Sikhism

[Nakhuda]

Hi folks!.Well i've a few Sikh friends who until we discussed religion had no problems with.There hostility towards Muslims and Islam really got me mad so we ended up having a massive row cos up until then i didn't know how many Sikhs deep down are so against Islam due to what certain Mughals did to their Guru's but even those stories are exaggerated.
I don't accept Sikhism as a revealed religion yet i've no probs with Sikhs either but what i'd be interested to hear is experiences of other passioners with the Sikh people.

 

[Oxy]

Sikh parents at my children's schools refuse their kids to learn about Islam-they withdraw their kids when it happens. They also refuse to allow them to take part in any Eid celebrations (whilst happy for them to study/celebrate other religious festivals)

One Sikh boy (6-7 yrs old) in my son's class made an Eid card last Eid...showed it to his mum outside the school-she snatched it from him...cursed him punjabi gaaliyaan, tore up the card and threw it on the ground...and walked off!

I have a very low opinion of them since.

 

[Aurangzeb]

sikhism was invented...nuff said...its a religion based on ethnicity...give me a break...they still hold anger for what happened hundreds of years ago?...we killed their guru's...so what?...get over it...freakin pathetic...

 

[Somali Pirate]

when i was in the uae i had couple of sikh friends.And they were all right.

 

[Saj]

I would mention to a few of your sikh friends that their Guru Nanak learnt all about Islam.

 

[sy]

I know many Sikhs. Most of them aren't religious.

 

[Hash]

I work in Ealing which is pretty much Sikh central. Loads of sikhs in my workplace. Some of them are nice people and others are not.

Just the same as Muslims. I know of plenty of Muslims who do much worse then rip up a couple of cards if something Hindu or something from another sect is anywhere near them.

 

[Aurangzeb]

I know sikhs who don't wear turbans or any of the other stuff...they're called "modern sikhs"...they're nice guys...but the ones who are religious hate muslims with a passion...and its rumoured that they'll cut their hair once all the muslims in the world die...or something to that effect...anyways, i hear there's a lot of sikhs in england...are there more sikhs there than pakistani's?

 

[irfan]

Alot of Punjabi Pakistanis have Sikh ancestors. I know one branch of my family were Sikhs until they were forcibly converted to Islam during Mughal Aurangzeb's rule about 350 years ago.

 

[Jimmy two-times]

i heard guru nanak converted to islam before he died, when i went pakistan recently there was about 60 sikhs travelling on the plane and they went round talking and mixing with all us muslims on the plane.

 

[Mercenary]

Sikhs are like anyone else, you get good ones and bad ones.

However i do agree that the majority of them have a deep rooted hatred of Islam and Muslims, possibly indoctrinated into them by their temples and parents.

 

[Saj]

Aurangzeb, there are some areas of the UK where Sikhs are the largest Asian minority - Ealing, Southall, some parts of Leeds, Wolverhampton etc

I have a number of Sikh friends, most of whom come from Uganda and they are very humble folk.

 

[irfan]

There is animosity both ways, in Punjabi that Muslims use there are alot of derogatory phrases about Sikhs eg 'Sikh har tere vee baran vaje ne' etc

 

[AT1]

so i had a sikh friend.. he came to my place and when i ofered him food he said he couldnt take it.. why? becuase they cnat aceept something which a muslim has touched..
hmmm...

 

[Jive Jive Pakistan]

sikh problem is with islam and there gurus connections

and also the land of pakistan being for the muslims

 

[Tupac]

it's like a bag of apples....you'll get a rough one now and then...this is true for muslims also, hindus, and christians

aurangazeb...do you mind keeping your shut when you have no idea what your talking about? How was sikhism "invented"?? btw most Sikhs do not carry hatred for what happened so many years ago to the gurus....in any case most of these deaths were avenged

 

[AT1]

hey for any sikh's out there..

someome eariler said,

"and its rumoured that they'll cut their hair once all the muslims in the world die"

ive heard exactly the same thing from this sikh dude i know, is it true?

 

[Muddaser]

Alot of Punjabi Pakistanis have Sikh ancestors. I know one branch of my family were Sikhs until they were forcibly converted to Islam during Mughal Aurangzeb's rule about 350 years ago.

Islam has been in the Punjab before Sikhism ever existed.

How the hell is that possible?

BTW, half of the Sikh bible was written by a muslim.

