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Suresh Raina - Highly underrated ODI batsman?

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saeedhk

Test Debutant
Joined
May 8, 2010
Runs
15,056
Raina is definitely one of the best ODI batsmen going around but I find it surprising that he is pretty underrated on this forum and amongst general cricket.

He is an indispensible batter in ODIs and has quite a few match-winning innings under his belt.

Not to forget,he is one of the best fielders in the world as well. Saves around 15-20 runs every match.

Discuss.
 
saeedhk said:
Raina is definitely one of the best ODI batsmen going around but I find it surprising that he is pretty underrated on this forum and amongst general cricket.

He is an indispensible batter in ODIs and has quite a few match-winning innings under his belt.

Not to forget,he is one of the best fielders in the world as well. Saves around 15-20 runs every match.

Discuss.
Click to expand...

Yes. He is under-rated though kohli, dhoni and AB are definitely better.
This guy gets a lot of stick for his poor performance in tests, which makes people under-rate his usefulness in odi's.
 
Great thread...

People talk a lot about ABD and Amla. Raina probably has more genuine game changing efforts to his name.
 
Yes he is one of the best LOIs batsmen going around and I don't think he is underrated on this forum at all. Yes he struggles against short pitched balls, but not many batsmen from SC are good against those deliveries either.
 
He is a great ODI batsman in sub continental conditions. Has a very good record in Eng as well as Nzl and WI I think

Obvious his problem is he record in Aus and SA.

The world cup is his defining period of his career .If he performs them will end up as an ODI great for India like Yuvi .

What's underrated is his ability under pressure .Along with Dhoni he one of the coolest finishers under pressure in Odis .

In T20s he is easily the best
 
IAJ said:
Yes he is one of the best LOIs batsmen going around and I don't think he is underrated on this forum at all. Yes he struggles against short pitched balls, but not many batsmen from SC are good against those deliveries either.
Click to expand...

True. Not many batsmen today (even from non sc countries) play the short pitch stuff well. Still remember of all the people, Ishant won India a test at Lords by bowling bouncers to English batsmen!!!!!
 
Underrated? I believe he's overrated. Why?

Umar Akmal has a better record than Raina. Can play better or at least equally better strokes.

But he gets the stick from PPers all the time. The same ones hype Raina even though he doesn't even a better record than Umar!
 
For me, he along with Kohli, Johnson, Gayle, Dhoni and Matthews are the only match winners on their day playing currently.
 
Hawkeye said:
Underrated? I believe he's overrated. Why?

Umar Akmal has a better record than Raina. Can play better or at least equally better strokes.

But he gets the stick from PPers all the time. The same ones hype Raina even though he doesn't even a better record than Umar!
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What all pressure games has Umar won you guys? WC game? CT? T20 WC? Final of a series? None.
 
Tridibans_16 said:
What all pressure games has Umar won you guys? WC game? CT? T20 WC? Final of a series? None.
Click to expand...

Umar is one the better players under pressure and he always steps up in big tournaments just like Misbah or other Indian batsmen who step up in big tournaments.

He's a genuine match changer and has won us many matches.
 
Good on flat tracks but becomes a bunny in the face of swing, bounce or even quality spin.

He's rated fairly, wouldn't make the World ODI XI but might make the Asian XI
 
Bilal7 said:
Good on flat tracks but becomes a bunny in the face of swing, bounce or even quality spin.

He's rated fairly, wouldn't make the World ODI XI but might make the Asian XI
Click to expand...

I agree he is not that good when the ball swings around/ seams like in Perth/ Jo'burg.

Now, tell me one SC batsman (currently playing ) who is a world beater in those conditions?

Fact is, when the pitch is difficult, even Inzamam felt it hard to score runs. Check his avg. in Eng/SA. Its not player specific.
 
Hawkeye said:
Umar is one the better players under pressure and he always steps up in big tournaments just like Misbah or other Indian batsmen who step up in big tournaments.

He's a genuine match changer and has won us many matches.
Click to expand...

This is a delusion.

Umar Akmal < Raina as a pure match winner.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
This is a delusion.

Umar Akmal < Raina as a pure match winner.
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OK, maybe in your eyes.

If I had to choose a number 5/6 between Raina and Umar, I know for certain that I'd go with Umar Akmal.

