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So does anyone have any doubts that Virat Kohli will be a better Test captain than MS Dhoni?

mithun_minhas said:
Don't why everyone is blaming Indian fast bowlers. Yes they are expensive.

But if you look at it, even Mitch JOhnson was expensive and looked average at best. Ryan Harris looked like a part time trundler at times. Siddle was the worst of the lot.

The pitch was dreadful for fast bowling. It had a bit of bounce and batsmen who could play drives and pull shots well made merry on it.

Captains were basically clueless. Only Lyon exploited the bounce and he was rewarded. He had the right kind of bowling for the pitch.

With MSD and may be Aswin in place of Karn, India could have even won the match.

Imagine 90 runs to go and Kohli and MSD were at the crease with Ashwin to follow. India would have probably won the match.

When Rohit got out, I knew India are done. Saha followed by Karn and others are ot good enough to even score 20 runs.
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I agree.

But reg Saha - He looked comfortable. Got a wrong decision in the first innings. Looked brilliant in the second but got carried away.
 
junaid.ahmed said:
what he has done apart of his own innings

indeed his centuries in both innings are true classy but using the bowlers is another thing which captain has to do
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This.

People are jumping on Kohli banwagon just because Kohli the batsman did well. It is just one test match, and remember Dhoni also had a great start to his captaincy. Let's not mix Kohli the Test batsman ( hasn't done anything special before the twin hundreds in Adelaide) and Kohli the captain ( lost the match when victory was within reach).
 
siddharth said:
You are not doing any justice to ur user name by this overreaction.overrating Kohlis captaincy.
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I didn't refer to you bro.

Its Tusker with whom I have had big debates.

Reg Kohli - I have said it a million times and let me repeat it again:

Kohli as a tactician is UNKNOWN. Yes, UNKNOWN.

But he looks to be a better captain (mindset, pacers, bowler workload management, etc) than Dhoni who has gone stale.
 
I didn't watch a single ball in the Adelaide test. Can anyone highlight any good captaincy moves by Kohli?
 
CricketCartoons said:
I didn't watch a single ball in the Adelaide test. Can anyone highlight any good captaincy moves by Kohli?
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Sample set is low. As I said, we will know more about his tactics in the future tests cos in the test pacers from both sides got carted around.

Aussie pacers who are from another planet compared to ours got carted the SAME way like ours.

The difference was Lyon who picked 12 out of 20 wickets. He bowled well and we batted like phattu against him.

As for Kohli - He wants to win. His attitude itself is a breath of fresh air.

Dhoni's captaincy overseas these days is 0. Even if you score 1, you are a better captain.

Kohli scored 1.
 
CricketCartoons said:
I didn't watch a single ball in the Adelaide test. Can anyone highlight any good captaincy moves by Kohli?
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I don't recall anything brilliant to be honest but then I saw only the last 3 days. Anyway, it's early days for him.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Sample set is low. As I said, we will know more about his tactics in the future tests cos in the test pacers from both sides got carted around.

Aussie pacers who are from another planet compared to ours got carted the SAME way like ours.

The difference was Lyon who picked 12 out of 20 wickets. He bowled well and we batted like phattu against him.

As for Kohli - He wants to win. His attitude itself is a breath of fresh air.

Dhoni's captaincy overseas these days is 0. Even if you score 1, you are a better captain.

Kohli scored 1.
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How did Kohli score 1. That is what I want to know. Yes, Kohli the Test batsman shone like he never had before. But can you give evidence on what Kohli the captain did to score 1?

Just wanting to win is not good enough. India lost the match from a winning situation.
 
So I get it. This is more to do with Dhoni not being a good test captain, than Kohli being a good captain. So let us be honest and discuss the flaws in Dhoni's captaincy, instead of using them to make Kohli look good when he did nothing extraordinary as a Test captain.
 
CricketCartoons said:
How did Kohli score 1. That is what I want to know. Yes, Kohli the Test batsman shone like he never had before. But can you give evidence on what Kohli the captain did to score 1?

Just wanting to win is not good enough. India lost the match from a winning situation.
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He went for the chase bro.

Even the most super aggressive captain in India wouldn't have had the guts to do it.

His statement:

Virat Kohli comes up and rubs his eyes a touch. Says it was a great game of cricket, proud of the boys, the kind of character they showed in tough situations it was a really good effort. Pretty pleased with the way we played, but Australia did better. Told the guys last night that whatever target it was we were going to chase it. I believed in my ability, Lyon bowled the ball in the right areas. If me and Vijay added about 40 runs there, the game would have been different. You see one opening and the team capitalises, and that's what Autsralia did. I was trying ot hit it much more in front of square. But it was one of those mistakes I'll look back and say I could have done better, Backing myself through the Test and no regrets. Have to play with passion and commitment and I;d like to congratulate the whole Australia team and actually participating here after all that happened in the last 10 days
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/austral.../754737.html?innings=4;page=2;view=commentary

He didn't over bowl any bowlers like Dhoni did.

His team selection was bad and that deserves blame. But some pointed out that it COULD have been that everything is not his say.

If Dhoni was there, he would have asked us to play for draw and we would have got all out by tea for a soul crushing loss.

