Sourav Ganguly or MS Dhoni - Who was the better captain?

[Hasan123]

Both are 2 of Indias greatest captains and have been instrumental in some of Indias finest moments. Both are contrasting leaders as well, so who in your opinion is the better captain overall?

 

[moghul]

Gangly was a great captain but Dhoni was even better.

 

[moghul]

Imran Khan is my "gold standard" in captaincy, if he was 10 , I would give 9/10 to Dhoni and 7.5 to Ganguli. In fact Kapil will get 8 from me.

 

[Hasan123]

Imran Khan is my "gold standard" in captaincy, if he was 10 , I would give 9/10 to Dhoni and 7.5 to Ganguli. In fact Kapil will get 8 from me.

LOL under Ganguly, India was one of the few teams to challenge ATG Australian side. He is at least an 8. I'll give him a 9.

 

[javiersuka]

In Tests, Ganguly was way superior Captain than DHONI.

 

[Hasan123]

Yes Ganguly is superior skipper in tests and Dhoni is better in LO, the question is who is better overall.

 

[moghul]

LOL under Ganguly, India was one of the few teams to challenge ATG Australian side. He is at least an 8. I'll give him a 9.

7.5 is a very good score, in comparison Misbah is 5 for me, at his peak he was 7 at one time, but overall he is 5.

 

[Hasan123]

7.5 is a very good score, in comparison Midbah is 5 for me, at his peak he was 7 at one time, but overall he is 5.

But it's not the correct score. Remember he didn't have a gun bowling attack but still challenged a great team in an era where most teams couldn't. You are selling Ganguly short as a captain.

 

[javiersuka]

Ganguly never lost a Test Series in England and Australia, was First Indian Captain to win a Test and Test Series in Pakistan.

These are no mean achievements.

 

[moghul]

Ganguly never lost a Test Series in England and Australia, was First Indian Captain to win a Test and Test Series in Pakistan.

These are no mean achievements.

Agree, but Dhoni achieved much more. And what Kapil achieved was one of the greatest achievements in cricket history. india was not the top team in ODIs then and he led them to win the World Cup in 1984, that too beating mightly West Indians. At such a young age then, he led from from front, as Captain and as an all rounder.

 

[javiersuka]

Agree, but Dhoni achieved much more. And what Kapil achieved was one of the greatest achievements in cricket history. india was not the top team in ODIs then and he led them to win the World Cup in 1984, that too beating mightly West Indians. At such a young age then, he led from from front, as Captain and as an all rounder.

Yeah, you are right about Kapil. That's why I rate him as even a better Odi Captain than even Imran Khan.

Kapil challenger the supremacy of Windies Side at WC's and inspired the likes of Imran who finally managed to win the WC on his last legs, an achievement which was accomplished by a Young Kapil.

 

[FlickedOffHips]

Yes Ganguly is superior skipper in tests and Dhoni is better in LO, the question is who is better overall.

i go with dhoni. 3 icc titles are enough to swing it his way.

 

[moghul]

Yeah, you are right about Kapil. That's why I rate him as even a better Odi Captain than even Imran Khan.

Kapil challenger the supremacy of Windies Side at WC's and inspired the likes of Imran who finally managed to win the WC on his last legs, an achievement which was accomplished by a Young Kapil.

You have a point, it's simply unbelievable, how a 25 year old changed the history of cricket. He had no one to get inspiration from at that time, he did all by himself, not taking away the contribution from others and then his innings against Zimbabwe and the Viv Richard,s catch in the final, glorious moments in cricket history.

 

[cr7great]

kapil
ganguly
dhoni

 

[subshakerz]

Ganguly in tests, Dhoni is ODIs and 20/20s. This is one of those rare situations when a captain is not necessarily as effective in all formats.

Ganguly gave the Indian team the backbone to win test matches overseas, including in Australia. He had an aggressive streak and actually built the test team which Dhoni later used (Sehwag as opener, the Fabo Four as middle order, Harbie and Zaheer as main strike bowlers).

Dhoni was arguably the greatest tactical captain of all time in the limited over version. He basically 'figured out' the modern day format, the art of run chasing, how to effectively manage limited bowling options on batting-friendly wickets, and keep his cool and never let the pressure get to him.

However, Dhoni's laid back style of bowling containment and batting focus, which is a great advantage in ODIs, was a serious drawback in tests. He didnt show complete faith in his bowlers, let the game linger often in a reactive way and seemed to cave in too quickly to defensiveness once the opposition attacked. His whitewashes in England and Australia were utterly spineless performances unbecoming of any captain who could be called great, especially in Australia where his predecessors Ganguly and Kumble were both able to compete and win tests.

 

[Drreddymd]

Ganguly im tests and dhoni in odis

 

[Tusker]

MSD by a mile. However I must thank Ganguly immensely for identifying MSD and giving him a chance (if true)

 

[JaDed]

Ganguly in tests,Dhoni LOI.

 

[AnasK]

Tough choice but I would go for MS Dhoni.

 

[Varun]

Ganguly in both formats for me.

Dhoni couldn't have done what Ganguly did in 2000 - 2007.

 

[Drreddymd]

Kapil actually changed the landscape of indian cricket .untill that win hockey is the no 1 sport in india and after that win cricket rose like a phoenix trampling on every other sport.

 

[Drreddymd]

Fans overrating dhoni should look into what kapil done with that team of no hopers who were just there to fill the no s in previous worldcups.he lead from the front with both bat ,ball and captaincy and not like dhoni who has a superstar team and who has done nothing other than being a passenger.

