The greatest Asian Test team of all time

[Junaids]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
A GOAT team can’t lose so many series.

You often talk of Pakistan losing a single Test with hometown umpires in Sri Lanka before their ascent to greatness in 1986.

But that Pakistan team lost one series in seven years, by a margin of 1-0, when rain ruined the Sydney Test which they were quite likely to win (and did on their next tour).

Kohli has lost series all over the place - England (2), South Africa, New Zealand (2) etc etc.

I would have recognised them as ATG’s by Asian standards if they hadn’t just lost a third Test in a row to New Zealand, scoring less than 200 in four of those six innings.

I don’t even think this India team is in the Top Three Indian teams that I have seen, let alone Asian. Kohli is the only batsman who would get into the Dravid-Laxman-Tendulkar team.

 

[mystical man]

The outcome of this one-off, rain-hit match is irrelevant. India were the best team in the WTC cycle and finished 100+ points above New Zealand in spite of having a much tougher schedule.

Furthermore, it also has no bearing on the current India (post 2015) as the GOAT Asian Test team because they have already achieved more than any other Asian side in the past.

Winning the WTC would have been nothing more than a cherry on top.

1) Two Test series wins in Australia

2) Only two Test losses at home since 2015 and zero series lost

3) longest reign as the number 1 ranked Test team in the 2010-2020 decade

4) longest number 1 reign for any Asian Test team in history

5) Virat Kohli has more Test wins as captain than any other Asian captain in history

All these achievements make the current India the GOAT Asian Test team.

Please watch the highlights of the game to be able to come to this conclusion that India is a great side.We are sitting ducks against seam and even current pakistan can defeat us in a test match

 

[mastimasti]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
A GOAT team can’t lose so many series.

You often talk of Pakistan losing a single Test with hometown umpires in Sri Lanka before their ascent to greatness in 1986.

But that Pakistan team lost one series in seven years, by a margin of 1-0, when rain ruined the Sydney Test which they were quite likely to win (and did on their next tour).

Kohli has lost series all over the place - England (2), South Africa, New Zealand (2) etc etc.

I would have recognised them as ATG’s by Asian standards if they hadn’t just lost a third Test in a row to New Zealand, scoring less than 200 in four of those six innings.

I don’t even think this India team is in the Top Three Indian teams that I have seen, let alone Asian. Kohli is the only batsman who would get into the Dravid-Laxman-Tendulkar team.

You make great points!

I posted previously, maybe in this thread, that there have been at least two Indian sides in my lifetime better than this and if we look at the lates 90s through the 00s....damn that side was good and if the Aussies and Saffers at the time had not been so good, we would have been head honchos.

Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, later Dhoni, Zaheer Khan, Kumble and Singh. Almost all of these guys have an argument for some of the best cricketers ever.

What do we have now? Kohli yes but Pujara? No. Sharma? Great ODI but hardly a great test bat and then the bowling.

People are even propagandists or b....hurt.

 

[subshakerz]

The outcome of this one-off, rain-hit match is irrelevant. India were the best team in the WTC cycle and finished 100+ points above New Zealand in spite of having a much tougher schedule.

Furthermore, it also has no bearing on the current India (post 2015) as the GOAT Asian Test team because they have already achieved more than any other Asian side in the past.

Winning the WTC would have been nothing more than a cherry on top.

1) Two Test series wins in Australia

2) Only two Test losses at home since 2015 and zero series lost

3) longest reign as the number 1 ranked Test team in the 2010-2020 decade

4) longest number 1 reign for any Asian Test team in history

5) Virat Kohli has more Test wins as captain than any other Asian captain in history

All these achievements make the current India the GOAT Asian Test team.

What a silly comment. That is like saying that the result of a one-off ODI World Cup final between India and NZ doesn't matter as long as India entered the final with a higher net runrate and more wins.

This was a title fight and India under Kohli chocked again

 

[MenInG]

Dare I bump this thread now?

India looking so solid in England at the moment.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Asian teams Test records at Lord's:<br><br>Pakistan<br>Played 15, Won 5, Lost 4, Drawn 6<br><br>India<br>Played 19, Won 3, Lost 12, Drawn 4<br><br>Sri Lanka<br>Played 8, Won 0, Lost 2, Drawn 6<br><br>Bangladesh<br>Played 2, Lost 2<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1427324620118577159?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 16, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

This match also proves that AUS TOUR OF 20-21 was won by Kohli's team , the self belief and fighting spirit are his legacy,Rahane was just at the right place at the right time.
Also this bowling attack is a result of the fast bowling culture set up by this Team management.

 

[Gullycricket]

How can the so called "GOAT Asian Test team " be so unpredictable and inconsistent ?

PCT fans are always told that being unpredictable is no good and it has harmed our cricket the most. What about this Indian team?
36 AO and 78 AO and multiple collapses over the number 1 reign. I dont think there has been such a weak No 1 team and this " GOAT" Asian test team doesnt deserve this side. I would say the India team of 2007-2011 and PCT of 70's , 80's deserve more recognition. This team is a joke.

 

[Ab Fan]

The current Indian test team legacy is built because of the sensational test series win in Australia which was on the back of Rishabh Pant's two game changing knocks in Brisbane and Sydney.

The win was special because it not only proved this team's domination in Australia but at the same time, it also removed all the asterisks that were put on 2018 Australia series win.

The template is there for everyone to note and proceed with. The Australia series win and Lords test win came on the back of performances from these players:-

Rishabh Pant, Age - 23
Washington Sundar, Age - 22
Shubhman Gill, Age - 22
Jasprit Bumrah, Age - 27
Mohammad Siraj, Age - 27
KL Rahul, Age - 27
Hanuma Vihari, Age - 27

There are enough talents in all department but the seniority culture will not help as long as it continues. It is not too hard either. In 2015, England dropped Ian Bell who was actually aeraging in 40s. Gambhir was dropped when he wasn't doing too bad either.

