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The fabulous Mr Zardari

^^
@1:35

Siasatdaan ki haysiat sey main sach bol raha hoon!!!!! :)))

PPP aur sach??? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

I stopped listening after that!
 
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W63L35 said:
^^
@1:35

Siasatdaan ki haysiat sey main sach bol raha hoon!!!!! :)))

PPP aur sach??? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

I stopped listening after that!
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do not trust Faisal, listen to Hamir Mir!


waqar_ahmad said:
You still have more patience than me. I saw his face, and didnt bother to listen
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you can minimize and listen...

if you do not want to see.

bottom line: corruption cases against Zardari were all made-up.
 
Black Zero said:
bottom line: corruption cases against Zardari were all made-up.
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Fatima Bhutto is also making up stories?
Justice Nizam Ahmad's family is also making up stories?

even if you forget corruption.....
 
Oh yes of course, all cases against the Clean zardari are fake. I dont need to watch anything to believe that coz I already do.

THis is exactly why I say that being a hardcore pipliya, and a zardari lover, isnt a political inclination, it's a disease
 
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W63L35 said:
Fatima Bhutto is also making up stories?
Justice Nizam Ahmad's family is also making up stories?

even if you forget corruption.....
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who is this fatima bhutto/justice nizam family?

so you do not believe hamid mir?
 
Black Zero said:
who is this fatima bhutto/justice nizam family?

so you do not believe hamid mir?
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When I have you .. as such a "truthful person" (that you don't know who Fatima Bhutto or Justice Nizam is ....) why should I have to look any further... to people like Hamid Mir?

http://alaiwah.wordpress.com/2009/05/23/fatima-bhutto-calls-zardari-her-fathers-murderer/

Fatima Bhutto Calls Zardari her Father’s Murderer - May 2009
Besides ruining my country, I believe my aunt's husband, Pakistani President Zardari, orchestrated my father’s murder. Is Obama really going to offer him billions more when they meet today?

Something rotten has arrived in Washington. Today, President Barack Obama will shake hands and stage Oval Office photo ops for the first time with the man who many believe stole billions from the Pakistani treasury, empowered Pakistan’s newly formed Taliban by imposing Shariah law without a vote or referendum, and whom I have publicly ccused of orchestrating the murder of my father, Murtaza Bhutto, an elected member of parliament until he was killed in 1996.
Pakistan has been at war with its own people for a long time now—perhaps it’s only natural that we move on to terrorizing the world at large.

My father was a vocal critic of both Pakistan’s former prime minister, Benazir Bhutto (his sister, my aunt), and her husband, current president Asif Zardari. He called Zardari and his cronies “Asif Baba and the 40 thieves,” and spoke out against the targeted killings of opposition members and activists by the state’s police and security forces. In the end, my father was slain in an extrajudicial assassination. The fact that he was seen, in a traditionally patriarchal society, as the heir to the Bhutto legacy didn’t make him any safer as Benazir’s second government began to lose power and international repute.

Now in Washington, the man who helped this happen will ask for money and the chance to cling to his dwindling power. Obama, in turn, will ask for results. That's going to be a problem. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has called the situation in my country a threat to universal peace. Richard Holbrooke, Obama’s special envoy for Pakistan, has said our government is capable of fighting terror, but he also calls the region “AfPak” so he's probably confused. President Obama hasn’t offered much of an opinion yet. He has noted that the civilian government has failed to provide its
citizens with the most basic services. But he’s also suggested that some hard cash might help the Zardari government through its problems. No, it won’t.

Pakistan has been at war with its own people for a long time now—given the daily politics of persecution that the state machinery inflicts on its own citizens, perhaps it’s only natural that we move on to terrorizing the world at large. The Taliban is waiting at the gates. They are making inroads into the Punjab, the heart of the country, slowly but steadily. Swat has fallen. Buner district is gone, airstrikes or no airstrikes. Now this government has to go. It’s either them or Pakistan.

President Zardari is a man with a colorful history. He is known by many endearing epithets here in Pakistan: Mr. 10 Percent (a reference to kickbacks), Mr. 50 Percent, the First Spouse (twice), and President Ghadari, or “traitor” in Urdu. I might not be the right person to tell his story, given that I believe he was involved in my father’s murder. But, then again, I just might be in the best position to warn President Obama about him.

Last summer, as an odious bill called the National Reconciliation Ordinance expunged from his prison record the four murder cases pending against him—Justice Nizam Ahmed and his young son Nadeem Ahmed and my father’s included—as well as various national and international corruption cases, Zardari prepared himself for power. He did so not only by wiping his criminal slate clean, but also by distancing himself from medical records that showed him to be “a man with multiple and severe physical and mental-health problems,” according to the Financial Times.


When Obama meets Zardari in Washington, he should remember that he is meeting not only with a dangerous man, but with an unelected official. Zardari never stood for elections in Pakistan. He has no constituency, no vote of support from the people, no democratic mandate. The “opposition,” the Pakistan Muslim League, is run by Zardari’s frenemy, Nawaz Sharif, also unelected—Pakistan, a nation of 180 million people, is at the mercy of two unelected men. President Obama has to decide this week whether he wants to foster democracy in Pakistan, or whether he wants to have a pliable government in power—a government, it bears noting, that is so inept it managed to grow a local Taliban.

