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The Babar Azam versus Virat Kohli comparison

In this forum i have seen threads writing off the likes of Root/Kane/Kohli from time to time. They always come back.
 
Mamoon said:
I don’t need lectures on delusional mentality when you are asserting - with a straight face -that Babar is a better batsman than Rohit Sharma across formats. :91:

Pujara is a much better Test batsman than Babar and while the others might not be fit to tie his shoelaces, they might teach Babar a thing or two about scoring 200s and 300s in Test cricket.

As the great Mirza Ghalib succinctly stated:

“Hum ko maloom hai jannat ki haqeeqat lekin
Dil ko khush rakhnay ko Ghalib ye khayal achha hai”

:101:
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Your comparisons are absurd and illogical. Get over from your hatred towards Pakistani players. Rohit and Pujara are ahead only because they are in their 30s but Babar has greater ceiling to them. It is weird that you talk about ability for Rohit in tests but for Pujara, you talk only about performance.

Babar averages 56 in ODIs and with Dhawan's injury in 2019 WC, he would have sealed his fate by performing in that tournament, not like Rahul who performed in one or two inning but was mostly average.

In tests also, Rahul got plenty of chances and he was dropped after that. Reality is Babar would have been premier batsman alongside Kohli and Rohit in LOIs and in tests, he would have been their premier batsman too( alongside Kohli and Pujara).

As for Rahul, he was given a lot of chances but he is mentally too weak to take them. Other nobodies that you are mentioning like Nair fluked a triple hundred but India would always prefer a special talent like Babar over Nairs or Agarwals.
 
Babar Azam is a genuine world class player and a treat to watch . But for him to be counted with the greatest in the world today , I had wait for him to tick some of the following boxes :
1) Score game changing runs and steer his side home regularly . Especially in crucial knockout matches .
2) Score Test Hundreds in Australia , England and New Zealand . Also dominate the worlds best bowling attacks at home .
 
BreadPakoda said:
Hard to argue with those numbers.

Babar needs to make more impactful runs though. Kohli is Kohli because of the way he ruthlessly takes away games. Babar needs to do that more.
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How? Babar scoring runs means Pakistan win games. I would also stake my claim to Babar in the 2019 world cup as far more impactful than Kohli in any world cup for India.
 
mastimasti said:
How? Babar scoring runs means Pakistan win games. I would also stake my claim to Babar in the 2019 world cup as far more impactful than Kohli in any world cup for India.
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What? A world cup in which you failed to qualify to KO's. What sort of impact is that?
If Azam scored well against win and Australia you might have qualified.
 
Babar cannot chase a 300+ total to save his life (he even failed to get his team over the line vs Zimbabwe) and yet our fans have the audacity to compare him to Kohli.

This last 2 years nonsense means nothing. Stop disrespecting a legend just because he hasn’t been at his best over the last 2 years.

He still has plenty left in the tank and even if he retires today, Babar will never be able to surpass him.

And those who do bhangra over comparing Babar and Kohli at 26, Kohli was already a GOAT chaser when he was 26.

Babar clearly does not have that match-winning ability that Kohli does or had at 26.

He is an Amla type ODI player. Kohli is in a different league altogether.
 
Never take OP opinion seriously when it comes to judging Indian players. Just reaks of bias. How can you have so much hate for a bunch of cricketers? :))

So sad.
 
Just because Kohli hasn’t reached the standards (that only he can reach) over the last 2 years, it doesn’t mean you walk around and compare him to someone like Babar who is no doubt a quality batsmen but does not even have a 1% chance of having a greater legacy than Kohli.
 
How many times has Babar helped his team chase a 300+ score?
 
Hitman said:
He is definitely a good player but it’s outrageous to compare him with a chasing machine like Kohli.
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OP can't be trusted when it comes to rating Indian players. It's sad to see someone have so much hate in their heart for a group of people just because where they are from.
 
Hasan123 said:
But he plays quality bowling the best according to OP. :)
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I mean he is a bloody good player
Of course he plays the quality bowlers well, that's not even a question

But one needs more than that to match a legend of the game that's for sure...
 
Bigboii said:
I mean he is a bloody good player
Of course he plays the quality bowlers well, that's not even a question

But one needs more than that to match a legend of the game that's for sure...
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Never said he is not a good player. But he will never be better than Kohli.
 
Hitman said:
He is definitely a good player but it’s outrageous to compare him with a chasing machine like Kohli.
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No 100 for winning cause while chasing a target 280+.
Total He had two 100s in a career for winning cause while chasing (Targets - 234 & 274)
 
TheNightWatchman said:
Kohli hasn't been a chasing machine for a good 3-4 years
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He hasn’t been but what he did from 2012 to 2016 is more than enough for him to be recognized as the GOAT chaser even 50 years from now.

It is highly unlikely that we will ever see a better chaser than him. Peak Kohli was Tendulkar + Dhoni rolled into one.

He is the only top-order player who is also a lethal finisher.
 
Mamoon said:
He hasn’t been but what he did from 2012 to 2016 is more than enough for him to be recognized as the GOAT chaser even 50 years from now.

It is highly unlikely that we will ever see a better chaser than him. Peak Kohli was Tendulkar + Dhoni rolled into one.

