Test cricket - Dead rubber or not?

[dani2k]

I see that a lot of neutral and Pakistani fans brush aside the win as "Dead Rubber" while we Indian fans consider this win as more than that.

To put things in perspective, the Bull ring wicket has been termed as poor by the ICC because it favored pace bowlers to an unfair extent. When SA visited India , the Nagpur wicket was termed poor because it favored spin bowlers to an unfair extent. Both were low scorers and both were dominated by bowlers and one team was the winning side on both occasions! (I am almost tempted to ask "what now SA? can't play spin and can't play pace! ;P - just joking!)

More so the recent test match because it was won by a creed of bowlers which India was historically never known for...that is why it is seen as a huge thing by the Indian fans.

And for Pakistani fans - it is like telling what if the Pakistani batting line up from 1-7 all scored a fifty plus score in a test match abroad and you win...how would you feel? (even if that is a dead rubber)

 

[Sarwar89]

I see that a lot of neutral and Pakistani fans brush aside the win as "Dead Rubber" while we Indian fans consider this win as more than that.

To put things in perspective, the Bull ring wicket has been termed as poor by the ICC because it favored pace bowlers to an unfair extent. When SA visited India , the Nagpur wicket was termed poor because it favored spin bowlers to an unfair extent. Both were low scorers and both were dominated by bowlers and one team was the winning side on both occasions! (I am almost tempted to ask "what now SA? can't play spin and can't play pace! ;P - just joking!)

More so the recent test match because it was won by a creed of bowlers which India was historically never known for...that is why it is seen as a huge thing by the Indian fans.

And for Pakistani fans - it is like telling what if the Pakistani batting line up from 1-7 all scored a fifty plus score in a test match abroad and you win...how would you feel? (even if that is a dead rubber)

As you know Wasim and Waqar were great during mid 1990's. In 1995, Pakistan toured Australia to play 3 match Test Series, it was Pakistan's best chance to beat Australia in Australia and become the first Asian side to do so. End result was, They failed. They lost first 2 Test Matches. However Wasim/Waqar ensured Pakistan wins the Dead Rubber, 3rd Test. To be honest in Pakistan, that win was simply put aside, nobody cared and everyone was upset why on earth they didnt not win the series. Even Draw was not an option.
What i am trying to say is, India lost 1st and 2nd Test and lets be honest South African bowlers did not allow you to chase 208 and 287 very comfortably. In the 3rd Test, intensity never remains the same. If Your win at Wanderers had tied the result to 1-1, yes i would have been the first person to acknowledge it.
Your best win in South Africa was in 2006 Johannesburg test. Cuz it was the 1st Test. You also lost that series 2-1.
This Indian team was termed as the best one to win overseas but Sir they did not even drew this series. It was same 2-1 result. Means 2006 or 2018....no improvement.

 

[The All Rounder]

I see that a lot of neutral and Pakistani fans brush aside the win as "Dead Rubber" while we Indian fans consider this win as more than that.

To put things in perspective, the Bull ring wicket has been termed as poor by the ICC because it favored pace bowlers to an unfair extent. When SA visited India , the Nagpur wicket was termed poor because it favored spin bowlers to an unfair extent. Both were low scorers and both were dominated by bowlers and one team was the winning side on both occasions! (I am almost tempted to ask "what now SA? can't play spin and can't play pace! ;P - just joking!)

More so the recent test match because it was won by a creed of bowlers which India was historically never known for...that is why it is seen as a huge thing by the Indian fans.

And for Pakistani fans - it is like telling what if the Pakistani batting line up from 1-7 all scored a fifty plus score in a test match abroad and you win...how would you feel? (even if that is a dead rubber)

I think we are forgetting one very important point here.

South Africa won the first test with 10 men only and their strike Bowler Steyn was unable to bowl in 2nd innings. Target was only 208. How can Team India fans easily forget the drubbings they got in Centurion and Cape Town ?.

Poms came to South Africa and won the series 2-1 on South African soil and let me tell you, England did not celebrate test series win that much. They also beat Proteas on home soil 3-1 and again it was normal celebration. But here you have won 1 dead rubber and ??? well.

 

[Rightarmfast]

And how about the drubbing your seniors got in June ? And well let me repeat it again You Lost the Test series. Dead Rubbers are not remembered in history.

Lolz, who cares what happened in June? Keep on celebrating it for the next 100 yrs while your team gets drubbed 5-0!

Dead rubbers are not remembered, maybe... But the tag of No 1 is remembered which India retained. Too bad, ICC doesnt take into account what PP'ers think of dead rubbers. Why dont you lodge a complaint with them?