 

[irfan]

Islam has been in the Punjab before Sikhism ever existed.

How the hell is that possible?
.

Go & read some history.

 

[Hash]

By the way there is a significant Sikh community in Pakistan. Even the Pakistan army has a sikh officer. I don't think they all have these views on Muslims.

 

[Hash]

Islam has been in the Punjab before Sikhism ever existed.
How the hell is that possible?

BTW, half of the Sikh bible was written by a muslim.

Some of my father's ancestors were definitely Sikh. We know that for a fact.

 

[nafajafam]

Islam has been in the Punjab before Sikhism ever existed.

How the hell is that possible?

BTW, half of the Sikh bible was written by a muslim.

proof please

 

[Mercenary]

Alot of Punjabi Pakistanis have Sikh ancestors. I know one branch of my family were Sikhs until they were forcibly converted to Islam during Mughal Aurangzeb's rule about 350 years ago.

Muslims have been in India for over 1200 years! Sikhism is barely 500 years old!

How do you know they were forcibly converted 350 years ago?

 

[irfan]

As I said before go read some history of Mughals & Islam in Punjab.

 

[Jive Jive Pakistan]

guru nanak did hajj so islam must have existed in punjab

and also wat about the great saints in pakistani who spread islam they arrived befiore sikhism

like hazrat data ganj baksh

 

[Mercenary]

you're talking rubbish. Some of my father's ancestors were definitely Sikh. We know that for a fact.

Guru Nanak was born in 1469, that puts the origin of sikhism at about about 500 years ago.

Muslims were trading with India as early as 1200 years ago and warring with Indian principalities about 1000 years ago.

Guru Nanak was heavily influenced by Islam and Sikhism is his attempt to reconcile Islam and Hinduism. India was under Muslim rule centuries before Guru Nanak was born.

 

[zushy_786]

sikhism was invented...nuff said...its a religion based on ethnicity...give me a break...they still hold anger for what happened hundreds of years ago?...we killed their guru's...so what?...get over it...freakin pathetic...

Aurangzeb,
What's your problem ?? If you don't like the religion then fine.....But that doesn't mean you have to spew rubbish about Sikhism or the people.....First you attack Ismailies and now this.....Utterely pathetic....

 

[irfan]

Geez no one's saying that Sikhism came before Islam or that there were no Muslims in Punjab, just that Islam wasn't as prevalent.

Mughals didn't have control of all of India, in Punjab there were continual wars & battles to gain ascendancy. Previously, Mughal rulers had been quite secular & tolerant but Aurangzeb interperted Islam very strictly and was much more intolerant of non Muslims,thereby forcing many to convert.

 

[Muddaser]

you're talking rubbish. Some of my father's ancestors were definitely Sikh. We know that for a fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_region

This should help you.

Islam first entered Subcontinent during 700 AD.

1300 years ago.

Sikhism has only existed 500 odd years.

 

[Hash]

Guru Nanak was born in 1469, that puts the origin of sikhism at about about 500 years ago.

Muslims were trading with India as early as 1200 years ago and warring with Indian principalities about 1000 years ago.

Guru Nanak was heavily influenced by Islam and Sikhism is his attempt to reconcile Islam and Hinduism. India was under Muslim rule centuries before Guru Nanak was born.

Merc I never said Sikhism was in India before Islam. In fact, Guru Nanak's coat had Quranic scriptures on it.

 

[Jive Jive Pakistan]

respect another religion that wat islam teaches so please repsct sikhism

 

[Hash]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_region

This should help you.

Islam first entered Subcontinent during 700 AD.

1300 years ago.

Sikhism has only existed 500 odd years.

As i said, I never claimed Sikhism was in India before Islam. I was refering to your pathetic 'how the hell is that possible' comment.

 

[Muddaser]

99.9% of Punjabis were once hindu.

65% of them converted to Islam during the Muslim rule under the Mughals and Afghans.

 

[zushy_786]

respect another religion that wat islam teaches so please repsct sikhism

Spot on !...Sadly, some posters don't want to respect other religions.....

 

[Mercenary]

As I said before go read some history of Mughals & Islam in Punjab.

I have but have you?

This is from the Sikhism Homepage which can be found here...

http://www.sikhs.org/guru1.htm

Guru Nanak was born in 1469

...here is an excerpt from that page which proves Muslims were in authority in Punjab and that Guru Nanak was heavily influenced by Islam...