Can play better shots and has NO weakness against any sort of bowling. Great in SC, great on bouncy tracks and at that position he's a freak bat.
 
Tridibans_16 said:
I agree he is not that good when the ball swings around/ seams like in Perth/ Jo'burg.

Now, tell me one SC batsman (currently playing ) who is a world beater in those conditions?

Fact is, when the pitch is difficult, even Inzamam felt it hard to score runs. Check his avg. in Eng/SA. Its not player specific.
Click to expand...

Matthews is quite good and even Rahane. Nonetheless, just because all subcon bats are weak against swing does not mean that Raina shouldn't get criticized for this weakness.

He isn't underrated.
 
Not sure why so much hype about U.Akmal.

Raina > Umar Akmal (ODI's)
Ashwin > Umar Akmal (Tests)
 
Bilal7 said:
Good on flat tracks but becomes a bunny in the face of swing, bounce or even quality spin.

He's rated fairly, wouldn't make the World ODI XI but might make the Asian XI
Click to expand...
U r confusing Odis with test . He is very good against spinners in Odis and Swing is moot for a no.5 bat in limited overseas cricket .
 
Hawkeye said:
OK, maybe in your eyes.

If I had to choose a number 5/6 between Raina and Umar, I know for certain that I'd go with Umar Akmal.

Can play better shots and has NO weakness against any sort of bowling. Great in SC, great on bouncy tracks and at that position he's a freak bat.
Click to expand...

Yes, I haven't seen Akmal struggle against swing bowling either. Its only the mental aspect that is lacking with this guy. Raina and him are close.
 
BeautifulGame said:
U r confusing Odis with test . He is very good against spinners in Odis and Swing is moot for a no.5 bat in limited overseas cricket .
Click to expand...

Not on green pitches, it is not. He just isn't the type of player to score big runs in difficult batting conditions. Whether that be swing, bounce or turn.
 
If I have to choose between umar and Raina, I would certainly choose Raina. Under pressure he is as good as Dhoni or Virat. I still maintain the knocks he played against Pakistan and Australia in semi and quarter finals won us the world cup for us.
 
Bilal7 said:
Not on green pitches, it is not. He just isn't the type of player to score big runs in difficult batting conditions. Whether that be swing, bounce or turn.
Click to expand...

Even in most seamer friendly conditions the ball stops swinging after 15-20 overs at most .
 
Raina is a FTB Hack. Good record in SC, but not very good outside of it.
 
BeautifulGame said:
Even in most seamer friendly conditions the ball stops swinging after 15-20 overs at most .
Click to expand...

That wasn't the case during India's tour of South Africa or the most recent Indo-Pak series. Raina played a good knock in one of those games, I remember.
 
Bilal7 said:
That wasn't the case during India's tour of South Africa or the most recent Indo-Pak series. Raina played a good knock in one of those games, I remember.
Click to expand...
In SA series they were making 300 with ease.The ball hardly swung much after the the first 10 overs in that series
 
Tridibans_16 said:
I agree he is not that good when the ball swings around/ seams like in Perth/ Jo'burg.

Now, tell me one SC batsman (currently playing ) who is a world beater in those conditions?

Fact is, when the pitch is difficult, even Inzamam felt it hard to score runs. Check his avg. in Eng/SA. Its not player specific.
Click to expand...

Quite honestly, why do you need an example of another player to evaluate Raina's skill?
If he is good enough, he is good. If he is just about ok, then he is just that.

If another player isnt performing (maybe due to lack of talent/hardwork), that shouldnt be the excuse to boost or lower Raina's image.
 
Highly underrated among Indian fans too . He would make to my all time Indian ODI 11 .
The ones saying him and Akmal are close have no idea what a match winner means .
 
Raina has been playing well after his comeback. Did well in England too..
 
Raina > Umar. Under extreme pressure, Raina won India a WC semifinal. Umar lost that very semifinal. Averages and SR are close enough for both of them.

People calling him a HTB forget that he was Player of the series in England. Excellent performance in NZ and WI too.

His performance against the short ball has improved quite a bit and he is a real clutch player. One of the players to watch out for in the WC.

As far as green pitch performance is concerned, when was the last time you saw a green pitch in an ODI?

