The hypocrisy of Imran Khan and PTI supporters when it comes to Parvez Musharraf

[marlonbrowndo]

Some of the most vocal supporters of Musharraf throughout this whole ordeal have been PTI supporters. (I have my own views on Musharraf that I won’t talk about here and I strongly disagree with the medieval wording of the judgement against him)

At the same time Imran khan and his supporters, from the very beginning, have been extremely critical of American involvement in Pakistan. (Something I myself also heavily despise).

It is well known that Musharraf is one of the main reasons why we became America’s slaves and did their bidding. So how can one be against American interference and at the same time support Musharraf? Can someone explain this to me?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Im a overseas PTI supporter but Pakistan will always come first ahead of Imran Khan or the Army.

Dont care about his case because Mush is a clear traitor. Once you give away your soveriegty and allow others to bomb your land, kill your kids you are no longer a patriot but siding with the enemy.

Can anyone post a video of Imran discussing this and his views?

 

[Mamoon]

This is only one aspect of his hypocrisy. He is the biggest fake and con-artist produced by Pakistan.

PTI is the biggest scam that this country has witnessed. The narrative has been sent and people have been infected by a lethal virus.

However, this nightmare will be over one day. This too shall pass.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This is only one aspect of his hypocrisy. He is the biggest fake and con-artist produced by Pakistan.

PTI is the biggest scam that this country has witnessed. The narrative has been sent and people have been infected by a lethal virus.

However, this nightmare will be over one day. This too shall pass.

Not you again.

1. A person who wants India to bomb Pakistani children has no moral highground to attack IK. lol

2. IK is still by far the best person to lead Pakistan by a country mile.

Imagine if you were in charge, Modi would be sitting in Islamabad.

 

[Pakistanian]

Every Pakistani Prime Minister and President has been a supporter of America and did our bidding, Musharraf made the best choice during 9/11 to save Pakistan. If you wanna hang him for siding with world's superpower like the heads of states of most other countries then you should also support execution of all the other Pakistani leaders both past and present for doing the same.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Im a overseas PTI supporter but Pakistan will always come first ahead of Imran Khan or the Army.

Dont care about his case because Mush is a clear traitor. Once you give away your soveriegty and allow others to bomb your land, kill your kids you are no longer a patriot but siding with the enemy.

Can anyone post a video of Imran discussing this and his views?

Would be interesting to see how Imran would respond if US 'requested' Pakistan permission to bomb FATA areas during his term. He was very vocally critical during Mush and Nawaz' time as PM because they basically gave US a free hand.

Personally I feel he would stand strong, most PMLN/PPP politicians wouldn't have the guts to criticise America publicly even from the sidelines.

 

[kk1992]

This is only one aspect of his hypocrisy. He is the biggest fake and con-artist produced by Pakistan.

PTI is the biggest scam that this country has witnessed. The narrative has been sent and people have been infected by a lethal virus.

However, this nightmare will be over one day. This too shall pass.

Biggest con artist?

How has he con you? Lol

 

[Greenstorm]

Every Pakistani Prime Minister and President has been a supporter of America and did our bidding, Musharraf made the best choice during 9/11 to save Pakistan. If you wanna hang him for siding with world's superpower like the heads of states of most other countries then you should also support execution of all the other Pakistani leaders both past and present for doing the same.

Siding with US was fine but he should have not sent our Army in tribal areas. They were not trained for this kind of combat and were initially slaughtered like lambs, not to mention the repercussions; series of bombing that we had to face for the next decade all because of one stupid decision. He did nothing to improve economy either.

Musharraf has to be among the worst things that happened to Pakistan.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Would be interesting to see how Imran would respond if US 'requested' Pakistan permission to bomb FATA areas during his term. He was very vocally critical during Mush and Nawaz' time as PM because they basically gave US a free hand.

Personally I feel he would stand strong, most PMLN/PPP politicians wouldn't have the guts to criticise America publicly even from the sidelines.

Imran promised no more drone strikes and in 2019 there has been 0 strikes. He has kept his word and will continue to do so. Imran isnt a bad person, he's a great man but he must choose between all out war against other parties and the army or allow some issues if it means he can improve the condition of Pakistan which he has done.

