The 5 batters & 5 bowlers strategy from the Pakistan think tank for the 2nd Test vs Sri Lanka

[Xoib]

Can someone explain Babar/Saqlain fascination with playing 5 specialist bowlers and 5 batsmen strategy .

We continue to play a batsman light and the 5th bowler always gets underbowled and its not like it is helping us bowl teams out quickly they still are conceding 350 odd runs every innings. Any reasonable views explaining this I am all ears.

 

[Robert]

Can someone explain Babar/Saqlain fascination with playing 5 specialist bowlers and 5 batsmen strategy .

We continue to play a batsman light and the 5th bowler always gets underbowled and its not like it is helping us bowl teams out quickly they still are conceding 350 odd runs every innings. Any reasonable views explaining this I am all ears.

It works if one of your five bowlers can take wickets and bat in the top six, like Imran Khan.

 

[Amjid Javed]

The same poor combination was used in Australia and it simply doesnt work.

1) Our batting is poor yet "Captain/coach" seem to think playing 5 batsmen is enough.

2) we arent even picking the best 5 batsmen, apart from on the pathetic pindi highway vs Aussies the batting is being carried by Abdullah and Babar

3) Rizwan in tests right now is not consistent enough to be batting in top 5, he should be at number 6.

4) the so called all rounde fahim/nawaz are doing a job as a bowler but they are not good enough with the bat to be batting number 7 its one place to high.

A batting all rounder (strongest suit) should be at 7, if they are a bowling all rounder ( strongest suit) then they should be batting 8.

5) The so called 5 man bowling attack means are tail starts at 7 which has been exposed in last 4 tests including this one.

6) Then out of the 5 bowlers we keep picking Hasan as a useless pacer and atleast 1 useless spinner.

Unless babar changes his captaincy and team selections he needs to be removed as captain.

Pakistan have messed up for two series in a row now with poor selections.

its clearly obvious babar is reluctant to get rid of trash like Azhar, fawad, hasan, nauman.

fringe players like ghulam or saud or fringe seamers like rauf/dhani wont get a game while clueless captain is in charge.

4 games in which our batting has been a shambles 1st inns. bowling with 5 bowlers has been mediocre and then batting last weve ended up chasing huge totals or had to try save the game.

we will lose to both eng and NZ at home if we continue with poor selections.

 

[Savak]

The problem is that the bowlers and batsmen being picked are horrible.

 

[MenInG]

To be honest this would work if we didnt have the kind of collapse which we had in the 1st innings.

 

[Xoib]

To be honest this would work if we didnt have the kind of collapse which we had in the 1st innings.

Our batting is not deep enough to handle collapses which can happen and useless 5 bowlers are not helping us bowl teams out quickly

 

[ElRaja]

its not 5 batsman and 5 bowlers, its 4 batsman and 6 bowlers given agha salman was preferred over other batsman due to his bowling.

its a terrible strategy that just makes it look like u have no confidence in your spinners. pak would not have been materially worse off had nauman ali not played, but having another batsmen in the team would have added at least 25 runs.

 

[Rana]

Babar, Saqlain, Rizwan, the whole lot are the softest think tank I have seen in the past 20 years being a Pakistan fan. All lack personality and charisma. All lack strength in making the right, necessary decisions.

The sad thing is that Pakistan have no one else besides Babar who guarantees a Test spot, and Rizwan is preferred over Sarfaraz just for the sake of it.

Very sorry state of affairs

 

[shamaan]

This is why I was not in the favour of picking Nauman after Agha wasn't going to get dropped.

 

[sweep_shot]

5 bowlers is too much.

They should play 6 batsmen and 4 bowlers. One of the batsmen can chip in with a few overs (if needed).

 

[James]

Are there more specialist batsmen? When Shafique has a rare failure at the top of the order, runs seem to be a problem.

 

[Savak]

5 bowlers which includes a minimum of 3 pacers are needed if one of the pacers is a tear away 150 km/hr plus bowler who needs to be used in short sharp bursts and the other two pacers can do the holding job.

 

[Amjid Javed]

To be honest this would work if we didnt have the kind of collapse which we had in the 1st innings.

weve had collapses in 2nd, 3rd test vs Aus in 1st inns and two tests here. Yet pakistan still persist with stupid plans.

