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Should Pakistan strike against terrorists inside Afghanistan?

KingKhanWC

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Is the only way to stop terrorist attacks in Pakistan is for PAF to strike targets within Afghanistan?

So far Pakistan have only hit targets along the border.
 
Am not sure because collateral damage is inevitable and inhumane, but perhaps the pak army could stabilise the country in a way which the US did not intend to when they invaded the country. We need to find a balance so it's tricky, what do you guys think [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]
 
It depends which other nations are involved from the sidelines. If it was just a case of Pakistan and Afghanistan then you could probably fix it through either diplomatic or military means, but obviously there are other players involved in Afghanistan in the same way there are so many vested powers involved in Syria. Very tricky situation and not one that is easy to provide a black and white answer.
 
Am not sure because collateral damage is inevitable and inhumane, but perhaps the pak army could stabilise the country in a way which the US did not intend to when they invaded the country. We need to find a balance so it's tricky, what do you guys think [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]

911 happened, US decided to bomb the hell out of Afghanistan, invaded with ground troops. Over 40 nations were involved in this invasion and occupation. This because of ONE incident and OBL(according to the official story) wasn't even in the country.

Now Pakistan has suffered as a result of this invasion. There have been thousands of terrorist attacks in Pakistan and these wont stop until the architects of the attacks are taken out. If the US can do it , why not Pakistan?

There is always a chance of innocent people being killed even in targeted strikes but Pakistan isn't as mentally disturbed or isn't a terrorist state like the US so will not just bomb indiscriminately.
 
911 happened, US decided to bomb the hell out of Afghanistan, invaded with ground troops. Over 40 nations were involved in this invasion and occupation. This because of ONE incident and OBL(according to the official story) wasn't even in the country.

Now Pakistan has suffered as a result of this invasion. There have been thousands of terrorist attacks in Pakistan and these wont stop until the architects of the attacks are taken out. If the US can do it , why not Pakistan?

There is always a chance of innocent people being killed even in targeted strikes but Pakistan isn't as mentally disturbed or isn't a terrorist state like the US so will not just bomb indiscriminately.

Go after the tajik power base... till they are there, this will continue.

Pashtuns are mere pawns.
 
911 happened, US decided to bomb the hell out of Afghanistan, invaded with ground troops. Over 40 nations were involved in this invasion and occupation. This because of ONE incident and OBL(according to the official story) wasn't even in the country.

Now Pakistan has suffered as a result of this invasion. There have been thousands of terrorist attacks in Pakistan and these wont stop until the architects of the attacks are taken out. If the US can do it , why not Pakistan?

There is always a chance of innocent people being killed even in targeted strikes but Pakistan isn't as mentally disturbed or isn't a terrorist state like the US so will not just bomb indiscriminately.

What would you say is the definite motive behind these bombings in Pakistan?
 
If Pakistan had not played double role like appearing on the surface to be against terrorist but behind closed door the biggest ally of these terrorist groups we might had not seen all these attacks in Pakistan. Even today the main Taliban leadership is in Pakistan. Bin Laden killed in Pakistan. Did Afghanistan hide Bin Laden next to Pakistan military base in Abbottabad? Mullah Umar the founder of Taliban died in Pakistan and ISI and the Pakistani army hid the his death for 2 years not to destabilize and demoralize them. The next leader was killed in Pakistan as well by US drone and the current one is in Pakistan as well. Reports saying and it's most likely that Al Qaida current leader al zawahiri is in Pakistan as well.

So who are you trying to fool? Hehe wants to bomb terrorist hideout in Afghanistan, lol.
 
What would you say is the definite motive behind these bombings in Pakistan?

We have to start with a timeline, when did bombings start to take place? Before the invasion of Afghanistan there were no suicide bombings in Pakistan. I think there was one in Pakistan's history but not related to this. Secondly do people really believe the 'allied' forces invaded Afghanistan, which is one of the poorest countries in the world, which has no real army, no real weapons because it was a threat to the world? Of course not, Afghanistan shouldn't have been invaded in the first place, even if you go by International law as the Taliban agreed to hand over OBL once evidence was provided to them by the US of his involvement. But of course it wasn't about capturing OBL and Al-Qaeda but to occupy Afghanistan in order to gain control of the region. Iran, Russia were targets in this operation manifesto but the real target was always Pakistan.

Pakistan being a nuclear weapons state, with a big army and a close ally in China made it impossible for it to be invaded , let alone being occupied. Pakistan is seen as threat to Zionism mainly because it has what is known as the 'Islamic bomb'. Not that Pakistan has any ideas of using it's nuclear arsenal but the paranoia of the Zionists is very high at the best of times. They will do everything to ensure their agenda, namely the Zionist (not Jewish) state of Israel sets out to the fulfil the messianic agenda. Pakistan is not like Iraq or Libya so the battle plan for them is a long one, which is why there are permanent bases in Afghanistan built by the Americans. It's a bit like Chinese torture, slow and long death will eventually turn Pakistan into a mess like Libya, Iraq, Syria then it's weapons arsenal can be stopped from growing and controlled by installing a puppet army and government regime.
 
