Steve Smith - Next ATG in the making?

[Chrish]

I seriously admire this lad.. He seems like the combination of Ponting (consistency wise) and Steve Waugh (fighter spirit). He is an amazing clutch player who doesn't bottle under pressure. I regard him as second best ODI bat right now (yes better than Kohli, Amla etc.) And he has played some good knocks in Test as well. Feels like series against India was the beginning and there is much more to come.

So, can he become ATG in future? Punter, then Clark and now Smith..

 

[JaDed]

If he performs outside Aus he could do well.

 

[Chrish]

If he performs outside Aus he could do well.

He already has against strongest Test bowling unit.. In series against SA, he scored 100, 49, 0, 84 and 36* in 5 innings (ave 67.2) against Steyn, Morkel and Philander and this series was in SA..

 

[leatherface58]

If he performs outside Aus he could do well.

He was the only one who wasn't totally owned on Indian dustbowls. Did okay in England as well.

Don't know about ATG but he will atleast end up an Aussie great.

 

[JaDed]

He was the only one who wasn't totally owned on Indian dustbowls. Did okay in England as well.

Don't know about ATG but he will atleast end up an Aussie great.

Well basically he is Kohli for them HTB and not totally owned in other countries.Don't see that making him a great.Plus i think bowlers might figure out his worm movement across the crease.

 

[JaDed]

He already has against strongest Test bowling unit.. In series against SA, he scored 100, 49, 0, 84 and 36* in 5 innings (ave 67.2) against Steyn, Morkel and Philander and this series was in SA..

Asia?Is that never counted as a test match destination?

 

[Convict]

Asia?Is that never counted as a test match destination?

Smith didn't do to bad in India and in the UAE.

I wouldn't call him a HTB just yet

 

[cricketindiafan]

Best young batsman in the World and he sealed his spot through this WC performance where Kohli, Williamson, Angelo Mathews, Root could not do much.

 

[zabalestmsm]

Hopefully. The way he is rising is impressive.

 

[Random Aussie]

Asia?Is that never counted as a test match destination?

Just to humour your bitterness, no it doesn't count. Not even Asian fans rate runs scored in Asia.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Just to humour your bitterness, no it doesn't count. Not even Asian fans rate runs scored in Asia.

Thats where Aussie team has floundered.In slow low turning pitches of Asia.So it does count how non Asian Batsmen play in Asia.

 

[Varun]

Just to humour your bitterness, no it doesn't count. Not even Asian fans rate runs scored in Asia.

That is irrelevant and one from the Asian perspective. As far as Australian batsmen are concerned, they shouldn't expect to be called Bradmen after merely pounding some easy runs on Australian slabs while flopping in the UAE, India and England. Steve Smith so far is faring even worse than Clarke and Hussey in this regard:

Saying runs don't count in territory Y and Z just because your future hero doesn't score there is a case of sour grapes and a coping technique.

 

[Sami92]

Steven Smith is a legend in the making. I was so impressed with his temperament when he played in UAE last year against Pak. In T20, there was a match in IPL 2014 where he & Faulkner won the match for Rajasthan Royals from nowhere. This Aussie summer will remain something for Steven Smith, from piling up centuries to captaining to world cup winning.

 

[Slog]

That is irrelevant and one from the Asian perspective. As far as Australian batsmen are concerned, they shouldn't expect to be called Bradmen after merely pounding some easy runs on Australian slabs while flopping in the UAE, India and England. Steve Smith so far is faring even worse than Clarke and Hussey in this regard:

Saying runs don't count in territory Y and Z just because your future hero doesn't score there is a case of sour grapes and a coping technique.

to gain a clearer picture need to look at his stats beyond 2013. thats when he started playing as a batsman.

also no one quotes odi stats ever

id like to see his test record. And i belive that will sort it itself out

 

[Slog]

In test cricket Steve Smith averages

66 in Aus
34 in Eng (mind you he played some of his tests there as a bowler)
40 in India
67 in SA
44 in UAE

So I dont know why this myth is peddled that he has failed outside Australia. and why is that it is certain indian fans who are doing this?

 

[Slog]

really funny that [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] conveneinetly quotes ODI stats.

no one cares abt ODI stats when they are talking abt players overall records.

the fact that you quoted them shows an agenda.