Lest we forget, when Zardari took power last September, Pakistan didn’t have an indigenous Taliban. Now, a year into his rule, the Tehreek-e-Taliban not only exists in Pakistan, but controls the Northwest Frontier Province, frighteningly close to the Afghan border. The reason Pakistan’s government cannot fight the Taliban is not because Pakistan doesn’t have the money to fight terror. We do, plenty of it. By my last count, we’ve received some $12 billion in military aid over the last eight years. (It may not have gone where it was supposed to go, however. It might have ended up in someone’s Swiss bank account—no names, but we can guess.) And it’s not because Pakistanis are rabid fundamentalists elated by the arrival of an indigenous Taliban. That’s not it at all. Pakistan is a religiously diverse country—we have a history of Buddhist, Sikh, and Hindu heritage.

The reason is the leadership. It’s just not working. In the year that Zardari has been president, Pakistan has become a third front in the war on terror. We are not safer, our neighbors are not safer, and we have not made any strides toward fighting fundamentalism.

As much as America finds President Zardari repellent, we in Pakisan do, too. But you made him our president, and now you’re about to give him billions of dollars in aid. We cannot foster any democratic alternatives to Zardari while his government gets bucketloads of American money. Local activists, secular parties, and nascent opposition groups can’t fight that kind of money—it’s impossible to compete with a party that has access to billions of dollars. Pakistan is at a crossroads. We are either going to save our country from its descent into fundamentalism and lawlessness, or we are going to have Zardari as president, bolstered by American aid and support. The ball is in President Obama’s court today. Let’s hope he makes the right decision.

Fatima Bhutto is a graduate of Columbia University and the School of Oriental and African Studies. She is working on a book to be published by Jonathan Cape in 2010. Fatima lives and works in Karachi, Pakistan.
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Here is another one from 2009 for you ... BZ.. enjoy. Now, don't tell me you don't know who Mumtaz Bhutto is!
http://teeth.com.pk/blog/2009/04/02/i-told-you-so-by-mumtaz-ali-bhutto


I'll bump Malik thread for you to chill.


I Told You So
by Mumtaz Ali Bhutto
​

This article was sent via email claiming that it has been banned from publication in newspapers by the Zardari government, as it has issued directives to all news agencies preventing the publication of all articles by Sardar Mumtaz Ali Bhutto. His previous article Choas & Collapse was also prevented from going into print.

Readers will recall my repeated warnings that a man with Zardari’s reputation, who has no educational or political background and lacks all the other prerequisites of leadership, will be an absolute disaster in a minor office leave alone the top position in the country. This has proved to be true in the short period of six months leading to a nation wide upheaval. His claim to fame rests entirely on being the husband of Shaheed Benazir Bhutto and spending eight years in jail. Let us look at these laurels a bit closer: Shaheed Benazir, in her book “Daughter Of The East”, confesses to marrying him under relentless pressure from mother and aunts and his own perseverance in the face of repeated rejection, but hastens to add that there was no love or even affection involved. Of course it is also true that the last ten years of the marriage were spent in estrangement for reasons that are stated below. It is however surprising that she was unable to control him during her two terms in office when he went on a rampage for which he has acquired the internationally acclaimed and rather modest sobriquet of Mr. 10%. For the veracity of this epithet let us not depend on the bouquet of corruption cases against him even though two, the Surrey Palace and money laundering cases, in Jersey and Switzerland stand proved, but recall the laments of the people at large and even Jialas. Accepting the principal that there is no smoke without fire and the fact that before marriage, the Zardari family had nothing to show but a cinema house in Karachi, many questions arise about his lifestyle not only in the country but more so abroad. The internet discloses mansions and lands in various countries, twenty seven bank accounts and forty five off shore companies, the minimum value of which is placed at over two billion dollars and this does not include the cash balances in the twenty seven bank accounts, which remains unknown. More recently he took a plane load of people for Umra at a claimed personal cost of twenty five million rupees and has gifted five million rupees to his old school at Petaro. During these days of world wide economic collapse, when even international banks have been wiped out, for someone to throw money around in this manner indicates a huge reservoir of wealth. Added to the corruption cases are the four murder charges including that of Shaheed Mir Murtaza Bhutto, who was gunned downed by the police in broad day light, at a time when his sister was the Prime Minister of Pakistan. It is very significant that all the involved policemen have now been rewarded. All the above is a matter of record and cannot be concealed.

It is claimed that the two years he spent in jails and six in a luxury hospital in Islamabad are a sacrifice for the nation thereby establishing his claim to the highest offices in the country. No one cares that such a practice is extremely dangerous as it opens up the portals of power to murderers and thieves who sit in death rows or jails through out the country. Of course the beneficiaries of Zardari’s meteoric assent from purgatory to the presidency, albeit as a result of the murder of his wife, explain away that he was not convicted in the long period of ten years and is therefore innocent. Not quite so. It must not be concealed that he was not acquitted either and he and his cohorts have been reprieved only by the unconstitutional and immoral NRO . Besides in public life it is what the people believe and the disgrace that matters, not conviction. He was elected president on an indirect vote of assembly members who got a mandate to avenge the murder of Shaheed Benazir and provided Roti, Kapra, Makan ( they have done neither ) and not to elect Zardari. If even at the emotionally charged time of the polls this question had been put to the people the answer would definitely have been in the negative as the people hold Zardari guilty as charged and also responsible for the murder of his wife whose killers he professes to know. The belief is strengthened by the fact that no complaint has been filed in fifteen months which normally is a knee jerk reaction to even a petty crime leave alone murder of an international leader and mother of his children, in whose name he continues to thrive. In any case he has been convicted in the two cases cited above. As for the long duration of the trials, eight years is no big deal. We all know and speaking from personal experience, cases in our courts go on for ever. However the delay was compounded by Zardari himself who feigned mental illness, heart trouble and back pain (all of which have suddenly disappeared) to obstruct progress and conviction.

