Suresh Raina's "I'm Also Brahmin" Remark Sparks Major Backlash On Twitter

[MenInG]

Maybe an Indian member can explain the fuss here?

==


Former India cricketer Suresh Raina drew flak on social media following one of his comments during a commentary stint in the ongoing Tamil Nadu Premier League. Raina, who is part of the Chennai Super Kings franchise in the Indian Premier League, was asked by a commentator how he has embraced the Chennai culture as he has been seen wearing a 'veshti', dancing and whistling. In reply, the CSK left-hander said "I think I'm also Brahmin. I have been playing since 2004 in Chennai. I love the culture, I love my teammates."

Reacting to Raina's remark, a user on Twitter said it seems that you have never experienced real Chennai culture despite playing for Chennai for years.

"@ImRaina you should be ashamed yourself. It seems that you have never experienced real Chennai culture though you have been playing many years for Chennai team," the tweet read.

"So watched the video, I once liked Raina very much and now im sad how ignorant or he has been hiding all these days. Lost it! No more respect," another one added.

Raina announced his retirement from international cricket last year on August 15.

The left-handed batsman has been a vital cog for the Chennai-based franchise in the IPL over the years.

Raina is the third-highest run-scorer in the cash-rich league.

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/sur...mark-sparks-major-backlash-on-twitter-2491996

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Is ok for others like dhawan to be 'jaat' etc but presumably given Brahmin is the uppermost class, it makes people uncomfortable

 

[gani999]

Maybe an Indian member can explain the fuss here?

==

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/sur...mark-sparks-major-backlash-on-twitter-2491996

A big section of the local Tamil Nadu politicians have had a historic grouse against Brahmins. Maybe some of their followers did not like Suresh Raina equating 'Brahmin' culture with 'Chennai' culture.

A storm in a teacup. I doubt anyone even bothers.

 

[OMB]

Lol. Celebrities in India literally walk on egg shells.

 

[Bhaijaan]

These are cricketers. Most of them neither got great education or belong to families that have a culture of education or etiquettes. Don't expect them to be ambassadors for your modern day make believe social justice movements.

On top of that we love in countries where even engineers and doctors like stupid so what to expect from illiterate lower middle class sportsmen.

Afridi, Sehwag, Harbhajan, Raina etc Don't take what they say too seriously.

 

[street cricketer]

Caste system over the years has become normalised in India and caste identity is considered just one of your many identities like your religion, your nationality or the city where you live.

India is at the cross roads right now with some progressives regarding the caste system as the worst part of Indian culture and your caste identity as something to be shunned while majority others being largely proud of their caste identity and talks against shunning caste identity get perceived as an attack against their culture. In terms of social reformation of the society, India right now is probably what the west was around 50 years ago when slavery was no longer acceptable and came to be seen as a deplorable act but people probably still had some reservations in their minds on racial mixing. I mean you could still find such people in some of the southern states in the US but the west, at least the majority, sees all races as equal. India is still a developing country and, understandably, needs some more decades to reach a point where the Indian society has the thinking of the current day western society.

As for this particular incident, TN had a head start in anti caste social reforms relative to other states through radical anti caste and anti religion social reformers and the caste identity was seen as something that one shouldn't be proud of. So while Tamils of some 5-8 decades back used to have their respective caste identities like Iyer, Iyengar, Mudhaliar, Gounder, etc., in their names like the rest of the Indians, due to intense anti caste movements, the caste names got dropped a few decades back and current Tamils, even if they're brahmins, won't have caste surnames like Ravichandran Ashwin, who is a brahmin, but nevertheless doesn't have a surname signifying his caste in his name. Exception would be Tamils or Tamil origin people who were brought up in other states like Shreyas Iyer, Roshni Nadar, etc. This is not to say that the Tamil society is some completely reformed society and fully anti caste, people here still hold their respective caste identities dear to them and caste violence is still common in south TN districts, but you just can't be open about your caste in TN even in casual speaking unless you want to be viewed as some caste supremacist.

Things are obviously much different in rest of India where most people have caste surnames and Suresh Raina, being from a place very distant to TN (Kashmir), probably didn't realise these nuances when he casually name dropped his caste in the interview.

 

[globalcitizen]

The usual Useless people always on social media thinking they are doing something for mankind, tweeting and posting mindlessly. And same goes for some here who think this is wrong.

Anyway there is nothing wrong in maintaining your identity.

 

[guna]

A golden rule for all celebrities to follow is to never reveal your caste. Social media is brutal on anyone who brings out their caste. Raina being a Brahmin should have known that better. The word Brahmin itself has serious negative connotations attached to it.

 

[guna]

Is ok for others like dhawan to be 'jaat' etc but presumably given Brahmin is the uppermost class, it makes people uncomfortable

You have to understand that Caste system itself is the product of Brahmin idea that crept into Indian society. There was no caste system in India prior to 9th century. The word Brahmin itself arises many negative stuff that Indian society is dealing with.
While India itself is trying to move away from the shackles of Caste, bringing out Caste stuff and that too by a Brahmin celebrity is bound to raise a lot of eyebrows. At least in Urban India.

 

[King_Kohli]

You have to understand that Caste system itself is the product of Brahmin idea that crept into Indian society. There was no caste system in India prior to 9th century. The word Brahmin itself arises many negative stuff that Indian society is dealing with.
While India itself is trying to move away from the shackles of Caste, bringing out Caste stuff and that too by a Brahmin celebrity is bound to raise a lot of eyebrows. At least in Urban India.

On what basis you saying? any proofs?

 

[MP2011]

A total non-issue.

However, it's amazing to note how many times Raina has got himself into soup over his social media utterances!

 

[street cricketer]

The usual Useless people always on social media thinking they are doing something for mankind, tweeting and posting mindlessly. And same goes for some here who think this is wrong.

Anyway there is nothing wrong in maintaining your identity.

Well no one is going to personally fault you for being conscious of your caste identity. Because you're a global citizen after all.

 

[guna]

On what basis you saying? any proofs?

Sage Manu when he wrote his Manu Smriti was the origin of Caste system. At least he made it very rigid in the sense no one can move out of their caste.
Manu is identified as a Brahmin.

Remember that whosoever takes up the mantle of preserving the caste system and follows it strictly will get the credit for it.

