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The case for/against Younis Khan's Test match batting in 2016

Pete Rose

Pete Rose

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There has been plenty of discussion about Younis Khan’s capabilities as a test batsman, in particular his pedigree against faster bowlers in more challenging conditions than UAE. While his overall numbers put him in the league of modern day greats, there are a vocal minority (me being one of them) who don’t really rate him as high. I would not go as far as calling him a fat track bully, but a batsmen who is more comfortable with spin rather than pace. I have advocated quite vocally that neither him and Misbah should tour next year. With my biases clearly stated above, I present below some numbers which don't make as clear cut a case for either side.

So I went on cricinfo looking at the stat guru for a measure of how a batsman fares home and away vs. pacers or spinners. Average against both seemed to be the way to go. So here follow the numbers below.


Younis Khan (career runs 9,116)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 56.36/ 51.95
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 52.78/ 31.8
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 46.22/ 55.27
Not out innings/runs (home): 6/ 356
Not out innings/runs (away): 11/ 1,113

Yk played 59 test matches away and 45 tests at home. He has some very impressive numbers at home in terms of total average and against pace and spin. In fact, against pace he has the best average not just vs his peers but also vs. contemporary atg’s like the big 3 + 1 (SRT, Lara, Ponting, Kallis). If there is a weakness in his numbers it’s his average against pacers when away from home. It's a paltry, 31.8. Having said that, there is no shame in that: Pietersen, Clarke, and Chanderpaul have similar numbers against pace when touring. Unfortunately for Yk guys like KP, Clarke, Chanderpaul played more of their matches touring countries that have better pace bowling attacks and conditions (like Australia, England, South Africa) so their average against pace bowling reflects facing tough conditions.. Now that is not Yk’s fault that the touring schedule did not favor him at the peak of his powers. But that average of 31.8 is built largely on less pace intensive countries. So what does it all mean? For most fans and independants it means he has the capability to replicate this in 2016 and etch his name firmly in the modern day greats. For sceptics like me, I would say the odds are against him.

Going through numbers of some of the leading batsmen of the last decades a few things are easily confirmed:

Home advantage really matters (honorable exception for SRT, whose consistency was one of his hallmarks
In general batsmen have an easier time against spin vs. pace
Staggeringly, Chanderpaul has scored nearly 30% of his runs in not-outs, it explains his high overall average despite lower averages vs. pace and spin.
The most accomplished player against pace bowling is Brian Lara. (i can see this being argued either way, considering the kind of pitches on which lara broke the world record twice)
All errors, omissions, commission, biases are mine: feel free to question



Kevin Pietersen (Career runs: 8,181)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 52.75/ 41.88
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 50.39/ 29.56
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 48.17/ 45.65
Not out innings/runs (home): 3/ 276
Not out innings/runs (away): 5/ 293

Michael Clarke (Career runs: 8,643)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 62.05/ 39.49
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 42.26/ 32.38
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 57.87/ 39.17
Not out innings/runs (home): 10/ 1086
Not out innings/runs (away): 11/ 518

Shivnarine Chanderpaul (career runs: 11,867)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 58.36/ 45.44
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 32.09/ 31.80
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 39.76/ 32.62
Not out innings/runs (home): 27/ 2,431
Not out innings/runs (away): 22/ 1,663

Kumar Sangakarra (career runs: 12,400)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 60.44/ 54.07
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 41.77/ 44.08
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 61.45/ 67.15
Not out innings/runs (home): 11/ 1,181
Not out innings/runs (away): 1/ 27

Jacques Kallis (career runs: 13,289)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 56.73/ 53.91
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 44.94/ 36.60
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 45.45/ 40.1
Not out innings/runs (home): 19/ 1,507
Not out innings/runs (away): 21/ 1,739

Ricky Ponting (career runs: 13,378)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 56.97/ 46.40
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 39.90/ 40.78
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 80.56/ 40.58
Not out innings/runs (home): 20/ 1,111
Not out innings/runs (away): 8/ 595

Brian Lara (career runs: 11,953)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 58.65/ 47.80
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 51.27/ 41.51
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 55.1/ 52.59
Not out innings/runs (home): 5/ 660
Not out innings/runs (away): 1/48

Sachin Tendulkar (career runs: 15,921)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 52.67/ 54.74
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 42.68/ 42.65
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 50.23/ 49.55
Not out innings/runs (home): 16/ 998
Not out innings/runs (away): 17/ 1,828 runs
 
Younis Khan used to be an excellent player of quick bowling.

But since he was around 35 I've noticed that his footwork is much more jumpy than before - like Jonathan Trott just before he retired.

He would be a walking wicket in England or Australia, as would Misbah.
 
Junaids said:
Younis Khan used to be an excellent player of quick bowling.

But since he was around 35 I've noticed that his footwork is much more jumpy than before - like Jonathan Trott just before he retired.

He would be a walking wicket in England or Australia, as would Misbah.
Click to expand...