He is the only top-order player who is also a lethal finisher.
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I agree obviously. Don't think there has ever been a more clutch player at any point in international cricket. Comparing the best chaser of all time to Babar is out of the question.
Like he'll play good in the 2nd innings but he won't be able to finish it similar to tendulkar
 
Kohli is Michael Jordan while Babar is Lebron james.
Anyone who watches NBA will know this is exactly how it is
 
My god why do Pakistani fans always try to find someway in making their players seem superior to their Indian counter parts. Never once have I seen an Indian compare their up and coming batsman or bowlers to our more experienced players.

Kohli is an ATG with one of, if not the greatest ODI record. He is a proven match winner with more centuries than Yousuf, Miandad and Inzamam combined, has played multiple knocks which us fans of PCT would have called "innings of the century" if played by our boys and has completely revolutionised Indian cricket.

As much as I do like Babar he is not even close to replicating the feats pulled off by Kohli. Yes he has played some good innings under pressure however he has done nothing in comparison to some of Kohli's greatest feats.

Honestly it's just pathetic that we have to create a thread trying to uplift Babar's batting by diminishing all the great things Kohli has done.

And to answer the question of the thread: Babar scored an 80 not out and 100 against Zimbabwe, this would have inflated his stats big time. I think that tells you everything that needs to be known
 
Abdurmirr said:
My god why do Pakistani fans always try to find someway in making their players seem superior to their Indian counter parts. Never once have I seen an Indian compare their up and coming batsman or bowlers to our more experienced players.
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Or maybe the fact is that they're 1 and 2 on the ODI rank list and one might take over the other so their abilities might be compared . Calm down. It's a harmless discussion
 
Abdurmirr said:
My god why do Pakistani fans always try to find someway in making their players seem superior to their Indian counter parts. Never once have I seen an Indian compare their up and coming batsman or bowlers to our more experienced players.

Kohli is an ATG with one of, if not the greatest ODI record. He is a proven match winner with more centuries than Yousuf, Miandad and Inzamam combined, has played multiple knocks which us fans of PCT would have called "innings of the century" if played by our boys and has completely revolutionised Indian cricket.

As much as I do like Babar he is not even close to replicating the feats pulled off by Kohli. Yes he has played some good innings under pressure however he has done nothing in comparison to some of Kohli's greatest feats.

Honestly it's just pathetic that we have to create a thread trying to uplift Babar's batting by diminishing all the great things Kohli has done.

And to answer the question of the thread: Babar scored an 80 not out and 100 against Zimbabwe, this would have inflated his stats big time. I think that tells you everything that needs to be known
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This whole thread emerged from the "can babar become the no.1 ranked batsmen" thread in which some posters argued that babar didnt deserve to become the first ranked batsmen. Rankings are all about recent form and although kohli is an atg and no one from this generation can be compared to him at present, in terms of rankings babar deserves to be ranked higher than kohli(only in icc rankings) not in overall status
 
Abdurmirr said:
My god why do Pakistani fans always try to find someway in making their players seem superior to their Indian counter parts. Never once have I seen an Indian compare their up and coming batsman or bowlers to our more experienced players.

Kohli is an ATG with one of, if not the greatest ODI record. He is a proven match winner with more centuries than Yousuf, Miandad and Inzamam combined, has played multiple knocks which us fans of PCT would have called "innings of the century" if played by our boys and has completely revolutionised Indian cricket.

As much as I do like Babar he is not even close to replicating the feats pulled off by Kohli. Yes he has played some good innings under pressure however he has done nothing in comparison to some of Kohli's greatest feats.

Honestly it's just pathetic that we have to create a thread trying to uplift Babar's batting by diminishing all the great things Kohli has done.

And to answer the question of the thread: Babar scored an 80 not out and 100 against Zimbabwe, this would have inflated his stats big time. I think that tells you everything that needs to be known
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So when Amla was number 1 batsman in 2010 were people crying about how he'll never be an ATG like tendulkar? It's rankings and form at the moment we're talking about
 
Abdurmirr said:
My god why do Pakistani fans always try to find someway in making their players seem superior to their Indian counter parts. Never once have I seen an Indian compare their up and coming batsman or bowlers to our more experienced players.

Kohli is an ATG with one of, if not the greatest ODI record. He is a proven match winner with more centuries than Yousuf, Miandad and Inzamam combined, has played multiple knocks which us fans of PCT would have called "innings of the century" if played by our boys and has completely revolutionised Indian cricket.

As much as I do like Babar he is not even close to replicating the feats pulled off by Kohli. Yes he has played some good innings under pressure however he has done nothing in comparison to some of Kohli's greatest feats.

Honestly it's just pathetic that we have to create a thread trying to uplift Babar's batting by diminishing all the great things Kohli has done.

And to answer the question of the thread: Babar scored an 80 not out and 100 against Zimbabwe, this would have inflated his stats big time. I think that tells you everything that needs to be known
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Our fans cannot digest the fact that Indian cricket has left Pakistan cricket in its dust. They cannot accept the reality that Pakistan does not have the capacity to produce players that can compete with their Indian counterparts.

The Indians are in a different league in terms of talent, skill and mentality.

As a result, we keep making embarrassing comparisons to delude ourselves and make ourselves feel better. There is nothing more to it.

You won’t see Indians compare their players to Pakistan’s because they know there is no comparison.
 