The founder of the Sikh religion, Guru Nanak was born on April 15, 1469 in the Western Punjab village of Talwandi. He was born to a simple Hindu family. His father Mehta Kalian Das was an accountant in the employment of the local Muslim authorities. From an early age Guru Nanak made friends with both Hindu and Muslim children and was very inquisitive about the meaning of life. At the age of six he was sent to the village school teacher for schooling in reading and writing in Hindi and mathematics. He was then schooled in the study of Muslim literature and learned Persian and Arabic. He was an unusually gifted child who learned quickly and often question his teachers.

...the above is from the official Sikhism home page!!

Guru Nanak also went to Mecca...

On his fourth great journey in life Guru Nanak dressed in the blue garb of a Muslim pilgrim traveled to the west and visited Mecca, Medina and Baghdad.

 

[Muddaser]

As i said, I never claimed Sikhism was in India before Islam.

Read the link.

Its about Punjab.

Islam has been in Punjab before Sikhism ever existed.

Heck even the Punjab word came from Muslims.

Punj Ab is Persian for Five waters.

 

[Muddaser]

Punjab Timeline.

* 2500 - 1500 B.C.: Harappa Culture
* 2500 - 700 B.C.: Rigvedic Aryan Civilization
* 599 B.C.: Jainism
* 567 - 487 B.C.: Buddha
* 550 B.C - 600 A.D.: Buddhism remained prevalent
* 550 - 515 B.C.: Persian Invasion to west of Indus River
* 326 B.C.: Alexander's Invasion
* 322 - 298 B.C.: Chandragupta I Maurya Period
* 273 - 232 B.C.: Ashoka's Period
* 125 - 160 B.C.: Rise of the Sakas (Scythians known as Jat ancestors)
* 2 B.C.: Beginning of Rule of the Sakas.
* 45 - 180 A.D.: Rule of the Kushanas
* 320 - 550 A.D.: Gupta Empire
* 500 A.D.: Huns Invasion
* 510 - 650 A.D.: Vardhanas Era
* 647 - 1192 A.D.: Rajput Period
* 713 - 1300 A.D.: Muslim Invaders (Turks and Arabs) famous invaders like Mahmud Gori and Mahmud Ghazni
* 8th Century A.D.: Arabs capture Sind and Multan
* 1450 - 1700 A.D.: Mughal Rulers
* 1469 - 1539 A.D.: Guru Nanak Dev Ji (1st Sikh Guru)
* 1539 - 1675 A.D.: Period of 8 Sikh Gurus from Guru Angad Dev Ji to Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji
* 1675 - 1708 A.D.: Guru Gobind Singh Ji (10th Sikh Guru)
* 1699 A.D.: Birth of the Khalsa
* 1708 - 1715 A.D.: Conquests of Banda Bahadur
* 1716 - 1759 A.D.: Sikh struggle against Moghul Governors
* 1739 A.D.: Invasion of Nadir Shah
* 1748 -1769 A.D.: Ahmed Shah Abdali's nine invasions
* 1762 A.D.: 2nd Holocaust (Ghalughara) from Ahmed Shah's 6th invasion
* 1764 - 1799 A.D.: Rule of the Sikh Misls
* 1799 - 1839 A.D.: Rule by Maharaja Ranjit Singh
* 1849 A.D.: Annexation of Punjab
* 1849 - 1947 A.D.: British Rule
* 1947 A.D.: Partition of India thus Punjab into 2 parts the Eastern part became the Indian Punjab and the Western part the Pakistan Punjab
* 1966 A.D.: Punjab in India divided into 3 parts on Linguistic basis (Haryana, Himachal and Punjabi suba the present Punjab)
* 1984 A.D.: Operation Blue Star and its aftermath

 

[Hash]

yaar I include Punjab when I say India.

I was saying many people still converted to Islam afterwards....therefore your 'how the hell is that possible?' comment was ridiculous and pathetic. That is all I was saying. How difficult is it for you to understand such a basic point?

 

[Muddaser]

How exactly is my comment pathetic?

99% of Punjabi muslims ancestors were Hindu.

Same goes for the Sindhis.

Not SIKH which only came into existence 500 odd years ago.

Muslims have been in the subcontinent for 1300 years. Punjan included.