I am researching on ancient India and studying the origins of Buddhism and Jainism. Many ancient travelers who traveled to India never mentioned caste system. They mentioned that society was divided into Peasants, traders and rulers. People were following either Buddhism or Jainism. So far, I have not come across any proof that caste system existed in ancient India. That is prior to 8th century.

 

[King_Kohli]

Sage Manu when he wrote his Manu Smriti was the origin of Caste system. At least he made it very rigid in the sense no one can move out of their caste.
Manu is identified as a Brahmin.

Remember that whosoever takes up the mantle of preserving the caste system and follows it strictly will get the credit for it.

I am researching on ancient India and studying the origins of Buddhism and Jainism. Many ancient travelers who traveled to India never mentioned caste system. They mentioned that society was divided into Peasants, traders and rulers. People were following either Buddhism or Jainism. So far, I have not come across any proof that caste system existed in ancient India. That is prior to 8th century.

Thank you.

 

[guna]

Thank you.

Just to add to my post. I am also trying to find the existence of many of the modern Hindu deities prior to 7th century. All of these Gods and Goddesses are not to be found before Adi Shakaracharya from modern day Kerala showed up and started to debate with Buddhist and Jain saints.

I will be happy to see if someone can offer any proof of the existence of Lord Ganesh, Hanuman, Ram or Krishna before 7th century. I am always willing to learn.

 

[gani999]

As for this particular incident, TN had a head start in anti caste social reforms relative to other states through radical anti caste and anti religion social reformers and the caste identity was seen as something that one shouldn't be proud of. So while Tamils of some 5-8 decades back used to have their respective caste identities like Iyer, Iyengar, Mudhaliar, Gounder, etc., in their names like the rest of the Indians, due to intense anti caste movements, the caste names got dropped a few decades back and current Tamils, even if they're brahmins, won't have caste surnames like Ravichandran Ashwin, who is a brahmin, but nevertheless doesn't have a surname signifying his caste in his name. Exception would be Tamils or Tamil origin people who were brought up in other states like Shreyas Iyer, Roshni Nadar, etc. This is not to say that the Tamil society is some completely reformed society and fully anti caste, people here still hold their respective caste identities dear to them and caste violence is still common in south TN districts, but you just can't be open about your caste in TN even in casual speaking unless you want to be viewed as some caste supremacist.

Not entirely. As a Tam Brahm myself, I'll share my insight.

Keeping the Brahmin caste name as surname has nothing any anti-caste movement. There are as many Brahmins brought up in Tamil Nadu who keep their caste name as there are those who are raised outside, who have discarded it. I'm an example of the second category.

And again, Iyer and Iyengar belong to the Brahmin caste.

Why have some Tamilian Brahmins kept their community names as surnames ? I think it has a lot to do with how people are named in the Tam Brahm community. We have a totally weird system where the father's name becomes the son's initial. For example, in Ravichandran Ashwin, the 'Ravichandran' is actually the guy's father's name, and 'Ashwin' is his name. In school he would have been R.Ashwin. This works ok in Tamil Nadu but becomes very confusing outside, where most people have a family name or caste name as surname. They cannot understand why Ravichandran Ashwin's son would be Ashwin XYZ and not ABC Ashwin. So some people use their community name as surname. to make documentation work easier.

Some people like myself also have adopted our father's names as surnames. It becomes a bit complicated once we get married and the wives are made take up our surnames. I did not allow my wife to change her name after marriage for obvious reasons.

 

[King_Kohli]

Just to add to my post. I am also trying to find the existence of many of the modern Hindu deities prior to 7th century. All of these Gods and Goddesses are not to be found before Adi Shakaracharya from modern day Kerala showed up and started to debate with Buddhist and Jain saints.

I will be happy to see if someone can offer any proof of the existence of Lord Ganesh, Hanuman, Ram or Krishna before 7th century. I am always willing to learn.

I have no idea bro, later share your findings.

 

[street cricketer]

Not entirely. As a Tam Brahm myself, I'll share my insight.

Keeping the Brahmin caste name as surname has nothing any anti-caste movement. There are as many Brahmins brought up in Tamil Nadu who keep their caste name as there are those who are raised outside, who have discarded it. I'm an example of the second category.

And again, Iyer and Iyengar belong to the Brahmin caste.

Why have some Tamilian Brahmins kept their community names as surnames ? I think it has a lot to do with how people are named in the Tam Brahm community. We have a totally weird system where the father's name becomes the son's initial. For example, in Ravichandran Ashwin, the 'Ravichandran' is actually the guy's father's name, and 'Ashwin' is his name. In school he would have been R.Ashwin. This works ok in Tamil Nadu but becomes very confusing outside, where most people have a family name or caste name as surname. They cannot understand why Ravichandran Ashwin's son would be Ashwin XYZ and not ABC Ashwin. So some people use their community name as surname. to make documentation work easier.

Some people like myself also have adopted our father's names as surnames. It becomes a bit complicated once we get married and the wives are made take up our surnames. I did not allow my wife to change her name after marriage for obvious reasons.

I'm not sure if you were brought up in TN or outside of it but the weird naming system you say is common to all Tamils, forget about Tamil hindus belonging to different castes but even Tamil christians and Tamil muslims use the same method you described in your post.

And yes, I know Iyer and Iyengar are brahmin castes. I didn't imply they were non brahmin castes brother.

 

[King_Kohli]

off topic...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAJPUTBOY?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RAJPUTBOY</a> FOREVER. Jai hind&#55356;&#56814;&#55356;&#56819;</p>— Ravindrasinh jadeja (@imjadeja) <a href="https://twitter.com/imjadeja/status/1418266457214013447?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


is that really necessary?

 

[street cricketer]

P.S.: It is rare to see even tambrahms brought up in TN having Iyer or Iyengar surnames. Yes, you might find tambrahms having caste surnames in other states but they're not common in TN. Neither Sundar Pichai nor Kamal Haasan has a caste surname.

 

[guna]

I have no idea bro, later share your findings.

So far, I did not find any Hindu Temples before 8th century. All you find are Buddhist and Jain temples.

I get a feeling that there is no Hinduism until Adi Shankara arrived on the scene in 8th century. Raises a lot of questions about India's past.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Not entirely. As a Tam Brahm myself, I'll share my insight.

Keeping the Brahmin caste name as surname has nothing any anti-caste movement. There are as many Brahmins brought up in Tamil Nadu who keep their caste name as there are those who are raised outside, who have discarded it. I'm an example of the second category.

And again, Iyer and Iyengar belong to the Brahmin caste.