The problem here is that our Kaptaan sahab simply is no longer interested in improving. He knows that dropping Pujara and Rahane will lead to extra pressure on him as a batsman.

He anyways feels that he has already achieved everything as a leader and that's where you stop performing as batsman or as captain. With this mindset, it is in the best interest of Indian team that he does the hand-over part to one of Rohit Sharma, KL Rahul or Rishabh Pant and retire peacefully from test cricket.

 

[OMB]

PCT fans are always told that being unpredictable is no good and it has harmed our cricket the most. What about this Indian team?
36 AO and 78 AO and multiple collapses over the number 1 reign. I dont think there has been such a weak No 1 team and this " GOAT" Asian test team doesnt deserve this side. I would say the India team of 2007-2011 and PCT of 70's , 80's deserve more recognition. This team is a joke.

But look at how they bounce back?
They are very predictable in the way they fight back. India of 2007-11 got more recognition due to the WC wins and not test wins.

 

[mastimasti]

The current Indian test team legacy is built because of the sensational test series win in Australia which was on the back of Rishabh Pant's two game changing knocks in Brisbane and Sydney.

The win was special because it not only proved this team's domination in Australia but at the same time, it also removed all the asterisks that were put on 2018 Australia series win.

The template is there for everyone to note and proceed with. The Australia series win and Lords test win came on the back of performances from these players:-

Rishabh Pant, Age - 23
Washington Sundar, Age - 22
Shubhman Gill, Age - 22
Jasprit Bumrah, Age - 27
Mohammad Siraj, Age - 27
KL Rahul, Age - 27
Hanuma Vihari, Age - 27

There are enough talents in all department but the seniority culture will not help as long as it continues. It is not too hard either. In 2015, England dropped Ian Bell who was actually aeraging in 40s. Gambhir was dropped when he wasn't doing too bad either.

The problem here is that our Kaptaan sahab simply is no longer interested in improving. He knows that dropping Pujara and Rahane will lead to extra pressure on him as a batsman.

He anyways feels that he has already achieved everything as a leader and that's where you stop performing as batsman or as captain. With this mindset, it is in the best interest of Indian team that he does the hand-over part to one of Rohit Sharma, KL Rahul or Rishabh Pant and retire peacefully from test cricket.

England beat an indisputably better Australian side away too and then some years later, beat a better version of the India side too, on some terribly turning pitches. So simply beating Australia or winning away series (which we have done very little actually) is not an indication of being a GOAT side.

Specifically to Asia, the Pakistan side in the 80s was far better as well as the Indian teams of the 00s.

 

[Ab Fan]

<B>England beat an indisputably better Australian side away too</B> and then some years later, beat a better version of the India side too, on some terribly turning pitches. So simply beating Australia or winning away series (which we have done very little actually) is not an indication of being a GOAT side.

Specifically to Asia, the Pakistan side in the 80s was far better as well as the Indian teams of the 00s.

I am assuming you are talking about 2010 Ashes series.

Really, no comparison. 2010 Australia team was extremely weak with only two quality batsman- Clarke and Hussey and the bowlers were Harris and Johnson who was just a scattergun at that time, bowling left right and left. It was comparable to 2018 Australia series win but the strength of the Australian side in 2020 was far better.

We have won two test series in Australia but ofcourse if we lose to England and South Africa next year, this is not the GOAT Asian side. In that case, Indian team between 2007-2011 till World Cup remains the GOAT all format Asian team.

 

[Mamoon]

PCT fans are always told that being unpredictable is no good and it has harmed our cricket the most. What about this Indian team?
36 AO and 78 AO and multiple collapses over the number 1 reign. I dont think there has been such a weak No 1 team and this " GOAT" Asian test team doesnt deserve this side. I would say the India team of 2007-2011 and PCT of 70's , 80's deserve more recognition. This team is a joke.

Are you satisfied now?

 

[Mamoon]

India should have wrapped up the series 3-1 today. England were extremely lucky in the first Test because of rain.

The legacy of the GOAT Asian Test team continues to grow.

 

[dildilpak]

I was just checking the record and looks like since that start of Kohli’s captaincy, India has a test W/L of 8/11 in test series in SENA countries. It seems like a very good record for an Asian team. I am not 100% sure but I doubt any of the other Asian teams cited on this thread have won so many tests. They might have sneaked a few wins in smaller 2-3 test series, but I honestly can’t recall any other Asian team competing so consistently and winning so many tests in SENA countries.

 

[shaz619]

India should have wrapped up the series 3-1 today. England were extremely lucky in the first Test because of rain.

The legacy of the GOAT Asian Test team continues to grow.

All teams should be relishing the idea of touring England now, there is no surprise in beating a team which has no Stokes, Jofra, Butler or Leach - it should be routine really, the Batting is awfully weak to, can’t recall the last time it has been this inconsistent and fragile

 

[Walawalkar]

All teams should be relishing the idea of touring England now, there is no surprise in beating a team which has no Stokes, Jofra, Butler or Leach - it should be routine really, the Batting is awfully weak to, can’t recall the last time it has been this inconsistent and fragile

Pakistan just somehow escaped with a draw against West Indies.
Do you really think current Pakistani team can beat this English side

 

[Savak]

This has without a doubt been the most professional and technology fitness science driven Asian team in history

 

[shaz619]

Pakistan just somehow escaped with a draw against West Indies.
Do you really think current Pakistani team can beat this English side

It would be tough, but they’d have an easier time compared to 2020; they had England’s full strength team on the ropes in the 1st Test but lacked the killer instinct to finish them off, I think Pak would definitely have been better placed against the current bunch of players

 

[marlonbrowndo]

This has without a doubt been the most professional and technology fitness science driven Asian team in history

Pretty much

 

[TheRock]

All teams should be relishing the idea of touring England now, there is no surprise in beating a team which has no Stokes, Jofra, Butler or Leach - it should be routine really, the Batting is awfully weak to, can’t recall the last time it has been this inconsistent and fragile

Butler was dropped from the team after Eng lost the 2nd test. Butler was dropped due to his poor form in the 4 innings that he played against India. And u are saying Eng are missing Butler. LOL
Also, Leach would not hv made any impact on these wickets. Agree with Stokes and Archer missing though.