Why can't we resolve anything without bloodshed? Am against the US occupation of Afghanistan and any invasion in general. I think we should only prepare for war in self defence like a World War like scenario, if pak choose to invade afg due to various individual incidents then they'd be no different to the US, there's nothing left of afg as it is....what are pak going to get out of killing a couple of thugs at the expense of dead babies and women? Pak often complain about the same casualties due to the battle between US/Afg, all of a sudden life mustn't lose value.

In order to ensure the rehabilitation of Afghanistan, the US and Nato forces need to leave first and foremost; only then can we ensure its fruition in the long term and prevent pak from facing any troubles from across the border
 
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The same way western intervention fuels extremism, any form of invasion will have a counter attacking effect
 
We have to start with a timeline, when did bombings start to take place? Before the invasion of Afghanistan there were no suicide bombings in Pakistan. I think there was one in Pakistan's history but not related to this. Secondly do people really believe the 'allied' forces invaded Afghanistan, which is one of the poorest countries in the world, which has no real army, no real weapons because it was a threat to the world? Of course not, Afghanistan shouldn't have been invaded in the first place, even if you go by International law as the Taliban agreed to hand over OBL once evidence was provided to them by the US of his involvement. But of course it wasn't about capturing OBL and Al-Qaeda but to occupy Afghanistan in order to gain control of the region. Iran, Russia were targets in this operation manifesto but the real target was always Pakistan.

Pakistan being a nuclear weapons state, with a big army and a close ally in China made it impossible for it to be invaded , let alone being occupied. Pakistan is seen as threat to Zionism mainly because it has what is known as the 'Islamic bomb'. Not that Pakistan has any ideas of using it's nuclear arsenal but the paranoia of the Zionists is very high at the best of times. They will do everything to ensure their agenda, namely the Zionist (not Jewish) state of Israel sets out to the fulfil the messianic agenda. Pakistan is not like Iraq or Libya so the battle plan for them is a long one, which is why there are permanent bases in Afghanistan built by the Americans. It's a bit like Chinese torture, slow and long death will eventually turn Pakistan into a mess like Libya, Iraq, Syria then it's weapons arsenal can be stopped from growing and controlled by installing a puppet army and government regime.

Great post, wonderful insight as usual; I agree with you and have the correct idea although not as much depth behind it as you but it just goes to show that it doesn't take a genius to work out that the US need to leave Afg, they are the root of all evil in addition to the western intervention but they won't be leaving any time soon due to their ulterior motives as you say.
 
The same way western intervention fuels extremism, any form of invasion will have a counter attacking effect

This doesn't have to be the case. Keep in mind, the western forces always used divide & rule as a strategy as their aim was to destroy the country. They did this in Afghanistan by becoming partners with the Northern Alliance and in Iraq by alienating the Sunni's by installing a Shia government. Pakistan will not be attacking to make any changes to the country apart from sending the terrorists to their graves.
 
Great post, wonderful insight as usual; I agree with you and have the correct idea although not as much depth behind it as you but it just goes to show that it doesn't take a genius to work out that the US need to leave Afg, they are the root of all evil in addition to the western intervention but they won't be leaving any time soon due to their ulterior motives as you say.

The only they will leave now is if the Afghan Taliban decimates the government, the American public don't have the stomach to back another ground invasion.
 
this was always the risk with a strategy of force over negotiations - blowback a few years later. we've seen it over twenty years on the international scene, the attacks this week can't be a surprise.

now we are where we are, its very difficult to know how best to proceed. personally id be inclined to leave it in the army's hands, they know far more about the state of play than anyone else with access only to press reports. from a long term point of view though, negotiations I think will be the only lasting solution - not with the worst perpetrators, but with the least bad ones who are closer to disenfranchised as opposed to sociopathic.

I expect the violence will only escalate from here.
 
The more crucial issue is that of CPEC. It was expected that such actions will rise because of the geopolitical interests of some countries in the region. Qamar Bajwa should be more pro active in countering it, but I don't think Afghanistan is the real problem : you can see it's a temporary issue and with some political will you can bridge both nations (through the religious and even ethnic ties - Pashtuns), but there are other countries which are counter intuitive to the well being of Pakistan, namely the US and India, and explicit policies should be designated that way.
 
The more crucial issue is that of CPEC. It was expected that such actions will rise because of the geopolitical interests of some countries in the region. Qamar Bajwa should be more pro active in countering it, but I don't think Afghanistan is the real problem : you can see it's a temporary issue and with some political will you can bridge both nations (through the religious and even ethnic ties - Pashtuns), but there are other countries which are counter intuitive to the well being of Pakistan, namely the US and India, and explicit policies should be designated that way.

Who are the most vehemently and rabid anti Pakistanis and actively colluding with enemy countries?..... the tajiks. It's high time they are singled out and taken to task on a grand scale. That will also take care of Indian influence.
 
