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The death of Pakistan's fast bowling legacy?

Junaid and Talha are trundlers as well, with zero ponies. Might as well take the one.

I like Wahab Riaz btw.
 
We are on a decline just like India

Even india isnt producing batsman with decent techniques
 
You under-rate Junaid too much man. He has been bowling really well in the match. I say that because i saw it.

I never rated Wahab much because of his spray gun antics but now as we have waqar back i have hopes that he will come back strong.
 
Lol, Rahane says hi. Pujara has fantastic technique as well, but he can't score a 100 every match. Kohli has plenty to prove in Tests, but he's a great in ODIs already so that is more than something he can build on.
 
Don't think I'm underrating him, I believe he is a very ordinary bowler.
 
Alchemy said:
Yep. Their next tendulkar is a sitting duck in test matches.
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Yup everyone is expecting that we will produce bowlers like wasim , waqar , akhtar , imran again and again we have just lost two great bowlers one was said to be successor of wasim and other successor of mcgrath.

Apart form kohli how many batsman India have produced in recent times ?
 
Pujara and Rahane are miles better than every single batsman we have produced in the last decade.
 
Mamoon said:
Lol, Rahane says hi. Pujara has fantastic technique as well, but he can't score a 100 every match. Kohli has plenty to prove in Tests, but he's a great in ODIs already so that is more than something he can build on.
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Rahane and Pujara are good but are you sure that they can be compared to the likes of Sachin , dravid , laxman ?
 
Of course not yet, but if any young batsman today has the potential to be one day, they are the ones.
 
Mamoon said:
Lol, Rahane says hi. Pujara has fantastic technique as well, but he can't score a 100 every match. Kohli has plenty to prove in Tests, but he's a great in ODIs already so that is more than something he can build on.
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Pujara or Chepu as some indian posters call him has shown very limited capability. That is that he is unable to accelerate the innings at will cueing his ODI performance. He fails miserably in LOIs when he tries to be aggressive which is against his natural instinct. He has been disappointing in the english tour as well till now. However, i agree that Pujara got talent but he is no way fantastic. That is too big of a word.

Rahane is a really good player. I will give him that but the sample size is really small and we have yet to see how he performs in the Aussie tour. But then again, having one or two good players in the team is not sufficent for a team which heavily relies on good batsmen.
 
razabbas said:
Yup everyone is expecting that we will produce bowlers like wasim , waqar , akhtar , imran again and again we have just lost two great bowlers one was said to be successor of wasim and other successor of mcgrath.

Apart form kohli how many batsman India have produced in recent times ?
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Agreed. Amir and especially Asif's loss in my imo has really hit Pakistan but the future is bright with prospects like Shinwari, Raza, zia ul haq in the ranks.
 
If a Pakistani upcoming young batsman scores double hundreds vs England and Australia and a 150+ in SA, this forum will crash and you'd be the first one to call him the next Bradman.

Lets not kid ourselves.

Look at the hype Shehzad is getting after a few ODI hundreds. Pujara is a top class Test batsman and India are blessed to have him.
 
Alchemy said:
Agreed. Amir and especially Asif's loss in my imo has really hit Pakistan but the future is bright with prospects like Shinwari, Raza, zia ul haq in the ranks.
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Groom them thats it.Our selectors should learn from BCCI when it comes to selection just before WC they have given chance to youngster like Sanju samon becuase they know there is something special in him

I do believe that junaid , irfan , wahab and ajmal will be the best bowling attack for us in WC 2015 we just need one opener maybe they can try sami aslam or fakhar zaman because no choice is left now or maybe they can try maqsood as an opener. he is better then nasir and sharjeel and should be in the playing XI instead of warming bench
 
Mamoon said:
If a Pakistani upcoming young batsman scores double hundreds vs England and Australia and a 150+ in SA, this forum will crash and you'd be the first one to call him the next Bradman.

Lets not kid ourselves.

Look at the hype Shehzad is getting after a few ODI hundreds. Pujara is a top class Test batsman and India are blessed to have him.
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Yup he played really well in Southafrica but since then what he have done in NZL and England ? even shafiq scored a century in SA and once again against SA in UAE
 
Mamoon said:
If a Pakistani upcoming young batsman scores double hundreds vs England and Australia and a 150+ in SA, this forum will crash and you'd be the first one to call him the next Bradman.

Lets not kid ourselves.

Look at the hype Shehzad is getting after a few ODI hundreds. Pujara is a top class Test batsman and India are blessed to have him.
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I think you didnt read my post properly. Pujara is a good batsmen but limited thus not fantastic.
 
