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Steven Smith slowly becoming a HTB/FTB?

Firebreaker

Firebreaker

ODI Debutant
Joined
May 25, 2014
Runs
9,233
I think Smith is going in the route of Michael Clarke on becoming a Flat Track Bully/Home Track Bully.His form has been dismal in this series except for that double century.If that's how things are going future isn't looking good for Australia and South Africa will remain top Test side for years to come
 
Just a couple of Tests back he was the bees-knees, now he's anything but....the word fickle comes to mind.
 
He's not a complete FTB but he does have a problem with his offstump in testing conditions.
 
When you move across that much it becomes very difficult to leave the ball resulting in him playing nearly every ball which is not a good recipe in England where the ball swings miles. Eventually, one's got your name on it.
 
One day a batsman is one of the best in the world, next day turns into FTB/HTB.
 
Smith is a champion against Trundlers and medium fast bowlers on flat beds. His weakness of walking across the stumps will never be exposed when the ball is coming gunbarrell straight.

The series against India and in Worldcup, the pitches were very flat with true bounce. He could walk across the stumps all day and flick the bowlers for boundaries all day.
 
He's not a number three imo. Would be best at five or even at four. But then again can't think of anyone who would succeed at three around the world for the Aussies right now.
 
Lurker_Ind said:
Smith is a champion against Trundlers and medium fast bowlers .
Click to expand...

EH? Played Pak's pacers superbly, spin equally well in the UAE. Success everywhere else. Ton (or double?) in the current Ashes tour.

And here we have experts terming him as good only against trundlers.

He has already done better than what Kohli did in the entire England tour so far.
 
His double wasnt exactly on the most challenging or typical of English tracks, still waiting for him to score in swinging conditions such as these.
 
Smith was always going to struggle in number 3 spot against the moving ball and high quality pace bowling, whilst it may have been seen as a brave move to put him in that postion his natural game and technic pretty much dictate that hes more suited to batting 5 or 6.
 
Been a series of two halves for him - over 300 runs in his first 4 innings but only around 20-30 runs in last 4 innings. When he did click in the Lords Test, it ended up winning Australia the game. He's too good of a batsman to not be able to overcome this dip in form and I think we might only have to wait till just the Oval Test to see a revival in his batting.
 
Haroon786 said:
Been a series of two halves for him - over 300 runs in his first 4 innings but only around 20-30 runs in last 4 innings. When he did click in the Lords Test, it ended up winning Australia the game. He's too good of a batsman to not be able to overcome this dip in form and I think we might only have to wait till just the Oval Test to see a revival in his batting.
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If you take out that 200 he scored at the average of 20 or 30 in first 3 innings
 
My personal opinion is that he has a suspect technique; the tendency to walk across the stumps gets him in trouble, more so against the moving ball.

He has had a phenomenal couple of years but there are flaws in his technique.

I think he suffers with a few of the issues Shiv Chanderpaul has seen during the earlier part of his career.
 
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Firebreaker said:
If you take out that 200 he scored at the average of 20 or 30 in first 3 innings
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Got a brace of 33s in the first Test and made a rapid 50 as well in his 4th innings when he easily could have been more conservative and looked for another 100.
 
Hawkeye said:
EH? Played Pak's pacers superbly, spin equally well in the UAE. Success everywhere else. Ton (or double?) in the current Ashes tour.

And here we have experts terming him as good only against trundlers.

He has already done better than what Kohli did in the entire England tour so far.
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Its his second tour while it was Kohli's first. For a player of his calibre though he's not really stood up and made himself count apart from 1 innings.
 
He's been in the form of his life. A few bad innings isn't going to change that.
 
Amjid Javed said:
Smith was always going to struggle in number 3 spot against the moving ball and high quality pace bowling, whilst it may have been seen as a brave move to put him in that postion his natural game and technic pretty much dictate that hes more suited to batting 5 or 6.
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Problem is the Aussies have about 4 number 5 or 6.
 
He's Bradman against the poor attacks of India and Windies and more like Lyth against Pakistan and England.