 

[PetroDollars]

one can only be completely insane to think mush made pakistan american slaves, those against it are no worse than al qaida and taliban, and should go to afganistan and join them instead of making pakistan a crap hole.

mush being in power during 9/11 literally saved pakistans **** from being kicked back into stone ages. only a taliban sympathizers would think overwise.

coming to IK then ye he does show alot of u turns and double standards, but dont forgot when he was against mush era, he was also nawaz sharifs, benezirs and itikar choudarys best mate,

 

[Pakistanian]

Siding with US was fine but he should have not sent our Army in tribal areas. They were not trained for this kind of combat and were initially slaughtered like lambs, not to mention the repercussions; series of bombing that we had to face for the next decade all because of one stupid decision. He did nothing to improve economy either.

Musharraf has to be among the worst things that happened to Pakistan.

Mush had to undo Zia's mistakes.

 

[PetroDollars]

Siding with US was fine but he should have not sent our Army in tribal areas. They were not trained for this kind of combat and were initially slaughtered like lambs, not to mention the repercussions; series of bombing that we had to face for the next decade all because of one stupid decision. He did nothing to improve economy either.

Musharraf has to be among the worst things that happened to Pakistan.

according to pak generals and defense analysts, this is the best thing that could have actully happened to the pak army they got battle hardened and war ready incase a war with india breaks out, the experience in the tribal areas is going to go a long way

 

[KingKhanWC]

one can only be completely insane to think mush made pakistan american slaves, those against it are no worse than al qaida and taliban, and should go to afganistan and join them instead of making pakistan a crap hole.

mush being in power during 9/11 literally saved pakistans **** from being kicked back into stone ages. only a taliban sympathizers would think overwise.

coming to IK then ye he does show alot of u turns and double standards, but dont forgot when he was against mush era, he was also nawaz sharifs, benezirs and itikar choudarys best mate,

I have replied to you on another thread, please respond and we can continue this discussion.

Mush saved nobody, he is responsible for 80,000 deaths in Pakistan amongst many other treasounous acts.

 

[Greenstorm]

Mush had to undo Zia's mistakes.

Nah, Zia had it covered.

 

[Greenstorm]

according to pak generals and defense analysts, this is the best thing that could have actully happened to the pak army they got battle hardened and war ready incase a war with india breaks out, the experience in the tribal areas is going to go a long way

It helped our army in the long run but it is foolish to train your army by fighting with your own people in your own country. Battles should always be fought outside of your territory otherwise you have already lost. This war could have been avoided but Mush was too stupid.

 

[PetroDollars]

It helped our army in the long run but it is foolish to train your army by fighting with your own people in your own country. Battles should always be fought outside of your territory otherwise you have already lost. This war could have been avoided but Mush was too stupid.

lol - avoided it then what, let the terroist run over the country - not great thinking is it.

they needed to be destoryed and they did and saved the lives of 180m people falling into the hands of terroists.

 

[PetroDollars]

I have replied to you on another thread, please respond and we can continue this discussion.

Mush saved nobody, he is responsible for 80,000 deaths in Pakistan amongst many other treasounous acts.

i will, when i have time, mush saved a nation from falling into terroist hands, those deaths you report are of soliders who gave there lives for you, so army may have given 1000 lives but in return saved the lives of 180m ordinary people, only a militant would not understand that.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Mush pretty much tried to clean up Zia's Mess. You can say what you want about the guy but his era ( when he had actual power) was pretty good for pakistan. It was peaceful and our economy was doing well .

 

[KingKhanWC]

i will, when i have time, mush saved a nation from falling into terroist hands, those deaths you report are of soliders who gave there lives for you, so army may have given 1000 lives but in return saved the lives of 180m ordinary people, only a militant would not understand that.

You've got time to repeat the same thing over again. Now you are becoming personal, so lets just continue here.

Only a coward would defend what Mush did. As I wrote in the other thread, Mushy didnt say he aligned because he was scared of 180m people would be killed lol. His excuse was India(which offered the US it's land) would get closer to the US. But this happened anyway, in fact worse as India used Afghan land to set up attacks in Pakistan.

No person can defend Mushy allowing a foriegn power to intrude on the soveriegnty of Pakistan allowing them to bomb Pakistani children. Becuause of this precident, Mushy paved the way for over 300 children being killed by US drones and now even India think it's fair game to fly into Pakistan.