No doubt military action has to be taken against Afghanistan. Pak should do all it can to avoid killing innocent Afghans at the same time not doing anything as the above poster suggest is not an option either. Pak should openly support separatist movements in India and the Afghan Taliban in Afghanistan to counter RAW and the Pakistan Taliban that those warlords in Afghanistan have always supported. Telling you guy's again that Zaid Hamid's analysis was correct when he warned of the bloodshed that would follow if Raheel Sharif quit before finishing the job. Pak should put IoK on fire now by supporting the insurgency there.
 
I don't think so. Deal with the terrorists inside Pakistan and reduce the "defense" budget. Pakistan should have friendly relations with Afghanistan and we should help them by ceasing support for Haqqani network. That will be a lot less expensive and will actually reduce terrorism.
 
Its definitely time for the Pakistan Armed Forces to strategically strike the safe sanctuaries of these terrorists in Afghanistan.
 
No Pakistan shouldn't. Not yet at least.

There are too many illeagal Afghan refugees in Pakistan who can be used by terrorists for revenge attacks. First see to it that they are sent home.

Try to seal the border with Afg. I know the terrain is tough and blah blah but it has to be done somehow.

After doing the above, Pakistan should strike specific areas only in collaboration with Afghanistan govt. even then be ready for revenge attacks from terrorists because these are Afghans we are talking about and they are relentless.
 
Well step one has been taken. Pak Afghan border is now completely shut. No Trade or people to cross until further notice as per ISPR. Also according to ISPR, Afghan officials were summoned to the GHQ and given a list of 76 terrorists to be handed over to Pakistan immediately. Finally Bajwa has woken up.
 
No I highly disagree with this.... We shouldn't lose our humanity based on the actions of a few mindless individuals from a given sect of society. It would make us no different than folks like Modi and Trump.....

We isolate the cause in Afghanistan and target them based on intelligence, something that rational folks would do in any given situation. I will never advocate killing innocents no matter what !!

Quite frankly bro, if someone is coming into our home and bombing us in broad daylight then I sincerely believe that (a) Either we are incompetent to defend ourselves or (b) we have traitors among us. In both cases the fault lies within us and to kill innocents (even 1 collateral damage) based on our own shortcomings is inhumane to the core.

I know there are many problems with Afghanistan as a country and terrorists operate from there without fear but to kill and aerial bomb them collectively with civilians in the name of collateral damage should never be an option.

Trust me I have no love for Afghanis in general, as a matter of fact I keep them in the same bracket as TTP/INDIAN GOVT/BDESHI FANATICS etc but I cannot advocate and approve of mass murder - Allah ko bhi kisi din munh dikhana hay..........
 
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I am not too sure if Pakistan can think of doing this after harboring Afgan Taliban on both sides of the border. Why make innocent Afgans pay for something your own intelligence agency shares the blame for?
 
So let me get this straight? You want to engage in war with Afghanistan? Pretty sure if you bomb another country it's considered an act of war...
 
If Pakistan had not played double role like appearing on the surface to be against terrorist but behind closed door the biggest ally of these terrorist groups we might had not seen all these attacks in Pakistan. Even today the main Taliban leadership is in Pakistan. Bin Laden killed in Pakistan. Did Afghanistan hide Bin Laden next to Pakistan military base in Abbottabad? Mullah Umar the founder of Taliban died in Pakistan and ISI and the Pakistani army hid the his death for 2 years not to destabilize and demoralize them. The next leader was killed in Pakistan as well by US drone and the current one is in Pakistan as well. Reports saying and it's most likely that Al Qaida current leader al zawahiri is in Pakistan as well.

So who are you trying to fool? Hehe wants to bomb terrorist hideout in Afghanistan, lol.
Surprised that no one wants to answer your on the face questions. .can't blame anyone..human mentality is so. .passing the blame on foriegn powers for all the happenings..
 
How will you differentiate between Innocent and the terrorists? Are you saying they have their own separate camps somewhere without children and people??
 
No Pakistan shouldn't. Not yet at least.

There are too many illeagal Afghan refugees in Pakistan who can be used by terrorists for revenge attacks. First see to it that they are sent home.

Try to seal the border with Afg. I know the terrain is tough and blah blah but it has to be done somehow.

After doing the above, Pakistan should strike specific areas only in collaboration with Afghanistan govt. even then be ready for revenge attacks from terrorists because these are Afghans we are talking about and they are relentless.

What if Afghhanistan,India ask for the same?
 
Why can't we resolve anything without bloodshed? Am against the US occupation of Afghanistan and any invasion in general. I think we should only prepare for war in self defence like a World War like scenario, if pak choose to invade afg due to various individual incidents then they'd be no different to the US, there's nothing left of afg as it is....what are pak going to get out of killing a couple of thugs at the expense of dead babies and women? Pak often complain about the same casualties due to the battle between US/Afg, all of a sudden life mustn't lose value.

In order to ensure the rehabilitation of Afghanistan, the US and Nato forces need to leave first and foremost; only then can we ensure its fruition in the long term and prevent pak from facing any troubles from across the border

The terrorism is run by Afghan state backed by Indian govt. You tell me what should we do?
 
What if Afghhanistan,India ask for the same?

India would be clever to not engage with Pakistan on our issues with Afghanistan else this could get real dirty. ISI would be asked to reinstate their dirty games I'm sure Indians won't like that.
 