I just want a captain who doesn't screw up. Its ok if he isn't a great tactician.

Still early days but Kohli will be better than Dhoni overseas (which is not an achievement to be honest but something that Indian cricket needs).
 
CricketCartoons said:
So I get it. This is more to do with Dhoni not being a good test captain, than Kohli being a good captain. So let us be honest and discuss the flaws in Dhoni's captaincy, instead of using them to make Kohli look good when he did nothing extraordinary as a Test captain.
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Yes. Exactly that.

This thread was NOT about Kohli's praise but about him being better than current captain Dhoni.

I haven't made 1 comment about Kohli's tactical ability in this whole thread.

Kohli's aggressiveness has won a lot of hearts though.
 
CricketCartoons said:
How did Kohli score 1. That is what I want to know. Yes, Kohli the Test batsman shone like he never had before. But can you give evidence on what Kohli the captain did to score 1?

Just wanting to win is not good enough.
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I think some Indians are too harsh on Dhoni. Is not a good captain when playing overseas. But just to put it in context. If Pujara or Kohli had scored some runs in Eng series, Indians would have probably even pulled off a win there. Indians were 1-0 up after 2 tests. Everyone jumps on Dhoni but when batsmen don't score any runs then you can't do much.

Anyway, in my opinion, it's time for Indians to give some one young an extended run as a captain. They should give 5-6 series to Kohli and see how well he develops.
 
Buffet said:
I think some Indians are too harsh on Dhoni. Is not a good captain when playing overseas. But just to put it in context. If Pujara or Kohli had scored some runs in Eng series, Indians would have probably even pulled off a win there. Indians were 1-0 up after 2 tests. Everyone jumps on Dhoni but when batsmen don't score any runs then you can't do much.

Anyway, in my opinion, it's time for Indians to give some one young an extended run as a captain. They should give 5-6 series to Kohli and see how well he develops.
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Bro, trust me its not the case. I don't blame Dhoni for our batsmen's ineptness. Or even the bowler's ineptness.

Southampton move. Still that ranks as one of the biggest blunders ever. The moment it was told that Dhoni would go with 7 batsman, I wrote that we have a chance to lose. Right after the Lord's win.

Its there in PP now.

Dhoni tried to take the defensive route and we paid the price. Cruelly.

What happened next is something we all know.

He has become a horrible captain.

Maybe Kohli is horrible too but as of now, looks like he could be something.
 
Using the bad bowlers, bad team logic, I can defend anyone.

Even Sachin as captain.

In the 90's, no captain in the world could have won overseas with the team we had. Even Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh, Clive Lloyd - none of them could have saved us.

So Sachin should not be considered a bad captain?

When a team loses, it does so cos it performs badly. If that is the main argument, then no captain can be held accountable.

The point is we need to go beyond team, results and see.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Bro, trust me its not the case. I don't blame Dhoni for our batsmen's ineptness. Or even the bowler's ineptness.

Southampton move. Still that ranks as one of the biggest blunders ever. The moment it was told that Dhoni would go with 7 batsman, I wrote that we have a chance to lose. Right after the Lord's win.

Its there in PP now.

Dhoni tried to take the defensive route and we paid the price. Cruelly.

What happened next is something we all know.

He has become a horrible captain.

Maybe Kohli is horrible too but as of now, looks like he could be something.
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There is absolutely no doubt that Dhoni is defensive captain when leading his team outside India but I think he gets over the top criticism at times.

I would have actually simply allowed Kohli to captain in the next 3 tests and subsequent home series. Dhoni is anyway not going to to play for more than 1-2 years. If Kohli doesn't work then try some one else but it's not a bad time to start.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yes. Exactly that.

This thread was NOT about Kohli's praise but about him being better than current captain Dhoni.

I haven't made 1 comment about Kohli's tactical ability in this whole thread.

Kohli's aggressiveness has won a lot of hearts though.
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So how is he a better captain than Dhoni when you havent added anything about his tactical ability. Just looks like an emotional response based on dislike for Dhoni. If you want to diss Dhoni, fair enough. But then why use it to make Kohli look good when you don't even want to discuss how he is better.
 
CricketCartoons said:
So how is he a better captain than Dhoni when you havent added anything about his tactical ability. Just looks like an emotional response based on dislike for Dhoni. If you want to diss Dhoni, fair enough. But then why use it to make Kohli look good when you don't even want to discuss how he is better.
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I don't dislike Dhoni.

He is my hero in ODIs.

I dislike his captaincy in Tests.

Kohli is aggressive. Wants to go for the win. Backs real pacers who are needed to win you games overseas.

Signs are good.

The reason this thread was made is bcos Dhoni as captain is NOT our only option as some say.
 
[MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION] - Tactical ability is just one aspect of captaincy.

Ability to inspire, lead, picking the right team, pacer workload management, etc all factor in.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I don't dislike Dhoni.

He is my hero in ODIs.

I dislike his captaincy in Tests.

Kohli is aggressive. Wants to go for the win. Backs real pacers who are needed to win you games overseas.

Signs are good.