 

[Tusker]

LOL someone missed me......
I do hate but more importantly i want my team to win.You are behaving like you won the series 2-1. come back to earth man. Lol $1 million is peanuts for most of the boards and players.By the way congratulations on winning the meaningless "dead rubber"

Good. Keep the hate burning ... look at who is #1 and will remain so (even if SA wins against Aus) because of the supposed "dead rubber" win. Look at how SA was whinging about their own pitch .. )

 

[Tusker]

This test shows that test cricket is still the premier format and test players will always be superior to LOI players, as a result.

I would gladly give up the two T20s we've won in NZ to win a "dead rubber" test match in Australia or South Africa.

However, let's not go overboard. The last test did not mean as much to the South Africans as the first two did because they knew that they were getting the trophy anyway and that the #1 ranking will eventually be theirs.

News flash ... the winner of the #1 trophy (The Mace and $1 mil prize money) has been decided already ... SA wont get it even if they whitewash AUS. SA had a chance if they won 3-0. This is why there are no dead rubbers anymore. India lost the #1 ranking due to a rained off match in 2016 vs WI.

 

[Bilal7]

If wishes were horses...

Stay with what we know, rather than hopeful/biased predictions. As of now, the score for the last two series played in India and SA is 4-2 in India's favor with one draw. Not only by the formula driven unbiased ICC ranking but also by any reasonable assessment India is ahead of SA at this point.

Yes, but head to to head is not the only criteria for being the #1 ranked team in the world otherwise Pakistan would be far ahead of India given what has transpired in the last few matches between the two.

England have a positive head to head ratio against South Africa as well over the last couple of years but the rankings take into account a team's performances against the other teams as well. With India being so hopeless overseas, so much so that their fans are partying over a FLUKE victory in a dead rubber and England carrying more passengers than a commercial aircraft, South Africa are the #1 team in the world.

India's fake #1 ranking was exposed in England a few years ago. I'm afraid history will only repeat itself.

 

[Bilal7]

News flash ... the winner of the #1 trophy (The Mace and $1 mil prize money) has been decided already ... SA wont get it even if they whitewash AUS. SA had a chance if they won 3-0. This is why there are no dead rubbers anymore. India lost the #1 ranking due to a rained off match in 2016 vs WI.

Why do you keep bringing up the $1 million? Yes, the mace will stay with India but South Africa can still get to the #1 ranking later this year.

 

[Robert]

[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] I dunno, I think India could win in England. Their bowling will be effective and their batting is no worse than England's.

 

[Chrish]

Definitely rate the runs higher then they are made while series is still alive. One of the main reasons why I rate SRT higher than Lara.

That being said all tests matter. I am sure SA did everything they could to whitewash India this time around while India fought hard to retain some dignity despite the loss.

 

[ElIdolo]

Dead rubber is a dead rubber be it Test or ODI unless India is involved. I remember them celebrating winning a consolation game in ODI series against Australia like they have won the WC. The only difference was that series was already decided with Australia winning 4-0.

 

[Napa]

I love the way these Indian Team fans try to completely ignore the fact they lost TEST series in South Africa 2-1. It is not champions league where we are counting away goals.

And SA lost 3-0 in India. So your point is?

 

[Napa]

How can India be ahead? They have won at home and lost away. If anything they are even. If India lose in England, which is most likely, they'll end up looking like dopes yet again. Test number one dopes.

Simply because they won at home by a bigger margin than the margin by which SA won in their home.

ICC ranking points give equal weight to games played in India and SA.

It is pretty obvious who the dope is here.

 

[Napa]

Yes, but head to to head is not the only criteria for being the #1 ranked team in the world otherwise Pakistan would be far ahead of India given what has transpired in the last few matches between the two.

The sub-thread was about whether SA is better than India.

India's fake #1 ranking was exposed in England a few years ago. I'm afraid history will only repeat itself.

I assume if India loses in England you will go back to claiming Pakistan is the "true #1" like you did just before it got whitewashed in NZ and Aus... and then by SL at home for good measure.

 

[Saurav]

Yeah! My bad - one more sub 30 average bowler. I am sure he is itching to put in some performances abroad so that people like me do not leave him out in the future. Although I don't seem him in the playing eleven unless Ashwin is injured or we by miracle pick two spinners looking at the surface (perhaps the Oval and Sydney?)

Should have done that at Centurion.Specially in 2nd innings where Ash couldn't do much

If Ashwin performs badly he should be replaced soon.He'll be on his toes.