India would be clever to not engage with Pakistan on our issues with Afghanistan else this could get real dirty. ISI would be asked to reinstate their dirty games I'm sure Indians won't like that.

It is dirty already. Pakistan sponsored terror in India is already taking the two countries towards a war, and I am sure that Pakistan is clever enough not to make it any worse irrespective of India's choice on Afgan issue.

Besides, India doesn't treat it as an issue between Afganistan and Pakistan. Terrorism is a regional issue, and Afganistan and India have a totally different opinion on the state sponsoring such groups.
 
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It is dirty already. Pakistan sponsored terror in India is already taking the two countries towards a war, and I am sure that Pakistan is clever enough not to make it any worse irrespective of India's choice on Afgan issue.

Besides, India doesn't treat it as an issue between Afganistan and Pakistan. Terrorism is a regional issue, and Afganistan and India have a totally different opinion on the state sponsoring such groups.
That's quite rich when both countries are equally involved with state sponsored terrorism in Pakistan. Pakistan will have to take aggressive stance on Afghanistan. This cannot keep going on.
 
These are similar to the Indian fantasies of striking inside Pakistan whenever there is an attack on their soil.

Its quid pro quo - both sides have to stop the games. Should Pakistan see that the support it extends to various militant groups operating in Afghanistan and India stop, then you will see a reduction in attacks inside Pakistan.

Up to the army/ISI to decide whether the cost is worth it. Unpopular view I know, because we all like to have our cake and eat it, or think we are innocent angels. But the truth is the truth.

Pointing to US intervention as the sole reason behind attacks in Pakistan increasing is misleading - that is merely the point where the tide started turning. Its not the root cause behind the violence. Years of sponsoring similar attacks in other countries is.
 
That's quite rich when both countries are equally involved with state sponsored terrorism in Pakistan. Pakistan will have to take aggressive stance on Afghanistan. This cannot keep going on.

Don't know about Afganistan, but regarding India, it is more of a counter-narrative that Pakistan has adopted after it failed to act against the terrorist organizations as demanded by India.

Btw, I am not against Pakistan doing strikes at terrorist hideouts at all. But it should be based on cooperation rather than an act of war. I actually want India, Pakistan and Afganistan to sit together, identify the problem areas in the region and bomb the terrorist infrastructure to dust.
 
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India would be clever to not engage with Pakistan on our issues with Afghanistan else this could get real dirty. ISI would be asked to reinstate their dirty games I'm sure Indians won't like that.

What makes u think that game is over from ISI? Also why would India interfere,many of your own politicians would.
 
Surprised that no one wants to answer your on the face questions. .can't blame anyone..human mentality is so. .passing the blame on foriegn powers for all the happenings..

They aren't tough questions at all, merely pro India propaganda, hence why Modi inspired Indians like yourselves love it.
 
These are similar to the Indian fantasies of striking inside Pakistan whenever there is an attack on their soil.

Its quid pro quo - both sides have to stop the games. Should Pakistan see that the support it extends to various militant groups operating in Afghanistan and India stop, then you will see a reduction in attacks inside Pakistan.

Up to the army/ISI to decide whether the cost is worth it. Unpopular view I know, because we all like to have our cake and eat it, or think we are innocent angels. But the truth is the truth.

Pointing to US intervention as the sole reason behind attacks in Pakistan increasing is misleading - that is merely the point where the tide started turning. Its not the root cause behind the violence. Years of sponsoring similar attacks in other countries is.

India and Pakistan are pretty similar level on defense for now,pak and Afghans are not,if Pak wants they can because they are the alpha there.
 
What if Afghhanistan,India ask for the same?

Pakistan wont agree because Pakistan is capable of targetting terrorist hideouts on its own. Afghanistan, on the other hand doesnt look capable of taking any effective action against terrorists in its territory so Pakistan can ask to engage there in a collaborative action.
 
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Pakistan wont agree because Pakistan is capable of targetting terrorist hideouts on its own. Afghanistan, on the other hand doesnt look capable of taking any effective action against terrorists in its territory so Pakistan can ask to engage there in a collaborative action.

Has geopolitics become that simple?
 
India would be clever to not engage with Pakistan on our issues with Afghanistan else this could get real dirty. ISI would be asked to reinstate their dirty games I'm sure Indians won't like that.

Threaten some small island with these.ISI hasnt stopped its dirty games and wont stop either.Pakistan would be wise not to open a two front war.

Good Luck attacking a US backed regime,during Trump era.
 
Afghan officials say Pakistan has launched an assault on an eastern province of the country, following an IS attack on a shrine in southern Pakistan.
Source: AAP
17 Feb 2017 - 8:00 PM UPDATED 43 MINS AGO

An Afghan police official says Pakistan has launched a blistering artillery assault on eastern Afghanistan's Nangarhar province, where a self-declared affiliate of the Islamic State group is based.

Gul Agha Roohani, provincial police chief of Nangarhar, says Pakistan fired several artillery rounds early on Friday into the province's Lalpur district, near the Afghan-Pakistan border.

