The Conversation between Allah SWT and Prophet Isa (Jesus) (Peace be upon him)

[Champ_Pal]

Surely Prophet Moses has communicated with God himself and all Abrahamic religion believes in it. Could you explain what sort of evidence you want?

You can’t bring evidence from your holy book. Just because a bunch of people believe in it, does not make it real or truth.

This is like saying since Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism believe in reincarnation, it is real and we have to accept as a fact.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Because having multiple omnipotent beings is stupid & illogical, having equally powered or near-equally powered "gods" looks good in a Hollywood blockbuster as they fight it out but for running the universe it makes no sense!

There isn't a single rational or sensible idea for multiple gods who also run the world...If someone believes that "god" just created the universe and then left it alone then that idea is also against science.

1. The universe is created
2. The universe is structured and ordered
3. The universe is controlled

I dare you to have a scientific argument, double dare

If you wanted a childish argument, spend your time in watching a MCU movie as it will be a batter use of your time

It is allah's will that Gazan children get killed by the thousands? Is its hebrew god's will that millions turn into air pollution?

Is this god merciful?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

You can’t bring evidence from your holy book. Just because a bunch of people believe in it, does not make it real or truth.

This is like saying since Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism believe in reincarnation, it is real and we have to accept as a fact.

Ok then a simple rule of thumb.

Disapprove what is in Quran because surely that will make them impostors and if you can't then otherwise may be true?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

It is allah's will that Gazan children get killed by the thousands? Is its hebrew god's will that millions turn into air pollution?

Is this god merciful?

HE is the same God who will held "INVADERS" as per you parlance accountable for their crimes and also any another tyrants for their crimes and will punish them at their appointed time on the day of Judgement.

 

[LordJames]

It is allah's will that Gazan children get killed by the thousands? Is its hebrew god's will that millions turn into air pollution?

Is this god merciful?

My Challenge:

Because having multiple omnipotent beings is stupid & illogical, having equally powered or near-equally powered "gods" looks good in a Hollywood blockbuster as they fight it out but for running the universe it makes no sense!

There isn't a single rational or sensible idea for multiple gods who also run the world...If someone believes that "god" just created the universe and then left it alone then that idea is also against science.

1. The universe is created
2. The universe is structured and ordered
3. The universe is controlled

I dare you to have a scientific argument, double dare

If you wanted a childish argument, spend your time in watching a MCU movie as it will be a batter use of your time

Your Response:
It is allah's will that Gazan children get killed by the thousands? Is its hebrew god's will that millions turn into air pollution?


Is this god merciful?

Bottom Line:

We can have a discussion on Merciful God and evil in the world.

Lets watch you run away...

 

[rpant_gabba]

Ok then a simple rule of thumb.

Disapprove what is in Quran because surely that will make them impostors and if you can't then otherwise may be true?

no we donl;t here are 4000+ religions inthew world. your is special. Prove it.

Secular moral are superior, newton's science is better, Shakespeare literature is better

What is so special about quran? make your case.

Looks like your only super power is editing posts secretively

 

[The Bald Eagle]

no we donl;t here are 4000+ religions inthew world. your is special. Prove it.

Secular moral are superior, newton's science is better, Shakespeare literature is better

What is so special about quran? make your case.

Looks like your only super power is editing posts secretively

Challenge accepted, Mr Gabba

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@rpant_gabba, you just disapprove me in following points and I am done. Best of luck!

"We built the universe with might, and We are expanding it” (51:47)

“We created every living thing from water” (21:30)

P.S: A very basic challenge

 

[LordJames]

no we donl;t here are 4000+ religions inthew world. your is special. Prove it.

Secular moral are superior, newton's science is better, Shakespeare literature is better

What is so special about quran? make your case.

Looks like your only super power is editing posts secretively

Calm down before you have a heart attack, slow down and type, don't take your frustrations out on the device!

You have a challenge from me and a challenge from @The Bald Eagle

Let's see what you got, sunshine.

 

[rpant_gabba]

My Challenge:

Because having multiple omnipotent beings is stupid & illogical, having equally powered or near-equally powered "gods" looks good in a Hollywood blockbuster as they fight it out but for running the universe it makes no sense!