 

[Ahmed216]

Rizwan shouldn't be batting above 6. Slotting him at 4 is ridiculous.
Depending on bits n pieces is never going to work in test cricket.
It should be 5 batters(picked on merit) + WK + 1 AR(spinner or pacer Depending on conditions) + 4 Bowlers

 

[Marooned]

Rizwan shouldn't be batting above 6. Slotting him at 4 is ridiculous.
Depending on bits n pieces is never going to work in test cricket.
It should be 5 batters(picked on merit) + WK + 1 AR(spinner or pacer Depending on conditions) + 4 Bowlers

Atleast fawad should come ahead of Rizwan this innings, it's crazy.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Rizwan shouldn't be batting above 6. Slotting him at 4 is ridiculous.
Depending on bits n pieces is never going to work in test cricket.
It should be 5 batters(picked on merit) + WK + 1 AR(spinner or pacer Depending on conditions) + 4 Bowlers

So basically uve named the same team combination? how is that an improvement.

we dont not have a world class top 6 yet, you want a bowling all rounder at 7? which means a long tail still?

The number 7 spot should be a player whose strongest suit is batting as they are playing as the 6th batsmen.

 

[Ahmed216]

So basically uve named the same team combination? how is that an improvement.

we dont not have a world class top 6 yet, you want a bowling all rounder at 7? which means a long tail still?

The number 7 spot should be a player whose strongest suit is batting as they are playing as the 6th batsmen.

No it's not the same. Currently they are playing with 5 bowlers and 4 batters+WK. One of nawaz/agha/faheem should play

 

[Titan24]

4) the so called all rounde fahim/nawaz are doing a job as a bowler but they are not good enough with the bat to be batting number 7 its one place to high.

A batting all rounder (strongest suit) should be at 7, if they are a bowling all rounder ( strongest suit) then they should be batting 8.

This, or the other thing can be to have an all rounder at 7 as well as 8 if we are talking about guys like Shadab, Faheem, Nawaz, Zafar etc. Like we had against Eng in 2018 with Faheem and Shadab both playing and providing batting depth.

None of them as a batsman alone is good enough to be playing at no 7 after which the tail starts.

Or have a batting all rounder at no 7.

 

[Xoib]

Play 5/6 bowlers then get a target of 500 + to chase in last innings

 

[Xoib]

Atleast fawad should come ahead of Rizwan this innings, it's crazy.

Yes its moronic to fit in Fawad both Rizwan and Babar have to shift their batting position while Fawad tendulkar gets to bat at his set slot who makes these strategies?

 

[Amjid Javed]

No it's not the same. Currently they are playing with 5 bowlers and 4 batters+WK. One of nawaz/agha/faheem should play

Nawaz or faheem at 7 is still one batting spot to high. There batting is not good enough alone to be seen that of a top 6 batter.

Agha is a mediocre player as well.

 

[shamaan]

Are there more specialist batsmen? When Shafique has a rare failure at the top of the order, runs seem to be a problem.

Hurraira is an opener however he's young
Omair Bin yousuf is good but he's got along way yet.

 

[shamaan]

So basically uve named the same team combination? how is that an improvement.

we dont not have a world class top 6 yet, you want a bowling all rounder at 7? which means a long tail still?

The number 7 spot should be a player whose strongest suit is batting as they are playing as the 6th batsmen.

Shadab is good enough to bat at 7 nawaz should be bat at 8.

 

[Justcrazy]

Your queation is itself flawed , there is No thinktank in pakistan cricket.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I'll be honest and will give Babar some credit to actually try dare by changing the look of the team (although it hasn't proven to be a balanced move). For 12 years, we had been playing with top 6 plus wicketkeeper and 3 pacers/1 spinner or 2 pacers/2spinners strategy.

The current balance quite possibly led to a defeat in 3rd test vs Australia at home with our batting ending at no.6.

But I think you're not going to learn until you try something new. And you don't need to try something new unless you're winning all the time (which we weren't).

 

[imshally81]

Pakistan should go with 6 specialist batsmen + 4 bowlers + 1WK

 

[Amjid Javed]

Shadab is good enough to bat at 7 nawaz should be bat at 8.

Thats alot more sensible and makes sense.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I'll be honest and will give Babar some credit to actually try dare by changing the look of the team (although it hasn't proven to be a balanced move). For 12 years, we had been playing with top 6 plus wicketkeeper and 3 pacers/1 spinner or 2 pacers/2spinners strategy.

The current balance quite possibly led to a defeat in 3rd test vs Australia at home with our batting ending at no.6.

But I think you're not going to learn until you try something new. And you don't need to try something new unless you're winning all the time (which we weren't).

The way Babar wants to balance team in theory can work, but when you pick mediocre batsmen and bowlers; plus a bowling all rounder batting to high, plus batting rizwan to high its asking for trouble.

Both Aussies series defeat and possible drawn series here is down to poor team selection.