 

[PetroDollars]

You've got time to repeat the same thing over again. Now you are becoming personal, so lets just continue here.

Only a coward would defend what Mush did. As I wrote in the other thread, Mushy didnt say he aligned because he was scared of 180m people would be killed lol. His excuse was India(which offered the US it's land) would get closer to the US. But this happened anyway, in fact worse as India used Afghan land to set up attacks in Pakistan.

No person can defend Mushy allowing a foriegn power to intrude on the soveriegnty of Pakistan allowing them to bomb Pakistani children. Becuause of this precident, Mushy paved the way for over 300 children being killed by US drones and now even India think it's fair game to fly into Pakistan.

repeat, no i was answering your post, if you say the same things i will say the same answer.

btw, i will rather support a coward who gave his life to his nation then a person or group who use religion to kill, bomb, rape people. if you choose the later its up to you.

So on to the rest of your post, what mush was saying about india is that it offered the US land for bases, where the US would fly over pakistans airspace to get to afganistan, violating pakistans sovereignty. If pakistan would have tried to stop them usa would have declared war, pakistan was isolated at the time, the whole planet was with USA after 9/11, did you really want pakistan going to war with USA?

Only an enemy could go against what mush did, because had it been someone else - pak would have sold off and americans would have had bases all over pak, mush joined WOT (which most of the world did) on his own terms, he dictated to the americans and ruled them with an iron fist - what ever lives you keep talking about were sacrifices made by the army to save 180m peoples lives, like is said Mush saved a nation.

Just to be clear im not a fan, in terms of mistakes in politics he made many, but what you are talking about is not one of them, he made the best decison in the interest of pakistan that could have been made at the time.

 

[KingKhanWC]

repeat, no i was answering your post, if you say the same things i will say the same answer.

btw, i will rather support a coward who gave his life to his nation then a person or group who use religion to kill, bomb, rape people. if you choose the later its up to you.

So on to the rest of your post, what mush was saying about india is that it offered the US land for bases, where the US would fly over pakistans airspace to get to afganistan, violating pakistans sovereignty. If pakistan would have tried to stop them usa would have declared war, pakistan was isolated at the time, the whole planet was with USA after 9/11, did you really want pakistan going to war with USA?

Only an enemy could go against what mush did, because had it been someone else - pak would have sold off and americans would have had bases all over pak, mush joined WOT (which most of the world did) on his own terms, he dictated to the americans and ruled them with an iron fist - what ever lives you keep talking about were sacrifices made by the army to save 180m peoples lives, like is said Mush saved a nation.

Just to be clear im not a fan, in terms of mistakes in politics he made many, but what you are talking about is not one of them, he made the best decison in the interest of pakistan that could have been made at the time.

I dont choose any lol. I choose a nuclear powered nation to at least keep it's soverienty.

US jets dont need to fly over Pakistan, they can fly over the sea and turn towrards Afghanistan. Check the globe.

Mush had no terms, once he agreed in return for the great $$$$$$ he had to go with whatever he was told to do.

US wont even bomb Iran which has no nukes so to say they would have started a war with Pakistan is delusional. What Mush did was to give the narrative to the terrorists, they then used the excuse Pakistan was part of the war of terror so it's fair game to attack it. Do you know the location of CIA base/offices in Afghanistan? Many near the Pak border.

Yanks were laughing a nuclear powered nation gave in so easily and fell for their trap and now with India can finance terrorists and send them in.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Mush here saying its an act of war if ANY nation invades Pakistans sovereignty. The fool forgot he already sold this out when he authorised Yanks drone bomb his people a few years ealier.

 

[mgtow]

Those who claims Musharraf was undoing the damage of Zia up Haq is nonsense considering Musharraf was biggest pushover who would have bent in anyways he would have as he did giving in to the pressure of USA. So-called brave man became coward overnight in regards to foreign policy with USA and India. Used to called politicians cowards in the past became coward instead.

If politicians were betraying Pakistan, then Musharraf was ten steps ahead in terms of destroying Pakistan and almost caused division Balochistan from Pakistan.

Musharraf was the reason terrorize outfits were out of control while allowed MQM to destabilize the economy of Karachi. To the extent, the timing of assassination of Benazir with the deals between Zardari and Musharraf put Pakistan to the edge of Pakistan which is taking maximum 10 years to recover.