According to you, everyone would fail besides Umar Akmal :D.
 
Junaids said:
Younis Khan used to be an excellent player of quick bowling.

But since he was around 35 I've noticed that his footwork is much more jumpy than before - like Jonathan Trott just before he retired.

He would be a walking wicket in England or Australia, as would Misbah.
Click to expand...

The UAE wickets provide too much comfort. Block out pacers all day, without fear of a single delivering bouncing higher than predicted.
 
abbhaz65 said:
According to you, everyone would fail besides Umar Akmal :D.
Click to expand...

I think that the two players with the best foot movement and eye response are actually Umar Akmal and Babar Azam.

I think that Asad Shafiq will do fine at 6 and Sarfraz will do well at 7.

I think Azhar Ali will do okay but not great.

I worry about Shehzad and I hold out no hope for Younis, Hafeez and Misbah.
 
Junaids said:
I think that the two players with the best foot movement and eye response are actually Umar Akmal and Babar Azam.

I think that Asad Shafiq will do fine at 6 and Sarfraz will do well at 7.

I think Azhar Ali will do okay but not great.

I worry about Shehzad and I hold out no hope for Younis, Hafeez and Misbah.
Click to expand...

Umar Akmal needs a brain to survive for a longer period.

But it's a repeated and pointless discussion so I'm not going to bother anymore.
 
This is a great post, well done.

I don't view Khan's numbers as particularly bad when you see guys like Clarke, KP and Kallis are all averaging more or less as much as he does against pace bowling, in away matches. Younis averages more than them when facing spin, away, so it all balances out.

By the way, some of these numbers seem dodgy, how is that Kallis and Chanderpaul have career averages of 50+ but they don't average that much against any sort of bowling, anywhere?
 
will get exposed outside of SC.. Same ppl advocating him right now will make 50 new threads on why he should have been out 5 years ago
 
Pete Rose said:
There has been plenty of discussion about Younis Khan’s capabilities as a test batsman, in particular his pedigree against faster bowlers in more challenging conditions than UAE. While his overall numbers put him in the league of modern day greats, there are a vocal minority (me being one of them) who don’t really rate him as high. I would not go as far as calling him a fat track bully, but a batsmen who is more comfortable with spin rather than pace. I have advocated quite vocally that neither him and Misbah should tour next year. With my biases clearly stated above, I present below some numbers which don't make as clear cut a case for either side.

So I went on cricinfo looking at the stat guru for a measure of how a batsman fares home and away vs. pacers or spinners. Average against both seemed to be the way to go. So here follow the numbers below.


Younis Khan (career runs 9,116)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 56.36/ 51.95
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 52.78/ 31.8
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 46.22/ 55.27
Not out innings/runs (home): 6/ 356
Not out innings/runs (away): 11/ 1,113

Yk played 59 test matches away and 45 tests at home. He has some very impressive numbers at home in terms of total average and against pace and spin. In fact, against pace he has the best average not just vs his peers but also vs. contemporary atg’s like the big 3 + 1 (SRT, Lara, Ponting, Kallis). If there is a weakness in his numbers it’s his average against pacers when away from home. It's a paltry, 31.8. Having said that, there is no shame in that: Pietersen, Clarke, and Chanderpaul have similar numbers against pace when touring. Unfortunately for Yk guys like KP, Clarke, Chanderpaul played more of their matches touring countries that have better pace bowling attacks and conditions (like Australia, England, South Africa) so their average against pace bowling reflects facing tough conditions.. Now that is not Yk’s fault that the touring schedule did not favor him at the peak of his powers. But that average of 31.8 is built largely on less pace intensive countries. So what does it all mean? For most fans and independants it means he has the capability to replicate this in 2016 and etch his name firmly in the modern day greats. For sceptics like me, I would say the odds are against him.

Going through numbers of some of the leading batsmen of the last decades a few things are easily confirmed:

Home advantage really matters (honorable exception for SRT, whose consistency was one of his hallmarks
In general batsmen have an easier time against spin vs. pace
Staggeringly, Chanderpaul has scored nearly 30% of his runs in not-outs, it explains his high overall average despite lower averages vs. pace and spin.
The most accomplished player against pace bowling is Brian Lara. (i can see this being argued either way, considering the kind of pitches on which lara broke the world record twice)
All errors, omissions, commission, biases are mine: feel free to question



Kevin Pietersen (Career runs: 8,181)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 52.75/ 41.88
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 50.39/ 29.56
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 48.17/ 45.65
Not out innings/runs (home): 3/ 276
Not out innings/runs (away): 5/ 293

Michael Clarke (Career runs: 8,643)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 62.05/ 39.49
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 42.26/ 32.38
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 57.87/ 39.17
Not out innings/runs (home): 10/ 1086
Not out innings/runs (away): 11/ 518

