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The disparity between Mohammad Amir's pace across all three formats of international cricket

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Sean143

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Since his comeback Amir has been bowling in the high 140s in T20Is,130s in ODI's while in Test matches he was hovering around 120s.
I think the workload on the body is telling (he has bowled almost 900 overs in International Cricket since his comeback).
What do you thing is the reason of disparity in his pace across the 3 formats?
 
Doesn't have the strength, heart or character when the going gets tough.
 
Savak said:
Doesn't have the strength, heart or character when the going gets tough.
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He should be like Akhtar, become obsessed with speed and run himself into the ground. Also, show up to India tournament games with his pants down like Akhtar.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Stamina issues I guess. Bowling 17 overs a day at a high average pace is not easy for anyone especially if you were out for 6 years. He bowled quick in Australia but I guess it's pointless exerting yourself too much in the UAE heat.
 
He probably knows that in T20s he only has 4 overs so can give it his all. Maybe in ODI's + Tests he believes he has to be less quick as he has to save himself. Bad attitude if that's the reason.
 
Well tests in the UAE there is no point in bowling all out on those rubbish outfields and where the pitches don't offer much. In ODIs he shouldn't be bowling so slowly.
 
All pace bowlers have a lower average speed in tests than LOIs.
 
I believe he lost a lot of heart and encouragement after what he did in 2010.
 
Similar to a lot our players in the T20 format, Amir becomes beastly.
 
Hitman said:
I believe he lost a lot of heart and encouragement after what he did in 2010.
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Agree, he turned out not to be the same Amir, but , still our best ATM, better than Hasan across all formats. Shaheen Afridi might be the one we're looking for in near future, lets hope.
 
Sean143 said:
Since his comeback Amir has been bowling in the high 140s in T20Is,130s in ODI's while in Test matches he was hovering around 120s.
I think the workload on the body is telling (he has bowled almost 900 overs in International Cricket since his comeback).
What do you thing is the reason of disparity in his pace across the 3 formats?
Click to expand...

Most bowlers will have the same trend. That's hardly an issue. Issue is the only the bold part.
 
I respectfully disagree with this thread.

His speeds in the ODI series were outstanding. He was consistently clocking 140+ and gad several spells where he clocked 144 consistently, with one ball delivered at 149 and another 3 at 147
 
He clocks 122-135 kph in Tests, clocks same speeds in the second spell on ODI format. Does'nt bring the ball in the right hander anymore and bowled length defensive lines which helped NZ top 3 to take the odi series away from us. Bowls mostly cross seam varying his line and length. He has been a dud when it comes to swing or seam in the NZ series. Only his pace increases to 142-146 kph in t20. He is not very old he is in his prime age. He is taking advantage of being an automatic selection same as what Shoaib Melik or Hafeez are doing.

There is a simple solution for it, retain him in the T20 and drop him from odi and test format. He himself asking for it.

I believe our test bowler Abbas, domestic players, Mir Hamza, Sadaf and Sohail Khan will bowl with more speed for longer period and swing the new ball in the test format.
 
Then we need to manage the workload of our bowlers.. Why are we playing the same bowlers across all formats?? Akir and Hasan Ali should only important games and for roads such as UAE we need to try new bowlers every now and then..
 
Hamstead_joy said:
He clocks 122-135 kph in Tests, clocks same speeds in the second spell on ODI format. Does'nt bring the ball in the right hander anymore and bowled length defensive lines which helped NZ top 3 to take the odi series away from us. Bowls mostly cross seam varying his line and length. He has been a dud when it comes to swing or seam in the NZ series. Only his pace increases to 142-146 kph in t20. He is not very old he is in his prime age. He is taking advantage of being an automatic selection same as what Shoaib Melik or Hafeez are doing.

There is a simple solution for it, retain him in the T20 and drop him from odi and test format. He himself asking for it.

I believe our test bowler Abbas, domestic players, Mir Hamza, Sadaf and Sohail Khan will bowl with more speed for longer period and swing the new ball in the test format.
Click to expand...
Have you seen Mir Hamza bowl? I refuse to believe anyone can consider Mir Hamza for an international stint based on what he's seen. The guy is the definition of a trundler. Got taken apart mercilessly in the PSL. Ghulam Mudassar looked a different class to Mir Hamza, and he's nowhere near an international call-ups right now.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Have you seen Mir Hamza bowl? I refuse to believe anyone can consider Mir Hamza for an international stint based on what he's seen. The guy is the definition of a trundler. Got taken apart mercilessly in the PSL. Ghulam Mudassar looked a different class to Mir Hamza, and he's nowhere near an international call-ups right now.
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Please check Hamza bowling performance playing against England Lions, in England 2016 how he moves the new bowl. He would be great for Pakistan for our upcoming tour to England
 
Btw in todayt20, another culprit Rumman Raees also bowled 140.9 full yorked delivery on 17.1 overs. With the new bowl I did'nt see him bowl more than 134. To underbowl in odi format is spreading from Amir to others also.
 