It is just as stupid as having on omnipotent being which created, every thing controls every thing, is just, merciful
but sits back and watches awful ting shpaen

There isn't a single rational or sensible idea for multiple gods who also run the world...If someone believes that "god" just created the universe and then left it alone then that idea is also against science.

1. The universe is created

Proof?

1. The universe is structured and ordered

Really? structure and order? prove it.

Ican provide about dozen intances where there doesn't there seem to be much order.

Maybe quran has solution for the turbulence problem. do yow know what I'm referring to?

1. The universe is controlled

Proof? So gazan eevnets are orchestrated by Allah?

I dare you to have a scientific argument, double dare

Scientific argument against what? your empty assertions

Like the one where you said god's nature will be discussed after his existence is accepted?

Is that the logic they teach in madrassas? not that I'm complaining. Illogical idoits are useful

If you wanted a childish argument, spend your time in watching a MCU movie as it will be a batter use of your time

Your Response:
It is allah's will that Gazan children get killed by the thousands? Is its hebrew god's will that millions turn into air pollution?


Is this god merciful?

Bottom Line:

We can have a discussion on Merciful God and evil in the world.

Lets watch you run away...

cure animation aside, you arew still stuck with explaining that this omnipotent god doesn't seem to fit your description.

Maybe you are worshiping the false god and following a fake prophet

 

[rpant_gabba]

@rpant_gabba, you just disapprove me in following points and I am done. Best of luck!

"We built the universe with might, and We are expanding it” (51:47)

“We created every living thing from water” (21:30)

P.S: A very basic challenge

So you picked two point which could mean absolutely any thing.

Is it it even original to quran and not copied of from the knowledge before?

we are expanding it? many point out that universe actually is not expanding. What is your proof that universe is expanding?

are you an expert or simoply copying others work? like writers of quran

created every living thing from water? meaning what?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

So you picked two point which could mean absolutely any thing.

Is it it even original to quran and not copied of from the knowledge before?

we are expanding it? many point out that universe actually is not expanding. What is your proof that universe is expanding?

are you an expert or simoply copying others work? like writers of quran

created every living thing from water? meaning what?

Are you mad or acting like one?

Don't panic when you are losing the plot.

The questions are simple:
1. Prove that the cosmic world is not expanding. End of Debate
2. Or name living being not made of water.

Instead of rambling, you could answer the simple questions...you have all the time in the world lol if you could ever disapprove

 

[The Bald Eagle]

So you picked two point which could mean absolutely any thing.

Is it it even original to quran and not copied of from the knowledge before?

we are expanding it? many point out that universe actually is not expanding. What is your proof that universe is expanding?

are you an expert or simoply copying others work? like writers of quran

created every living thing from water? meaning what?

Here is your scientific proof
The universe is still expanding, and this expansion is accelerating due to the influence of dark energy, a mysterious force counteracting gravity's pull15. Key points:


Current Understanding

• Acceleration confirmed: Observations of distant supernovae in 1998 revealed the expansion rate is increasing, contradicting expectations of gradual slowdown24.
• Measurement: The Hubble constant (expansion rate) is estimated between 67–73 km/s/Mpc, with recent James Webb Telescope data supporting higher values (~73 km/s/Mpc), deepening the mystery of why models and observations conflict6.

Mechanism

• Dark energy (68% of universe content) drives acceleration by creating repulsive pressure as space itself expands15.
• Scale factor: The universe's "grid" stretches over time, increasing distances between galaxies not bound by gravity13.

Future Outlook
Expansion is expected to continue indefinitely, potentially leading to a "cold" universe where galaxies become isolated56. However, the exact nature of dark energy remains unknown, leaving open questions about its long-term effects16

 

[rpant_gabba]

Are you mad or acting like one?

Don't panic when you are losing the plot.

LMAO.

The questions are simple:
1. Prove that the cosmic world is not expanding. End of Debate

you made the assertion that universe is exopanding. What is your proof.