Why have some Tamilian Brahmins kept their community names as surnames ? I think it has a lot to do with how people are named in the Tam Brahm community. We have a totally weird system where the father's name becomes the son's initial. For example, in Ravichandran Ashwin, the 'Ravichandran' is actually the guy's father's name, and 'Ashwin' is his name. In school he would have been R.Ashwin. This works ok in Tamil Nadu but becomes very confusing outside, where most people have a family name or caste name as surname. They cannot understand why Ravichandran Ashwin's son would be Ashwin XYZ and not ABC Ashwin. So some people use their community name as surname. to make documentation work easier.

Some people like myself also have adopted our father's names as surnames. It becomes a bit complicated once we get married and the wives are made take up our surnames. I did not allow my wife to change her name after marriage for obvious reasons.

Similar to Scandinavian customs eg Thor Bjornson's son becomes Thorsson (or Dottir in Iceland for daughters)

 

[cricketjoshila]

You have to understand that Caste system itself is the product of Brahmin idea that crept into Indian society. There was no caste system in India prior to 9th century. The word Brahmin itself arises many negative stuff that Indian society is dealing with.
While India itself is trying to move away from the shackles of Caste, bringing out Caste stuff and that too by a Brahmin celebrity is bound to raise a lot of eyebrows. At least in Urban India.

This is absolute rubbish. Anyone has the right to stick to his caste and follow its traditions as long as he isnt breaking the law and persecuting a person of another caste.

This Brahmin or Kshatriya or Dalit related politics is just that politics.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Just to add to my post. I am also trying to find the existence of many of the modern Hindu deities prior to 7th century. All of these Gods and Goddesses are not to be found before Adi Shakaracharya from modern day Kerala showed up and started to debate with Buddhist and Jain saints.

I will be happy to see if someone can offer any proof of the existence of Lord Ganesh, Hanuman, Ram or Krishna before 7th century. I am always willing to learn.

How many temples from that time are left? Can you tell me what happened to the temples or religious structures of those times?

 

[cricketjoshila]

So far, I did not find any Hindu Temples before 8th century. All you find are Buddhist and Jain temples.

I get a feeling that there is no Hinduism until Adi Shankara arrived on the scene in 8th century. Raises a lot of questions about India's past.

The oldest surviving temple is in Bihar, Mundeshwari Temple, from 7th century.

Because most of them were destroyed by iconoclastic invaders both for treasure and for religious motives.

Jainism and Buddhism had already lost most of their following in India by that time and their temples were not treasure hoards.

Sanatan Dharma's cradle was north India yet you will not find many ancient temples there. The reason is simple, South India came under the attack of the invaders a lot later.

Vedas form the basis of Sanatan dharna and Rig veda is close to 5000 years old.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So far, I did not find any Hindu Temples before 8th century. All you find are Buddhist and Jain temples.

I get a feeling that there is no Hinduism until Adi Shankara arrived on the scene in 8th century. Raises a lot of questions about India's past.

Infact, recent studies have put the temples existence to 1st century AD.

 

[PakLFC]

So he seems to be saying non Brahmins are inferior to him.

 

[Giannis]

In India people identify with their caste before their ethnicity or nationality. This guy claims to be Kashmiri but he's obviously a Brahmin before he's Kashmiri and that's why High caste Indians care so much about the Kashmiri Pandit situation because they see these high caste hindus as their brothers. An Indian Brahmin consider a Nepali Brahmin more of his kin than he'd consider an Indian Muslim or Sikh.

 

[street cricketer]

off topic...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAJPUTBOY?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RAJPUTBOY</a> FOREVER. Jai hind&#55356;&#56814;&#55356;&#56819;</p>— Ravindrasinh jadeja (@imjadeja) <a href="https://twitter.com/imjadeja/status/1418266457214013447?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


is that really necessary?

Like I said, it's just the cultural differences that caused the controversy.

A celebrity in TN can never in a million years get away with posting such a tweet. He would get pilloried from the press and public alike.

 

[street cricketer]

This is absolute rubbish. Anyone has the right to stick to his caste and follow its traditions as long as he isnt breaking the law and persecuting a person of another caste.

This Brahmin or Kshatriya or Dalit related politics is just that politics.

How do the traditions of a brahmin and a Dalit differ?

What are the "traditions" that a Dalit need to stick to?

 

[cricketjoshila]

How do the traditions of a brahmin and a Dalit differ?

What are the "traditions" that a Dalit need to stick to?

As i said everyone has the right to follow his traditions if he or she wants to. They cannot be stopped of they are not persecuting anyone.

 

[Local.Dada]

In India people identify with their caste before their ethnicity or nationality. This guy claims to be Kashmiri but he's obviously a Brahmin before he's Kashmiri and that's why High caste Indians care so much about the Kashmiri Pandit situation because they see these high caste hindus as their brothers. An Indian Brahmin consider a Nepali Brahmin more of his kin than he'd consider an Indian Muslim or Sikh.

adding a “I think” before your post would increase the intellect of your post by several notches.

 

[Local.Dada]

There is definitely a phobia against Brahmins in the south. You watch South Indian movies either the Brahmin is an incompetent buffoon or a evil scheming bad guy or a meek priest who needs the hero to save them.

Now if the movie is based on a real life historical figure who happpens to be a Brahmin there is always a speech inserted somewhere about the evils of caste system and there is a equivalent evil Brahmin figure. I guess that is fine because at least there is a social message but it is very forced on many occasions.

At least in Hollywood there is always a white savior even in movies showing the evil white person.

 

[Local.Dada]

Having said that celebrities should stay away from I am a Rajput, I am a jatt, I am a Brahmin etc.

 

[street cricketer]

As i said everyone has the right to follow his traditions if he or she wants to. They cannot be stopped of they are not persecuting anyone.

Of course, everyone has their right to follow what they want. But I didn't ask that..

How does the tradition of say a Kshatriya differ from that of a Vaishya? Do Kshatriyas swish around swords in their homes during their spare times to honour their tradition while the Vaishyas play around with money?

And what is the rich tradition that the Dalits are supposed to follow?

I mean, I can differentiate a hindu from a muslim from the fact that a hindu worships Hindu deities while a muslim worships Allah, a hindu celebrates Diwali, Holi, etc., while a muslim celebrates Eid during Ramzan and Bakrid. A Pakistani is someone who has a Pakistani nationality while an Indian has the Indian one. A vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat while vegans avoid animal products altogether. These are all clear identities based on something that people follow or have.