Related
Security crackdown as Pakistan mourns Sufi shrine victims
Pakistan has launched a nationwide security crackdown, officials said, after a bomb ripped through a crowded Sufi shrine killing at least 70 people including 20 children and wounding hundreds.

There was no immediate comment from Pakistan, where a suicide bombing on Thursday killed 75 people and wounded scores more at a Sufi shrine in southern Sindh province.

The attack was claimed by the Islamic State group.

Pakistan says Thursday's attack and other recent bombings have been masterminded by militants who hide across the border and use sanctuaries in Afghanistan.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/02/17/pakistan-shells-hit-inside-afghanistan
 
Pakistani blood is blood and afghan blood is water? There have been plenty of bombings in Afghanistan and hundreds of people have been in killed by the Taliban and ISIS ( Same people different color turbons). When afghan officials claim Pakistan is involved, everyone here comments that they are making things up and say Pakistan can do no wrong, however when something happens in Pakistan, you want to blame it on Afghanistan and ask for surgical strikes?

Terrorists should not have sanctuaries either in Pakistan or Afghanistan. You cannot pick and chose. If you play with fire then you must accept that you could also get burnt one day.

I have no love for afghan government and I am not here to defend them, however I cannot tolerate words against innocent Afghans and the soldiers who are being killed everyday.

I think Pakistani awam must push its army and government to stop their support for Taliban and kick their leaders from your country. Once that's done, the afghan government will not have any excuse to blame Pakistan. You cannot ask for peace from another country if you are harbouring terrorists yourself.
 
This doesn't have to be the case. Keep in mind, the western forces always used divide & rule as a strategy as their aim was to destroy the country. They did this in Afghanistan by becoming partners with the Northern Alliance and in Iraq by alienating the Sunni's by installing a Shia government. Pakistan will not be attacking to make any changes to the country apart from sending the terrorists to their graves.
Who r the terrorists u want to target? Good taliban? Bad taliban? Whole taliban?
 
The terrorism is run by Afghan state backed by Indian govt. You tell me what should we do?

Pak has done it for decades isn't it? Others have only recently started u r own policy on u r selves. Now u have a problem with that
 
Pakistan: LeT, Afghan Taliban and JeM are not terrorists because they don't carry out attacks in Pakistan.
Afghanistan: TTP and JuA are not terrorists because they don't attack Afghanistan.

What's that they say about do unto others? Now Pakistan has demanded that Afghanistan hand over 76 TTP terrorists. If the Afghan government had an ounce of integrity, they would hand them over, provided Pakistan hands over a similar number of Afghan Taliban terrorists.
 
That's quite rich when both countries are equally involved with state sponsored terrorism in Pakistan. Pakistan will have to take aggressive stance on Afghanistan. This cannot keep going on.
If pak invades afg and try to prop taliban govt again then pak will be toastwith many countries supporting afg like usa, eng, india
 
Pakistani blood is blood and afghan blood is water? There have been plenty of bombings in Afghanistan and hundreds of people have been in killed by the Taliban and ISIS ( Same people different color turbons). When afghan officials claim Pakistan is involved, everyone here comments that they are making things up and say Pakistan can do no wrong, however when something happens in Pakistan, you want to blame it on Afghanistan and ask for surgical strikes?

Terrorists should not have sanctuaries either in Pakistan or Afghanistan. You cannot pick and chose. If you play with fire then you must accept that you could also get burnt one day.

I have no love for afghan government and I am not here to defend them, however I cannot tolerate words against innocent Afghans and the soldiers who are being killed everyday.

I think Pakistani awam must push its army and government to stop their support for Taliban and kick their leaders from your country. Once that's done, the afghan government will not have any excuse to blame Pakistan. You cannot ask for peace from another country if you are harbouring terrorists yourself.

It's being reported in the Times today that Sangin is on the verge of falling back in Taliban hands in Afghanistan. I think it's pretty clear to the rest of the world where the terrorists are based and the country you are living in seems to agree, that is why British soldiers are fighting these terrorists in Afghanistan rather than Pakistan. Come on bro.
 
what's the point of moral argument when you continue to suffer from those low life scumbag operating from Afghanistan soil?

Point is that if you go in the Afghanistan, Afghani, Iranian, indian, American can also come in to Pakistan for hunting.

You are then just bypassing nation and international laws.
 
Pakistan: LeT, Afghan Taliban and JeM are not terrorists because they don't carry out attacks in Pakistan.
Afghanistan: TTP and JuA are not terrorists because they don't attack Afghanistan.

What's that they say about do unto others? Now Pakistan has demanded that Afghanistan hand over 76 TTP terrorists. If the Afghan government had an ounce of integrity, they would hand them over, provided Pakistan hands over a similar number of Afghan Taliban terrorists.
Thats the problem sir. If pak demands ttp terrorists then afg demands taliban and haqqani terrorists in response.

Nobody is pure in this case isn't it?
 
If pak invades afg and try to prop taliban govt again then pak will be toastwith many countries supporting afg like usa, eng, india

You aren't making much sense my Indian friend. Pakistan has never invaded Afghanistan, also England and the USA are fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan and India is nowhere to be seen on that battlefield. I have no idea why you are mentioning them in the same breath.
 
