Should Pakistan's exit from the ICC Champions Trophy 2025 force the PCB to move on from the current players for good?

[Savak]

Asia Cup ODI 2018
ODI WC 2019
T20 WC 2021
Asia T20 Cup 2022
T20 WC 2022
Asia ODI Cup 2023
ODI WC 2023
T20 WC 2024

I am not even including our failures in test cricket and being at the bottom of the rankings

For how long will the country and PCB keep allowing the likes of Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Naseem, Rauf to keep playing for Pakistan without any consistent performances or trophies for Pakistan?

Countries like Australia and India allow maximum two failures but Strike 3 and players, team managements and players are questioned, some even axed.

Sadly Pakistani players have grown too comfortable in failures and mediocrity, Tum jeeto yah haaro humain tumse pyaar hai. These players deserve the treatment that the players in the 90's got for losing matches.

 

[Kianig89]

Don't you know what Justice Cooke said "Clowns work in PCB".

Won't be surprised if Imad Amir Nawaz Shadab Ifti are bought back after CT. The musical chair in Pakistan cricket continues

 

[emranabbas]

Sack the whole lot build a new team around
Fakhar, saim, Agha, kushdil

 

[Muhammad Saad]

And Bring even worse lot??? Have you seen domestic or U19 cricket? Even associate nations have better upcoming players than us.

 

[UP]

The quality of cricket in a chaotic country called Pakistan has declined massively in the past 15-20 years. The country is such a mess that it shows its face in cricket.

I’ve said in this forum again and again - you can chop all the coaches, management and captains in the world, nothing will change unless the people living in the country can economically thrive and the country stabilizes itself.

The decline of cricket is directly linked to the chaos of the country as a whole. Stabilization of the country will bring in much needed funding in the grassroots. Gotta fix the base first. It will take 15 years for the results to show up.

The mess and chaos ‘establishment’ has caused is showing in cricket.

 

[The_KING]

Get rid of the current crap and bring back crap like Sarfraz, Malik, Imad, Nawaz, Amir, Ifthikar. That is Pakistan cricket in a nutshell. Recycle crap with with previously recycled crap.

 

[bones]

The quality of cricket in a chaotic country called Pakistan has declined massively in the past 15-20 years. The country is such a mess that it shows its face in cricket.

Summed up perfectly. Pakistan has always been unstable and a mess, but in the past we managed to get over it sometimes with raw talent. But in the 21st century raw talent is missing and you need to add hard work and a sound ground level system.

Pakistan will continue to be a mediocre side with a few scattered surprises.

 

[zaidihusain]

This should be the end of Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Naseem, Haris. These guys have got maximum opportunities in last 6-7 years without any accountability. I don't care what are the options in domestics, if the team has to continuously lose like this then better to play your B team.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Nothing will change. I've given up waiting.

 

[UP]

Summed up perfectly. Pakistan has always been unstable and a mess, but in the past we managed to get over it sometimes with raw talent. But in the 21st century raw talent is missing and you need to add hard work and a sound ground level system.

Pakistan will continue to be a mediocre side with a few scattered surprises.

A big thanks to the one man ‘establishment’ for the 78 years of non-stop chaotic mess and destruction. Unless the ‘idaara’ goes back to the barracks and right people are installed for the right jobs, we can have some hope in the long term.

Today’s one sided thrashing was so predictable yesterday.

 

[hassan918]

After exiting every tournament, we hear such things of an overhaul but after a few weeks, everyone forgets to do this overhaul.

 

[Markhor]

This should be the end of Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Naseem, Haris. These guys have got maximum opportunities in last 6-7 years without any accountability. I don't care what are the options in domestics, if the team has to continuously lose like this then better to play your B team.

PCB don't have the guts to do so. They'll let the odd bilateral win against opponents going through the motions before a tournament pull the wool over peoples' eyes.

Babar's dropping in Test was a complete joke. Guy missed two Tests, played no FC cricket whatsoever and was back the very next two series.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Rinse and repeat for the next century.

The country's gone, the cricket is hardly important

 

[chinaman00]

Nothing will change. This is Pakistan. Mediocrity runs down and up to the top.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Fakhar Zaman
Saim Ayub
Abdullah Shafique (you need one player that can bat for 30+ overs)
Mohammad Haris
Salman Agha (c)
Khushdil Shah
Amir Jamal
Tayyab Tahir (give him a consistent run)
Kamran Ghulam (give him a consistent run)
Haider Ali (lower order hitter)
Haris Rauf (no other fast bowler)
Mohammad Wasim
Usman Khan ( a hack, but so is our current captain)
Abrar Ahmad
Sufyan Muqeem

Playing XI

Fakhar Zaman
Saim Ayub
Kamran Ghulam
Mohammad Haris (wk)
Salman Agha (c)
Tayyab Tahir
Khushdil Shah
Amir Jamal
Mohammad Wasim
Haris Rauf
Abrar Ahmed

 

[zaidihusain]

PCB don't have the guts to do so. They'll let the odd bilateral win against opponents going through the motions before a tournament pull the wool over peoples' eyes.