Ashwin is better bat,but bowling is equal and fielding Jaddu wins.

I actually think Jaddu would have started if he had not got viral in 1st Test,going by form in India.Now Ash has taken the opportunity.

 

[Abdullah]

I agree there are no dead rubbers and each match counts towards ranking points.
Buy I must say this is the weakest Saffer team I have seen in 17 years of cricket.
England beat them quite easy home and away which says it all really.
India missed a huge opportunity this tour especially with that centurion pitch and if u put a kohli in the pak side I would back us to win.
Our bowlers can rip up that batting line up of we get the same conditions

 

[Romali_rotti]

South Africa can thank their lucky stars they won 2 crucial toss in the first 2 test matches otherwise at worst India would have drawn the series. Very unlike the demolition 4-0 India recently gave SA in India. India competed wayyy better overall when both series taken into consideration...

 

[Romali_rotti]

South Africa can thank their lucky stars they won 2 crucial toss in the first 2 test matches otherwise at worst India would have drawn the series. Very unlike the demolition 4-0 India recently gave SA in India. India competed wayyy better overall when both series taken into consideration...

Might I also add, Kohli's bone headed decisions to drop Rahane and Bhuveneshwar Kumar also majorly bailed SA from a potential series defeat...

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

South Africa can thank their lucky stars they won 2 crucial toss in the first 2 test matches otherwise at worst India would have drawn the series. Very unlike the demolition 4-0 India recently gave SA in India. India competed wayyy better overall when both series taken into consideration...

3-0, Bangalore was rained off.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

You havent done better than the rest. England have done better away, winning a series in SA and then beating them at home.

If we're looking at just asian sides, since Jan 2011, Pak has the best win/loss ratio outside Asia while even SL were better than India lol

Maybe the win over SA has edged India above SL, I'm not sure.

So your own criteria of "better than the rest" isn't true. Try again.

Now check eng performance in ban.
You need to check our performance after we became no.1 not before it.so overall we have been unbeatable at home and lost a 2 1 series to sa.(after we became no.1)so you are wrong try again.

 

[Mamoon]

Over the two Test series vs South Africa (2015 and this one), India have shown that they are a superior Test team without a doubt.

 

[Bigbb]

The amount of hot air that indian fans have pumped in this shallow victory, one would think that they have won the series.

Looks like someone's really unable to digest the fact that India have won a test match in south Africa in the most challenging conditions for a sub continent team... where they themselves couldn't even compete on their previous tours

 

[Bigbb]

Oh!!! That was one game (yes...it came at a big stage ...in the final)...but still you guys have totally forgot how your team got DRUBBED everytime they faced us...It took almost three years for you to win a game against us..which includes five straight defeats..And now all of a sudden your team has almost become invincible for you...
Really MAN

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Dead rubber or not,a test win abroad is definitely something to be proud of.On an unfavourable wicket,India did really well.

 

[BaankeJi]

None of the teams treated it as a dead rubber. Both teams wanted to win it badly.
That said, SA won the test series. That cannot be taken away from them.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

*bump*


The ICC should look at making these dead rubbers a bit more exciting and meaningful. The intensity levels are pretty poor today.

Any suggestions?

 

[Adijazz1706]

Dead rubbers are usually lost by the series winners, the hunger just isn't there. Happened last England Ashes, might happen again today. India have been great tho

 

[dani2k]

BUMP..

It all started with the dead rubber (take note of #5 ,#6 and #7 especially) culminating in today's series win.

 

[Junaids]

BUMP..

It all started with the dead rubber (take note of #5 ,#6 and #7 especially) culminating in today's series win.

This is also why Pakistan must try to win at Johannesburg rather than “resting” key players.

I’m still angry that they turned a 1-0 defeat into a 2-0 defeat at Hamilton two years ago by chasing an impossible target and losing ten wickets in the final session.

Losing 2-1 is only a third of as bad as 3-0.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Winning or atleast drawing dead rubbers is still better than getting whitewashed on an away tour. I still remember the horrible year 2011 when India got whitewashed 8-0 in England and Australia. Still gives me nightmares. Thankfully, we atleast drew or won atleast 1 test in every away series after that and look where have ended up.

Everytime PAK have gone into the southern hemisphere in the last 8 years, they have been thrashed like minnows and lost every single match. In Australia, specifically, this has been happening for 23 years. Does that mean you give up on your next match at Wanderers or the tour of Australia coming up next year? Absolutely not. You fight and fight and earn your draw/win even if it makes no difference to the series, rankings etc and gain the respect of the opposition. So NO there are no real dead rubbers when you play for your country's pride .