Ironically, the recovery process started under the government of Nawaz Sharif while people gave credit to Raheel Sharif even though Musharraf was given powers which proved to be worst tenure for Pakistan while General Kiyani was kept at bay under the government of Zardari.

Main establishment or Generals in general don’t do well in managing the affairs of Pakistan. First, it was East Pakistan and then Balochistan was almost goner thanks to Musharraf’s policy as well as inflamed the hatred Afghanistan had for Pakistan became subsidy to India as launching pad to undermine the stability of Pakistan as whole.

Not to mention, Musharraf surrendered many people to USA which one of them was Aafia Sidiqqui who was dishonoured in the ways that should shame every Pakistanis particularly Muslims in this case. That is where Imranistan are nowhere to be found - so called moral saviour.

Musharraf must be sentenced to death for betraying Pakistan, the confidence of Pakistan and its trust - also its voices for Pakistan.

 

[miandadrules]

Im a overseas PTI supporter but Pakistan will always come first ahead of Imran Khan or the Army.

Dont care about his case because Mush is a clear traitor. Once you give away your soveriegty and allow others to bomb your land, kill your kids you are no longer a patriot but siding with the enemy.

Can anyone post a video of Imran discussing this and his views?

Musharaf is the traitor or the army establishment?

 

[miandadrules]

Every Pakistani Prime Minister and President has been a supporter of America and did our bidding, Musharraf made the best choice during 9/11 to save Pakistan. If you wanna hang him for siding with world's superpower like the heads of states of most other countries then you should also support execution of all the other Pakistani leaders both past and present for doing the same.

That narrative is one pushed by the army, to suggest they had no choice.

The army made the decision that was in its best interests financially and politically.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Musharaf is the traitor or the army establishment?

Mushy, the person in charge is always the person responsible. The Pakistan army has some of the bravest soldiers around and no other army has killed as many terrorists as they have.

The army leadership in power today are different. In 18/19 only 1 drone strike in Pakistan . They have also shown the US their footsoldiers have failed and Afghanistan is still ruled by local warlords not by their puppet government. The US now wants a peace deal.

 

[miandadrules]

Mushy, the person in charge is always the person responsible. The Pakistan army has some of the bravest soldiers around and no other army has killed as many terrorists as they have.

The army leadership in power today are different. In 18/19 only 1 drone strike in Pakistan . They have also shown the US their footsoldiers have failed and Afghanistan is still ruled by local warlords not by their puppet government. The US now wants a peace deal.

How can he solely be responsible?

If you say he is a traitor then the entire establishment that went along with it must also be traitors.

 

[KingKhanWC]

How can he solely be responsible?

If you say he is a traitor then the entire establishment that went along with it must also be traitors.

Sure anyone who advised him to do say are the same . But I dont know who did and the final say was Mush's. He could of ignored all advice or accepted it all.

Joining the war is one thing but allowing others to bomb your land is never acceptable. Dont take my word, see the video posted above. He called US choppers coming in an act of war but forgot he was the one who allowed them in first.


To all, I will reply after the weekend. Enjoy

 

[chacha kashmiri]

How can he solely be responsible?

If you say he is a traitor then the entire establishment that went along with it must also be traitors.

His charges were more to do with changing the constitution and then legalising it by becoming president

His charges of becoming a helper to American invasion and opening up the pre text of an aq attack on Pakistan soul,aren’t in the report by the judge
The legal establishment in Pakistan seem to be the only party capable of bringing musharraf to trial, with all the other parties incompetent, powerless and otherwise to do anything since musharraf staged his coup

 

[pakistanisgreat]

Where is this IK

 

[PetroDollars]

I dont choose any lol. I choose a nuclear powered nation to at least keep it's soverienty.

US jets dont need to fly over Pakistan, they can fly over the sea and turn towrards Afghanistan. Check the globe.

Mush had no terms, once he agreed in return for the great $$$$$$ he had to go with whatever he was told to do.

US wont even bomb Iran which has no nukes so to say they would have started a war with Pakistan is delusional. What Mush did was to give the narrative to the terrorists, they then used the excuse Pakistan was part of the war of terror so it's fair game to attack it. Do you know the location of CIA base/offices in Afghanistan? Many near the Pak border.