 

[Convict]

That is irrelevant and one from the Asian perspective. As far as Australian batsmen are concerned, they shouldn't expect to be called Bradmen after merely pounding some easy runs on Australian slabs while flopping in the UAE, India and England. Steve Smith so far is faring even worse than Clarke and Hussey in this regard:

Saying runs don't count in territory Y and Z just because your future hero doesn't score there is a case of sour grapes and a coping technique.

Pretty selective stats.

The most relevant ones in regards to Smith are 2013 onwards.





From 2010 to 2012 he wasn't good enough to be in the team on merit. He got dropped, worked hard and improved his game and returned to the test team.

He performed moderately well in India and England and continued to improve.

His improvements got him into the ODI team where he finally got an opportunity in the top order in the UAE and scored a century.

The 2011-2012 and 2013-2015 split is the most relevant in regards to Smith but it doesn't suit your narrative

 

[Varun]

also no one quotes odi stats ever

This is only a slightly better copout than the one which suggests that performances in place X don't matter that is why his record is bad at X.

to gain a clearer picture need to look at his stats beyond 2013. thats when he started playing as a batsman.

And this ranks third. More filtering. You'd think if he was/is that good, his number would speak for themselves.

 

[Slog]

This is only a slightly better copout than the one which suggests that performances in place X don't matter that is why his record is bad at X.



And this ranks third. More filtering. You'd think if he was/is that good, his number would speak for themselves.

youre avoiding the argument

and secondly his numbers speak for themselves n the only format which matters when determining the success of a cricketer

Tendulkar is rated for his test numbers not his ODI numbers

 

[Slog]

im really finding it hard to take a guy seriously who quotes ODI numbers to bring a guy down.

in any case those numbers will take care of themselves.

 

[Convict]

This is only a slightly better copout than the one which suggests that performances in place X don't matter that is why his record is bad at X.



And this ranks third. More filtering. You'd think if he was/is that good, his number would speak for themselves.

 

[Varun]

and secondly his numbers speak for themselves n the only format which matters when determining the success of a cricketer

Er, I'd much rather pick Rahul Dravid in an all-time XI with solid stats in both tests and ODIs than somebody like Alastair Cook who is possibly slightly better in tests but couldn't care less about the other format.

 

[Convict]

So pre 2013 Smith averaged 24 in Australia, 24 in England, 28 in India, 26 in South Africa and 21.50 in Sri Lanka.

Not really seeing any evidence of performing well in Australia and poorly everywhere else.

 

[Varun]

(Stats)

So why was he poor for upto five years into his career?

 

[Convict]

So why was he poor for upto five years into his career?

Loose technique, concentration issues, getting used as a lower order slogger and just wasn't ready for international cricket.

He had a run in the international team, didn't perform, got dropped, worked hard and improved enough to warrant reselection.

Steve Waugh averaged in the mid 20s over his first 26 tests.

 

[Slog]

Er, I'd much rather pick Rahul Dravid in an all-time XI with solid stats in both tests and ODIs than somebody like Alastair Cook who is possibly slightly better in tests but couldn't care less about the other format.

Dravid ddnt average even 40 in ODIs lol. by your logic smith is better than him as he averages better than dravid in both formats and at better strike rates

The reason why i think you have some agenda against Smith is you trying toput him down like this. He is only 25 and has has 2 back to back great seasons. It may just be a purple patch but looks like it wont be. Either case you putting hm down is irrational

 

[Slog]

So why was he poor for upto five years into his career?

Tendulkar didnt score his first odi century till after playing 70+ matches

so he was a failure?

 

[Slog]

anyways im off. this is the most ridiculous argument put forward by Varun and is devoid of any ratonality. dunno whether he is doing to believe sth he wants to or genuinely thinks that

 

[Random Aussie]

Whole thread smells like delicious bitter Indian fans to me

 

[Enforcer]

Definitely a future ATG. He is like Chandrapaul. Look ugly at the crease, but extremely effective. I don't think he has any weak spot, or may be he is hiding it with perfection.

 

[ihsri aha]

Kohli got owned in Engerland [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION]

 

[JaDed]

Lets wait for Kohli till 2015 Oct and then count his stats i guess that's how its done nowadays??

 

[trogger]

So why was he poor for upto five years into his career?

When matt hayden was nearly 30 he had just one test ton and was thought no chance to play many odi matches, he finished his career with 30 tons and as the leading run scorer in an unbeaten WC campaign.

So from time to time cricketers improve after their early 20's, it's likely a shock for you to hear that but it's been known to happen.