Babar's dropping in Test was a complete joke. Guy missed two Tests, played no FC cricket whatsoever and was back the very next two series.

Babar is one of most mentally weak batsman, even guys like Aamir Sohail, Ijaz Ahmad, Abdur Razzaq were mentally tougher than him. In every big match he is the first one to throw his wicket. Shaheen, Naseem & Haris must be discarded, they all are full of hype with no performance in big games. Rizwan is mentally tough but inconsistent and is too slow for ODIs.
Selectors unfairly dropped Abdullah after one bad series against SA

 

[MenInG]

Replace the year and tournament in title for the past 5 years and you will get same result = No

The main point of CT2025 was for Naqvi to claim he had made stadiums habitable for his friends in the VIP enclosures - which he has done. Mission Accomplished

 

[Usman Chadda]

We just don’t have the team to compete against top sides.

Got thrashed by NZ two games in a row before this tournament.

What else did we expect?

The issues are there for everyone to see and Aqib Javed better press the panic button. We are losing anyways, lose with players who want to go out there and play for Pakistan

 

[khyberlion]

Fakhar Zaman
Saim Ayub
Abdullah Shafique (you need one player that can bat for 30+ overs)
Mohammad Haris
Salman Agha (c)
Khushdil Shah
Amir Jamal
Tayyab Tahir (give him a consistent run)
Kamran Ghulam (give him a consistent run)
Haider Ali (lower order hitter)
Haris Rauf (no other fast bowler)
Mohammad Wasim
Usman Khan ( a hack, but so is our current captain)
Abrar Ahmad
Sufyan Muqeem

Playing XI

Fakhar Zaman
Saim Ayub
Kamran Ghulam
Mohammad Haris (wk)
Salman Agha (c)
Tayyab Tahir
Khushdil Shah
Amir Jamal
Mohammad Wasim
Haris Rauf
Abrar Ahmed

Lol at Tayyab, amir Jamal and Kamran Ghulam.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Lol at Tayyab, amir Jamal and Kamran Ghulam.

lol at Babar Azam, Rizwan, Imam and whoever else you support.

 

[khyberlion]

lol at Babar Azam, Rizwan, Imam and whoever else you support.

Imam is rubbish so is rizwan and Babar should be shown the door. Doesn't mean Tayyab, Kamran etc are any good. We have seen they are even worse. Amir Jamal is another who gets spanked at nearly 10 an over in list A domestic competition while averaging less than Shaheen with the bat.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Imam is rubbish so is rizwan and Babar should be shown the door. Doesn't mean Tayyab, Kamran etc are any good. We have seen they are even worse. Amir Jamal is another who gets spanked at nearly 10 an over in list A domestic competition while averaging less than Shaheen with the bat.

ok, then who are you suggesting?

 

[Xoib]

We just don’t have the team to compete against top sides.

Got thrashed by NZ two games in a row before this tournament.

What else did we expect?

The issues are there for everyone to see and Aqib Javed better press the panic button. We are losing anyways, lose with players who want to go out there and play for Pakistan

Aqib is the problem he did the coup on coaching job as he wanted home ICC tourney glory.

He deserve this humiliation

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Imam is rubbish so is rizwan and Babar should be shown the door. Doesn't mean Tayyab, Kamran etc are any good. We have seen they are even worse. Amir Jamal is another who gets spanked at nearly 10 an over in list A domestic competition while averaging less than Shaheen with the bat.

Also, if you're going to use domestic stats against Jamal, then tell us how Tayyab and Kamran performed in the champions cup?

 

[khyberlion]

ok, then who are you suggesting?