712 AD is the day Mohammed Bin Qasim set foot in Sindh. Years later the Mughals and Afghans were ruling the whole of India.

 

[irfan]

You should write 'Pakistan Studies' textbooks for Pak govt.
Many Sikhs converted to Islam, I suggest you read about Aurangzeb's rule.

Geez no one's saying that Sikhism came before Islam or that there were no Muslims in Punjab, just that Islam wasn't as prevalent.

Mughals didn't have control of all of India, in Punjab there were continual wars & battles to gain ascendancy. Previously, Mughal rulers had been quite secular & tolerant but Aurangzeb interperted Islam very strictly and was much more intolerant of non Muslims,thereby forcing many to convert.

 

[Tupac]

ok..let's clear this up once and for all.. Merc and Mudasser, don't talk about things unless you know what ur talkin about, aight?

Muslims were in India before Sikhs were, True. As for forcibly converting to Islam, this is a well known fact, and it's written in the Guru Granth Sahib....I think during Asa Di Vaar, which is within the first 300 pages..

anyways Sikhs battled fiercely with the Muslims in order to prevent this. Read the story of Guru Tegh Bahadur, who was held captive in Muslims clutches, and was presented with beef and the quran. Bravely, he refused both, and as a result, they chopped his head off. This why Sikhs celebrate his martrydom as a sign of self belief, izzat, and bravery. Guru Gobind Singh also fought many battled with Muslims, and won many, though in the end he himself was matryed.

Mudasser, you've got issues. The Guru Granth Sahib was written by all 10 gurus, not by a muslim. One more thing, Guru Nanak never converted to Islam...he was born a Hindu, and then he was Sikh all the way.

 

[Muddaser]

Tupac,

Go read up about Baba Farid.

 

[Muddaser]

http://www.the-south-asian.com/April2001/Sufis-wisdom against violence3.htm



Baba Farid's Life

Baba Farid was born on the on the first day of the month of Ramzaan in 1173 in the city of Kothiwal, near Dipalpur in Punjab. It is now called Pak Pattan; the ancient name has been recorded as Ajodhan. The city existed when Alexander invaded in 326 BC. It was an important metropolis on the Multan-Delhi route. The city is on the banks of the river Sutlej. People going across would usually wash [clean = pak] themselves at the ferry [pattan]. Hence the name Pak Pattan .The story goes that, the day Baba Farid was born, a holy man was consulted about the breaking of a fast. He advised that a great soul had been born in the house of Jamal-ud-din Suleiman and that the community could break the fast only when the infant suckled. It is said that the infant Baba Farid was fasting.

Baba Farid’s ancestors were from a town called Aush, south of Fergana [Babur’s hometown] south east of Andijan. Farid’s grandfather [Qadi Shuaib] left Kabul and took refuge in Lahore under the Ghaznavid Sultan in 1125. However the gay atmosphere of Lahore did not appeal to his nature and he moved to Kasur above 34 miles southeast of Lahore where the Sultan entrusted him to the Qadi [Kazi- a semi-religious administrator] position. Eventually he left and settled in Kothiwal leaving Kasur.

Farid’s father Jamal-ud-din Suleiman married the daughter of Sheikh Wajih-ud-din Khojendi called Qarsum Bibi [some say her name was Mariam]. Qarsum was a lady of great piety. According to legend it was she who influenced Farid to pray by placing small cubes of Shakar [brown sugar] under Farid’s prayer mat. One day it is said that although she did not place the Shakar, nevertheless there was a piece of Shakar under Farid’s mat.



Khwaja Bakhtiar Kaki was Baba Farid’s "Guru". He was influenced by the Hallaji and Wujjud doctrines, which are essentially spiritual in nature. Kaki met Moinuddin Chishti at Baghdad and being impressed by the man became his disciple. Chishti migrated to Delhi and Kaki followed him, staying for a while in Multan. Because of rivalry and jealousy between some other Sheikhs in Delhi, Moin-ud-din Chishti left for Ajmer.

The King at Delhi Balban welcomed Farid in Delhi and introduced him to his family; Balban’s daughter was married to Farid and the gifts for the marriage were distributed among the poor and needy [fakirs]. There is a town called Faridkot in Indian Punjab. Farid is truly the father of Punjabi literature. He died on the 5th of Moharram 1266. Baba Farid’s poetry was later to influence the Sikh religion and especially their Holy Book "Sri Guru Granth Sahib" by the founder Guru Nanak. Such was the universality of Baba Farid, the Sufi poet laureate from Punjab.