 

[Drreddymd]

Ganguly in both formats for me.

Dhoni couldn't have done what Ganguly did in 2000 - 2007.

Dhoni is indian version of misbah who is not a risk taker,waits for things to happen,doesnt trust his fast bowlers

 

[jusarrived]

Ganguly in both formats for me.

Dhoni couldn't have done what Ganguly did in 2000 - 2007.

What excatly did we do under Ganguly in that period ?

 

[Drreddymd]

What excatly did we do under Ganguly in that period ?

We reached world cup final,won champions trophy,reached final of others champions trophy.

 

[jusarrived]

People calling Dhoni defensive , have never see Ganguly captain a test match . He was lot more defensive and clue less when things got tough . The impression that he was aggressive was from the way he handled media and his off field personality .
In the last few years , the only captain who was actually aggressive on field and took risks was Dravid , though it was a very short stint .

 

[jusarrived]

We reached world cup final,won champions trophy,reached final of others champions trophy.

omg we reached so many finals ? I do remember that phase when the team and fans where so content finishing second best in everything .

 

[Rightarmfast]

Ganguly by a long long distance. Ganguly was infact better than Imran Khan as a captain.

Ganguly built a system for Indian cricket. He brought in a change in the psychy, aggression. He was the one captain who encouraged fast bowlers and it was in his era that Indian team started getting and also understanding how to use fast bowlers.
If anything, Dhoni has been a selfish captain under who the team has gone down several notches. When you hear a team captain blaming his bowlers in prize ceremony, you know that theres something wrong. Dhoni did that more than often.

Kapil was a great captain, however he did not build a system, unlike Ganguly. Ganguly wins over Imran by a few points as a captain.

 

[cricketfanfirst]

Sourav was a great captain and motivator, he introduced and persisted with young talent like Viru, Yuvraj, Zaheer etc. We always were competitive during his captaincy, never were humiliated.

To me, Sourav was our best captain in Tests.

Dhoni was a very good LOI captain, but I don't think he was that good in Tests. Seemed to go on defensive too early in Tests, and did not show great tactical/strategic vision in the long format. Also, I think he should have resigned after losing 8 successive overseas tests, not sure, but I think this must be a dubious record for any captain.

Both have done great service to Indian cricket and I respect and admire both of them.

 

[Drreddymd]

People calling Dhoni defensive , have never see Ganguly captain a test match . He was lot more defensive and clue less when things got tough . The impression that he was aggressive was from the way he handled media and his off field personality .
In the last few years , the only captain who was actually aggressive on field and took risks was Dravid , though it was a very short stint .

But he never lead us to whitewashes after whitewashes.he helped draw series in eng,aus,won series in pak.

 

[JattMaula]

Dada changed Indian cricket for better. He introduced 'winning' mentality. We didn't win many Trophys under him but he was the man we needed in charge to get rid of minnow thinking Indian team used to have.

Dhoni took that mentality and converted it into habit. Though his process oriented view in tests is really frustrating sometimes.

My vote goes to

 

[Drreddymd]

omg we reached so many finals ? I do remember that phase when the team and fans where so content finishing second best in everything .

So a single world cup extra makes him the best ?he is no kapil dev.he is what we call non playing captain.what about the white washes under him if he is soo good a captain as u make of him? The only thing he is famous for in those wins is his captaincy and not his performance?if u give so much credit for odi and t 20 wins what do u make of his abysmal test captaincy ?

 

[jusarrived]

Sourav was a great captain and motivator, he introduced and persisted with young talent like Viru, Yuvraj, Zaheer etc. We always were competitive during his captaincy, never were humiliated.

To me, Sourav was our best captain in Tests.

Dhoni was a very good LOI captain, but I don't think he was that good in Tests. Seemed to go on defensive too early in Tests, and did not show great tactical/strategic vision in the long format. Also, I think he should have resigned after losing 8 successive overseas tests, not sure, but I think this must be a dubious record for any captain.

Both have done great service to Indian cricket and I respect and admire both of them.

Dhoni is supposed to be a poor captain in Tests , can you list out Gangulys achievement especially away from SC ?

Do you know the grand total of Test matches we have won in SA/NZ/SA and even in WI and ZIM under him ?

 

[jusarrived]

So a single world cup extra makes him the best ?he is no kapil dev.he is what we call non playing captain.what about the white washes under him if he is soo good a captain as u make of him? The only thing he is famous for in those wins is his captaincy and not his performance?if u give so much credit for odi and t 20 wins what do u make of his abysmal test captaincy ?

ICC CT , 1 50 Over WC , 1 T20 WC and no1 in Tests .
Dhoni has 70% test wins at home , so in that aspect there is no comparison , hes leagues ahead of Ganguly . As for away Test matches , I would like to know our away record under Ganguly too .

 

[cricketfanfirst]

Not sure about grand total, but he was able to draw in Aus/Eng and won in Pak, these are some away series which are registered in my mind.

At least, during Saurav's captaincy we were not humiliated on away tours which in my opinion would always will carry a blot on Dhoni's test captaincy. More than the losses, his captaincy was lot to be desired on those tours, as I watched almost all matches during those tours, the way he handled the bowlers, specially in the second test match against England, his bowling changes, his bizarre field placements.

As I said, I like both of them, and that was what my opinion on them...

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

People can argue stats all day long but personally for me, I don't give 2 hoots about it when judging captain.

Arjuna Ranatunga and Stephen Fleming were GREATER captains than Ponting.

