What's new

The ''hype'' around Jofra Archer and Mark Wood's pace

Thunderbolt14 said:
I am happy for England, I really am. I have pure admiration for Stokes and the way he finished that game, even if he got lucky on the way. He truly deserved that moment. But while I believe Jofra bowled quite well, I don’t think he bowled any better than say Shaheen, Boult, Shami, or M Amir would have.

England won by the skin of their teeth and Jofra is given too much credit for that final over where the scores were leveled once more. Good prospect, I just disagree with people hyping him to the moon.
Click to expand...

People aren't hyping him to the moon. Archer was a key component of that world cup campaign but people must remember he has only played a handful of games. He is definitely not an automatic selection in tests and I've have Broad back in for him in the next game.

And as for that final over I thought Archer showed guts and nerves after being hit for 6 to come back and restrict the flow of runs, most people would have gone to pieces. Stokes did in that famous T20 final against West Indies.
 
Markhor said:
Naseem hasn't done anything yet against decent opposition.

Not saying the lad doesn't have talent or potential, but Wood helped bowl England to victory away in South Africa.
Click to expand...

Yeah he bowled in conditions were it suited wood sa pitches are bouncy naseem already has a hat trick even thou it's not the best team he played against but hat trick is a hat trick
 
Ludicrous decision by England to drop Broad over Wood. I mean they are playing in England for crying out loud. Who cares about pace?

No one knows the conditions better than Broad and Anderson and Wood's performance so far has proven what a selection blunder it was. Broad has every reason to be irate.
 
England are trying to prepare for life without Anderson and Broad which is going to be a reality eventually
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Ludicrous decision by England to drop Broad over Wood. I mean they are playing in England for crying out loud. Who cares about pace?

No one knows the conditions better than Broad and Anderson and Wood's performance so far has proven what a selection blunder it was. Broad has every reason to be irate.
Click to expand...

Well on recent form, Wood was brilliant in South Africa and deserves to be in the team over Archer. In this match so far he’s out bowled Archer and has bowled much quicker than him.

Personally, in my opinion, both Broad and Woakes should have played here. Not just for their swing bowling but for their relatively better batting skills. Woakes at 8/9 could have gotten some crucial runs.
 
Savak said:
England are trying to prepare for life without Anderson and Broad which is going to be a reality eventually
Click to expand...

That’s not true, England said they would pick the best available squad for the first match. So they chose this bowling lineup because they thought it was the best one for this conditions - clearly that is a mistake.

Trying to plan for the future has nothing to do with it. This is the first match of the series, not a dead rubber.
 
ssuhaide said:
People aren't hyping him to the moon. Archer was a key component of that world cup campaign but people must remember he has only played a handful of games. He is definitely not an automatic selection in tests and I've have Broad back in for him in the next game.

And as for that final over I thought Archer showed guts and nerves after being hit for 6 to come back and restrict the flow of runs, most people would have gone to pieces. Stokes did in that famous T20 final against West Indies.
Click to expand...

See the other thread. “How will Pakistani batsmen deal with Jofra Archer”. He isn’t even the main English threat, I’m more worried about Anderson, Wood, Woakes, and Broad if he plays.
 
The proof will be in the pudding. When England have to try and defend a small-ish total tomorrow — in a situation that seems tailor-made for Stuart Broad, of course — we will see if they picked the correct bowling lineup or not. Personally, I suspect not.
 
These two still have something about them atleast but to me there ought to be more talk about Joe Denly's pace as he walks back to the pavillion each time
 
You need to understand that we are into the second half of the English summer.

It’s drier and hotter and the ball doesn’t seam and swing around like it does in May and June - which is why Mohammad Abbas may well struggle.

The West Indies have a pitifully weak batting line/up and will require around 200 to win. Archer and Wood - and Bess - may play a big role.
 
Junaids said:
You need to understand that we are into the second half of the English summer.

It’s drier and hotter and the ball doesn’t seam and swing around like it does in May and June - which is why Mohammad Abbas may well struggle.

The West Indies have a pitifully weak batting line/up and will require around 200 to win. Archer and Wood - and Bess - may play a big role.
Click to expand...

Woulsnt that suit him like uea were its dry and hot
 
Forum363 said:
Well on recent form, Wood was brilliant in South Africa and deserves to be in the team over Archer. In this match so far he’s out bowled Archer and has bowled much quicker than him.

Personally, in my opinion, both Broad and Woakes should have played here. Not just for their swing bowling but for their relatively better batting skills. Woakes at 8/9 could have gotten some crucial runs.
Click to expand...

He's injury prone and nowhere near Archer's level. South Africa and Australia suit his style of bowling but in England control is much more important than pace.