Time to rub in on Babar's failure.

Babar is a poor man's Kohli.
 
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Once Pakistan plays the top 4 more often, this will be easier to decide but as long as Babar keeps playing lower tier opposition and scoring big we'll never know how good he really is. Simple as that.
 
On a serious note, posters here are harsh on Babar. He won them the first ODI match in away conditions against a good pace bowling attack.

He doesn't have to win them matches everytime. No player will win them matches everytime whether it is Viv, Kohli, Tendulkar or anyone else.
 
MesonK said:
BA has destroyed Kohli in last 2 years going by filtered stats not opinions

If Kohli ends his test career the way he has been playing in last 2 years then his legacy will be tarnished. he will be remembered as a Tier 2 great who failed in big tourneys KO games and was never exceptionally great in tests cricket.
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So have Rohit Sharma, Labuschange, Pant. Whats your point? That Kohli is in a slump? During Sachin's slump, even Zim batsmen were destroying him. So again, what is the point?
 
TheNightWatchman said:
I agree obviously. Don't think there has ever been a more clutch player at any point in international cricket. Comparing the best chaser of all time to Babar is out of the question.
Like he'll play good in the 2nd innings but he won't be able to finish it similar to tendulkar
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Tendulkar was an ODI opener. Not a SINGLE opener in history finishes matches except on 1 or 2 rare occasions. Hayden didnt, Gilchrist didnt.
 
Mamoon said:
He hasn’t been but what he did from 2012 to 2016 is more than enough for him to be recognized as the GOAT chaser even 50 years from now.

It is highly unlikely that we will ever see a better chaser than him. Peak Kohli was Tendulkar + Dhoni rolled into one.

He is the only top-order player who is also a lethal finisher.
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This thread was about last 2 years.

So talking about 12/16 means nothing here

Being better over the last two years doesn't mean that much, it was more to show your bias against pakistanis rather than anything else.

You and Hasan123 are the only two who couldn't see that he is way ahead in this period.

Overall, both should not be compared for the moment. Actually, overall, Babar is so far behind all the fab 4 and should not be compared to them.
 
Mobashir said:
This thread was about last 2 years.

So talking about 12/16 means nothing here

Being better over the last two years doesn't mean that much, it was more to show your bias against pakistanis rather than anything else.

You and Hasan123 are the only two who couldn't see that he is way ahead in this period.

Overall, both should not be compared for the moment. Actually, overall, Babar is so far behind all the fab 4 and should not be compared to them.
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Do not be afraid to stand up the bullies. Your last sentence is pointless...Babar has only played a fraction of the time Kohli and SMith have and less than Root and Kane.

If you compared almost all those guys to Babar's current phase of his career, he would be likely ahead of all of them.

We can only compare overall careers when all careers are finished. The fab four will finish many years before Babar in most cases. Don't be afraid to state this. I as an Indian am happy to state this fr you.
 
TheNightWatchman said:
Or maybe the fact is that they're 1 and 2 on the ODI rank list and one might take over the other so their abilities might be compared . Calm down. It's a harmless discussion
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I don't understand this logic. What is the point in creating a thread comparing a batsman who is for the record extremely talented and skill-full but is yet to achieve many important feats in his career to a batsman that has played multiple knocks that most good and even great players have failed to come close to replicating, a batsman that has changed the culture of crickets largest market.

It's just silly that we fans continue to compare our players to that of India. Even if Babar has out performed Kohli in the last 2 years. what is the point in comparing these two players? We should just enjoy watching Babar bat and be happy that for once we have someone that can score runs consistently and perform against strong opposition.

If anything threads like these are negative for us fans as it distracts us from thinking more harshly and critically of our players. Critically like the fact that Babar is yet to score a match winning hundred in the pursuit of 300. He had a gold chance to do this today btw
 
Indiafan said:
Tendulkar was an ODI opener. Not a SINGLE opener in history finishes matches except on 1 or 2 rare occasions. Hayden didnt, Gilchrist didnt.
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Babar might as well be an opener. Have you seen when he comes out to bat lol. He doesn't have the luxury of a Rohit Sharma, KL rahul, Dhawan. But even when Sachin was batting lower down later in his career he couldn't do it.
 
Mamoon said:
Babar cannot chase a 300+ total to save his life (he even failed to get his team over the line vs Zimbabwe) and yet our fans have the audacity to compare him to Kohli.

This last 2 years nonsense means nothing. Stop disrespecting a legend just because he hasn’t been at his best over the last 2 years.

He still has plenty left in the tank and even if he retires today, Babar will never be able to surpass him.

And those who do bhangra over comparing Babar and Kohli at 26, Kohli was already a GOAT chaser when he was 26.

Babar clearly does not have that match-winning ability that Kohli does or had at 26.

He is an Amla type ODI player. Kohli is in a different league altogether.
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Bang on!

I've always maintained that Babar is overrated, especially among Pakistan fans.

He's never been able to impose his presence like the way Kohli and Rohit are able too.

I don't ever remember Babar playing a match winning knock in a 300+ run chase.

At least Tendulkar in the 90s could play the knocks that were needed by his team but he was let down by the rest of the batting line-up. This isn't quite the case with Babar.
 
topspin said:
Bang on!