As for the distress of imprisonment, here too there is no cause for complaint he being most of the time ensconced in a luxury hospital where all the comforts of a five star hotel were available together with unrestricted visitors and frequent releases on parole with first class travel at government expenses. However it is also being said that he was kept in the hospital at Islamabad to facilitate accessibility to foreign and local intelligence agencies. It is reported that these agencies tutored and trained him for the role of being their man in the PPP. That he was released and sent abroad to join his wife when he was deemed ready to effectively play his part. But she had somehow discovered the conspiracy. Hence his banishment to purgatory with talk of divorce after the elections.

However after Zardari’s suicidal stand on the judges issue and the resounding defeat there on, it has become impossible to keep him afloat. The honorable thing for him to do is to quit and take the team of his partners in crime, who surround him, with him. What is desperately required in the present mess is a leader in the true sense of the word who commands trust and respect. Zardari and his cohorts do not and cannot meet the requirement.

The Chaos that is rampant today is the consequence of not only Zardari’s unfitness for the job but also the concept of reconciliation : This has given us a political set up, devoid of ideology and principals in which it is proudly proclaimed there is no last word, allowing lots of space for playing tricks and cheating. Reconciliation is merely an invitation to come and sit at the banquet of government and indulge to the hilt. The main purpose is to rope in all dissent so that no one is left out to complain. As a consequence we have the proponents of Nizam-e- Mustafa / Shariat, leftists, Nationalists, adventureers with no commitment to the people, who believe only in being with the government of the day or as close to it as possible, joining the majority party which calls itself the “chain of federation” to enjoy the perks and pleasure of power. Such a conglomerate of adversities is a non starter ab initio. Apart from the huge costs to the exchequer of providing ministerships to all and accommodating everyone to his satisfaction, it is impossible to have a lasting state of harmony among these basically conflicting interests, as we see today. There is nothing for the people in reconciliation as the experience of the last twelve months has proved. Never before have the people of Pakistan been so deprived and destitute and the government of the day so helpless and useless. There is no surprise that reconciliation has blown up and the country is once again at the crossroads of uncertainty. This scenario was easy to predicted at the start when, of all people, Zardari become the master of the destiny of one hundred and sixty million Pakistan.
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Black Zero said:
If FB believes that Zardari killed her Daddy....this doesnot mean that Zardari killed her daddy.
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Oh.. so you want us to believe FRA and HM but you don't believe FB or MB... wonder why?
 
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Black Zero said:
Pakistani people are suffering for so many reasons, and politicians are not in top ten list.

Terrorism...Reason Pakistan Army and Agencies
Weak/non-functioning institutions...Reason dictatorship
Hatred for India...Army and army backed media
Gibraltar Mission, Kargil ... Reason Army
Corruption ... Reason Society
High Inflation ... result of above

Zaradari spent decade in jail and not a single case proven against him (under several govts) ... but it's human nature to find someone to blame...
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This is actually all true. The strongest institution in Pakistan is the ISI and following that is Al-Qaeda/Taliban elements. Both are the creations of the army and both are the biggest threat to Pakistan.
 
W63L35 said:
Here is another one from 2009 for you ... BZ.. enjoy. Now, don't tell me you don't know who Mumtaz Bhutto is!
http://teeth.com.pk/blog/2009/04/02/i-told-you-so-by-mumtaz-ali-bhutto


I'll bump Malik thread for you to chill.







Oh.. so you want us to believe FRA and HM but you don't believe FB or MB... wonder why?
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I think you do not know much about MB and FB.

Read the history of MB...He is nationalist while it was Zardari who said "Pakistan Khappy"

MB proved absolutely wrong, even the worst enemies of zardari admit his political acumen and leadership.

re: FB, she is a sore loser.
crying baby!
 
To all PPP supporters, a simple question which should be fairly simple to answer:

If Zardari is clean and not corrupt, what is the source of his billions...or even the 60 million in that one infamous Swiss account???
 
Zarrar said:
To all PPP supporters, a simple question which should be fairly simple to answer:

If Zardari is clean and not corrupt, what is the source of his billions...or even the 60 million in that one infamous Swiss account???
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Prove it in the court and put him in the jail...(oh he already spent a decade in jail with a single case proven against him)


who cares about millions ... this is just a pocket money for CJ's son
and Hamid Gul's daughter.

p.s: Food, Investment, Real estate industries (net worth 1.8 B$)
 
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sorry but I dont think I got a clear answer to a very early question from the resident zaredari supporter:

please name 6 things zardari has done that have improved the lives of the ordinary pakistani!
 
Are you for real, Black Zero? Or are you just trolling for attention? Either way, you dont come out of this discussion in a good light...

