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Sunil Narine retires from international cricket [Post#104]

MarkCooper

MarkCooper

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This is the problem with some mystery bowlers. Once people solve the mystery, your arsenal is weakened. His stock off-spin delivery is the thing he falls back on and it is not effective.

Here is his record for the last 6 months of his limited over career.

ODI Cricket

ODI.jpg


T20 Cricket

T20.jpg
 
But But Ramiz said he prefer Narine to Ajmal
 
The original mystery spinner Jack Iverson proved this. Keith Miller showed everyone how to play him and became useless.
 
The basics apply to any spinner, mystery or not.

You have to be very accurate to succeed and your stock off-spinning delivery must be good enough to carry your bowling efforts.

You cannot rely on the uncertainty created by variations without having that solid foundation.
 
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Burned out very quickly once batsmen found him out. Good for T20s and IPL though.
 
He's been bowling on some real flat decks lately, which doesn't help matters.
 
Those stats do not entirely suggest a decline. He remains potent in limited forms.
 
Dont worry, he will become a beast again when the IPL gets underway.

If you give him slow turning wickets like you find in SC, not many batsmen will feel comfortable against him.

And I have noticed one thing, once the weather is cool he really struggles to grip the ball properly as he rely on warm fingers.
 
What decline? he's the best in T20s and will soon be the best in ODIs as well.

Sensational.

Next Ajmal. Difficult to imagine how good he will be when he's as old as Ajmal since spin bowling is a craft that take years to master.
 
Ajmal is better in ODIs and T20s but Narine is a fantastic LOI bowler as well. Hasn't done anything in tests which is disappointing.
 
Bilal7 said:
Ajmal is better in ODIs and T20s but Narine is a fantastic LOI bowler as well. Hasn't done anything in tests which is disappointing.
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Spin bowling gets better with age generally.

Ajmal didn't kick on truly in Tests till 2011 and he was quite average in his few appearances for Pakistan.

I think it's only a matter of time before he starts devastating in Tests as well.
 
Mamoon said:
Spin bowling gets better with age generally.

Ajmal didn't kick on truly in Tests till 2011 and he was quite average in his few appearances for Pakistan.

I think it's only a matter of time before he starts devastating in Tests as well.
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Yeah. Hopefully a young spinner will get to his level when Ajmal, Abdur and Babar retire.
 
I think Narine will become a LOI specialist I don't see him being effective in Tests

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
Don't disrespect him by comparing Ajmal to him in T20s.
 
He just came off a tour of NZ which is a slaughter ground for limit overs spinners in recent years.
 
Just brilliant. Lol at the posts in this thread.
 
He is fast becoming my favorite cricketer. Just sensational.
 
Mamoon said:
I don't like Kohli much. Just because I think a player is fantastic doesn't mean I like him. :uakmal
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Kohli might be a tool, but I also don't see what's so great in narine's personality.
Well to each his own I guess.
 
battler said:
Kohli might be a tool, but I also don't see what's so great in narine's personality.
Well to each his own I guess.
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I don't like Kohli without any significant reason. Has nothing to do with his attitude, nationality, personality etc nothing. If he stops playing tomorrow, I won't miss him.

Not that I dislike him like certain players, I just don't like him.
 
Mamoon said:
I don't like Kohli without any significant reason. Has nothing to do with his attitude, nationality, personality etc nothing. If he stops playing tomorrow, I won't miss him.

Not that I dislike him like certain players, I just don't like him.
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Fair enough.
But if he stops playing tomorrow, you would end up missing watching a possible ATG in the making.
And we already have very few ATG's at the moment.
 
battler said:
Fair enough.
But if he stops playing tomorrow, you would end up missing watching a possible ATG in the making.
And we already have very few ATG's at the moment.
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Definitely an ATG in the making. Amazing batsman.
 
Mamoon said:
Definitely an ATG in the making. Amazing batsman.
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Yup really do hope he goes on to become an ATG.
On topic: Do u think Sunil Narine can become the best spinner in the world as far as tests are concerned now since swann has retired and ajmal seems to be on a decline?
And how long before he gets found out (if at all he does)
 
Spinners get better with time. At Narine's age, Swann and Ajmal were nowhere to be seen. He's already the best LOI spinner in the world and only a matter of time before he becomes the best in Tests as well. Too good.
 