I've always maintained that Babar is overrated, especially among Pakistan fans.

He's never been able to impose his presence like the way Kohli and Rohit are able too.

I don't ever remember Babar playing a match winning knock in a 300+ run chase.

At least Tendulkar in the 90s could play the knocks that were needed by his team but he was let down by the rest of the batting line-up. This isn't quite the case with Babar.
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Yes, he certainly did not impose himself against NZ in a must win world cup game....
 
The irony when Pakistan fans taunt Kohli by saying "Kohli Nahi Hota Tujhse Chase" :))
 
Fact is "Babar can never Kohli whether people accept or not." Babar has neither that much talent/skill/patience to be a great player. He is the best among Pakistan team but all top 4 teams have at least 2-3 more impact players than Babar.
 
It looks like the comprehension ability of the posters here has gone down the drain. Babar is objectively the best batsman in the world in the timespan that OP mentioned. No one is claiming that he is a better batsman than Kohli or that he is a better chaser. It doesn't matter what Kohli did when he was 26 or what he did in Australia years ago, the fact of the matter is that he hasn't been on Babar's level in recent times.
 
topspin said:
I'm talking about 300+ chases. Remind me when did Babar make a match winning contribution?
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Where 300 plus had become par scores nowadays, he didn't have single century while chasing 300+..Lack of centuries in SENA countries...let babar achieve some great stuff before start comparing.
 
Bilal7 said:
It looks like the comprehension ability of the posters here has gone down the drain. Babar is objectively the best batsman in the world in the timespan that OP mentioned. No one is claiming that he is a better batsman than Kohli or that he is a better chaser. It doesn't matter what Kohli did when he was 26 or what he did in Australia years ago, the fact of the matter is that he hasn't been on Babar's level in recent times.
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And people are adding context to that. Without contrxt rohit sharma would be Bradman in tests if he only played in the subcontinent

Objectively you will take into accounts things like situations opposition before declaring someone best in the world
 
Kohli himself is not capable of playing like how he did few years back. At this point both are stats boosting accumulators, no where close to the kind of batsmen we need in LOIs
 
Mamoon said:
Dhawan is one of the best ODI openers to ever come out of Asia. He is a brilliant player in this particular format and he will not be discarded for Babar.

Babar has outperformed them not because he is a better batsman but because of the circumstances that I have already covered.

However, I would refrain from putting Pant in this list because in spite of limited opportunities, he has done more in Australia and England in three tours than what Babar might struggle to surpass over his entire career.

Playing for a weaker team is not a disadvantage for a quality batsman. You have no pressure to keep your place in the side and you have no pressure to change your playing style and your tempo.

Babar is in a dream situation right now and can accumulate as many runs as he wants without worrying about other factors.

He is like Tendulkar (inferior version) of the early to mid 90’s when he was part of a mediocre Indian team.

The level of job security that he enjoys is not extended to young Indian batsmen.

In India, Babar would not have played more ODIs than what KL Rahul has managed in his career so far because he cannot displace anyone in the top 3 and his tempo and style is not suited for number 4 and below.

Babar is a quality player but he has also lucked out on playing for a team with almost no batting talent and where he is the top guy almost by default.

Even within Pakistan, things would have been very different for Babar if he was playing in the era of Inzamam and Yousuf.
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Playing for a weak side is certainly disadvantageous because all the run-scoring pressure is on your shoulders. The opposition team targets and attacks you from the get go and their bowlers watch more footage on you than any of your teammates. You also have to do it all yourself, which means trying to bat through the innings on most occasions. We saw this in the last ODI, where Babar did the bulk of the runscoring but his team almost lost the match from a position where they really should not have struggled.

Babar has made himself undroppable due to his performances, it has nothing to do with anyone else. He walks into any international team in any format.

There is not need to get sentimental over Dhawan. He's on his last legs anyways and the fact that no Indian batsman is good enough to dislodge him says more about them than it does about Dhawan. If Babar were Indian, he would be opening or batting at #3 in both LOI formats and taken Rahane's spot in test cricket.
 
Mobashir said:
ODI's :
Virat Kohli :
innings 26
average 56.25
SR : 94.91
hundreds/fifties : 2/13

Babar Azam :
innings 19
average 71.12
SR : 96.14
hundreds/fifties : 5/6
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Just curious, if we remove Zimbabwe and other minnows that Kohli skips games against, what does Babar's average fall down to?
 
mastimasti said:
Do not be afraid to stand up the bullies. Your last sentence is pointless...Babar has only played a fraction of the time Kohli and SMith have and less than Root and Kane.

If you compared almost all those guys to Babar's current phase of his career, he would be likely ahead of all of them.

We can only compare overall careers when all careers are finished. The fab four will finish many years before Babar in most cases. Don't be afraid to state this. I as an Indian am happy to state this fr you.
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I didn't pointed out but that was what I meant, because they haven't played the same amount of cricket.
 
Indiafan said:
And people are adding context to that. Without contrxt rohit sharma would be Bradman in tests if he only played in the subcontinent

Objectively you will take into accounts things like situations opposition before declaring someone best in the world
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Regardless of situations and opposition, Babar is the best in the world.

Test cricket:

Average of 66+ with four hundreds and five fifties, in ten matches.

