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The best left-arm pacers of this era: Mohammed Amir, Mitchell Starc and Joel Paris?

Convict said:
Huh?
He's been a great limited overs bowler for years
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Great? Before the world cup starc wasn't rated very highly by the general public (maybe the people following the aussie cricket closely might have rated him), I always considered him just another aussie pacer who gets trashed and smacked around in IPL, so yeah it is kind of a resurgence, since the world cup I have started to see what a beast starc is in odis, his stock has risen this past year only (at least in the eyes of the subcontinental crowd)
 
aamir and paris lol. let's wait until they play a few games first.
 
Why do we people do this? Pakistanis have a characteristic trait that is common to all of them. We associate fantasies and mythologies to normal human beings, to make them seem superhuman and invincible. This is a clear case of idol worship, and fixation of hopes and dreams on human being. Whether its Raheel Sharif, or Mohammad Amir.

The boy has not played in 5 years is already the best of his era. Please give him a break!!! Its like Harry Potter and the come back from 5 year ban. Its gotten way out of hand now..
 
waleed88 said:
Why do we people do this? Pakistanis have a characteristic trait that is common to all of them. We associate fantasies and mythologies to normal human beings, to make them seem superhuman and invincible. This is a clear case of idol worship, and fixation of hopes and dreams on human being. Whether its Raheel Sharif, or Mohammad Amir.

The boy has not played in 5 years is already the best of his era. Please give him a break!!! Its like Harry Potter and the come back from 5 year ban. Its gotten way out of hand now..
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Exactly. Delusional.
 
Barragan said:
He has played 25 matches and the majority have been in Aus and Eng, but still averaging around 31.

Pure mediocrity.
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We all complain about Australia producing flat pitches but when it comes to their bowlers, we say they have it easy because they play in Australia?
 
Bullet Drive said:
Hahaha.

Amir will NEVER EVER pass Mitchell Starc, like ever.

He is close to Boult, and Boult is slightly better.
Click to expand...

Either you have not seen Aamir in 2010 or you do not know his potential. If this guy gets it right he'll really do well.

I am not saying that he'll become a legend like bowler, but he can for sure do better than inconsistent bowlers like Starc.

I really like Australian cricket and I admire Starc as I have watched him a lot, but he needs to be more consistent in Test cricket to be in a different league.
 
Silly to consider someone who hasn't even played a game of international cricket and very few domestic games among the best left arm pacers in Australia let alone of the era.

What makes this thread even worse is it comes with the ignoring of Trent Boult, who is arguably the best left arm bowler in the world right now (despite a poor series in Aus, in which he still managed to get a 5fer).
 
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Aman said:
Silly to consider someone who hasn't even played a game of international cricket and very few domestic games among the best left arm pacers in Australia let alone of the era.

What makes this thread even worse is it comes with the ignoring of Trent Boult, who is arguably the best left arm bowler in the world right now (despite a poor series in Aus, in which he still managed to get a 5fer).
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...

I just found out Boult is a left handed bowler... w-what the hell.

Have watched him in UAE yet still at the back of my mind he was a right hander :facepalm:
 
Boult is better than all 3 by a mile (if we assume Amir after 5 years isn't as good as he was before). Although Starc is improving so he might get there.
 
The best left arm pacers of this era: Amir, Starc and Paris?

Sachin136 said:
Boult is better than all 3 by a mile (if we assume Amir after 5 years isn't as good as he was before). Although Starc is improving so he might get there.
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Boult is nowhere close to Starc in LOI.
 
Aman said:
Silly to consider someone who hasn't even played a game of international cricket and very few domestic games among the best left arm pacers in Australia let alone of the era.

What makes this thread even worse is it comes with the ignoring of Trent Boult, who is arguably the best left arm bowler in the world right now (despite a poor series in Aus, in which he still managed to get a 5fer).
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That's exactly why its funny when people say that Starc is the best left armer in the game currently while Boult has proved himself in every format and in different playing conditions.