 

[Sir Alex]

GOAT side. Should be leading 3-1 now.

Had they been playing 2 match test series, India would have won the series already as well, and I guess the 2014 series as well lol.

These two test series should be banned.

 

[Napa]

Butler was dropped from the team after Eng lost the 2nd test. Butler was dropped due to his poor form in the 4 innings that he played against India. And u are saying Eng are missing Butler. LOL
Also, Leach would not hv made any impact on these wickets. Agree with Stokes and Archer missing though.

Archer averages 31 per wicket, hardly someone who would have caused India much trouble.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/player/jofra-archer-669855

 

[Robert]

All teams should be relishing the idea of touring England now, there is no surprise in beating a team which has no Stokes, Jofra, Butler or Leach - it should be routine really, the Batting is awfully weak to, can’t recall the last time it has been this inconsistent and fragile

It has never been this bad previously. England’s strength was always the batting, until now. But there is nobody better around the Counties. The quality has crashed and the domestic schedule is to blame.

 

[Robert]

Butler was dropped from the team after Eng lost the 2nd test. Butler was dropped due to his poor form in the 4 innings that he played against India. And u are saying Eng are missing Butler. LOL
Also, Leach would not hv made any impact on these wickets. Agree with Stokes and Archer missing though.

Butler was not dropped, he missed the match to be at the birth of his child.

But I agree he is a marginal player, neither a good enough batter nor keeper in tests.

 

[Robert]

Dare I bump this thread now?

India looking so solid in England at the moment.

They lost the third test by an innings, to a poor team. This is not GOAT performance. Their batting is too fragile and does not travel well.

The GOAT side from Asia was either Imran’s in 1988 or Miandad’s in 1992.

 

[MP2011]

does not travel well.

Have won 4/9 last away tests, with 2 draws.

If this isn't definition of travelling well then what else is?

 

[MP2011]

Agree with Stokes and Archer missing though.

Archer is a nobody at the moment, isn't fit enough to take the rigors of test cricket.

As for Stokes, well we were missing Jadeja, Bumrah (last 2 tests) and Shami in our home series against England earlier this year. We still comfortably beat England.

 

[MP2011]

GOAT side. Should be leading 3-1 now.

Had they been playing 2 match test series, India would have won the series already as well, and I guess the 2014 series as well lol.

These two test series should be banned.

Exactly. Anyone can win 2-tests series. However its 4-5 tests series which separate men from boys. You don't win 4-5 tests series by fluke.

 

[Mesozoic]

All teams should be relishing the idea of touring England now, there is no surprise in beating a team which has no Stokes, Jofra, Butler or Leach - it should be routine really, the Batting is awfully weak to, can’t recall the last time it has been this inconsistent and fragile

Lmao..

Robinson has already looked a million times better than Archer in English conditions and Butler averaged a grand 14 in the first 3 tests. Leach..well I don't even know what to say to that..

Only stokes is a big miss in this England lineup. And maybe woakes at Lords.

 

[deep82]

If India manages to win this series vs England, this debate will be settled once for all.

Beating Australia and England in a 4/5 test series away in one cycle is absolute GOLD Standard for a Asian team. Don't think any ASIAN team has managed to do that once in their history ever before.

 

[Mesozoic]

At the end of this year, this Indian team would have had an -

Away test series win in Australia

Away Test series win in England.

Away Test series win in South Africa

100% series record at home for God knows how long..

No.1 Test ranking


That will definitely mean they've leapfrogged the Indian team of the late 2000s as the GOAT Asian Test team.

 

[Faiz1978]

At the end of this year, this Indian team would have had an -

Away test series win in Australia

Away Test series win in England.

Away Test series in South Africa

100% series record at home for God knows how long..

No.1 Test ranking


That will definitely mean they've leapfrogged the Indian team of the late 2000s as the GOAT Asian Test team.

this team lost against NZ all 3 test , 2 in NZ and 1 in neutral ground in England , this is not great team. Best Asian team was Pakistan from 1985 to 1993 , check records you will understand .

 

[deep82]

At the end of this year, this Indian team would have had an -

Away test series win in Australia

Away Test series win in England.

Away Test series win in South Africa

100% series record at home for God knows how long..

No.1 Test ranking


That will definitely mean they've leapfrogged the Indian team of the late 2000s as the GOAT Asian Test team.

I wouldn't jump that far to SA series. First priority is to win this current series.

And then to smash the kiwis at home.

But yes beating Australia and England away is stuff of legends.

 

[mastimasti]

I am as overjoyed as any Indian fan after yesterday but why is this thread constantly being bumped? Beating an England team without Ben Stokes, Jofra Archer and Stuart Broad is not exactly beating a great side, especially one with the weakest English batting line up in my life time.

Currently, England are a two man team, Jimmy and his bowling and Root and his batting.

Let's not get carried away.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

They lost the third test by an innings, to a poor team. This is not GOAT performance. Their batting is too fragile and does not travel well.