Australia: Average of 50+
England: Average just a shade below 50.
Pakistan: Average of 88+

ODIs:

Average of 69 with five hundreds and six fifties in 20 matches.

Vs England: Average of 55+ at a SR of around 100.
Vs South Africa: Average of nearly 70 at a SR of 90+.
Vs Australia: Scored a 30 in the only match he played.
Vs New Zealand: Scored a fantastic hundred in the only match played.

In T20 cricket, he's had some weak performances recently but those have come against Sri Lanka at home. He's done very well against both England and Australia.
 
topspin said:
I'm talking about 300+ chases. Remind me when did Babar make a match winning contribution?
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Like I said, he didn't score a world cup century against eventual finalists....and I am happy you guys keep changing the goal posts :)
 
Mesozoic said:
Calling a guy with a grand total of one Test match hundred away from home "the best in the world".... :)))

If this same thing was done to an Indian batsman, PP would have crashed by now...
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Thats the best pakistan has. So they will hype him.
 
mastimasti said:
How? Babar scoring runs means Pakistan win games. I would also stake my claim to Babar in the 2019 world cup as far more impactful than Kohli in any world cup for India.
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You guys keep on hyping him over the moon for his 140 ball century in WC. Just imagine had he scored 5 centuries in one world cup with 4 of them match winning like Rohit did! The world would have gone upside down.
 
Going off topic but a better comparison would be comparing team indias performance against South Africa in the ODI series of 2018.I think they won like 5-1 with kohli alone scoring 600 runs and was a completely one sided affair with saffers being made to look like a club side.
But here babar scores one century and looses his wicket making a mountain out of a molehill score and yet we consider him better than kohli based on stats 👏👏👏👏👏
 
Bilal7 said:
Regardless of situations and opposition, Babar is the best in the world.

Test cricket:

Average of 66+ with four hundreds and five fifties, in ten matches.

Australia: Average of 50+
England: Average just a shade below 50.
Pakistan: Average of 88+

ODIs:

Average of 69 with five hundreds and six fifties in 20 matches.

Vs England: Average of 55+ at a SR of around 100.
Vs South Africa: Average of nearly 70 at a SR of 90+.
Vs Australia: Scored a 30 in the only match he played.
Vs New Zealand: Scored a fantastic hundred in the only match played.

In T20 cricket, he's had some weak performances recently but those have come against Sri Lanka at home. He's done very well against both England and Australia.
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Did you win in Australia and England?No hut we did but such is the state of affairs in Pakistan that individual scores count more than the team winning games like they did in the 80s under Imran Khan
 
no doubt Babar is leading kohli for last 1 month and 6 months too. Create a thread for that too!!
 
Mobashir said:
This thread was about last 2 years.

So talking about 12/16 means nothing here

Being better over the last two years doesn't mean that much, it was more to show your bias against pakistanis rather than anything else.

You and Hasan123 are the only two who couldn't see that he is way ahead in this period.

Overall, both should not be compared for the moment. Actually, overall, Babar is so far behind all the fab 4 and should not be compared to them.
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Yes Babar has better stats in the last 2 years and has been in better form. But your comprehension skills are lacking. I am clearly saying Kohli is the better overall player and Babar won’t surpass him. You actually believe Babar is better than Kohli. You can’t see beyond your hate for Indian players. That’s why I don’t take your views seriously when it comes to Indian players.

You didn’t make this thread to say Babar is better in the last 2 years. Your trying to say Babar is better overall in your opinion.
 
Mamoon said:
Just because Kohli hasn’t reached the standards (that only he can reach) over the last 2 years, it doesn’t mean you walk around and compare him to someone like Babar who is no doubt a quality batsmen but does not even have a 1% chance of having a greater legacy than Kohli.
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”Not even a 1% chance of having a greater legacy that Kohli”.

That’s a stretch, not even 1%?
It’s not like Kohli has won much as a captain despite having the strongest team for the last 5 years in international cricket. In all honesty, Virat doesn’t even have a great legacy as of yet and the last 2 years of his cricketing career and poor performances has done him no favours.

You act like Kohli has already created a legacy that is near impossible to replicate or even surpass.
 
The lone Ranger said:
You guys keep on hyping him over the moon for his 140 ball century in WC. Just imagine had he scored 5 centuries in one world cup with 4 of them match winning like Rohit did! The world would have gone upside down.
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I think Rohit was the better batsman in the tournament, he is one of my faves actually. But what does that have to do with Babar v Kohli over the last 24 months?
 
Getting runs is the first step.

Next step is to get meaningful runs. Knocks against strong opponents. Knocks that create memories, define your legacy.

Next is to ruthlessly take games away from teams. Boss the best teams.

Finally build a team that wins. Kohli is going to hold the test mace for the 5th ICC annual ceremony in a row.

Then you become a King like Kohli!

Babar is at step 2 now. He’s bossed step 1. He’s still relatively young and plays for Pakistan so can play till 42-43. Imo he can do it.
 
AdamM97 said:
”Not even a 1% chance of having a greater legacy that Kohli”.

That’s a stretch, not even 1%?
It’s not like Kohli has won much as a captain despite having the strongest team for the last 5 years in international cricket. In all honesty, Virat doesn’t even have a great legacy as of yet and the last 2 years of his cricketing career and poor performances has done him no favours.