 

[Napa]

What does everyone think? Is there such a thing in Test cricket? Indian fans on social media reckon there is no such thing as dead rubber matches in Test cricket. Thoughts?

If you care about your country's ICC Test ranking, then obviously there is no such thing as a "dead rubber". Right now the competition for the #1 position is somewhat close, so for India there certainly are no dead rubbers.

 

[Napa]

Dead rubbers are usually lost by the series winners, the hunger just isn't there. Happened last England Ashes, might happen again today. India have been great tho

Didn't happen in the last Test of the England in India series, or the India in England series...

 

[Saurav]

No dead rubbers in Tests

Pak fans will still wanna win next Test won't they

 

[hadi123]

Unlike in ODI's and T20I's , where dead rubbers don't tend to mean much, they are still pretty important in Tests. We've seen before how a team can lose a series but win a dead rubber and it just gives so much confidence to a side. For example India won the dead rubber in SA and this really gave them hope that they are capable of winning games away from home, as they still had the England and Australia tour upcoming. As a Pakistan fan I'd still be buzzing if we won the 3rd Test, but I highly doubt it will happen

 

[hadi123]

BUMP..

It all started with the dead rubber (take note of #5 ,#6 and #7 especially) culminating in today's series win.

Agreed. It gave you confidence in England too, yes you lost 4-1 but you were very competitive. Also, I recall that when SA beat Australia 2-1 in 2016, it was Australia that won the dead rubber, and that changed things for them that summer as they went on to whitewash Pakistan 3-0 and looked like a settled team.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't really put much store by winning dead rubbers if you have already lost the series. Obviously it's better than losing 3-0, but it doesn't really tell you much as it's far easier to perform once there is no pressure of winning or losing a series. It's the equivalent of scoring a late consolation goal in football, absolutely meaningless and tells you little about the character of your players.

 

[Varun]

There are no dead rubbers in test cricket.

Pakistan should aim to win the game coming up regardless.

 

[Buffet]

Entire SC had single digit wins in Aus before 2 Indian wins took it to double digit.

Similarly, entire SC has 6 wins in SA so far.

Winning the dead rubber can mean a lot in such situations.

 

[Buffet]

Teams will love to win few tests in India even if it's a dead rubber. In recent years, it's been rare for visiting teams.

 

[happydavy]

2-1 is much much better than 3-0. Pakistan's team biggest problem is lack of confidence and a victory against SA will be a huge boost to this team. I hope they bat first and score 275+ playing agressively. That's 80% of work done to win the match. If Pakistan bats second, I am not sure they will be able to win.

Yes they have lost the series but they should aim to get the second best possible outcome now, which is to win the match. That's how you move on in life, not by sulking on losses.

 

[rhony]

Winning the 3rd game is very important. The 2nd innings batting was excellent in the last test and Pak should continue the momentum. DuPlessis absence will certainly help and it's time to capitalize.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Unlike in ODI's and T20I's , where dead rubbers don't tend to mean much, they are still pretty important in Tests. We've seen before how a team can lose a series but win a dead rubber and it just gives so much confidence to a side. For example India won the dead rubber in SA and this really gave them hope that they are capable of winning games away from home, as they still had the England and Australia tour upcoming. As a Pakistan fan I'd still be buzzing if we won the 3rd Test, but I highly doubt it will happen

They still lost heavily in England and same would've happened if Smith and Warner were playing in Australia. So that theory falls flat imo

 

[hadi123]

They still lost heavily in England and same would've happened if Smith and Warner were playing in Australia. So that theory falls flat imo

They lost in England but they competed a lot, only 1 match they were outplayed in, and I'm sure as a unit a Test victory in SA (albeit a dead rubber) will give you a lot of confidence, at least compared to winning a dead rubber in an ODI or T20

 

[geraltofrivia]

Bump.

 

[Abdullah]

Not the same as when the series is alive, but not totally dead.
In this game, it wasn't dead at all for Pak as they were playing for futures,
The SA team selection also didn't look like they treated it as dead either.
It can't equal a series being on the line game though

 

[dani2k]

So....winning a dead rubber is not as easy as it sounds. Agreed?

People who were so dismissive of that feat would now have realized this fact. Winning a test match abroad has become incredibly hard for all teams and ANY win abroad is just gold dust.

This is going to become even more apparent and important in the second half of this year when the test championship points come into effect