I say its not. Prove me wrong

2. Or name living being not made of water.

you mean all living things have water in them? Hasn't that been centuries before quran?

you are admitting quran is either useless non-sense or plagiarised stuff?

Instead of rambling, you could answer the simple questions...you have all the time in the world lol if you could ever disapprove

Have you stopped my wife? Instead of rambling, give a straight answer.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Here is your scientific proof View attachment 153527
The universe is still expanding, and this expansion is accelerating due to the influence of dark energy, a mysterious force counteracting gravity's pull15. Key points:


Current Understanding

• Acceleration confirmed: Observations of distant supernovae in 1998 revealed the expansion rate is increasing, contradicting expectations of gradual slowdown24.
• Measurement: The Hubble constant (expansion rate) is estimated between 67–73 km/s/Mpc, with recent James Webb Telescope data supporting higher values (~73 km/s/Mpc), deepening the mystery of why models and observations conflict6.

Mechanism

• Dark energy (68% of universe content) drives acceleration by creating repulsive pressure as space itself expands15.
• Scale factor: The universe's "grid" stretches over time, increasing distances between galaxies not bound by gravity13.

Future Outlook
Expansion is expected to continue indefinitely, potentially leading to a "cold" universe where galaxies become isolated56. However, the exact nature of dark energy remains unknown, leaving open questions about its long-term effects16

I can copy and paste too

1. Redshift Interpretation:

• Tired Light Theory:
  Some researchers suggest that the redshift observed in distant galaxies might not be due to the expansion of space, but rather the light losing energy as it travels through space, similar to how light tires.
  
  
• Einstein's Initial Belief:
  Initially, Einstein favored a static, unchanging universe and introduced the cosmological constant to his theory to accommodate that view. He later abandoned it after Hubble's observations seemed to indicate expansion.
  

2. Challenges to Expansion:

• Constant Surface Brightness:
  Observations of galaxies show that their surface brightness remains constant with distance, which would be expected in a non-expanding universe.
  
  
• Cosmic Microwave Background:
  The CMB, a key piece of evidence for the Big Bang, is interpreted by some as evidence of a universe that was once much hotter and denser, not necessarily as evidence of expansion.
  
  
• Alternative Theories:
  Some researchers propose mathematical models where the universe is actually static, and the effects we interpret as expansion are due to other phenomena, such as the evolution of particle masses over time.
  

3. Other Considerations:

• The Infinite Universe:
  Some argue that if the universe is infinite, it cannot expand because it is already everywhere.
  
  
• Finite Age vs. Expansion:
  The idea that the universe has a finite age, initially suggested by Hubble's observations, doesn't necessarily imply expansion.
  
  
• Hubble's Original Claim:
  Some argue that Hubble himself didn't claim the universe was expanding until the end of his life, and the claim is often misrepresented, according to one source.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

LMAO.

you made the assertion that universe is exopanding. What is your proof.

I say its not. Prove me wrong

you mean all living things have water in them? Hasn't that been centuries before quran?

you are admitting quran is either useless non-sense or plagiarised stuff?

Have you stopped my wife? Instead of rambling, give a straight answer.

@LordJames lol you were right, he is ducking now. All rambling and no proofs

 

[rpant_gabba]

@LordJames lol you were right, he is ducking now. All rambling and no proofs

yeah, you are the one who is running.

your statement

>>2. Or name living being not made of water.<<<

This is known long before quran.

Thus, quran is copied

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I can copy and paste too

1. Redshift Interpretation:

• Tired Light Theory:
  Some researchers suggest that the redshift observed in distant galaxies might not be due to the expansion of space, but rather the light losing energy as it travels through space, similar to how light tires.
  
  
• Einstein's Initial Belief:
  Initially, Einstein favored a static, unchanging universe and introduced the cosmological constant to his theory to accommodate that view. He later abandoned it after Hubble's observations seemed to indicate expansion.

2. Challenges to Expansion:

• Constant Surface Brightness:
  Observations of galaxies show that their surface brightness remains constant with distance, which would be expected in a non-expanding universe.
  