I like both of them but in general Boult is ahead with Starc having an edge in ODI's only. Aamir has the potential to topple these two, but for that he needs to play again.
 
I think Paris is a nice prospect he can swing the ball and has inswinger also.I think he only played 2 fc matches and some listA so he should not be compare with other 2.starc is in different league when it comes to odis .amir should play some international matches before compares with starc
 
Mamoon said:
It is delusional to think that Amir would have been miles ahead of what Starc is today, if he wasn't banned. Yes he was better than him at 18, but players don't improve exponentially - prodigies hit their top level early and then it is all about maintaining that level; otherwise every young talented player will be at a legendary level by the times he's 30.

Starc has peaked in ODIs and his peak is as good (if not better) as any bowler to have played this format. Similarly, the way Amir bowled in England in 2010 was the zenith of fast bowling in helpful conditions. It doesn't get better than that.

Amir has the edge over Starc in Tests but the latter is finding his feet in this format. In ODIs, Amir will struggle big time to match his ODI impact.

Overall Starc is better than Amir, don't let his fans delude you. That of course doesn't mean that Amir isn't fantastic - honestly this is a great era for left-arm pacers - we have three pacers who can become legends of the game - Starc, Boult and Amir.

Of course we haven't seen enough of the likes of Joel Paris yet, but none of the others come close to this trio.
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AMir isn't even playing so far...

But Amir's bowling in 2010 was superior to Starc in 2015.
Starc is a fantastic bowler and is not getting any better than in 2015. Will maybe give better results in test cricket, but not that much.
Amir will also not be better than what he was in 2010, I will even say he will be lucky to be as good as he was bach then. But he gets back their then he will be better.

Amir 2010 > Starc 2015.
 
Sachin136 said:
We all complain about Australia producing flat pitches but when it comes to their bowlers, we say they have it easy because they play in Australia?
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He has done a wonderful job in ODI's on similar pitches.

In fact, you just have to compare the performances of both Hazlewood and Pattinson to him and you will notice, that both of them have done a much better job than him.

Also, he has played 76% of his matches in both Aus and Eng, with a break down of 44% in Aus and 32% in Eng.

No excuse for him to be hovering around the 31 mark.
 
Amir was never in the league of Starc, he did not have the consistency for being called Pacy,sometimes I have seen him bowl in the high 120s even with occasional balls around 145 which even Cheema has achieved sometimes,his age was the only thing which gave him the headline status,the op is too emotional regarding this,similarly paris is yet to prove himeslf too,right now there is no comparison within a country mile to that of Starc
 
Looks like Joes Paris is set to make his debut vs India [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]
 
in_cutter said:
Looks like Joes Paris is set to make his debut vs India [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]
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Look. Some start firing straight away like Amir. Some took some time like asif and Starc. I hope he does well but my thread should be judged after 6 months or an year.
 
Bullet Drive said:
Hahaha.

Amir will NEVER EVER pass Mitchell Starc, like ever.

He is close to Boult, and Boult is slightly better.
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Amir has a good 10 years ahead of him unless he involves himself in something fishy again. Judge him after a good few years back in cricket. He had set the world alight already and has a T20 WC under his belt.
 
Barragan said:
He has done a wonderful job in ODI's on similar pitches.

In fact, you just have to compare the performances of both Hazlewood and Pattinson to him and you will notice, that both of them have done a much better job than him.

Also, he has played 76% of his matches in both Aus and Eng, with a break down of 44% in Aus and 32% in Eng.

No excuse for him to be hovering around the 31 mark.
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England produced one of the highest scoring pitches recently. And in flat beds that were in 2015 World cup, he averaged <15 iirc.
 
Starc is the best ODI bowler in the world. However, keep in mind that he hasn't even played 50 ODIs yet. Amla averaged nearly 60 after his first 70 ODIs and in the test format, Hussey averaged higher than anyone, not named Bradman, after his first few matches. Neither was able to maintain those ridiculous standards as they played more games.