You aren't making much sense my Indian friend. Pakistan has never invaded Afghanistan, also England and the USA are fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan and India is nowhere to be seen on that battlefield. I have no idea why you are mentioning them in the same breath.

Sir this is in response to another post who says taliban should take over afg again by defeating us and northern Alliance forces. How can they do without pak help.
 
It's being reported in the Times today that Sangin is on the verge of falling back in Taliban hands in Afghanistan. I think it's pretty clear to the rest of the world where the terrorists are based and the country you are living in seems to agree, that is why British soldiers are fighting these terrorists in Afghanistan rather than Pakistan. Come on bro.

That is my point aswell captain, As Per Pakistan the Taliban fighting in Afghanistan are good Taliban who are fighting occupation that is why Pakistan is supporting them. You just said they are terrorists, which is what I consider them. Therefore, we must consider all terrorists as equal and fight them rather then picking and choosing the ones we like or don't like.

British forces , NATO, US forces and Afghan army are fighting whom? The Taliban? Taliban = terrorists!
 
That is my point aswell captain, As Per Pakistan the Taliban fighting in Afghanistan are good Taliban who are fighting occupation that is why Pakistan is supporting them. You just said they are terrorists, which is what I consider them. Therefore, we must consider all terrorists as equal and fight them rather then picking and choosing the ones we like or don't like.

British forces , NATO, US forces and Afghan army are fighting whom? The Taliban? Taliban = terrorists!

Then it doesn't matter who bombs them in Eastern Afghanistan, Pakistani forces or US/Afghan Coalition. They are all terrorists and if they are targeted then it's the right action.
 
Pakistani blood is blood and afghan blood is water? There have been plenty of bombings in Afghanistan and hundreds of people have been in killed by the Taliban and ISIS ( Same people different color turbons). When afghan officials claim Pakistan is involved, everyone here comments that they are making things up and say Pakistan can do no wrong, however when something happens in Pakistan, you want to blame it on Afghanistan and ask for surgical strikes?

Terrorists should not have sanctuaries either in Pakistan or Afghanistan. You cannot pick and chose. If you play with fire then you must accept that you could also get burnt one day.

I have no love for afghan government and I am not here to defend them, however I cannot tolerate words against innocent Afghans and the soldiers who are being killed everyday.

I think Pakistani awam must push its army and government to stop their support for Taliban and kick their leaders from your country. Once that's done, the afghan government will not have any excuse to blame Pakistan. You cannot ask for peace from another country if you are harbouring terrorists yourself.

The same guys make fun of Afghans when they rightly call Pakistan army and ISI for supporting Taliban and planning attacks in Afghanistan. They feed and grew these extremist religious intolerant people themselves. Now they can't control them, so they blame Afghans to wash their own hands and hide their own dirty failed policy.

Many comments from top Pakistan politician support that policy. Even today they would gladly take an oppressing extremist regime of Taliban, but won't accept them in their own country, because Taliban will do as their master tells them from Pakistan.
 
May be Pakistan should clear terrorists inside the country first...or better end terrorist mindset that is being taught in madarsas and schools in Pakistan.
 
The same guys make fun of Afghans when they rightly call Pakistan army and ISI for supporting Taliban and planning attacks in Afghanistan. They feed and grew these extremist religious intolerant people themselves. Now they can't control them, so they blame Afghans to wash their own hands and hide their own dirty failed policy.

Many comments from top Pakistan politician support that policy. Even today they would gladly take an oppressing extremist regime of Taliban, but won't accept them in their own country, because Taliban will do as their master tells them from Pakistan.

Taliban leadership lives in Pakistan and Iran. Mullah mansoor was killed on his way from Iran to Pakistan..... They kept you like caged animals during the refugee era and now they are also hosting the Taliban. Where is the outrage against Iran?
 
Best way is to eradicate terrorism from your land first. Stop supporting any kind of terrorism and then find the bases of terrorists in other countries and then use your power. Terrorists will get harmed a lot but not humans
 
Taliban leadership lives in Pakistan and Iran. Mullah mansoor was killed on his way from Iran to Pakistan..... They kept you like caged animals during the refugee era and now they are also hosting the Taliban. Where is the outrage against Iran?

Yes Taliban is supported by Shia regime.lol.
 
Best way is to eradicate terrorism from your land first. Stop supporting any kind of terrorism and then find the bases of terrorists in other countries and then use your power. Terrorists will get harmed a lot but not humans

Too many unsubstantiated allegations here and in poor taste to be honest. 85 people dead and you are basically saying it serves you right.
 
May be Pakistan should clear terrorists inside the country first...or better end terrorist mindset that is being taught in madarsas and schools in Pakistan.