But what is the thing that differentiates people from different castes? What is the thing that differentiates you from your neighbour who is from the same town but of a different caste?

 

[Local.Dada]

Of course, everyone has their right to follow what they want. But I didn't ask that..

How does the tradition of say a Kshatriya differ from that of a Vaishya? Do Kshatriyas swish around swords in their homes during their spare times to honour their tradition while the Vaishyas play around with money?

And what is the rich tradition that the Dalits are supposed to follow?

I mean, I can differentiate a hindu from a muslim from the fact that a hindu worships Hindu deities while a muslim worships Allah, a hindu celebrates Diwali, Holi, etc., while a muslim celebrates Eid during Ramzan and Bakrid. A Pakistani is someone who has a Pakistani nationality while an Indian has the Indian one. A vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat while vegans avoid animal products altogether. These are all clear identities based on something that people follow or have.

But what is the thing that differentiates people from different castes? What is the thing that differentiates you from your neighbour who is from the same town but of a different caste?

To answer your last question nothing however our society was organized on basis of profession, for that time which is 1000+ years ago it may have seemed like a good idea and just like every system it rots, becomes outdated and becomes a menace with time.

Just for example if someone from a black smith community marries a girl from the same
Community she would know the husbands dietary requirements based on her upbringing . That’s the logic. Obviously even the concept of marrying a girl for her cooking looks outdated in 2021.

Now it has unfortunately become an identity. It sounds very noble on paper that everyone should do away with caste overnight and shun the concept . It’s not at all easy. Rather impossible. The better option would be to learn to live with it and fix it as we go along like it has been done over the years. Still a long way to go obviously. Humans will
Find something else to be prejudiced about.

Saying I am a Brahmin is no different from saying this is my last name etc. however taking it as some kind of a pride or a proclamation of superiority should definitely not be encouraged.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

To answer your last question nothing however our society was organized on basis of profession, for that time which is 1000+ years ago it may have seemed like a good idea and just like every system it rots, becomes outdated and becomes a menace with time.

Just for example if someone from a black smith community marries a girl from the same
Community she would know the husbands dietary requirements based on her upbringing . That’s the logic. Obviously even the concept of marrying a girl for her cooking looks outdated in 2021.

Now it has unfortunately become an identity. It sounds very noble on paper that everyone should do away with caste overnight and shun the concept . It’s not at all easy. Rather impossible. The better option would be to learn to live with it and fix it as we go along like it has been done over the years. Still a long way to go obviously. Humans will
Find something else to be prejudiced about.

Saying I am a Brahmin is no different from saying this is my last name etc. however taking it as some kind of a pride or a proclamation of superiority should definitely not be encouraged.

So people from the "Black smith community" have different dietary requirements than people of other "communities"? Do all people from the "Black smith community" have the same dietary requirements that this girl would know what her husband likes?

 

[street cricketer]

To answer your last question nothing however our society was organized on basis of profession, for that time which is 1000+ years ago it may have seemed like a good idea and just like every system it rots, becomes outdated and becomes a menace with time.

Just for example if someone from a black smith community marries a girl from the same
Community she would know the husbands dietary requirements based on her upbringing . That’s the logic. Obviously even the concept of marrying a girl for her cooking looks outdated in 2021.

Now it has unfortunately become an identity. It sounds very noble on paper that everyone should do away with caste overnight and shun the concept . It’s not at all easy. Rather impossible. The better option would be to learn to live with it and fix it as we go along like it has been done over the years. Still a long way to go obviously. Humans will
Find something else to be prejudiced about.

Saying I am a Brahmin is no different from saying this is my last name etc. however taking it as some kind of a pride or a proclamation of superiority should definitely not be encouraged.

Let's assume that India became independent in '47 but the Britishers living in India at that time never left and continued living in India as in South Africa. And that the Britishers followed a system of tightly guarded endogamy till today where white people were never allowed to mix/marry with Indian people because they believed that them being white by birth was superior racially to the Indian people (of course, white people are far too evolved and socially reformed to do this unlike us, but let's just imagine for a hypothetical scenario). And let's imagine that those white people who followed such a system called themselves "elite".

Now if we are going to establish that following such a system where humans are rated unequally by birth is a despicable thing, shouldn't it be prudent that we do away with terminologies associated with such a racist system too? What's the point if a white person says I don't believe in such a racial hierarchy system but continues to call himself "elite", a terminology that's rooted in that racist system.

Ours is the only country in the world where a system where humans are rated unequal by birth is regarded as a part of our "culture" and efforts to shun such a caste system or its identities is viewed as doing "politics". If you agree that caste system is inherently a bad thing (and kudos to you for accepting that, many Indians don't have any issue with caste system to begin with), what's the point in continuing to calling yourself a brahmin or a kshatriya or a rajput when all those terms are fictional terminologies invented for one set of people to take advantage of another set of people over the course of history? We are country that changes city names because they're colonial in nature, but continue to call ourselves by our respective caste names despite studying that caste system is wrong in our educational books.

 

[Local.Dada]

So people from the "Black smith community" have different dietary requirements than people of other "communities"? Do all people from the "Black smith community" have the same dietary requirements that this girl would know what her husband likes?

This is what happens when you pick and chose things to chose a narrative. I am speaking about 1000 years ago. Of course a blacksmith would need a certain kind of diet and he may not afford to have the same type of protein and ingredients a king can afford. Of course this girl would know because those recipes are passed over from her mother who cooked for her dad who was from the same community.

A Brahmin May not require the kind of diet a farmer or a king needs. Obviously he can’t survive on salad all the time can he ,Now there is a different cuisine which has evolved over time from Brahmin households. Today all those cuisines have become mainstream over time.

Hope you got the concept or is it still complicated for you? I am here to help.

 

[Local.Dada]

Let's assume that India became independent in '47 but the Britishers living in India at that time never left and continued living in India as in South Africa. And that the Britishers followed a system of tightly guarded endogamy till today where white people were never allowed to mix/marry with Indian people because they believed that them being white by birth was superior racially to the Indian people (of course, white people are far too evolved and socially reformed to do this unlike us, but let's just imagine for a hypothetical scenario). And let's imagine that those white people who followed such a system called themselves "elite".

Now if we are going to establish that following such a system where humans are rated unequally by birth is a despicable thing, shouldn't it be prudent that we do away with terminologies associated with such a racist system too? What's the point if a white person says I don't believe in such a racial hierarchy system but continues to call himself "elite", a terminology that's rooted in that racist system.