You act like Kohli has already created a legacy that is near impossible to replicate or even surpass.
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I did not factor in captaincy because if I do that, the chances of Babar surpassing Kohli’s legacy will drop from 1% to 0%.

Kohli has not won a trophy as captain in LOIs, but he is the most successful Asian Test captain of all time with 36 wins in counting.

His team spent more time at the top of the Test rankings than any Asian team in in history and his team spent more time at the top of the rankings than any team in the 2010-2020 decade. Babar will never come close to those achievements as captain.

As far as legacy as individual player is concerned, even if Kohli retires today, he will be remembered for generations because he is easily one of the greatest in history and also one of the iconic superstars the game has ever seen.

He has defined an era and the 2010s will always be remembered as the Kohli era. No batsman has dominated all three formats the way he has.

He has also completely redefined the art of chasing in white ball cricket.

So yes, it is impossible for almost every young batsman out there to surpass his legacy including for Babar who only has 1 Test hundred outside Asia by the age of 26.

Babar at best can hope to be a poor man’s Kohli, but for that to happen, he will first need to help Pakistan chase down 300+ totals which he has not been able to do even once.

Kohli will retire with the most ODI hundreds in history, probably the second most runs in international cricket after Tendulkar, 35+ Test hundreds, most Test hundreds outside Asia by an Asian, most Test hundreds in Australia by an Asian, most ODI hundreds while chasing, most runs and hundreds in international cricket as captain. Moreover, he will probably end up with 90+ international hundreds overall.

So yes, Babar simply has no chance of surpassing his legacy. He is clearly inferior in so many ways.

He doesn’t have Kohli’s ability, mentality, aura, crease presence, personality etc. which have all combined to help Kohli become the giant that he is today.

Kohli has the same characteristics that Cristiano Ronaldo, Muhammad Ali, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan etc. have/had in their respective fields. He is a true icon and the face of modern cricket.

His greatness cannot be captured in mere numbers. There was something about peak Kohli that no one else had. He was by far the most prized wicket in the world for a long time and he still is, in spite of not reaching his own standards in the last 2 years.

Nevertheless, Babar doesn’t have to get anywhere near Kohli to have a glittering career. You can be nothing like Kohli and still end up as a great player, because there are great players and then there greats among the greats, and Kohli belongs in the latter.

Babar can perhaps end up as the best Pakistani batsman ever, and the best Pakistani batsman ever, whoever he is today - Miandad or Inzamam or Younis - is nowhere near Kohli.
 
mystical man said:
Did you win in Australia and England?No hut we did but such is the state of affairs in Pakistan that individual scores count more than the team winning games like they did in the 80s under Imran Khan
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 
Is it true that Babar has never guided a chase of 300 plus total?
 
AMSS said:
Is it true that Babar has never guided a chase of 300 plus total?
Click to expand...

Yes it is true. He got close against Zimbabwe recently but got out at a crucial time and Pakistan lost the super over.
 
Mamoon said:
Nevertheless, Babar doesn’t have to get anywhere near Kohli to have a glittering career. You can be nothing like Kohli and still end up as a great player, because there are great players and then there greats among the greats, and Kohli belongs in the latter.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
Hasan123 said:
Yes Babar has better stats in the last 2 years and has been in better form. But your comprehension skills are lacking. I am clearly saying Kohli is the better overall player and Babar won’t surpass him. You actually believe Babar is better than Kohli. You can’t see beyond your hate for Indian players. That’s why I don’t take your views seriously when it comes to Indian players.

You didn’t make this thread to say Babar is better in the last 2 years. Your trying to say Babar is better overall in your opinion.
Click to expand...

Thanks and that leaves Mamoon being the only one in denial.

The rest of your post is very interesting but not related to the thread, but just in case that can help you, read again the post you have quoted and you will see you are wrong is asuming that I think Babar better than Virat overall.
 
AMSS said:
Is it true that Babar has never guided a chase of 300 plus total?
Click to expand...

No. He will get there though. Lot of factors have to work in your favor to do that. Your team must concede 300+ which admittedly Pakistan is more than capable of doing, but you need a bit of support from other batsmen too. Rarely has a batsman chased down 300+ without getting some support..

Even Kohli had chased 300+ only on 5 occasions by the time he was Babar's age.
 
Mobashir said:
So in a discussion from another thread where a poster think that Virat is above Babar over the past few years.

So lets compare them over the past 2 years.

Tests :

Virat Kohli :
14 matches, 22 innings
average 43.85
hundreds/fifties : 2/5

Babar Azam :
10 matches, 17 innings
average 66.57
hundreds/fifties : 4/5


ODI's :
Virat Kohli :
innings 26
average 56.25
SR : 94.91
hundreds/fifties : 2/13

Babar Azam :
innings 19
average 71.12
SR : 96.14
hundreds/fifties : 5/6


T20's :
Virat Kohli :
innings 22
average 59.73
SR : 143
hundreds/fifties : 0/8

Babar Azam :
innings 16
average 39.14
SR : 136
hundreds/fifties : 0/7
Click to expand...

topspin said:
[MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION]

You can't just post numbers without revealing the opposition sides. You take us for fools, but the reality is not all of us are stupid enough to accept stats (without any context) at face value.