Starc has gotten off to a great start but he won't maintain this either. I see him ending his career with an ODI average of 22-24. Amir will do the same so they are very much in the same league.
 
Cricfan4eva said:
England produced one of the highest scoring pitches recently. And in flat beds that were in 2015 World cup, he averaged <15 iirc.
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What do you mean?

Not even a single game went into the 5th day and there was even a chance of some games being wrapped up within 2 days.

Also, what was the point of that WC stat? Did I question his ODI performances?
 
Barragan said:
What do you mean?

Not even a single game went into the 5th day and there was even a chance of some games being wrapped up within 2 days.

Also, what was the point of that WC stat? Did I question his ODI performances?
Click to expand...

My bad I thought you were talking about Starc's ODI performance.
 
Sachin136 said:
Boult is better than all 3 by a mile (if we assume Amir after 5 years isn't as good as he was before). Although Starc is improving so he might get there.
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only you guys would play the '5 years' card to hide your hate towards a Pakistani.
 
Boult is looking more like Junaid Khan these days. I hope both of them regain their form and become WC bowlers.
 
Paris, the best LA fastman of the era, even before making his debut. You must be the driver of PP hype machine.:murali
 
Bilal7 said:
Starc is the best ODI bowler in the world. However, keep in mind that he hasn't even played 50 ODIs yet. Amla averaged nearly 60 after his first 70 ODIs and in the test format, Hussey averaged higher than anyone, not named Bradman, after his first few matches. Neither was able to maintain those ridiculous standards as they played more games.

Starc has gotten off to a great start but he won't maintain this either. I see him ending his career with an ODI average of 22-24. Amir will do the same so they are very much in the same league.
Click to expand...

So Starc will not maintain his form but Amir will improve his...nice logic.
 
Bilal7 said:
Starc is the best ODI bowler in the world. However, keep in mind that he hasn't even played 50 ODIs yet. Amla averaged nearly 60 after his first 70 ODIs and in the test format, Hussey averaged higher than anyone, not named Bradman, after his first few matches. Neither was able to maintain those ridiculous standards as they played more games.

Starc has gotten off to a great start but he won't maintain this either. I see him ending his career with an ODI average of 22-24. Amir will do the same so they are very much in the same league.
Click to expand...

The greatest ODI bowler of all time (McGrath) averages 22. You make it seem like averaging 22-24 is an easy feat.
 
dandapinda said:
So Starc will not maintain his form but Amir will improve his...nice logic.
Click to expand...

Sachin136 said:
The greatest ODI bowler of all time (McGrath) averages 22. You make it seem like averaging 22-24 is an easy feat.
Click to expand...

The greatest ODI bowler of all time is Wasim.

What I'm saying is that ATG bowlers normally average in the 22-24 range and that is where Starc and Amir are likely to end up. One has just gotten off to a great but unsustainable start.
 
Literally the first delivery I saw from him was 131kph... That too with the Aussie speed guns..
 
Can someone give an honest analysis of how good paris is???
 
Madplayer said:
Can someone give an honest analysis of how good paris is???
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I only saw a handful of deliveries later on, so don't base your judgement on my posts. [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] can definitely provide you a much better insight.
 
So far Paris has been pretty ordinary on a flat wicket
 
Best LEft arm pacer ATM is Boult. Yes he is out of form but he is far ahead of Starc and Amir as a test bowler
 
Starc is better than amir overall. Starc will soon start taking bucketload of wickets in test matches as well.
 
I don't see how people are discounting Paris after one game.

You just look at his action, and see that the kid has potential.

It was a flat wicket, and his first game.

On swinging tracks, he could prove to be a nightmare if he gets it right.

I liked what I saw.

Again, Hazlewood proving a notch above all the other bowlers of Aussie team.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
I don't see how people are discounting Paris after one game.

You just look at his action, and see that the kid has potential.

It was a flat wicket, and his first game.