Yanks were laughing a nuclear powered nation gave in so easily and fell for their trap and now with India can finance terrorists and send them in.

you either choose terrorists coming into the cities and taking over the country, or you support the army in defending the country and wiping out the militants, you cant stand on the fence. lol - it seems you want to choose the terrorists.

as for the globe, i guess you just forgot to check the map before commenting, afganistan is a landlocked country, how did you expect the usa to turn into from the sea ) they were going to fly over pakistan whether you liked it or not.

All the terms on the wot were set by pakistan, like i said previously not a single convicted pakistani of terroism was handed over and was dealt by pakistani law.

Iran is not an issue here, there beef is with saudis and israelis, the worlds most wanted terroists are not sitting there, pakistan during 9/11 was getting isolated as the whole planet was with USA in capturing OBL, dont even compare it with iran.

yanks were itching to get rid of musharraf, he became a nuisance for them, hence the american support for democracy and bringing back bibi and ganja and supporting the lawyers movement. Like i said mush saved a nation, had it been someone else we were long gone.

...and dont give me that nonsense about a nuclear power, our nukes pose no threat to the US, we're you going to drop them? when you check the map come back to me.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

right now entire PTI is trying to save mush. Why we never accept judges's decision?

I know death penalty might be too much but judges are qualified and they know what they are doing.

If now they are trying to give decision against powerful department then we should support them.

 

[Greenstorm]

lol - avoided it then what, let the terroist run over the country - not great thinking is it.

they needed to be destoryed and they did and saved the lives of 180m people falling into the hands of terroists.

Tribals were not against us until Musharraf started military operation there. Foreign backed miscreants could have been dealt easily with the help of intelligence and local support. We should have kept local tribals on our sides instead of needlessly creating enemies out of them.

Its a myth that Mush cleaned up Zia's mess. Actually, Kayani and Raheel had to clean Mush's mess and they did that valiantly by saving our nation through fighting a difficult war at multiple non-conventional fronts.

 

[Mamoon]

Usually, it is the words of the opposition that are used against a leader.

However, Imran is the only leader whose own words are used against him. In other terms, the Imran of old is the biggest opposition to the present Imran.

It is both hilarious and pathetic.

 

[Mamoon]

Not you again.

1. A person who wants India to bomb Pakistani children has no moral highground to attack IK. lol

2. IK is still by far the best person to lead Pakistan by a country mile.

Imagine if you were in charge, Modi would be sitting in Islamabad.

If Pakistan refuses to do anything about the terrorists growing in its backyard who do terrorism on Indian soil, India are well within its right to act.

You cannot expect a country to do nothing when militants funded by another state are butchering it’s soldiers.

Pakistan refuses to hand over globally recognized terrorists and terrorist groups and then it complains when other countries take matters into their own hands.

Obviously a country that pretends to be a sovereign state has to fight back, so if India or any other country attacks terrorist hideouts in Pakistan, Pakistan will have to give a befitting reply even though Pakistan is the one to be blamed.

Furthermore, not just me. Any Prime Minister would strive to achieve peace with India and establish open trade ties because it is beneficial for both countries.

However, as long as the military remains the central power in Pakistan and shapes the foreign policy, it is not possible to achieve peace with India, because the military of Pakistan wins when there is tension with India.

As far as Modi is concerned, he is morphing into a fascist but we need to realize that people like him would not come into power in India if Pakistan and India were on friendly terms. He thrives on anti-Pakistan rhetoric which would not have worked if the two countries would have enjoyed positive diplomatic and economic terms.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

is it Abu saving effort my PTI as well???

 

[sindhiboy]

But But musharraf pegged ruppee to dollar at 60 rs

 

[pakistanisgreat]

But But musharraf pegged ruppee to dollar at 60 rs

the bigger question is where is that money go that we received in 2005 due to earthquake?

 

[PetroDollars]

Tribals were not against us until Musharraf started military operation there. Foreign backed miscreants could have been dealt easily with the help of intelligence and local support. We should have kept local tribals on our sides instead of needlessly creating enemies out of them.

Its a myth that Mush cleaned up Zia's mess. Actually, Kayani and Raheel had to clean Mush's mess and they did that valiantly by saving our nation through fighting a difficult war at multiple non-conventional fronts.