Invest in any young batsmens not 30 year old who are useless like Tayyab. Go with players like Maaz Sadaqat, Qasim Akram, Arafat Minhas, Hasan Nawaz. I would even give the likes of Haider Ali and Abdullah another go in odis

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Fakhar Zaman
Saim Ayub
Abdullah Shafique (you need one player that can bat for 30+ overs)
Mohammad Haris
Salman Agha (c)
Khushdil Shah
Amir Jamal
Tayyab Tahir (give him a consistent run)
Kamran Ghulam (give him a consistent run)
Haider Ali (lower order hitter)
Haris Rauf (no other fast bowler)
Mohammad Wasim
Usman Khan ( a hack, but so is our current captain)
Abrar Ahmad
Sufyan Muqeem

Playing XI

Fakhar Zaman
Saim Ayub
Kamran Ghulam
Mohammad Haris (wk)
Salman Agha (c)
Tayyab Tahir
Khushdil Shah
Amir Jamal
Mohammad Wasim
Haris Rauf
Abrar Ahmed

Add Irfan Niazi, completely forgot about him.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Three things are certain in life, death, taxes, & mediocrity / unprofessionalism from Pakistanis.

Expect nothing to change

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Aqib is the problem he did the coup on coaching job as he wanted home ICC tourney glory.

He deserve this humiliation

Asad Shafiq, Hassan Cheema, Aleem Dar (lol), and that Data analyst guy.

 

[khyberlion]

Add Irfan Niazi, completely forgot about him.

Agreed he's got something about him.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Invest in any young batsmens not 30 year old who are useless like Tayyab. Go with players like Maaz Sadaqat, Qasim Akram, Arafat Minhas, Hasan Nawaz. I would even give the likes of Haider Ali and Abdullah another go in odis

Why should they walk into the national team without toiling in domestic?

Make them play 45-50 List A games, pick them at their peak not when they're raw.

 

[UP]

It just saddens me to witness the 78 years of destruction of the country and our cricket as a whole by a one man ‘establishment’. Elections are rigged, governments are installed on fake mandates, political parties are broken to pieces, justice system is pummelled and yet we turn on the televisions despite knowing it will be a one way traffic in yet another thrashing by India or any other major team.

Grass-root funding and infrastructure needs stability and right people in the right jobs.

Whatever I’ve mentioned above is the face of our cricket.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Asia Cup ODI 2018
ODI WC 2019
T20 WC 2021
Asia T20 Cup 2022
T20 WC 2022
Asia ODI Cup 2023
ODI WC 2023
T20 WC 2024

I am not even including our failures in test cricket and being at the bottom of the rankings

For how long will the country and PCB keep allowing the likes of Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Naseem, Rauf to keep playing for Pakistan without any consistent performances or trophies for Pakistan?

Countries like Australia and India allow maximum two failures but Strike 3 and players, team managements and players are questioned, some even axed.

Sadly Pakistani players have grown too comfortable in failures and mediocrity, Tum jeeto yah haaro humain tumse pyaar hai. These players deserve the treatment that the players in the 90's got for losing matches.

Who are these talented players in the pipeline to replace them? In case Pakistan are out of current CT?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Dump them and dumb Aqib.

Naqvi should go on his knees and beg Kirsten and Gillespie back.

All you lot who wanted Aqib because Kirsten didn't do throwdowns in the NCA agree to have rotten tomatoes on their face and chittar on their backs.

Only then can we move on.

 

[khyberlion]

Why should they walk into the national team without toiling in domestic?

Make them play 45-50 List A games, pick them at their peak not when they're raw.

Yeah we have seen that with Tayyab tahir, sahibzada Farhan etc invest in players with potential.

 

[moghul]

Remove Naqvi first.

 

[Sherlock]

Yes because we saw the change when Pak was humiliated vs the USA and got KO'd early in the previous T20 WC...

 

[mon858]

Not entire lot.
Only rizwan at a minimum from white ball.
Then once saim and fakhar back that will fix top order and balance of stroke makers and accumulators.
Make Salman all format captain and let him build new tram around him.

 

[Azrim_91]

I’ve said this for many years. If Pakistan uses their domestic system as a means to select players then they are doomed. A strong club side in the UK would beat a Pakistani domestic side. The only way to develop players is to do it how they used to do it in the 80s and 90s.

Find u19 players, get them into the national side. Let them fail and learn. The only way you will get to that level is playing that international standard level regularly. The culture and setup of the national side should also be developed with strong coaching and psychology staff in order to develop players mentally and physically so that they don’t falter like the younger players we brought in (naseem, shadab, shaheen)

 

[Nasty Naz]

People make it sound like as if Pakistan are loaded with talent and quality players just sitting waiting to get their chance. They lost one rookie ODI player in Saim Ayub and it was complete chaos trying to find a way to replace him.

