The Babar Azam versus Virat Kohli comparison

[Arajit]

Again..

All that has happened in the last 2-3 years takes me back to that one tweet made by Babar Azam back in mid-2022 when Kohli was going through a horrid phase and Babar, the batter was on a steady rise.

"This too shall pass.. stay strong".


Call me whatever you want...But no one can ever convince me that tweet was made in good conscience by any stretch of imagination. Babar knew exactly what he/his handler was doing and what they were aiming for at that time. That was one of the sneakiest, lamest and the most conniving attempt at diminishing Kohli and establishing Babar Azam as the new chief and to make the world actually believe it...all the while making him seem holier than thou. And BOY OH BOY did that proverbial fecal balloon blew back in Babar's face or what..

2 Years have passed by since then..

Virat Kohli has now retired a World Champion being MOTM in the final, Player of the tournament in the other format's WC, won Asia cup ...whilst battering Pakistan 2-3 times on his way and completed LOI cricket.

Meanwhile..

Babar Azam is buried in depths of despair leading his team to multiple tournament humiliations , multiple defeats to rank minnows in all formats to go with his own 'worse than mediocre' batting performances. And naughty boy is also on the verge of getting sacked from captaincy for the second time in 8 months...tsk tsk.

Karma/fate is just *chef's kiss*... it devours everyone that tries to duck it. Hope Bobby boy realises atleast now where it all went wrong..

Yep that tweet was aimed at what you said and earn some points as new King.
Sportperson don't express these kind of gestures (and even they do they don't make it puiblic) to other sports person from another country unless they are buddies. (like AB Div and Virat are).
Thats why Virat never returned favor by tweeting when Babar was struggling in 2022 T20 WC. Neither he is doing now when Babar is under fire as a captain.

 

[usman.sandhu]

Babar Azam remains a very good ODI and Test batter.

In T20s, sorry their game does not fit in a strong T20 team.

They can remain as lynchpins playing their safe game style in weak batting sides like SL/Afghanistan/Zimbabwe or other associate members but will not get into an Aus/Ind/Eng/SA playing XI.

Yes his amazing performances in the ODI World Cup 2023 and the Australian test tour prove his might with the bat in the ODI and Test arena..!!

Accept the fact that he is a mediocre player please... stop living in delusion...

 

[ramki]

You need to go by a different metric.

Can Babar make the Indian team?

He cannot make the playing 11 of Indian T20I or ODI team. Maybe the test team.

 

[Thanos]

The fact that Babar hasn't posted a single congratulatory msg to either India or Kohli seems to support your theory.

That's just gutter behavior from Babar (and his agency ,- but he has to take responsibility).

Now it has been pointed out here, a congratulatory social media post must be getting drafted.

 

[globetrotter]

In fact there is no comparison of Babar with Virat Kohli. PCB should act fast on the dismal performance of Pakistan team otherwise fans think pak team is best and I wouldn’t surprised if I read next title as “Azam khan Vs.Rohit Sharma comparison”

 

[Cricket Warrior]

In fact there is no comparison of Babar with Virat Kohli. PCB should act fast on the dismal performance of Pakistan team otherwise fans think pak team is best and I wouldn’t surprised if I read next title as “Azam khan Vs.Rohit Sharma comparison”

Iin ODI n Test cricket we can compare but not in T2o cricket

 

[usman.sandhu]

Iin ODI n Test cricket we can compare but not in T2o cricket

There is no comparison in any format, please stop this delusion..

Virat Kohli dominated Australia in Australia in Tests, did you see Babar's recent test series in Australia...

 

[NishanKonar]

The thing is Babar Azam was massively overhyped and at some point even Babar started believing in all that hype. He started thinking he is King Babar. The new King of cricket. And all that success went to his head. That's why he made that now infamous tweet to Kohli bcoz he genuinely thought he was at the same level as Kohli if not better.

Then came that crushing defeat at the Asia Cup against India and that burst the bubble. Suddenly Babar started wondering if he was actually that good. Lot of self doubts crept in his mind. That has badly affected his technique & batting style. And since then he has never looked the same. Bcoz right now he is no longer playing for the team. He is more focused on salvaging his battered reputation. That's the worst situation for any team player

Its bit like Cristiano Ronaldo. Right now he is just obsessed in playing full 90 mins and hoping against hope that a miracle happens and his reputation is salvaged. That's not how the world pf sport works

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Quickest batters to 30 List A hundreds:​

180 innings - Babar Azam

199 - Virat Kohli

225 - Hashim Amla

259 - Martin Guptill

262 - Shikhar Dhawan

267 - Sachin Tendulkar

275 - Rohit Sharma

 

[Farabi]

@cricketjoshila @uppercut @Mesozoic @Bhaijaan

Every YouTube video about Babar Azam seems to have at least three or four top ranked comments from Indians calling him “Zimbabar,” liked and upvoted by other Indians. While Babar isn’t Kohli, the sheer amount of hate and disrespect he receives from Indian fans is unreal. It honestly speaks volumes about how talented he must be to make so many people this uncomfortable.

 

[uppercut]

@cricketjoshila @uppercut @Mesozoic @Bhaijaan

Every YouTube video about Babar Azam seems to have at least three or four top ranked comments from Indians calling him “Zimbabar,” liked and upvoted by other Indians. While Babar isn’t Kohli, the sheer amount of hate and disrespect he receives from Indian fans is unreal. It honestly speaks volumes about how talented he must be to make so many people this uncomfortable.

Its not hate its just trolling which is a result of Over the top Pakistani's who try to bracket Babar alongside with Kohli. And for what its worth the facts arent in Babar's favor.

 

[Farabi]

Its not hate its just trolling which is a result of Over the top Pakistani's who try to bracket Babar alongside with Kohli. And for what it’s worth the facts arent in Babar's favor.

Yes, so it’s from both sides right.
You cant say it’s one-sided. People from both sides need to act maturely and sensibly.

 

[uppercut]

Yes, so it’s from both sides right.
You cant say it’s one-sided. People from both sides need to act maturely and sensibly.

Thats never going to happen .... there will always be absolute village idiots who will do what village idiots do. Cant get triggered by such people. There is plenty of them right here on PP.

 

[Mesozoic]

@cricketjoshila @uppercut @Mesozoic @Bhaijaan

Every YouTube video about Babar Azam seems to have at least three or four top ranked comments from Indians calling him “Zimbabar,” liked and upvoted by other Indians. While Babar isn’t Kohli, the sheer amount of hate and disrespect he receives from Indian fans is unreal. It honestly speaks volumes about how talented he must be to make so many people this uncomfortable.

That's just the byproduct of Pakistani fans hyping him up to undeserving levels and disrespecting Kohli along the way.

Truth is..he has as many Test hundreds outside the subcontinent as Anil Kumble who used to play at no.11 for India. And in white ball cricket, barring one or two, all his big knocks came against SL, WI and second string sides in meaningless bilaterals who nobody remembers. Pak fans really lost the plot over him and understandably so after a decade of Akmals and Farhats and Shehzads.

 

[Katwalindian]

You need to go by a different metric.

Can Babar make the Indian team?

He cannot make the playing 11 of Indian T20I or ODI team. Maybe the test team.

I will take him anyday of a week over paddikal and dhruv jurels in tests.

 

[Mesozoic]

I will take him anyday of a week over paddikal and dhruv jurels in tests.

Both are not first XI material for India.

 

[Farabi]

That's just the byproduct of Pakistani fans hyping him up to undeserving levels and disrespecting Kohli along the way.

Truth is..he has as many Test hundreds outside the subcontinent as Anil Kumble who used to play at no.11 for India. And in white ball cricket, barring one or two, all his big knocks came against SL, WI and second string sides in meaningless bilaterals who nobody remembers. Pak fans really lost the plot over him and understandably so after a decade of Akmals and Farhats and Shehzads.

You might want to check with Indian cricketers who hold him in high regard. For instance, KL Rahul ranked him among his top 5 batters currently, and Kohli referred to him as “probably the best in the world.
Other than that, I am not wasting my energy on this thread.

 

[Mesozoic]

You might want to check with Indian cricketers who hold him in high regard. For instance, KL Rahul ranked him among his top 5 batters currently, and Kohli referred to him as “probably the best in the world.
Other than that, I am not wasting my energy on this thread.