  
• Cosmic Microwave Background:
  The CMB, a key piece of evidence for the Big Bang, is interpreted by some as evidence of a universe that was once much hotter and denser, not necessarily as evidence of expansion.
  
  
• Alternative Theories:
  Some researchers propose mathematical models where the universe is actually static, and the effects we interpret as expansion are due to other phenomena, such as the evolution of particle masses over time.

3. Other Considerations:

• The Infinite Universe:
  Some argue that if the universe is infinite, it cannot expand because it is already everywhere.
  
  
• Finite Age vs. Expansion:
  The idea that the universe has a finite age, initially suggested by Hubble's observations, doesn't necessarily imply expansion.
  
  
• Hubble's Original Claim:
  Some argue that Hubble himself didn't claim the universe was expanding until the end of his life, and the claim is often misrepresented, according to one source.

Lol you are so dumb, instead read first what you are sharing

 

[The Bald Eagle]

yeah, you are the one who is running.

your statement

>>2. Or name living being not made of water.<<<

This is known long before quran.

Thus, quran is copied

Lol...no red herring....answer my questions....but but they have been answered before. Where was it first mentioned that cosmic world is ever expanding....reproduce the original source here.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Lol you are so dumb, instead read first what you are sharing

you are so gullible. careful about who words you choose to folllow

 

[The Bald Eagle]

yeah, you are the one who is running.

your statement

>>2. Or name living being not made of water.<<<

This is known long before quran.

Thus, quran is copied

Q:How did scientists first discover that the universe's expansion is accelerating?

Scientists first discovered the universe's accelerating expansion in 1998 by observing distant type Ia supernovae—stellar explosions that serve as "standard candles" due to their consistent intrinsic brightness56. Two independent teams, the Supernova Cosmology Project and the High-Z Supernova Search Team, found that these supernovae appeared dimmer and more redshifted than expected, indicating they were farther away than predicted if the universe's expansion was slowing down356. This surprising result showed that the expansion rate was actually increasing, not decreasing as previously thought, leading to the conclusion that a mysterious force—later called dark energy—was driving the acceleration356. The discovery earned the leaders of these teams the Nobel Prize in Physics46.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Lol...no red herring....answer my questions....but but they have been answered before. Where was it first mentioned that cosmic world is ever expanding....reproduce the original source here.

so you are giving up on the water claim?

 

[rpant_gabba]

Q:How did scientists first discover that the universe's expansion is accelerating?

Scientists first discovered the universe's accelerating expansion in 1998 by observing distant type Ia supernovae—stellar explosions that serve as "standard candles" due to their consistent intrinsic brightness56. Two independent teams, the Supernova Cosmology Project and the High-Z Supernova Search Team, found that these supernovae appeared dimmer and more redshifted than expected, indicating they were farther away than predicted if the universe's expansion was slowing down356. This surprising result showed that the expansion rate was actually increasing, not decreasing as previously thought, leading to the conclusion that a mysterious force—later called dark energy—was driving the acceleration356. The discovery earned the leaders of these teams the Nobel Prize in Physics46.

yup and that interpretation is being questioned by many experts, as I pointed out.

 

[Greenstorm]

Secular moral are superior, newton's science is better, Shakespeare literature is better

Always love when non believers use such terminologies and then cry about 'non merciful God'. Why do you believe in 'secular moral' ?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

so you are giving up on the water claim?

Why don't you ask your science religion to name me one just ONE living being not made from water...end of debate

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Always love when non believers use such terminologies and then cry about 'non merciful God'. Why do you believe in 'secular moral' ?

Lol he is gone now

 

[rpant_gabba]

Always love when non believers use such terminologies and then cry about 'non merciful God'. Why do you believe in 'secular moral' ?

you want to worship a god which drowned a whole world? go ahead.

don't call him moral or merciful

you worship a god who authorized slavery. is slavery moral in you book?

is torah also work of god? is moses also a prophet?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

you want to worship a god which drowned a whole world? go ahead.

don't call him moral or merciful

you worship a god who authorized slavery. is slavery moral in you book?

is torah also work of god? is moses also a prophet?

Lol ..so atleast you believe in a God now?