Pakistan just suck, there is minimal talent and you have coaches & selectors devoid of any thinking or long-term planning either. All the decisions are made on short term "form". All the players you had leading up to the CT were discarded and randomly players like Saud/Khushdil/Faheem etc are back on the team on the basis of performance in other format very recently. There is no long-term strategy or vision, everything is about short-term fixes. You look at a team like NZ that doesn't have a large pool of players to select from but the ones they do select are heavily developed and the board focuses on getting the best out of them. In Pakistan, they just look for someone to replace you with instead of trying to develop or unlock all the players abilities.

The issues are so systematic that I don't think it will ever get fixed. It's just constant temporary patch work to save a sinking ship.

 

[Energy]

Dump them and dumb Aqib.

Naqvi should go on his knees and beg Kirsten and Gillespie back.

All you lot who wanted Aqib because Kirsten didn't do throwdowns in the NCA agree to have rotten tomatoes on their face and chittar on their backs.

Only then can we move on.

The mafia/lobby is too strong mate. I'd also like to think that ideally it's time to drop Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Rauf et al but who knows what sort of political power they hold within the PCB.

The fact that the core group (including Shadab) has stuck around happily for 5+ years with no accountability shows the gaps within PCB and their management.

For Shaheen to show tantrums of repeated indiscipline while bowling and for Babar's runs to have no impact, game after game is visible to everyone. And yet no one can do anything about it.

 

[shaz619]

Nothing will change, they keep building the team with Riz/Babar in high profile position as seniors, they have been central to creating a culture of mediocrity and have disturbed the teams development at the highest level. There has been zero accountability and Pakistan have given them a long rope despite repeated humiliation in ICC events, worse still, the fans defend these average players who meddle in affairs they have no business being involved in. They are the most selfish group of cricketers to ever represent Pakistan.

Kohli had every right to want his hundred in the situation before him with the game won, but he still wanted to give strike to a reluctant Axar. This is the difference in mentality between someone like Kohli and a Babar or Riz.

 

[emranabbas]

And Bring even worse lot??? Have you seen domestic or U19 cricket? Even associate nations have better upcoming players than us.

There are a handful of openers in emerging and up19 who are better than these lot

 

[emranabbas]

The quality of cricket in a chaotic country called Pakistan has declined massively in the past 15-20 years. The country is such a mess that it shows its face in cricket.

I’ve said in this forum again and again - you can chop all the coaches, management and captains in the world, nothing will change unless the people living in the country can economically thrive and the country stabilizes itself.

The decline of cricket is directly linked to the chaos of the country as a whole. Stabilization of the country will bring in much needed funding in the grassroots. Gotta fix the base first. It will take 15 years for the results to show up.

The mess and chaos ‘establishment’ has caused is showing in cricket.

It was worse when PTI was running the establishment.

 

[emranabbas]

Nothing will change. I've given up waiting.

You sir are a very clever person

 

[zahid01]

People make it sound like as if Pakistan are loaded with talent and quality players just sitting waiting to get their chance. They lost one rookie ODI player in Saim Ayub and it was complete chaos trying to find a way to replace him.

Pakistan just suck, there is minimal talent and you have coaches & selectors devoid of any thinking or long-term planning either. All the decisions are made on short term "form". All the players you had leading up to the CT were discarded and randomly players like Saud/Khushdil/Faheem etc are back on the team on the basis of performance in other format very recently. There is no long-term strategy or vision, everything is about short-term fixes. You look at a team like NZ that doesn't have a large pool of players to select from but the ones they do select are heavily developed and the board focuses on getting the best out of them. In Pakistan, they just look for someone to replace you with instead of trying to develop or unlock all the players abilities.

The issues are so systematic that I don't think it will ever get fixed. It's just constant temporary patch work to save a sinking ship.

People keep saying we don't have talent atleast test the limited talent we do have they surely can't do worse than these bunch of losers

 

[saimayubera]

There are no hidden treasures unselected. This is Pakistan's best. It's just that they are not good enough.

 

[zaidihusain]

People keep saying we don't have talent atleast test the limited talent we do have they surely can't do worse than these bunch of losers

Absolutely. It's ironic that some fans are blaming PCB chairman or selectors. They are not blaming those 6 players who are playing continuously since last 7 years without accountability and performances in big events like Shaheen, Babar, Rizwan, Imam, Naseem, Rauf. These guys can't make any excuse, they should simply retire and make way for others

 

[sweep_shot]

I think a complete revamp is necessary in ODI format (just like it was done after 2003 WC).

A new ODI team with new players and a new leader.

This current team shouldn't be selected as it is for 2027 WC.

 

[psyoptica]

The quality of cricket in a chaotic country called Pakistan has declined massively in the past 15-20 years. The country is such a mess that it shows its face in cricket.

