perfect sense"

 

[ARK Rafay]

Day 1 of the tour and we have already seen threads of fans wanting Abbas/Naseem/Yasir dropped

If Faheem fails with bat, there will be threads against him

Among batsmen, barring Masood & Rizwan, no one seems safe. Though, I won't be surprised if fans have a go at Masood for his career average.

Only Rizwan & Shaheen look safe at the moment.

Fans will demand to drop Rizwan and Shaheen too if they had a bad run of form.

 

[shah_1]

You lost me at: "My statement makes perfect sense"

I would love to be proven wrong in this series, don't wish cricketers to fail to prove my point. I just don't see it happening. Lets wait and watch.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Well said. The only thing I agree with on this thread is Naseem needs time in first class. But I absolutely hate that people are writing him off based on performances where he’s clearly still recovering from his injury and has had catches dropped off his bowling.

He will be a force to reckon with in a few years even now.

And our bowling was magnificent today, aside from Yasir Shah - that was Williamson’s second slowest 50 in his entire career!

There's no doubt that he needs to play more FC cricket but I mean cut the guy some slack. He is very young and already has a hat trick and a five wicket in 7 test matches. And let's not forget that he has played most of his test matches in testing foreign conditions. I find it hard to believe how a kid with his pace and energy won't get better from here on out if he can manage the injuries.

Absolutely. And you have to give some credit to Taylor and Williamson as well, with the way they stuck in there. They are top-quality batsmen playing in conditions most suitable to them. And conditions in which they haven't lost a single test match in 3 years! I mean that's no ordinary feat.

Even Yasir was not bad during the early part of the day. But much more was required from him in the final session and he failed to step up. I hope he can be effective once the pitch wears out. The fact that the Kiwis played Santner tells me it might be somewhat conductive for spin later on, and the commies were alluding to that too.

 

[asadee]

Abbas has been a major disappointment. After so much experience and having ideal conditions suited to your bowling you go wicketless as an opening bowler. Not acceptable..needs to be dropped after this series

 

[Ahmed216]

If Naseem is that good he must prove it first at domestic level. This is simply not the platform to learn ur art. Even someone like shahnawaz dhani in domestic knows how to set up a batsman better than naseem.
Abbas's pace is too slow these days to cause any trouble to good batsmen and i dont see any reason why he can't be replaced ny Hassan ali.
Shaheen is good with new ball and hassan with old ball is probably the only pacer in Pak who can reverse it so they can form a good combination

 

[Nasty Naz]

This massive overreaction of Naseem is really unwarranted. He bowled really well after the first spell. He is also very early into his career and is facing top teams in Australia/NZ/England at such a young age and in their own conditions. It's foolish to expect him to run through lineups.

Let's maybe also give some credit to NZ who batted really well and smart. Pakistani bowlers were bowling really good line & length and there were a lot of misses that easily could have edged. The game is also likely wildly different if Pakistan held onto the catches.

However, they do need more options for Test because I am not sure who the 4th bowler if Shaheen/Naseem/Abbas can't play. They need to get guys like Hasnain/Rauf/Musa etc a lot of games in FC.

 

[Kroll]

Abbas is washed up and PCT isn't a laboratory for Naseem to learn the ropes.