 

[rpant_gabba]

Why don't you ask your science religion to name me one just ONE living being not made from water...end of debate

Ok, so you admit that quran copies a lot on known stuff and presents it a seminal

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Ok, so you admit that quran copies a lot on known stuff and presents it a seminal

Ok so why your religion or follower scientists wasted their entire life in discovering something that was already there even before Holy Quran...

Won't you call it a stupidity then

 

[rpant_gabba]

Lol ..so atleast you believe in a God now?

logic is not strong point among muslims I see.

Discussing gods nature as described by believers is not believing in god. you have to be an brainless to think that

 

[Greenstorm]

you want to worship a god which drowned a whole world? go ahead.

don't call him moral or merciful

you worship a god who authorized slavery. is slavery moral in you book?

is torah also work of god? is moses also a prophet?

No need for idhr udhr ki baat.

My question remains, why do you believe in 'secular moral' if you are a non believer ?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@rpant_gabba have you run out of logical answers as rambling won't do you any good.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Ok so why your religion or follower scientists wasted their entire life in discovering something that was already there even before Holy Quran...

can you be more specific about the discovery?

Won't you call it a stupidity then

I'll call myself stupid for posting illogical garbage.

 

[rpant_gabba]

@rpant_gabba have you run out of logical answers as rambling won't do you any good.

???? whats in the video? it doesn't play.

bit like your assertions about quran

 

[The Bald Eagle]

????

Answer the QUESTIONS not red herring please.

Waiting in quene, myself, lord James and green storm. Thanks

 

[LordJames]

you are so gullible. careful about who words you choose to folllow

Guy is losing his head, can't keep it together

 

[The Bald Eagle]

can you be more specific about the discovery?

The Quran states, “We made every living thing from water” (Quran 21:30), highlighting water as the basis of life. Modern biology confirms that all living cells are mostly water, a fact only discovered after the invention of the microscope

 

[rpant_gabba]

Answer the QUESTIONS not red herring please.

Waiting in quene, myself, lord James and green storm. Thanks

do you even know what a red herring is?

here are your statements about quran and water.

>>2. Or name living being not made of water.<<<

humans have known every living thing has water in it centuries before. hell all you need to cut open a living thing and watch all livings things seek water and drink it.

are you implying this is all quran is good for.

no wonder muslim world is as backward as it is.

 

[rpant_gabba]

The Quran states, “We made every living thing from water” (Quran 21:30), highlighting water as the basis of life. Modern biology confirms that all living cells are mostly water, a fact only discovered after the invention of the microscope

LMAO. Guess you failed science class in high school.

That is an absolute nonsense claim

Which microscope are you referring to? Optical? SEM? TEM? AFM? STM?

 

[Greenstorm]

no we donl;t here are 4000+ religions inthew world. your is special. Prove it.

Secular moral are superior, newton's science is better, Shakespeare literature is better

What is so special about quran? make your case.

Looks like your only super power is editing posts secretively

No need for idhr udhr ki baat.

My question remains, why do you believe in 'secular moral' if you are a non believer ?

I will be waiting brother Gabba.

 

[sweep_shot]

Guy is losing his head, can't keep it together

These bhakts seem to be burning inside. You know they are losing it when they resort to petty insults.

 

[rpant_gabba]

No eed for idhr udhr ki baat.

My question remains, why do you believe in 'secular moral' if you are a non believer ?

I don't understand the question.

I don't believe in secular morals, I choose them over what is prescribed in religious books

I reject the idea of a god described in any of the religious texts.

I understand why you'd be confused, as religious belief is a metal illness.

 

[Greenstorm]

guess I touched raw nerve

Its all in your head brother .

I don't understand the question.

I don't believe in secular morals, I choose them over what is prescribed in religious books

I reject the idea of a god described in any of the religious texts.

I understand why you'd be confused, as religious belief is a metal illness.

Why do you choose to believe in something without any objective basis brother ?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

LMAO. Guess you failed science class in high school.

That is an absolute nonsense claim

Which microscope are you referring to? Optical? SEM? TEM? AFM? STM?