The reason this thread was made is bcos Dhoni as captain is NOT our only option as some say.
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Just being aggressive is not good enough. Wanting to go for win is also not good enough. A draw is always better than a loss. India were in a winning situation. When wickets started falling what did Kohli the captain do? Also why did Kohli the captain pick a newbie like Karn instead of Ashwin, weakening the batting and bowling both. It is just the Halo effect to extending the outstanding batting by Kohli to extend it to his captaincy.

You want to criticize Dhoni, fair enough. But why bring Kohli into the thread when he hasn't done anything great as a captain. Giving him 1 and Dhoni 0, just because Kohli talks about winning is like giving Nobel to Obama just because he talked about peace.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
[MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION] - Tactical ability is just one aspect of captaincy.

Ability to inspire, lead, picking the right team, pacer workload management, etc all factor in.
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So whom did he inspire. I only see Murali Vijay doing well. Others failed. So where was the inspiration.

Do you think he picked the right team, by dropping Ashwin, brining Karn and keeping Rohit?

You think Kohli did better than pacer workload management than Dhoni does? Does Dhoni overbowl a few pacers and underbowl others?
 
CricketCartoons said:
Just being aggressive is not good enough. Wanting to go for win is also not good enough. A draw is always better than a loss. India were in a winning situation. When wickets started falling what did Kohli the captain do? Also why did Kohli the captain pick a newbie like Karn instead of Ashwin, weakening the batting and bowling both. It is just the Halo effect to extending the outstanding batting by Kohli to extend it to his captaincy.

You want to criticize Dhoni, fair enough. But why bring Kohli into the thread when he hasn't done anything great as a captain. Giving him 1 and Dhoni 0, just because Kohli talks about winning is like giving Nobel to Obama just because he talked about peace.
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Dhoni got COUNTLESS tests.

Kohli got 1 test and he looks good.

Aggressiveness is not good enough is something I agree.

But in this case, we JUST DON'T have the quality to defend 1 whole day. Lyon and the rough would have been too much. Kohli himself said somewhere that dead batting Lyon with the rough would have made you lose wickets. You need to attack to stay. SA which defended in Adelaide last year didn't have to face Lyon with this rough. Even if they did, they have the quality to defend and eek out a draw.

Kohli picked the wrong team and I said he deserves blame for that if he has a big say in it. Team selection is a big issue. Stand in captains may or may not get their say,. If he did, he deserves blame and I did diss Kohli when I saw the names for this Test.

As for approach, there was a heaven and earth difference when we went for the win and we could see that.

If Rahane was there (got a wrong decision), Kohli could go for a draw.

With ***** playing like he would get out every ball and Saha getting too excited, Kohli's approach was 100% right.

If you watched the final innings, you would know bro.

After a point it became like either it would be Australian win or Indian win. No chance of draw.
 
CricketCartoons said:
So whom did he inspire. I only see Murali Vijay doing well. Others failed. So where was the inspiration.

Do you think he picked the right team, by dropping Ashwin, brining Karn and keeping Rohit?

You think Kohli did better than pacer workload management than Dhoni does? Does Dhoni overbowl a few pacers and underbowl others?
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Wrote a lot about this during England series bro.

Dhoni is the worst in that.

Kohli didn't screw up in these aspects but more is needed.

As of now, he has scored 1 while Dhoni is 0 in overseas tests.
 
Let us wait to see what Kohli brings as a captain. A captain should not judged by the win/loss column (because then Dhoni is the best Indian captain ever), but how good he was at using his resources and extracting the best from his players. Kohli is just one test match old. Using just one test match to give the judgement that he is better than Dhoni is just based on emotions. Let us wait and watch instead of using such opportunities to diss the players we don't like.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Let us wait to see what Kohli brings as a captain. A captain should not judged by the win/loss column (because then Dhoni is the best Indian captain ever), but how good he was at using his resources and extracting the best from his players. Kohli is just one test match old. Using just one test match to give the judgement that he is better than Dhoni is just based on emotions. Let us wait and watch instead of using such opportunities to diss the players we don't like.
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Agreed.

He looks very likely is the point.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Wrote a lot about this during England series bro.

Dhoni is the worst in that.

Kohli didn't screw up in these aspects but more is needed.

As of now, he has scored 1 while Dhoni is 0 in overseas tests.
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You are just giving arbitrary scores and passing it off as facts. You just think Kohli is better than Dhoni just because you don't like Dhoni's style of captaincy. That is fine. But please don't give these scored that Kohli is 1 and Dhoni is 0. Adds zilch to the discussion.
 
Kohli may not be the best captaincy choice for India, only time will tell this. But he is definitely a better choice compared to Dhoni.

Dhoni should not be a test captain for many reasons. I have listed some of them below.

1. A captain should be a leader. He must have cricketing skills, he cannot be a great motivator if he himself does not have the skills. Most great captains were also great cricket players. When playing outside India, Dhoni has neither batting nor bowling skills - so with what skill will he motivate his team? With his keeping? He isn't a great keeper either. Kohli, on the other hand is a front line batsman. He has shown repeatedly how he can single-handedly wield the fortunes of the team with his batting.