Shivnarine Chanderpaul (career runs: 11,867)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 58.36/ 45.44
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 32.09/ 31.80
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 39.76/ 32.62
Not out innings/runs (home): 27/ 2,431
Not out innings/runs (away): 22/ 1,663

Kumar Sangakarra (career runs: 12,400)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 60.44/ 54.07
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 41.77/ 44.08
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 61.45/ 67.15
Not out innings/runs (home): 11/ 1,181
Not out innings/runs (away): 1/ 27

Jacques Kallis (career runs: 13,289)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 56.73/ 53.91
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 44.94/ 36.60
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 45.45/ 40.1
Not out innings/runs (home): 19/ 1,507
Not out innings/runs (away): 21/ 1,739

Ricky Ponting (career runs: 13,378)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 56.97/ 46.40
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 39.90/ 40.78
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 80.56/ 40.58
Not out innings/runs (home): 20/ 1,111
Not out innings/runs (away): 8/ 595

Brian Lara (career runs: 11,953)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 58.65/ 47.80
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 51.27/ 41.51
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 55.1/ 52.59
Not out innings/runs (home): 5/ 660
Not out innings/runs (away): 1/48

Sachin Tendulkar (career runs: 15,921)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 52.67/ 54.74
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 42.68/ 42.65
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 50.23/ 49.55
Not out innings/runs (home): 16/ 998
Not out innings/runs (away): 17/ 1,828 runs
Click to expand...
Thanks for this.

The thing about SRT is that he is at home againist any kind of bowling home or away.
 
Bilal7 said:
This is a great post, well done.

I don't view Khan's numbers as particularly bad when you see guys like Clarke, KP and Kallis are all averaging more or less as much as he does against pace bowling, in away matches. Younis averages more than them when facing spin, away, so it all balances out.

By the way, some of these numbers seem dodgy, how is that Kallis and Chanderpaul have career averages of 50+ but they don't average that much against any sort of bowling, anywhere?
Click to expand...

thanks, its the not-outs: chanderpal > 35% in not outs and Kallis had about 25%. check the last two lines for every player
 
Pete Rose said:
thanks, its the not-outs: chanderpal > 35% in not outs and Kallis had about 25%. check the last two lines for every player
Click to expand...

Great, that clears it up.

Amazingly, Khan's average against spin away is better than anyone's on that list except Sanga. Whatever minor deficiencies he may have against pace are more than made up with his dominance of spin bowling.
 
Younis khan in his youth was different to what he is now. He will be exposed
 
By the way [MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION] I need to ask this because quite honestly I am a NOOB of the highest order but how did you manage to segregate numbers of different batsman based on Pace or Spin ?? Is there any option in cricinfo on how to do this ???? Would appreciate you help on the matter
 
Rahul Dravid (Career runs: 13,288)
Total average (home avg/away avg): 52.31/ 53.03
Against Pace (home avg/away avg): 40.15 / 39.33
Against Spin (home avg/away avg): 52.40/ 54.62
Not out innings/runs (home): 3/ 276
Not out innings/runs (away): 5/ 293
 
Bilal7 said:
Great, that clears it up.

Amazingly, Khan's average against spin away is better than anyone's on that list except Sanga. Whatever minor deficiencies he may have against pace are more than made up with his dominance of spin bowling.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
I think the YK of the last 5 years has been phenomenal as an overall player and as I mention in my original post, a few things stand out:
1 - His numbers against pace at home, are outstanding: comparable to the big 3 + 1
2 - He will murder spin when touring
3 - His low numbers against pace away, are in my view an anomaly, NOT a characteristic. I think he can fix it, but age plays a role.
If he can somehow replicate his method of batting abroad (survive vs. pace and dominate spin: I do realize that the bowling composition he will face in Aus and Eng is different): he will be a legend.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
By the way [MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION] I need to ask this because quite honestly I am a NOOB of the highest order but how did you manage to segregate numbers of different batsman based on Pace or Spin ?? Is there any option in cricinfo on how to do this ???? Would appreciate you help on the matter
Click to expand...

Yeah, I kind of stumbled on to it.
You go to player profile on statguru and tick advance filter,
within that, right at the bottom: in the sub-section view format, select batting formats, and within that select dismissal summary.
 
Accepting the logic, given most of world cricket today is being played on flat tracks; and apart from England, teams have declining or mediocre pace attacks, Younus may yet provide some meaningful innings in helpful conditions. We may even win a test or two thanks to him.

Plus, it may sound a flimsy reason to take a batsman but we need his slip catching as well. We have won tests because we have held on to catches in the slips.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
Accepting the logic, given most of world cricket today is being played on flat tracks; and apart from England, teams have declining or mediocre pace attacks, Younus may yet provide some meaningful innings in helpful conditions. We may even win a test or two thanks to him.

Plus, it may sound a flimsy reason to take a batsman but we need his slip catching as well. We have won tests because we have held on to catches in the slips.
Click to expand...