Hamstead_joy said:
Please check Hamza bowling performance playing against England Lions, in England 2016 how he moves the new bowl. He would be great for Pakistan for our upcoming tour to England
Click to expand...
I'm going by what I have seen. Mir Hamza is ordinary and no way is he better than the current lot we have. The issue with the current pacers we have is that they have had a steady diet of meaningless league cricket, and their long-term format skills are receding for some reason.
 
One of a couple of things:

fitness issues and a lack of stamina
or
bowling within himself in Test cricket

Both are concerning.
 
Hamstead_joy said:
He clocks 122-135 kph in Tests, clocks same speeds in the second spell on ODI format. Does'nt bring the ball in the right hander anymore and bowled length defensive lines which helped NZ top 3 to take the odi series away from us. Bowls mostly cross seam varying his line and length. He has been a dud when it comes to swing or seam in the NZ series. Only his pace increases to 142-146 kph in t20. He is not very old he is in his prime age. He is taking advantage of being an automatic selection same as what Shoaib Melik or Hafeez are doing.

There is a simple solution for it, retain him in the T20 and drop him from odi and test format. He himself asking for it.

I believe our test bowler Abbas, domestic players, Mir Hamza, Sadaf and Sohail Khan will bowl with more speed for longer period and swing the new ball in the test format.
Click to expand...

These guys are mother of all trundlers, might as well not play test cricket. They ca hardly bowl 80 MPH, why you want to load team team with such a crap...

Amir's Avg pace is Test 135-138(85 MPH), LOI 142(88-90 MPH), T2o 145-146(92-93) MPH...

Test is a concern , he does not have stamina to bowl 20 overs a day with 90 MPH. On technique side, his length is defensive, which is a major concern, is it management plan or his own or both, need to be addressed pretty soon, cannot keep going with this length for long...

His Bowling plans are geared for defending totals, when you have runs on board or confidence that we can score. Teams see him off, but when they have no choice, he gets wickets and dominate. Its not entirely useless, but then you need 2-3 Amir to make this deadly attack, one will not be effective. If he was playing for ENG, who are always confident of scoring, he can top 5 bowler in the world with current strategy in LOIs. But Pakistan ATM seldom scors (3/10), his performance is reflection of that as well...
 
People keep overlooking the fact that his fitness is a problem. I've been saying this for as long as I have seen him and he's not improved much at all fitness wise.

You look at other around especially left armers like Boult, Starc their body looks one of a fast bowler and is much more bigger than Amir.

His overall pace has been going down and has not been what it was pre-ban as he was in high 140's and could get it more than that too.

Fitness plays a big part in players achieving more than what they can after all it's an essential part of a sportsman to be at peak fitness wise as much as they can with their body and strength.
 
I don’t know tbh. This was the fastest he has bowled consistent since his comeback. Would be interested to see how he bowls next.
Comparisons to Akhtar are laughable: after all, not everyone gets to have a ‘birth defect’ that allows their chucking to not look like chucking
 
moghul said:
Agree, he turned out not to be the same Amir, but , still our best ATM, better than Hasan across all formats. Shaheen Afridi might be the one we're looking for in near future, lets hope.
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Watching him bowl before and after the ban has been like watching two different bowlers. Back before the ban he was so lively giving his best every time he ran up to bowl. BTW, I think Hasan Ali is the best ODI bowler in the world at the moment.
 
Deewana Mastana said:
People keep overlooking the fact that his fitness is a problem. I've been saying this for as long as I have seen him and he's not improved much at all fitness wise.

You look at other around especially left armers like Boult, Starc their body looks one of a fast bowler and is much more bigger than Amir.

His overall pace has been going down and has not been what it was pre-ban as he was in high 140's and could get it more than that too.

Fitness plays a big part in players achieving more than what they can after all it's an essential part of a sportsman to be at peak fitness wise as much as they can with their body and strength.
Click to expand...

Boult has been smashed by our poor batters in this series.
Amir was way quicker and better in this T20 series.
 
Mobashir said:
Boult has been smashed by our poor batters in this series.
Amir was way quicker and better in this T20 series.
Click to expand...
This thread is about his lack of pace and I've mentioned the two left armers who are physically much stronger than him. That is it.
 
Deewana Mastana said:
People keep overlooking the fact that his fitness is a problem. I've been saying this for as long as I have seen him and he's not improved much at all fitness wise.

You look at other around especially left armers like Boult, Starc their body looks one of a fast bowler and is much more bigger than Amir.

His overall pace has been going down and has not been what it was pre-ban as he was in high 140's and could get it more than that too.

Fitness plays a big part in players achieving more than what they can after all it's an essential part of a sportsman to be at peak fitness wise as much as they can with their body and strength.
Click to expand...

Fitness is one thing he lacks. But pre ban Amir used to move the ball both ways and even get reverse swing with the old ball. Have seen none of that from him in his comeback.
 
Its difficult to hit a pacey bowler like him in T20s. Today was a fine example of that. Ross was toying with medium brigade and wasn't able to get bat on ball during his over. That is why he usually bowls faster in T20s. Even before that, batsmen just play him quietly hoping for a odd bad ball.