On swinging tracks, he could prove to be a nightmare if he gets it right.

I liked what I saw.

Again, Hazlewood proving a notch above all the other bowlers of Aussie team.
Click to expand...

In swinging conditions even bhuvi proves to be a nightmare, what's the big deal in that?
 
carrom_ball said:
In swinging conditions even bhuvi proves to be a nightmare, what's the big deal in that?
Click to expand...

If you want to judge a young kid, in his first game, on the flattest of tracks Perth has produced over many years to make a judgment that he is as good or bad as Bhuvi, then please do.

I just merely asked the wisdom in laying down blanket statements.

His action and control suggested that he is raw and has potential.

I don't see why you're so hurt about a potential young kid.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
If you want to judge a young kid, in his first game, on the flattest of tracks Perth has produced over many years to make a judgment that he is as good or bad as Bhuvi, then please do.

I just merely asked the wisdom in laying down blanket statements.

His action and control suggested that he is raw and has potential.

I don't see why you're so hurt about a potential young kid.
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Hurt? this is like my second comment in the thread, I didn't even question the potential of this kid, I am not even interested in him, I was just questioning your logic, if he proves to be a nightmare in swinging conditions that doesn't mean he is good, with his speed of 129ks he will be smashed around on most grounds like bhuvi
 
carrom_ball said:
Hurt? this is like my second comment in the thread, I didn't even question the potential of this kid, I am not even interested in him, I was just questioning your logic, if he proves to be a nightmare in swinging conditions that doesn't mean he is good, with his speed of 129ks he will be smashed around on most grounds like bhuvi
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Once again , Bhuvi's potential can be gauged after he got smashed around repeatedly.

How can you gauge someone's true potential in his first game on a flat track?

Or are you just pretending to be dumb?
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Once again , Bhuvi's potential can be gauged after he got smashed around repeatedly.

How can you gauge someone's true potential in his first game on a flat track?

Or are you just pretending to be dumb?
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What? I said I am not judging his potential, I am questioning your logic, have you seen my comments on this thread? or are you pretending to be dumb? :misbah
 
carrom_ball said:
What? I said I am not judging his potential, I am questioning your logic, have you seen my comments on this thread? or are you pretending to be dumb? :misbah
Click to expand...

My logic was "His action and ability to generate swing ,is potentially dangerous on swinging tracks and could be a nightmare".

He is a good prospect and looks a bit raw in control.

Now tell me what is wrong with my logic?
 
Dr_Bassim said:
If they get merged, you will find it in your notifications where it got merged.

If you make ridiculous threads like Joel Paris and try to be a smart sarcastic person, they probably end up in trash bin.

Don't expect anything less.
Click to expand...


See Amir and Paris heven't played a single match and look they are already the best left arm pacer!
hehe but that thread wasn't about J.Paris. It was about our pathetic nature that we are expecting so much from players who haven't even played a single match! You tell me is it right to rate someone this high at like the start of their career, what we did to umar akmal was that right? let them play for a while then start to praise them why make them ATG's when they haven't even played a single match, dont you think its pathetic by us?????
 
Dr_Bassim said:
My logic was "His action and ability to generate swing ,is potentially dangerous on swinging tracks and could be a nightmare".

He is a good prospect and looks a bit raw in control.

Now tell me what is wrong with my logic?
Click to expand...

You said this kid has potential because he can be dangerous in swinging conditions and I gave you the example of bhuvi who is also dangerous in swinging conditions and bowls at the same pace but still he is unsuccessful at international level. So success in swinging conditions doesn't mean he has potential to be successful at international cricket


Ahh anyway, leave it I can't go on and on in circles, I am not even interested in this thread, don't know why I even bothered to comment
 
Since we're throwing rookies into this discussion, how about Sran? He's been more successful so far.
 
axl100mph said:
You are only laughing at your own lack of foresight and knowledge my friend.

You will see the difference btw boult n amir over the next few years.

the latter will never lose form to the point of trundling at 125 kph


Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk
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First of all genius, Boult has come back from injury.