Ours is the only country in the world where a system where humans are rated unequal by birth is regarded as a part of our "culture" and efforts to shun such a caste system or its identities is viewed as doing "politics". If you agree that caste system is inherently a bad thing (and kudos to you for accepting that, many Indians don't have any issue with caste system to begin with), what's the point in continuing to calling yourself a brahmin or a kshatriya or a rajput when all those terms are fictional terminologies invented for one set of people to take advantage of another set of people over the course of history? We are country that changes city names because they're colonial in nature, but continue to call ourselves by our respective caste names despite studying that caste system is wrong in our educational books.

Varnas are not arranged vertically , they are linear in nature. As I said over time and can’t blame British and Mughals it was some powerful Hindus themselves who might have been self serving and kind of propagated the vertical hirarchy.

It’s easy to find the Brahmin as the guy who caused all the ruckus, however the Kings were more powerful weren’t they or the rich Vyshnava merchants? Did they stand up for the caste system.

Yes some Dalit castes were oppressed.

Today there are so many powerful Dalit leaders, instead of harping about discrimination that might have happened, how many of them have worked for the benefits of their communities?

It’s only the masses who go crazy over caste and semi-literate idiots( not targeted at you ) who keep harping on a problem that is clearly visible and has been around for centuries instead of trying to find a working solution to ensure it goes away eventually without causing any disturbance.

 

[street cricketer]

Varnas are not arranged vertically , they are linear in nature. As I said over time and can’t blame British and Mughals it was some powerful Hindus themselves who might have been self serving and kind of propagated the vertical hirarchy.

It’s easy to find the Brahmin as the guy who caused all the ruckus, however the Kings were more powerful weren’t they or the rich Vyshnava merchants? Did they stand up for the caste system.

Yes some Dalit castes were oppressed.

Today there are so many powerful Dalit leaders, instead of harping about discrimination that might have happened, how many of them have worked for the benefits of their communities?

It’s only the masses who go crazy over caste and semi-literate idiots( not targeted at you ) who keep harping on a problem that is clearly visible and has been around for centuries instead of trying to find a working solution to ensure it goes away eventually without causing any disturbance.

It is natural for people to blame the ones with the highest privilege in a discriminatory system that has persisted for thousands of years. Otherwise how do you think the caste system developed? That Dalits randomly said one day "you know what guys..Let us be the sewage cleaners, we simply love it and let our kids do the same job too for generations together while you guys do the reading, fighting and business stuff"?

Here's the thing. Times have evolved and India is in a stage now when caste discrimination cannot take place openly and Indians know doing so would be wrong (at least most). But they nevertheless are not ready to lose their respective caste identities and the privilege that comes with it. So a guy from a BC or an MBC caste is not ready to let go off his caste privilege even though he know he is below the brahmins by caste hierarchy because he wants to have his caste privilege over the Dalits who are under them by caste hierarchy. A few Dalits leaders being powerful doesn't change the reality of the society.

In such a scenario where asking people to let go off their caste identities is seen as a "disturbance" to their lifestyle, what's your working solution to the issue? That people continue to call themselves by their respective caste names for generations and hope that one day people just forget that caste system ever existed?

 

[OMB]

Maybe an Indian member can explain the fuss here?

==


Former India cricketer Suresh Raina drew flak on social media following one of his comments during a commentary stint in the ongoing Tamil Nadu Premier League. Raina, who is part of the Chennai Super Kings franchise in the Indian Premier League, was asked by a commentator how he has embraced the Chennai culture as he has been seen wearing a 'veshti', dancing and whistling. In reply, the CSK left-hander said "I think I'm also Brahmin. I have been playing since 2004 in Chennai. I love the culture, I love my teammates."

Reacting to Raina's remark, a user on Twitter said it seems that you have never experienced real Chennai culture despite playing for Chennai for years.

"@ImRaina you should be ashamed yourself. It seems that you have never experienced real Chennai culture though you have been playing many years for Chennai team," the tweet read.

"So watched the video, I once liked Raina very much and now im sad how ignorant or he has been hiding all these days. Lost it! No more respect," another one added.

Raina announced his retirement from international cricket last year on August 15.

The left-handed batsman has been a vital cog for the Chennai-based franchise in the IPL over the years.

Raina is the third-highest run-scorer in the cash-rich league.

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/sur...mark-sparks-major-backlash-on-twitter-2491996

Getting back to what Raina said,
He obviously thinks that Brahmin culture are huge in Chennai culture. He is as Brahmins are everywhere in India.

So my next questions,

1) During his time with Chennai kings, what led him to believe that Brahmins have more to do with Chennai culture than any other cast?

Many posters (especially from Tamil Nadu) are telling us that Chennai has become casteless but it seems to Raina that it has not.

2) Would he have said the same if he were in MI or with KKR or SRH or other city based franchise teams?

If yes, then it reveals to us Raina thought process and beliefs. If no, then it stands to reason that Tam-brahms still have hold over Chennai culture in the eyes of other Brahmins (like Suresh Raina). From my hostel days where I witnessed people from all parts of India staying together, there was a reputation of Tambrahms being more cast aware than anyone else and projected exclusivity and some kind of superior intelligence. Some did boast about the higher education standards in the community and tbh this much was true as this community did have had a headstart over others. Perhaps this headstart has led to a false belief that they possesses higher intelligence.

 

[Local.Dada]

It is natural for people to blame the ones with the highest privilege in a discriminatory system that has persisted for thousands of years. Otherwise how do you think the caste system developed? That Dalits randomly said one day "you know what guys..Let us be the sewage cleaners, we simply love it and let our kids do the same job too for generations together while you guys do the reading, fighting and business stuff"?

Here's the thing. Times have evolved and India is in a stage now when caste discrimination cannot take place openly and Indians know doing so would be wrong (at least most). But they nevertheless are not ready to lose their respective caste identities and the privilege that comes with it. So a guy from a BC or an MBC caste is not ready to let go off his caste privilege even though he know he is below the brahmins by caste hierarchy because he wants to have his caste privilege over the Dalits who are under them by caste hierarchy. A few Dalits leaders being powerful doesn't change the reality of the society.

In such a scenario where asking people to let go off their caste identities is seen as a "disturbance" to their lifestyle, what's your working solution to the issue? That people continue to call themselves by their respective caste names for generations and hope that one day people just forget that caste system ever existed?