2. The defeat in the 2011 English series has mentally scarred Dhoni. He has never been the same again since this epic thrashing. Ever since these defeats, he has become a completely defensive captain, and he thinks this is a good tactic for saving matches. But Dhoni does not realize that he is getting whitewashed time and again because he has never bothered to take the challenge to the opposition. Dhoni never thinks about taking 20 wickets, his ploy is to wait for the opposition to pile a bucket load of runs and declare. Test matches are not won this way.

3. Dhoni's tactics are poor. Often he spreads the field when a wicket has fallen, and sometimes takes in form bowlers out of the attack. The opposition batsman only has to hit a couple of fours in an over and Dhoni now only bothers to stop runs and wickets are a second priority to him. This strategy neither fetches wickets nor stops runs - the opposition routinely makes 4-4.5 runs per over against India completely making a mockery of Dhoni's defensive strategies, so called defensive strategies that do not even contain leave alone take wickets.

4. Dhoni is not interested in test cricket. He publicly announced that he would retire from tests in 2015 in the middle of a disastrous tour. He once claimed that a loss in a WC T20 match upset him more than the series of test whitewashes he suffered. That is the importance he gives to test cricket. Why would you want him to captain a test side?
 
IndianWillow said:
Kohli may not be the best captaincy choice for India, only time will tell this. But he is definitely a better choice compared to Dhoni.

Dhoni should not be a test captain for many reasons. I have listed some of them below.

1. A captain should be a leader. He must have cricketing skills, he cannot be a great motivator if he himself does not have the skills. Most great captains were also great cricket players. When playing outside India, Dhoni has neither batting nor bowling skills - so with what skill will he motivate his team? With his keeping? He isn't a great keeper either. Kohli, on the other hand is a front line batsman. He has shown repeatedly how he can single-handedly wield the fortunes of the team with his batting.

2. The defeat in the 2011 English series has mentally scarred Dhoni. He has never been the same again since this epic thrashing. Ever since these defeats, he has become a completely defensive captain, and he thinks this is a good tactic for saving matches. But Dhoni does not realize that he is getting whitewashed time and again because he has never bothered to take the challenge to the opposition. Dhoni never thinks about taking 20 wickets, his ploy is to wait for the opposition to pile a bucket load of runs and declare. Test matches are not won this way.

3. Dhoni's tactics are poor. Often he spreads the field when a wicket has fallen, and sometimes takes in form bowlers out of the attack. The opposition batsman only has to hit a couple of fours in an over and Dhoni now only bothers to stop runs and wickets are a second priority to him. This strategy neither fetches wickets nor stops runs - the opposition routinely makes 4-4.5 runs per over against India completely making a mockery of Dhoni's defensive strategies, so called defensive strategies that do not even contain leave alone take wickets.

4. Dhoni is not interested in test cricket. He publicly announced that he would retire from tests in 2015 in the middle of a disastrous tour. He once claimed that a loss in a WC T20 match upset him more than the series of test whitewashes he suffered. That is the importance he gives to test cricket. Why would you want him to captain a test side?
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Mike Brearley says Hi. Was a poor batsman with no century yet one of the finest captains. Tendulkar says Hi too. Was the best cricketer in his team yet could not motivate his players.

Dhoni is defensive. Agreed. Has an awful overseas record. Yes. But how does that make Kohli a better captain. Even in his solitary test he had to wait for Australia to declare, not once but twice. The same thing you don't like in Dhoni.

All your posts does is to say why Dhoni is not a good captain. Doesn't say why Kohli is better than him. At least be honest and say that Kohli needs a longer run to be judged as a captain.
 
^^ This. I think SIF is sold out on Kohli. My only advice to him is that captaincy skills of Either dhoni or kohli mean a jack if india don't really have bowlers to take 20 wickets overseas. This is the real issue, not the captaincy. So get some perspective please.
 
mithun_minhas said:
Don't why everyone is blaming Indian fast bowlers. Yes they are expensive.

But if you look at it, even Mitch JOhnson was expensive and looked average at best. Ryan Harris looked like a part time trundler at times. Siddle was the worst of the lot.

The pitch was dreadful for fast bowling. It had a bit of bounce and batsmen who could play drives and pull shots well made merry on it.

Captains were basically clueless. Only Lyon exploited the bounce and he was rewarded. He had the right kind of bowling for the pitch.

With MSD and may be Aswin in place of Karn, India could have even won the match.

Imagine 90 runs to go and Kohli and MSD were at the crease with Ashwin to follow. India would have probably won the match.

When Rohit got out, I knew India are done. Saha followed by Karn and others are ot good enough to even score 20 runs.
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Yeah, that's all India needs to win overseas. Hindsight + inclement weather + a team declaring twice with the bowlers taking a grand total of 12 wickets between them

:yk2
 
Kohli is a better choice than Dhoni, only because Dhoni is an absolutely useless test captain, probably among the worst India has ever seen. Simply a change of attitude shows how close a team can get to winning.