All good reasons provided his ego is in check when he is passed over as captain. Moyo picked a lot of fights after his record breaking year and as a result was distracted thereafter.
 
I'd already posted this before but YK is very susceptible to short pitch balls. I've seen him crouch very low in his stance when the bowler releases the ball and that's why you see him jumping in the air to combat bounce. Sarfraz does the same as well. On sub continent pitches, he is quick enough to adjust but I have serious doubts in AUS
 
Don't really care how much he averages against spin, as long as he continues to perform, the way he has in recent times. And just because he is perceived as 'bad' against pace, you can't drop him. On what grounds are you going to drop him, given that he has performed very well in the recent past.
 
Watsupdoc said:
On what grounds are you going to drop him, given that he has performed very well in the recent past.
Click to expand...

You might not want to drop him, but he and the management need to know that they have a big test ahead of him given his numbers against pace away are way low. I can understand ppl arguing that he deserves a shot..but I also would be immeasurably surprised/happy if he can fix this anomaly so late in his career.
 
Pete Rose said:
Exactly.
I think the YK of the last 5 years has been phenomenal as an overall player and as I mention in my original post, a few things stand out:
1 - His numbers against pace at home, are outstanding: comparable to the big 3 + 1
2 - He will murder spin when touring
3 - His low numbers against pace away, are in my view an anomaly, NOT a characteristic. I think he can fix it, but age plays a role.
If he can somehow replicate his method of batting abroad (survive vs. pace and dominate spin: I do realize that the bowling composition he will face in Aus and Eng is different): he will be a legend.
Click to expand...

This is a FANTASTIC post and what is sorely missing on PP these days with all the drama and masala.

I was going to highlight that last point - I think he could do quite well in England, but he's going to really struggle in Australia if their bowling composition remains as pace-heavy as it is.
 
Pete Rose said:
You might not want to drop him, but he and the management need to know that they have a big test ahead of him given his numbers against pace away are way low. I can understand ppl arguing that he deserves a shot..but I also would be immeasurably surprised/happy if he can fix this anomaly so late in his career.
Click to expand...

I am sure he and the management both know about this. He doesn't need to 'fix' it, as long as he can survive against pace and cash in on spin.
 
Watsupdoc said:
I am sure he and the management both know about this. He doesn't need to 'fix' it, as long as he can survive against pace and cash in on spin.
Click to expand...

"Surviving" against pace in Australia against Australia isn't something you can just do if it's a problem for you.
 
We need MYK with out him the batting line up look's completely empty and the result's in England and Aus will be exactly like whats happening to WI atm
 
Also add AB, Cook, Amla stats against pace/spin home and away..
 
While the detail in the OP is thorough, what the analysis is missing is a comparison with other Pakistani players. If the conclusion is, YK should not play, the next question is, who should?

Here are the stats of all Pakistani players in away games (outside of the UAE and - also BD due to the nature of their pitches) since the "UAE happened":

AwayPerformance.jpg

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=7;template=results;type=batting

And if you take out SL and WI (though the sample size becomes unacceptable):
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=7;template=results;type=batting

The reality is, most players playing away from home are going to trail their overall averages. You are playing on an unfamiliar surface against those who play better on those surfaces. This argument would have been valid before the last SA tour as well - yet YK did reasonably well on that tour.

If you recall the last England series in the UAE, you will see that Anderson and Broad did very well against Pakistani batsmen. Yet England lost the series 2-0. This is classic test cricket -- where success revolves around attritional tactics if cornered and a wartime strategy if you see an opening.

You go after the opposition's weak links and guard against their strength. You need not play the best pacers with utmost ease if you can score against the overall team as a part of your strategy.

I very much agree though that YK's reflexes have slowed down. He is not the quick-on-his-feet player that he was in the past. He still has the experience to overcome a lot of it though.
 
Junaids said:
I think that the two players with the best foot movement and eye response are actually Umar Akmal and Babar Azam.

I think that Asad Shafiq will do fine at 6 and Sarfraz will do well at 7.

I think Azhar Ali will do okay but not great.

I worry about Shehzad and I hold out no hope for Younis, Hafeez and Misbah.
Click to expand...

Your assessment is correct for current test team...we don't have opener at all, that weakness is masked in UAE but will badly exposed on green and bounce. Plus YK and Misbah are too old to face seamers... Blocking seamers and milking spinners strategy is not going to work over there.

I am not sold on UA technique against testing conditions, his defense is very weak...his reflexes and hand eye coordination is good but foot work is not that great. He will struggle against moving ball even in Odis, his weak defense and foot work is prime reason he does not bat up the order in Odis... He has developed into more of a slogger than higher order batsman... Also his temperament is poor as well...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ironcat said:
While the detail in the OP is thorough, what the analysis is missing is a comparison with other Pakistani players. If the conclusion is, YK should not play, the next question is, who should?