This is the part everyone is trying to wish away here, don't expect anything concrete done on this front, hell don't even expect an acknowledgement that this is happening. While everyone is crying bloody murder over the actual attackers crossing over from Afghanistan, any questions over how they could make their way from Mohmad Agency all the way to interior Sindh without local support are conspicuous by their absence. It's also painfully obvious that almost no one is aware of where all these various organizations are connected and how big the issue is at home. This is a fairly simplified(and paraphrased for clarity) version I came across somewhere, so here it is for the benefit of both the genuinely uninformed and the blissfully ignorant masses:

There is a network of madrasas that executes mass suicide bombings in Pakistan made up principally of Deobandi madrasas. It doesn't have a name as it is basically a network, united by a common ideology that sees any land including the state of Pakistan not governed by Sharia as "Dar-ul-Harb" - the land of war, to convert which to "Dar-ul-Islam" is their divine mandate.

Within this network are various sub groups essentially run by different commanders, some of which are the LeJ, SSP, JeM, who differ only in terms of their tactical objectives. LeJ/SSP want to exterminate Shias, JeM wants to conquer Kashmir. What's important is that they all believe they are at war with the Dar-ul-Harb which is people like you and me.

And this network and these groups are allowed to exist as they are seen as semi-combatants by the Pakistan Army in their obsession with "strategic depth"

While it simplifies a lot of the finer points, the overall thrust of the narrative is intact and one hundred percent correct unless one's been living under a rock these last 15 years. It's convenient to say "oh, they came from Afghanistan, oh poor us, whatever can we do" but the ground realities are slightly more nuanced and even if some of the attackers responsible for some of the 9 attacks in the last five days did come from Afghanistan, considering the location of some of the attacks they simply could not have done so without significant local support. Then there's the fact that there are tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of local terrorists affiliated with these organizations on Pakistani soil and they have carried out the bulk of terrorist attacks on Pakistan since 2003-04. That said, it's clear which way the winds are blowing here so by all means continue trying to treat gunshot wounds with Saniplast band-aids, see how well that works out.
 
This is the part everyone is trying to wish away here, don't expect anything concrete done on this front, hell don't even expect an acknowledgement that this is happening. While everyone is crying bloody murder over the actual attackers crossing over from Afghanistan, any questions over how they could make their way from Mohmad Agency all the way to interior Sindh without local support are conspicuous by their absence. It's also painfully obvious that almost no one is aware of where all these various organizations are connected and how big the issue is at home. This is a fairly simplified(and paraphrased for clarity) version I came across somewhere, so here it is for the benefit of both the genuinely uninformed and the blissfully ignorant masses:



While it simplifies a lot of the finer points, the overall thrust of the narrative is intact and one hundred percent correct unless one's been living under a rock these last 15 years. It's convenient to say "oh, they came from Afghanistan, oh poor us, whatever can we do" but the ground realities are slightly more nuanced and even if some of the attackers responsible for some of the 9 attacks in the last five days did come from Afghanistan, considering the location of some of the attacks they simply could not have done so without significant local support. Then there's the fact that there are tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of local terrorists affiliated with these organizations on Pakistani soil and they have carried out the bulk of terrorist attacks on Pakistan since 2003-04. That said, it's clear which way the winds are blowing here so by all means continue trying to treat gunshot wounds with Saniplast band-aids, see how well that works out.

So Pakistan Army is complicit in bombing it's own citizens basically. This is your assertion. I'm not passing judgement in any way, just want to be sure we have got our facts straight.
 
Too many unsubstantiated allegations here and in poor taste to be honest. 85 people dead and you are basically saying it serves you right.

You have completely misunderstood my post mate. I said terrorists should not exist anywhere. Any kind of extremism should not be supported. I from my bottom of my heart am sorry for what has happened. So many innocent lives are gone. But yes I have said that Pakistan supported or supports terrorists which don't harm them. Taliban or ISIS or Lashkar or any other organisation must not be supported but should be fought.
 
So Pakistan Army is complicit in bombing it's own citizens basically. This is your assertion. I'm not passing judgement in any way, just want to be sure we have got our facts straight.

Complicit is probably taking it too far in that I doubt they actually approve of them or are in any way involved. Indifferent is what they are. Depending on where their interests lie at the time, some organizations get away with it while others don't. A group like Lashkar e Jhangvi, for instance, continues to be favored despite their body count being second only to TTP's since 2001. Hundreds of attacks in Quetta that have cost anywhere from 2000 to 4000 lives have gone unpunished because LeJ is supported by everyone who's anyone, from PPP, PML and PTI all the way to the army. TTP, on the other hand, is not so lucky despite both PML and PTI supporting them till the very end when the operation was launched in late 2013. JUI-F is part of the government somehow, on top of controlling the CII, despite their leader declaring Hakeemullah Mehsud a martyr. The list goes on but by now my patience is exhausted. It's not like I'll change anyone's mind.
 
Complicit is probably taking it too far in that I doubt they actually approve of them or are in any way involved. Indifferent is what they are. Depending on where their interests lie at the time, some organizations get away with it while others don't. A group like Lashkar e Jhangvi, for instance, continues to be favored despite their body count being second only to TTP's since 2001. Hundreds of attacks in Quetta that have cost anywhere from 2000 to 4000 lives have gone unpunished because LeJ is supported by everyone who's anyone, from PPP, PML and PTI all the way to the army. TTP, on the other hand, is not so lucky despite both PML and PTI supporting them till the very end when the operation was launched in late 2013. JUI-F is part of the government somehow, on top of controlling the CII, despite their leader declaring Hakeemullah Mehsud a martyr. The list goes on but by now my patience is exhausted. It's not like I'll change anyone's mind.