Oz has roads and we have roads with small boundaries. Raina will do just fine.
 
Raina has transformed into next gen odi player in the last year or so.. monster of sorts.
 
come on.... raina has weaknesses yes, but how on earth umar akmal is more of an impact player than raina?
 
Brilliant clutch ODI player. Much rather have him for the World Cup than those who are seemingly rated on these threads, starting with the choker de Villiers.
 
Big Boss said:
Not sure why so much hype about U.Akmal.

Raina > Umar Akmal (ODI's)
Ashwin > Umar Akmal (Tests)
Click to expand...
ashwin is better than half the indian line up in tests tho.

Umar Akmal is mediocre like Asad Shafiq. Both flashy and entertaining yet quite useless.
 
battler said:
I don't know about his, but this would be my all time India odi xi
Sachin
Ganguly
Kohli
Raina
Yuvi
Dhoni (c)
Kapil Dev
Agarkar
Kumble
Srinath
Zaheer
Click to expand...

Dravid at no.4 ahead of Raina .Even Azhar should be ahead him Raina ATM

Raina still has a lots to prove in WC
 
He gets rightly panned for his non performance outside Asia barring England and for his inconsistency. Yes he has played some amazing knocks for us but hasn't sustained that form for a longer period. In 30-odd matches from CT 2013 till that 100 vs England a couple of months back, he had a single score of 50+ that too vs Zim. Thats simply atrocious irrespective of the fact that you bat low in the order.

But he seems to have worked on his technique and looks better prepared to tackle short bowling. The tri series in Aus will tell us a bit about how ready he's ready to do well in the WC on relatively bouncier pitches.
 
BeautifulGame said:
Dravid at no.4 ahead of Raina .Even Azhar should be ahead him Raina ATM

Raina still has a lots to prove in WC
Click to expand...

Not interested in picking fixers in my team.
And as far as dravid is concerned, he is a great test player but raina is just more versatile in odi's than him.
And Raina did perform in the limited opportunities he got in the last wc.
 
If he does well in the current World Cup, his stock will increase leaps and bounds.
 
saeedhk said:
Those who are saying Umar is better know nothing about cricket.
Click to expand...

from technical aspect, umar is yes.... better than raina.

but in practice, with limited talent, raina has compensated that with hard work. he WILL have some limitations. yet, he tries hard to overcome it. this quality is admirable.
 
He is known as a very good finisher. Why do you think that he is under rated?
 
Itachi said:
from technical aspect, umar is yes.... better than raina.

but in practice, with limited talent, raina has compensated that with hard work. he WILL have some limitations. yet, he tries hard to overcome it. this quality is admirable.
Click to expand...
You are correct.

Umar and Sohaib are the best Pakistani batsmen and I admire their game but even I know Raina is better than UA.

UA is talented and some shots he play are glorious but he just doesn't seem to learn and keeps on playing those brainless shots.
 
Raina has technical glitches in his game but he makes for them with his sheer mental fortitude.. He's an amazing team player and I'm sure many current teams in world cricket including Pakistan would love to have such player.
 
Very good on flat decks, able to take on any attacks and finish the games but goes missing on tracks where the bowlers have a say.
 
In what world is Raina a better player than ABD?

Thing with Indian batsmen is that they are good individual players that combine to make a great batting lineup. The likes of Dhawan, Kohli and Sharma rely on Raina, Dhoni and until recently, Yuvraj to finish games off while the finishers rely on the top order to set up a good base. Only Kohli and Dhoni are outstanding individual bats from this team, the others are 'merely' good but look better than they are because they have other good/great players to rely on.
 
McGarrett said:
Very good on flat decks, able to take on any attacks and finish the games but goes missing on tracks where the bowlers have a say.
Click to expand...

what is the basis for this statement?
Raina and Dhoni scored most the runs against Vaas, Malinga, Murali, Mendis in 2008 in a LOW SCORING series which India won in SL.
everyone else failed in those conditions and Raina had no issues against Mendis like them.
Go and google the scorecards.
you proved your bias against India by that trolling comment.
 