Here are the stats of all Pakistani players in away games (outside of the UAE and - also BD due to the nature of their pitches) since the "UAE happened":

View attachment 63175

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=7;template=results;type=batting

And if you take out SL and WI (though the sample size becomes unacceptable):
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=7;template=results;type=batting

The reality is, most players playing away from home are going to trail their overall averages. You are playing on an unfamiliar surface against those who play better on those surfaces. This argument would have been valid before the last SA tour as well - yet YK did reasonably well on that tour.

If you recall the last England series in the UAE, you will see that Anderson and Broad did very well against Pakistani batsmen. Yet England lost the series 2-0. This is classic test cricket -- where success revolves around attritional tactics if cornered and a wartime strategy if you see an opening.

You go after the opposition's weak links and guard against their strength. You need not play the best pacers with utmost ease if you can score against the overall team as a part of your strategy.

I very much agree though that YK's reflexes have slowed down. He is not the quick-on-his-feet player that he was in the past. He still has the experience to overcome a lot of it though.
Click to expand...

It is a fair point, and shown in the original post, home advantage counts for a lot. My concern is whether the nature of attritional cricket in UAE is the same as England or oz. you don't face demonic pitches in those countries but they are not completely somnolent as well. All it takes is for one ball to deviate, something that doesn't happen much in UAE. The exaggerated low crouch stance is fine for UAE but not where will we go next year. My point even before this thread was that it's not just YK. If we carry a team with Hafeez, YK, Misbah to England and beyond next year, we will get hammered deservedly. Knowing what we face, we should be finding opportunities to change things around. Eg we should be asking shafiq to move two down so that YK and or Misbah don't face the heat upfront.
 
liaqat said:
We need MYK with out him the batting line up look's completely empty and the result's in England and Aus will be exactly like whats happening to WI atm
Click to expand...

exactly we missed him in 2010 series also
whatever be the problems for him against pace
we still need him till australia series
yk is a good mentor also
 
Younis khan is a world class batsmen and still is performing to best of his abilities, there is no question he should be playing for Tours to england, new zealand and Australia. There is no question about it.
 
I expect YK to pile runs quite like Kohli and Williamson on those dead pitches of Australia in recent times.In England, he may struggle but I think he will still hit one century and may go missing in other games.
 
Time to bump this thread. An average of 30 against pace away needs to be rectified.
 
I don't think it was a necessarily bad innings

He made a bad mistake which was an unforced error which led to the wicket.

Ofcourse people will say that he didn't look good against pace but aesthetics has never really been his strength. What matters is to me he looked in control of the situation
 
Slog said:
I don't think it was a necessarily bad innings

He made a bad mistake which was an unforced error which led to the wicket.

Ofcourse people will say that he didn't look good against pace but aesthetics has never really been his strength. What matters is to me he looked in control of the situation
Click to expand...
I don't think a guy with 9000 runs is going to be embarrassed by a little bit of pace: clearly he has the skills to play long innings. I just think that batting abroad is not easy. That shot he played would have barely seen the ball go in the air in UAE.
 
Aged 40+ he's obviously nowhere near his peak but he can still do a job for Pakistan. We should wait until the end of the series before judging him.
 
It wasnt a bad innings at all, he gifted his wicket though. But i still believe in him, he will strike back.
 
So far he has looked very embarrassing and seriously out of his depth. Another Pakistani batsman whose stats have been inflated by batting in the SC and UAE. To play well consistently in places like UAE, NZ and Australia you have to have a good technique which sadly he just does not.
 
Pete Rose said:
I am on the fence. His dismissal today will haunt him the rest of this tour
Click to expand...
Very embarassing soft dismissal today but hasn’t been the first time with him. So lets Hope he bounces back once more.

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Younis is looking woeful he will be a flop in Australia he should retire after this tour.

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I consider Younis to be a lucky batsman. He has played very, very little overseas cricket for someone who made his debut in 2000.

That has helped his stats greatly.
 
Mamoon said:
I consider Younis to be a lucky batsman. He has played very, very little overseas cricket for someone who made his debut in 2000.

That has helped his stats greatly.
Click to expand...
Basically this.That is why he is nowhere near a ATG as claimed by some on PP.Not even a great.
 
Mamoon said:
I consider Younis to be a lucky batsman. He has played very, very little overseas cricket for someone who made his debut in 2000.

That has helped his stats greatly.
Click to expand...

This i have to thoroughly agree with.
 
I stiil think he will have one major innings that will decide the fate of a game in this series.

Today was unfortuante though he has a history for this- but no way was stokes bowling for that
 
AlphaFighter said:
This i have to thoroughly agree with.
Click to expand...


Quite infuriating when you see people call him a better batsman than the likes of Miandad, Inzamam, Saleem Malik, MoYo, Saeed Anwar etc.

He is not in their class.
 
Mamoon said:
Quite infuriating when you see people call him a better batsman than the likes of Miandad, Inzamam, Saleem Malik, MoYo, Saeed Anwar etc.

He is not in their class.
Click to expand...