Shafiq hasn't batted half as well as Pujara has anywhere and Pujara has proven his class and temparament against quality teams so there is little to worry there. Unfortunately, our young batsmen and young bowlers have dome arguably nothing of note so there is little to be excited about.
 
razabbas said:
Groom them thats it.Our selectors should learn from BCCI when it comes to selection just before WC they have given chance to youngster like Sanju samon becuase they know there is something special in him

I do believe that junaid , irfan , wahab and ajmal will be the best bowling attack for us in WC 2015 we just need one opener maybe they can try sami aslam or fakhar zaman because no choice is left now or maybe they can try maqsood as an opener. he is better then nasir and sharjeel and should be in the playing XI instead of warming bench
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I would love if they give sami aslam a chance. That would be just great.
 
If Pujara is not fantastic, I wonder who is. He's one of the best young Test batsman in the world. Yes he's limited, but not every batsman is versatile.

Dravid was also limited compared to Tendulkar, Ponting and Lara etc while Younis Khan is as limited as a batsman can be. He's rubbish in every format barring Tests.
 
Sami Aslam is not fluent and dynamic enough, his strike rotation is as poor as Shehzad's. Babar is a proper and real batsman.
 
Mamoon said:
If Pujara is not fantastic, I wonder who is. He's one of the best young Test batsman in the world. Yes he's limited, but not every batsman is versatile.

Dravid was also limited compared to Tendulkar, Ponting and Lara etc while Younis Khan is as limited as a batsman can be. He's rubbish in every format barring Tests.
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Going by your this reply which i call as correct, Pujara is the next Younis khan albeit for India.
 
Pujara is not tested in ODIs yet, personally I think he will be a similar ODI batsman to Dravid - very good, but not fantastic and exceptional.

Younis is garbage in ODIs and I don't expect Pujara to follow his path however, with India having so many dynamic batsmen, it might be difficult for Pujara to get a good run in ODIs because he will never be as good in ODIs as Kohli and Rahane. The latter is struggling at the moment but its only a matter of time before he succeeds as an opener.
 
Don't worry someone will pop up, Very impressed with the likes of Adil and zia-ul-haq also Irfanullah shah 6'5 Beast of bannu is another to look out for.
 
Alchemy said:
[MENTION=131701]

Pakistan has the fourth best pace attack
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Pakistan has one pacer in top 50 and that bowler is ranked at 17th.

Eng, NZ, SA and Aus have 2 or more bowlers ranked in top 15. All four nations have better pace attack.

In the test format, I think Pakistan's pace attack is at the same level as WI. WI has Roach and Pakistan has Junaid. No other name comes to my mind for both countries. So joint 5th/6th with WI. You could put them in any order.

-------------------

On topic: I think due to passion for fast bowling in Pakistan, some good young bowlers will come pretty soon. Pakistan generally comes up with good fast bowlers. In middle, they had two but unfortunately both decided to fix.
 
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Buffet said:
Pakistan has one pacer in top 50 and that bowler is ranked at 17th.

Eng, NZ, SA and Aus have 2 or more bowlers ranked in top 15. All four nations have better pace attack.

In the test format, I think Pakistan's pace attack is at the same level as WI. WI has Roach and Pakistan has Junaid. So joint 5th/6th with WI. You could put them in any order.
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At the moment yes, but I expect us to go up in around a year or so.Around 3-4 is where we should be with Aus and SA being the top two.
 
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Arsal_AK said:
At the moment yes, but I expect us to go up in around a year or so.Around 3-4 is where we should be with Aus and SA being the top two.
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Ideally you guys should be in the top 3, not below that. I am saying that based on history.
 
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We lost a potential ATG in Asif (I wouldn't say Amir yet as his sample size is not big enough) after which we can't expect to churn out quality bowlers we were bound to experience a low moment (came too early as Asif and Amir decided to try something else).

During which we've churned out 3rd seamers in Junaid , Irfan etc or just average bowlers like Rahat (bit harsh to call him average but he doesn't have the mental fortitude to survive at the top), Talha etc. Who were to play under the shadow of Asif and Amir who broke a nice chain that was developing and these 3rd seamers /average bowlers are being made to look worse than they are as it's unfortunate they can't perform the role they should have rather they are forced to perform the role they were supposed to work under. That is what happened imo.

Now we'll just have to wait it out, could be a long wait this time.
 
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Just finished watching the highlights and have to admit I was quite disappointed at Adil pace. I was so excited to see a new fast bowler from Pakistan but once the reality hit me that he is another trundler it was quite a let down. Anyways any new genuine Fast bowler from Pakistan to keep an eye out for? I have heard Sadaf name a lot please tell me he is phaast and not another 130kmh trundler?
 
BlackThunder said:
Just finished watching the highlights and have to admit I was quite disappointed at Adil pace. I was so excited to see a new fast bowler from Pakistan but once the reality hit me that he is another trundler it was quite a let down. Anyways any new genuine Fast bowler from Pakistan to keep an eye out for? I have heard Sadaf name a lot please tell me he is phaast and not another 130kmh trundler?
Click to expand...