The GOAT side from Asia was either Imran’s in 1988 or Miandad’s in 1992.

India's away batting average since Jan 2019 is actually the 2nd highest of all teams playing currently.

 

[Ab Fan]

I don't understand why posters are using this without X, without Y player logic.

In 3rd Test, England had Anderson, Robinson, Overton and Curran.

Result - England won by an innings

4th Test, England had Anderson, Robinson, Overton and Chris Woakes.

So, they actually strengthened the team.

Result - India won by 150 runs.

What does this tell us? Cricket is not a linear game. Inclusion or exclusion of one player doesn't make much of a difference except few rare cases. This missing part is pointless debate. The only valid argument that England can make is they were missing Ben Stokes.

These Archers or Woods wouldn't have done much instead of leaking easy runs at economy of 4.0, lol. Wood anyways had a career till now where he has barely ever played more than 3 tests in a year. He is basically a poor man's Shoaib Akhtar.

 

[OMB]

I am as overjoyed as any Indian fan after yesterday but why is this thread constantly being bumped? Beating an England team without Ben Stokes, Jofra Archer and Stuart Broad is not exactly beating a great side, especially one with the weakest English batting line up in my life time.

Currently, England are a two man team, Jimmy and his bowling and Root and his batting.

Let's not get carried away.

Agreed. No need to label India as the greatest Asian test team right now. ICC test rankings not withstanding, it seems WTC test was lost.
However, I do believe they are closest to being the greatest among all as I don't rate New Zealand much outside their their home conditions.

Also, a contradiction in these two statements
1) New Zealand best side in the world (no matter they won the last cycle based on their home test record.
2) India not the best side as they beat a depleted English side (no matter they beat Australia with a depleted side themselves)

 

[Ab Fan]

Robinson is the leading wicket taker of this series, so yeah tell me about dropping him for Broad.

 

[Mesozoic]

this team lost against NZ all 3 test , 2 in NZ and 1 in neutral ground in England , this is not great team. Best Asian team was Pakistan from 1985 to 1993 , check records you will understand .

That Pakistan team won zero series' in Australia and West Indies, which were the top 2 Test sides in the world at that point. They couldn't beat WI even on home soil..

Didn't have an impeccable home record too as they drew multiple series including one against a mediocre Indian team and also drew in Sri Lanka to a minnow level SL test team.

Sorry. Not my GOAT Asian Test Team.

 

[Faiz1978]

That Pakistan team won zero series' in Australia and West Indies, which were the top 2 Test sides in the world at that point. They couldn't beat WI even on home soil..

Didn't have an impeccable home record too as they drew multiple series including one against a mediocre Indian team and also drew in Sri Lanka to a minnow level SL test team.

Sorry. Not my GOAT Asian Test Team.

Mighty WI team could not win single series Pakistan 12-13 series , Pakistan won series in India won series in England, NZ , drew series with West Indies in 1987 , in these 8 years they lost only one series in Australia and last test draw because of rain that series would have been drew too , keep in mind these records not against neutral umpires and winning series against host in those days was mighty task because of biased umpiring.

 

[mastimasti]

Agreed. No need to label India as the greatest Asian test team right now. ICC test rankings not withstanding, it seems WTC test was lost.
However, I do believe they are closest to being the greatest among all as I don't rate New Zealand much outside their their home conditions.

Also, a contradiction in these two statements
1) New Zealand best side in the world (no matter they won the last cycle based on their home test record.
2) India not the best side as they beat a depleted English side (no matter they beat Australia with a depleted side themselves)

I don't think I have ever made statement number one. I think NZ are the best side in the world at this very moment because they won the WTC final and that's that. No one labels the winner of the FIFA World Cup a 2nd or 3rd best side...however, over the course of the next cycle things change.

By the end of next year, with both sides having played more test cricket and seeing how competitive NZ can be away, that assessment may change.

I certainly believe India are one of the very best sides of recent years, and I can understand labeling them as say "1b" to NZ's "1a" (taking a bit of US sport terminology).

I also don't ever remember making point number too...India are definitely one of the vest best test sides right now...but to claim they are the greatest ever test Asian test after a victory in England, against a depleted side, is my contention. Both Pakistan and Sri Lanka have beaten better versions of England and I believe India 07 beat a better version too.

The Australia victories are terrific! But again, how do they compare to the titanic WI/Pak battles of the 80s? One series off set by terrible WI home umpiring decisions, or India's own titanic battles against the GOAT Australia XIs?

So there is a lot to discuss, but none of what I said are points 1 and 2

 

[OMB]

I don't think I have ever made statement number one. I think NZ are the best side in the world at this very moment because they won the WTC final and that's that. No one labels the winner of the FIFA World Cup a 2nd or 3rd best side...however, over the course of the next cycle things change.

By the end of next year, with both sides having played more test cricket and seeing how competitive NZ can be away, that assessment may change.

I certainly believe India are one of the very best sides of recent years, and I can understand labeling them as say "1b" to NZ's "1a" (taking a bit of US sport terminology).

I also don't ever remember making point number too...India are definitely one of the vest best test sides right now...but to claim they are the greatest ever test Asian test after a victory in England, against a depleted side, is my contention. Both Pakistan and Sri Lanka have beaten better versions of England and I believe India 07 beat a better version too.

The Australia victories are terrific! But again, how do they compare to the titanic WI/Pak battles of the 80s? One series off set by terrible WI home umpiring decisions, or India's own titanic battles against the GOAT Australia XIs?

So there is a lot to discuss, but none of what I said are points 1 and 2

It was a general post. Reply to you was only for agreeing with "lets not get carried away".
probably should have clarified

 

[OMB]

I don't think I have ever made statement number one. I think NZ are the best side in the world at this very moment because they won the WTC final and that's that. No one labels the winner of the FIFA World Cup a 2nd or 3rd best side...however, over the course of the next cycle things change.