You are preaching to the choir here. Also I don’t think a single Hindu who will say Caste system as it exists in its current form is the right thing. Even if they have prejudice they will not say it. Just like Jadeja’s post above he said he is a Rajput boy but didn’t say everyone else is meek, did he? I don’t know what he thinks in personal life but he knows his career will be over in an instant if he says something like that.

It won’t be a bad idea to glorify people who clean toilets and sewage though and raise their profile , right now hygiene is the need of the hour in India.

Also there are many upper caste communities living in abject poverty and many SC and other Dalits who are also filthy rich. However while there are provisions for the poor Dalit, the poor upper caste person has no where to go

Sure honor killings etc are there and caste is just another problem like religion, racial and linguistic discrimination.

Having a caste identity is not a big problem at all, discrimination is and that can happen at many levels.

Sure, if someone shuns it then great job but as I said making that mandatory will just create an extra nuisance. There were protests and misinterpretation in our country for protecting rights of minorities in our neighboring counties which is a more practical noble cause than undoing something that existed for over a 1000 years. It’s not a non issue but not a critical issue either. Yes discrimination is an issue.

 

[street cricketer]

Getting back to what Raina said,
He obviously thinks that Brahmin culture are huge in Chennai culture. He is as Brahmins are everywhere in India.

So my next questions,

1) During his time with Chennai kings, what led him to believe that Brahmins have more to do with Chennai culture than any other cast?

Many posters (especially from Tamil Nadu) are telling us that Chennai has become casteless but it seems to Raina that it has not.

2) Would he have said the same if he were in MI or with KKR or SRH or other city based franchise teams?

If yes, then it reveals to us Raina thought process and beliefs. If no, then it stands to reason that Tam-brahms still have hold over Chennai culture in the eyes of other Brahmins (like Suresh Raina). From my hostel days where I witnessed people from all parts of India staying together, there was a reputation of Tambrahms being more cast aware than anyone else and projected exclusivity and some kind of superior intelligence. Some did boast about the higher education standards in the community and tbh this much was true as this community did have had a headstart over others. Perhaps this headstart has led to a false belief that they possesses higher intelligence.

TNCA is dominated by Tambrahms, it's why most TN players who have represented India are from the brahmin community. This was true across India but more pronounced in the case of Tamil Nadu. There was even a film made in tamil that sort of dealt with the issue.

However the scenario is changing now and more players from downtrodden castes like Natarajan are getting through to the top, but historically TNCA used to be a tambrahm dominated organisation, it still is, but not so much as it was in the past.

CSK, is also a tambrahm dominated set up (the Srinivasans are very powerful in TN cricket in case people didn't know). So it's natural that Raina felt that Chennai was all about tambrahm culture and wasn't exposed to the other faces of Chennai.

P.S.: I didn't say Chennai or TN has become casteless. I clearly mentioned the caste violence happening in southern TN districts and that people still marry by their caste preferences only. I just said it was not possible to proclaim your caste as proudly in the open in TN as Jadeja did in his tweet because of numerous anti caste movements that took place in the state.

So people resort to talking about subtle things to indicate their caste culture. Tamil stand up comedy scene is also dominated by Tambrahms and so you have many stand up videos where they talk about things like wearing veshti, filter coffee, curd rice and Mylapore (a tambrahm dominated area) to indicate tambrahm culture. And the Tamil stand up comedy scene came under criticism for the same a few weeks back on social media, for subtly pushing caste in stand up comedy with questions like "how many tambrahms in the house?", etc., to the audience.

 

[street cricketer]

You are preaching to the choir here. Also I don’t think a single Hindu who will say Caste system as it exists in its current form is the right thing. Even if they have prejudice they will not say it. Just like Jadeja’s post above he said he is a Rajput boy but didn’t say everyone else is meek, did he? I don’t know what he thinks in personal life but he knows his career will be over in an instant if he says something like that.

It won’t be a bad idea to glorify people who clean toilets and sewage though and raise their profile , right now hygiene is the need of the hour in India.

Also there are many upper caste communities living in abject poverty and many SC and other Dalits who are also filthy rich. However while there are provisions for the poor Dalit, the poor upper caste person has no where to go

Sure honor killings etc are there and caste is just another problem like religion, racial and linguistic discrimination.

Having a caste identity is not a big problem at all, discrimination is and that can happen at many levels.

Sure, if someone shuns it then great job but as I said making that mandatory will just create an extra nuisance. There were protests and misinterpretation in our country for protecting rights of minorities in our neighboring counties which is a more practical noble cause than undoing something that existed for over a 1000 years. It’s not a non issue but not a critical issue either. Yes discrimination is an issue.

The upper caste communities in abject poverty would be a miniscule percentage of the Indian population compared to the percentage of Dalits in abject poverty in India. So the "I know an upper caste poor person in my colony" is a moot point. Besides, reservation wasn't introduced as a poverty alleviation programme. It was introduced to reverse the historical injustices done to the downtrodden castes over thousands of years which lead to the massive inequality between castes that's prevalent in India. Otherwise the average upper caste person would be as poor as the average Dalit in India. In any case, Modi has introduced a reservation to support poor upper castes too, in case you're not in the loop.

You and I agree that caste system is fundamentally a wrong system. I think that you have to do away with all things connected to caste system (and I know the obvious retort will come that let's do away with reservation then, but you do away with racism, not policies in place to reverse the changes that have occurred in the society as a result of that racist system). You think there's nothing wrong in keeping caste names or caste identities as long as they don't discriminate, that's where we differ. A person cannot call himself a Rajput or a Brahmin without himself being a part of, or believing in that discriminatory system of social hierarchy. Of course, a brahmin will not actively discriminate or cause caste violence against a lower caste person now as it's punishable by law. Nevertheless a brahmin or a Rajput will still have caste prejudices in their minds that they're above the lower castes and therefore they're fundamentally different people from the lower castes, with whom they're not supposed to mix with. And that's a highly regressive mentality to have.

I'm of course under no illusions that India will change overnight. It's why I said in one of my earlier posts that it will probably take 5 decades or even longer for India to become as progressive as the western society is now and for people to shed all their regressive beliefs on notions based on caste purity. And we'll probably not be alive to see that day. But the change is happening slowly nonetheless.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Of course, everyone has their right to follow what they want. But I didn't ask that..