We already tried that, in swat with sufi muhammad and in lal mosque, look what happened.

tribals would have always been against you till you adopt sharia law in the country, make it a law women cant leave the house, close down the film,music indusries, close shops doing non islamic stuff etc.

they only have a one point agenda, to implement sharia law and till that doesnt happen they will not be on your sides, we ignored them and look how they were trying to take over islamabad. there is only one solution and that is to wipe them out, unless ofcourse if you support there actions and want a sharia dressed pakistan.

musharrafs actions were brave and made many sacrifices to protect the people and country from these lunatics.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

We already tried that, in swat with sufi muhammad and in lal mosque, look what happened.

tribals would have always been against you till you adopt sharia law in the country, make it a law women cant leave the house, close down the film,music indusries, close shops doing non islamic stuff etc.

they only have a one point agenda, to implement sharia law and till that doesnt happen they will not be on your sides, we ignored them and look how they were trying to take over islamabad. there is only one solution and that is to wipe them out, unless ofcourse if you support there actions and want a sharia dressed pakistan.

musharrafs actions were brave and made many sacrifices to protect the people and country from these lunatics.

there are things that mush did was so great. that was required at that time.
However, he made some huge blander as well like of constitution etc.
at the end of the day we are not perfect.

 

[miandadrules]

His charges were more to do with changing the constitution and then legalising it by becoming president

His charges of becoming a helper to American invasion and opening up the pre text of an aq attack on Pakistan soul,aren’t in the report by the judge
The legal establishment in Pakistan seem to be the only party capable of bringing musharraf to trial, with all the other parties incompetent, powerless and otherwise to do anything since musharraf staged his coup

You don’t change the constitution on your own.

Who was running the country at the time?

How many of the top brass resigned in protest?

This is all theatre.

The hypocrisy is shocking but predictable. Sacrifice Musharraf to save the army’s image.

 

[miandadrules]

Sure anyone who advised him to do say are the same . But I dont know who did and the final say was Mush's. He could of ignored all advice or accepted it all.

Joining the war is one thing but allowing others to bomb your land is never acceptable. Dont take my word, see the video posted above. He called US choppers coming in an act of war but forgot he was the one who allowed them in first.


To all, I will reply after the weekend. Enjoy

I don’t need to take anyone’s word for it.

I was the one speaking out about it, whilst the army bootlickers were defending it.

You say you don’t know who did what but are certain you want Mush to be put to death as a form of justice.

Don’t you think before you start baying for blood, that you would do some due diligence and really seek justice?

He allowed them to bomb on his own?

How many of the top brass resigned in protest?

It’s funny how the army’s tact changed once the drone programme was exposed. In fact the army was a very active participant in this vile
Programme.

But something tells me you won’t be screaming for justice anytime soon.

 

[Greenstorm]

We already tried that, in swat with sufi muhammad and in lal mosque, look what happened.

tribals would have always been against you till you adopt sharia law in the country, make it a law women cant leave the house, close down the film,music indusries, close shops doing non islamic stuff etc.

they only have a one point agenda, to implement sharia law and till that doesnt happen they will not be on your sides, we ignored them and look how they were trying to take over islamabad. there is only one solution and that is to wipe them out, unless ofcourse if you support there actions and want a sharia dressed pakistan.

musharrafs actions were brave and made many sacrifices to protect the people and country from these lunatics.

Again, Swat and lal Masjid were in reaction of Army operations in tribal areas.

Tribals were not against us before army operations. This whole sharia talk is nonsense. Even foreign tourists used to visit FATA and it was mostly a peaceful place for outsiders, they were infact treated as worthy guests according to tribal culture.
We ignored them and that was the best possible thing to do at the time. Slowly those areas could have been mainstreamed through peaceful means, it was inevitable.

It is heartning to see our tribal areas being brought upto modern times and writ of the state being established there but it could have been achieved by spilling far less blood if Musharaf had some common sense.

 

[Greenstorm]

You don’t change the constitution on your own.

Who was running the country at the time?

How many of the top brass resigned in protest?

This is all theatre.

The hypocrisy is shocking but predictable. Sacrifice Musharraf to save the army’s image.

Many in the top brass were against Musharraf. Some allegedly even orchestrated suicidal attacks on him. But they were all sidelined/punished by Musharaf and like minded officers were appointed.