 

[Rana]

Pakistan should go with 6 specialist batsmen + 4 bowlers + 1WK

Shafique
Imam
Babar
Kamran
Saud
Rizwan
Faheem
Nawaz
Shadab
Shaheen
Naseem

Not the worst side given the current circumstances

 

[Ahmed216]

Shafique
Imam
Babar
Kamran
Saud
Rizwan
Faheem
Nawaz
Shadab
Shaheen
Naseem

Not the worst side given the current circumstances

Looks like a decent side but don't think Pak management will ever pick a 11 without 'experienced' players like azhar and fawad.
Only change I would make is yasir in place of shadab

 

[Hectic]

This is a horrendous test team and only a couple of outstanding performances from Abdullah and Babar in 4th innings have saved them from total humiliation this year.

Azhar, Fawad, Nauman and Agha are all waste of space who have no business being anywhere near the team. Big question marks over Imam, Yasir, Hasan and Naseem too.

Babar belongs at 4. What is he doing at 3 and exposing himself to the new ball? Why is the wicketkeeper batting at 4? Keepers always bat at 6-7 because of the immense workload on them in the field. Fawad who can't buy a run at 5, a debutant at 6 and then the bowlers. Basically if one of Abdullah or Babar fail you're into the tail instantly. If both fail it's basically game over.

Then the bowlers. Spinners bar Nawaz are completely toothless in friendly conditions. Seamers bar Afridi have little control and incapable of taking wickets.

You don't have to be a rocket science to know that the best balance in Asian conditions is:

1-6 Proper batsmen
7 WK
8 Allrounder

3 spinners and 1 seamer if it's a rank turner, or 2 spinners and 2 seamers if you're more comfortable going down that route.

Whatever you do, just DON'T weaken your batting by picking 5 bowlers. And DON'T pick bits and pieces cricketers like Agha. What is even his role? His batting numbers are poor and his bowling numbers are poor. What is he playing as in this series?

A complete recipe for disaster and it's pathetic to see how Pakistan have butchered this WTC. No matches in SENA countries in this cycle, only favorable away tours. They won't ever get an easier chance to reach the final and they've bottled it. Shocking management.

 

[Zeshan547]

Shafique
Imam
Babar
Kamran
Saud
Rizwan
Faheem
Nawaz
Shadab
Shaheen
Naseem

Not the worst side given the current circumstances

It's actually the best side currently possible, just swap babar and Karman batting position because best batter alwys bat at 4, and other thing is if we go with a turner vs eng and Nz, we should have sajid khan for Faheem, he is also can chip in with few runs as well even though not as good as Faheem with bat but it will mean we have all kind of spin options, left arm, leg spin, and off spin, right arm pacer and left arm pacer, on paper attack with all bases covered, plus there could have been specialist spinners but they are as good as worse than Nawaz and shadab with ball plus without their batting ability, this will atleast give us batting depth to compensate quality with quantity plus variety in bowling.

 

[Rana]

It's actually the best side currently possible, just swap babar and Karman batting position because best batter alwys bat at 4, and other thing is if we go with a turner vs eng and Nz, we should have sajid khan for Faheem, he is also can chip in with few runs as well even though not as good as Faheem with bat but it will mean we have all kind of spin options, left arm, leg spin, and off spin, right arm pacer and left arm pacer, on paper attack with all bases covered, plus there could have been specialist spinners but they are as good as worse than Nawaz and shadab with ball plus without their batting ability, this will atleast give us batting depth to compensate quality with quantity plus variety in bowling.

I think Babar at no.3 is very important for Pakistan

He is the only batsman since Inzimam, Yousuf and Younis Khan who plays free flow with a strike rate of 55+ in the side. He sets the tone differently and eases the nerves for the middle order with the scoreboard ticking.

The problem since Younis left was Azhar batting at 3 and not setting the tone at all for the side with his below par strike rates and general discomfort at the crease.

Kamran looks like a solid option and he should be in the side but I fear he is another one of the mould of Misbah, Azhar, Fawad, Abdullah Shafique…the kind of guys that will score big once they have played 50+ deliveries for 10 runs

 

[u0sama]

Imam
Shafique
Shan
Babar
Saud
Faizan Riaz, genuine batsman at this position
Rizwan
Fahim
Yasir
Nawaz
Shaheen

My 11 for home series against Eng and NZ

 

[Rana]

Babar on song goes at 70-80 sr

He is the perfect number 3 if Pakistan want to return to its old days of batting at a consistent run rate or 3.5

Misbah’s strategy in the UAE whilst rebuilding Pakistan after the 2010 horror show in England has been highly detrimental in the long run with all of the negative mindset players coming through

 

[PakEngFan]

Shafique
Imam
Babar
Kamran
Saud
Rizwan
Faheem
Nawaz
Shadab
Shaheen
Naseem

Not the worst side given the current circumstances

Tbh this is a very good line up on paper. It’s about time we get rid of fawad, Azhar etc. I would also get Haider Ali involved in test set up.

 

[Xoib]

Why was the successful team combination changed?