1. Zardari's family owned one cinema in Karachi. How is he now worth $2bn+ in just two decades (excluding the value of the inherited Bhutto family wealth)?

2. You don't have to be found guilty to be guilty. Are you saying Blair and Bush - neither of whom are in power anymore - were not guilty of an illegal war and war crimes? Neither will ever be found guilty in a court of law.

3. Why is Zardari continually blocking the letters to the Swiss courts, even sacrificing his paindu PM in the process?

4. As Great Khan asks, what has Zardari done to improve the country over the last 4.5 years? Record law and order problems, record high unemployment, high inflation, record low foreign direct investment (less than 10% that of Vietnam, FFS!), corruption so high that we are second only to Nigeria in the WCI for countries of population greater than 30m)... the list goes on.

A political genius, yes. But so is Robert Mugabe. A good leader, you make me laugh.
 
jaspa888 said:
Are you for real, Black Zero? Or are you just trolling for attention? Either way, you dont come out of this discussion in a good light...

1. Zardari's family owned one cinema in Karachi. How is he now worth $2bn+ in just two decades (excluding the value of the inherited Bhutto family wealth)?


he sacrificed for democracy!

2. You don't have to be found guilty to be guilty. Are you saying Blair and Bush - neither of whom are in power anymore - were not guilty of an illegal war and war crimes? Neither will ever be found guilty in a court of law.

politically motivated, he sacrificed for democracy

3. Why is Zardari continually blocking the letters to the Swiss courts, even sacrificing his paindu PM in the process?

lies all of it, politically motivated, democracy is the best revenge

4. As Great Khan asks, what has Zardari done to improve the country over the last 4.5 years? Record law and order problems, record high unemployment, high inflation, record low foreign direct investment (less than 10% that of Vietnam, FFS!), corruption so high that we are second only to Nigeria in the WCI for countries of population greater than 30m)... the list goes on.

he gave the country democracy as its the best revenge, they should be grateful

A political genius, yes. But so is Robert Mugabe. A good leader, you make me laugh.
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regards
 
Black Zero said:
Prove it in the court and put him in the jail...(oh he already spent a decade in jail with a single case proven against him)


who cares about millions ... this is just a pocket money for CJ's son
and Hamid Gul's daughter.

p.s: Food, Investment, Real estate industries (net worth 1.8 B$)
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It was proven in a Swiss court, which is an unbiased and a neutral body...
 
not much aware of pakistani politics.. but from what (i think) i know.. i find zardari a very intelligent person.. was in jail and tortured.. was given the nickname mr 10% when all politicians are corrupt...was blamed for his wife's death...yet rose to become the president of the country where he had to suffer persecution.. and managed to keep his position even when there is so much public opinion against him...managed to deal with the judiciary which was against him... not sure what good or bad he did for his country..but have to admit that this can be no ordinary person.. a master of politics.. a genius.
 
saadibaba said:
Zardari had the good luck to be present at the right place and the right time. He is a master tactician probably the best this country have seen in a while but there is only so much one can achieve by playing sly games and manipulating the political system. You need a Bhutto pedigree to excite the hearts of the jiyalas and to gain their unwavering support. Last time, the murder of BB was enough to get him the sympathy vote, plus PML-N was poorly prepared for the elections. This time it won't be that easy. PML-N and PTI are ready with the judiciary at their side. Here are certain factors which will make a PPP victory hard to achieve.

1. The incumbency factor, especially when the party has done such a poor job in every field and at every level.

2. In the last election, PPP won almost 40% of their seats in the NA from areas outside Sindh and South Punjab. Those areas like north Punjab, KP and Balochistan are not looking as promising as they did last time.

3. PPP has pretty much abandoned the urban vote bank. They have already assumed that they are unlikely to win any seats from urban areas because of their poor performance and media's influence in those areas which is predominantly anti PPP. Now they are totally relying on rural voters, a risky strategy to say the least.

4. Because of the fear of terrorist attacks or other reasons, the PPP leadership which mainly consists of Zardari will be unable to hold large rallies across Pakistan, like BB used to do. One has to be pretty involved and motivated to get the jiyalas riled up, esp. in Punjab. Sitting in the president house is not going to do it for the jiyalas, even Bilawal is not used to that type of campaigning and it's hard to imagine him doing much more than winning his own seat.

5. PML-N which used to pretend to be anti-establishment has recently shown their true colors and are displaying themselves to be the same old pro establishment party. They know that the path towards victory goes through GHQ, hence I sense more pro establishment pandering from them in the coming months, on the other hand, PPP can never promote themselves as pro establishment, even if they are in reality more pro establishment than anyone. They will continue to play the anti establishment and anti judiciary game in the media, but its unlikely to work, not this time at least.

As for PTI, I am sensing some desperation on their part from the events of the last few weeks. Making alliance with Sheikh Rashid, offering party membership to Amir Liaqat and pandering to the religious right in Karachi and elsewhere does not seem like the doings of a party once destined to sweep the nation. They are still strong contenders but I think in the end it's going to come down to which party Gen. Kayani is likely to endorse. Can he trust Nawaz with his checkered past with Army generals or can he trust IK who can be head strong and may not follow the script laid out for him with regards to foreign policy. At this time, it's a toss up.
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Good post but I disagree regarding General Kayani.