Mamoon said:
Spinners get better with time. At Narine's age, Swann and Ajmal were nowhere to be seen. He's already the best LOI spinner in the world and only a matter of time before he becomes the best in Tests as well. Too good.
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But don't u think the batsmen will play him off in tests?
He's extremely good when u try to attack him, but not so good when u wait on him and just look for singles.
I predict he will do well against the non-sub continental sides, he might struggle against India and Sl, probably will struggle against South Africa as well.
 
Disagree with him being some sort of world beater. Mendis was ripping through every line up before and was chaotic against INDIA- the kings of spin players....Now where is he? People who don't have a stock delivery will never do well. He is useful in ODIs and T20s but even now Badree is clearly ahead in T20s. He is on a decline but he has the time to improve. He must learn to have a lethal offie and any other variation can be a small addition, maybe once an over. Now that he has variations, he should learn to have better control and effectively use flight...I don't think he can do this with T20 leagues like IPL around so if he doesn't pull his socks up, we will see a Mendis 2.0
 
Narine is only good when people are forced to attack him? Not true.

In a match last year, I think in the Caribbean Primiere League, a team had maybe three or four overs to get six or so runs. No need at all to attack Narine. Just block him. He has only 1 over to go. What's the worse he can do? And that's precisely what the batsmen did. They each attempted to block him, and yet 3 wickets fell in the space of 1 over, 2 edged to slips and keeper, one clean bowled. He is simply amazing, and the level of pressure he seems to put on the batsmen at times is simply incredible. A great bowler makes you believe anything is possible, and Narine seems to be able to do this at times, especially in the T20 format.
 
Haz95 said:
Disagree with him being some sort of world beater. Mendis was ripping through every line up before and was chaotic against INDIA- the kings of spin players....Now where is he? People who don't have a stock delivery will never do well. He is useful in ODIs and T20s but even now Badree is clearly ahead in T20s. He is on a decline but he has the time to improve. He must learn to have a lethal offie and any other variation can be a small addition, maybe once an over. Now that he has variations, he should learn to have better control and effectively use flight...I don't think he can do this with T20 leagues like IPL around so if he doesn't pull his socks up, we will see a Mendis 2.0
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Doesn't even have 40 T20 wickets and already hyped up to the moon by people with specific agendas. Pathetically bad in tests for a frontline spinner and hasn't been the best in ODI's either.

Exactly in the same place as Mendis was a few years ago, however, he does have age on his side and might end up becoming the #1 spinner in the world in the future. Right now though, he just hasn't played enough cricket to be given that accolade. :ajmal still carries it.
 
As long as he is ripping his offie hard, he will remain a threat. Also gets very good bounce - more than :ajmal anyway.I'm not comparing him to ajmal but he could,in the future, end up like him.
 
Narine >> Ajmal currently, at this age Ajmal was struggling in the domestic circuit and only became potent with his doosra
 
Myrmidon said:
Narine >> Ajmal currently, at this age Ajmal was struggling in the domestic circuit and only became potent with his doosra
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Yeah but spinners can also decline very quickly like saqlain so i don't think there's much of a comparison at all. Narine does have a lot of potential though :murali
 
The difference between ajmal and narine is ajmal plays half his matches on spinner friendly tracks. Give Narine the same tracks and he will surpass ajmal easily.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Yeah but spinners can also decline very quickly like saqlain so i don't think there's much of a comparison at all. Narine does have a lot of potential though :murali
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Spinners are like old wine. They get better with age eg: murali, warne, kumble, ajmal.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
The difference between ajmal and narine is ajmal plays half his matches on spinner friendly tracks. Give Narine the same tracks and he will surpass ajmal easily.
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Well, WI pitches aren't bad either. It is not as if they are green and don't assist spin. The pitches are slow and low, they grip and spin.
 