You need to learn English first, you have serious comprehension issues...and if you don't want to answer other questions (infact you can't ever answer) then instead of dilly dallying just stick to your expertises is chasing others for voting trump

 

[Suleiman]

Prophet Adam, Noah, Idris (Enoch), Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad and all other prophets between them peace and blessings upon them all are all prophets of Allah. We do not differentiate. They all came with Islam- which means to submit to God, regardless of what languages they spoke.

We do not insult any of them, and love them all. Peace be upon them all

 

[sweep_shot]

View attachment 153530

Prophet Adam, Noah, Idris (Enoch), Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad and all other prophets between them peace and blessings upon them all are all prophets of Allah. We do not differentiate. They all came with Islam- which means to submit to God, regardless of what languages they spoke.

We do not insult any of them, and love them all. Peace be upon them all

Correct.

Jesus (PBUH) is a great prophet in Islam. A Muslim cannot insult Jesus or any other prophet (peace be upon them all).

 

[rpant_gabba]

Its all in your head brother .

Why do you choose to believe in something without any objective basis brother ?

What do mean by believe? You don’t believe in “morals”. You either value them and practice it or you don’t. Belief doesn’t come into play. Belief is for existence of entities or events.

Not sure how anyone with half a brain can get it mixed up

 

[rpant_gabba]

You need to learn English first, you have serious comprehension issues...and if you don't want to answer other questions (infact you can't ever answer) then instead of dilly dallying just stick to your expertises is chasing others for voting trump

you need to buy yourself a couple of brain cells.

You made an assertion that it was first revealed in quran that water is part of a life forms.

That is false assertion and one that is easily disproven, as all liquid in ancient times was water based and all living things ooze out water based fluid when cut open. humans have been cutting open fruits and animals long before quran came by.

Ergo, quran is a filled with knowledge (may be it was new for the ignorant early muslims) known mankind for along time.

Then you brought microscope and asserted that no one knew there was water inside cells until microscope was invented. False again. Water molecule is 10000 times smaller than what an optical microscope can see.

I ask again which microscope are you talking about? can you provide a reference to the "discovery" you are talking about?

 

[HalBass9]

Has @uppercut replied to @LordJames?

Don’t let atheists Hindutva hijacked the thread.

 

[LordJames]

Has @uppercut replied to @LordJames?

Don’t let atheists Hindutva hijacked the thread.

Still waiting...

 

[Champ_Pal]

Jesus said No one gets to his father but through him. He called Yahweh is Father in heaven.
Islamic Isa is a completely different person to Christian Jesus.

 

[HalBass9]

Jesus said No one gets to his father but through him. He called Yahweh is Father in heaven.
Islamic Isa is a completely different person to Christian Jesus.

An atheist wouldn’t say “Jesus said”, they’d say “as Christians claim he said.” Big difference between quoting a belief and subscribing to it.

 

[Champ_Pal]

An atheist wouldn’t say “Jesus said”, they’d say “as Christians claim he said.” Big difference between quoting a belief and subscribing to it.

Christianity came 600 yrs before Islam. Their sources are the oldest.

 

[HalBass9]

Christianity came 600 yrs before Islam. Their sources are the oldest.

lol, okay.

Read the comment again, lol.

Oh wow, what a revelation! Up until now, we all thought Christianity was invented after the European Zionists started their genocide spree against Christians and Muslims. Thanks for setting the historical timeline straight, truly groundbreaking stuff. Lol

 

[Champ_Pal]

lol, okay.

Read the comment again, lol.

Oh wow, what a revelation! Up until now, we all thought Christianity was invented after the European Zionists started their genocide spree against Christians and Muslims. Thanks for setting the historical timeline straight, truly groundbreaking stuff. Lol

What a come back

 

[HalBass9]

What a come back

Comeback? Oh no, this wasn’t a comeback. This was your Pulitzer worthy revelation that Christianity came before Islam. Absolute bombshell. Up next, water is wet.

Anyway, don’t hijack the thread with your half baked hot takes.

 

[rpant_gabba]

An atheist wouldn’t say “Jesus said”, they’d say “as Christians claim he said.” Big difference between quoting a belief and subscribing to it.