But let's be honest - Australia declared TWICE in this game... India's performance was still just as pathetic as it was in matches under Dhoni... It's just more refreshing to see a team lose giving a fight, vs a team losing via meek surrender.
 
filthyfulltoss said:
Kohli is a better choice than Dhoni, only because Dhoni is an absolutely useless test captain, probably among the worst India has ever seen. Simply a change of attitude shows how close a team can get to winning.

But let's be honest - Australia declared TWICE in this game... India's performance was still just as pathetic as it was in matches under Dhoni... It's just more refreshing to see a team lose giving a fight, vs a team losing via meek surrender.
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Couldn't have said it better. The fact remains that everyone is glorifying the attitude of the new captain and the team (and tbf rightfully) but fact remains that the bowling is still useless,Batting against spin needs a lot to be desired,Our spinners overseas are next to cr*p and finally no matter what you say, the final score remain 5-0 (Ind vs Aus in Aus).

All I can say is under Dhoni, India was always a bad loser. Under Kohli , we were good losers who showed some fight. Alas, a good loser is also a loser.

It's a team game and tbh, I think the only way we can win abroad is if we have 11 Kohli's in the team.
 
filthyfulltoss said:
Yeah, that's all India needs to win overseas. Hindsight + inclement weather + a team declaring twice with the bowlers taking a grand total of 12 wickets between them

:yk2
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Aussie fast bowlers also took just 8 wickets!! And one of them was an umpiring error.

Lyon took the majority of wickets.

Our spinner wasnt up to the task.

All that declaring wouldnt have mattered if the collapse at the end hadn't happened
 
CricketCartoons said:
Mike Brearley says Hi. Was a poor batsman with no century yet one of the finest captains. Tendulkar says Hi too. Was the best cricketer in his team yet could not motivate his players.

Dhoni is defensive. Agreed. Has an awful overseas record. Yes. But how does that make Kohli a better captain. Even in his solitary test he had to wait for Australia to declare, not once but twice. The same thing you don't like in Dhoni.

All your posts does is to say why Dhoni is not a good captain. Doesn't say why Kohli is better than him. At least be honest and say that Kohli needs a longer run to be judged as a captain.
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Dhoni has gone stale as a captain. Should hand over the reins - he's been a great captain for India for many years but captaincy wears you out, especially with 1 billion critics.
 
Random Aussie said:
Dhoni has gone stale as a captain. Should hand over the reins - he's been a great captain for India for many years but captaincy wears you out, especially with 1 billion critics.
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I am not disputing that. Dhoni needs to go for another captain. I am just disputing how people are making Kohli as a better captain with just one test. It is another thing to say that Kohli should be given the captaincy, quite another to say he is a better captain than Dhoni.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Yes, that is what I said. You don't like Dhoni's style of captaincy. And you posted a link to show Dhoni's style is defensive.

You are entitled to like whatever style of captaincy. But how is Kohli a better captain? Now don't say Kohli has scored 1 and Dhoni 0.
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Did you fully read the article bro?

It explains the situation and Dhoni's tactics.

Ok. Let me put it this way.

Kohli looks fresh and has a very good CHANCE of becoming a better captain than current Dhoni. And the MAIN PURPOSE of this thread was NOT to praise Dhoni but to point out that he IS NOT the only option for us as captain as some say.
 
Zeshan547 said:
^^ This. I think SIF is sold out on Kohli. My only advice to him is that captaincy skills of Either dhoni or kohli mean a jack if india don't really have bowlers to take 20 wickets overseas. This is the real issue, not the captaincy. So get some perspective please.
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Just bcos our bowlers are bad doesn't mean captaincy issue shouldn't be sorted.

We sort things simultaneously.

I NEVER said Kohli as captain would make us win in Aus or do crazy stuff.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Did you fully read the article bro?

It explains the situation and Dhoni's tactics.

Ok. Let me put it this way.

Kohli looks fresh and has a very good CHANCE of becoming a better captain than current Dhoni. And the MAIN PURPOSE of this thread was NOT to praise Dhoni but to point out that he IS NOT the only option for us as captain as some say.
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Then you should have created the thread as, it is time for Dhoni to go.

But instead you created saying there is no doubt that Kohli is a better captain than Dhoni.

Just because Kohli looks fresh and gave the right sound bites, doesnt mean we lose all perspective here.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Then you should have created the thread as, it is time for Dhoni to go.

But instead you created saying there is no doubt that Kohli is a better captain than Dhoni.

Just because Kohli looks fresh and gave the right sound bites, doesnt mean we lose all perspective here.
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He walked the talk bro.

Fine you have a point. Should have said "looks".
 
kohli is a decent batsman in tests, will be a mid 40's averaging batmen at best, nothing exceptional, lacks the hunger to bat long, however, virat likes the centre stage and like the yesteryear's of brash aussie mentality, he has entirely copied and modeled himself on ricky ponting and imitates overseas players from the ipl, like most of his teammates in the national side,unlike others he atleast has some substance to back up the foul attitude, it will be great if he finishes with 1/3 th of ponting's stature. He has a split personality, therefore isn't the right choice for captaincy, ideally ashwin should be our test captain but he is a mediocre bowler, that leaves pujara as the best choice,better batsmen, far better strategist.