Lethalweapon said:
what is the basis for this statement?
Raina and Dhoni scored most the runs against Vaas, Malinga, Murali, Mendis in 2008 in a LOW SCORING series which India won in SL.
everyone else failed in those conditions and Raina had no issues against Mendis like them.
Go and google the scorecards.
you proved your bias against India by that trolling comment.
Click to expand...

In SA, AUS, ENG, WI, NZ 'n SL

2005-2014 MAT:67 RUNS:1603 AVG: 28.12 100s:1 50s: 8 0's :5 AVG diff: -30.69
:uakmal


Its not trolling. Its a fact. As I said, a very good player on flat tracks and its a compliment.
 
McGarrett said:
In SA, AUS, ENG, WI, NZ 'n SL

2005-2014 MAT:67 RUNS:1603 AVG: 28.12 100s:1 50s: 8 0's :5 AVG diff: -30.69
:uakmal


Its not trolling. Its a fact. As I said, a very good player on flat tracks and its a compliment.
Click to expand...

You just trolled! what a twisted stat! why did you combine those averages? that too from his debut when he was 18!
I can also do that for Sangakkara and make him look bad!
that avg. of 28 at no. 5-6-7 is actually not bad for an Asian player ;-)
he is very bad in only 2 of those countries, WI and SA.

You claimed that he goes missing when bowlers have a say. which is NOT true. I gave a big example of that series in 2008.
Infact, Raina only played once in Aus, the last CB series and was surprisingly BETTER than what I expected, getting some 20s and 30s. unlike Rohit Sharma.

and no, I don't think he is underrated.

and flat tracks.... SL fans only use that analogy for Indian players. not for their own players. very hypocritical of them and that remains the only team I feel like hating at times and they will never be better than Ind or Pak in my books.
 
Because his issues with the short ball are more famous than his accomplishments with the bat.

Having said that, he works hard at his game so perhaps he can eradicate that issue.

But it is difficult, Michael Bevan actually went back to domestic cricket and sorted out his short ball issue, he averaged 60 odd for a couple of seasons with every first class bowler hammering him with the short ball. But it was too late and he never got picked in Test cricket again.
 
At no 5-6 you dont need technically perfect batsman now a days. You need a clutch player who can play according to the situation without worrying about centuries or personal records. That player has to be a good fielder as well.

Raina can take pressure like no other and never shows off and his impact on the field is immense as well. He can swing his arm when needed. All in all the debate regarding umer vs raina should be settled by now. Umar may be better technically but whats the use of technique when you have brain farts at the crucial moments.

I will take raina over umar any day.

Now whether is he under rated or not, i think he is slightly underrated. You have to keep in mind that he plays with the likes of kohli, dhoni, rohit and rahane. So its natural that he will get less attention against these guys.
 
Gun player, but hugely under rated on PP. A fraction of PP users don't even rate Sachin so you shouldn't be surprised :P
Fantastic batsman in batting friendly conditions, excellent while chasing, has played many a game changing knock already as the OP pointed out.

Seems to be a great team guy too. Always busy diving, cheering other fielders up.

The sort of guy who runs from point to third man just to give the fielder a pat on the back for the dive he just made.
I would always have him in the Indian ODI side. Starting 11.
Handy bowler too. but Dhoni over uses him.
 
Where is BD when you dont need him?
 
Hawkeye said:
Underrated? I believe he's overrated. Why?

Umar Akmal has a better record than Raina. Can play better or at least equally better strokes.

But he gets the stick from PPers all the time. The same ones hype Raina even though he doesn't even a better record than Umar!
Click to expand...

Better Record doesn't mean he is a better player.

A perfect example Mohali '11, Raina picked up India from a dubious position and helped us set a competitive total. While the supremely talented Umar Akmal didn't show up.
 
Underrated on this forum for sure, but not in India. He is surely among the top ten ODI players of this generation. His test record some times seem to cast a veil upon his ODI records.
 
Hawkeye said:
Umar is one the better players under pressure and he always steps up in big tournaments just like Misbah or other Indian batsmen who step up in big tournaments.

He's a genuine match changer and has won us many matches.
Click to expand...

Umar is too flashy to be successful on a consistent basis, even when Umar is batting well you always feel like a wicket is around the corner. When Raina gets going he never seems like getting out - he seems to play the ball on merit compared to Akmal. Akmal is way too flashy and impulsive compared to Raina.
 