Clarke was a tactical genius even though he got whitewashed in Asia.

Bmac was a gun captain (a bit too reckless but would have found the right balance if he had played more).

For tests, Ganguly was BY FAR the superior captain.

Yes, he was just as defensive as Dhoni (not that being defensive is a bad word) but he was a visionary (played a huge role in building up our test and LOI sides - Sehwag, Yuvi, Bhajji, Kaif, Zak prospered), a leader who changed the attitude of the team, a guy who was PROACTIVE atleast when looking at talent (he used to give Bhajji more preference ahead of famed Kumble during a period where I felt Bhajji was objectively the better bowler overall).

His flaws were that he was too defensive, took his place in the team for granted, lullooed around with the bat for a year or two before majority of fans got sick of his lack of performances (he later improved his performances) but all that doesn't take away from him being the GUN captain he was.

In ODIs too, Ganguly was good but we weren't a clutch team at that point of time. Say what you want about Tendulkar but during a period of 2000-2007 odd, he choked a lot in finals or crucial moments. In 90s and post 2007, he was better. We didn't have Kohli like chaser nor did our ODI team develop to be the terror it became once Dravid, Kaif and all got booted out.

So its natural why we didn't win a lot of finals in Ganguly period. Honestly we could have won CT 2003 if rain didn't play spoilsport for 2 days straight messing up both finals.

Now coming to Dhoni, he was objectively the BETTER LOI captain for the sole reason he was a tactical genius in LOI with heavy emphasis on defensive game.

Sometimes its easy to take things for granted but Dhoni actually won matches for his with his captaincy alone (WC semi finals 2011, CT finals 2013, WT20 2007 and so many other matches I may not remember now). He could manage some truly garbage bowling and eke out wins (out bowling in CT 2013 was gun but in 2011 WC it was woeful except for Zaheer).

But the thing was that even in LOI, Dhoni was not a visionary or proactive captain. He didn't build any teams...he was master of jugaad. Use whatever is available to get results NOW but for the long term, nothing really materialized. Our bowling attack in 2011 was almost minnowesque to be honest and was saved by probably one of the greatest (if the not the greatest) ODI batting lineup assembled in ODI.

So LOIs, my vote goes Dhoni NOT for his all round captaincy skills but for his tactical genius.

So to summarise:

Visionary - Ganguly
Leader - Ganguly
Proactive - Ganguly (comparatively)
Tactics - Dhoni (for his LOI exploits)
Man Manager - Ganguly (a lot of players had problems with Dhoni - but then its possible that Dhoni created a a much better team environment by diminishing the importance of the senior culture which was prevalant during Ganguly days)

Taking all things into account, its a very easy answer for me personally.

Dada wins it.

 

[SL_Fan]

Many underrate Ponting's captaincy. The guy has got a brilliant cricket brain. Have to listen to him in the Big Bash. Hope he gets picked up by ch nine in the near future.

 

[ab041937]

Ganguly's was the only team that stopped Aussie juggernaut of 16 straight win in Kolkata in 2001, drew a series in Australia 1-1 in 2003 when the Aussie team reigned supreme is both the Test & ODI arena.

Ganguly imbibed the fighting spirit in the otherwise a meak Indian team that would most likely surrender against a strong opposition even before taking the field. I remember, earlier many India players would turn their heads other way when sledged. Dada taught them to look into their eyes & give them back.

Dhoni was groomed for captaincy whereas, Ganguly was a natural leader.

 

[Ab Fan]

Ganguly in tests.

Dhoni in odis.

Dhoni has more achievements to his name than Ganguly as a leader but the latter was a visionary who brought an aggressive style to Indian cricket and taught them how to fight and win the battle.

Ganguly it is IMO.

 

[jusarrived]

Ganguly's was the only team that stopped Aussie juggernaut of 16 straight win in Kolkata in 2001, drew a series in Australia 1-1 in 2003 when the Aussie team reigned supreme is both the Test & ODI arena.

Ganguly imbibed the fighting spirit in the otherwise a meak Indian team that would most likely surrender against a strong opposition even before taking the field. I remember, earlier many India players would turn their heads other way when sledged. Dada taught them to look into their eyes & give them back.

Dhoni was groomed for captaincy whereas, Ganguly was a natural leader.

Infact India had never lost to Aus at home for 39 years ? Gangulys team was the first to do that in years .

 

[gani999]

Not many of you youngsters know that there was a captain much before Ganguly who gave India the confidence to compete with the best and win. He even led India to its first overseas test series victory.

His name was Manzur Ali Khan Pataudi.

Anyway, coming back to the thread, my pick would be Ganguly. He gave Indian players the confidence and guts to compete with aggressive sides like Australia. Dhoni merely built up on the foundation Ganguly laid.

 

[jeetu]

Not many of you youngsters know that there was a captain much before Ganguly who gave India the confidence to compete with the best and win. He even led India to its first overseas test series victory.

His name was Manzur Ali Khan Pataudi.

Anyway, coming back to the thread, my pick would be Ganguly. He gave Indian players the confidence and guts to compete with aggressive sides like Australia. Dhoni merely built up on the foundation Ganguly laid.

Patuadi was the brain behind spin quartet. First great Indian captain.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Ganguly for me too. Our 2003 WC team is still my favorite Indian Cricket team. Also the way India fought as equals against an ATG Aussie side (both home and away) was remarkable.

 

[Major]

WHat i liked about gangully was his attitude.

He was a proud Indian, proud of from where he belonged and didn't chase after others.