 

[irfan]

influencing & writing are entirely different things.

 

[Muddaser]

influencing & writing are entirely different things.

Not influenced but his entire scriptures and poems are in the guru granth sahib.

Half the book to be exact.

 

[irfan]

so what, sufism is probably closer to Sikhism than it is to Sharia Islam.

 

[Muddaser]

so what, sufism is probably closer to Sikhism than it is to Sharia Islam.

Wrong!

More like Sikhism came out of Sufism. A sect of Islam.

Sufism has existed long before Sikhism Kiddo.

 

[z10]

so what, sufism is probably closer to Sikhism than it is to Sharia Islam.

and this has to be the most irrelevant and ill judged conclusion that i've seen on this thread

 

[Muddaser]

Irfan has just proved he is a closet Indian.

What is Sharia Islam?

 

[irfan]

Wrong!

More like Sikhism came out of Sufism. A sect of Islam.

Sufism has existed long before Sikhism Kiddo.

so how did what i say contradict this?

 

[sy]

Not influenced but his entire scriptures and poems are in the guru granth sahib.

Half the book to be exact.

I asked a Sikh friend about this, and he confirmed that Baba Farid's writings are in the Guru Granth Sahib.

 

[Tupac]

Mudasser "BTW, half of the Sikh bible was written by a muslim."

The quote Mudasser pulls out "Baba Farid’s poetry was later to influence the Sikh religion and especially their Holy Book "Sri Guru Granth Sahib" by the founder Guru Nanak. Such was the universality of Baba Farid, the Sufi poet laureate from Punjab."

where the hell does it say that half the granthi was written by him? There are over 10000 pages in the granthi, with over 500 shabads and asas...please point out to me the work done by this man that's in the granthi...because he died in 1266, Sikhism was born after he died..so how did he write the book? and even if some of his poetry is used, how is it half??? let's go, bring some proof, come on

and you haven't even responded to my post about forcible conversions...so either put up or shut up

 

[Daoud]

Nadeem once said that his family was originally Sikh (not sure how far back though).

Im not sure how much respect a religion deserves when their doctrine says that they wont shave or cut their hair until muslims get driven out of the subcontinent. Having said that, I do have some Sikh friends and every Sikh I've known (which is like 3 or 4) are all very likeable and friendly people

 

[Aurangzeb]

it's like a bag of apples....you'll get a rough one now and then...this is true for muslims also, hindus, and christians

aurangazeb...do you mind keeping your shut when you have no idea what your talking about? How was sikhism "invented"?? btw most Sikhs do not carry hatred for what happened so many years ago to the gurus....in any case most of these deaths were avenged

guru nanak invented sikhism after observing the injustices of the hindu caste system...he wanted to create a religion devoid of caste...ironically, sikhism involved many castes as well...

 

[Muddaser]

Talking about forced conversions.

Did you know the largest muslim nation on the planet is Indonesia.

210 million muslims to be exact and not a single muslim soldier ever set foot in the country. Just muslim traders.

Forced conversions?

Typical hindu rubbish.

 

[z10]

it is widely rumoured that the Jutt bradri of muslims was once Sikh

and also the Butt bradri

 

[irfan]

and this has to be the most irrelevant and ill judged conclusion that i've seen on this thread

go study the similarities between sufism & sikhism.

 

[Muddaser]

it is widely rumoured that the Jutt bradri of muslims was once Sikh

and also the Butt bradri

There are more Muslim jatts than the Entire Sikh popualtion put together.

Jatt is a clan, has nothing to do with Sikhs or any religion.

Same goes for Butt / Bhatt.

 

[Aurangzeb]

Aurangzeb,
What's your problem ?? If you don't like the religion then fine.....But that doesn't mean you have to spew rubbish about Sikhism or the people.....First you attack Ismailies and now this.....Utterely pathetic....

how does my post imply that i don't "like" the religion?...anyone who holds bitterness for something that happened a hundred years ago is pathetic...you still mad at that ismaili episode? that was ages ago...i apologized for that and explained what i meant...jeez...some people...