I’ve said in this forum again and again - you can chop all the coaches, management and captains in the world, nothing will change unless the people living in the country can economically thrive and the country stabilizes itself.

The decline of cricket is directly linked to the chaos of the country as a whole. Stabilization of the country will bring in much needed funding in the grassroots. Gotta fix the base first. It will take 15 years for the results to show up.

The mess and chaos ‘establishment’ has caused is showing in cricket.

A poor country that spends billions on defence and military budget. Where a huge chunk of the population lives below the poverty line but cricketers are paid in millions. No wonder the country is in such a mess. The priorities are all messed up

 

[Snowflake]

I don’t think overhaul of the player is needed. You get a fresh batch and watch them turn into the same mold as these guys.

It’s a mindset change that is needed. A cultural shift. They need to be told in clear terms that stat padding will not be tolerated. Teams needs have to prioritized. They need to be shown how other teams play cricket.

Focus should be on impactful innings and meaningless individual runs and rankings should be rubbished. Any player found guilty of protecting his own place in the side should be chucked out.

Management should define VERY CLEARLY the kind of cricket that this team will play going forward. Anyone playing a different brand should have no place in the team.

Once the above is done, these same guys will turn into much better players.

 

[Snowflake]

It was worse when PTI was running the establishment.

lol! No one ever ran the establishment in Pak. Establishment runs the country.

The poster is right that this is all linked to the mess the establishment has created in the country. It trickles down to all facets, including sports… worse during PTI or not is totally irrelevant

 

[UP]

lol! No one ever ran the establishment in Pak. Establishment runs the country.

The poster is right that this is all linked to the mess the establishment has created in the country. It trickles down to all facets, including sports… worse during PTI or not is totally irrelevant

There is no ‘establishment’ in the country.

It’s a one man ‘establishment’. One guy controls everything. One guy can topple governments, rig elections or make or break things. This one guy needs to be sent back to barracks asap. One man establishment.

 

[IAJ]

Sack the whole lot build a new team around
Fakhar, saim, Agha, kushdil

Khushdil? Are you serious? Khuda ka khouf karo yaar. He is a nothing player, a pure parchi like Imam and Faheem.

Fakhar is almost 35. You can have him around for short term only.

 

[emranabbas]

Khushdil? Are you serious? Khuda ka khouf karo yaar. He is a nothing player, a pure parchi like Imam and Faheem.

Fakhar is almost 35. You can have him around for short term only.

Koi aur spin bowling allrounder bata dein?

Shadab chacha nawaz imad kaun?

 

[IAJ]

Koi aur spin bowling allrounder bata dein?

Shadab chacha nawaz imad kaun?

Since you mentioned Shadab, I would take him over Khushdil any day.

You need one specialist spinner and then you have to give more responsibility to Salman and Saim. They can bowl 7-8 overs in ODIs easily. Maybe also work on Qasim Akram?

And don't we have any other new and upcoming fastbowling allrounders? Geniune question.

 

[mominsaigol]

I’ve said this for many years. If Pakistan uses their domestic system as a means to select players then they are doomed. A strong club side in the UK would beat a Pakistani domestic side. The only way to develop players is to do it how they used to do it in the 80s and 90s.

Find u19 players, get them into the national side. Let them fail and learn. The only way you will get to that level is playing that international standard level regularly. The culture and setup of the national side should also be developed with strong coaching and psychology staff in order to develop players mentally and physically so that they don’t falter like the younger players we brought in (naseem, shadab, shaheen)

They did this with saim and it worked. Saim is a massive outliers because they allowed him to fail 33 international games in a row before he could kick off.

Australia is trying to do this with fraser and konstas as well.

 

[Savak]

I don’t think overhaul of the player is needed. You get a fresh batch and watch them turn into the same mold as these guys.

It’s a mindset change that is needed. A cultural shift. They need to be told in clear terms that stat padding will not be tolerated. Teams needs have to prioritized. They need to be shown how other teams play cricket.

Focus should be on impactful innings and meaningless individual runs and rankings should be rubbished. Any player found guilty of protecting his own place in the side should be chucked out.

Management should define VERY CLEARLY the kind of cricket that this team will play going forward. Anyone playing a different brand should have no place in the team.

Once the above is done, these same guys will turn into much better players.

Overhaul is definitely needed, 5-6 players in the team have too much power and political, social connections due to which they keep getting selected again and again with zero performances.

In the professional world people get fired for non performance. In some big major organizations, entire departments have been sacked because of debacles.