The world has no place for bravhearts despite looking magical and exciting it is all about winners, if he continues to lose he will be discarded sooner than anyone could imagine. As long as he keeps performing he's fine at the slightest dip in form, the knives will be out. Undeniably, he has achieved greatness in the shorter format, hope it continues...
 
So Anyone Has Any Doubts That Kohli Will Be A Better Test Captain Than Dhoni?

sensible-indian-fan said:
He didn't over bowl any bowlers like Dhoni did.
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Erm,.... how could Kohli have over-bowled his bowlers when all he needed was 120 overs for Australia to make 517 runs, and then 69 overs for 290 runs? That´s not far from the ODI pace and even Dhoni manages them well in that format:)).

Coming back to the first innings, if my calculation is right, wouldn´t that have translated into 517 runs on the board by lunch on day two - if not for the rain?
 
DHONI183 said:
Erm,.... how could Kohli have over-bowled his bowlers when all he needed was 120 overs for Australia to make 517 runs, and then 69 overs for 290 runs? That´s not far from the ODI pace and even Dhoni manages them well in that format:)).

Coming back to the first innings, if my calculation is right, wouldn´t that have translated into 517 runs on the board by lunch on day two - if not for the rain?
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Yes.

We did the same to their pacers too.

The difference was Lyon. We played like phattu against him. :facepalm:

This thread was more about saying Dhoni isn't our only option as compared to Kohli being something good tactical bro. I know Kohli backs pacers but his tactics is yet to be known. Never made a comment about Kohli's tactical game.

As I always say, we Indians now need a captain who keeps things simple and doesn't screw up. Even if he is not great tactically it would help us.

Kohli looks be inspiring and can lead us in Tests. :)
 
So it was Kohli's decision to take Karn Sharma

"That was my personal decision," stand-in captain Virat Kohli said. "We felt that Karn was bowling better than the other two spinners at the time. In the warm-up games and the practice sessions as well. No regrets. A plan that I thought should work for us. He bowled pretty well for his first game. You have to give the guy some credit. Kept the fielders up as well. Kept challenging the Aussie batsmen, and if they were good enough they would have scored, which they did. So he is someone who will put out a challenge to the batsmen, and that's what I like."
Click to expand...

More than Karn Sharma's selection (which I can understand even though I won't do it personally), for me the biggest issue was Kohli selecting 4 bowlers and I would blame him for that.

1. I am genuinely scared if Ashwin and Jaddu were bowling worse than Karn in the nets.

2. In the first practice game (where both Ashwin and Karn bowled), I saw that at the top Karn was carted around and later on took 2 lower order wickets. Ashwin was steady and very economical (2rpo) but got a fluke wicket off a ball on the leg side. In the second practice game (Karn and Jaddu), Karn took more wickets but Jaddu didn't get much of a chance to bowl (just like Ashwin but he too took a wicket or two).

Still its not 100% sure that Karn won't play the second test. Karn is still in contention.

Two days before the second Test, India might not have made their mind up yet on ending the experiment. Karn and Ashwin were the two spinners bowling in the nets, still not ruling out a shot at redemption, although Ashwin practised taking catches at first slip, which while not a sure indicator might hint at the change. If he is dropped, it is possible Karn might never play Test cricket again. It's possible he could come back by the time India reach Sydney. It's possible he might come back an improved bowler. It won't change the fact that in Adelaide he was thrown into the deep end without knowing the dangers of drowning. During that Test, his arms flurried again and again, but he couldn't stay afloat.
Click to expand...

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2014-15/content/story/810443.html
 
Picking a leggie in aus is not a bad ploy per se but i heard karn bowled some dollies.

We need someone with skills + mental toughness not just one of the two like amit & karn.

Maybe gopal, kuldeep or someone else may be able to take up the challenge. who knows
 
So Anyone Has Any Doubts That Kohli Will Be A Better Test Captain Than Dhoni?

sensible-indian-fan said:
Yes.

We did the same to their pacers too.

The difference was Lyon. We played like phattu against him. :facepalm:

This thread was more about saying Dhoni isn't our only option as compared to Kohli being something good tactical bro. I know Kohli backs pacers but his tactics is yet to be known. Never made a comment about Kohli's tactical game.

As I always say, we Indians now need a captain who keeps things simple and doesn't screw up. Even if he is not great tactically it would help us.

Kohli looks be inspiring and can lead us in Tests. :)
Click to expand...

I have since long been very critical of Dhoni´s captaincy in Test cricket, so I don´t doubt one bit that there are many Indians who are very happy and pleased with the fight that India showed in the match. I truly understand the sentiment. I was just more or less aiming to highlight how India´s bowling was as bad under Kohli as it used to be under Dhoni, if not worse.
 
DHONI183 said:
I have since long been very critical of Dhoni´s captaincy in Test cricket, so I don´t doubt one bit that there are many Indians who are very happy and pleased with the fight that India showed in the match. I truly understand the sentiment. I was just more or less aiming to highlight how India´s bowling was as bad under Kohli as it used to be under Dhoni, if not worse.
Click to expand...

But the pitch is different.

Saffers with Steyn got carted the same way.