I oppose his drones policy but the one good thing he has done is to withdraw the military from active politics, barring incidents such as the judicial reinstatement where he forced PM Gilani to restore the judges before things really got out of hand and mass civil disobedience occurred.

If Kayani is endorsing candidates, why didn't he try to rig the 2008 elections in favour on the PML-Q ? He let the elections go ahead and the PPP won.
 
GentleMan said:
if zardari is not a genius how do you explain him being the president when the judiciary, the army and the public dont like him..
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People around him are :16: genius.

Zulfiqar Bhutto was genius but people around were idiots.
 
GentleMan said:
if zardari is not a genius how do you explain him being the president when the judiciary, the army and the public dont like him..
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he is a good at playing dirty games. He knows how to buy people. That doesnt make him good for the country
 
Zardari is a political genius, for all the wrong reasons. Its amazing how Zardari can blame the PML-Q for colluding in the murder of his own wife, even go as far as calling that party 'qatal party', and yet drop his principles at the drop of a hat when his government needs saving, and makes an alliance with them.

In Karachi you have MQM and ANP at each others throats. Punjab is divided between PTI and PML-N.

Meanwhile all this is happening, Mr President himself is laughing all the way to the bank.
 
jaspa888 said:
Are you for real, Black Zero?

Yes, i am real.

1. Zardari's family owned one cinema in Karachi. How is he now worth $2bn+ in just two decades (excluding the value of the inherited Bhutto family wealth)?

His sources: Real Estate, Investment plus he is partner in almost all major business groups.

and nothing wrong in it.


2. You don't have to be found guilty to be guilty. Are you saying Blair and Bush - neither of whom are in power anymore - were not guilty of an illegal war and war crimes? Neither will ever be found guilty in a court of law.

I disagree, for an reasonable person...accusing is not equal to be proven guilty. As Hamid Mir said in above clip that all cases were fabricated.

3. Why is Zardari continually blocking the letters to the Swiss courts, even sacrificing his paindu PM in the process?

Constitution of pakistan does not permit this.

a- CJ can write a letter on his behalf...no one is stopping him.
b- There are 100s of cases filed against zardari...Ask CJ to pay attention on those cases.



4. As Great Khan asks, what has Zardari done to improve the country over the last 4.5 years? Record law and order problems, record high unemployment, high inflation, record low foreign direct investment (less than 10% that of Vietnam, FFS!), corruption so high that we are second only to Nigeria in the WCI for countries of population greater than 30m)... the list goes on.

several things, including:
Zardari kept Pakistan united
transferred powers to PM and restored constitution to it's original shape.
strengthen political institution and collation govts are successfully running in center and provinces.
picked best ever EC
etc.etc.




A political genius, yes. But so is Robert Mugabe. A good leader, you make me laugh.
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...response in-lines above
 
BZ

1. You are missing the point. Everyone knows he is worth billions. The question is how did he acquire all this real estate and investments? How could he afford to buy his £6m chateau in France? How has he managed to buy his £45m house in Hyde Park? Certainly not from the proceeds of one family cinema.

2, You ignore my point about Bush and Blair. Guilt doesn't have to be proven in a backwater banana republic like Pakistan because justice can be purchased at a price.

3. The Constitution can be changed. Indeed, the original constitution did not provide this immunity, and this was amended later. It can - and should - be amended back again, especially if Zardari is the upholder of justice as you insist.

4. Your examples (my comments in bold):

- Zardari kept Pakistan united - Pakistan has never been as divided in its history as it is now, on both sectarian and religious grounds. Try again.

- Transferred powers to PM and restored constitution to it's original shape - The PM he has chosen is someone he can easily control. Indeed he has already sacrificed one PM to save himself. And if the Constitution is so important to him, why is he refusing to discharge the immunity amendments as these weren't in the original Constitution?

- Strengthen political institution and collation govts are successfully running in center and provinces - The only reason he hasn't been toppled as the most unpopular Government ever is that the Generals have been prevented from doing so by the US. While he carries out the war in Waziristan, the US will back Zardari. That is why he is a political genius. He has replaced the successful nazim system in the economic hub of Karachi and replaced it with his corrupt and inept Administrator. Look at how Karachi has suffered economically, socially and politically over the last 5 years...

- Picked best ever EC - we will see how great the EC after the forthcoming elections, when we hear about the tens of millions of jaali voters, and widespread corruption. Watch this space.
 
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waqar_ahmad said:
^ To be fair, its not easy to come up with proper arguments to defend zardari
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But at least he came up with a spiffing title for the thread. I keep picturing Zardari in a top hat and cape.

snidelywhiplash.png
 
jaspa888 said:
BZ

1. You are missing the point. Everyone knows he is worth billions. The question is how did he acquire all this real estate and investments? How could he afford to buy his £6m chateau in France? How has he managed to buy his £45m house in Hyde Park? Certainly not from the proceeds of one family cinema.
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I mentioned (twice) his sources of income, above.
I do not know what else you need?

2, You ignore my point about Bush and Blair. Guilt doesn't have to be proven in a backwater banana republic like Pakistan because justice can be purchased at a price.
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In reality, SC/PHC are anti-zardari and trying their best to get hold of him. (this to say that this is not even a point)

3. The Constitution can be changed. Indeed, the original constitution did not provide this immunity, and this was amended later. It can - and should - be amended back again, especially if Zardari is the upholder of justice as you insist.
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First of all this immunity is not novel for pakistan, there are 100+ countries got this provision in Constitution.