What part of my post is incorrect? He has just one test hundred outside the subcontinent, which is a fact...same as Anil Kumble.

He has mostly bullied SL, WI, Zim and second strength bowling attacks in ODIs (his strongest format) , which is also a fact. Apart from his WC knock against NZ and one more hundred in SAF, noone even remembers his other knocks. That's how ordinary they were.

I would take anything Kohli says with a pinch of salt. His "role model" changed from Herschelle Gibbs to Sachin Tendulkar to Rahul Dravid to Rocky Ponting over his career..guy is a PR merchant.

 

[Hellion]

@cricketjoshila @uppercut @Mesozoic @Bhaijaan

Every YouTube video about Babar Azam seems to have at least three or four top ranked comments from Indians calling him “Zimbabar,” liked and upvoted by other Indians. While Babar isn’t Kohli, the sheer amount of hate and disrespect he receives from Indian fans is unreal. It honestly speaks volumes about how talented he must be to make so many people this uncomfortable.

Errr no. It speaks volumes about the ridiculous hype from Pakistan fans to which Indian fans have responded .

 

[Farabi]

What part of my post is incorrect? He has just one test hundred outside the subcontinent, which is a fact...same as Anil Kumble.

He has mostly bullied SL, WI, Zim and second strength bowling attacks in ODIs (his strongest format) , which is also a fact. Apart from his WC knock against NZ and one more hundred in SAF, noone even remembers his other knocks. That's how ordinary they were.

I would take anything Kohli says with a pinch of salt. His "role model" changed from Herschelle Gibbs to Sachin Tendulkar to Rahul Dravid to Rocky Ponting over his career..guy is a PR merchant.

I know it helps many Indians swallow the pill more easily by saying second strings Zim, SL. Overall ODI average of 57 and fastest to 5k runs, and now also has the longest streak as no1 ODI batter. If you are making the argument that it was against weaker bowlers, then go look at his batting stats against Starc, Cummins, Rabada etc it’s exceptional. If you don’t have data, then you’re just peddling an opinion.

Here are Babar Azam's ODI runs and batting averages against top teams:

1. Australia: Matches Played: 13, Runs Scored: 686, Batting Average: 68.60
2. England: Matches Played: 20, Runs Scored: 854, Batting Average: 47.44
3. India: Matches Played: 7, Runs Scored: 218, Batting Average: 31.14
4. New Zealand: Matches Played: 20, Runs Scored: 906, Batting Average: 50.33
5. South Africa: Matches Played: 11, Runs Scored: 573, Batting Average: 63.67

Are these WI? Zim?

As for the lack of centuries in tests in SENA, it’s a selective stat. For example, Babar is averaging 65 in England in tests but doesn’t have a century there, so what? 47 in New Zealand, 36 in SA (which is pretty good in SA), it’s only in Aus where he has struggled.

Anyway, the point isn’t that Babar is better than Kohli, but the sheer non sense and negativity calling Babar Zimbabar is extreme negativity. Even your Indian main batters don’t agree with their negative and toxic fans, then Kohli is also wrong. The desperation is endless.

 

[mb3407]

I know it helps many Indians swallow the pill more easily by saying second strings Zim, SL. Overall ODI average of 57 and fastest to 5k runs, and now also has the longest streak as no1 ODI batter. If you are making the argument that it was against weaker bowlers, then go look at his batting stats against Starc, Cummins, Rabada etc it’s exceptional. If you don’t have data, then you’re just peddling an opinion.

Here are Babar Azam's ODI runs and batting averages against top teams:

1. Australia: Matches Played: 13, Runs Scored: 686, Batting Average: 68.60
2. England: Matches Played: 20, Runs Scored: 854, Batting Average: 47.44
3. India: Matches Played: 7, Runs Scored: 218, Batting Average: 31.14
4. New Zealand: Matches Played: 20, Runs Scored: 906, Batting Average: 50.33
5. South Africa: Matches Played: 11, Runs Scored: 573, Batting Average: 63.67

Are these WI? Zim?

As for the lack of centuries in tests in SENA, it’s a selective stat. For example, Babar is averaging 65 in England in tests but doesn’t have a century there, so what? 47 in New Zealand, 36 in SA (which is pretty good in SA), it’s only in Aus where he has struggled.

Anyway, the point isn’t that Babar is better than Kohli, but the sheer non sense and negativity calling Babar Zimbabar is extreme negativity. Even your Indian main batters don’t agree with their negative and toxic fans, then Kohli is also wrong. The desperation is endless.

Why was he unsold at the 100?

 

[Farabi]

Why was he unsold at the 100?

Another irrelevant stat

 

[Mesozoic]

I know it helps many Indians swallow the pill more easily by saying second strings Zim, SL. Overall ODI average of 57 and fastest to 5k runs, and now also has the longest streak as no1 ODI batter. If you are making the argument that it was against weaker bowlers, then go look at his batting stats against Starc, Cummins, Rabada etc it’s exceptional. If you don’t have data, then you’re just peddling an opinion.

Here are Babar Azam's ODI runs and batting averages against top teams:

1. Australia: Matches Played: 13, Runs Scored: 686, Batting Average: 68.60
2. England: Matches Played: 20, Runs Scored: 854, Batting Average: 47.44
3. India: Matches Played: 7, Runs Scored: 218, Batting Average: 31.14
4. New Zealand: Matches Played: 20, Runs Scored: 906, Batting Average: 50.33
5. South Africa: Matches Played: 11, Runs Scored: 573, Batting Average: 63.67

Are these WI? Zim?

As for the lack of centuries in tests in SENA, it’s a selective stat. For example, Babar is averaging 65 in England in tests but doesn’t have a century there, so what? 47 in New Zealand, 36 in SA (which is pretty good in SA), it’s only in Aus where he has struggled.

Anyway, the point isn’t that Babar is better than Kohli, but the sheer non sense and negativity calling Babar Zimbabar is extreme negativity. Even your Indian main batters don’t agree with their negative and toxic fans, then Kohli is also wrong. The desperation is endless.

Sigh! I've had this exact argument multiple times before on this forum with multiple Babar fanboys , who have now given up on him and accepted that he's just a decent level batter.


All those averages and "quickest to xyz" and the rankings are useless when you take into consideration the level of teams he usually plays in bilaterals. Top teams like Australia , England etc usually field jobber bowling attacks against Pakistan which helped Babar statpad against the likes of Ellis, Abbott, Saqib Mahamood, Overton, Ben Sears etc. I mean...credit to him for doing what he's supposed to do but people are not going to take his stats too seriously without pointing at the elephant in the room.

He's already 30 (on paper mind you) and has been playing international cricket for a good part of 9 years but he has barely played 3-4 high quality knocks that makes a casual fan sit up and say "wow". Kohli had a dozen and a half such knocks by the time he was 30. Only the below knocks of Babar qualify as actually memorable.

1. 196 against Australia in karachi to save a Test.

2. WC 2019 against NZ in a high pressure match

3. An ODI hundred in South Africa against their full strength bowling attack.

4. A hundred in Sri Lanka on a turner in Gaale..


And I'm really really scrapping the barrel by the way.

 

[Farabi]

Sigh! I've had this exact argument multiple times before on this forum with multiple Babar fanboys , who have now given up on him and accepted that he's just a decent level batter.


All those averages and "quickest to xyz" and the rankings are useless when you take into consideration the level of teams he usually plays in bilaterals. Top teams like Australia , England etc usually field jobber bowling attacks against Pakistan which helped Babar statpad against the likes of Ellis, Abbott, Saqib Mahamood, Overton, Ben Sears etc. I mean...credit to him for doing what he's supposed to do but people are not going to take his stats too seriously without pointing at the elephant in the room.

He's already 30 (on paper mind you) and has been playing international cricket for a good part of 9 years but he has barely played 3-4 high quality knocks that makes a casual fan sit up and say "wow". Kohli had a dozen and a half such knocks by the time he was 30. Only the below knocks of Babar qualify as actually memorable.

1. 196 against Australia in karachi to save a Test.

2. WC 2019 against NZ in a high pressure match

3. An ODI hundred in South Africa against their full strength bowling attack.

4. A hundred in Sri Lanka on a turner in Gaale..


And I'm really really scrapping the barrel by the way.