Secondly, Amirs career aside from series in England is far from anything to write on about, infact if you take matches away from England that average looks terrible with averages of over 40 everywhere.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling
 
[MENTION=138241]axl100mph[/MENTION] you're under the distinct impression that Amir is walking back international cricket like it was back in 2010, the game has changed plenty since then.

It's much more difficult to be a bowler nowadays with more flat wickets, bigger bats, more aggressive batting etc. and he's starting from zero again, his record from 2 series in England 2010 is irrelevant. Batsmen don't give a damn, if he misses his lines he's going.
 
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Starc will never be a good Test bowler. He will be decent at best. Although he is the best ODI bowler by some distance currently. In order to become an ODI great, he should perform consistently for some more years and should average under 23 after 100 or more matches.

I am not sure about Amir yet. NZ series will decide which way Amir will go. Although he is 'potentially' better than anyone in the world for sure.

I had seen Paris in the CPL in India. He looked good, could swing the ball but not much pacy. Didn't look 'the best' material to me though. Much like Boult. Didn't see him bowl today.
 
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The Last Of The Stars said:
Starc will never be a good Test bowler. He will be decent at best. Although he is the best ODI bowler by some distance currently. In order to become an ODI great, he should perform consistently for some more years and should average under 23 after 100 or more matches.

I am not sure about Amir yet. NZ series will decide which way Amir will go. Although he is 'potentially' better than anyone in the world for sure.

I had seen Paris in the CPL in India. He looked good, could swing the ball but not much pacy. Didn't look 'the best' material to me though. Much like Boult. Didn't see him bowl today.
Click to expand...
Starc is already an ODI great. How many bowlers could do what he did in 2015 WC? How many WC's did Wasim and Waqar win for Aus, that too on roads. The guy is an absolute beast in LOI's and a dead set ATG in LOI's, perhaps may even end up as the greatest ever ODI bowler if he continues this way.
 
Aman said:
First of all genius, Boult has come back from injury.

Secondly, Amirs career aside from series in England is far from anything to write on about, infact if you take matches away from England that average looks terrible with averages of over 40 everywhere.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling
Click to expand...
First of all, tell me what difference an injury makes?
The pain has healed, hasnt it?

The problem with his lack of pace is loss of rhythm which is due to having a bowling action that is first of all not biomechanically perfect and secondly isnt as subconsciously engrained as it should be.
Whatever pace he was generating was due to short term muscle memory that he had developed during his form period and contraction-exertion to bowl fast.

Right now, he is searching for that muscle memory and isnt getting it. This is where he is less talented than amir
as the latter will never have to worry about his action due to it being biomechanically perfect and more importantly subconsciously executed.








Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk
 
Aman said:
Starc is already an ODI great. How many bowlers could do what he did in 2015 WC? How many WC's did Wasim and Waqar win for Aus, that too on roads. The guy is an absolute beast in LOI's and a dead set ATG in LOI's, perhaps may even end up as the greatest ever ODI bowler if he continues this way.
Click to expand...

Yes he may end up as the best ever. But for that he has to maintain his record for some more years or say for more than 100 matches.
 
Aman said:
First of all genius, Boult has come back from injury.

Secondly, Amirs career aside from series in England is far from anything to write on about, infact if you take matches away from England that average looks terrible with averages of over 40 everywhere.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling
Click to expand...
Lol, once again you are picking on a guy who was in his first season of first class cricket, let alone int. cricket.

wasim, the best fast bowler as most say but how effective was he in 1984?

Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk
 
Aman said:
Starc is already an ODI great. How many bowlers could do what he did in 2015 WC? How many WC's did Wasim and Waqar win for Aus, that too on roads. The guy is an absolute beast in LOI's and a dead set ATG in LOI's, perhaps may even end up as the greatest ever ODI bowler if he continues this way.
Click to expand...