If you want to change it, ask opposition leader (Ch. nisar) to atleast float this idea... parliament may accept it.

4. Your examples (my comments in bold):

- Zardari kept Pakistan united - Pakistan has never been as divided in its history as it is now, on both sectarian and religious grounds. Try again.

- Transferred powers to PM and restored constitution to it's original shape - The PM he has chosen is someone he can easily control. Indeed he has already sacrificed one PM to save himself. And if the Constitution is so important to him, why is he refusing to discharge the immunity amendments as these weren't in the original Constitution?

- Strengthen political institution and collation govts are successfully running in center and provinces - The only reason he hasn't been toppled as the most unpopular Government ever is that the Generals have been prevented from doing so by the US. While he carries out the war in Waziristan, the US will back Zardari. That is why he is a political genius. He has replaced the successful nazim system in the economic hub of Karachi and replaced it with his corrupt and inept Administrator. Look at how Karachi has suffered economically, socially and politically over the last 5 years...

- Picked best ever EC - we will see how great the EC after the forthcoming elections, when we hear about the tens of millions of jaali voters, and widespread corruption. Watch this space.
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PPPP is the only national party. You just can't keep killing sindhi PMs and still hope that Sindhis would love you. big mistake.

If Zardari using USA-Card...what's wrong in it?

Transfer of power is huge thing..esp after what Farooq Lughari did to Bibi...

All parties agreed on EC so do not be surprised that losers :ik will complain about "unfair" elections.
 
Your enthusiasm is impressive, even if your arguments are not.

I'll try and explain to you - simply - why Zardari is corrupt:

No-one doubts Zardari's wealth. The question is how he acquired it. We know he is rich because he has property and investments, but how did he manage to accumulate the wealth to buy these properties and investments in the first place? A £6m chateau in France? A £45m house in Hyde Park? Certainly not from the proceeds of one family cinema.

Your rather facetious argument is that Zardari has all this wealth because of his properties and investments. What you cant grasp - or perhaps refuse to grasp because it is incompatible with your argument - is the source of the funds to acquire this property and investment portfolio in the first place.
 
jaspa888 said:
Your enthusiasm is impressive, even if your arguments are not.

I'll try and explain to you - simply - why Zardari is corrupt:

No-one doubts Zardari's wealth. The question is how he acquired it. We know he is rich because he has property and investments, but how did he manage to accumulate the wealth to buy these properties and investments in the first place? A £6m chateau in France? A £45m house in Hyde Park? Certainly not from the proceeds of one family cinema.

Your rather facetious argument is that Zardari has all this wealth because of his properties and investments. What you cant grasp - or perhaps refuse to grasp because it is incompatible with your argument - is the source of the funds to acquire this property and investment portfolio in the first place.
Click to expand...

if you think that no one can be super rich without corruption then i can't be much help.

if ik (who is not bright) can make a profit of 1600 times in 4/5 year in one deal...then you should not question Zardari.
 
Memo gate ....> GHQ would fire Zardari
Swiss Letter ...>CJ will crush Zardari

few months passed...

now it's GHQ vs CJ

and both accepting that real power is with civil govt (i.e Zardari)
 
Black Zero said:
if you think that no one can be super rich without corruption then i can't be much help.

if ik (who is not bright) can make a profit of 1600 times in 4/5 year in one deal...then you should not question Zardari.
Click to expand...

Pakistan is in dire straits because of compliant paindus like you. We should be questioning everyone. Especially someone who can turn thousands into billions over just a couple of decades.
 
jaspa888 said:
Pakistan is in dire straits because of compliant paindus like you. We should be questioning everyone. Especially someone who can turn thousands into billions over just a couple of decades.
Click to expand...

Zardari was questioned by several govts over 20+ years...he spent many many years behind bars...
he was prosecuted by hostile judiciary...

but not a single case proven against him...

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=5263026&postcount=81

sorry, I can't assume him corrupt because you said so.
 
another case closed as there was no evidence....

SLAMABAD: The decades-old Swiss case saga has finally ended in favour of President Asif Ali Zardari after Swiss authorities informed the government that a corruption case involving him cannot be reopened in their country on legal grounds.

According to sources, the Swiss attorney general, in reply to a letter sent by the government three months back, told the law ministry that the case could not be reopened because it had become time-barred under the Swiss law.

The government had written the letter to Swiss legal authorities in the first week of November last year in line with the Supreme Court’s order in the NRO case seeking revival of the case accusing President Zardari of receiving kickbacks in the award of a pre-shipment contract to a Swiss company in 1994.

The letter, addressed to the Swiss attorney general, had been sent through the Foreign Office and Pakistan’s embassy in Switzerland.

Submitting a copy of the letter before the apex court, Law Minister Farooq Naek had said that there had been no change in the draft approved by the five-judge bench, headed by Justice Asif Saeed Khosa, during the hearing of the NRO judgment implementation case on Oct 10.

Approving the draft presented by the minister, the court had given the government five weeks to send the letter to Swiss authorities.