I already told you that Adil is not pacy. His accuracy, line and length are strong points. He is a thinking bowler and relies mostly on seam-movement.

Sadaf is another guy who relies on swing. Lack of pace is probably the reason why he isn't selected so far.

Mir Hamza is a good talent. He can move the ball both ways and is quite nippy. Not express pace though.

The only express pace bowlers we have right now would be Sami, Wahab & Irfan. Amir when he comes back as well.
 
Ahson Afzal said:
I already told you that Adil is not pacy. His accuracy, line and length are strong points. He is a thinking bowler and relies mostly on seam-movement.

Sadaf is another guy who relies on swing. Lack of pace is probably the reason why he isn't selected so far.

Mir Hamza is a good talent. He can move the ball both ways and is quite nippy. Not express pace though.

The only express pace bowlers we have right now would be Sami, Wahab & Irfan. Amir when he comes back as well.
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Adil seems like he will do quite well on pitches with assistant. But I don't think he will be threat in subcontinent against decent teams. He is also a test only bowler trying him in ODI's might be risky due to lack of pace and predictable line and lenght. By the sound of it Mir Hamza sounds more promising than Sadaf lets see how he pans out.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
Guys just be patient. You will find them.

ATG batsmen are more common than ATG bowlers.

You guys just lost 2 potential ATG bowlers.

Pak always had a few ATG bowlers along with a bunch of mediocre bowlers.

It was never like the Windies of 80's where bench bowlers would make it to the main XI of any team.
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But that Windies phase didn't lasted, which is proof that greats don't happen everyday.
 
BlackThunder said:
Just finished watching the highlights and have to admit I was quite disappointed at Adil pace. I was so excited to see a new fast bowler from Pakistan but once the reality hit me that he is another trundler it was quite a let down. Anyways any new genuine Fast bowler from Pakistan to keep an eye out for? I have heard Sadaf name a lot please tell me he is phaast and not another 130kmh trundler?
Click to expand...

BlackThunder said:
Adil seems like he will do quite well on pitches with assistant. But I don't think he will be threat in subcontinent against decent teams. He is also a test only bowler trying him in ODI's might be risky due to lack of pace and predictable line and lenght. By the sound of it Mir Hamza sounds more promising than Sadaf lets see how he pans out.
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Actually Ehsan was bowling in the 135-140kph range for most of the match. He only dropped to 130kph around half way through day 2, which is understandable. I'd expect him to be quicker in the ODIs. He would be a decent ODI bowler because he has really good control, and he's quite intelligent and he can swing the ball. He will be even better on pitches with assistance, he's bowled well here too. He's only 21, so I expect him to gain some pace.

Sadaf is just another 125kph trundler. Mark my words, if he gets selected, he wont be very effective unless it's an absolute green top. As [MENTION=70365]Ahson Afzal[/MENTION] said, Mir Hamza seems like a much better choice, he seems a bit quicker than Sadaf, and he's young, so he'll get quicker.
 
Gone are the days when pakistan used to produce WC fast bowlers , now its down to trundlers to save our day :pk
 
JibranAnsari said:
Gone are the days when pakistan used to produce WC fast bowlers , now its down to trundlers to save our day :pk
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Junaid, Riaz and Irfan. Our first choice pacers until Amir returns are in no way, trundlers.

Do people expect even our 3rd choice pace attack to be World Class?
 
Bilal7 said:
Junaid, Riaz and Irfan. Our first choice pacers until Amir returns are in no way, trundlers.

Do people expect even our 3rd choice pace attack to be World Class?
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indeed this trio is our first choice but they are no way near to world class level
 
mishandling of young fast bowlers by captains & team management and the other main reason what I think is

Sarfaraz taught Imran

Imran taught wasim/waqar

wasim/waqar taught....... I think shoaib

indeed waqar is our bowling coach but he is not a talent spotter IMO.

but it will be good if he bring someone from dust
 
Its a depressing thought but with these trundlers representing us one after the other I see no hope for the future as far as fast bowling is concern. One can only hope that Aamir is even a 3rd of what he was before getting banned.
 
Pakistan needs to have a serious look into its first class cricket. This is some rapid deterioration for a Test playing nation as far as pace bowling is concerned. It was hard to differentiate if I was watching Pak bowlers or Bangla, Zimbabwe etc.
 
This is genuinely death. I dont see us coming back. I'm an optimist by nature but this is just shocking...
I'm lost for words after such a beating....
 
Quite sad honestly... never seen a Pakistani attack being this easy to smash about.
 
Pakistan in crisis ... yet again. All the preparation and investments have been for nothing.

Can something be done to save our blushes? Will Mickey recall some older fast bowlers?

How can I trust Wahab Riaz who was murdered on the same wickets against Kohli and co?
 
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