You’re just repeating a bunch of opinions.
Where is the data? Who are the best bowlers and what is his performance against those bowlers, and how does it compare to other batters?

 

[Mesozoic]

You’re just repeating a bunch of opinions.
Where is the data? Who are the best bowlers and what is his performance against those bowlers, and how does it compare to other batters?

Oh bhai...go and check out the bowling attacks in the matches he has scored 90% of his ODI or T20 hundreds. He's hyped to the moon only because he has 19 ODI hundreds and 3 T20i hundreds in his career so far.

We all saw in the last three ICC tournaments and the last two Asia cups on what he actually is capable of doing when teams field strong bowling attacks.

 

[Farabi]

Ooga booga average 55 Ooga booga quickest to this Ooga booga boo! Sigh! I've had this exact argument multiple times before on this forum with multiple Babar fanboys , who have now given up on him and accepted that he's just a decent level batter.


All those averages and "quickest to xyz" and the rankings are useless when you take into consideration the level of teams he usually plays in bilaterals. Top teams like Australia , England etc usually field jobber bowling attacks against Pakistan which helped Babar statpad against the likes of Ellis, Abbott, Saqib Mahamood, Overton, Ben Sears etc. I mean...credit to him for doing what he's supposed to do but people are not going to take his stats too seriously without pointing at the elephant in the room.

He's already 30 (on paper mind you) and has been playing international cricket for a good part of 9 years but he has barely played 3-4 high quality knocks that makes a casual fan sit up and say "wow". Kohli had a dozen and a half such knocks by the time he was 30. Only the below knocks of Babar qualify as actually memorable.

1. 196 against Australia in karachi to save a Test.

2. WC 2019 against NZ in a high pressure match

3. An ODI hundred in South Africa against their full strength bowling attack.

4. A hundred in Sri Lanka on a turner in Gaale..


And I'm really really scrapping the barrel by the way.

I am waiting for the data. If you bring convincing data, I will agree with you. Pick 4 best teams, define best bowlers

Oh bhai...go and check out the bowling attacks in the matches he has scored 90% of his ODI or T20 hundreds. He's hyped to the moon only because he has 19 ODI hundreds and 3 T20i hundreds in his career so far.

We all saw in the last three ICC tournaments and the last two Asia cups on what he actually is capable of doing when teams field strong bowling attacks.

I am waiting for you to back up your claim that babar hasn’t performed against best bowlers of his time.
I want you to go define who these “ best bowlers are”, then get Babar’s numbers against these “best bowlers”, and then compare it with some other batters of the same age (30 years or so).
Waiting. If you don’t get the data, then don’t show up on this thread again. You’re wasting our time just posting whatever comes to your mind. I can write whatever I want/wish, it doesn’t make it right unless I have evidence.

 

[Farabi]

Ooga booga average 55 Ooga booga quickest to this Ooga booga boo! Sigh! I've had this exact argument multiple times before on this forum with multiple Babar fanboys , who have now given up on him and accepted that he's just a decent level batter.


All those averages and "quickest to xyz" and the rankings are useless when you take into consideration the level of teams he usually plays in bilaterals. Top teams like Australia , England etc usually field jobber bowling attacks against Pakistan which helped Babar statpad against the likes of Ellis, Abbott, Saqib Mahamood, Overton, Ben Sears etc. I mean...credit to him for doing what he's supposed to do but people are not going to take his stats too seriously without pointing at the elephant in the room.

He's already 30 (on paper mind you) and has been playing international cricket for a good part of 9 years but he has barely played 3-4 high quality knocks that makes a casual fan sit up and say "wow". Kohli had a dozen and a half such knocks by the time he was 30. Only the below knocks of Babar qualify as actually memorable.

1. 196 against Australia in karachi to save a Test.

2. WC 2019 against NZ in a high pressure match

3. An ODI hundred in South Africa against their full strength bowling attack.

4. A hundred in Sri Lanka on a turner in Gaale..


And I'm really really scrapping the barrel by the way.

Also, weird that you’re yourself comparing babar with Kohli. I never did that. That’s a weird contradiction.

 

[Mesozoic]

I am waiting for the data. If you bring convincing data, I will agree with you. Pick 4 best teams, define best bowlers

I am waiting for you to back up your claim that babar hasn’t performed against best bowlers of his time.
I want you to go define who these “ best bowlers are”, then get Babar’s numbers against these “best bowlers”, and then compare it with some other batters of the same age (30 years or so).
Waiting. If you don’t get the data, then don’t show up on this thread again. You’re wasting our time just posting whatever comes to your mind. I can write whatever I want/wish, it doesn’t make it right unless I have evidence.

The only reason Babar Azam is hyped as an international batter is because he has scored 19 ODI hundreds and 3 T20i hundreds. His Test record is nothing to write home about and is rightfully regarded as an above average to decent level test batter.

Now let's dissect his ODI hundreds - 11 out of 19 were scored against Sri Lanka, West Indies , Zimbabwe and Nepal. 5 out of the remaining 8 were scored against teams that were playing with second string bowling attacks (for example the 158 against England in 2021 when England had to quarantine their entire starting squad, the two hundreds he got against Australia last year when they were without their pace trio etc etc).


The three T20 hundreds he got were all against second string bowling attacks. Instead of screeching for data , go to cricinfo and check the teams that he got those against and it will probably help you clear up your delusions..

 

[Mesozoic]

Also, weird that you’re yourself comparing babar with Kohli. I never did that. That’s a weird contradiction.

Nah...not comparing.

Just showing the mirror to those who think both are on the same level.

 

[mb3407]

Another irrelevant stat

Nah. Shows his percived vlaue on world stage and free market

 

[Mesozoic]

Nah. Shows his percived vlaue on world stage and free market

Babar is a mediocre T20 batter anywhere outside UAE. And even in UAE, he's only useful when his side is bowling first on a sticky wicket in the evening and he has to chase down a below par total under lights with dew in full effect. That's literally his only use case.

On any normal flat T20 wickets he will end up playing a slow selfish knock and cost his team the game..no sane franchise will shell their $$$ at him.

 

[Farabi]

Oh bhai...go and check out the bowling attacks in the matches he has scored 90% of his ODI or T20 hundreds. He's hyped to the moon only because he has 19 ODI hundreds and 3 T20i hundreds in his career so far.

We all saw in the last three ICC tournaments and the last two Asia cups on what he actually is capable of doing when teams field strong bowling attacks. Alas..you're way too sensitive to see the reality so you'd once again just say I'm just trolling so nevermind.

Here you go. Babar Azam averages 45, 66, and 39 in Test, ODIs and T20s vs Starc, Cummins, Rabada, Bumrah and Boult.

The only reason Babar Azam is hyped as an international batter is because he has scored 19 ODI hundreds and 3 T20i hundreds. His Test record is nothing to write home about and is rightfully regarded as an above average to decent level test batter.

Now let's dissect his ODI hundreds - 11 out of 19 were scored against Sri Lanka, West Indies , Zimbabwe and Nepal. 5 out of the remaining 8 were scored against teams that were playing with second string bowling attacks (for example the 158 against England in 2021 when England had to quarantine their entire starting squad, the two hundreds he got against Australia last year when they were without their pace trio etc etc).


The three T20 hundreds he got were all against second string bowling attacks. Instead of screeching for data , go to cricinfo and check the teams that he got those against and it will probably help you clear up your delusions..

i still didn’t see the data against so called “best bowlers”. Who are the first string bowlers and what are his performances against those first string bowlers. I have the data. I am waiting for you to get it, so you can face the mirror yourself.

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli is no benchmark for Babar at least not in Test cricket. A guy who is struggling to average 48 and doesn’t even have 10k runs by the age of 36 doesn’t belong on the table of great Test batsmen.

Babar doesn’t need to do much to match/surpass Kohli in Test format.

 

[Farabi]

Nah...not comparing.

Just showing the mirror to those who think both are on the same level.

The debate started with me calling out Indian fans who mock Babar as "Zimbabar," which you should have condemned as stupid if you had any cricketing sense. You started implying he only performs against Zimbabwe, WI SL. It shifted to claims about "second-string" centuries and no Test hundreds outside Asia.But there’s still no data about how Babar is the only one playing “weak teams” but other batters from all the teams are always playing “best 11s” in ODI cricket. Where is this data.