 

[JaDed]

Kohli got owned in Engerland [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION]

Yeah and Smith was only decent in 2 Asian countries lets see when he tours SL and Bangla(this year).

 

[JibranAnsari]

Has done well so far but it is the consistency and longevity which makes an ATG , lets see if he conforms to these standards.

 

[WC-Passion]

Doing well at home, now I want to see how he does outside of Australia. I don't think he'll flop, he looks to be in good form.

 

[Robert]

Just to humour your bitterness, no it doesn't count. Not even Asian fans rate runs scored in Asia.

I think it counts. I rate England's recent success in India as their best test series win since the last-but one away Ashes.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

really funny that [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] conveneinetly quotes ODI stats.

no one cares abt ODI stats when they are talking abt players overall records.

the fact that you quoted them shows an agenda.

ODI stats are the only international ones that will really matter. 30 years now, kids won't even have ever watched a Test, let alone care about who had good statistics in it.

 

[Convict]

ODI stats are the only international ones that will really matter. 30 years now, kids won't even have ever watched a Test, let alone care about who had good statistics in it.

Funnily enough it's ODI cricket that is on the verge of dying over here in Australia.

Purists go for the tests and others go for the T20

 

[Slog]

ODI stats are the only international ones that will really matter. 30 years now, kids won't even have ever watched a Test, let alone care about who had good statistics in it.

they will still quote it

its funny how ive been hearing all my life how test cricket is dying but in truth odi is in more danger

 

[mithun_minhas]

Has Steve Smith hit a puprle patch or is he for real?

I remember Alistair Cook looking invincible in Test arena a couple of years ago. Now he bats like a tailender.

Steve Smith is very good against pacers. Against Spinners, he almost jumps out of his crease everytime to score. Might work in Aus and NZ or SA where the ball does not spin much. When playing in India, he will be stumped.

The next Test series in India will be a huge challenge for him.

 

[Bullet Drive]

When he's out of form, he'll look ridiculous.

But tbh I've always rated him. Even in 2010!

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Steve Smith has potential to be an elite top tier ATG let alone normal ATG.

But since we have seen a lot of stuff in Cook, Pujara and Kohli (who looked invincible before meeting Anderson and still hasn't recovered fully)..I will wait.

Let the sample set of matches + years decide whether he will make it or not.

And by the way, Steve Smith's poor records outside of Aus in Tests was before he became this good.

Recently when he toured SA, he did extremely well. And he did well in UAE too.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Whole thread smells like delicious bitter Indian fans to me

Over 90% of Indian fans rate Steve Smith.

As of now, he has been Bradman against us and very very good against others.

I am sick of him.

 

[Amir]

Still early as ATG sustain performance over a long period. But thus far, he has shown he can play in all conditions. Even plays spin pretty well for an Aussie. Probably the most exciting bat right now. Followed by KW. Except he can accelerate his SR much quicker. Kohli and Pujara are there too but a horror tour of England has dented their reputation.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

As Bullet Drive says when he is out of form, he may struggle big time.

The way he walks across the wicket and slaps the ball on the onside is amazing to watch (makes bowlers look helpless) but when out of form, he would keep getting lbw.

As of now, we can only speculate what will happen.

 

[Abdullah719]

Has Steve Smith hit a puprle patch or is he for real?

I remember Alistair Cook looking invincible in Test arena a couple of years ago. Now he bats like a tailender.

Steve Smith is very good against pacers. Against Spinners, he almost jumps out of his crease everytime to score. Might work in Aus and NZ or SA where the ball does not spin much. When playing in India, he will be stumped.

The next Test series in India will be a huge challenge for him.

Has already played 4 Tests in Asia and didn't look out of place at all. Looked far better than all the other bats, in fact.

 

[Buffet]

I was impressed by Smith even in Asian conditions. He is one of the rare Aus players who can play spin well in current line up. I liked what I saw even in Eng.

Having said that ATG kind word is stretching it too much. Too early to use that kind of tag even as potential for Smith at this moment. He is having a good run right now but I would want him to get somewhat similar consistency when touring other venues for a long period before even thinking about such tags.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Too early to call OP

He is 25

I remember his first innings against us in England - looked plucky but limited.

Now he looks brilliant and almost impossible to stop.

His work ethic is truly amazing.

For now, he is a challenger to ABDV and Kohli to the title of the best batsman of their era

Where he ends up on the ATG list, is a question for another day ..