By the end of next year, with both sides having played more test cricket and seeing how competitive NZ can be away, that assessment may change.

I certainly believe India are one of the very best sides of recent years, and I can understand labeling them as say "1b" to NZ's "1a" (taking a bit of US sport terminology).

I also don't ever remember making point number too...India are definitely one of the vest best test sides right now...but to claim they are the greatest ever test Asian test after a victory in England, against a depleted side, is my contention. Both Pakistan and Sri Lanka have beaten better versions of England and I believe India 07 beat a better version too.

The Australia victories are terrific! But again, how do they compare to the titanic WI/Pak battles of the 80s? One series off set by terrible WI home umpiring decisions, or India's own titanic battles against the GOAT Australia XIs?

So there is a lot to discuss, but none of what I said are points 1 and 2

No denying NZ are world champions...just that tests are different games unlike shorter format cricket and oneoff test seems unfair.

Why is WTC not being played in India?
and if Football is going to be quoted, what about leagues? why not have home and away matches?

 

[jusarrived]

Purely based on results, home dominance and results in SENA, no other sides would come close. I personally think 2007-2011 Indian side had more quality, especially in batting but in the end wins are what matter.

 

[jusarrived]

Mighty WI team could not win single series Pakistan 12-13 series , Pakistan won series in India won series in England, NZ , drew series with West Indies in 1987 , in these 8 years they lost only one series in Australia and last test draw because of rain that series would have been drew too , keep in mind these records not against neutral umpires and winning series against host in those days was mighty task because of biased umpiring.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too

 

[Faiz1978]

You can’t have your cake and eat it too

Whats is relevance of this here ? please let me know

 

[Abdurmirr]

Looks like India's going to achieve series wins in both Australia and England within the same year.

is there any other criteria that needs to be filled before we can say this is the definitive GOAT Asian test team?

 

[Ab Fan]

This Indian team was not the GOAT Asian test team when this thread was created. All credit goes to our brother [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] Bhai, who when he created this thread, I knew that India will now go on to become the greatest Asian test team of all-time.

Since then, India has won test series in Australia with a depleted side and is now leading this series 2-1 vs England side. With this, it is fair to say that India are the greatest Asian test side of all-time.

No surprises here. Brother, Mamoon is never wrong. This is not cheerleading but pure analytical skills. This was bound to happen as we have the team that has talent, mentality and hunger for wins like no other Asian test team ever had.

 

[mastimasti]

No denying NZ are world champions...just that tests are different games unlike shorter format cricket and oneoff test seems unfair.

Why is WTC not being played in India?
and if Football is going to be quoted, what about leagues? why not have home and away matches?

Ahh, if we're discussing the formatting of the WTC then I completely agree, there is room for improvement.

The first WTC final was played in England, same as the first 2 World Cups...it is regarded as the home of cricket.

In the future, I like the idea of a neutral venue, could be England again, or could be Aus, or could be UAE...but it should be played across 3 test matches. The problem is global scheduling and the money that this would likely lose.

NZ beat India fair and square under the current system.

You have also discussed the idea of a league format, which the WTC essentially is, with home and away series but we have a team like India, my team, your team, refusing to play Pakistan on some made up, quite frankly bigoted political nonsense, currently led by a man, who until election, was regarded on a global scale as a mass murdering maniac. So as Indians, we can not be high and mighty about league formats and home and away matches.

 

[cricketjoshila]

this team lost against NZ all 3 test , 2 in NZ and 1 in neutral ground in England , this is not great team. Best Asian team was Pakistan from 1985 to 1993 , check records you will understand .

Australia lost against India in 2001 and then drew at home in 2004. Not a GOAT team i guess.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Australia lost against India in 2001 and then drew at home in 2004. Not a GOAT team i guess.

Also in 2001 we were missing Srinath and Kumble, our best bowlers especially at home.

Australia also got hammered in 1996 and 1998 in India, when our attack was led by Dodda Ganesh and Nilesh Kulkarni lmao. A nobody like Nayan Mongia was scoring more than whole Australian team.

Seems some people on this forum can't make sense of how conditions play a part in cricket.

 

[TheSultan]

On a serious note, as a Pakistani it is always difficult to give credit to India. However, they are a watchable side and I admire their strength and resolve. Their bowling - for an Indian side - is fantastic.

But keep things in perspective - talking about GOAT status is ridiculous. You just lost to NZ in the highest stakes test match in recent times. You just got bowled for under 80 twice in a year. You just got thrashed by an innings vs a stokeless England. Have some humility.

Imran’s 88 and Javed’s 92 team did not think about GOAT this and GOAT that, they just played to win whatever was put in front of them. We as fans didn’t care either, we just enjoyed the ride.

History will judge how great or not so great this indian team is / was. History judged Imran’s team as great AFTER that era not during the era.

Indian fans should enjoy their team - it is a good side. Forget all the noise. I don’t understand why they always want to promote all this “greatest batsman”, “greatest team” etc.

 

[OMB]

Ahh, if we're discussing the formatting of the WTC then I completely agree, there is room for improvement.

The first WTC final was played in England, same as the first 2 World Cups...it is regarded as the home of cricket.

In the future, I like the idea of a neutral venue, could be England again, or could be Aus, or could be UAE...but it should be played across 3 test matches. The problem is global scheduling and the money that this would likely lose.

NZ beat India fair and square under the current system.

You have also discussed the idea of a league format, which the WTC essentially is, with home and away series but we have a team like India, my team, your team, refusing to play Pakistan on some made up, quite frankly bigoted political nonsense, currently led by a man, who until election, was regarded on a global scale as a mass murdering maniac. So as Indians, we can not be high and mighty about league formats and home and away matches.