While Babar isn’t at Kohli’s level yet, he’s on track to be a GOAT anyway. Unlike Kohli, who has had strong batting support, Babar has carried a struggling team under immense pressure from the day he debuted. To me that’s far more special.

 

[Mamoon]

The only reason Babar Azam is hyped as an international batter is because he has scored 19 ODI hundreds and 3 T20i hundreds. His Test record is nothing to write home about and is rightfully regarded as an above average to decent level test batter.

Now let's dissect his ODI hundreds - 11 out of 19 were scored against Sri Lanka, West Indies , Zimbabwe and Nepal. 5 out of the remaining 8 were scored against teams that were playing with second string bowling attacks (for example the 158 against England in 2021 when England had to quarantine their entire starting squad, the two hundreds he got against Australia last year when they were without their pace trio etc etc).


The three T20 hundreds he got were all against second string bowling attacks. Instead of screeching for data , go to cricinfo and check the teams that he got those against and it will probably help you clear up your delusions..

Do the same breakdown for Kohli’s ODI centuries and you will be in for an unpleasant surprise. Kohli doesn’t have more than 15 ODI centuries vs top tier attacks.

 

[Farabi]

Do the same breakdown for Kohli’s ODI centuries and you will be in for an unpleasant surprise. Kohli doesn’t have more than 15 ODI centuries vs top tier attacks.

Yup, the proportion of performances against top-tier attacks is naturally lower for any batter. My pushback was never about Babar being better than Kohli—I agree he isn’t, and we know Babar’s limitations. I called out the extreme trolling from Indians, labeling him "Zimbabar," which @Mesozoic and @mb3407 are defending. It's rock bottom from some Indian fans. I can’t enjoy a single Instagram or YouTube post without seeing top-ranked comments like “Zimbabar,” heavily upvoted by Indians. It’s a pathetic display of non-cricketing sense.

 

[Mamoon]

Yup, the proportion of performances against top-tier attacks is naturally lower for any batter. My pushback was never about Babar being better than Kohli—I agree he isn’t, and we know Babar’s limitations. I called out the extreme trolling from Indians, labeling him "Zimbabar," which @Mesozoic and @mb3407 are defending. It's rock bottom from some Indian fans. I can’t enjoy a single Instagram or YouTube post without seeing top-ranked comments like “Zimbabar,” heavily upvoted by Indians. It’s a pathetic display of non-cricketing sense.

You dissect the record of any top player and you will see that they tend to do better vs weak teams compared to the strongest teams. Viv Richards didn’t play his own bowlers in Test cricket who were the best of his era, and he struggled vs Pakistan who were the second best of his era.

Miandad didn’t do well vs West Indies bowlers. You can go on and on. Tendulkar himself did his fair share of weak bowling bashing in his own time.

People apply this logic only when it suits them. As far “Zimbabar” is concerned, some troll started this trend and idiots have jumped on the bandwagon without even doing their research. He has hardly played them in his career. In fact, guys like Fakhar and Imam have cashed on Zimbabwe a lot more than Babar has.

 

[Hawkeye]

You dissect the record of any top player and you will see that they tend to do better vs weak teams compared to the strongest teams. Viv Richards didn’t play his own bowlers in Test cricket who were the best of his era, and he struggled vs Pakistan who were the second best of his era.

Miandad didn’t do well vs West Indies bowlers. You can go on and on. Tendulkar himself did his fair share of weak bowling bashing in his own time.

People apply this logic only when it suits them. As far “Zimbabar” is concerned, some troll started this trend and idiots have jumped on the bandwagon without even doing their research. He has hardly played them in his career. In fact, guys like Fakhar and Imam have cashed on Zimbabwe a lot more than Babar has.

Zimbabar does not mean he only bashes Zimbabwe.

It’s a general taunt meaning he only does well against the minnows or associate nations. Nepal, anyone?

Babar completely goes missing on any big stage in white ball cricket and against half decent bowling in Tests.

 

[Farabi]

Babar is a mediocre T20 batter anywhere outside UAE. And even in UAE, he's only useful when his side is bowling first on a sticky wicket in the evening and he has to chase down a below par total under lights with dew in full effect. That's literally his only use case.

On any normal flat T20 wickets he will end up playing a slow selfish knock and cost his team the game..no sane franchise will shell their $$$ at him.

Kohli has stat-padded in T20s, with half his runs scored in India at a strike rate of 148. However, his strike rate drops below 135 outside India, and he has just one century, which came against Afghanistan in the UAE.

 

[Farabi]

Zimbabar does not mean he only bashes Zimbabwe.

It’s a general taunt meaning he only does well against the minnows or associate nations. Nepal, anyone?

Babar completely goes missing on any big stage in white ball cricket and against half decent bowling in Tests.

Exactly, I get it. But when questioned, the narrative often quickly shifts—from Zimbabwe and Nepal to “second-string bowling attacks,” and then to hundreds outside Asia. All batters capitalize on weaker bowlers; the question isn’t whether Babar has cashed in, but whether he’s *only* done so. While criticism of his ICC performances is fair, his numbers against top-tier bowlers still stand out as exceptional.

 

[Mesozoic]

Here you go. Babar Azam averages 45, 66, and 39 in Test, ODIs and T20s vs Starc, Cummins, Rabada, Bumrah and Boult.

You can replace Bumrah by Kuldeep, Starc by Hazlewood, Boult by Southee, add in Rashid Khan into those and his stats fall back to his level.

https://www.cricmetric.com/matchup.py?batsman=Babar+Azam&bowler=JR+Hazlewood&bowler=PJ+Cummins&bowler=K+Rabada&bowler=Kuldeep+Yadav&bowler=TG+Southee&bowler=Rashid+Khan&bowler=A+Zampa&groupby=year

 

[Mesozoic]

The debate started with me calling out Indian fans who mock Babar as "Zimbabar," which you should have condemned as stupid if you had any cricketing sense. You started implying he only performs against Zimbabwe, WI SL. It shifted to claims about "second-string" centuries and no Test hundreds outside Asia.But there’s still no data about how Babar is the only one playing “weak teams” but other batters from all the teams are always playing “best 11s” in ODI cricket. Where is this data.

While Babar isn’t at Kohli’s level yet, he’s on track to be a GOAT anyway. Unlike Kohli, who has had strong batting support, Babar has carried a struggling team under immense pressure from the day he debuted. To me that’s far more special.

I never said "he only performs against Zim, SL , WI. Stop projecting lol. I just stated the bare fact that vast majority of his big knocks (due to which he's hyped by the way) came against extremely weak bowling attacks. Can't believe people still have doubts over that. You can literally go to cricinfo, check the scorecards for the games he scored big and check the bowling attacks he faced..

And good for you if you rate Babar highly for being the only consistent batter in his side. But don't push the "he's on track to be a GOAT" down our throats. GOATs don't get embarassingly dropped from the biggest format for their sides like Babar did. And GOATs actually have dozens of x-factor knocks by the time they're 30.

 

[Farabi]

You can replace Bumrah by Kuldeep, Starc by Hazlewood, Boult by Southee, add in Rashid Khan into those and his stats fall back to his level.

https://www.cricmetric.com/matchup.py?batsman=Babar+Azam&bowler=JR+Hazlewood&bowler=PJ+Cummins&bowler=K+Rabada&bowler=Kuldeep+Yadav&bowler=TG+Southee&bowler=Rashid+Khan&bowler=A+Zampa&groupby=year

I never said "he only performs against Zim, SL , WI. Stop projecting lol. I just stated the bare fact that vast majority of his big knocks (due to which he's hyped by the way) came against extremely weak bowling attacks. Can't believe people still have doubts over that. You can literally go to cricinfo, check the scorecards for the games he scored big and check the bowling attacks he faced..

And good for you if you rate Babar highly for being the only consistent batter in his side. But don't push the "he's on track to be a GOAT" down our throats. GOATs don't get embarassingly dropped from the biggest format for their sides like Babar did. And GOATs actually have dozens of x-factor knocks by the time they're 30.

This discussion is going in circles because you still haven’t presented any credible data to support the claim that Babar has uniquely benefited from scoring heavily against weaker attacks. I could just as easily cherry-pick 4-5 bowlers Kohli has struggled against to show poor numbers for him.