What is your solution ? Hang the whole army ? Maybe that will satisfy you.

 

[PetroDollars]

Again, Swat and lal Masjid were in reaction of Army operations in tribal areas.

Tribals were not against us before army operations. This whole sharia talk is nonsense. Even foreign tourists used to visit FATA and it was mostly a peaceful place for outsiders, they were infact treated as worthy guests according to tribal culture.
We ignored them and that was the best possible thing to do at the time. Slowly those areas could have been mainstreamed through peaceful means, it was inevitable.

It is heartning to see our tribal areas being brought upto modern times and writ of the state being established there but it could have been achieved by spilling far less blood if Musharaf had some common sense.

not at all, swat and lal masjid were in reaction to the modernisation of the country, it was to implement a ******** version of sharia law by them, the reaction to army operations in tribal areas are done by those who attack the army with suicide bombers, swat and lal masjid had nothing to do with them, they wanted sharia law, sufi in swat was even given a peace deal, army operation came later because he was hell bent on created a sharia society.

Its actually the talk of tribal people being against us which is nonsense and made up by ttp and there supporters. in swat you should be aware the operation by army happened because the people called them on, army was going for peace deals.

As for tourists visiting tribal areas then LMAO - maybe if you consider tableegi jamaat as tourists.

the whole tribal area is misunderstood anyway- you need to realise there are many militant groups there, some pro pakistani and some anti pakistan, some give there alliance to taliban, some give there alliance to the norther alliance which is ttp, the majority of people come from afganistan and a huge number has come through since 9/11, musharrafs blunder was he didnt seal the border, now these people hated pakistan and its army before the operation because most where afgan immigrants, the pro pak factions who original belong there always supported the armys operation and infact helped with them.

you are right that tribal areas were peaceful and but there were no foreign tourists there and it became hell because of afgans crossing over after 9/11

So what mush did was the right thing and was very much needed.

 

[Greenstorm]

not at all, swat and lal masjid were in reaction to the modernisation of the country, it was to implement a ******** version of sharia law by them, the reaction to army operations in tribal areas are done by those who attack the army with suicide bombers, swat and lal masjid had nothing to do with them, they wanted sharia law, sufi in swat was even given a peace deal, army operation came later because he was hell bent on created a sharia society.

Its actually the talk of tribal people being against us which is nonsense and made up by ttp and there supporters. in swat you should be aware the operation by army happened because the people called them on, army was going for peace deals.

As for tourists visiting tribal areas then LMAO - maybe if you consider tableegi jamaat as tourists.

the whole tribal area is misunderstood anyway- you need to realise there are many militant groups there, some pro pakistani and some anti pakistan, some give there alliance to taliban, some give there alliance to the norther alliance which is ttp, the majority of people come from afganistan and a huge number has come through since 9/11, musharrafs blunder was he didnt seal the border, now these people hated pakistan and its army before the operation because most where afgan immigrants, the pro pak factions who original belong there always supported the armys operation and infact helped with them.

you are right that tribal areas were peaceful and but there were no foreign tourists there and it became hell because of afgans crossing over after 9/11

So what mush did was the right thing and was very much needed.

I agree that there were pro Pakistan elements in FATA and Mush should have approached these tribes and should have pitted them against miscreants. I am sure they could have dealt with our enemies by our help but instead he made all of them our enemy by sending in untrained, demotivated troops there which made matters worse. BTW, Swat is not part of FATA so its population was naturally with us.

As you have rightly pointed out, what Mush should have done was to seal/monitor the Afghan border first, allign as many local tribals as possible with the state and then conduct targeted intelligence based operations against anti-Pakistan groups with the help and consent of locals.

Allowing American drones to strike in Pakistan was another blunder. During Mush's tenure, many blackwater, CIA etc operatives acted with impunity in Pakistan and established there setups. Kayani had to fight almost a covert war against these agencies.

I am not even going to mention the NRO which he gave to loot khasoot group and thus doomed us for another decade. Pakistan was on the brink of collapse due to Mush and his policies and I won't mind one bit if he is hanged according to court's judgement.

 

[Hermoine Green]

You don’t change the constitution on your own.

Who was running the country at the time?

How many of the top brass resigned in protest?

This is all theatre.