On this pitch however, Woakes and Broad would have been better suited than Archer and Wood.
 
Junaids said:
In general, in England medium pacers do well until mid-July and then faster bowlers do better in August.
Click to expand...

Very true. Do you think this is to Pakistan’s benefit in Shaheen and Naseem andAnderson being neutralized or would England benefit more via Archer and Wood?
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Jofra also got too much adulation for hitting Steve Smith in the head in the Ashes right after, as opposed to taking his wicket which I would have been more impressed by.
Click to expand...

He took two sixfers against the Australians.
 
Robert said:
He took two sixfers against the Australians.
Click to expand...

Sure, which is definitely solid. I don’t doubt that. And the way he’s bowling, he might get a 5-fer today. He just has yet to take the wicket of stronger batsmen and in not so easy bowling conditions.

In other words, I fully agree with you that he’s a valuable asset to the English side. I just think he’s being overhyped and isn’t even the biggest threat within his own team. I’d be happy when he proves me wrong.
 
Archer is a quality bowler. Can't believe posters on here and others on social media predicting his downfall.
 
To be fair both have tried very hard in the second innings, especially Archer.

Questions will be asked though about Wood being picked over Broad in the current Test.
 
Archer is the best in the world.

Wood is more effective overseas, but you cannot leave him out. His pace will always make him a major threat.
 
Mamoon said:
Archer is the best in the world.

Wood is more effective overseas, but you cannot leave him out. His pace will always make him a major threat.
Click to expand...

Archer is enough. I wouldn’t have dropped Broad for Wood.
 
So there it is, WI win. Archer deserves this humiliation.
 
Kroll said:
So there it is, WI win. Archer deserves this humiliation.
Click to expand...

Bit harsh? He bowled very well in the second innings, and it’s a three-test series. A long way to go yet.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
So whats the verdict now?
Archer has a habit of making brutal comebacks.
Click to expand...

Yeah, so brutal that Eng lost and he picked up 3 wickets which is his grand total for the whole Test match. I think even Yasir Shah can just about manage 3 wickets in a Test. :)
 
Kroll said:
Yeah, so brutal that Eng lost and he picked up 3 wickets which is his grand total for the whole Test match. I think even Yasir Shah can just about manage 3 wickets in a Test. :)
Click to expand...

But archer is better than shaheen hes a great bowler even regarded as the best lol
 
James said:
Bit harsh? He bowled very well in the second innings, and it’s a three-test series. A long way to go yet.
Click to expand...

Not harsh hes a good bowler but no were near bumra or hazelwood level hes shaheens level
 
Mamoon said:
Archer is the best in the world.

Wood is more effective overseas, but you cannot leave him out. His pace will always make him a major threat.
Click to expand...

Once again - I just want clarify. You actually think Jofra is a better bowler than Cummins, Rabada, Hazlewood?? How can even you justify that. He’s better than Bumrah after a handful of ODIs and just one t20????

Before you ask me what the cutoff point would be etc, that’s not the point. It’s so clear that single digit number of matches - half of which he has been rubbish in - are not enough to make someone the best in the world.
 
Forum363 said:
Once again - I just want clarify. You actually think Jofra is a better bowler than Cummins, Rabada, Hazlewood?? How can even you justify that. He’s better than Bumrah after a handful of ODIs and just one t20????

Before you ask me what the cutoff point would be etc, that’s not the point. It’s so clear that single digit number of matches - half of which he has been rubbish in - are not enough to make someone the best in the world.
Click to expand...

I have explained this before but I will do it again anyway.

I consider the following fast bowlers to be better than Archer:

Tests - Cummins
ODIs & T20s - Starc

But Cummins is not elite quality in white ball cricket and Starc is a reckless Test bowler.

In comparison, I think Archer is terrific in all three formats. He has the pace, the bounce and the attitude to excel in all three formats.

Cummins can be lethal in white ball cricket because he has all the qualities, but at times it feels like he is holding himself back and saving himself for Test cricket which is understandable.

The only bowler who makes a strong case for the best fast bowler across formats title is Rabada, but I think Archer is a superior version.

Bumrah has made a huge impact but I don’t think he has a sustainable action - he is basically one serious injury away from being obsolete, and even without any injuries, it is difficult to see him maintaining this intensity in his 30’s.

Archer has probably the most effortless bowling action I have ever seen. It is remarkable how he ambles into the crease with the same intensity and speed as Holder, but is actually capable of breaking the 96 mph barrier.

With his effortless action, he can have multiple injuries and still bowl 90+ at the age of 36-37 like Ambrose and Donald.