Through the letter, signed by Law Secretary Justice (retd) Yasmin Abbasey, the government had sought withdrawal of a letter written by former attorney general Malik Abdul Qayyum to his Swiss counterpart Daniel Zappelli on May 22, 2008, telling him that the Pakistan government was withdrawing the mutual legal assistance in the graft case against Mr Zardari after promulgation of the National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO) by former president Gen (retd) Pervez Musharraf.

“This is with reference to the letter dated 22nd May, 2008, addressed by Malik Mohammad Qayyum, the then attorney general of Pakistan, to Mr Daniel Zappelli, Attorney General, Geneva, Switzerland.

“In view of the directives given by the Supreme Court of Pakistan in Paragraph 178 (copy attached as Annex-I) of its judgment dated Dec 16 December, 2009, in the case of Dr Mobashir Hasan, reported as PLD 2010 SC 265, the aforesaid letter is hereby withdrawn and may be treated as never written and, therefore, revival of requests, status and claims, is sought,” the draft approved by the SC and read out by Justice Khosa in the court while dictating the order said.

The letter had not only asked for reopening the $60 million case against the president but also emphasised at the same time the legal protection and immunity available to him, without mentioning constitutional provisions.

The NRO case that had gripped the country for over 30 months had finally come to an end when the Supreme Court approved the government’s letter – after having rejected three previous drafts – it had ordered while hearing the case about implementation of its verdict against the NRO.
Click to expand...
 
Not proven does NOT imply Not guilty

Wonder why he needs those Swiss accounts to hide money, If he can just stash his money in a more transparent location, or better yet in the country he's unfortunately the President of .........assuming its his halalily acquired money.:moyo
 
LethalSami said:
Not proven does NOT imply Not guilty

Wonder why he needs those Swiss accounts to hide money, If he can just stash his money in a more transparent location, or better yet in the country he's unfortunately the President of .........assuming its his halalily acquired money.:moyo
Click to expand...

first he was not even accused in this case...he was beneficiary

[utube]RsAWDh4l0Rg[/utube]

at 1:05
 
Black Zero said:
Zardari was questioned by several govts over 20+ years...he spent many many years behind bars...
he was prosecuted by hostile judiciary...

but not a single case proven against him...

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=5263026&postcount=81

sorry, I can't assume him corrupt because you said so.
Click to expand...


Agreed. If anything, its the complete failure of PML-N, the Army and the corrupt judiciary( of that time) in failing to convict him( therefore also raising the question in terms of the legitimacy of the claims). One only has to look at how the "Ehtisaab Commission" by Justice Qayyum was carried out to see how incompetent the two branches( judicial and executive) were in carrying out the charges.
 
Black Zero said:
first he was not even accused in this case...he was beneficiary

[utube]RsAWDh4l0Rg[/utube]

at 1:05
Click to expand...

doesn't prove anything...

neither answers any of the those questions i've raised....

classic BZ, bringing irrelevant stuff...........lolz @ Abidi, even that PPP jiyala/spokesman saying "PPP ka corruption pay haq hai"......is more believable than this Abidi guy
 
LethalSami said:
doesn't prove anything...

neither answers any of the those questions i've raised....

classic BZ, bringing irrelevant stuff...........lolz @ Abidi, even that PPP jiyala/spokesman saying "PPP ka corruption pay haq hai"......is more believable than this Abidi guy
Click to expand...

who told you to believe Abidi...
check what Hamid said in response...
 
Zardari is a genious. Pakistan is lucky to have such a great leader in times of troubles.
 
LethalSami said:
exactly how does this help the poor Awaam???

considering the situation with INFLATION, electricity, gas, security, etc......
Click to expand...

Media is independent (no one stopping them to provide truth to poor awam)
Judiciary is independent (no one stopping them to provide justice to poor awam)
Bureaucracy is independent (no one stopping them to do their job)

Zaradari is the head od state...protector of constitution...and he has done his job..


Election Commission is independent, its up to poor awam to elect their new govt.
 
1. Media isn't independent in any country, let alone in banana republics.

2. Swiss case closed because of time bar, so PPP delays have worked. It doesn't innocent.

3. The stock market measures the relative strength of the top companies, not the population. The FTSE in the UK is at a 5 year high, yet the country is pn the verge of a triple dip recession. it proves nothing. Every other economic indicator suggests Pakistan is at its weakest in its 70 year history.
 
I love Zardari because he is not a Munafiq/hypocrite (A rarity in Pakistani culture)

-Geo to aisey

(Who cares if people are dying. I have never given a thought while eating chicken)
 
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Yes Zardari isnt corrupt, Bilawal is superman, Bhutto never died and is still alive and I just came back from the moon. Life is good.
 
the Great Khan said:
Yes Zardari isnt corrupt, Bilawal is superman, Bhutto never died and is still alive and I just came back from the moon. Life is good.
Click to expand...

Name me a single politician of influence who did anything good for Pakistan except Bhutto who gave you Nuclear bomb. Even liaquat ali khan wasn't able to abolish feudal system (for whatever reasons)
 
Last edited:
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And Bhutto was as bad as the rest of them, but spoke well in eloquent Western and jahil terms.
 
shakil said:
Name me a single politician of influence who did anything good for Pakistan except Bhutto who gave you Nuclear bomb. Even liaquat ali khan wasn't able to abolish feudal system (for whatever reasons)
Click to expand...

yes your right Bhutto zinda hay and hence we should forget the sins of his successors. Indeed a sound basis for moving forward.
 
jaspa888 said:
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And Bhutto was as bad as the rest of them, but spoke well in eloquent Western and jahil terms.
Click to expand...