He is not an ODI great yet. How can you consider someone an ODI great just after 46 matches? Whoa.
 
axl100mph said:
Lol, once again you are picking on a guy who was in his first season of first class cricket, let alone int. cricket.

wasim, the best fast bowler as most say but how effective was he in 1984?

Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk
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How good did Irfan Pathan go in his first year? One year doesn't make a player, he still has loads to do to get remotely close to the hype he gets here. As of now, he's behind everyone and starting from nothing.
 
The Last Of The Stars said:
He is not an ODI great yet. How can you consider someone an ODI great just after 46 matches? Whoa.
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Some Aussies already have him in their ATG Aus team, in the same way I have him as an ODI great in my books.

What he achieved in 2015 WC sealed it for mine, his record before that was also exceptional.
 
Aman said:
Some Aussies already have him in their ATG Aus team, in the same way I have him as an ODI great in my books.

What he achieved in 2015 WC sealed it for mine, his record before that was also exceptional.
Click to expand...

Some Aussies do hype prematurely.

Yes he was phenomenal in the WC but I don't consider him a great yet. I will judge after 100 ODIs, at least.
 
Aman said:
How good did Irfan Pathan go in his first year? One year doesn't make a player, he still has loads to do to get remotely close to the hype he gets here. As of now, he's behind everyone and starting from nothing.
Click to expand...
Comprehension fail?

You are the one downplaying his achievements in his first year and then come back saying "one year doesnt make a player".
sure it doesnt but unlike you, people with knowledge can judge potential in that period.
I will say it again 'boult is a poor man's amir'
Will get clearer as time goes on.



Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk
 
axl100mph said:
Comprehension fail?

You are the one downplaying his achievements in his first year and then come back saying "one year doesnt make a player".
sure it doesnt but unlike you, people with knowledge can judge potential in that period.
I will say it again 'boult is a poor man's amir'
Will get clearer as time goes on.



Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk
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Yeah, a lot of people with 'knowledge' also had Umar marked for greatness. We all saw how that ended up.

A few series in favorable conditions doesn't make a world class bowler, it's performing in conditions around the world both unfavorable and favorable that gets you there.

This is something Amir is yet to achieve, once (or if) he does that, maybe then we can talk about him being in the same league as Steyn, Starc (still has to prove himself in Tests) and Boult.
 
The Last Of The Stars said:
Some Aussies do hype prematurely.

Yes he was phenomenal in the WC but I don't consider him a great yet. I will judge after 100 ODIs, at least.
Click to expand...
The Aussie posters here some of the most sensible, never have I seen them hype players prematurely. They have historical perspective and know what they have in Starc.
 
Aman said:
Yeah, a lot of people with 'knowledge' also had Umar marked for greatness. We all saw how that ended up. A few series in favorable conditions doesn't make a world class bowler, it's performing in conditions around the world both unfavorable and favorable that gets you there. This is something Amir is yet to achieve, once he does that, maybe then we can talk about him being in the same league as Steyn, Starc (still has to prove himself in Tests) and Boult.
Click to expand...
I wasnt the one earmarking umar as a great.
In fact, I was too young then to be judging potential myself.
He had/maybe has ability but unlike amir he doesnt have the brain to go with it.

Starc may have more ability but he doesnt have the shrewdness of amir, which is the main factor of me rating him so high.
Even in this age of batting, he will somehow find a way to do well.

Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk
 
Aman said:
The Aussie posters here some of the most sensible, never have I seen them hype players prematurely. They have historical perspective and know what they have in Starc.
Click to expand...

I don't know any Australian poster here. But on Facebook there are some who hype prematurely.
 
axl100mph said:
I wasnt the one earmarking umar as a great.
In fact, I was too young then to be judging potential myself.
He had/maybe has ability but unlike amir he doesnt have the brain to go with it.

Starc may have more ability but he doesnt have the shrewdness of amir, which is the main factor of me rating him so high.
Even in this age of batting, he will somehow find a way to do well.

Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Starc, more ability? In golf?
 
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