I can only respond to the relevant cricketing matters of your post.

Neutral venue - Good idea.
League format where table toppers take the trophy after playing each other in a Home and Away series is possible even for India and Pakistan as they can play each other at a neutral venue.

It is another thing that this is not happening due to the financial muscle of the Big 3. Probably too much of cricket is in the hands of broadcaster and sponsors.
You don't see that happening in Olympics or Gran Prix.

WTC is a test based and test cricket is a long format game so Understandable that WTC will nto be abel to do a league. It now will have % point scoring system but that still has gaps like it doesn't differentiate between the 2 test series and 5 test series.

 

[Faiz1978]

Also in 2001 we were missing Srinath and Kumble, our best bowlers especially at home.

Australia also got hammered in 1996 and 1998 in India, when our attack was led by Dodda Ganesh and Nilesh Kulkarni lmao. A nobody like Nayan Mongia was scoring more than whole Australian team.

Seems some people on this forum can't make sense of how conditions play a part in cricket.

and in 2005 they won in India by 2-1 , 2007 again they won at home, in 2011 they won by 4-0 . reality is NZ is No.1 team at present ,keep in mind NZ also won series in England ,

 

[Rajdeep]

and in 2005 they won in India by 2-1 , 2007 again they won at home, in 2011 they won by 4-0 . reality is NZ is No.1 team at present ,keep in mind NZ also won series in England ,

NZ won 2 match series. Winning 2 match series is different to winning 5 game series.

In 2014, SL toured Eng and won the series 1-0 (2 match series). India toured next and were exactly 1-0 after 2 games but went onto lose the remaining 3 matches.

So winning 2 match test series like NZ / SL dont reflect the true picture.

 

[Faiz1978]

and in 2005 they won in India by 2-1 , 2007 again they won at home, in 2011 they won by 4-0 . reality is NZ is No.1 team at present ,keep in mind NZ also won series in England ,

and NZ beaten India first at home by 2-0 than in England WTC final

 

[Mesozoic]

On a serious note, as a Pakistani it is always difficult to give credit to India.

/thread

Pretty much sums up everything..

 

[Robert]

At the end of this year, this Indian team would have had
Away Test series win in England.

Don’t count your chickens just yet. Remember Leeds.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Don’t count your chickens just yet. Remember Leeds.

This, too early to come to conclusions. England very much in it and with India's comical middle order and Ashwin's absence there is every chance Leeds could repeat this week.

Tags like 'greatest', 'best ever' should be discussed much later. Anyway this thread was opened by a Pakistani poster and most posts here have been to exaggerate or ridicule India's test performances, spicy content because the topic is polarizing.

 

[Mesozoic]

Don’t count your chickens just yet. Remember Leeds.

Lightning doesn't strike twice.

Leeds ain't repeating again..

Just like Adelaide 36/9™ didn't repeat again..

Just like Chennai Test-1 didn't repeat again...


You guys have had your chance but you blew it.

Now get ready for 3-1...

 

[Faiz1978]

NZ won 2 match series. Winning 2 match series is different to winning 5 game series.

In 2014, SL toured Eng and won the series 1-0 (2 match series). India toured next and were exactly 1-0 after 2 games but went onto lose the remaining 3 matches.

So winning 2 match test series like NZ / SL dont reflect the true picture.

but 2 test series is reality because of financial issues , such a fragile batting line of team should we call GOAT, reality is this is worst English cricket team in last 15-16 years , both team have very poor & fragile batting.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Lightning doesn't strike twice.

Leeds ain't repeating again..

Just like Adelaide 36/9™ didn't repeat again..

Just like Chennai Test-1 didn't repeat again...


You guys have had your chance but you blew it.

Now get ready for 3-1...

Easy there brother...

Lets finish the series before beating our chest..

 

[mastimasti]

I can only respond to the relevant cricketing matters of your post.

Neutral venue - Good idea.
League format where table toppers take the trophy after playing each other in a Home and Away series is possible even for India and Pakistan as they can play each other at a neutral venue.

It is another thing that this is not happening due to the financial muscle of the Big 3. Probably too much of cricket is in the hands of broadcaster and sponsors.
You don't see that happening in Olympics or Gran Prix.

WTC is a test based and test cricket is a long format game so Understandable that WTC will nto be abel to do a league. It now will have % point scoring system but that still has gaps like it doesn't differentiate between the 2 test series and 5 test series.

And nor should it differentiate between 2 tests and 5 test series because these are dictated by financial pressures. There would also have to be differentiations between 3 tests and 2, 3 tests and 4, 4 and 5 and so on...

As for the India/Pakistan situation, let's be entirely honest, India would not play even at neutral venues. It wasn't so long ago our entire system was throwing tantrums and threatening to pull out of ICC tournaments because of Pakistan. Unless the BCCI cleans up its game, the league format makes no sense.

 

[mastimasti]

but 2 test series is reality because of financial issues , such a fragile batting line of team should we call GOAT, reality is this is worst English cricket team in last 15-16 years , both team have very poor & fragile batting.

The fielding has really disappointed. I always felt from the early 2010s to possibly 2016 ish, we were the best Asian fielding side around and arguably one of the best around. Yet the last few series standards have dropped...and the fact that we're now comparable to an England side with a terrible sli pcatching record and even a pretty bad outfield record is sad.

i feel like fitness levels are not what they once were. Pant is our keeper and is just carrying too much weight, Rohit still has a pot belly, Shardul looks like an Indian cricketer from the 80s lol But hey, I'll take fine bowling and grit above all that!