 

[Nakhuda]

I've generally no probs with the Sikhs but when they start bad-mouthing Islam in order to glorify their faith then it becomes a different issue.
Respect to Guru Nanak but he simply can't be compared to the Prophet of Islam(saw).Respect to the Guru Granth Sahib too but even Sikhs openly admit that its not a revealed book.Sikhs were probably forcefully converted which in Islam is totally wrong but most Mughals didn't understand the message of Islam themselves but were totally ignorant.
If Sikhs are gonna wait to cut their hair until Muslims are expelled from the subcontinent or all are killed then they'll be waiting forever,even in India today Muslims easily outnumber Sikhs.I did mention to my Sikh friends that despite many Sikhs being Anti-Muslim/Islam its strange how they have no problems in living and working in Muslim lands like Dubai and Malaysia.

 

[Aurangzeb]

because they keep it to themselves...they don't have "i hate muslims" stamped on their forhead...

 

[irfan]

There's alot of Afghan Sikhs as well.

 

[Aurangzeb]

Sikhs didnt have time to cut their hair since they spent most their time in the jungles hiding from the Mughals.

Eventually became a religious thing to them.

 

[Ayubi]

ok..let's clear this up once and for all.. Merc and Mudasser, don't talk about things unless you know what ur talkin about, aight?

Muslims were in India before Sikhs were, True. As for forcibly converting to Islam, this is a well known fact, and it's written in the Guru Granth Sahib....I think during Asa Di Vaar, which is within the first 300 pages..

anyways Sikhs battled fiercely with the Muslims in order to prevent this. Read the story of Guru Tegh Bahadur, who was held captive in Muslims clutches, and was presented with beef and the quran. Bravely, he refused both, and as a result, they chopped his head off. This why Sikhs celebrate his martrydom as a sign of self belief, izzat, andi bravery. Guru Gobind Singh also fought many battled with Muslims, and won many, though in the end he himself was matryed.

Mudasser, you've got issues. The Guru Granth Sahib was written by all 10 gurus, not by a muslim. One more thing, Guru Nanak never converted to Islam...he was born a Hindu, and then he was Sikh all the way.

That is ridiculous! How does that clear anything up? It just gives the Sikh perspective.

Saying that Sikhs were forced to convert to Islam & it's a well known fact, why? Well cos it says so in Guru Granth Sahib. Well I'm sorry, but that's only gonna convince another Sikh.

The fact that Sikhs are from hindu lineage, one could argue that your ancesters were forcibly converted to Sikhism in the first place. So your point is invalid unless you bring some real evidence.

No disrespect or anything but when you make such huge allegations about Muslims butchering Sikhs you really need to back them up properly rather than refer to your own scriptures!

 

[Daoud]

thats offensive mate.

It was probably uncalled for but you do know why they wear turbans dont you?

 

[Muddaser]

There's alot of Afghan Sikhs as well.

But they arent Pathan.

 

[Muddaser]

It was probably uncalled for but you do know why they wear turbans dont you?

No offense meant but read the history books.

It should explain exactly why the mighty Sikhs dont cut their hair.

 

[Aurangzeb]

It was probably uncalled for but you do know why they wear turbans dont you?

because they have long hair and they need something to tie it?

 

[Daoud]

No offense meant but read the history books.

It should explain exactly why the mighty Sikhs dont cut their hair.

Muddy, the second part of what I said was directed to Elan, not you

 

[Tupac]

guru nanak invented sikhism after observing the injustices of the hindu caste system...he wanted to create a religion devoid of caste...ironically, sikhism involved many castes as well...

listen,Guru Nanak discovered Sikhism when he fell into a large lake and did not resurface for 3 days. Waheguru came to him and began preaching to him (shades of judiasm and Islam here, didn't Allah preach to the prophet Muhammad?), and from there Guru Nanak began preaching to the people...so pray tell how how was Sikhism invented? Because in your mind, if Sikhism was invented, then so was Islam.

 

[Mercenary]

A Reminder!

This is PakPassion and not some other forum, extend the same respect to Sikhism as you would expect the Sikhs to extend towards Islam. If the Sikhs dont do that then that's their loss!

So if you cant avoid making an offensive/derogatory remark then dont bother posting in this thread!

 

[Shayan]

my best mate is sikh. The only minor problem i have is that when sikhs are in a group, they describe themselves as 'Indians'. When i'm with a group of Pakistanis, i describe us as 'Asians' rather than Pakistani's. It just becomes a bit awkward when i'm with a group of sikhs and they descibe themselves as 'Indians', you know what i mean.