 

[soso_killer]

We should not get ahead of ourselves here.
An ATG is something else all together. Consistency, match winning/saving performances in difficult conditions or against the odds etc how he does against the best attack of his era, scoring away from home (my criteria is 50, with a few exceptions though) etc.
Remember Smith is playing in a semi decent team with a good bowling attack and may cop unfair criticism at times, like "why did he not give hi bowlers something to bowl at?". Its how he rises against prejudice that will determine his status, and at some stage like most great players will have to fight the demons in his own head when runs aren't coming (either through form or bad technique getting exposed).

But he does have all the tools of becoming a very good player of international standards, its up to him how far he wants to take that. The tools are there, he is no slouch against spin, handled SA in SA very well (but must come back for more). Let him play a bit, the next 4 years may tell us were he is headed.
(Looking forward to K. Williamson and Rahane as well.)

 

[soso_killer]

So why was he poor for up to five years into his career?

AB de Villiers averaged 33 in his first 30 matches or so, had sub par to mediocre averages in most countries including his home land. He would later on make a bold decree "I want to be the best bat in the world". He dully delivered, today averages 40 in every country bar Bangladesh.

So it can be done, its not how you start your international career, but how you progress and finish it.
Players from other countries are allowed to be good/great, its not only Indians who have "birthright" to greatness. Indian fans need to accept that and give credit when its due.
A soon as there is a perceived threat to their rock stars (Kohli, Pujara, Dhoni etc) there is always an all out offence to put opposing players down, which is very disappointing.

 

[in_cutter]

What is the obsession with 'future ATG' on this forum?

 

[OZGOD]

I seriously admire this lad.. He seems like the combination of Ponting (consistency wise) and Steve Waugh (fighter spirit). He is an amazing clutch player who doesn't bottle under pressure. I regard him as second best ODI bat right now (yes better than Kohli, Amla etc.) And he has played some good knocks in Test as well. Feels like series against India was the beginning and there is much more to come.

So, can he become ATG in future? Punter, then Clark and now Smith..

Let's see how he plays a year from now, let along two.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Steve Smith has potential to be an elite top tier ATG let alone normal ATG.

But since we have seen a lot of stuff in Cook, Pujara and Kohli (who looked invincible before meeting Anderson and still hasn't recovered fully)..I will wait.

Let the sample set of matches + years decide whether he will make it or not.

And by the way, Steve Smith's poor records outside of Aus in Tests was before he became this good.

Recently when he toured SA, he did extremely well. And he did well in UAE too.

Really, you are labelling Kohli a failure? I don't see how he can be labelled along with Cook and Pujara who can't even play 2 out of 3 formats. He's the best ODI bat in the world, and his poor performance this WC was down to being handcuffed by Dhoni's stupid tactics, I don't see this issue lasting.

 

[Convict]

Really, you are labelling Kohli a failure? I don't see how he can be labelled along with Cook and Pujara who can't even play 2 out of 3 formats. He's the best ODI bat in the world, and his poor performance this WC was down to being handcuffed by Dhoni's stupid tactics, I don't see this issue lasting.

How does that explain his failure to score runs in the knockout matches?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Really, you are labelling Kohli a failure? I don't see how he can be labelled along with Cook and Pujara who can't even play 2 out of 3 formats. He's the best ODI bat in the world, and his poor performance this WC was down to being handcuffed by Dhoni's stupid tactics, I don't see this issue lasting.

I didn't say Kohli will always be a failure but right now he has a lot of work to do to sort out his issues.

He isn't the same invincible guy he was a year back.

 

[Enforcer]

Really, you are labelling Kohli a failure? I don't see how he can be labelled along with Cook and Pujara who can't even play 2 out of 3 formats. He's the best ODI bat in the world, and his poor performance this WC was down to being handcuffed by Dhoni's stupid tactics, I don't see this issue lasting.

And what are those stupid tactics please elaborate?

 

[Convict]

And what are those stupid tactics please elaborate?

Dhoni decided that Kohli shouldn't score any runs.

Which was a pretty stupid tactic.

 

[Enforcer]

Dhoni decided that Kohli shouldn't score any runs.

Which was a pretty stupid tactic.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

And what are those stupid tactics please elaborate?

The plan was that Kohli should bat slow and anchor the innings. Kohli is normally very responsible anyway, but this entire WC he had uncharacteristically slow and poor starts, and even in the game he scored a century he was dropped on 4 (17). Prior to this WC he never had an abysmal SR early in his innings. The instructions to bat slow really messed with him and they robbed us of all the momentum in the crucial SF. Before Dhawan was out we were winning; 2 overs until Kohli lost his wicket after sucking away 4 overs.