In Tests and ODIs, you can't maintain speed and accuracy for long. We got a scattergun Wahab doing that. Amir is more on the accuracy side for these two formats and relies on cutters/off-seamers to nibble the ball around.

His lack of swing is the worrying part for me. Even in places where others are swinging it big, he's hardly able to do so. Maybe because of his defensive length.
 
moghul said:
Agree, he turned out not to be the same Amir, but , still our best ATM, better than Hasan across all formats. Shaheen Afridi might be the one we're looking for in near future, lets hope.
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Lol, what? Amir a better OD bowler than Hasan? What a joke.
 
He should be bowling at 150 for his age.

My main concern is he isn't even swinging the ball.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Amir has never been a 150ks bowler. People forget he was bowling 80-82 mph in that England series 2010. His pace is alright, the problem is with his length.
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150ks meaning top pace. People also keep forgetting that be bowled 145k-150k spells in Australia.

And no he was not bowling 80-82. It was 83-87. He varied his pace even as a young bowler. He understands flat out pace is not effective everywhere. In England, you have to cut on pace and maximize revs on the ball to fully exploit the lateral movement The Dukes offers.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
150ks meaning top pace. People also keep forgetting that be bowled 145k-150k spells in Australia.

And no he was not bowling 80-82. It was 83-87. He varied his pace even as a young bowler. He understands flat out pace is not effective everywhere. In England, you have to cut on pace and maximize revs on the ball to fully exploit the lateral movement The Dukes offers.
Click to expand...

Why isn’t he currently swinging anything?
 
Chief Destroyer said:
150ks meaning top pace. People also keep forgetting that be bowled 145k-150k spells in Australia.

And no he was not bowling 80-82. It was 83-87. He varied his pace even as a young bowler. He understands flat out pace is not effective everywhere. In England, you have to cut on pace and maximize revs on the ball to fully exploit the lateral movement The Dukes offers.
Click to expand...
I was talking about his average speed. Vividly remember that series, specially that five wicket haul at The Oval. Bowled well within himself to make use of that Dukes ball, and reaped the rewards.

He was quick even on the recent Australian tour. Specially in the 2nd ODI, where he partnered with Junaid for the first time in his career. Contrary to popular belief, his fitness and pace are minor concerns. The fact that he is bowling short 80% of the time is a massive issue for a bowler of his skill.
 
Usman Chadda said:
I was talking about his average speed. Vividly remember that series, specially that five wicket haul at The Oval. Bowled well within himself to make use of that Dukes ball, and reaped the rewards.

He was quick even on the recent Australian tour. Specially in the 2nd ODI, where he partnered with Junaid for the first time in his career. Contrary to popular belief, his fitness and pace are minor concerns. The fact that he is bowling short 80% of the time is a massive issue for a bowler of his skill.
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Yes, it's frustrating to watch. A bowler of his control and skill would beat the batsmen through the gate more often than they would hit him if he started targeting the stumps like Hasan does. It's a mindset thing. Young Amir was hungry for wickets and used to attack relentlessly because he wanted to solidify his spot. Now he's become too casual because no one apart from Hasan is a threat to his spot. Now he just bowls more defensive because the current kookaburra doesn't offer much swing so he's not willing to take chances.

What he doesn't realize is that you can still take wickets without swing because of the large gap all these inept LOI batsmen leave which Hasan has been exploiting. But you have to be daring enough to take a hit or two before earning that wicket.
 
Savak said:
Fitness is one thing he lacks. But pre ban Amir used to move the ball both ways and even get reverse swing with the old ball. Have seen none of that from him in his comeback.
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He can't swing it much at all anymore. He also bowls much wider of the crease than he used to pre-ban. He needs to get closer to the stumps to try and get the swing back.
 
Had a good T20 series but in ODI rankings he's dropped 5 places to 31st
 
90MPH said:
But thankfully he regained it on June 18th 2017.
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even ishant sharma or zim bowlers can defend 350 on board. The fact that you keep harping to this shows how much you yourself believe he has fallen. Thankfully irfan pathan and ishant sharma are legends and all time best as they won world cup and CT finals respectively.
 
He should focus on T20s and Odd ODIs because he simply is not good enough for tests
 
Indiafan said:
even ishant sharma or zim bowlers can defend 350 on board. The fact that you keep harping to this shows how much you yourself believe he has fallen. Thankfully irfan pathan and ishant sharma are legends and all time best as they won world cup and CT finals respectively.
Click to expand...
Interesting how the narrarive has changed from "India can chase down any total, bring it on!!" to "even Zimbabwean bowlers can defend a total of 350" within a few months. Indian fans are hilarious.
 
Pete Rose said:
I don’t know tbh. This was the fastest he has bowled consistent since his comeback. Would be interested to see how he bowls next.
Comparisons to Akhtar are laughable: after all, not everyone gets to have a ‘birth defect’ that allows their chucking to not look like chucking
Click to expand...

Interesting. Are you saying bowlers with hyperextension are chucking? :ajmal
 
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