I don’t remember the last time I was so impressed with a newcomer fast bowler. I have had him in my world XI in all three formats after pretty much his first over in international cricket.
 
James said:
Bit harsh? He bowled very well in the second innings, and it’s a three-test series. A long way to go yet.
Click to expand...

Possibly, but it was a reality check when you get hyped to the moon. Young Archer will learn from being brought back down to earth.

However, what I would say is that Archer has been good in LOI formats. Playing him across all three formats could end up being his downfall.
 
Mamoon said:
Archer is the best in the world.

Wood is more effective overseas, but you cannot leave him out. His pace will always make him a major threat.
Click to expand...

one of*. I wouldn't take him over bumrah, rabada and cummins who imo are better at their best.
. He is levels above starc, the other overrated Aussie quicks like hazelwood etc.

shaheen is too young but he has potential to be as good as joffra if not better.
 
cummins is not good enough in odi. As an overall bowler across formats playing at their best, the rankings would be;

bumrah
joffra
shami
rabada
cummins
shaheen
 
Archer bowled a fearsome spell today. There were periods where he was really dialing up the pace too, to 144-145. Reminded everyone that he is just as good he is hyped to be. Wood didn't look good for many periods of the match. Blew hot and cold. England need to bring back Broad in place of him.
 
Last edited:
broad will always be broad. broad > Anderson and wood put together.

England need broad and root.

But still no excuses for not winning at home without their 2 best players.

India would still wallop teams at home without kohli or puji.
 
There was a clear and eternal lesson here.

On a fairly flat pitch with no seam or swing movement, we had two bowlers of fairly similar near-express pace.

The guy who is taller bowled a full length and had the batsmen hopping around trying to deal with sharp lift at high pace.

And the guy who is just a touch over 5'10 had no such lift, and was easy to play on the final day.

It's why Shaheen Shah Afridi is a gift for eternity for Pakistan.
 
Mamoon said:
Archer is the best in the world.

Wood is more effective overseas, but you cannot leave him out. His pace will always make him a major threat.
Click to expand...

Whats the verdict now on joss butler? Has he turned out to be as good as AB in tests
 
Smudger said:
Whats the verdict now on joss butler? Has he turned out to be as good as AB in tests
Click to expand...

England selectors are still convinced he is Gilchrist in tests.

Him not scoring any runs in the lower order is a reason why eng collapsed day 4 anf lost
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Archer bowled a fearsome spell today. There were periods where he was really dialing up the pace too, to 144-145. Reminded everyone that he is just as good he is hyped to be. Wood didn't look good for many periods of the match. Blew hot and cold. England need to bring back Broad in place of him.
Click to expand...

So that’s 90 mph to Wood’s 95.

But you have to put it in the right place and Archer got better during that match after one of his medium pace displays in the first, so I expect Broad back for Wood next test.
 
Junaids said:
There was a clear and eternal lesson here.

On a fairly flat pitch with no seam or swing movement, we had two bowlers of fairly similar near-express pace.

The guy who is taller bowled a full length and had the batsmen hopping around trying to deal with sharp lift at high pace.

And the guy who is just a touch over 5'10 had no such lift, and was easy to play on the final day.

It's why Shaheen Shah Afridi is a gift for eternity for Pakistan.
Click to expand...

True. Height trumps all in fast bowling. Pakistan should bring in Mohammad Irfan if the pitches continues to remain flat. He has an even higher release than Jason holder.
 
Robert said:
Malcolm Marshall was five foot eleven yet had a better strike rate than Joel Garner who was six foot seven.
Click to expand...

True. And Dale Steyn at 5'11" has the greatest strike rate of all but these are outliers . Steyn could swing the kookaburra more than any other bowler in the modern era and maintained high average speeds at his peak. Also bowled a fairly high percentage of fast, effective bouncers. Not a lot of bowlers could combine , speed, aggression and skill the way he could. However, everything else being equal , higher release heights are certainly advantageous in test cricket and is a good predictor of success.
 
Junaids said:
There was a clear and eternal lesson here.

On a fairly flat pitch with no seam or swing movement, we had two bowlers of fairly similar near-express pace.

The guy who is taller bowled a full length and had the batsmen hopping around trying to deal with sharp lift at high pace.

And the guy who is just a touch over 5'10 had no such lift, and was easy to play on the final day.

It's why Shaheen Shah Afridi is a gift for eternity for Pakistan.
Click to expand...

that's more to do with skill than anything else. wood sucks in terms of skill.

put steyn in that pitch and see what happens.
 
Robert said:
So that’s 90 mph to Wood’s 95.

But you have to put it in the right place and Archer got better during that match after one of his medium pace displays in the first, so I expect Broad back for Wood next test.
Click to expand...