So if you can be kind enough, provide a breakdown of these milestones by opposition. If you can't do that, your claims are just worthless.
Click to expand...

To answer the question about the opposition, taking only games played against the top 4 teams (Eng, Aus, SA and NZ) we have:

Tests:

Kohi 10 Tests 43.2 Avg
Babar 7 Tests, 43.9 Avg

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

ODIs:

Kohli 16 games 45.4 Avg @ S/R 90
Babar 11 games 67.4 Avg @ S/R 94

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

T20Is:

Kohli 14 games 55.1 @ S/R 138.4
Babar 10 games 38.3 @ S/5 137.9

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

So, against top opposition over the last 2 years, Kohli and Babar tied in Tests, Babar ahead in ODIs, and Kohli ahead in T20Is.
 
Mobashir said:

The rest of your post is very interesting but not related to the thread, but just in case that can help you, read again the post you have quoted and you will see you are wrong is asuming that I think Babar better than Virat overall.
Click to expand...

I think it is related to the thread. Your OP left out all the context from the case you are trying to make and [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] and others have helpfully provided it in their posts. Don't see what you are complaining about here.
 
BreadPakoda said:
Well said.
Click to expand...

Babar has to go long way even to be consider great player let alone great among great. He is softie like his cousin and perform well when nothing to loose.
Even the inning of Fakhar yesterday, Babar can never go that stage. He doesn't have range of big score plus he cannot cope with any pressure with any quality bowler.
 
mastimasti said:
I think Rohit was the better batsman in the tournament, he is one of my faves actually. But what does that have to do with Babar v Kohli over the last 24 months?
Click to expand...

I brought him into the discussion to make a point that scoring a hundred (off 140 deliveries) in WC is not a big deal as there are players out there who has got 5 centuries ( 4 of match winning) in one Worldcup and yet made no fuzz or hype.
While You guys keep on talking about that one wc hundred for eternity. would rather have a 60 ball 80 over a 140 ball hundred.
 
Mamoon said:
I did not factor in captaincy because if I do that, the chances of Babar surpassing Kohli’s legacy will drop from 1% to 0%.

Kohli has not won a trophy as captain in LOIs, but he is the most successful Asian Test captain of all time with 36 wins in counting.

His team spent more time at the top of the Test rankings than any Asian team in in history and his team spent more time at the top of the rankings than any team in the 2010-2020 decade. Babar will never come close to those achievements as captain.

As far as legacy as individual player is concerned, even if Kohli retires today, he will be remembered for generations because he is easily one of the greatest in history and also one of the iconic superstars the game has ever seen.

He has defined an era and the 2010s will always be remembered as the Kohli era. No batsman has dominated all three formats the way he has.

He has also completely redefined the art of chasing in white ball cricket.

So yes, it is impossible for almost every young batsman out there to surpass his legacy including for Babar who only has 1 Test hundred outside Asia by the age of 26.

Babar at best can hope to be a poor man’s Kohli, but for that to happen, he will first need to help Pakistan chase down 300+ totals which he has not been able to do even once.

Kohli will retire with the most ODI hundreds in history, probably the second most runs in international cricket after Tendulkar, 35+ Test hundreds, most Test hundreds outside Asia by an Asian, most Test hundreds in Australia by an Asian, most ODI hundreds while chasing, most runs and hundreds in international cricket as captain. Moreover, he will probably end up with 90+ international hundreds overall.

So yes, Babar simply has no chance of surpassing his legacy. He is clearly inferior in so many ways.

He doesn’t have Kohli’s ability, mentality, aura, crease presence, personality etc. which have all combined to help Kohli become the giant that he is today.

Kohli has the same characteristics that Cristiano Ronaldo, Muhammad Ali, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan etc. have/had in their respective fields. He is a true icon and the face of modern cricket.

His greatness cannot be captured in mere numbers. There was something about peak Kohli that no one else had. He was by far the most prized wicket in the world for a long time and he still is, in spite of not reaching his own standards in the last 2 years.

Nevertheless, Babar doesn’t have to get anywhere near Kohli to have a glittering career. You can be nothing like Kohli and still end up as a great player, because there are great players and then there greats among the greats, and Kohli belongs in the latter.

Babar can perhaps end up as the best Pakistani batsman ever, and the best Pakistani batsman ever, whoever he is today - Miandad or Inzamam or Younis - is nowhere near Kohli.
Click to expand...

The test series victory in Australia is the only noteworthy thing Kohli has achieved as a captain. As for individual performances, Kohli has been average for the last 2 years. Sure, Babar is still far behind Kohli at the moment but to call it impossible for Babar to surpass Kohli has to be a joke. Much of Kohli's reputation is heavily relient on the fact that he was phenomenal between 2014-2018. Babar has to still do A LOT to even get close to Kohli but it's not impossible. I'd even argue that it is very much possible if Babar manages to keep up with his form for a long period of time.

I just can't see why Babar can't achieve whatever Kohli has achieved.
 
AdamM97 said:
The test series victory in Australia is the only noteworthy thing Kohli has achieved as a captain. As for individual performances, Kohli has been average for the last 2 years. Sure, Babar is still far behind Kohli at the moment but to call it impossible for Babar to surpass Kohli has to be a joke. Much of Kohli's reputation is heavily relient on the fact that he was phenomenal between 2014-2018. Babar has to still do A LOT to even get close to Kohli but it's not impossible. I'd even argue that it is very much possible if Babar manages to keep up with his form for a long period of time.