If they aren't complicit and are caught by surprise when these groups are bombing Pakistani citizens, then they must be extremely short-sighted and certainly don't have control of their own country. That in itself seems at odds with an organisation which according to your own assertion won't allow the government to interfere in security issues.

Then of course, if we accept this at face value, you have to question why would these same terrorist organisations bomb cities in Pakistan when they must know that it will cause a public backlash and questions to be raised re the government and/or army and it's response to the outrages. That is going to bring scrutiny on the leadership of the country and possible retaliation. What do they get out of that? Or do you believe that they are now basically confident enough to bomb the country at will without repercussion as they are effectively in control?
 
ISI might be truly super human if it can manage to control all these terrorist organizations, keep the civilian government in check, control elections and see which Mullah is preaching what.
 
If they aren't complicit and are caught by surprise when these groups are bombing Pakistani citizens, then they must be extremely short-sighted and certainly don't have control of their own country. That in itself seems at odds with an organisation which according to your own assertion won't allow the government to interfere in security issues.
Their shortsightedness is the stuff of legend. Surely it is not something someone as well informed on all things Pakistan should already know that. I don't see how that's at odds with the claim that they don't allow government to interfere in security issues. The motive behind maintaing control over security policy isn't that they're concerned about the government messing it up due to it's incompetence and corruption, it's for them to be able to have the final say on who's fair game and who isn't.

Then of course, if we accept this at face value, you have to question why would these same terrorist organisations bomb cities in Pakistan when they must know that it will cause a public backlash and questions to be raised re the government and/or army and it's response to the outrages. That is going to bring scrutiny on the leadership of the country and possible retaliation. What do they get out of that? Or do you believe that they are now basically confident enough to bomb the country at will without repercussion as they are effectively in control?

Pretty much this. They may not personally be in control but they're supported by those who are. A political force such as PTI, which represents an entire province can not carry out a protest rally in the national capital but LeJ's political wing can, in contravention of the law(section 144) no less and they still get police protection, that should say it all. Then there's Lal Masjid that has actually been getting land grants from the government. LeT/JuD operate openly in major urban centers on South Punjab. I'm sure I don't need to tell you about that time a provincial government gave $3 million to Afghan Talibans' premier madrasa not too long ago.

ISI might be truly super human if it can manage to control all these terrorist organizations, keep the civilian government in check, control elections and see which Mullah is preaching what.

No big deal for the number 1 intelligence agency that's the best in the world bar none.
 
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ma...0E8-21F1-11E6-98B6-F92F433222DB?client=safari

This is an article from Wall Street journal.... he was on his way back from Iran where his family lives.

It makes no sense that Taliban who don't see Shia as real muslims would have the backing of Iran. That makes absolute no sense. As I remember it after Mullah Umar the masters of Taliban aka ISI Pakistan Army was not happy with his selection. They thought there were better puppet's, so they played a few games by visiting Iran etc.
Note they travel on Pakistan documents.
 
So in the end, the arm chair critics conclude that the culprit is the Pakistani army........

Imagine a scenario where every militant is eliminated in Pakistan, what should Pakistan do if repeat attack occurs?
 
It makes no sense that Taliban who don't see Shia as real muslims would have the backing of Iran. That makes absolute no sense. As I remember it after Mullah Umar the masters of Taliban aka ISI Pakistan Army was not happy with his selection. They thought there were better puppet's, so they played a few games by visiting Iran etc.
Note they travel on Pakistan documents.

You seem to know a lot more about the ins and outs of their minds don't you? Now we agree that he visited Iran?

He was visiting his family in Iran. Why are Iranians hosting his family? Now is he the only one they were providing sanctuary to?
 
You seem to know a lot more about the ins and outs of their minds don't you? Now we agree that he visited Iran?

He was visiting his family in Iran. Why are Iranians hosting his family? Now is he the only one they were providing sanctuary to?

I don't know what you are trying to prove here, but you cannot compare the founder of Taliban and it's continuing support to this terrorist group with Iran's whatever support they might or might not have given to these barbaric.
 
I don't know what you are trying to prove here, but you cannot compare the founder of Taliban and it's continuing support to this terrorist group with Iran's whatever support they might or might not have given to these barbaric.

You laughed and scoffed at the beginning that Iran was sheltering taliban... now you have come round to the idea that they are sheltering but difficulty trying to comprehend it because you are so programmed to believing the all the blame lay with Pakistan.

How about some outrage that why is Iran sheltering top leadership of the Taliban.
 
You laughed and scoffed at the beginning that Iran was sheltering taliban... now you have come round to the idea that they are sheltering but difficulty trying to comprehend it because you are so programmed to believing the all the blame lay with Pakistan.

How about some outrage that why is Iran sheltering top leadership of the Taliban.

Don't put words in my mouth. You cannot blame Iran for hosting Taliban. 99% of them are in Pakistan. If you don't believe me ask Bajwa or Raheel.
 
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