 

[Zaz]

On a serious note, as a Pakistani it is always difficult to give credit to India. However, they are a watchable side and I admire their strength and resolve. Their bowling - for an Indian side - is fantastic.

But keep things in perspective - talking about GOAT status is ridiculous. You just lost to NZ in the highest stakes test match in recent times. You just got bowled for under 80 twice in a year. You just got thrashed by an innings vs a stokeless England. Have some humility.

Imran’s 88 and Javed’s 92 team did not think about GOAT this and GOAT that, they just played to win whatever was put in front of them. We as fans didn’t care either, we just enjoyed the ride.

History will judge how great or not so great this indian team is / was. History judged Imran’s team as great AFTER that era not during the era.

Indian fans should enjoy their team - it is a good side. Forget all the noise. I don’t understand why they always want to promote all this “greatest batsman”, “greatest team” etc.

Well said Must be some complex History will be the judge not some indians sat behind a computer just cos they shout a lot in numbers

Just play and win Let the results decide for themselves
A win against this poor england batting team is nothing to be getting excited about

 

[Robert]

but 2 test series is reality because of financial issues , such a fragile batting line of team should we call GOAT, reality is this is worst English cricket team in last 15-16 years , both team have very poor & fragile batting.

I would go back further, perhaps to 1999 but even then England had Atherton, Stewart, Nasser, Gough and Caddick.

Before then in 1982 when the openers were Fowler and Tavaré, there was still Gower, Lamb and Botham.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Winning against this poor England team isn't a big accomplishment, England are a mediocre test side these days.

However beating an Australia wide that had Smith, Warner, Labuschagne, Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc was extremely impressive.

India is quite a bit above all test sides atm imo, only team that can beat any opponent either home or away. This is despite not having a single test ATG in their team (Kohli is not good enough to be a test ATG batting at no.4).

Talent wise, Pakistan in 80s and 90s was obviously far above. 3 undisputed ATG bowlers and several borderline ATG batsmen. Sadly Pakistan was never the undisputed best team in the world ever during that period.

 

[Buffet]

Winning against this poor England team isn't a big accomplishment, England are a mediocre test side these days.

However beating an Australia wide that had Smith, Warner, Labuschagne, Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc was extremely impressive.

India is quite a bit above all test sides atm imo, only team that can beat any opponent either home or away. This is despite not having a single test ATG in their team (Kohli is not good enough to be a test ATG batting at no.4).

Talent wise, Pakistan in 80s and 90s was obviously far above. 3 undisputed ATG bowlers and several borderline ATG batsmen. Sadly Pakistan was never the undisputed best team in the world ever during that period.

Who were those 3?

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Who were those 3?

Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis?

 

[Buffet]

Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis?

Waqar debuted in 89 so I won't count him in 80s at all.

Wasim averaged 28-29 in 80s, hardly an ATG performer.

IK was the only one.

 

[Faiz1978]

Winning against this poor England team isn't a big accomplishment, England are a mediocre test side these days.

However beating an Australia wide that had Smith, Warner, Labuschagne, Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc was extremely impressive.

India is quite a bit above all test sides atm imo, only team that can beat any opponent either home or away. This is despite not having a single test ATG in their team (Kohli is not good enough to be a test ATG batting at no.4).

Talent wise, Pakistan in 80s and 90s was obviously far above. 3 undisputed ATG bowlers and several borderline ATG batsmen. Sadly Pakistan was never the undisputed best team in the world ever during that period.

Its relative comparison because those days WI was unbelievably good, Aus too but Pakistan was good too , time I would say one of GOAT both in test and ODI .

 

[subshakerz]

On a serious note, as a Pakistani it is always difficult to give credit to India. However, they are a watchable side and I admire their strength and resolve. Their bowling - for an Indian side - is fantastic.

But keep things in perspective - talking about GOAT status is ridiculous. You just lost to NZ in the highest stakes test match in recent times. You just got bowled for under 80 twice in a year. You just got thrashed by an innings vs a stokeless England. Have some humility.

Imran’s 88 and Javed’s 92 team did not think about GOAT this and GOAT that, they just played to win whatever was put in front of them. We as fans didn’t care either, we just enjoyed the ride.

History will judge how great or not so great this indian team is / was. History judged Imran’s team as great AFTER that era not during the era.

Indian fans should enjoy their team - it is a good side. Forget all the noise. I don’t understand why they always want to promote all this “greatest batsman”, “greatest team” etc.

The problem isn't necessarily with this Indian team, which is a fine team. It is with Indian cricket today, which just exudes this insufferable arrogance, and I am not saying that as a Pakistani fan (frankly, I dont find this current Pakistani side worth supporting).

Indian cricket today, from its pundits to a large section of its fans, have their need to exert their claims on dominance that frankly are not reflected by their achievements on the field.

This is what head of BCCI, Ganguly, posted yesterday:
'Great show ..The skill is the difference but the biggest difference is the absorbing power of pressure..indian cricket is far ahead then the rest'

I don't recall during Australia's dominance in the 2000s or when South Africa were clear no.1 in the early 2010s (and better than the current Indian side) the need for their coaches or administrators to make such boastful claims. It is a real turnoff.

And what makes such statements worse is that this Indian side just lost an ICC World Test final, hasn't won an ICC trophy is years and has not even won the current series they are in!

And no, this is not jealousy. When Dhoni's team became no.1 in 2011, I had nothing but respect for that side, because generally you had a more humble setup, and Dravid, Kumble, Tendulkar and Dhoni let their performances on the field speak for them. There wasn't this sensationalism we see today.