 

[mesmerizer85]

Sack the whole lot build a new team around
Fakhar, saim, Agha, kushdil

and give confidence to some of the players who were in the winning combination against SA and AUS like KG,Irfan Niazi and Sufiyaan Muqeem. Get some young fast bowlers who take wickets with variations unlike Shaheen and Haris who think pace is pace yaar.

 

[emranabbas]

and give confidence to some of the players who were in the winning combination against SA and AUS like KK,Irfan Niazi and Sufiyaan Muqeem. Get some young fast bowlers who take wickets with variations unlike Shaheen and Haris who think pace is pace yaar.

Realistically this is the way forward but some players are untouchable

Rizwan babar rauf shaheen naseem all need to be sacked and never be let near the team

 

[Snowflake]

There is no ‘establishment’ in the country.

It’s a one man ‘establishment’. One guy controls everything. One guy can topple governments, rig elections or make or break things. This one guy needs to be sent back to barracks asap. One man establishment.

I don’t know how you came up with that as establishments role in Pakistan politics is documented and is several decades old.

 

[Snowflake]

We cannot just use the same brush for everyone. Pakistan’s biggest issue is its batting. If we fix the batting, we fix 90% of this team.

Our batsmen lack self belief. They lack guts. They are extremely nervous and scared of playing attacking cricket. Because of this mental state, their priority becomes self preservation. You need to build a culture in the team which forces these guys to play fearless and impactful cricket. The obsession with individual milestones and rankings needs to be killed. Any player that doesn’t conform to this culture needs to be kicked out.

If you cultivate a ruthless and winning mentality in the team, many of these same guys will transform into wonderful players. Right now, they are we just trapped in their own timid mindset where they are afraid to lose their wicket at every delivery that they face.

There is no heart.

 

[JaDed]

We cannot just use the same brush for everyone. Pakistan’s biggest issue is its batting. If we fix the batting, we fix 90% of this team.

Our batsmen lack self belief. They lack guts. They are extremely nervous and scared of playing attacking cricket. Because of this mental state, their priority becomes self preservation. You need to build a culture in the team which forces these guys to play fearless and impactful cricket. The obsession with individual milestones and rankings needs to be killed. Any player that doesn’t conform to this culture needs to be kicked out.

If you cultivate a ruthless and winning mentality in the team, many of these same guys will transform into wonderful players. Right now, they are we just trapped in their own timid mindset where they are afraid to lose their wicket at every delivery that they face.

There is no heart.

Pakistani batting has always been on and off but your bowling has been absolutely ridiculous in last 2 years.
Even stats would prove that.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Pakistan did the impossible. They have made Kohli look like a superstar batsman once again after many years. Not even a mediocre Bangladesh could do that.

 

[Snowflake]

Pakistani batting has always been on and off but your bowling has been absolutely ridiculous in last 2 years.
Even stats would prove that.

I don’t have stats to prove this, but Pakistan’s batting has definitely lost us more big games than our bowling in the last 5-7 years.

 

[ghalib kichlu]

This is a bit harsh
Alien batting conditions for the team with some of the team not having played a major icc tournament before
Lack of preparation as well with some players only joining on board as injury replacements

Let's give them one more tournament before we drop them, otherwise we could be dropping another player from the peak period of his career just like we could have done with Sam ayub

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I don’t think overhaul of the player is needed. You get a fresh batch and watch them turn into the same mold as these guys.

It’s a mindset change that is needed. A cultural shift. They need to be told in clear terms that stat padding will not be tolerated. Teams needs have to prioritized. They need to be shown how other teams play cricket.

Focus should be on impactful innings and meaningless individual runs and rankings should be rubbished. Any player found guilty of protecting his own place in the side should be chucked out.

Management should define VERY CLEARLY the kind of cricket that this team will play going forward. Anyone playing a different brand should have no place in the team.

Once the above is done, these same guys will turn into much better players.

I think I made an entire thread on this once.

If I walk on the tennis court and start thinking like Federer I wont become Federer.

Sorry, but no sorry.

These players dont play this timid way because they are scared.

They play this way because this is their skillset and skill level.

A donkey cant outrun a horse.

Its futile.

Either outhaul the system producing donkeys or stop expecting donkeys to turn to horses during races.

 

[shariqnoor]

If you have a team like Papua New Guinea and you expect it to give you results like India, then the fault lies with the fans.

Accept that this is the level of talent left in Pakistan and adjust your expectations accordingly.

 

[Vikram1989]

What happened after wc 19, wc 23, t20 wc 22 after a lottery in to finals, t20 wc 24.nothing will change apart from fans frustration.

 

[topspin]

If you have a team like Papua New Guinea and you expect it to give you results like India, then the fault lies with the fans.