Bhutto was the only politician who also introduced land reforms to reduce the effect of feudal system. He was the only leader capable of preventing a complete breakup of Pakistan after 1971 (but I concede that this is a debatable issue)

Zardari, Benazir, Nawaz are all players who don't have enough power to take a stand like Bhutto. So I wouldn't blame them so much but sure they filled their coffers like the others ... bureaucrats, higher-ups of army/forces, businessmen ...
 
the Great Khan said:
yes your right Bhutto zinda hay and hence we should forget the sins of his successors. Indeed a sound basis for moving forward.
Click to expand...

Buddy, you may want to study a lot of unbiased history of Pakistan to really understand the why and whats (I am doing the same after I was fed with bull**** due to Zia's fascist policies)

Zardari is one of many many people ... How else can you define Riaz thekeedar and other intermeditaries who are only middlemen of Fuedals?
 
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Black Zero said:
Definitely

Pakistani stock exchange crossed 17500 today.

Highest ever in Pakistani history..
Click to expand...

Im assuming thats to do with the (9th) IMF loan we got yesterday...you know the loans which we've amassed in the last 5odd years which are more than the loans amassed in the previous 60odd years...

Then again, i remember your bullcr@p comment in a Balochistan thread, so you supporting Zardari doesnt surprise me :poodle :altaf
 
shakil said:
Bhutto was the only politician who also introduced land reforms to reduce the effect of feudal system. He was the only leader capable of preventing a complete breakup of Pakistan after 1971 (but I concede that this is a debatable issue)

Zardari, Benazir, Nawaz are all players who don't have enough power to take a stand like Bhutto. So I wouldn't blame them so much but sure they filled their coffers like the others ... bureaucrats, higher-ups of army/forces, businessmen ...
Click to expand...

But ZAB is dead, and has been for MANY years. Thats the end of his story....his daughter, son in law and crazy jiyala's have been raping Pakistan in his name for many years.

Bhutto did what he did...but it all ended when he was buried. Simple as
 
shakil said:
Buddy, you may want to study a lot of unbiased history of Pakistan to really understand the why and whats (I am doing the same after I was fed with bull**** due to Zia's fascist policies)

Zardari is one of many many people ... How else can you define Riaz thekeedar and other intermeditaries who are only middlemen of Fuedals?
Click to expand...

with all due respect but BHUTTO was far from the saviour he is portrayed and Zia is also not the crazy fascist that some modernits portray him as. the truth is very much in between and perhaps to the side.

Bhutto himself was a product of the ayub era, was a feudal and also a socialist in his leanings. He had a great opportunity to change the course of Pakistan but instead damned us with inefficiency, and a pervasive level of corruption that still haunts us today. His over inflated sense of self importance. Something that lead to the biggest calamity in the history of Pakistan. but then again im no historian so each to his own.
 
the Great Khan said:
with all due respect but BHUTTO was far from the saviour he is portrayed and Zia is also not the crazy fascist that some modernits portray him as. the truth is very much in between and perhaps to the side.

Bhutto himself was a product of the ayub era, was a feudal and also a socialist in his leanings. He had a great opportunity to change the course of Pakistan but instead damned us with inefficiency, and a pervasive level of corruption that still haunts us today. His over inflated sense of self importance. Something that lead to the biggest calamity in the history of Pakistan. but then again im no historian so each to his own.
Click to expand...

Yeah and I didn't say fascist in a negative sense. Fascism is imposing only one point of view and even Bhutto was fascist in some aspects.

Brother what I am trying to say is that Pakistan is in its current state b/c of Islam (two nation theory proven to be wrong), Feudalism and lack of education - not because of the few personalities we can name...
 
Sir Asif Ali Zaradari has tried his level best to revive the country , but what can he do when there is a corruption at ground levels in the country such as labour workers , electricians police and all the rest. Zardari gets blamed for no reason , people are stupid a nation can only be lucky to have such a Leader , like I live in UK and would love Zardari to be the prime minister.
 
shaheer said:
Sir Asif Ali Zaradari has tried his level best to revive the country , but what can he do when there is a corruption at ground levels in the country such as labour workers , electricians police and all the rest. Zardari gets blamed for no reason , people are stupid a nation can only be lucky to have such a Leader , like I live in UK and would love Zardari to be the prime minister.
Click to expand...

:)))
 
@shakil, Bhutto is also responsible for splitting the country in 2........great achievement :)

:zardari........the less said, the better
 
LethalSami said:
@shakil, Bhutto is also responsible for splitting the country in 2........great achievement :)
Click to expand...

Lets ask our Bangladeshi brothers how they view Bhutto :afridi. Is anyone of them reading the thread?

b/w Bhutto was handed over broken state of affairs. He could only ensure that West Pakistan doesn't break further.

Hint: Why was Awami league formed to counter the feudal PML as early as 1950s? Which ethnic riots happened in East Pakistan and at what periods?
 
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^
What is Ayub so worried about (Feb, 1969)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/K-zL5dKh4Bs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
One politician has come back on the scene, looted and took as much as he could, and now its someone else's turn.

The new President looks like it will be Mamnoon Hussain, who does not have much experience of administration other than being Governor of Sindh once.
 
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