Analyze the top 25-30 bowlers of Babar’s era and compare his performances to contemporaries like KL Rahul or Labuschagne. Until then, stop grasping at straws to make a baseless point. You keep shifting the argument, but I’m not letting this slide. You know how to use Cricmetric—do the analysis. What are you afraid of?

 

[Mesozoic]

Do the same breakdown for Kohli’s ODI centuries and you will be in for an unpleasant surprise. Kohli doesn’t have more than 15 ODI centuries vs top tier attacks.

Nope...I mean Kohli did bully weaker attacks but proportionately it's much much lesser than Babar's.

Kohli's first 20 ODI hundreds had -

-- 183 against Pakistan
-- Hobart knock against Sri Lanka
-- Two hundreds in Sri Lanka in the 2012 series (mind you this is a strong SL of 2012 we're talking about with bowling of Malinga, Kulasekara, Herath etc)
-- Two hundreds while chasing 350+ against Australia in 2013 series (against a full strength Australian bowling attack).
-- Hundred against NZ in Napier 2014 (Against full strength NZ bowling attack barring Boult)..

And the biggest difference from Babar? Kohli got to his 19th hundred when he was just 25 and hadn't even reached his peak years yet..Babar is already 30 and he still has 19. If we begin comparing Kohli's best knocks by the time he was 30, it will get even more embarassing.

 

[Mesozoic]

This discussion is going in circles because you still haven’t presented any credible data to support the claim that Babar has uniquely benefited from scoring heavily against weaker attacks. I could just as easily cherry-pick 4-5 bowlers Kohli has struggled against to show poor numbers for him.

Analyze the top 25-30 bowlers of Babar’s era and compare his performances to contemporaries like KL Rahul or Labuschagne. Until then, stop grasping at straws to make a baseless point. You keep shifting the argument, but I’m not letting this slide. You know how to use Cricmetric—do the analysis. What are you afraid of?

Sigh! Blame lies on me to have continued this discussion when it's clear that you've lost the plot a long time ago.

And lol at comparing to KL and Labuschagne. Definitely "GOAT material" if you wanna compare him to a couple of above average batters from India and Australia.

 

[Mesozoic]

Kohli has stat-padded in T20s, with half his runs scored in India at a strike rate of 148. However, his strike rate drops below 135 outside India, and he has just one century, which came against Afghanistan in the UAE.

Kohli's performance in the 2014 and 2016 WT20s alone are bigger than Babar's entire white ball career. Let us be respectful here.

 

[Farabi]

Sigh! Blame lies on me to have continued this discussion when it's clear that you've lost the plot a long time ago.

And lol at comparing to KL and Labuschagne. Definitely "GOAT material" if you wanna compare him to a couple of above average batters from India and Australia.

There you go, I’ve made my point. This data won’t come because you know exactly what it would show. Babar Azam is a phenomenal batter. While it's true he's cashed in against weaker teams, it's equally true that he's held his own, if not dominated, some of the best bowlers in the world.

As for comparing him to KL Rahul to Lab , it’s surprising, but is that really the pool of his contemporaries who debuted around the same time. The Fab 4 are 5-6 years Babar’s seniors.

 

[Farabi]

Kohli's performance in the 2014 and 2016 WT20s alone are bigger than Babar's entire white ball career. Let us be respectful here.

Kohli is an extraordinary batter, likely one of the best ever. He’s always had immense support from other great batters in the Indian team to learn from and lean on. However, his strike rate in T20s outside India remains relatively mediocre. If it weren’t for the highway roads in India and had he played as an opener, where dismissals are more frequent because you always play 20 overs, his record might resemble Babar’s.

His Test record is great, but not GOAT-level. In a country like Pakistan, he might have even been dropped by now based on his recent performances in Tests.

 

[Mamoon]

Nope...I mean Kohli did bully weaker attacks but proportionately it's much much lesser than Babar's.

Kohli's first 20 ODI hundreds had -

-- 183 against Pakistan
-- Hobart knock against Sri Lanka
-- Two hundreds in Sri Lanka in the 2012 series (mind you this is a strong SL of 2012 we're talking about with bowling of Malinga, Kulasekara, Herath etc)
-- Two hundreds while chasing 350+ against Australia in 2013 series (against a full strength Australian bowling attack).
-- Hundred against NZ in Napier 2014 (Against full strength NZ bowling attack barring Boult)..

And the biggest difference from Babar? Kohli got to his 19th hundred when he was just 25 and hadn't even reached his peak years yet..Babar is already 30 and he still has 19. If we begin comparing Kohli's best knocks by the time he was 30, it will get even more embarassing.

I have got you exactly where I wanted you to be. It is so easy for me to expose your hypocrisy. You are nitpicking Babar’s centuries but don’t want to do the same to Kohli because it doesn’t suit your narrative.

I repeat: if you dissect all of Kohli’s ODI hundreds, you will not find more then 15 hundreds vs top attacks and even that number will probably be inflated.

Let’s go over each innings that you highlighted and see if the fit the bar that you have established for Babar.

183 against a Pakistan attack that had washed up Gul, Wahab, Aizaz Cheema on a pitch where Hafeez and Jamshed scored centuries. Ajmal was the only good bowler that he encountered. This innings doesn’t certainly does pass the high standards you have established for Babar.

Centuries on dead wickets vs Sri Lanka. Their bowling attack was weak minus Malinga but yes we can consider these as good knocks considering Malinga was a dangerous bowler at the time.

The twin centuries vs “full strength” Australian attack in 2013 on ultra flat wickets included bowlers like Johnson, Clint McKay, Watson, Doherty and Faulkner. In what world are these bowlers minus Johnson a “full strength” Australian attack in 2013?

These two hundreds were by no means any better than Babar’s twin hundreds vs Australia in 2022.

Hundred vs NZ in Napier in 2014 - you yourself mentioned that Boult was not there, so how can it be a “full strength” attack?

You clearly don’t understand what “full strength” means, but we know that already based on your laughable assertion that an Australian bowling attack of McKay, Watson, Doherty and Faulkner was “full strength” in 2013 when the likes of Starc, Cummins and Hazlewood had all made their ODI debuts by 2010-11.

 

[Mesozoic]

183 against a Pakistan attack that had washed up Gul, Wahab, Aizaz Cheema on a pitch where Hafeez and Jamshed scored centuries. Ajmal was the only good bowler that he encountered. This innings doesn’t certainly does pass the high standards you have established for Babar.

The bar is lower than you think and this knocks passes it by a country mile.. chasing 330 against your arch rival and you smash 183 and it doesn't go down as a 'great' knock? Please give me a break.

Centuries on dead wickets vs Sri Lanka. Their bowling attack was weak minus Malinga but yes we can consider these as good knocks considering Malinga was a dangerous bowler at the time.

Their bowling attacks was definitely not weak lol..ateast at home. They reached a world cup final a year before with the same attack. Babar can only dream of decimating a bowler like Malinga at his peak like Kohli did in Hobart. He just doesn't have it in him..

The twin centuries vs “full strength” Australian attack in 2013 on ultra flat wickets included bowlers like Johnson, Clint McKay, Watson, Doherty and Faulkner. In what world are these bowlers minus Johnson a “full strength” Australian attack in 2013?

These two hundreds were by no means any better than Babar’s twin hundreds vs Australia in 2022.

Nope. Wrong again...that indeed was the first choice Australian attack at that time and they all featured in the Champions Trophy 2013. Starc wasn't even established by then. Those knocks were miles better than Babar's hundreds last year which came against a proper second string Australian attack. Kohli scored those at close to 200 SR by the way which Babar just cannot even if he takes another life.

Hundred vs NZ in Napier in 2014 - you yourself mentioned that Boult was not there, so how can it be a “full strength” attack?

You clearly don’t understand what “full strength” means, but we know that already based on your laughable assertion that an Australian bowling attack of McKay, Watson, Doherty and Faulkner was “full strength” when the likes of Starc, Cummins and Hazlewood had all made their debuts by 2010-11

Well that still a decent attack in NZ...not completely second string. Babar bullied a lot of attacks that usually miss 3-4 of their first line bowlers. As I said...the bar is lower than you think.

And yes... Johnson, Faulkner , McKay and Doherty was indeed Australia's first choice ODI bowling attack back in 2013. Looks like you started watching cricket recently..Starc , Hazelwood and Cummins as a trio only became a thing after the 2015 world cup.