Accept that this is the level of talent left in Pakistan and adjust your expectations accordingly.

I agree expectations should be kept low but that doesn’t excuse your archaic reading of white ball cricket.

Remember when you told us about how Imam is Pakistan’s best opener and crucial to the Pakistan team?

 

[Kroll]

If you have a team like Papua New Guinea and you expect it to give you results like India, then the fault lies with the fans.

Accept that this is the level of talent left in Pakistan and adjust your expectations accordingly.

That's a ridiculous take. The problem isn’t a lack of talent—it’s the complete mismanagement of it. Pakistan isn’t suffering from a shortage of natural ability; what we have is an inherent flaw in our structure, discipline, and approach to modern cricket.

We don't settle for mediocrity—we demand improvement and a return to competitive standards. Get your priorities straight.

 

[mesmerizer85]

Political intervention in sports like other departments and country's institutions is the reason. The PCT is a reflection of how our country is run hence results are same like instability and corruption.

Hockey and Squash were once as popular as cricket. But not anymore.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Obviously, YES.

WHen are we gonna move on and take bold step. CT2025 is over so they should really be trying to revamp the whole system. Babar as opener was never gonna work and it did not.

You picked Usman because he was in good form in Champions cup as an opener but when you needed an opener, you called Imam and played him and USman was still sitting on the bench.

PATHETIC MANAGEMENT NEEDS TO GO

 

[jnaveen1980]

Obviously, YES.

WHen are we gonna move on and take bold step. CT2025 is over so they should really be trying to revamp the whole system. Babar as opener was never gonna work and it did not.

You picked Usman because he was in good form in Champions cup as an opener but when you needed an opener, you called Imam and played him and USman was still sitting on the bench.

PATHETIC MANAGEMENT NEEDS TO GO

Pakistan has tuk tukers and hacks. Nothing in between. Proper stroke players like Inzamam are not there anymore. Bat touching the ball sound is painful to hear. Ashwin mentioned in his channel he said "I used to have fever when Saeed ANwar came to bat. Babar azam doesn't belong to that category"

 

[shariqnoor]

That's a ridiculous take. The problem isn’t a lack of talent—it’s the complete mismanagement of it. Pakistan isn’t suffering from a shortage of natural ability; what we have is an inherent flaw in our structure, discipline, and approach to modern cricket.

We don't settle for mediocrity—we demand improvement and a return to competitive standards. Get your priorities straight.

Complete conflation of two separate issues.

I have written extensively here on this forum about the issues of mismanagement which hinders Pakistan cricket.

However, what I'm talking about is the lack of skills that is omnipresent. Bangladesh also has a lot of talented cricketers in their country but the don't have skills to compete. If Bangladesh fans start demanding that their team win ICC tournaments, then they are nothing but deluded.

Same goes for Pakistan fans. When Irfan Niazi was in the team, he was butchered on this forum. Now that he is not in the team, fans are asking why is he not in the team? Goes to show the mental IQ of the fans. Anybody who isn't in the team is a better player who would've done great. That's the fans logic. Abdullah Shafique is being paraded as a great opener now that he isn't in the team. Has everyone forgotten his 3 consecutive ducks in Australia where he was made to look like a clown.

Nobody here is saying that we shouldn't demand accountability. But first learn to assess your team skills, adjust your expectations accordingly and then work behind the scenes to uplift the standards.

 

[shariqnoor]

I agree expectations should be kept low but that doesn’t excuse your archaic reading of white ball cricket.

Remember when you told us about how Imam is Pakistan’s best opener and crucial to the Pakistan team?

Yes, Imam at that point was indeed Pakistan's best opener. Averaging close to 50 with a SR of close to 90 in the last 2-3 years means he was the best opener at that point.

Did he play a horrible innings yesterday? Absolutely. Both of those things can be true at the same time. What's so difficult to understand?

Should Imam be in the team going forward? Maybe not because Saim delivered in the past 2 series in spades and has shown to be an upgrade over Imam. Saim deserves to be the opening partner to Fakhar. That's how cricket works. That's how competition works.

On another note, didn't you say Shaheen is the best fast bowler in Pakistan?

 

[mon858]

Not entire lot.
Only rizwan at a minimum from white ball.
Then once saim and fakhar back that will fix top order and balance of stroke makers and accumulators.
Make Salman all format captain and let him build new tram around him.

One more thing. A real focus needed on continuous improvement and high performance culture. So many players come , are initially good but their progress stagnates. Partly due to their attitude, partly pcb, partly even fans over hyping them to the moon.