Exactly that was the difference between Archer and Wood for me. Wood was obviously bowling faster but Archer's lines, particularly in the first spell were immaculate. The delivery he bowled to get rid was Chase was an absolute ripper and it wasn't even that fast. It was definitely below 140 from what I remember.
 
Mamoon said:
Archer is the best in the world.

Wood is more effective overseas, but you cannot leave him out. His pace will always make him a major threat.
Click to expand...

I agree but I don't think he's a first pick by any stretch in England. I get they played him because he did well in South Africa but I would much rather have Broad in his place, and if he's not available then Woakes.
 
Seems to be unravelling fast due to injuries to both.
 
Mamoon said:
I have explained this before but I will do it again anyway.

I consider the following fast bowlers to be better than Archer:

Tests - Cummins
ODIs & T20s - Starc

But Cummins is not elite quality in white ball cricket and Starc is a reckless Test bowler.

In comparison, I think Archer is terrific in all three formats. He has the pace, the bounce and the attitude to excel in all three formats.

Cummins can be lethal in white ball cricket because he has all the qualities, but at times it feels like he is holding himself back and saving himself for Test cricket which is understandable.

The only bowler who makes a strong case for the best fast bowler across formats title is Rabada, but I think Archer is a superior version.

Bumrah has made a huge impact but I don’t think he has a sustainable action - he is basically one serious injury away from being obsolete, and even without any injuries, it is difficult to see him maintaining this intensity in his 30’s.

Archer has probably the most effortless bowling action I have ever seen. It is remarkable how he ambles into the crease with the same intensity and speed as Holder, but is actually capable of breaking the 96 mph barrier.

With his effortless action, he can have multiple injuries and still bowl 90+ at the age of 36-37 like Ambrose and Donald.

I don’t remember the last time I was so impressed with a newcomer fast bowler. I have had him in my world XI in all three formats after pretty much his first over in international cricket.
Click to expand...

Hindsight is a beautiful thing but even then your views were ridiculous.
 
Mark Wood hardly plays but whenever he does play he has bowled some Shoaib esque spells. Not hyberbolic to compare him to the speed demon bowlers of the past.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Mark Wood hardly plays but whenever he does play he has bowled some Shoaib esque spells. Not hyberbolic to compare him to the speed demon bowlers of the past.
Click to expand...

He managed two years without injury and bowled the most overs in the Ashes. I just wish Root had seen sense and given him the new ball instead of wasting him as a stock / brake bowler.
 
I think after Pakistan cricket which have lost quite a few pacers to injuries and other issues its England team which other than the old horses Anderson and Broad has been struggling with pacers struggling to keep themselves match fit for longer formats especially. Yes it happens here and there with other teams but, not as much I believe.
 
England fast bowler Mark Wood will have further elbow surgery in a bid to be fit for the T20 World Cup in October.

Wood, 32, had an operation on his right elbow in March to "address an impingement problem" sustained during England's tour of West Indies.

He played club cricket on Saturday as part of his comeback but said the issue has "not pulled up well".

Wood will have a second operation this weekend and is set to miss the rest of England's summer.

"I have been bowling for the last two or three weeks in the nets, getting up to good pace, top speed, but it seems to keep deteriorating," Wood told BBC Test Match Special.

"I played a club game to test it out and unfortunately it has not pulled up well.

"To be ready for the World Cup I will have to have that surgery done."

Wood's setback is a further blow to England's depleted bowling stocks with Jofra Archer, Chris Woakes Saqib Mahmood, Ollie Robinson and Matt Fisher also sidelined.

Wood is one of England's fastest bowlers and has been a key member of England teams across all formats.

He has played 26 Tests, 57 one-day internationals and 19 Twenty20s for England, but has not featured since the tour to the Caribbean in March.

England's first game of the World Cup, which will be held in Australia, is on 22 October against Afghanistan.

BBC
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Indiafan
Jofra Archer out of the second Test, warned and fined for breaching bio-secure protocols
2
Replies
87
Views
7K
shamaan
S
MenInG
"Jofra Archer is a future superstar" : Courtney Walsh
Replies
15
Views
1K
sweep_shot
sweep_shot
MenInG
"If I sneeze too hard it's going to be headlines" : Jofra Archer
2
Replies
82
Views
6K
Cricket Warrior
Cricket Warrior
B
Why we need fast bowlers - Jofra Archer
Replies
8
Views
1K
sweep_shot
sweep_shot
MenInG
"He hasn’t actually got me out," says Steve Smith about Jofra Archer!
Replies
9
Views
3K
MenInG
MenInG
Back
Top