The Aussies can't bat in England or the subcontinent. That just leaves Oz and SA. Would seem to be the very definition of HTBs.
 
Amoeba said:
He's Bradman against the poor attacks of India and Windies and more like Lyth against Pakistan and England.

The Aussies can't bat in England or the subcontinent. That just leaves Oz and SA. Would seem to be the very definition of HTBs.
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Was South Africa a poor bowling attack? He did well in the subcontinent as well.
 
Sachin136 said:
Was South Africa a poor bowling attack? He did well in the subcontinent as well.
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No one saying it was, but conditions / attack most like Australia outside of Australia.

He's ok but he isn't top class or worthy of number 1 ranking.
 
Hasn't played a lot in the Subcontinent but averages low 40s. Ok but nothing great.
 
Amoeba said:
Hasn't played a lot in the Subcontinent but averages low 40s. Ok but nothing great.
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That average includes matches he played as a lower order batsman/bowler. As a batsman he has transformed mainly in the last 2-3 years.
 
Sam1 said:
Assume he's lost the #1 rank to Root now anyway.
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He should be down to 3 or 4 after this game maybe. Longer term probably about 6-10 is a fairer reflection.
 
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Sachin136 said:
That average includes matches he played as a lower order batsman/bowler. As a batsman he has transformed mainly in the last 2-3 years.
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True - but that is simply form - class is permanent and it is showing now. Not the best batsman in the World.
 
If Smith can average 60+ at home and 40+ in all countries barring one (UAE) then I think Aussie fans will be happy to have him
 
Slog said:
If Smith can average 60+ at home and 40+ in all countries barring one (UAE) then I think Aussie fans will be happy to have him
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They will be happy to have anyone if Shaun Marsh and Mitchell Marsh can get in the top 6.
 
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Some would say he already is, in ODIs.
 
Varun said:
qQDTeVg.png


Some would say he already is, in ODIs.
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He hasn't played any ODIs in Bangladesh, England, India or Sri lanka after his "transformation"... The only places he played in after are Australia, New Zealand and UAE which is why he has amazing records there (except New Zealand but he only played 1 match there).
 
he wasn't even a odi regular until right before the home WC summer which is where the bulk of his runs came from, quit your trolling or at least use better bait.
 
Sachin136 said:
No but I don't think it is possible to drop 20+ points in one match for a batsman.
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He was behind De Villiers after the first game and Root will obviously have gained some so I'd say there's a fair chance of it.
 
There is no shame in shielding your best batsman from the new or moving ball.

Even Bradman saved himself during his famous innings of 270 from the conditions. Because he knew, once going gets easier, no one has the ability to go as big as he himself.

Aus need players at the top who takes the responsibility of taking the shine off the ball. Warner can be match-winner on some occasions but would expose the middle order too early on other occasions.

By playing Smith at number 3, Aus have taken a huge risk (understandable since they don't have options), which didn't pay off (apart from one innings). By doing so, they are playing their strongest card too early, and if it don't work, its game over for them. And chances of it not working are greater than had that card been played later.

He isn't an HTB/FTB, but he isn't flawless either. Has his strengths and weaknesses and its upto the team and management how they get the maximum out of his strengths.
 
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Amoeba said:
Hasn't played a lot in the Subcontinent but averages low 40s. Ok but nothing great.
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It's actually a very good average if you are not talking about the sample size. Smith in Asia is similar to Aisan batsmen outside of Asia. To put it in perspective , here is list of all Asian batsmen outside Asia with 40+ avg with 4+ Tests,

out.jpg


Likes of YK, Ganguly averaged barely above 40. VVS is in lower 40. Among current players, we have Sanga and Kohli in lower 40-45 range as well. So averaging 40-45 in unfamiliar environment is a very good average. You are right about the low sample size but that's a different issue.
 