One can agree that Stats don't always tell the full story but Imma show some anyway regarding Narine...
In the slow pitches of India he averages a whopping 49.8
Add that too his general away average of 38 in 22 matches.
Currently, he's simply a HTB, not even a spin pitch bully. He averages a marshallesque 20.9 @31sr but away he's just another spinner.
As of now, he is simply nowhere near Ajmal in ODIs. In the 22 matches he played last year, he averaged a drab 35, in the 6 matches he's played this year, he's currently averaging 41. I don't really see how he's meant to be at Ajmals level at this age. Just remember guys that Mendis at the age of just 23 in his first year took 48 wickets in 13 matches @just 10.15 with a sr of 16. He got found out and declined. Currently Narine is following the same path as he's simply over relying on variation...He doesn't have good flight or dip which is required for a spinner to succeed and worse, he doesn't even have a stock offie.
 
If Narine at 26 was going to have Ajmal like stats, he would be the next Warne/Muralitharan. He isn't that, but he is a fantastic talent and will go further than any spinner post Warne/Muralitharan era.

Whether or not he will eclipse Ajmal is out of question, its a certainty in my book.

Those who are comparing him to Mendis have no idea what they are talking about. Narine is at a different level.
 
battler said:
But don't u think the batsmen will play him off in tests?
He's extremely good when u try to attack him, but not so good when u wait on him and just look for singles.
I predict he will do well against the non-sub continental sides, he might struggle against India and Sl, probably will struggle against South Africa as well.
Click to expand...

I don't think so.
 
Mamoon said:
If Narine at 26 was going to have Ajmal like stats, he would be the next Warne/Muralitharan. He isn't that, but he is a fantastic talent and will go further than any spinner post Warne/Muralitharan era.

Whether or not he will eclipse Ajmal is out of question, its a certainty in my book.

Those who are comparing him to Mendis have no idea what they are talking about. Narine is at a different level.
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I don't remember Narine taking 6fers against the best spin playing team in the World, do you?..That too in a final which caused SL to win the 2008 Asia cup.On top of that he has 2 T20 6fers which no1 in the history of the format has....And now you tell me how successful Mendis is currently. Narine is useful vs non SC teams and we can leave it at that but luckily he has time on his side. Maybe it just shows the quality of the spinners coming through.
 
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I am a Narine fan and I think he has been incredible in some games but Haz95 raises some fair points.

No stock delivery.

Not much usage of flight.

It can be an issue.

When not in zone, Narine goes for a LOT of runs without taking wickets.
 
lol I love Narine but he will be finished in a couple of years. Finger spinners like Mendis/Narine will never be successful over an extended period in Tests.

And yes the comparison is a fair one, both are finger spinners lol, whoever is saying 'Narine is on a different level' will be shown up a couple years down the track when he disappears from the Test/ODI scene.
 
People said the same about Ajmal when he burst onto the scene, that he is too reliant on the doosra and doesn't have a great off spinner. But unlike others, he is a quality bowler who has evolved and he doesn't have a good flight either, which is why he struggles on pitches that don't aid spin. He was toothless in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa apart from Cape Town where the pitch was slow and he got the ball to grip.

People can kid themselves that Narine will disappear in a year or two are in for a reality check.

Yes, Mendis took 6 fers against teams like India, but he wasn't a thinking bowler. He had variations which the batsmen had no clue off. Once they started to pick him, he lost potency. Narine too has variations, but he thinks and plans his bowling.

Clearly one of the sharpest brains around. People said he is an IPL bully, before he destroyed teams in T20s at the international level as well. He is only just started.
 
Ofcourse Narine is better than Mendis

Miles. I have seen a LOT of Narine to know it. Amazing bowler.

I feel Narine would go on to have a good ODI and T20 career (odds are high).

Reg tests, there is nothing that suggests he would do well. If you don't have proper flight, stock delivery, you can never make it in tests.

No bowler has ever made it in the past.

Let's see how it goes.
 
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Go ahead, differentiate the two bowlers based purely on their bowling skills (not taking into account the 'thinking bowler' quality, which is a rubbish way to analyse a player, as you and I both know). The difference between a spinner like Ajmal and a spinner like Narine is that Narine's variations are incredibly easy to pick once you've analysed the tape. You cannot hide your fingers at release. As much as you may hate to admit it this is fact. Ajmal and other doosra exponents have survived because their doosra looks very similar to their off spinner at release.

He has been great but not amazing in T20s, on pitches that have been very suited to his style of bowling. His poor ODI and Test record are indicative of where he's going to end up. On the scrapheap with Mendis.
 