I think people gave him credit for his achievements where he ended up with a better record than them purely down to his hard work, grit and temprament even though he didn't have the talent or technique to come up with the numbers he eventually ended up with.
 
Pakistan has to plan for life after yk.
unfortunately for Pakistan, yk is planning for life after misbah
 
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Let me tell you what will happen in the next few months:

He will fill his boots against West Indies in the UAE with a hundred in each Test, and his fans will dream about him scoring hundreds in Australia in the winters.

He will fail on that tour as well and then PCB will drop him and tell him that he is not in their future plans.

Younis Khan will throw a massive tantrum and pull PCB's pants down on live TV; he will let the world know how this is disrespect of a senior pro like him and how PCB doesn't know how to treat its legends.

With Misbah retired and Pakistan's new captain (Azhar/Shafiq/Sarfraz) under serious pressure after leading his team to a whitewash in Australia, Younis will indirectly express his desire to lead the side as well and his friends in the media, will start lobbying for him to replace the new captain because the team needs experience and proven leadership.

PCB will succumb to the pressure eventually and will bring him back to the team, but not as captain. After a poor series, he will be dropped once again and this time, he will announce his retirement and request for a farewell series which will be granted of course, since he must quit on his own terms.

By my estimation, all of this drama is going to happen between January and March, and he will play his last series somewhere around next summer.

Afterwards, he will join Akhtar and MoYo on Geo and run his mouth 24/7, for which he has done very good rehearsal already.
 
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Why are people belittling his past performamce over present failures.
He has a pretty decent overseas record and out performed the likes of yousaf when they played together.
Dont rewrite history to score points.
 
I will be bumping this a fair bit this summer I suspect
 
ethan hunt said:
Why are people belittling his past performamce over present failures.
He has a pretty decent overseas record and out performed the likes of yousaf when they played together.
Dont rewrite history to score points.
Click to expand...

This is a valid point.

Younis is an old man in cricketing terms - according to the man himself he was born in 1975 which makes him 40 or 41 today. Now how many international batsmen could play successfully at the top level at this age? Lara, Ponting, Tendulkar, Kallis etc all regressed big time in their late 30s so had they played into their 40s they'd also look like ugly hacks. There are very few exceptions to this rule - Misbah is one and Graham Gooch another. Can't think of many others.

That said Younis must know himself that he's not the same player as he was so perhaps it's time to jump (no not around the crease) before he's pushed.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
This is a valid point.

Younis is an old man in cricketing terms - according to the man himself he was born in 1975 which makes him 40 or 41 today. Now how many international batsmen could play successfully at the top level at this age? Lara, Ponting, Tendulkar, Kallis etc all regressed big time in their late 30s so had they played into their 40s they'd also look like ugly hacks. There are very few exceptions to this rule - Misbah is one and Graham Gooch another. Can't think of many others.

That said Younis must know himself that he's not the same player as he was so perhaps it's time to jump (no not around the crease) before he's pushed.
Click to expand...

I dont belittle his performance. I just ask him to be realistic about his current form. It might hurt his ego but he should ask for a demotion in the batting line up (graceful retirement is not a pakistani thing, so I will settle for second best)
 
How Time Changes.


2006 & 2016 only a digit difference but 10 years in between.


289b4e174e888519bed7fe7219a15c39.jpg


Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
The away average of 30 vs pace is not an anomaly I guess
 
Time to plug this again. Waiting for yk's century at scg.
 
great thread sir and I apologize for misreading your stance about YK.

It's a well known fact and I have repeated this from time to time and YK and Misbah have scored majority of their runs against spin in their last 5 years. There is nothing wrong to score against spin but when you try to negotiate playing any shot against fast bowlers even on graveyards and wait for spinners to come on and increase your runs coloumn then it is really a big concern. This not only expose your limitations as a batsman but also expose how afraid you are all the time. This just shows these legends were hiding their weaknesses and trying to prolong their carrers with these limitations. The way they used to bat against fast bowlers is you bat when you are playing your last test innings to finish on a high but they lasted for 5 years. It's incredible and a great achievement for them but it was always going to prove costly for Pakistan team and fans.

A player who is scared to play his shots on graveyards against fast bowlers I bet we could have find better replacements. These players should have been said goodbye 5 years ago but not only they managed to play in tests they also managed to feature in 2013 world cup on bouncy pitches of NZ and Aus as their ODI farewell(LOL) the feat you only give to legends.

These are things why I do not have respect for players like YK and Misbah. It's nothing personal if anyone is mistaken. They need to look at things from the other end as well.
 
Younis Khan outside Asia 2016

Age: 43
Innings: 15
Fifties: 1
Hundreds: 1
Failures: 13

He used to be a high quality batsman, but after 13 failures in 15 away Test innings in the last six months, it's over and out.
 
MRSN said:
great thread sir and I apologize for misreading your stance about YK.