Buffet said:
It's actually a very good average if you are not talking about the sample size. Smith in Asia is similar to Aisan batsmen outside of Asia. To put it in perspective , here is list of all Asian batsmen outside Asia with 40+ avg with 4+ Tests,

View attachment 59010


Likes of YK, Ganguly averaged barely above 40. VVS is in lower 40. Among current players, we have Sanga and Kohli in lower 40-45 range as well. So averaging 40-45 in unfamiliar environment is a very good average. You are right about the low sample size but that's a different issue.
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Why didn't you just show the statistics for non-Asian batsman's averages in Asia?
 
Sachin136 said:
Why didn't you just show the statistics for non-Asian batsman's averages in Asia?
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Sanga, Kohli, YK, VVS etc are talked more in this forum so I used Asian batsmen as example here. I didn't really think much but I just checked Non-Asians in Asia and that sample set is actually much better when it comes to batting average. Smith's 40 average looks less impressive from that angle.
 
Buffet said:
It's actually a very good average if you are not talking about the sample size. Smith in Asia is similar to Aisan batsmen outside of Asia. To put it in perspective , here is list of all Asian batsmen outside Asia with 40+ avg with 4+ Tests,

View attachment 59010


Likes of YK, Ganguly averaged barely above 40. VVS is in lower 40. Among current players, we have Sanga and Kohli in lower 40-45 range as well. So averaging 40-45 in unfamiliar environment is a very good average. You are right about the low sample size but that's a different issue.
Click to expand...

How do Umar Akmal and Taufeeq Umar average move than Younis and Ganguly? :))
 
Ganguly was a pathetic test batsman..
 
This is his first bad series since 2012-2013 and he still managed a double hundred. Overreaction.
 
He is not a #3 batsman that is for sure, very flawed technique.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
 
It isn't an overreaction if you have watched the series. A couple of things to bear in mind are the number of failures. He hasn't scored more than 33 in 4 out of 6 innings. Shows a level of inconsistency. Secondly even with the double hundred he was dropped on 50.

As for the stats - yes the best analysis is compare him to other non Asian players in Asia. Generally averages are higher in Asia than outside.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
 
Amoeba said:
It isn't an overreaction if you have watched the series. A couple of things to bear in mind are the number of failures. He hasn't scored more than 33 in 4 out of 6 innings. Shows a level of inconsistency. Secondly even with the double hundred he was dropped on 50.

As for the stats - yes the best analysis is compare him to other non Asian players in Asia. Generally averages are higher in Asia than outside.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
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+1.He looks extremely different player in this series what we saw him in India series
 
Smith scores in the series if we take out 215: 33,33,45,8,7,6,5. Pretty substandard for the top batsmen in the world.
 
He has been massively overhyped because he's young and going through a purple-patch. He was never the best batsman in the world and I don't see him maintaining his average of 50+ in tests either.
 
Sachin136 said:
Was South Africa a poor bowling attack? He did well in the subcontinent as well.
Click to expand...

I've written about this elsewhere.

Steve Smith is a FTB who is good against pretty much all bowling except for seam (not swing).

He's fine against bounce and swing, which is why he did well v South Africa and Pakistan.

Quality leg-spin remains an unknown quantity.

His weakness is against seam bowling a fraction outside off-stump which either moves in to the stumps (off-cutter) or away to the slips (leg-cutter).

His exaggerated movement outside off-stump before the ball arrives makes him very vulnerable to quality seam bowling. He is afraid of being bowled behind his legs, so he gets squared up playing balls on a 4th and even 5th stump line, and he plays risky and unnecessary strokes to balls headed for 6th or even 7th stump.

The problem is that the movement away from grassy pitches has driven most seam (as opposed to swing) bowlers out of the game. Nowadays there really is only Mohammad Asif left, although Ehsan Adil and Josh Hazlewood have the physical attributes to bowl that style.
 
No offence to the OP but this thread is stupid. He's made runs in England, India, South Africa, the UAE and the WI. He scored a double hundred and a fifty two Tests ago in an away Test. Get real.
 
Is he a HTB? Demonstrably not. Since re-entering the side in 2013 he has batted with distinction in India, England twice, West Indies, South Africa, and UAE.