I just can't see why Babar can't achieve whatever Kohli has achieved.
Click to expand...

Sure, winning 36 Tests as captain and not losing a home series in 6 years and counting are not noteworthy achievements. Babar is going to breeze past these records without breaking a sweat.

If you think Babar is on his way to surpassing or even matching Kohli as batsmen, I don’t think I or anyone can help you overcome your delusions.

I don’t have anything to add to my previous post regarding Kohli’s achievements as a batsman.
 
Babar needs a big tournament or series. Becoming the leading runscorer in the upcoming t20 world cup ahead of kohli would seal the deal that he is not just all hype.
 
As far as I am concerned, Babar didn't do it in a big chase yesterday. He needs to step up and also be there till the end - consistently.

Kohli is also not performing consistently, even if he is conjuring up some good innings sporadically. He has some big tests coming up where he needs to deliver, or he will heavily impact his legacy negatively. Simple as that.

Forks in the road for both.
 
Mobashir said:
So in a discussion from another thread where a poster think that Virat is above Babar over the past few years.

So lets compare them over the past 2 years.

Test average difference of 23, ODI average difference of 16, 2 times more hundreds.
Everything is in Babar's favor.

There is really no other way to look at it apart if you are a hater.
Click to expand...

Napa said:
To answer the question about the opposition, taking only games played against the top 4 teams (Eng, Aus, SA and NZ) we have:
Click to expand...

Adding Rohit to the comparison against top teams and also including India-Pakistan LOIs we have:

Tests:

Kohi 10 Tests 43.2 Avg
Babar 7 Tests, 43.9 Avg
Rohit 9 Tests 71.64 Avg


https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting


ODIs:

Kohli 17 games 47.3 Avg @ S/R 92.0
Babar 12 games 65.6 Avg @ S/R 93.4
Rohit 11 games 68.3 Avg @ S/R 93.4

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

T20Is:

Kohli 14 games 55.1 @ S/R 138.4
Babar 10 games 38.3 @ S/R 137.8
Rohit 9 games 31.5 @ S/R 143.2

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

So, against top opposition over the last 2 years, Rohit has been ahead of both Kohli and Babar in the two top categories, far ahead of both in Tests and marginally ahead of Babar in ODIs. Is therefore Rohit better than Kohli? I think Rohit will be an ATG, but Kohli should still be considered marginally better at this point of time. These comparisons are obviously very sensitive to the time period chosen.

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=146594]BreadPakoda[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
 
Napa said:
Adding Rohit to the comparison against top teams and also including India-Pakistan LOIs we have:

Tests:

Kohi 10 Tests 43.2 Avg
Babar 7 Tests, 43.9 Avg
Rohit 9 Tests 71.64 Avg


https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting


ODIs:

Kohli 17 games 47.3 Avg @ S/R 92.0
Babar 12 games 65.6 Avg @ S/R 93.4
Rohit 11 games 68.3 Avg @ S/R 93.4

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

T20Is:

Kohli 14 games 55.1 @ S/R 138.4
Babar 10 games 38.3 @ S/R 137.8
Rohit 9 games 31.5 @ S/R 143.2

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

So, against top opposition over the last 2 years, Rohit has been ahead of both Kohli and Babar in the two top categories, far ahead of both in Tests and marginally ahead of Babar in ODIs. Is therefore Rohit better than Kohli? I think Rohit will be an ATG, but Kohli should still be considered marginally better at this point of time. These comparisons are obviously very sensitive to the time period chosen.

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=146594]BreadPakoda[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

Thanks for going a little further into stats. Great work.
I wanted this to remain a comparaison between Babar and Kohli and not go into many directions. So I will prefer another thread for Rohit vs Babar.

I am completely shocked by Kohli's Test stats over the last 2 years against top sides. By taking out one innings, his 254 not out against SA, his average drops to 25 in the remaining 9 tests. That's shocking and minnow level batting.
 
Napa said:
Adding Rohit to the comparison against top teams and also including India-Pakistan LOIs we have:

Tests:

Kohi 10 Tests 43.2 Avg
Babar 7 Tests, 43.9 Avg
Rohit 9 Tests 71.64 Avg


https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting


ODIs:

Kohli 17 games 47.3 Avg @ S/R 92.0
Babar 12 games 65.6 Avg @ S/R 93.4
Rohit 11 games 68.3 Avg @ S/R 93.4

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

T20Is:

Kohli 14 games 55.1 @ S/R 138.4
Babar 10 games 38.3 @ S/R 137.8
Rohit 9 games 31.5 @ S/R 143.2

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...9;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

So, against top opposition over the last 2 years, Rohit has been ahead of both Kohli and Babar in the two top categories, far ahead of both in Tests and marginally ahead of Babar in ODIs. Is therefore Rohit better than Kohli? I think Rohit will be an ATG, but Kohli should still be considered marginally better at this point of time. These comparisons are obviously very sensitive to the time period chosen.

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=146594]BreadPakoda[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
Click to expand...


Rohit is a brilliant batsmen, he has outperformed Kohli in the last couple of years. But I would say Kohli is still better overall.
 
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