Half of the cricket is played in the head. Kaneria had more variations than Warne and his variations were brilliant too, but the guy had no brain. He didn't know how to use his variations and how to outthink the batsman. He just bowled them based on his whims.

It's not just about skills only, if you give Ajmal's skills to another bowler, will he be able to replicate it? absolute nonsense. It is becoming a cliche, but take Kohli's example. there isn't a shot that Kohli plays that other batsmen cannot play, it's all about how he plans his batting and plays with the bowler's mind. That is what makes the difference for him.

Mendis and Narine have a similar skill-set, but Narine is a much more intelligent and thinking bowler, which would have him go from strength to strength rather than fade away.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFTR9OhG0N8
In this Video, Ajmal shows how to use the doosra to maximum effect. Also you can clearly see in this video that Ajmals stock offie is more than enough to be effective. In the end, Saeed bowled 2 back to back doosras which KP read well and then bowled a ripper of an offie where KP thought would be a doosra. This is the signs of a thinking bowler..Saqlain did the same. I'm sorry but I don't see Narine doing this. Most people who rely on the carrom ball tend to fail in tests and same with Doosras...People like Saqlain and Saeed have stock offies which is why they're successful. Also, you can see here that Saeed relies a lot on Pace which is another vital factor for proper variations which would help in tests...Someone like Graeme Swann did this regularly
Narine will get found out as he hasn't been playing for very long.
 
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Ajmal is a thinking bowler, it's not about how he has a great doosra. It's not about doosras and carrom balls; it's about using them effectively and playing with the batsman's mind.
 
Putting down such spinners because Mendis got found out is a popular thing to do, I get it but unfortunately, cricket is not about your skill-set only.
 
Without mind both Wahab Riaz and Mithcell Johnson are same. Now go ahead and differentiate them. I want to see how will you differentiate them and on what basis.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Without mind both Wahab Riaz and Mithcell Johnson are same. Now go ahead and differentiate them. I want to see how will you differentiate them and on what basis.
Click to expand...

Without brain, Sami and Steyn are pretty much the same too.
 
Haz95 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFTR9OhG0N8
In this Video, Ajmal shows how to use the doosra to maximum effect. Also you can clearly see in this video that Ajmals stock offie is more than enough to be effective. In the end, Saeed bowled 2 back to back doosras which KP read well and then bowled a ripper of an offie where KP thought would be a doosra. This is the signs of a thinking bowler..Saqlain did the same. I'm sorry but I don't see Narine doing this. Most people who rely on the carrom ball tend to fail in tests and same with Doosras...People like Saqlain and Saeed have stock offies which is why they're successful. Also, you can see here that Saeed relies a lot on Pace which is another vital factor for proper variations which would help in tests...Someone like Graeme Swann did this regularly
Narine will get found out as he hasn't been playing for very long.
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What an amazing piece of bowling and equally garbage piece of wicketkeeping
 
Narine is such a calm dude.

And it isn't like a facade of calm that he's putting on a la Samuels. He actually seems like that as a person and it comes from a supreme sense of self belief and the knowledge that he has everything under control.

Love watching him bowl.
 
Saqs said:
Narine is such a calm dude.

And it isn't like a facade of calm that he's putting on a la Samuels. He actually seems like that as a person and it comes from a supreme sense of self belief and the knowledge that he has everything under control.

Love watching him bowl.
Click to expand...

The thing I love about him is how nothing fazes him. He can get tonked but knows that he is ruling the roost.
 
All this talk of 'thinking bowler'or not does not have enough evidence at this stage. Narine hasn't even played 100 international games across formats and hasn't shown us what he can do when under pressure, when faced with a batsman going through insane form, when playing on pitches without turn, et cetera.

Every bowler looks great when things are going right for them, how Narine copes when things don't go as planned will tell us whether he goes the Mendis route or the Ajmal way. Which is why calling him the best spinner at this stage is really laughable and a knee-jerk reaction.
 
Saqs said:
Narine is such a calm dude.

And it isn't like a facade of calm that he's putting on a la Samuels. He actually seems like that as a person and it comes from a supreme sense of self belief and the knowledge that he has everything under control.

Love watching him bowl.
Click to expand...