 

[Somali Pirate]

It was probably uncalled for but you do know why they wear turbans dont you?

yeah so?

how's living in the jungle running from mughals got to do with this?

 

[Tupac]

http://www.sikhs.org/guru9.htm

Mudasser, here you go, and now that you've learnt your lesson, refrain from making stupid comments on Sikh soliders that will have more himmat and izzat then you will ever have

particularly this "Since coming to power by imprisoning his father and killing his two brothers, Aurengzeb had been consolidating his power base. After ten years he now began to apply his power throughout the country. Aurengzeb was an orthodox Muslim who dreamed of purging India of all ‘infidels’ and converting it into a land of Islam. Aurengzeb had no tolerance for other religions and proceeded on a brutal campaign of repression. Famous Hindu temples throughout the country were demolished and mosques built in their place. Hindu idols were placed in the steps of mosques to be trodden on by the feet of Muslim pilgrims. Aurangzeb issued a number of harsh decrees. In 1665 he forbade Hindus to display illuminations at Diwali festivals. In 1668 he forbade Hindu Jatras, in 1671 he issued an order that only Muslims could be landlords of crown lands, and called upon provincial Viceroys to dismiss all Hindu clerks. In 1669 he issued a general order calling upon all governors of all provinces to destroy with a willing hand the schools and temples of the infidels; and they were told to put a stop to the teachings and practicing of idolatrous forms of worship. In 1674 lands held by Hindus in Gujarat, in religious grants were all confiscated."

and this "Guru Tegh Bahadur was subjected to many cruelties, he was kept in an iron cage and starved for many days. The Guru was made to watch as Bhai Mati Das the devoted Sikh was tied between two pillars and his body split in two by being sawn alive. Bhai Dyala was boiled alive in a cauldron of boiling water and Bhat Sati Das was wrapped in cotton wool and set on fire. The Guru bore these cruelties without flinching or showing any anger or distress. Finally on November 11, 1675 Guru Tegh Bahadur was publicly beheaded with the sword of the executioner as he prayed. The Gurus body was left in the dust as no one dared to pick up the body for fear of the emperors reprisal. A severe storm swept through the city and under the cover of darkness a Sikh named Bhai Jaita managed to collect the Guru’s sacred head and carried it off to Anandpur Sahib to the Guru’s son. Another Sikh Bhai Lakhi Shah who had a cart, was able to smuggle the Gurus headless body to his house. Since a public funeral would be too dangerous, Bhai Lakhi Shah cremated the body by setting his house on fire. Meanwhile the head was taken to the grief stricken young Guru Gobind Singh and the widow Mata Gujari. On November 16, 1675 at Anandpur Sahib, a pyre of sandalwood was constructed, sprinkled with roses and the head of Guru Tegh Bahadur was cremated by young Guru Gobind Singh."

 

[Muddaser]

Merc, why was my post deleted?

What I said was absolutely true.

Go and check it out on google.

 

[Mercenary]

listen, when you have no idea of what your talking about, it's best to keep your mouth firmly shut. Otherwise, you look like an idiot. Guru Nanak discovered Sikhism when he fell into a large lake and did not resurface for 3 days. Waheguru came to him and began preaching to him (shades of judiasm and Islam here, didn't Allah preach to the prophet Muhammad?), and from there Guru Nanak began preaching to the people...so pray tell how how was Sikhism invented? Because in your twisted mind, if Sikhism was invented, then so was Islam.

By invented I think he meant it isnt one of the Abrahamic religions!

 

[Muddaser]

yeah so?

how's living in the jungle running from mughals got to do with this?

Go and type "Sikhs Jungles" on google.

 

[Daoud]

yeah so?

how's living in the jungle running from mughals got to do with this?

His post may have come across as offensive, but the whole idea of them not cutting their hair is offensive to Muslims

 

[Mercenary]

Merc, why was my post deleted?

What I said was absolutely true.

Go and check it out on google.

A lot of things r true Mudasser but in this case I think it's best we live that sort of info on the backburner. A bit like the way people go on about Ghulam Ahmed dying in the restroom.

It's true but lets debate the theology!

 

[Muddaser]

your post was offensive.

Offensive or not.

Factually true.