How does the tradition of say a Kshatriya differ from that of a Vaishya? Do Kshatriyas swish around swords in their homes during their spare times to honour their tradition while the Vaishyas play around with money?

And what is the rich tradition that the Dalits are supposed to follow?

I mean, I can differentiate a hindu from a muslim from the fact that a hindu worships Hindu deities while a muslim worships Allah, a hindu celebrates Diwali, Holi, etc., while a muslim celebrates Eid during Ramzan and Bakrid. A Pakistani is someone who has a Pakistani nationality while an Indian has the Indian one. A vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat while vegans avoid animal products altogether. These are all clear identities based on something that people follow or have.

But what is the thing that differentiates people from different castes? What is the thing that differentiates you from your neighbour who is from the same town but of a different caste?

Again if a Kshatriya wants to swish with the sword and a vaishya play with money, its their wish. Nothing illegal about it. Dalits can follow any tradition or profession, nothing stops them.


If a person wants to identify himself with the traditions his ancestors followed, its his wish. If another person wants to dissociate from it, its again a personal choice.

 

[street cricketer]

Again if a Kshatriya wants to swish with the sword and a vaishya play with money, its their wish. Nothing illegal about it. Dalits can follow any tradition or profession, nothing stops them.


If a person wants to identify himself with the traditions his ancestors followed, its his wish. If another person wants to dissociate from it, its again a personal choice.

I see that you have not yet answered my question on what underlying thing differentiates people of similar culture (say two bengali hindus from the same neighbourhood) but belonging to different castes..

 

[globalcitizen]

I see that you have not yet answered my question on what underlying thing differentiates people of similar culture (say two bengali hindus from the same neighbourhood) but belonging to different castes..

every religion has its own sub categories. Christians have catholic, Anglican, protestants, orthodox etc.. Muslims have shias, Sunni etc and same with Hindus have their own sub categories. Everyone have their right to follow their traditions and culture and why should you have a problem?

By your logic even religion should not be a differentiating factor, after all you are a human.
Of course most would want an ideal world with no caste or religion, but reality is its been there for centuries and will be there for a long time.

May be you can convert to Jainism if you are not one, because Jainism was created to oppose Hindu caste system. I was told this by an acquaintance

 

[Sirris]

off topic...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAJPUTBOY?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RAJPUTBOY</a> FOREVER. Jai hind����</p>— Ravindrasinh jadeja (@imjadeja) <a href="https://twitter.com/imjadeja/status/1418266457214013447?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


is that really necessary?

Rajput is not a traditional religious Hindu caste but a subethnicity/clan/tribal association.

There can be Rajput Muslims and Rajput Hindus.

Same with titles like “Jaat” and “Gujars”

 

[OMB]

every religion has its own sub categories. Christians have catholic, Anglican, protestants, orthodox etc.. Muslims have shias, Sunni etc and same with Hindus have their own sub categories. Everyone have their right to follow their traditions and culture and why should you have a problem?

By your logic even religion should not be a differentiating factor, after all you are a human.
Of course most would want an ideal world with no caste or religion, but reality is its been there for centuries and will be there for a long time.

May be you can convert to Jainism if you are not one, because Jainism was created to oppose Hindu caste system. I was told this by an acquaintance

Well I am a Jain. I can vouch for the fact that Jainism was not created to oppose Hinduism or its caste system. It was created on the principle of Live and Let live (Jio or jeene do) and Ahimsa paramodharm (non violene is the best dharma).

It is my belief that all religions evolved themselves to improve over other existing religions.

 

[street cricketer]

every religion has its own sub categories. Christians have catholic, Anglican, protestants, orthodox etc.. Muslims have shias, Sunni etc and same with Hindus have their own sub categories. Everyone have their right to follow their traditions and culture and why should you have a problem?

By your logic even religion should not be a differentiating factor, after all you are a human.
Of course most would want an ideal world with no caste or religion, but reality is its been there for centuries and will be there for a long time.

May be you can convert to Jainism if you are not one, because Jainism was created to oppose Hindu caste system. I was told this by an acquaintance

Very interesting. Shias can convert to sunni Islam and vice versa. Protestants can become Catholics and vice versa.

What's the procedure for a non Kshatriya to become a Kshatriya?

 

[guna]

Very interesting. Shias can convert to sunni Islam and vice versa. Protestants can become Catholics and vice versa.

What's the procedure for a non Kshatriya to become a Kshatriya?

Almost every caste at some point who became rulers have been considered as Kshatriyas. Jaats, Rajputs, Gujjars, Yadavs have all ruled India at various times. I am sure they all considered themselves as Kshatriyas.
I would say that Shudras are the most powerful group in India followed by Dalits and then Baniya and then Brahmins.

 

[street cricketer]

Almost every caste at some point who became rulers have been considered as Kshatriyas. Jaats, Rajputs, Gujjars, Yadavs have all ruled India at various times. I am sure they all considered themselves as Kshatriyas.

I don't care about what happened thousands of years ago. What's the present day procedure for a Dalit to become an OBC caste, forget about upper castes.

I would say that Shudras are the most powerful group in India followed by Dalits and then Baniya and then Brahmins.

Hmm.. How did you arrive with this "power" equation of castes in India?

 

[guna]

Well I am a Jain. I can vouch for the fact that Jainism was not created to oppose Hinduism or its caste system. It was created on the principle of Live and Let live (Jio or jeene do) and Ahimsa paramodharm (non violene is the best dharma).

It is my belief that all religions evolved themselves to improve over other existing religions.

From what I read, Jainism was a school of thought which was very popular among masses in ancient India. People assume that Jainism means some Rajasthani or Gujrati people. But it seems that Jainism followers were mainly found in South India where it got completely wiped out by modern Hinduism.

The present day Marwari people who are typically Jains are all Hindu converts. Jainism was a South Indian philosophy. Buddhism was a North Indian Philosophy. Both Buddhism and Jainism were the dominant religions before 7th century in India and they competed with each other for Kings and emporors patronage.

Vedic religion (Not modern day Hinduism) was a fringe philosophy and not very popular until Shankaracharya spread it after 7th century.

Most Indians ancestors have been either Buddhists or Jains at some point in their history.

 

[guna]

I don't care about what happened thousands of years ago. What's the present day procedure for a Dalit to become an OBC caste, forget about upper castes.



Hmm.. How did you arrive with this "power" equation of castes in India?

In the present day, you can change your caste. Modern day Hinduism prohibits changing castes. Dalits are not a caste. They are just natives and had their own tribal deities.