Shadab for good for quite some time but didn't continue to work on improvising his bowling in particular or playing first class, etc and now out of picture.

Babar, hyped to the moon, was very good for long time, but has had couple of identified weaknesses that he hasn't been able to address. One major one being against quality spin, other ability to maneuver bowling when they don't bowl lose balls, and outside off stump good length balls, getting out to them, and lastly complete lack of power game.

Even Hafeez later in career worked and addressed power game, so it can be done.

Rizwan, nothing needs to be said. But basic intent and strike rotation lacking, off side game lacking.

Tayyab, decent but has knack of falling and hitting short arm jab lack of elevation to mid wicket getting out multiple times there.

Saud, again lack of strike rotation, thought bit better than Rizwan overall, at least decent enough technique but has this knack of trying to time and hit in air for six only to put in hands of square leg.

Kamran Ghulam, has good intent but Jack in a box, jumping out for wild swing to spinner holing out to point multiple times. Needs to fix strike rotation options, this particular release shot.

It's not like we have Gills, Head, Brook in domestics. Even if alternates there they will have similar issues due to our poor overall system and process.

Hence, take these guys for 2 months with Mobammed Yusuf to have him work on each of their specific issues and rectify them.

Look at how they show for other players even Indian batsmen how they changed stance or certain approach to given bowler from year to year to address their issues.

We need to do the same.

However, that requires the need and understanding of it first.

1. Player has to acknowledge they have a problem and want to fix it.
2. System provides time and opportunity to fix it.
3. Continual monitoring of such things and enabling a High performance culture.

Otherwise players who are good or very good one day will only regress at international level if they do not work on weaknesses as individuals and as a team overall.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Change the mentality for good or go. Choice is their.

If the nation asks Babar and Rizwan to play the way a modern batter is supposed to play and they don’t, whose fault is it then for them getting dropped?

 

[Shaka81]

Without change at grassroots level and improvement throughout the coaching and talent scouting structure, there will be no progress. The current cricket structure will just promote the same type of players and recycle them endlessly.

 

[Savak]

One more thing. A real focus needed on continuous improvement and high performance culture. So many players come , are initially good but their progress stagnates. Partly due to their attitude, partly pcb, partly even fans over hyping them to the moon.

Shadab for good for quite some time but didn't continue to work on improvising his bowling in particular or playing first class, etc and now out of picture.

Babar, hyped to the moon, was very good for long time, but has had couple of identified weaknesses that he hasn't been able to address. One major one being against quality spin, other ability to maneuver bowling when they don't bowl lose balls, and outside off stump good length balls, getting out to them, and lastly complete lack of power game.

Even Hafeez later in career worked and addressed power game, so it can be done.

Rizwan, nothing needs to be said. But basic intent and strike rotation lacking, off side game lacking.

Tayyab, decent but has knack of falling and hitting short arm jab lack of elevation to mid wicket getting out multiple times there.

Saud, again lack of strike rotation, thought bit better than Rizwan overall, at least decent enough technique but has this knack of trying to time and hit in air for six only to put in hands of square leg.

Kamran Ghulam, has good intent but Jack in a box, jumping out for wild swing to spinner holing out to point multiple times. Needs to fix strike rotation options, this particular release shot.

It's not like we have Gills, Head, Brook in domestics. Even if alternates there they will have similar issues due to our poor overall system and process.

Hence, take these guys for 2 months with Mobammed Yusuf to have him work on each of their specific issues and rectify them.

Look at how they show for other players even Indian batsmen how they changed stance or certain approach to given bowler from year to year to address their issues.

We need to do the same.

However, that requires the need and understanding of it first.

1. Player has to acknowledge they have a problem and want to fix it.
2. System provides time and opportunity to fix it.
3. Continual monitoring of such things and enabling a High performance culture.

Otherwise players who are good or very good one day will only regress at international level if they do not work on weaknesses as individuals and as a team overall.

Ultimately the players are responsible for their own games. These Pakistani players have all the resources in the world to be the best possible athletes and to iron out their deficiencies in their spare time. They come into the team with some hunger, fire in the belly but then stagnate because of complacency, lack of competition, having too much power over the PCB and in the team and hence the end result is they know they are secure and don't have to worry about losing their places.

As far as domestic cricket is concerned, too many same coaches, individuals have been in the domestic system, nca, U19 set up for a good 15-20 years now and our U19, Shaheens team has been frequently losing to India, Afghanistan, Bangladesh. This is where the alarm bells should have run a long time ago but the PCB hasn't really taken long term action.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Maybe PCB should have Jay Shah become the President.