If his team losses in Australia, he didn't care, his reply would be you beat us in India.

Nowadays subcontinent captains dont have self respect, they will always think that beating someone in AUstralia or in England or in SA matters more, while this is not the thinking Ganguly had.

Just like how australia feel proud of themselves playing pace in australia, he felt proud of his guys knowing how to play spin in his country.

Loved what he did in the Lords balcony. He always had a point to prove.

 

[AZulfi]

Ganguly in tests

Dhoni in limited overs formats

 

[street cricketer]

Dhoni was a gun captain, especially in LOIs. He understood the game like no other and it almost seemed like he had decoded the blueprint for success in limited overs games. His captaincy was like playing a chess match. Was genuinely the most shrewd captain I've seen on the field when it comes to limited overs cricket. His CV in international cricket pretty much confirms it.

But I don't think many Indian fans would look past Ganguly when it comes to this question. Ganguly's contribution was something more that can be measured by mere trophy count. Though India had a few talented cricketers in the 90s, India were one of the most mentally fragile teams in world cricket then. They would often lose it in their mind even before entering the field when they saw a superior unit opposite and often played with an inferiority complex. The general tag associated with India then was "tigers at home, cats away". When India were caught in a mire after the fixing saga and when Sachin's tenure as captain turned a failure of epic proportions, the young and brash Ganguly took over the reins and brought about a drastic generational change in the mindset of the Indian team.

Ganguly was never loved as much as Tendulkar or Dravid on a global level. He was always a polarising figure, some loved his guts while others hated his elitist and snobbish attitude. But he was always in the news, the ever controversial and combative figure he was. When the all conquering Steve Waugh's Australian team, by far the greatest team of the planet then and one who had made a name on their much famed "mental disintegration" ploy, landed on the Indian shores as the final frontier in 2001 after 15 straight test wins behind them, Ganguly didn't sound too impressed at the pre match press conference and simply remarked that, “They have won most of their games at home, they beat West Indies 5-0 at home, beat India and Pakistan also at home. They toured India in ’96 and ’98 and lost. So obviously, that will be on the back of their minds”. When Ganguly dropped Steve Waugh at Kolkata on the final day before tea requiring 7 wickets to win, Waugh in his usual cheeky way sledged Ganguly "you just dropped the test mate!". His effect on the team was so much so that Rahul Dravid of all people gave Waugh a send off after he got dismissed by Bhajji after tea.

Ganguly was nothing like a gentleman of the ilk of Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman or Kumble and he never tried to be like them. Ganguly had an elitist attitude of a massive fl*g and he made no bones about showing it whether while making Waugh to wait ten minutes at the toss or while making a shirtless celebration at the Lord's balcony sending the purists into overdrive. Yes, such elitist attitude could be poisonous for the team harmony, but it was exactly what India required then as they often buckled down timidly against the Australians and the English. Yes, it could be seen as daft to behave in such a manner against such strong sides to risk having egg on face in the end. But that is what you have to do to beat mentally strong teams like Australia. That is what Ranatunga did before the final of the '96 world cup when he called Warne "overrated". I'm sure both Ganguly and Ranatunga never believed a word of what they said, but it's just one of those mind games and mental battles you have to play against an aggressive and mentally strong side like Australia, lest you'll be their prey in no time.

Ganguly's biggest achievement was going toe to toe home and away with one of the greatest teams of all time, who demolished every other side that came in their way. Ganguly's role will perhaps be known the most for ruffling Australia’s feathers in that 2001 series, he succeeded in getting up the noses of a team which got up the noses of everyone else. While Waugh criticised Ganguly for his snobbish and elitist behaviour in that series in his book, he also added “You have to give him an ‘A’ for his attempts to annoy us, and in particular me. It worked to a certain extent”. And when you add the series win in Pakistan and draw in England, he is in big contention for being the greatest ever asian test captain. To put it simply, Ganguly brought a spine to the Indian team, Dhoni added brains to it. And I'm pretty sure most Indian fans will regard him as the best ever Indian captain, atleast in test cricket.

 

[Thivagar]

i go with dhoni. 3 icc titles are enough to swing it his way.

1. There was no T20 World Cup when Ganguly played.
2. India didn't play a World cup at home.
3. Ganguly led India to 2 finals of Champions trophy in which one was washed out.

 

[jeetu]

1. There was no T20 World Cup when Ganguly played.
2. India didn't play a World cup at home.
3. Ganguly led India to 2 finals of Champions trophy in which one was washed out.

Runner up in 2003 WC was pretty big achievement of Ganguly considering it was in South Africa and India were beaten by NZ just a short while back before that WC.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Ganguly is better in test and Dhoni is better in odi .
For me Ganugly was more than the result , he really changed the face of Indian cricket team.

 

[Thivagar]

Runner up in 2003 WC was pretty big achievement of Ganguly considering it was in South Africa and India were beaten by NZ just a short while back before that WC.

ICC makes the pitch for WC, so that pitch was relatively unbiased and safe for everyone. It did bit of everything. Dhoni's tactics is a bit over rated. Like I said before, fans mostly watch their home team play and don't analyze the opposition much as their own and therefore there will always be biased towards home side. Dhoni played during the internet age, so his captaincy is highlighted in youtube videos, blogs, cricket based websites and he has got the population to market it as well. Commentators aren't knowledgeable either, batsmen don't know much about bowling and bowlers don't know much about batting. In fact, when it comes to commentary it always has been the ex-bowler turned commentators that has impressed me apart from Ricky Ponting. Anyway, I believe Kohli will be a better captain than both. When he started going with 5 bowlers and 6 batsmen I knew he knew very well about the importance of bowling.