Our batsmen carted Johnson and co around in the same way and Clarke the world's best captain was captaining.

So this match I won't look at tactics too much. If I do, no one would look good let alone Dhoni.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So it was Kohli's decision to take Karn Sharma



More than Karn Sharma's selection (which I can understand even though I won't do it personally), for me the biggest issue was Kohli selecting 4 bowlers and I would blame him for that.

1. I am genuinely scared if Ashwin and Jaddu were bowling worse than Karn in the nets.

2. In the first practice game (where both Ashwin and Karn bowled), I saw that at the top Karn was carted around and later on took 2 lower order wickets. Ashwin was steady and very economical (2rpo) but got a fluke wicket off a ball on the leg side. In the second practice game (Karn and Jaddu), Karn took more wickets but Jaddu didn't get much of a chance to bowl (just like Ashwin but he too took a wicket or two).

Still its not 100% sure that Karn won't play the second test. Karn is still in contention.



http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2014-15/content/story/810443.html
Click to expand...

India needs to decide what they want to do with Ashwin. If they feel that he is never going to improve overseas, why to even pick him for tests? It would be better if they would take another spinner who they feel might do better overseas. I would rather have him not selected at all for a tour when the team management has no faith in his bowling.
 
EliteCynic said:
Couldn't have said it better. The fact remains that everyone is glorifying the attitude of the new captain and the team (and tbf rightfully) but fact remains that the bowling is still useless,Batting against spin needs a lot to be desired,Our spinners overseas are next to cr*p and finally no matter what you say, the final score remain 5-0 (Ind vs Aus in Aus).

All I can say is under Dhoni, India was always a bad loser. Under Kohli , we were good losers who showed some fight. Alas, a good loser is also a loser.

It's a team game and tbh, I think the only way we can win abroad is if we have 11 Kohli's in the team.
Click to expand...

Or you can be a little more patient with the young team . These guys only started playing together since last year .
we where bad losers when we toured Aus and Eng with dead woods last time .
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
But the pitch is different.

Saffers with Steyn got carted the same way.

Our batsmen carted Johnson and co around in the same way and Clarke the world's best captain was captaining.

So this match I won't look at tactics too much. If I do, no one would look good let alone Dhoni.
Click to expand...

Did you watch us bowl ?
We gave 800+ runs taking just 12 wickets in the match only cos the pitch was flat ?
 
jusarrived said:
Or you can be a little more patient with the young team . These guys only started playing together since last year .
we where bad losers when we toured Aus and Eng with dead woods last time .
Click to expand...

Don't get it...Players like Rohit might be young for the test team but made debut at the same time as Kohli. The team should be looking up to players like Vijay, Rohit and Kohli. The other players like Rahane, Pujara, Dhawan and the bowlers I agree as they haven't played much in any format.
 
jusarrived said:
Did you watch us bowl ?
We gave 800+ runs taking just 12 wickets in the match only cos the pitch was flat ?
Click to expand...

Adelaide is always a high scoring pitch. In 2003 in spite of both teams scoring 500+, it produced a result. Same here. The bowling in second innings was more disappointing as we should have made is difficult for them to score. We cannot have Aaron and Shami in the same team. Both go for too many runs and with Karn Sharma added to the mix, we are signing up for disaster. Ishant alone bowling economically is not going to build any pressure on the Aussies. We need Bhuvi ASAP, he will give us the much needed control with the ball and add some spine to the tail.
 
I do. Kohli needs to be tested more. Dhoni has been a good captain for India, one of their best, its going to take a lot more than a single innings for Kohli to show that he'll end up a better leader than him.
 
So Anyone Has Any Doubts That Kohli Will Be A Better Test Captain Than Dhoni?

Kohli is a very Ganguly type character: aggressive, not shy to look into the opposition´s eyes, very emotional on the field, ready to fight fire with fire - the type of guy that the media and the writers love, and so do many fans. One thing I know is that he will be admired all over India, irrespective of whether he manages to win anything or not. He will be seen as a great leader perhaps by the time he would retire.

sensible-indian-fan said:
But the pitch is different.

Saffers with Steyn got carted the same way.

Our batsmen carted Johnson and co around in the same way and Clarke the world's best captain was captaining.

So this match I won't look at tactics too much. If I do, no one would look good let alone Dhoni.
Click to expand...

The Adelaide pitch can be cruel on bowlers, no doubt about that. I have got no agenda to be downing Kohli for every breath breathed, so fair enough. But the biggest question here is the current Indian generation batsmen´s inability to handle spin bowling, that too on pitches that aren´t most famous for assisting spinners? First Moon Ali, now Nathan Lyon, and if we want to go a bit back than that, then remember how Monty Panesar and Graeme Swann bamboozled India back in 2012.
 
DHONI183 said:
The Adelaide pitch can be cruel on bowlers, no doubt about that. I have got no agenda to be downing Kohli for every breath breathed, so fair enough. But the biggest question here is the current Indian generation batsmen´s inability to handle spin bowling, that too on pitches that aren´t most famous for assisting spinners? First Moon Ali, now Nathan Lyon, and if we want to go a bit back than that, then remember how Monty Panesar and Graeme Swann bamboozled India back in 2012.
Click to expand...