That’s weak tea. Not helping your case when you resort to word play. To an atheist, all 4000+ religions are nothing more than fairy tales. Just saying Jesus said for convenience doesn’t make one xtian.

 

[HalBass9]

That’s weak tea. Not helping your case when you resort to word play. To an atheist, all 4000+ religions are nothing more than fairy tales. Just saying Jesus said for convenience doesn’t make one xtian.

Says the Hindutva atheist, too godless for religion, too brainwashed for reason. Pick a struggle.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Says the Hindutva atheist, too godless for religion, too brainwashed for reason. Pick a struggle.

We are brainwashed and you are the voice of reason

For me all religions are same. They have No case and no trial. Just straight up verdict. And the verdict is what I believe is absolute truth.

 

[Suleiman]

Says the Hindutva atheist, too godless for religion, too brainwashed for reason. Pick a struggle.

There are certain individuals who are genuine in their questions, and we have a discussion already ongoing in this thread with them.

And then others who want to stroke their fragile ego by trying to act above the belief in God, when they were nothing more than a white stain and will inevitably return to brown dirt in another few years or decades decaying into nothing and then the unseen will be accessible to them. Then their doubts will be answered but it will be too late.

They are the first to mock monotheism from their cushy homes but once that plane starts to go through turbulence they are also the first to start praying out of nowhere.

 

[uppercut]

What is abrogation in the Qur’aan?

This issue is discussed in detail in the paper linked here. I strongly encourage @uppercut and others interested in a serious discussion to read it thoroughly, dissect its arguments, and post meaningful objections if any. I’ll summarize the main point here, but I’m not reproducing the entire paper. If you wish to respond, please engage with the full material presented.

Abrogation in the Qur'aan: A Brief Clarification

Abrogation (naskh) in the Qur’an refers to the phenomenon where a later verse supersedes or modifies the ruling of an earlier verse—either partially or completely. This is not a contradiction, but rather an example of divine wisdom unfolding gradually for a society in transition.

One of the most well-known examples of this is the gradual prohibition of alcohol, which was implemented in a step-by-step manner. All three verses related to this issue remain in the Qur’an and are recited by Muslims—but their legal weight differs based on the chronology of revelation.

@LordJames

( Due to severe time constraints I will keep my response short and address the core part of your post quoted above )


You’ve now cited 16:101 (in defense of 2:106) and to justify abrogation as divine wisdom, but this creates serious logical contradictions.
If the Quran is the final, perfect revelation from an all-knowing God, why did it take over 20 years to deliver the full message? Why not reveal it all at once?

Verse 2:106 openly speaks of God nullifying or replacing verses and 16:101 doubles down on it, acknowledging that critics accused Muhammad of fabricating revelations. If even the Quran anticipates that replacing verses would look like human invention, that’s not a refutation. That’s a confirmation of the problem.

The Yaqeen article you referenced even gives examples like the gradual alcohol prohibition. That shows verses were revealed, softened, then overridden. That’s not divine clarity. That’s reactive governance — something expected from humans, not timeless divine decree from God himself.

And worst of all … there’s no authoritative list today of which verses were abrogated. That means modern readers are relying on later juristic human opinions, not a definitive, preserved roadmap from God himself.

Even the Sahih Bukhari in 6829 ( linked below) records a verse on stoning that was once part of the revelation but is no longer in the Quran despite being carried out by Muhammad and his companions. If a verse commanding capital punishment could disappear from the final scripture, how is this divine preservation?

And consider this: the first compiled Quran under Abu Bakr which was assembled within 2 years of Muhammad’s passing, did not even survive two decades. It had to be replaced under Uthman’s orders with a standardized version, and the original copies were burned which clearly implies issues with the first written version so serious that all copies of it had to be burned and new amendments ordered. That’s not divine consistency — that’s human course correction.

You can’t call the Quran eternal, complete, and unchanged … while also defending a process where verses were revealed, revised, revoked, or forgotten within two decades. That’s not divine precision. That’s doctrinal damage control.