 

[troodon]

Ganguly had the guts to standup to tough teams like Aus and England during his time. But his attitude towards fitness was pathetic. Though he was a good catcher, his ground fielding was terrible. Perhaps slower than Ashwin.

MSD is the epitome of fitness. He is built like a tank and hardly ever tires out. But his Test captaincy was below par. He never had faith in his pacers and let the game drift away from India many times.

Tests - Ganguly
ODI's - MSD by a mile.

 

[Tusker]

1. There was no T20 World Cup when Ganguly played.
2. India didn't play a World cup at home.
3. Ganguly led India to 2 finals of Champions trophy in which one was washed out.

Ganguly was never fit to play T20 Cricket on merit which is why he wisely never played any T20's that were just begining in 2005/6 timeperiod.

In Dhoni's time there were not many Multination tournaments ... Ganguly lost 9 out of 11 finals that we played in. And playing Worldcup at home is not an advantage ... we lost the 87 and 96 Worldcups at home and 2011 was the first time any home team won the WC. Simply because the pressure from expectations is dramatically magnified a home. Nothing comes closer to the 2011 Q/F, S/F and Final in terms of unbearable pressure. I still recall the horrible feeling in my gut that lasted for few days before the S/F ... I can only imagine how it must have been for the players. Had it been Ganguly we would have most certainly lost right at the Semi finals.

I will take MSD as the captain in a heart beat. Also Ganguly's Test match achievements are bit over-rated. Nobody talks about how he lost to the Aussies in 2004/5 at home and chickened out from the Nagpur Test once he saw a green track. Ganguly was lucky to have had the best bowlers India ever produced - Srinath, Kumble, Zak, Nehra and Harbhajan. MSD achieved No.1 in tests with lesser bowlers and a injury prone Zack who missed more than he played when MSD was the captain.

Of all the things the worst thing that Ganguly did was bring in Greg Chappell that set us back few years and cost us the debacle of 2007 WC.

 

[Thivagar]

Ganguly was never fit to play T20 Cricket on merit which is why he wisely never played any T20's that were just begining in 2005/6 timeperiod.

In Dhoni's time there were not many Multination tournaments ... Ganguly lost 9 out of 11 finals that we played in. And playing Worldcup at home is not an advantage ... we lost the 87 and 96 Worldcups at home and 2011 was the first time any home team won the WC. Simply because the pressure from expectations is dramatically magnified a home. Nothing comes closer to the 2011 Q/F, S/F and Final in terms of unbearable pressure. I still recall the horrible feeling in my gut that lasted for few days before the S/F ... I can only imagine how it must have been for the players. Had it been Ganguly we would have most certainly lost right at the Semi finals.

I will take MSD as the captain in a heart beat. Also Ganguly's Test match achievements are bit over-rated. Nobody talks about how he lost to the Aussies in 2004/5 at home and chickened out from the Nagpur Test once he saw a green track. Ganguly was lucky to have had the best bowlers India ever produced - Srinath, Kumble, Zak, Nehra and Harbhajan. MSD achieved No.1 in tests with lesser bowlers and a injury prone Zack who missed more than he played when MSD was the captain.

Of all the things the worst thing that Ganguly did was bring in Greg Chappell that set us back few years and cost us the debacle of 2007 WC.

Ganguly was pretty much done by the first T20 WC. Ganguly was 35s when T20 format was introduced, can't compare the two on T20.

Indian players had been playing few years of IPL by the 2011 WC and had experience playing in high pressure experience. There is no advantage than playing at home in familiar condition and the pitch. You also have 99% of the crowd support. You seriously think the 2003 WC Indian team would have lost if they had played the 2003 world cup at home ? You think the 2011 WC team would reached the finals if they had played the 2011 WC in South Africa with Shehwag, Gambhir, Sachin, Yuvi, Raina, himself, Kohli, Bhajji, and Zak ?.


I do agree that it was a poor decision of Ganguly to bat second at the 2003 WC but you think that Australian team would have lost ? Ganguly deciding not to play that Test was indeed shameful. I was over hearing a person that worked with Dravid and Rajasthan Royals discuss this scenario. Ganguly told Dravid at the toss to say he had niggles and he won't be playing. Dravid said "I'll see" and just walked away. Obviously at the toss he said "He has niggle or something" with a half heart. Remember it was Ganguly that gave MSD a chance. Everyone wanted Dinesh Karthick and Dhoni didn't have a great Ranji season either. He was chosen to the academy based on quota. He did do well at the A tour.

MSD also lost 11-0 in England and Australia within a year and year and a half.

 

[Bilal7]

Ganguly was better. It's funny when some Indians try to pit Dhoni against Imran when in reality, Dhoni isn't even the best captain in India.

Dhoni is the Misbah of Pakistan, as a captain.

 

[Bilal7]

Dhoni was a gun captain, especially in LOIs. He understood the game like no other and it almost seemed like he had decoded the blueprint for success in limited overs games. His captaincy was like playing a chess match. Was genuinely the most shrewd captain I've seen on the field when it comes to limited overs cricket. His CV in international cricket pretty much confirms it.

But I don't think many Indian fans would look past Ganguly when it comes to this question. Ganguly's contribution was something more that can be measured by mere trophy count. Though India had a few talented cricketers in the 90s, India were one of the most mentally fragile teams in world cricket then. They would often lose it in their mind even before entering the field when they saw a superior unit opposite and often played with an inferiority complex. The general tag associated with India then was "tigers at home, cats away". When India were caught in a mire after the fixing saga and when Sachin's tenure as captain turned a failure of epic proportions, the young and brash Ganguly took over the reins and brought about a drastic generational change in the mindset of the Indian team.