So true. I find Bhuvi and Narine to be similar in this regard.
 
Narine never became great ,
So he can't go down when he never came up much,
 
Narine is actually more difficult to play then Ajmal nowadays. I remember, I was the one who criticized Ramiz for his preference of Narine over Ajmal.
 
Narine has a very good off b reak, which is good enough to classify him as a very good spinner. What he lacks in patience and metronomic accuracy which players like Murali demonstrated, If he becomes more patient and bowl 90% off breaks in tests, he will be a force to reckon with.
 
Saqs said:
What an amazing piece of bowling and equally garbage piece of wicketkeeping
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As awful as the wicketkeeping was there, keeping to a spinner, especially one of Ajmal's level, is the hardest part of wicketkeeping
 
Strangely, Ice cool nerves and patience seems to be Narine's strength to me.
 
Haz95 said:
As awful as the wicketkeeping was there, keeping to a spinner, especially one of Ajmal's level, is the hardest part of wicketkeeping
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I remember an interview long time back where Saqlain said that whenever he'd bowl the doosra, he would give an indication to Moin to get him ready. I think that is true for most spinners. Someone like Moin wasn't going to be able to pick Saqlain with the bat in his hand but he did decently against him with the gloves.

I'm sure Ajmal has coordination with our keepers too but Kamran is just too bad.
 
Mamoon said:
I remember an interview long time back where Saqlain said that whenever he'd bowl the doosra, he would give an indication to Moin to get him ready. I think that is true for most spinners. Someone like Moin wasn't going to be able to pick Saqlain with the bat in his hand but he did decently against him with the gloves.

I'm sure Ajmal has coordination with our keepers too but Kamran is just too bad.
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To be fair, Sarfraz is actually a pretty good keeper. He only recently dropped some in the SL series but he has some lightening fast stumpings. I'm pretty sure the whole concept of doosra was cos of moin/saqlain and thats how they used to communicate...'saqlain doosra bowl karo'.
Ajmal probably flicks his eyebrows lol
 
Safraz is a sound Wk no doubt, but I am not half sold on his batting ability. He fought like a warrior in his last Test but I'm waiting for a bigger sample.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poAkJP2eOKI
This is the video I was talking about....Absolutely perfectly executed. This is the only way you can exceed in tests with all these variations, as you can see here his stock offie is enough to get him wickets. Doing this against Batsmen who take steyn to the cleaners shows how much skill is required and currently Narine doesn't fit it
Mamoon said:
Safraz is a sound Wk no doubt, but I am not half sold on his batting ability. He fought like a warrior in his last Test but I'm waiting for a bigger sample.
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Altho he's no Kamran with the bat if he can provide a solid 50 down the order every 1 or 2 innings with maybe one match saving 100 every 6 or 7 innings, he would be more than useful in Pak terms
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
So true. I find Bhuvi and Narine to be similar in this regard.
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Really? I've seen Kumar kinda grimace and look nervous a lot of times. Narine is just like yeah whatever this is just a game and I'm better than most of you at it.
 
Mamoon said:
Strangely, Ice cool nerves and patience seems to be Narine's strength to me.
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Patience is of two kinds for spinners.

One is how the spinner reacts to being attacked or smashed. It will take patience to calm himself and stick to basics rather than start darting them through at the pads. Narine is good at this so far.

The other type of patience is being bale to hold back on all your variations. Knowing when to bowl what and for how long to shelf which delivery.

This is the art Narine will learn only with age and experience I guess and that will really prove whether or not he is going to be a great test spinner or just a limited overs specialist.
 
Interesting analysis by the IPL guys today on Narine's average bowling speed pre and post chucking. He is now bowling significantly slower and therefore is less effective.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
Interesting analysis by the IPL guys today on Narine's average bowling speed pre and post chucking. He is now bowling significantly slower and therefore is less effective.
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All chuckers bowl slower after modifying their actions don't they? I remember Ajmal firing in 70 mph doosras occasionally before his action was remodelled.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
Interesting analysis by the IPL guys today on Narine's average bowling speed pre and post chucking. He is now bowling significantly slower and therefore is less effective.
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You can impart spin on the bowl and spin the bowl at speed when chucking.But if you bowl without chucking you have to bowl like a traditional spinner.
 
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