 

[Chrish]

Asia?Is that never counted as a test match destination?

I personally rate performances in SA far more important than elsewhere. SA wickets provide arguably toughest batting conditions..

While watching some players, you feel they are special. Smith to me looks different than the "crowd"..

 

[Random Aussie]

The plan was that Kohli should bat slow and anchor the innings. Kohli is normally very responsible anyway, but this entire WC he had uncharacteristically slow and poor starts, and even in the game he scored a century he was dropped on 4 (17). Prior to this WC he never had an abysmal SR early in his innings. The instructions to bat slow really messed with him and they robbed us of all the momentum in the crucial SF. Before Dhawan was out we were winning; 2 overs until Kohli lost his wicket after sucking away 4 overs.

This is the Indian variation of "Misbah makes everyone else bad badly" PP meme.

Kohli had a bad WC not because of anyone other than Virat Kohli.

 

[test_fan]

He is one ugly looking batsman but mighty effective. I will reserve my judgement for some more time.

 

[WrexEverything]

He's a brilliant batsman. Didn't like his technique when I first saw him and thought he wouldn't be much more than an average test batsman. But he's improved his batting to a tremendous degree. And for me, it all started when i watched him bat in a test match in India in the series where we beat them 4-0. He scored around 90 runs and made them in the most composed and unhurried manner. Seeing an Australian batsman not used to the low bounce and turn of Indian pitches adapt so well and use his feet perfectly to spinners was very impressive. The fact that he could also incorporate one of Ponting's strengths into his batting (shuffling across the stumps to fast bowlers and clip them through the on side, while still maintaining awareness of the off stumps) was a sign of a tremendous talent.

After that, his career trajectory has just gone one way. Up. I will be surprised if he doesn't end up an All time great batsman.

 

[Mamoon]

An ATG in the making in both Tests and ODIs.

It is disturbing how underrated he is on this forum. What a wonderful, wonderful batsman and a quality captain as well.

Apparently for some, it is only a matter of time before he gets 'found out', but we have been hearing it for 4 years now and here we are.

 

[vandokkum]

Smith also Doesn't have the luxury of scoring many soft runs, considering he plays in one of the weakest ever Australian batting sides. Also doesn't hide lower down the order while being the captain

 

[Mamoon]

30+ hundreds in both formats are there for the taking. Has already done it in a World Cup.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

If he performs well in India tour he'll be the best batsman in the world for sure. But he hasn't played many matches outside Aus and England so it remains to be seen how well he does in Asia (which is the biggest challenge for non-Asian batsmen).

 

[The_Odd_One]

Already an ATG if the match is played in Australia. Outside, he has to do a lot more to be an ATG.

 

[Hasan123]

Performed in a World Cup, scored match winning centuries in the ashes home and away, match winning century in South Africa, averages 40 plus in most countries. Just needs to improve his Odi away record and have good series in subcontinent and he'll be ATG. He's well on his way.

Might be on my own here but I enjoy watching him bat, the way he walks across his stumps and dispatches the ball through the legside is brilliant to watch. Also plays well through extra cover and mid off. Very good vs spin which is rare for the current Australian batsmen. One of my favourite players currently.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Best Test batsman in world cricket. Unbelievable consistency.

 

[Aman]

Has outperformed Kohli in his backyard so far.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Best batsman and a big match player.

I think one main reason Aus won the world cup was Steve Smith who provided calm in quarter, semi and wc final.

 

[Hasan123]

A atg in the making.

 

[Protea Fan]

He is calm,composed and unorthodox or you can rather say old school,all this makes difficult to intimidate him

I always felt that he's comfortable with the spin.His stance makes discomfort for the bowlers to bowl the correct line.If you don't get enough turn on the pitch, he will definitely pile up runs easily.He can play waiting game for long time to make it simple he will not allow a bowler to work on him

Today he has had some luck but the kind of grit he shown to score runs on a tough wicket proves his quality.....easily the best batsman right now and definitely an ATG in making

 

[Mamoon]

Champion cricketer.

 

[Chrish]

This game doesn't tell us anything.. not to say he isn't quality

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Root better? I don't think so.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

He is on track to be ATG if he carries on performing like this.

60 average with balanced records is staggering.

 

[WC-Passion]

Thought he'd do well, he's shown great form since his return to the team for a couple of years now.