Ganguly was never loved as much as Tendulkar or Dravid on a global level. He was always a polarising figure, some loved his guts while others hated his elitist and snobbish attitude. But he was always in the news, the ever controversial and combative figure he was. When the all conquering Steve Waugh's Australian team, by far the greatest team of the planet then and one who had made a name on their much famed "mental disintegration" ploy, landed on the Indian shores as the final frontier in 2001 after 15 straight test wins behind them, Ganguly didn't sound too impressed at the pre match press conference and simply remarked that, “They have won most of their games at home, they beat West Indies 5-0 at home, beat India and Pakistan also at home. They toured India in ’96 and ’98 and lost. So obviously, that will be on the back of their minds”. When Ganguly dropped Steve Waugh at Kolkata on the final day before tea requiring 7 wickets to win, Waugh in his usual cheeky way sledged Ganguly "you just dropped the test mate!". His effect on the team was so much so that Rahul Dravid of all people gave Waugh a send off after he got dismissed by Bhajji after tea.

Ganguly was nothing like a gentleman of the ilk of Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman or Kumble and he never tried to be like them. Ganguly had an elitist attitude of a massive fl*g and he made no bones about showing it whether while making Waugh to wait ten minutes at the toss or while making a shirtless celebration at the Lord's balcony sending the purists into overdrive. Yes, such elitist attitude could be poisonous for the team harmony, but it was exactly what India required then as they often buckled down timidly against the Australians and the English. Yes, it could be seen as daft to behave in such a manner against such strong sides to risk having egg on face in the end. But that is what you have to do to beat mentally strong teams like Australia. That is what Ranatunga did before the final of the '96 world cup when he called Warne "overrated". I'm sure both Ganguly and Ranatunga never believed a word of what they said, but it's just one of those mind games and mental battles you have to play against an aggressive and mentally strong side like Australia, lest you'll be their prey in no time.

Ganguly's biggest achievement was going toe to toe home and away with one of the greatest teams of all time, who demolished every other side that came in their way. Ganguly's role will perhaps be known the most for ruffling Australia’s feathers in that 2001 series, he succeeded in getting up the noses of a team which got up the noses of everyone else. While Waugh criticised Ganguly for his snobbish and elitist behaviour in that series in his book, he also added “You have to give him an ‘A’ for his attempts to annoy us, and in particular me. It worked to a certain extent”. And when you add the series win in Pakistan and draw in England, he is in big contention for being the greatest ever asian test captain. To put it simply, Ganguly brought a spine to the Indian team, Dhoni added brains to it. And I'm pretty sure most Indian fans will regard him as the best ever Indian captain, atleast in test cricket.

Great post, buddy. How did the average Indian feel about Ganguly when he was still playing?

 

[street cricketer]

Great post, buddy. How did the average Indian feel about Ganguly when he was still playing?

You know with Indian fans, there are always factions. There are a lot of Sachin and Dhoni fans but I've seen a large number of anti Sachin and anti Dhoni fans as well. Ganguly was probably more polarising than either of them.

Although I don't think there were many fans who criticised him for his captaincy during his time tbh. There were more fans who criticised him for his batting towards the end of his career. He was a top class opener in the 90s but gradually declined in batting probably more so than his peers. Otherwise, I think most Indian fans admired his gutsy character, the fighting spirit he injected into the team and the youngsters he developed during his time (Yuvi, Kaif, Bhajji, Raina, etc.). Overall there is a great admiration among the Indian fans for his services to the Indian team. There was a section of Dhoni and Ganguly fans who were always at each other, but you get that in the subcontinent.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Dhoni's captaincy is overrated. Like Misbah, he doesn't know how to use seamers. He was great at putting a stranglehold with his spin attack. Obviously great leadership qualities.

 

[ab041937]

Infact India had never lost to Aus at home for 39 years ? Gangulys team was the first to do that in years .

India didn't even knew how to win matches overseas before Ganguly. Ganguly taught that. He wen't to Australia, drew the series 1-1. Dhoni took his team & returned with 4-0 loss.

 

[jusarrived]

India didn't even knew how to win matches overseas before Ganguly. Ganguly taught that. He wen't to Australia, drew the series 1-1. Dhoni took his team & returned with 4-0 loss.

So tell us how many matches we won away under Ganguly ?

 

[jeetu]

So tell us how many matches we won away under Ganguly ?

Away record as captain
[table=width: 700, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]In Country [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Won [/td][td]Lost [/td][td]Draw [/td][td]Start Date [/td][td]Winner [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bangladesh [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]10-Nov-00 [/td][td]India [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zimbabwe [/td][td]2 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]7-Jun-01 [/td][td]drawn [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sri Lanka [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]14-Aug-01 [/td][td]Sri Lanka [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]3-Nov-01 [/td][td]South Africa [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]11-Apr-02 [/td][td]West Indies [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England [/td][td]4 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]25-Jul-02 [/td][td]drawn [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Zealand [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]12-Dec-02 [/td][td]New Zealand [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]4 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]4-Dec-03 [/td][td]drawn [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pakistan [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]13-Apr-04 [/td][td]India [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zimbabwe [/td][td]2 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]13-Sep-05 [/td][td]India [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td]26 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]7 [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[Hitman]

Ganguly was better. It's funny when some Indians try to pit Dhoni against Imran when in reality, Dhoni isn't even the best captain in India.