We are screwed against spin these days.

We have been getting owned non stop against spin :facepalm:

New day. New spinner.
 
So Anyone Has Any Doubts That Kohli Will Be A Better Test Captain Than Dhoni?

I haven´t watched the games of the today´s concluded Test series to be passing any judgments about Kohli´s captaincy, and neither should it be done without giving him some time to establish himself, but I must post one observation though.

Kohli seems to be too fascinated by sheer pace and hence of course fast bowlers, but time will make him realise that it is of no use without accuracy. The Indian fast bowlers generate a lot of pace but are way too erratic. Yadav conceding 45 in three overs is a prime example of that, and the high economy rate of others to go with that at Adelaide and Sydney, the two matches in which Kohli captained, and possibly those under Dhoni, too.
 
DHONI183 said:
Kohli seems to be too fascinated by sheer pace and hence of course fast bowlers, but time will make him realise that it is of no use without accuracy.
Click to expand...

He would have played Aaron over Bhuvi if that was the case.

A good decision in hindsight. Atleast, Bhuvi batted well and did not go at 5 rpo.
 
Worst captaincy candidate ever, does not have the composure or the shrewdness to be a captain.
 
He still has some growing up to do but unlike dhoni he at least seems to be passionate about test cricket(home and away).

Still going to be the same issues for india under his captaincy when overseas though and that is if the bowling doesn't dramatically improve india will be playing for draws not wins most games.
 
Well that's what differentiate kohli and Dhoni ,here is his convo with ganguly and sunny :
Kohli: "I think we played well in the second innings, there was a mixture of patience and intent. Jinks showed a lot of character and determination. Eventually, it was a satisfying effort, but crossing the line would have been better. There have been some positives, but only in patches. The batsmen have stepped up, the bowlers need consistency. What matters is taking 20 wickets in Tests. We know we are lacking and we have to improve. At the end of the day, we have to back our strengths. We have to back the guys. The Aussie bowlers know how to set-up batsmen and we have to learn from them. We need to take something from the opposition. After the time in England, I have learnt a lot. I stand on middle and when I shuffle I get to the off stump. I have been a step ahead of the bowler. Few knocks in a winning cause would have been sweeter. I hate losing. That is the bottomline. When I see people like you all, there is great respect. I want our guys to have the same respect and presence. That is what you play for."
 
So now the aggressive captain is applauded not for his on field captaincy, but his post match remarks.
 
CricketCartoons said:
So now the aggressive captain is applauded not for his on field captaincy, but his post match remarks.
Click to expand...

On field captaincy? Dhoni in Aus - played 5 tests as captain, loss=4, draw=1
Kohli in Aus - played 2 tests as captain,loss=1,draw=1
Stats says Kohli>Dhoni (as captain)
 
So why didnt go Kohli go for the chase today like Adelaide?I thought he said he will go for any target?

We picked 13 wickets here,improvement from Adelaide :)
 
Saurav said:
So why didnt go Kohli go for the chase today like Adelaide?I thought he said he will go for any target?

We picked 13 wickets here,improvement from Adelaide :)
Click to expand...

He was going post tea (target was very manageable then) but we lost wickets. It was the right approach too
 
spade said:
Worst captaincy candidate ever, does not have the composure or the shrewdness to be a captain.
Click to expand...

You were clearly not watching the match. His bowlers bowled some absolute rubbish in the 2nd innings, something which would make any captain want to smack them. However, he didn't even get ruffled.
 
Abhilash93 said:
He would have played Aaron over Bhuvi if that was the case.

A good decision in hindsight. Atleast, Bhuvi batted well and did not go at 5 rpo.
Click to expand...

If we had Ashwin and Bhuvi in the first test, we would have drawn that too
 
Doesnt matter who India skipper is with current bowling line up winning tests and test series will be a tough ask against other top 6 test nations espcially away from home, India will be competative but bowling means they will fall short more often then not.
 
Enforcer said:
On field captaincy? Dhoni in Aus - played 5 tests as captain, loss=4, draw=1
Kohli in Aus - played 2 tests as captain,loss=1,draw=1
Stats says Kohli>Dhoni (as captain)
Click to expand...

Let us compare what they did with the same resources against the same opposition. On this tour, Dhoni 1 loss, 1 draw. Same as Kohli. So on this tour Dhoni=Kohli as captain. But I thought mr aggressive was better.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Let us compare what they did with the same resources against the same opposition. On this tour, Dhoni 1 loss, 1 draw. Same as Kohli. So on this tour Dhoni=Kohli as captain. But I thought mr aggressive was better.
Click to expand...

We really came close to winning the first match from an impossible situation. Considering that it was Kohli's first test and dhoni is a veteran, I would say Kohli did perform better and is only going to improve
 
Indiafan said:
We really came close to winning the first match from an impossible situation. Considering that it was Kohli's first test and dhoni is a veteran, I would say Kohli did perform better and is only going to improve
Click to expand...

India should have won the match, or at least drawn it. But Kohli lost it. Kohli the batsman did exceedingly well, but Kohli the captain lost the match for India.
 
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