I think it is sad because the current Indian side has some terrific cricketers like Bumrah, Pant and Kohli who are enjoyable to watch. But I can't help but want to root for the opposition every time they play, because I know that when they win, it will be another round of triumphialist nonsense exaggerating their achievements. At least when the Aussies of the 2000s were arrogant, you knew that they were so far ahead of the pack they it was merited in some respect.

 

[Bhaijaan]

India as a sports nation in general is making rapid progress. The success comes as no surprise but is a mere justification of all the investment and brain devoted into various sports. When we grew up, there was always a sense of sympathy with losing Indian athletes/teams because we knew from where they came, with no money, no proper diet, no vision from sports authorities or the government. Seeing them up with competitors from developed nations always seemed unfair to an extent respectable losses were often celebration-worthy.

It's not entirely the case in 2021 and ironically certain Indian athletes who are ranked much lower in their respective sports are now earning at par or in some cases even more than even the top ranked athletes worldwide. The prize money from governments, sponsorship deals and life long celebrity status some of our silver and bronze medalists from the Olympics have earned would make the gold medalists in their respective sports wish they were rather born in India instead.

As an artist and a sportsman there can be no greater motivation than the above. You become a star in India and you would literally be worth your weight in gold. With all the above, there is simply no room for not showing up, being a thorough professional and giving your 100%. If you cannot do that, go back to the slums and villages and die in oblivion.

Coming back to Cricket, this is where the journey has brought us and there is no looking back from here but go further up. It was inevitable. How are you going to compare this Indian unit to Imran's team or Kapils team. They were not as professionally managed as this current Indian team. I don't believe in such comparisons. I respect what our teams did in 1950s, 1960s, 1971, 1983, 1986 etc when our cricketing infra was nowhere near what it is today.

 

[Rajdeep]

I am not in 100% agreement: Ashish Nehra reacts to Ganguly's 'India far ahead then rest' statement

Former India pacer Ashish Nehra said he doesn't completely agree with BCCI president Sourav Ganguly's statement that Indian cricket is far ahead of the rest at present. Ganguly's remark came after India hammered England by 157 runs in the fourth Test of the ongoing five-match series at the Oval in London to go 2-1 up.

Congratulating the team on their historic win, Ganguly took to Twitter and wrote - "Great show ..The skill is the difference but the biggest difference is the absorbing power of pressure..indian cricket is far ahead than the rest [MENTION=14959]bcci[/MENTION]." During a discussion on Sony Sports, Nehra was asked to share his views on the same.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Great show ..The skill is the difference but the biggest difference is the absorbing power of pressure..indian cricket is far ahead then the rest <a href="https://twitter.com/BCCI?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw" [MENTION=14959]bcci[/MENTION]</a></p>— Sourav Ganguly (@SGanguly99) <a href="https://twitter.com/SGanguly99/status/1434915123232067585?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The former pacer, who played for a number of years under Ganguly for Team India, said he was not in 100% agreement with the BCCI president's claim. Nehra believes New Zealand are at par with Virat Kohli & Co. in both Tests and white-ball cricket at the moment. The Kiwis had defeated India in the final of the World Test Championship 20219-21 to lift the elusive trophy earlier this year.

You spoke about Sourav Ganguly's tweet that they have absorbed pressure very well but the Indian team way ahead of the rest. There, I am not in 100% agreement," said Nehra on Sony Sports.

"If you go just by the numbers, the New Zealand team has defeated you when you talk about the WTC. Just like it is his thinking, I believe that they are ahead but along with them, when you talk about Test cricket for the last one to one-and-a-half years, the Indian and New Zealand team are neck to neck," he said.

Nehra credited the Indian team for their superb show in the Test series against England and said the Kohli-led side has handled the pressure in a much better manner than the hosts. The former India pacer reckoned England have been hard done by injuries and absence of key players but insisted that New Zealand are one team close to the Indian side across all formats of the game.

"When you talk about the Indian team, whether you talk about the bowling or batting, there has been a lot of up and down in the last one to one-and-a-half years but whenever it has come to handle pressure away from home, the Indian team has done it a lot better than the English team," said Nehra.

England is also a good team, a lot of their players are injured as well but they lost to New Zealand also at home and drew the Ashes 2-2. So England is not going on winning at home. I will say New Zealand is the one team that is very close to the Indian team, whether it is the white ball or the red ball," he added.

India currently lead the five-match series 2-1 and will take on hosts England in the final fifth Test at the Old Trafford in Manchester from September 10.

https://www.timesnownews.com/sports...ndia-are-far-ahead-then-the-rest-claim/808862

 

[OMB]

I think Ganguly was talking about Indian Cricket and BCCI whereas Nehra is talking about the perofrmance of Men's team in Test cricket.

Both may be right in their opinions.

 

[wrongun]

Ganguly is getting carried away. NZ & the WTC just put that idea to bed for a year or two.

 

[OMB]

Ganguly is getting carried away. NZ & the WTC just put that idea to bed for a year or two.

No he is not.
He is talking about BCCI and the Indian cricketing setup as a whole. From the shambles in late 80's to early 2000's, it has indeed come a long way.

 

[Zaz]

No he is not.
He is talking about BCCI and the Indian cricketing setup as a whole. From the shambles in late 80's to early 2000's, it has indeed come a long way.

Err no he clearly meant its ahead of the rest of the world Which simply isnt true

They lost the wtc and havent even won the current series yet and the trumpeteers are out

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I think what Ganguly meant was that when it comes to mental toughness and absorbing pressure, Indian cricket is far ahead of the rest. Not that Indian cricket is far ahead overall.

If India has a skill level comparable to the opposition in a given set of conditions, they are favourites simply because they are the toughest team out there. As for the WTC final, NZ were simply a side with better skills in these conditions. No matter how mentally tough you are, you cannot bridge that big a skills gap in the conditions.