Link: https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6829

 

[uppercut]

Still waiting...

As said before I do not have that kind of time luxury to read excruciatingly lengthy posts with even more lengthy articles embedded. If you prefer quick responses you need to shorted your replies considerably. ( for example see my previous post )

 

[Greenstorm]

What do mean by believe? You don’t believe in “morals”. You either value them and practice it or you don’t. Belief doesn’t come into play. Belief is for existence of entities or events.

Not sure how anyone with half a brain can get it mixed up

Nice try at deflection with semantics. So you don't believe in 'secular moral', you 'choose' it. Got it. May I ask why do you choose them ? Is there any objective basis for 'choosing' such an important aspect of life ?

 

[LordJames]

As said before I do not have that kind of time luxury to read excruciatingly lengthy posts with even more lengthy articles embedded. If you prefer quick responses you need to shorted your replies considerably. ( for example see my previous post )

@uppercut Shenanigans Summarized

@uppercut asked for Discussion and here is his statement:

This is not entirely true but please let me know if you are interested in a serious facts and logic based discussion.

Jay Smith Statements Video by @uppercut (1st Argument by @uppercut)

See post here

1. @uppercut unable to standby his own posts:

My 1st question to ask about the exact time of the video (@uppercut replied & apologized for not being clear)

1. My 2nd attempt at trying to summarize (@uppercut obfuscates)
2. My 3rd attempt at asking him to standby his arguments (@uppercut obfuscates)
3. My 4th attempt at at asking him to agree with the summary and standby his arguments
4. My 5th attempt at the same issue, agree with the summary and standby arguments
5. My 6th attempt...
6. And so on and so forth...

My response and @uppercut drops the issue and pretends like he never posted Jay Smith:

1. My Arguments are detailed and evidence provided
2. 2-3 of my arguments are also broken down and summarized

@uppercut doesn't answer a single query, doesn't respond but changes the topic.

2nd Argument by @uppercut)

1. Drops the first argument entirely
2. Doesn't answer anything
3. Changes the topic and poses a different argument

Read here

My response to 2nd argument by @uppercut

3rd Argument by @uppercut)

1. Drops the 2nd argument fully (but unlike the 1st one) at least tries
2. Answers selectively

( Due to severe time constraints I will keep my response short and address the core part of your post quoted above )

And says:

As said before I do not have that kind of time luxury to read excruciatingly lengthy posts with even more lengthy articles embedded. If you prefer quick responses you need to shorted your replies considerably. ( for example see my previous post )

As I said before I don't do knee jerk reactions, I am going to dissect every comma, every period in what @uppercut I am going to pay attention and then I am going to take the time and respond and where I am wrong will be happy to admit.

What I will not do is to be dictated by someone who asked me to discuss to respond according to his request. @uppercut asked for:

1. a serious
2. facts and
3. logic based discussion.

I believe that when a person asks for a discussion then we will have a discussion and I will give it my undivided attention even when the argument is as STUPID as this!

If the Quran is the final, perfect revelation from an all-knowing God, why did it take over 20 years to deliver the full message? Why not reveal it all at once?

Why the argument of @uppercut is STUPID, just 1 point

1. He is claiming that the Quran today is changed from 1400+ years ago because preservation didn't happen
2. Whether 114 chapters were revealed in 1 go OR over 23 years gradually, his argument of preservation equally applies to the volume of Quraan (1 go or 23 years, the issue of preservation is the same) and that's how dumb this argument is

IF he would have made the argument in isolation to say "Why didn't God reveal the whole of Qur'aan in 1 go instead of over 23 years, it would have been an issue" but because his argument is preservation it is a dumb argument.

Btw I am not calling @uppercut stupid, I am calling his argument stupid.

What is @uppercut doing? Whats his strategy? Whats his game plan?

It is clear to me (from past experience) that @uppercut doesn't know this subject all. His strategy is classic Islamophobe (or Hidutva game plan) to throw mud and lets see what sticks to the wall and run with it, not saying that its intentional but he is following it by copy/pasting whatever comes to his head and hoping to get away with it.

As I said, will read, dissect and respond to it too.