 

[Mesozoic]

There you go, I’ve made my point. This data won’t come because you know exactly what it would show. Babar Azam is a phenomenal batter. While it's true he's cashed in against weaker teams, it's equally true that he's held his own, if not dominated, some of the best bowlers in the world.

As for comparing him to KL Rahul to Lab , it’s surprising, but is that really the pool of his contemporaries who debuted around the same time. The Fab 4 are 5-6 years Babar’s seniors.

You need to stop imagining things and read the discussion again without getting too emotional.

I never said Babar isn't a decent bat nor I agreed with those who call him "Zimbabar" or minnow basher or any such names. I just gave you the reason why Indian fans usually troll the fugg out of him online..and that is the constant desperate comparisons to Kohli and their cringeworthy efforts to force him into the "Fab 5" who are all a level above him. You got too senty and somehow imagined that I was calling him a minnow basher who only performs against minnows which I never did..

 

[Mamoon]

The bar is lower than you think and this knocks passes it by a country mile.. chasing 330 against your arch rival and you smash 183 and it doesn't go down as a 'great' knock? Please give me a break.

So now you are playing the “arch rivals” card because you can’t hype up an innings played on a flat pitch against bowlers like washed up Gul, Cheema, Wahab.

It is funny how Indian fans can switch from “no one considers Pakistan a rival anymore” to “Pakistan are arch rivals” based on the narrative that they are pushing.

Their bowling attacks was definitely not weak lol..ateast at home. They reached a world cup final a year before with the same attack. Babar can only dream of decimating a bowler like Malinga at his peak like Kohli did in Hobart. He just doesn't have it in him..

Their bowling attack wasn’t strong without Malinga, and their bowling attack wasn’t strong in the 2011 World Cup either. They reached the final on the back of their top order who scored lots of runs.

There were only two Sri Lankan bowlers in the top 20 wicket takers in the 2011 World Cup - Murali (who retired after the final) and Malinga.

Sri Lankan ODI bowling in that period was bang average minus Malinga, but because Malinga was in his prime and Kohli dominated him, so those three hundreds vs SL were definitely good and I have already mentioned that in my previous post.

Nope. Wrong again...that indeed was the first choice Australian attack at that time and they all featured in the Champions Trophy 2013. Starc wasn't even established by then.

Between 2010-2012, Starc averaged 20 with the ball in ODIs. He also played in the 2013 CT. An Australian ODI bowling attack without Starc in 2013 was by no means “full strength”. Please look up the definition of “full strength”.

Pat Cummins was continuously injured between 2011-2014. He barely played international cricket in this period. How can Australia field a “full strength” attack when one of their hottest young pacers is injured?

The bowling attack that Kohli feasted on in 2013 on super flat pitches vs the complete opposite of a full strength/first choice attack.

Those knocks were miles better than Babar's hundreds last year which came against a proper second string Australian attack.

Kohli’s knocks vs Australia in 2013 also came vs a proper second string attack as proved above.

Kohli scored those at close to 200 SR by the way which Babar just cannot even if he takes another life.

Babar scored a 72 ball century while chasing 350. 100 in 72 balls must be embarrassing slow.

Well that still a decent attack in NZ...not completely second string. Babar bullied a lot of attacks that usually miss 3-4 of their first line bowlers. As I said...the bar is lower than you think.

I agree, still a decent attack but not full strength. I hope you are clear on the definition of full strength/first choice now.

And yes... Johnson, Faulkner , McKay and Doherty was indeed Australia's first choice ODI bowling attack back in 2013.

Already addressed above.

Looks like you started watching cricket recently..Starc , Hazelwood and Cummins as a trio only became a thing after the 2015 world cup.

I don’t know how old you are, but judging by how you are rewriting history about what Australia’s best attack was in 2013 and how good Sri Lanka’s ODI bowling was in 2011-12, it is clear to me that I probably started watching cricket before you came into this world.

 

[Mesozoic]

So now you are playing the “arch rivals” card because you can’t hype up an innings played on a flat pitch against bowlers like washed up Gul, Cheema, Wahab.

It is funny how Indian fans can switch from “no one considers Pakistan a rival anymore” to “Pakistan are arch rivals” based on the narrative that they are pushing.

We are talking about 2012 here when pakistan were still a decent ODI side that ended up winning the Asia cup so yes they were our rivals for sure. "Pakistan are not our rivals" is more a 2023-24 thing..

Between 2010-2012, Starc averaged 20 with the ball in ODIs. He also played in the 2013 CT. An Australian ODI bowling attack without Starc in 2013 was by no means “full strength”. Please look up the definition of “full strength”.

Pat Cummins was continuously injured between 2011-2014. He barely played international cricket in this period. How can Australia field a “full strength” attack when one of their hottest young pacers is injured?

The bowling attack that Kohli feasted on in 2013 on super flat pitches vs the complete opposite of a full strength/first choice attack.

All of it doesn't change the fact that Australia fielded their strongest possible ODI bowling line-up that played in an ICC tournament a few months prior to the series. You can call Cummins "hot" or cold or whatever you like but he was definitely not making the Aussie first XI. And by the way , their "hottest young pacer" was not even in their first XI for the 2015 world cup even when he was available. So much for all the hotness....

Kohli’s knocks vs Australia in 2013 also came vs a proper second string attack as proved above

Nope. No attack that features in an ICC event as a group will be considered "second string" by any one

 

[Farabi]

I have got you exactly where I wanted you to be. It is so easy for me to expose your hypocrisy. You are nitpicking Babar’s centuries but don’t want to do the same to Kohli because it doesn’t suit your BS narrative.

I repeat: if you dissect all of Kohli’s ODI hundreds, you will not find more then 15 hundreds vs top attacks and even that number will probably be inflated.

Let’s go over each innings that you highlighted and see if the fit the bar that you have established for Babar.

183 against a Pakistan attack that had washed up Gul, Wahab, Aizaz Cheema on a pitch where Hafeez and Jamshed scored centuries. Ajmal was the only good bowler that he encountered. This innings doesn’t certainly does pass the high standards you have established for Babar.

Centuries on dead wickets vs Sri Lanka. Their bowling attack was weak minus Malinga but yes we can consider these as good knocks considering Malinga was a dangerous bowler at the time.

The twin centuries vs “full strength” Australian attack in 2013 on ultra flat wickets included bowlers like Johnson, Clint McKay, Watson, Doherty and Faulkner. In what world are these bowlers minus Johnson a “full strength” Australian attack in 2013?

These two hundreds were by no means any better than Babar’s twin hundreds vs Australia in 2022.

Hundred vs NZ in Napier in 2014 - you yourself mentioned that Boult was not there, so how can it be a “full strength” attack?

You clearly don’t understand what “full strength” means, but we know that already based on your laughable assertion that an Australian bowling attack of McKay, Watson, Doherty and Faulkner was “full strength” in 2013 when the likes of Starc, Cummins and Hazlewood had all made their ODI debuts by 2010-11.

lol! I never knew these were the bowling attacks. This is eye opening. After reading this, I think @Mesozoic should apologize hard.

 

[Mesozoic]

lol! I never knew these were the bowling attacks. This is eye opening. After reading this, I think @Mesozoic should apologize hard.

Read my reply...no need to buy the sweets so soon.

 

[Farabi]

You need to stop imagining things and read the discussion again without getting too emotional.

I never said Babar isn't a decent bat nor I agreed with those who call him "Zimbabar" or minnow basher or any such names. I just gave you the reason why Indian fans usually troll the fugg out of him online..and that is the constant desperate comparisons to Kohli and their cringeworthy efforts to force him into the "Fab 5" who are all a level above him. You got too senty and somehow imagined that I was calling him a minnow basher who only performs against minnows which I never did..

This shows your bias where you’re calling someone who’s been no1 the longest in ODI cricket history as “decent”. It shows that you’re incapable of recognizing the talent other teams possess.

 

[Mesozoic]

This shows your bias where you’re calling someone who’s been no1 the longest in ODI cricket history as “decent”. It shows that you’re incapable of recognizing the talent other teams possess.

Why so sensitive? "Decent" is good..

I posted it in some other thread exposing Babar's jumla ranking which has and still manages to fool his gullible fans. Let me paste it below.