Dhoni is the Misbah of Pakistan, as a captain.

Did Misbah lead his team to an ODI World Cup victory? Imran Khan certainly did. And so did Dhoni, and he played the best innings in the final and was the MOM. Was Imran Khan the MOM in the finals of the 1992 World Cup? What was his performance in that match?

 

[ab041937]

So tell us how many matches we won away under Ganguly ?

Stats already posted by PPCL admin. 9 victories & near 50% win/Loss ratio overseas is a great achievement given that his predecessor Sachin Tendulkar didn't win a single match overseas as captain & Mohd Azharuddin won just 1 test against Sri Lanka in 1993.

 

[jusarrived]

Stats already posted by PPCL admin. 9 victories & near 50% win/Loss ratio overseas is a great achievement given that his predecessor Sachin Tendulkar didn't win a single match overseas as captain & Mohd Azharuddin won just 1 test against Sri Lanka in 1993.

9 wins ( 0 wins in NZ , 0 wins in SA , 1 win in Aus , 1 win in Eng ) .
we couldnt even beat WI and Zim ( counting out the weakened side ) , not a single overseas series win .

In comparison , under Dhoni we won a series in NZ and WI and Drew in SA ( which was a far better side than the one we drew in Aus ) .

 

[jusarrived]

Away record as captain
[table=width: 700, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]In Country [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Won [/td][td]Lost [/td][td]Draw [/td][td]Start Date [/td][td]Winner [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bangladesh [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]10-Nov-00 [/td][td]India [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zimbabwe [/td][td]2 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]7-Jun-01 [/td][td]drawn [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sri Lanka [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]14-Aug-01 [/td][td]Sri Lanka [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]3-Nov-01 [/td][td]South Africa [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]11-Apr-02 [/td][td]West Indies [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England [/td][td]4 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]25-Jul-02 [/td][td]drawn [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Zealand [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]12-Dec-02 [/td][td]New Zealand [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]4 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]4-Dec-03 [/td][td]drawn [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pakistan [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]13-Apr-04 [/td][td]India [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zimbabwe [/td][td]2 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]13-Sep-05 [/td][td]India [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td]26 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]7 [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Thanks , the overall stats look decent only cos of 3 wins against Zim .

 

[ab041937]

9 wins ( 0 wins in NZ , 0 wins in SA , 1 win in Aus , 1 win in Eng ) .
we couldnt even beat WI and Zim ( counting out the weakened side ) , not a single overseas series win .

In comparison , under Dhoni we won a series in NZ and WI and Drew in SA ( which was a far better side than the one we drew in Aus ) .

As if we were winning tons of series before Ganguly took over. Given that we struggled to beat Zimbabwe only suggests how much valuable 1 victory each in England & Australia were. Dhoni merely took over Ganguly's legacy and carried it forward. Those victories in NZ & WI wouldn't have happened if Ganguly hadn't handed over a fighting unit & team with self belief. BTW, please don't conveniently ignore Dhoni 4-0 spanking in Australia & England, latter one coming right after World Cup victory.

 

[spade]

Msd

 

[jeetu]

Dhoni's away test record as captain

[table=width: 700, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]in Country [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Won [/td][td]Lost [/td][td]Draw [/td][td]Start Date [/td][td]Winner [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Zealand [/td][td]2 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]18-Mar-09 [/td][td]India [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bangladesh [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]24-Jan-10 [/td][td]India [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sri Lanka [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]18-Jul-10 [/td][td]drawn [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]16-Dec-10 [/td][td]drawn [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]20-Jun-11 [/td][td]India [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] England [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]21-Jul-11 [/td][td]England [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]26-Dec-11 [/td][td]Australia [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]18-Dec-13 [/td][td]South Africa [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Zealand [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]6-Feb-14 [/td][td]New Zealand [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]9-Jul-14 [/td][td]England [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]17-Dec-14 [/td][td]Australia [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td]30 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]9 [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[Tusker]

People can argue stats all day long but personally for me, I don't give 2 hoots about it when judging captain.

Arjuna Ranatunga and Stephen Fleming were GREATER captains than Ponting.

Clarke was a tactical genius even though he got whitewashed in Asia.

Bmac was a gun captain (a bit too reckless but would have found the right balance if he had played more).

For tests, Ganguly was BY FAR the superior captain.

Yes, he was just as defensive as Dhoni (not that being defensive is a bad word) but he was a visionary (played a huge role in building up our test and LOI sides - Sehwag, Yuvi, Bhajji, Kaif, Zak prospered), a leader who changed the attitude of the team, a guy who was PROACTIVE atleast when looking at talent (he used to give Bhajji more preference ahead of famed Kumble during a period where I felt Bhajji was objectively the better bowler overall).

His flaws were that he was too defensive, took his place in the team for granted, lullooed around with the bat for a year or two before majority of fans got sick of his lack of performances (he later improved his performances) but all that doesn't take away from him being the GUN captain he was.

In ODIs too, Ganguly was good but we weren't a clutch team at that point of time. Say what you want about Tendulkar but during a period of 2000-2007 odd, he choked a lot in finals or crucial moments. In 90s and post 2007, he was better. We didn't have Kohli like chaser nor did our ODI team develop to be the terror it became once Dravid, Kaif and all got booted out.

So its natural why we didn't win a lot of finals in Ganguly period. Honestly we could have won CT 2003 if rain didn't play spoilsport for 2 days straight messing up both finals.