It's a well known fact and I have repeated this from time to time and YK and Misbah have scored majority of their runs against spin in their last 5 years. There is nothing wrong to score against spin but when you try to negotiate playing any shot against fast bowlers even on graveyards and wait for spinners to come on and increase your runs coloumn then it is really a big concern. This not only expose your limitations as a batsman but also expose how afraid you are all the time. This just shows these legends were hiding their weaknesses and trying to prolong their carrers with these limitations. The way they used to bat against fast bowlers is you bat when you are playing your last test innings to finish on a high but they lasted for 5 years. It's incredible and a great achievement for them but it was always going to prove costly for Pakistan team and fans.

A player who is scared to play his shots on graveyards against fast bowlers I bet we could have find better replacements. These players should have been said goodbye 5 years ago but not only they managed to play in tests they also managed to feature in 2013 world cup on bouncy pitches of NZ and Aus as their ODI farewell(LOL) the feat you only give to legends.

These are things why I do not have respect for players like YK and Misbah. It's nothing personal if anyone is mistaken. They need to look at things from the other end as well.
Click to expand...

FWIW,
I think Misbah and YK have done a far better job of ensuring our dominance at home than moyo, inzi others ever could:we are now a team that is feared at home - we has lost that invincibility in the period of 1995 - 2010. And for that they deserve immense credit. I would go as far as to say that they rival india's batsmen when it comes to ensuring that we are dominant at home. Therefore we must be generous with praise.

In England, basically if you combine their outputs: misbah had a big part in the first test match win while yk had a big part in the last test match win - in between they were very poor.

It is not their fault, that they continue to be selected by the PCB, and certainly Mickey Arthur (after his player related issues with Australia) is going to be diplomatic about putting his foot down.

Ultimately like everything else, it is the PCB's fault: I sincerely blv we had a shot at toppling Australia this summer, but we are playing two batsmen short in every match.
 
Pete Rose said:
FWIW,
I think Misbah and YK have done a far better job of ensuring our dominance at home than moyo, inzi others ever could:we are now a team that is feared at home - we has lost that invincibility in the period of 1995 - 2010. And for that they deserve immense credit. I would go as far as to say that they rival india's batsmen when it comes to ensuring that we are dominant at home. Therefore we must be generous with praise.

In England, basically if you combine their outputs: misbah had a big part in the first test match win while yk had a big part in the last test match win - in between they were very poor.

It is not their fault, that they continue to be selected by the PCB, and certainly Mickey Arthur (after his player related issues with Australia) is going to be diplomatic about putting his foot down.

Ultimately like everything else, it is the PCB's fault: I sincerely blv we had a shot at toppling Australia this summer, but we are playing two batsmen short in every match.
Click to expand...

to be fair Pakistani pitches were not similar to UAE. UAE's pitches have little for fast bowlers and have more support for spinners. pitches in Pakistan were pretty flat. but despite that Inzi had a successful home record as a captain beating England and Indian teams those were some quality teams no one can deny that fact. The current Eng,Aus teams visiting UAE have been whitewashed even in India and SL. they just struggle against turn.

...but that's drifting away from actual point. The point was it is hard for me as a fan to trust someone with such weaknesses that I witnessed. The problem is when someone makes a habit of avoiding scoring runs against fast bowlers on flat pitches which should be relatively easier task,but when someone tries to avoid such easier task how can you depend on such players for long term? This is like someone trying to cheat a test. These players should have either worked hard on these weaknessess rather than trying to avoid it if they wanted to play for such a long time or should have called their day.

I fear they instilled such approach in players like Azhar and Sami Aslam as well. I have seen them bat with similar approach. It's Asad and Sarfraz who have not been victim of this mentality.

I agree with you, in best world scenario a competent PCB would have analysed these weaknessess of their prominent players and handle it well but we have some really looney tunes running the show who really do not go that deep with their analysis and decision making.

I just hope this approach of Misbah and YK does not leave scars on our young batsmen.
 
Younis Khan is an ATG in every sense of the word. He'll confirm it if he can turn back the clock one last time at the SCG. Played a good hand in a superb fourth innings effort at the Gabba already.

Right up there with Dravid and Sanga from the Asian ATGs, if not better.
 
I do analyze lot of data. Here, mot critical data is 45/46 & 43/44 - that's the age Misbah & YK will touch at their next birthday. Rest are immaterial, because in this PAK line-up, YK, even Misbah of 2007 would have been like Bradman or Hobbs. Posters here are a bit excited with Azhar's achievement of 2016 - I wonder what they would have done in between 2004 to 2007, with YK, MoYo & Inzi at 3, 4 & 5.

Fundamental mistake that Shahriar Khan did was goofing up his PCB office with his Office at Ministry of Foreign Affairs - diplomats mature & deliver with age & experience (but still, 82 is too much :(), sportsmen reach 82 at half of that age.
 