Last year we were doing quite well with Faheem Ashraf providing the balance coming in at 7 making useful scores and bowling economical overs , why was this combination disrupted with us playing a taileneder at 7 and exposing an already weak batting line up with a longer tail.

 

[NeVerMind]

Last year we were doing quite well with Faheem Ashraf providing the balance coming in at 7 making useful scores and bowling economical overs , why was this combination disrupted with us playing a taileneder at 7 and exposing an already weak batting line up with a longer tail.

Mickey Arthur, for all his mistakes, believed in playing Faheem and Shadab in the test 11 as this gave you two bowlers and two batsmen rather than just one of each. Both have been crucial and have played match saving knocks. It's time we bring both of them back...

 

[Kroll]

Batting is very light and mediocre and I would also say its effectively 4 batsmen as Agha was preferred due to his bowling. Rizwan batting too high as well.

View attachment 116

 

[Bewal Express]

Poor selection in the 1st test- we got away with it. Poor selection in the 2nd and we got nailed

 

[Amjid Javed]

Poor selection in the 1st test- we got away with it. Poor selection in the 2nd and we got nailed

poor selection in 2nd and 3rd tests vs Aussies as well.

 

[Bewal Express]

poor selection in 2nd and 3rd tests vs Aussies as well.

We don't know who is doing the selecting but whoever it is( Babar,Saqi or M Wasim) they are poor selectors. This match should be the last for Nauman, Hasan, Fawad, AA and Yasir

 

[shah_1]

The whole team is unbalanced

Two ARs at 6 and 7 is never a great option.


Doesn't work at all but it shows Babar lack of trust in his main spinners

 

[PakHammer]

We don't know who is doing the selecting but whoever it is( Babar,Saqi or M Wasim) they are poor selectors. This match should be the last for Nauman, Hasan, Fawad, AA and Yasir

Agree M Wasim with his PowerPoints has been useless. Afraid to drop ineffective seniors like Azhar, Fawad and Hasan. Then bringing in players in the test side who don't deserve it like AA Salman, Sajid Ali & N Ali. He needs to go now. Aamir Sohail should be the new Chief selector.

 

[shariqnoor]

6 batsmen + 1 WK + 4 bowlers has stood the test of time.

Pakistan doesn't have the batsmen or the bowlers to deviate from the above combination.

Only in rare situations where the pitch is an absolute pancake should you play with 5 bowlers.

I blame Babar Azam because he is not sharp and his match awareness is shoddy.

Misbah was a horses for courses captain which is why he was exceptional as test captain. He realised 2 spinners and 2 fast bowlers was the way to go in the UAE and he went undefeated. As soon as he went, Sarfraz along with Mickey thought 3 fast bowlers is the way to go in UAE. Got truly decimated.

Pakistan needs a strong captain who has the ability to assess match conditions and situations.

 

[Bewal Express]

Agree M Wasim with his PowerPoints has been useless. Afraid to drop ineffective seniors like Azhar, Fawad and Hasan. Then bringing in players in the test side who don't deserve it like AA Salman, Sajid Ali & N Ali. He needs to go now. Aamir Sohail should be the new Chief selector.

A Sohail was awful as a selector. In the early 2000s, Abdul Rauf was red hot and this loudmouth chose Junaid Zia, a guy so bad that he wouldn't have even played Bham league player

 

[Saj]

The 5 batters theory can really only work if you have genuine all-rounders at number 7 and 8 which Pakistan didn't have.

Nawaz at 7 and then 4 tail-enders was a recipe for disaster.

 

[Energy]

5 bowlers (4 spinners) but couldn't take 20 wickets on a spinning wicket tells you how pathetic our bowling is.

Nauman and Hassan are free loaders. Garbage level performances off late.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The way Babar wants to balance team in theory can work, but when you pick mediocre batsmen and bowlers; plus a bowling all rounder batting to high, plus batting rizwan to high its asking for trouble.

Both Aussies series defeat and possible drawn series here is down to poor team selection.

Which brings back the topic "How much does M Wasim back the captain?" and why doesn't he provide babar the guys he wants

 

[Amjid Javed]

The 5 batters theory can really only work if you have genuine all-rounders at number 7 and 8 which Pakistan didn't have.

Nawaz at 7 and then 4 tail-enders was a recipe for disaster.

The 5 batters theory also needs you to have 5 top class batsmen. We have one in babar and rest are unreliable. no way pakistan are going to score big with just 5 batsmen when you have imam, Azhar and fawad in your line up.

 

[shamaan]

Ramiz should hold the management team accountable including Wasim.

 

[Saj]

The 5 batters theory also needs you to have 5 top class batsmen. We have one in babar and rest are unreliable. no way pakistan are going to score big with just 5 batsmen when you have imam, Azhar and fawad in your line up.

True.

In addition one of your batters has played a few Tests, another in just his 2nd Test.