Now coming to Dhoni, he was objectively the BETTER LOI captain for the sole reason he was a tactical genius in LOI with heavy emphasis on defensive game.

Sometimes its easy to take things for granted but Dhoni actually won matches for his with his captaincy alone (WC semi finals 2011, CT finals 2013, WT20 2007 and so many other matches I may not remember now). He could manage some truly garbage bowling and eke out wins (out bowling in CT 2013 was gun but in 2011 WC it was woeful except for Zaheer).

But the thing was that even in LOI, Dhoni was not a visionary or proactive captain. He didn't build any teams...he was master of jugaad. Use whatever is available to get results NOW but for the long term, nothing really materialized. Our bowling attack in 2011 was almost minnowesque to be honest and was saved by probably one of the greatest (if the not the greatest) ODI batting lineup assembled in ODI.

So LOIs, my vote goes Dhoni NOT for his all round captaincy skills but for his tactical genius.

So to summarise:

Visionary - Ganguly
Leader - Ganguly
Proactive - Ganguly (comparatively)
Tactics - Dhoni (for his LOI exploits)
Man Manager - Ganguly (a lot of players had problems with Dhoni - but then its possible that Dhoni created a a much better team environment by diminishing the importance of the senior culture which was prevalant during Ganguly days)

Taking all things into account, its a very easy answer for me personally.

Dada wins it.

You cant call someone a visionary or a clear thinker when you have done things like inviting Greg Chappell and chickening out of a Home Test after spotting a green wicket.

Dhoni on the other hand when things would go south would take off his gloves and start bowling or promote himself in a WC Final. Now thats the sort of leader that people respect.

 

[FlickedOffHips]

Ganguly was great. Dhoni was better.

 

[FlickedOffHips]

And Kohli will top them all.

 

[Bilal7]

Did Misbah lead his team to an ODI World Cup victory? Imran Khan certainly did. And so did Dhoni, and he played the best innings in the final and was the MOM. Was Imran Khan the MOM in the finals of the 1992 World Cup? What was his performance in that match?

Not saying they are exactly the same but they are in the same league, at least in tests, compared to a guy like Imran who is two tiers ahead.

Imran played a better innings in the finals of the '92 WC, than Dhoni did in the 2011 WC. Imran's victory didn't take place in his own backyard either.

 

[Pollack]

Sourav Ganguly. Do not care for stats.

 

[Saurav]

Dhoni easily.

 

[jusarrived]

As if we were winning tons of series before Ganguly took over. Given that we struggled to beat Zimbabwe only suggests how much valuable 1 victory each in England & Australia were. Dhoni merely took over Ganguly's legacy and carried it forward. Those victories in NZ & WI wouldn't have happened if Ganguly hadn't handed over a fighting unit & team with self belief. BTW, please don't conveniently ignore Dhoni 4-0 spanking in Australia & England, latter one coming right after World Cup victory.

Wasnt the first time we where winning a match in Aus or Eng . We had drawn a Test series in Aus in the 80s and had series wins in England before Ganguly. Won nothing under Ganguly . lol at the fighting spirit carp , its just the new indian generation and not just confined to cricket .

 

[aukhan]

Dhoni undoubtedly.

 

[ab041937]

Wasnt the first time we where winning a match in Aus or Eng . We had drawn a Test series in Aus in the 80s and had series wins in England before Ganguly. Won nothing under Ganguly . lol at the fighting spirit carp , its just the new Indian generation and not just confined to cricket .

By the very same criteria, Dhoni didn't do anything that was achieved the "1st time", including 2011 World cup victory. Considering that last overseas test victory came in 1986 before Ganguly took over in 2000 itself means how much Indian cricket had slumped.

New Indian generation didn't just come out in vacuum. If the new generation can do wonders then by now, we should be regularly qualifying for football World cups & winning tons of medals in Olympics. All that the "New Generation" hero Capt Dhoni did was take us back to old generation ways of losing series in England/Australia 4-0.

 

[Pollack]

By the very same criteria, Dhoni didn't do anything that was achieved the "1st time", including 2011 World cup victory. Considering that last overseas test victory came in 1986 before Ganguly took over in 2000 itself means how much Indian cricket had slumped.

New Indian generation didn't just come out in vacuum. If the new generation can do wonders then by now, we should be regularly qualifying for football World cups & winning tons of medals in Olympics. All that the "New Generation" hero Capt Dhoni did was take us back to old generation ways of losing series in England/Australia 4-0.

Good post.The lengths to which people want to glorify dhoni is nauseating.

 

[Tusker]

By the very same criteria, Dhoni didn't do anything that was achieved the "1st time", including 2011 World cup victory. Considering that last overseas test victory came in 1986 before Ganguly took over in 2000 itself means how much Indian cricket had slumped.

Dhoni remains the only captain to Win All 3 major World Titles and #1 Rank in Test Cricket + ODI Cricket ...

 

[Pollack]

Dhoni remains the only captain to Win All 3 major World Titles and #1 Rank in Test Cricket + ODI Cricket ...

No 1 test rank was offered to him on plate without doing much. We would have won t20 world cup without dhoni.

 

[R0H1T]

Dhoni remains the only captain to Win All 3 major World Titles and #1 Rank in Test Cricket + ODI Cricket ...

What's the big deal with that? He got a ready made team for tests & ODI in 2007~11, the team he shaped in 2015 got to the semis mainly because of our fast bowlers, there were big holes even in that squad & hence we lost handsomely against Aus.