Entered the Asia Cup T20 2022 as the no.1 ranked T20 batter in the world and wasn't even the top 15 run scorers of the tournament.

Entered the ICC T20 WC 2022 as the no.1 ranked T20 batter in the world and wasn't even the top 15 run scorers of the tournament.

Entered the ICC ODI WC 2023 as the no.1 ranked ODI batter in the world and isn't even the top 20 run scorers of this tournament.

And even in the Asia Cup ODI 2023 , if you remove this greatness' pantheon entering 150 knock against Nepal, he scored 56 runs in 3 remaining games against India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.


I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Farabi]

Read my reply...no need to buy the sweets so soon.

I read your response, but I don’t find it convincing. These bowling attacks may have been "first choice," but they were still fairly mediocre—Faulkner, Doherty, Clint McKay. The examples you mentioned were against washed-up, B-grade attacks.

I’d take Saim Ayub’s quick-fire 88 against Zampa, Starc, Cummins, and Hazlewood any day of the week, especially considering it was his debut ODI series.

What’s really desperate here is that you criticized Babar for scoring runs against “WI, SL,” but you’re now naming Kohli’s centuries against SL.

When you factor in Kohli’s mediocre strike rate outside India, his lack of T20 centuries, and his declining record in Test cricket, looking at the data @Mamoon just posted, it seems Kohli has some pretty significant gaps in his career too.

 

[Farabi]

Why so sensitive? "Decent" is good..

I posted it in some other thread exposing Babar's jumla ranking which has and still manages to fool his gullible fans. Let me paste it below.

In evidence, Babar is probably better than any Indian better who debuted after turn of the century bar Kohli overall numbers wise.
There you go, selectively cherry-picking tournaments where he didn’t perform well. Many greats have gone missing in various tournaments too—so what? Can you name a player who has dominated every single tournament?

 

[Mesozoic]

What’s really desperate here is that you criticized Babar for scoring runs against “WI, SL,” but you’re now naming Kohli’s centuries against SL.

When you factor in Kohli’s mediocre strike rate outside India, his lack of T20 centuries, and his declining record in Test cricket, looking at the data @Mamoon just posted, it seems Kohli has some pretty significant gaps in his career too.

Yes that is because Sri Lanka were still a very good ODI side with a decent bowling attack during the time frames of those knocks. Basic common sense...

As far as his T20 batting is concerned..he simply defecates on Babar as a T20 batter. Ofcourse he may have some holes in his record but Babar is a downright terrible T20 bat so the bar is quite low.

 

[Mesozoic]

In evidence, Babar is probably better than any Indian better who debuted after turn of the century bar Kohli overall numbers wise.
There you go, selectively cherry-picking tournaments where he didn’t perform well. Many greats have gone missing in various tournaments too—so what? Can you name a player who has dominated every single tournament?

I'm not cherry picking lol..

He literally didn't have a single impressive tournament performance since 2022. Pointing out pathetic returns in 5 consecutive tournaments in not cherry picking lmao..what are you smoking?

Babar had just one great tournament that was the 2019 WC which came six freaking years ago. That's about it..in 2021, he was just complementing an inform bowling attack until he played a match losing knock in the all important semi final.

 

[Farabi]

Yes that is because Sri Lanka were still a very good ODI side with a decent bowling attack during the time frames of those knocks. Basic common sense...

As far as his T20 batting is concerned..he simply defecates on Babar as a T20 batter. Ofcourse he may have some holes in his record but Babar is a downright terrible T20 bat so the bar is quite low.

Kulasekera, Perera, Mathews—please, give us a break. These were decent knocks, and sure, any century is good, but nothing extraordinary. Babar, in far fewer ODIs, has had more exciting knocks against stronger attacks. We didn’t start watching cricket yesterday.

If Kohli is such a T20 monster, why is his strike rate just 130 outside India, and why does he only have one century, against Afghanistan? Who asked him to do that?

 

[Mesozoic]

Kulasekera, Perera, Mathews—please, give us a break. These were decent knocks, and sure, any century is good, but nothing extraordinary. Babar, in far fewer ODIs, has had more exciting knocks against stronger attacks. We didn’t start watching cricket yesterday.

If Kohli is such a T20 monster, why is his strike rate just 130 outside India, and why does he only have one century, against Afghanistan? Who asked him to do that?

I love how you ignore Malinga and Herath in that list just to suit your agend lol.

And yes.. please list out those "more exciting knocks against stronger attacks". Definitely you should be able to list out atleast 5-6 such knocks for a guy who is 30. Surely?

Never said Kohli is a T20 monster. It's just that Babar is so poor in this format that Kohli's exploits (especially in T20 WCs) look giant sized. Kohli's MCG knock alone is bigger than Babar's entire T20 wc career.

 

[Farabi]

I love how you ignore Malinga and Herath in that list just to suit your agend lol.

And yes.. please list out those "more exciting knocks against stronger attacks". Definitely you should be able to list out atleast 5-6 such knocks for a guy who is 30. Surely?

Never said Kohli is a T20 monster. It's just that Babar is so poor in this format that Kohli's exploits (especially in T20 WCs) look giant sized. Kohli's MCG knock alone is bigger than Babar's entire T20 wc career.

First of all, a great attack means 4-5 top-class bowlers. Malinga was past his prime in 2012, and Herath never really got going in ODIs—he’s mostly known for his Test cricket exploits. Herath has 74 ODI wickets.

As for Babar, his century against South Africa in Centurion, facing Rabada, Nortje, Ngidi, and Shamsi, is probably of higher quality than any of the ones you mentioned.

The great thing about Babar is that he's only 30, the age when most batters peak, and the only player in the Indian team who can be compared to him statistically is Kohli. You’re making that comparison, not me. By the time they both retire, we can revisit it, but I believe Babar will break many more records and have several great innings to his name.

In the 2022 World Cup, Babar scored a match-winning 50 in the semi-final against a full-strength New Zealand attack, including Santner, Boult, Southee, Ferguson, and Sodhi, securing Pakistan's place in the final. The 2023 World Cup was underwhelming for him, but other than that, I don’t see any issues whatsoever.

 

[Mesozoic]

First of all, a great attack means 4-5 top-class bowlers. Malinga was past his prime in 2012, and Herath never really got going in ODIs—he’s mostly known for his Test cricket exploits. Herath has 74 ODI wickets.

Malinga wasn't past his prime by 2012. Go watch his bowling in the 2013 CT and the 2014 WT20 and come back.

As for Babar, his century against South Africa in Centurion, facing Rabada, Nortje, Ngidi, and Shamsi, is probably of higher quality than any of the ones you mentioned.

Agree to disagree. Kohli's 183 against Pak in 2012 Asia Cup eclipses anything Babar will ever achieve in his ODI career. The knock you've mentioned was quite good but it came on a flat road while chasing 260 odd... nothing wow-worthy about it at all like Kohli's 183 or his Hobart knock.

The great thing about Babar is that he's only 30, the age when most batters peak, and the only player in the Indian team who can be compared to him statistically is Kohli. You’re making that comparison, not me. By the time they both retire, we can revisit it, but I believe Babar will break many more records and have several great innings to his name

Well good luck to him. He has a lot of catching up to do if he wants to reach anywhere near Kohli.

In the 2022 World Cup, Babar scored a match-winning 50 in the semi-final against a full-strength New Zealand attack, including Santner, Boult, Southee, Ferguson, and Sodhi, securing Pakistan's place in the final. The 2023 World Cup was underwhelming for him, but other than that, I don’t see any issues whatsoever.

He averaged something like 18 in that T20 world cup. It's definitely a failure for a guy who was ranked so called no.1. Good for you if you see no issue in him failing in 5 consecutive multinational tournaments...

 

[Mesozoic]

Anyone who says Sri Lanka had a mediocre bowling attack in the early 2010s is a certified clown who has no idea what he/she's talking about..

Between 2011-2014 Sri Lanka in ICC tournaments -

-- Made 1 semi-final
-- Made 2 finals
-- 1 Champions

You really think they did all that whilst having a "mediocre bowling attack"?

Just because a group of Malinga , Kulasekara, Herath , Perera etc didn't looks too fancy doesn't mean they were bad.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Babar and Kohli debate has no end. This is never gonna end.