In Caste Hindus, Shudras form the bulk of the religion. They are the ones that decide election outcomes and they are very powerful castes. Jaats are land owners and weild a lot of power. Gujjars and Yadavs also dominate the regions they are present.

In South India Shudra castes like Reddys, Kammas are filthy rich and dominate the political landscape. Same with Lingayats, Okkaligas in Karnataka. In Tamilnadu also, its the same.

All of the caste conflicts you see are always between Shudras and Dalits or intra-shudra conflicts. They have the numbers strength as well as money power.

 

[street cricketer]

In the present day, you can change your caste. Modern day Hinduism prohibits changing castes. Dalits are not a caste. They are just natives and had their own tribal deities.

In Caste Hindus, Shudras form the bulk of the religion. They are the ones that decide election outcomes and they are very powerful castes. Jaats are land owners and weild a lot of power. Gujjars and Yadavs also dominate the regions they are present.

In South India Shudra castes like Reddys, Kammas are filthy rich and dominate the political landscape. Same with Lingayats, Okkaligas in Karnataka. In Tamilnadu also, its the same.

All of the caste conflicts you see are always between Shudras and Dalits or intra-shudra conflicts. They have the numbers strength as well as money power.

The analysis of caste representation in the Lok Sabha over the years tell a different story though. The Lok sabha has always been upper caste dominated, no matter what party has been in power. The upper caste representatives in the Lok sabha after the 2019 general elections were almost twice the number of the OBC representatives.

https://indianexpress.com/article/e...land-upper-castes-dominate-new-house-5747511/

And talking about money power, a recent study revealed that upper caste hold 41% of India's total wealth.

https://www.businesstoday.in/latest...nt-india-total-wealth-study-170486-2019-02-14

 

[cricketjoshila]

From what I read, Jainism was a school of thought which was very popular among masses in ancient India. People assume that Jainism means some Rajasthani or Gujrati people. But it seems that Jainism followers were mainly found in South India where it got completely wiped out by modern Hinduism.

The present day Marwari people who are typically Jains are all Hindu converts. Jainism was a South Indian philosophy. Buddhism was a North Indian Philosophy. Both Buddhism and Jainism were the dominant religions before 7th century in India and they competed with each other for Kings and emporors patronage.

Vedic religion (Not modern day Hinduism) was a fringe philosophy and not very popular until Shankaracharya spread it after 7th century.

Most Indians ancestors have been either Buddhists or Jains at some point in their history.

Please revise the entire history of the subcontinent as per your convenience.

 

[Local.Dada]

The analysis of caste representation in the Lok Sabha over the years tell a different story though. The Lok sabha has always been upper caste dominated, no matter what party has been in power. The upper caste representatives in the Lok sabha after the 2019 general elections were almost twice the number of the OBC representatives.

https://indianexpress.com/article/e...land-upper-castes-dominate-new-house-5747511/

And talking about money power, a recent study revealed that upper caste hold 41% of India's total wealth.

https://www.businesstoday.in/latest...nt-india-total-wealth-study-170486-2019-02-14

Ok there is a break down. 41% doesnÂ’t seem like an alarming stat to me to be honest. Also the term
Upper caste seems very broad. Had you said like a particular caste holds 41% of the wealth that would be a cause of concern: there are a zillion castes in India and may be half of them are considered as upper castes.

At this point you are just rambling and I donÂ’t see the point you are trying to make.

High points

Caste system as it has evolved today is it bad : yes not a single person disagrees.

Has india had a history of caste discrimination and has there been discrimination again donÂ’t think anyone disagrees.

Should we all be upstanding human beings and shun caste discrimination again donÂ’t think a single person has said otherwise.

What exactly are you on about or what exactly are you trying to prove I don’t think anyone gets.

This topic is about Raina’s statement and there are 2 points here

Celebrities should refrain from this kind of chat and at the same time RainaÂ’s comment is not exactly offensive, rather I would say the reaction is.

Now donÂ’t post half- baked pseudo understanding of scriptures like some religious scholar and bore us.

I think most of us are on the same page here

 

[street cricketer]

Ok there is a break down. 41% doesnÂ’t seem like an alarming stat to me to be honest. Also the term
Upper caste seems very broad. Had you said like a particular caste holds 41% of the wealth that would be a cause of concern: there are a zillion castes in India and may be half of them are considered as upper castes.

At this point you are just rambling and I donÂ’t see the point you are trying to make.

High points

Caste system as it has evolved today is it bad : yes not a single person disagrees.

Has india had a history of caste discrimination and has there been discrimination again donÂ’t think anyone disagrees.

Should we all be upstanding human beings and shun caste discrimination again donÂ’t think a single person has said otherwise.

What exactly are you on about or what exactly are you trying to prove I don’t think anyone gets.

This topic is about Raina’s statement and there are 2 points here

Celebrities should refrain from this kind of chat and at the same time RainaÂ’s comment is not exactly offensive, rather I would say the reaction is.

Now donÂ’t post half- baked pseudo understanding of scriptures like some religious scholar and bore us.

I think most of us are on the same page here

It wasn't even a reply to you, not sure why you felt the need to butt in. It was a reply to OP's assertion that lower castes and Dalits were the most powerful group economically and politically in India.

As for what's my point, I've said it a lot of times in this very thread - that we should shun our respective caste identities. Maybe it's not getting to you because you only see what you want to see. I'm sure you're going to come up with a post on how that's not at all realistic and practically impossible, and that we should rather maintain our caste identities without doing caste discrimination. We have had this conversation before and I said you and me disagree on the above point and we finished our conversation. Not sure why you felt the need to butt in and restart an argument.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

But what is the thing that differentiates people from different castes? What is the thing that differentiates you from your neighbour who is from the same town but of a different caste?

Imo it should be nothing. Subcontinent Muslims have a concept called Baradari, also called zaat. For example their is no difference between Punjabi Muslim from the same city who have different Baradari, also called zaat.

Some of these baradari came from the Hindu caste system. For example

Butt - this is a community that is descendant of Brahmins
Janjua- this is a Rajput tribe

Their would be no cultural difference between these Punjabi Muslims who are Butt's and Janjua's in the same city.

 

[globalcitizen]

From what I saw in the video, rains was asked about veshti(traditional attire), he was wearing. He replied to it saying he was a Brahmin. I have no idea how some interpret as other castes were inferior.