Cricfan4eva said:
Better Record doesn't mean he is a better player.

A perfect example Mohali '11, Raina picked up India from a dubious position and helped us set a competitive total. While the supremely talented Umar Akmal didn't show up.
Click to expand...

Really, that's the best? You will come up with one example only? Why not take a look at their overall career so far, that'll be a better judgment of their match-winning abilities.

Raina:
Total Innings: 175
Won matches, remained not out: 32
Score in matches won: 1180 with 1 ton and 8 50s
Innings/win ratio: 5.4
Average in won matches: 1180/32 = 36.8

-----
Umar Akmal:
Total Innings: 88
Wont matches, remained not out: 12
Score in matches won: 538
Innings/win ratio: 7.3
Average in won matches: 538/12 = 44.8

P.S. Not outs normally aren't included in average, calculated above just to give an idea of their contribution.
 
IndianWillow said:
Umar is too flashy to be successful on a consistent basis, even when Umar is batting well you always feel like a wicket is around the corner. When Raina gets going he never seems like getting out - he seems to play the ball on merit compared to Akmal. Akmal is way too flashy and impulsive compared to Raina.
Click to expand...

Yes, he's more flashy, but do take a look at their respective records above..

Umar seems to be more consistent and has scored more runs, have won more matches than Raina..
 
Innings/win ratio of Raina is better, it seems. The average of Umar Akmal is better in won matches.

Umar doesn't have a big enough sample size though.
 
Hawkeye said:
Really, that's the best? You will come up with one example only? Why not take a look at their overall career so far, that'll be a better judgment of their match-winning abilities.

Raina:
Total Innings: 175
Won matches, remained not out: 32
Score in matches won: 1180 with 1 ton and 8 50s
Innings/win ratio: 5.4
Average in won matches: 1180/32 = 36.8

-----
Umar Akmal:
Total Innings: 88
Wont matches, remained not out: 12
Score in matches won: 538
Innings/win ratio: 7.3
Average in won matches: 538/12 = 44.8

P.S. Not outs normally aren't included in average, calculated above just to give an idea of their contribution.
Click to expand...

lol what kind of stat is this ? No => won matches ?
 
Hawkeye said:
We're talking about match winners and finishers.
Click to expand...

& you are actually suggesting that Umar has won& finished matches for pak based on your stats ? Has he even done that once , let alnone more than Raina ?
 
Raina is one of the best limited overs Cricketers today in the world. Its understandable to compare Rohit with Umar, but Raina is in a totally different league.
 
jusarrived said:
& you are actually suggesting that Umar has won& finished matches for pak based on your stats ? Has he even done that once , let alnone more than Raina ?
Click to expand...

Must be against minnows. I would like to see Hawkeye's stats in matches excluding minnows.
 
Hawkeye said:
Innings/win ratio of Raina is better, it seems. The average of Umar Akmal is better in won matches.

Umar doesn't have a big enough sample size though.
Click to expand...

Raina is part of a very strong batting lineup and had to compete with players like Sachin, Kohli, Dhoni, Yuvi, Rohit, Sehwag etc (most of these players average 40 or 50) - each of whom are single handedly capable on winning matches. Umar is supposedly the top dog of Pakistan's batting and will get much more opportunity to play a match winning knock. But he has not utilized his chances as well as Raina, inspite of this.
 
Lately Raina has been over confident in his batting. Looking to come in and smash sixes from the go. Needs to rein himself in a bit and should prove highly effective in the WC.
 
Electron said:
Must be against minnows. I would like to see Hawkeye's stats in matches excluding minnows.
Click to expand...

Lol okay excluding minnows makes Umar Akmal shine even more.

Raina:

Total innings: 175
Won & not out: 21
Runs: 803 with 0 ton and 6 50s
Wins/innings ratio: 0.12 (higher the better)
Average in wins as finisher: 803/21 = 38.2

Umar Akmal:

Total innings: 88
Won & not out: 9
Runs: 362 with 1 ton and 2 50s
Wins/innings ratio: 0.10
Average in wins: 362/9 = 40.2

The difference of win/inning ratio lessens between them when you exclude minnows and both win & finish matches at the same rate.

However, Umar has scored more runs and has a ton as well doing that.
 
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