 

[Mamoon]

We are talking about 2012 here when pakistan were still a decent ODI side that ended up winning the Asia cup so yes they were our rivals for sure. "Pakistan are not our rivals" is more a 2023-24 thing..



All of it doesn't change the fact that Australia fielded their strongest possible ODI bowling line-up that played in an ICC tournament a few months prior to the series. You can call Cummins "hot" or cold or whatever you like but he was definitely not making the Aussie first XI. And by the way , their "hottest young pacer" was not even in their first XI for the 2015 world cup even when he was available. So much for all the hotness....




Nope. No attack that features in an ICC event as a group will be considered "second string" by any one

How can it be Australia’s strongest possible attack when two of its best young pacers were not available?

Furthermore, Starc played in the 2013 CT. He did not play vs India. Ergo, Kohli didn’t score the centuries vs a full strength Australian attack.

Your lies have been exposed. You have been educated. Please take it on the chin and move on.

If you want to feed your ego and want to throw the last word, please do so, no problem. However, anyone can see that you argument has been exposed.

 

[Mamoon]

Anyone who says Sri Lanka had a mediocre bowling attack in the early 2010s is a certified clown who has no idea what he/she's talking about..

Between 2011-2014 Sri Lanka in ICC tournaments -

-- Made 1 semi-final
-- Made 2 finals
-- 1 Champions

You really think they did all that whilst having a "mediocre bowling attack"?

Just because a group of Malinga , Kulasekara, Herath , Perera etc didn't looks too fancy doesn't mean they were bad.

Their bowling attack was good in T20Is, not so much in ODIs. You were obviously not old enough to watch the 2011 World Cup. They made the final on the back of Dilshan, Sangakkara and Tharanga.

When you reach a World Cup final with only two bowlers in the top 15 wicket takers and only 1 in the top 5, it clearly reflects that your batting carried your bowling attack.

Pakistan dominated that Sri Lankan bowling attack in ODIs on numerous occasions with substandard batsmen like Hafeez, Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Misbah, Maqsood, Afridi etc.

Now you can rewrite history and tell us that these Pakistani batsmen were not substandard, just like you rewrote history by telling us that bowlers like McKay, Doherty, Faulkner, Watson etc. was the best possible bowlers Australia had in 2013.

 

[Hellion]

Useful Test batsman only at Pindi and Karachi.

The only format where it's even worthy of a comparison is ODIs

 

[Varun]

Why is Babar not playing against his favourite opponent at the moment?

 

[Mesozoic]

How can it be Australia’s strongest possible attack when two of its best young pacers were not available?

Furthermore, Starc played in the 2013 CT. He did not play vs India. Ergo, Kohli didn’t score the centuries vs a full strength Australian attack.

Your lies have been exposed. You have been educated. Please take it on the chin and move on.

If you want to feed your ego and want to throw the last word, please do so, no problem. However, anyone can see that you argument has been exposed.

Starc and Cummins were NOT Australia's first choice in 2013 no matter how desperately you want to push this false agenda.

Starc only played the WI series in early 2013 when AUS needed a 4 man attack and then was regularly dropped for Doherty on slower surfaces. Go and check the Aus XI for the must win CT game against NZ. And answer me why the so-called "best young pacer in the country" was dropped for Doherty while the likes of Johnson, McKay and Faulkner played.

Moreover Starc didn't play a single ODI after the CT until he was brought back for a dead rubber in UAE in 2014. You know who played regularly? Yup.. Johnson, Doherty, McKay and Faulkner. You can't even say Starc was being saved for Tests because he wasn't even a regular for them there.

And just lol at Cummins. He played a grand total of 4 ODIs by then and was on the his crutches more than on the cricket field.

 

[Mesozoic]

These rankings don’t mean anything because it is not a level-playing field. Babar plays a lot of matches against weak teams that boosts his ranking points.

When it is a level-playing field, i.e. all teams playing in same conditions against the same opposition, Babar fails to stand out.

Above is the exact same point I was arguing with Farabi to start with anyways. I am glad you and I have the same viewpoint on Babar benefiting from playing disproportionately more matches against weak bowling attacks.

 

[Mesozoic]

Useful Test batsman only at Pindi and Karachi.

The only format where it's even worthy of a comparison is ODIs

And even there it's pretty dire for Babar as i have proven multiple times on this very thread. His ODI career is nothing but a disasterclass at conmanship of making people beleive you're much better than you actually are.

 

[Bhaijaan]

@cricketjoshila @uppercut @Mesozoic @Bhaijaan

Every YouTube video about Babar Azam seems to have at least three or four top ranked comments from Indians calling him “Zimbabar,” liked and upvoted by other Indians. While Babar isn’t Kohli, the sheer amount of hate and disrespect he receives from Indian fans is unreal. It honestly speaks volumes about how talented he must be to make so many people this uncomfortable.

I will say that those people aren’t real fans of cricket but just deeply influenced by the communal, political hatred. I am from Bharat, a Brahmin Hindu, and i can tell you that majority of the people in my circle talk about Babar, Rizwan, Inzamam, Younis, Misbah with immense respect. Half for their cricketing credentials and the rest for the way they have behaved on field and in media. The likes of Shoaib Akhtar, Afridi, etc are also admired but more for their cricketing ability and less for their behaviour. But Babar Azam in particular is seen as a thorough gentleman and a very very fine batter. His cover drive in undeniably the most elegant looking and many of us wished he had done a lot more for Pakistan.

People tend to behave like animals when they are acting as a collective group in our parts of the world. Genuine fans of the game in both countries will never be disrespectful to great cricketers and especially to well behaved cricketers. For example Misbah may not be the greatest ever but we respect him for stabilising Pakistan cricket with his strong leadership.

 

[Katwalindian]

What part of my post is incorrect? He has just one test hundred outside the subcontinent, which is a fact...same as Anil Kumble.

He has mostly bullied SL, WI, Zim and second strength bowling attacks in ODIs (his strongest format) , which is also a fact. Apart from his WC knock against NZ and one more hundred in SAF, noone even remembers his other knocks. That's how ordinary they were.

I would take anything Kohli says with a pinch of salt. His "role model" changed from Herschelle Gibbs to Sachin Tendulkar to Rahul Dravid to Rocky Ponting over his career..guy is a PR

How can it be Australia’s strongest possible attack when two of its best young pacers were not available?

Furthermore, Starc played in the 2013 CT. He did not play vs India. Ergo, Kohli didn’t score the centuries vs a full strength Australian attack.

Your lies have been exposed. You have been educated. Please take it on the chin and move on.

If you want to feed your ego and want to throw the last word, please do so, no problem. However, anyone can see that you argument has been exposed.

Yeah it's not like babar azam can't play cummins, Hazelwood and starc.

 

[Farabi]

I will say that those people aren’t real fans of cricket but just deeply influenced by the communal, political hatred. I am from Bharat, a Brahmin Hindu, and i can tell you that majority of the people in my circle talk about Babar, Rizwan, Inzamam, Younis, Misbah with immense respect. Half for their cricketing credentials and the rest for the way they have behaved on field and in media. The likes of Shoaib Akhtar, Afridi, etc are also admired but more for their cricketing ability and less for their behaviour. But Babar Azam in particular is seen as a thorough gentleman and a very very fine batter. His cover drive in undeniably the most elegant looking and many of us wished he had done a lot more for Pakistan.

People tend to behave like animals when they are acting as a collective group in our parts of the world. Genuine fans of the game in both countries will never be disrespectful to great cricketers and especially to well behaved cricketers. For example Misbah may not be the greatest ever but we respect him for stabilising Pakistan cricket with his strong leadership.

thanks for the message. I completely understand.

 

[JaDed]

thanks for the message. I completely understand.

Good hopefully all other Babar fans understand it too that over the hill Kohli is miles ahead of Babar in performances, in talent ofcourse Babar is ahead of any Indian ever to play.

 

[Farabi]

Good hopefully all other Babar fans understand it too that over the hill Kohli is miles ahead of Babar in performances, in talent ofcourse Babar is ahead of any Indian ever to play.

And of course you had to jump in and say something negative?

 

[JaDed]

And of course you had to jump in and say something negative?

All positive on Babar’s talent ofcourse.
Indians will always remember Pakistani players are the Brazil of cricket without the tournament wins.