The hypocrisy is shocking but predictable. Sacrifice Musharraf to save the army’s image.

And that's the important thing. Mushi did wrong, and should be punished. But others who were involved in the same thing, who legalized this crime should be dealth with accordingly also.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

And that's the important thing. Mushi did wrong, and should be punished. But others who were involved in the same thing, who legalized this crime should be dealth with accordingly also.

agree and that's what judges order now to this government that file a case against others as well.
Its up to this government if they will file that case. I highly doubt that they will do that.

 

[Hermoine Green]

agree and that's what judges order now to this government that file a case against others as well.
Its up to this government if they will file that case. I highly doubt that they will do that.

They did file an application against 3 major culprits and the same court REJECTED it.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

They did file an application against 3 major culprits and the same court REJECTED it.

which are those three?

 

[PetroDollars]

I agree that there were pro Pakistan elements in FATA and Mush should have approached these tribes and should have pitted them against miscreants. I am sure they could have dealt with our enemies by our help but instead he made all of them our enemy by sending in untrained, demotivated troops there which made matters worse. BTW, Swat is not part of FATA so its population was naturally with us.

As you have rightly pointed out, what Mush should have done was to seal/monitor the Afghan border first, allign as many local tribals as possible with the state and then conduct targeted intelligence based operations against anti-Pakistan groups with the help and consent of locals.

Allowing American drones to strike in Pakistan was another blunder. During Mush's tenure, many blackwater, CIA etc operatives acted with impunity in Pakistan and established there setups. Kayani had to fight almost a covert war against these agencies.

I am not even going to mention the NRO which he gave to loot khasoot group and thus doomed us for another decade. Pakistan was on the brink of collapse due to Mush and his policies and I won't mind one bit if he is hanged according to court's judgement.

Isi did engage pro pakistan elements in FATA and use them against the anti pak elements, however they were over whelmed by the amount that came in, still they worked with the army in fighting them, so what you say is what mush did, army and tribals worked side by side to fight and get rid of the infiltrants.
what like you say was the right thing, which mush did.

blackwater and these private armies were brought in by kayanni and zadari - mush protected pakistans sovereignity and if cia wanted something taken out - it needed to pass the info to pak army - hence why usa was supporting democracy and was itching to get mush removed, he dealt them with an iron fist, and them aware when it comes to pakistan - who is calling the shots. Kayanni/zadari later ofcourse gave usa the full authority to do what they like.

not talking about NRO, i was only responding to those who claimed mush made an error joining wot when he actully saved us by joining the war but on our on terms and anyone else would have sold us - ofcourse he made errors on the nro and others but on the WOT he was spot on, he took the best option and joined it on his own terms.

pakistan was on the brink of collapse but that was before mush came, he put pakistan through its biggest economic boom ever. that is not a collapse. Like i said before he saved a nation, if you want to hang saviors and reward the looters then pakistan deserves the mess democrazy gives it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

If Pakistan refuses to do anything about the terrorists growing in its backyard who do terrorism on Indian soil, India are well within its right to act.

You cannot expect a country to do nothing when militants funded by another state are butchering it’s soldiers.

Pakistan refuses to hand over globally recognized terrorists and terrorist groups and then it complains when other countries take matters into their own hands.

Obviously a country that pretends to be a sovereign state has to fight back, so if India or any other country attacks terrorist hideouts in Pakistan, Pakistan will have to give a befitting reply even though Pakistan is the one to be blamed.

Furthermore, not just me. Any Prime Minister would strive to achieve peace with India and establish open trade ties because it is beneficial for both countries.

However, as long as the military remains the central power in Pakistan and shapes the foreign policy, it is not possible to achieve peace with India, because the military of Pakistan wins when there is tension with India.

As far as Modi is concerned, he is morphing into a fascist but we need to realize that people like him would not come into power in India if Pakistan and India were on friendly terms. He thrives on anti-Pakistan rhetoric which would not have worked if the two countries would have enjoyed positive diplomatic and economic terms.

Just when I thought I'd heard it all lol.

Modi is in power due to the rise of Indian Hindu extremist along with a lack of belief in the Congress party, nothing to do with Pakistan.

Anyone who gives up soverignty or wants another nation to bomb it's people is a traitor, Mushy or you it doesn't matter.