Is he an FTB? Probably. But then in this brave new world we're in, a top class FTB is guaranteed one hundred per series minimum, if not three or four, no matter where in the world the series is taking place. So he'll probably still end up with 40-50 test hundreds and 12,000 runs.
 
Random Aussie said:
No offence to the OP but this thread is stupid. He's made runs in England, India, South Africa, the UAE and the WI. He scored a double hundred and a fifty two Tests ago in an away Test. Get real.
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Then failed to pass 10 runs in the next two Tests
 
Doesn't have the technique for facing such high quality swing bowling.

But very few people do, It's high quality for a reason.

The one match where the conditions were somewhat easier to negotiate he scored a double hundred.

His unorthodox technique is not suitable for exaggerated lateral movement. Luckily for him he won't have to face such conditions too often.

Get a solid batsman at number 3 and move him down to 4. Once Smith gets going he keeps going and going until he makes the opposition cry.

A number 3 with a solid technique will do Australia and Smith a world of good.
 
Chrish said:
Lol he was beyond woeful against short pitch stuff.
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His contributions in overseas tours during the 2000's is overlooked due to him being part of a dream batting line up.

He scored vital runs during the 2003 Aus tour, 2006 SA tour, 2007 England Tour etc. despite having a terrible time against short pitched stuff.

A gutsy test captain and a very good test batsman who scored some really important runs. An Indian great in my book easily.
 
Rahane's stats. Wow. That guy has played almost everywhere & still going strong. Underrated for sure.
 
Scrolln said:
His contributions in overseas tours during the 2000's is overlooked due to him being part of a dream batting line up.

He scored vital runs during the 2003 Aus tour, 2006 SA tour, 2007 England Tour etc. despite having a terrible time against short pitched stuff.

A gutsy test captain and a very good test batsman who scored some really important runs. An Indian great in my book easily.
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Agreed. I remember he made a brilliant hundred against Australia at the 'Gabba in 2003. 144* I think.
 
Amla, AB, Williamson and Rahane are the only current test batsmen who have the technique to flourish on all kinds of wickets.
 
How does struggling vs swing for a few tests=flat track bully anyway?

In the sydney ashes test smith made a ton on a green deck that both top 6's flopped badly on in the first few days(only haddin reached 50 from either side), he made a great ton vs SA coming in at 4/90 on a fast bowler friendly deck, how are these flat decks?

I think he should be at 4 and his shot selection this series has been mostly poor but the idea that he has only cashed in on flat tracks is just rubbish.
 
some people have so much time on there hand, that they make hero's one day and then turn them into zero's
 
Let the guy breathe.. He is a class batsman and will surely get back to scoring.
 
IndianWillow said:
Amla, AB, Williamson and Rahane are the only current test batsmen who have the technique to flourish on all kinds
Amla has weakness against genuine pacers, he was left a tad exposed against mitchell johnson's bouncers in south africa, while as rehane has a problem against quality spin.except ab devilliers every batsman has its flaws.
Click to expand...
 
hussain123 said:
IndianWillow said:
Amla, AB, Williamson and Rahane are the only current test batsmen who have the technique to flourish on all kinds
Amla has weakness against genuine pacers, he was left a tad exposed against mitchell johnson's bouncers in south africa, while as rehane has a problem against quality spin.except ab devilliers every batsman has its flaws.
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Rahane has not and most probably will not face any quality spinners in the next 2-3 years until someone comes up.
He scored runs briskly against Lyon, Shakib and Ali in their backyard.He did get out to them while attacking but he has not struggled so far.SL tour will give a clear picture.
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Like I said before when Smith gets going he keeps going until he makes the opposition cry.

The openers did their job and he was sufficiently shielded from the new ball. And the results are there for all to see.

Get a solid number 3 and move Smith to 4.
 
Fahdi said:
Like I said before when Smith gets going he keeps going until he makes the opposition cry.

The openers did their job and he was sufficiently shielded from the new ball. And the results are there for all to see.

Get a solid number 3 and move Smith to 4.
Click to expand...

It was a flat wicket too.England batted poorly
 
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