MMHS said:
I do analyze lot of data. Here, mot critical data is 45/46 & 43/44 - that's the age Misbah & YK will touch at their next birthday. Rest are immaterial, because in this PAK line-up, YK, even Misbah of 2007 would have been like Bradman or Hobbs. Posters here are a bit excited with Azhar's achievement of 2016 - I wonder what they would have done in between 2004 to 2007, with YK, MoYo & Inzi at 3, 4 & 5.

Fundamental mistake that Shahriar Khan did was goofing up his PCB office with his Office at Ministry of Foreign Affairs - diplomats mature & deliver with age & experience (but still, 82 is too much :(), sportsmen reach 82 at half of that age.
Click to expand...
Please enlighten on what have moyo or inzi or yk have done against Australia in Australia during that period
 
Pete Rose said:
Please enlighten on what have moyo or inzi or yk have done against Australia in Australia during that period
Click to expand...

Inzi played 1 Test at WACA, scored 0 & 1 (probably), got his fingers knocked for rest of that Series. PAK lost that match by ~500 runs with 72 all out. He came back in ODI to finish 2nd best batsman after Clarke. You can check what YK & MoYo did in other 2 Tests at MCG & SCG. Apart from that AUS tour, these 3 scored over 7K Test runs in just about 3.5 years at at least 60 average.

If the 3rd Test was scheduled at that Old WACA, I can tell you, Misbah would have retired before the 3rd Test & if I add the Aussie attack of that Series, he would have retired before this tour ........ to be in one piece.
 
Bilal7 said:
Younis Khan is an ATG in every sense of the word. He'll confirm it if he can turn back the clock one last time at the SCG. Played a good hand in a superb fourth innings effort at the Gabba already.

Right up there with Dravid and Sanga from the Asian ATGs, if not better.
Click to expand...
Anyone watching the game and not blindly looking at the scorecard would know that the 60 odd Younus scored was not convincing.

50-60% of the runs in that innings were off knicks going to the boundary through the vacant 3rd/4th slip region.
 
Bilal7 said:
Younis Khan is an ATG in every sense of the word. He'll confirm it if he can turn back the clock one last time at the SCG. Played a good hand in a superb fourth innings effort at the Gabba already.

Right up there with Dravid and Sanga from the Asian ATGs, if not better.
Click to expand...

Sir while you are free to praise your own players,i request you to kindly not insult Indian players or even Sangakkara.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Fortunately, he's 200 runs away from 10k and we have Windies next so hoping for the best.
Click to expand...

West Indies or any easy series should be used to blood one upcoming batsman.

Babar should bat at 5/6 to allow him to settle in to the side.
 
He should retire after West Indies series. This should be the team:

1. Azhar Ali
2. Sami Aslam
3. Babar Azam
4. Younis Khan
5. Usman Salahuddin
6. Asad Shafiq
7. Sarfaraz
8. Amir
9. Yasir Shah
10. Junaid Khan
11. Mir Hamza
 
miandadrules said:
West Indies or any easy series should be used to blood one upcoming batsman.

Babar should bat at 5/6 to allow him to settle in to the side.
Click to expand...

Disagree with Babar moving down. After having played against Australia and NZ at 3, he should continue there. The past 4 games is as tough as it gets for any 22 year old starting his test career. He absorbed the pressure quite well, just had lapses in-between. This experience will serve him greatly the next time he tours.
 
There are some really intellectually dishonest people on this thread.

They were claiming before the NZ and Australia tour Down Under that 1-2 centuries in both the NZ and Australian tours would cement his place as an ATG in cricket.

Now after seeing Younis Khan struggle to even hit 50s, they have changed tune.

Now they are including 50s and 60s to try to get him to confirm his ATG status.

These people are actually comparing Younis Khan with Dravids and Sanggakkars , while Younis Khan can't even average more than 20 so far in the away tours.

Even if he scores two ducks in the next innings, they have established him as an ATG.

Such type of people should hang their heads in shame as they twist and turn things to their own liking to establish someone as an ATG.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Disagree with Babar moving down. After having played against Australia and NZ at 3, he should continue there. The past 4 games is as tough as it gets for any 22 year old starting his test career. He absorbed the pressure quite well, just had lapses in-between. This experience will serve him greatly the next time he tours.
Click to expand...

Keep him at three and he'll be out of the team in two years.

Mark my words.
 
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Ellipsism said:
Anyone watching the game and not blindly looking at the scorecard would know that the 60 odd Younus scored was not convincing.

50-60% of the runs in that innings were off knicks going to the boundary through the vacant 3rd/4th slip region.
Click to expand...

Smith, Warner, Shafiq have all had luck in this series and so has every other batsman to play the game. Bottom line is that Younis played a good role in one of the great Pakistani (unsuccessful) run chases of all time.

petercat said:
Sir while you are free to praise your own players,i request you to kindly not insult Indian players or even Sangakkara.
Click to expand...

Yes, and like I said, Younis is right up there with Dravid and Sangakkara.
 
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