China or Russiawould not dare to take on the US or Nato.
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The Middle East Crisis
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China or Russiawould not dare to take on the US or Nato.
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Kerry sounding almost disingenuous here, suggesting there is no military solution, then proceeding to say that they must attack Bashar Ul Assad
Robert
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Bloomberg says that Secretary Kerry has egg on his face over this - he announced the evidence of al-Assad's alleged chemical attack as conclusive, but now the US's #1 ally has looked at the evidence and found it not persuasive enough.
So.... now Congress is going to wonder: 1. what is wrong with Kerry's evidence; 2. why don't we get a vote like the Limey MPs?
So.... now Congress is going to wonder: 1. what is wrong with Kerry's evidence; 2. why don't we get a vote like the Limey MPs?
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Government Assessment of the Syrian Government’s Use of Chemical Weapons on August 21, 2013
The United States Government assesses with high confidence that the Syrian government carried out a chemical weapons attack in the Damascus suburbs on August 21, 2013. We further assess that the regime used a nerve agent in the attack. These all-source assessments are based on human, signals, and geospatial intelligence as well as a significant body of open source reporting.Our classified assessments have been shared with the U.S. Congress and key international partners. To protect sources and methods, we cannot publicly release all available intelligence – but what follows is an unclassified summary of the U.S. Intelligence Community’s analysis of what took place.
Syrian Government Use of Chemical Weapons on August 21
A large body of independent sources indicates that a chemical weapons attack took place in the Damascus suburbs on August 21. In addition to U.S. intelligence information, there are accounts from international and Syrian medical personnel; videos; witness accounts; thousands of social media reports from at least 12 different locations in the Damascus area; journalist accounts; and reports from highly credible nongovernmental organizations.
A preliminary U.S. government assessment determined that 1,429 people were killed in the chemical weapons attack, including at least 426 children, though this assessment will certainly evolve as we obtain more information.
We assess with high confidence that the Syrian government carried out the chemical weapons attack against opposition elements in the Damascus suburbs on August 21. We assess that the scenario in which the opposition executed the attack on August 21 is highly unlikely. The body of information used to make this assessment includes intelligence pertaining to the regime’s preparations for this attack and its means of delivery, multiple streams of intelligence about the attack itself and its effect, our post-attack observations, and the differences between the capabilities of the regime and the opposition. Our high confidence assessment is the strongest position that the U.S. Intelligence Community can take short of confirmation. We will continue to seek additional information to close gaps in our understanding of what took place.
Background:
The Syrian regime maintains a stockpile of numerous chemical agents, including mustard, sarin, and VX and has thousands of munitions that can be used to deliver chemical warfare agents.
Syrian President Bashar al-Asad is the ultimate decision maker for the chemical weapons program and members of the program are carefully vetted to ensure security and loyalty. The Syrian Scientific Studies and Research Center (SSRC) – which is subordinate to the Syrian Ministry of Defense – manages Syria’s chemical weapons program.
We assess with high confidence that the Syrian regime has used chemical weapons on a small scale against the opposition multiple times in the last year, including in the Damascus suburbs. This assessment is based on multiple streams of information including reporting of Syrian officials planning and executing chemical weapons attacks and laboratory analysis of physiological samples obtained from a number of individuals, which revealed exposure to sarin. We assess that the opposition has not used chemical weapons.
The Syrian regime has the types of munitions that we assess were used to carry out the attack on August 21, and has the ability to strike simultaneously in multiple locations. We have seen no indication that the opposition has carried out a large-scale, coordinated rocket and artillery attack like the one that occurred on August 21.
We assess that the Syrian regime has used chemical weapons over the last year primarily to gain the upper hand or break a stalemate in areas where it has struggled to seize and hold strategically valuable territory. In this regard, we continue to judge that the Syrian regime views chemical weapons as one of many tools in its arsenal, including air power and ballistic missiles, which they indiscriminately use against the opposition.
The Syrian regime has initiated an effort to rid the Damascus suburbs of opposition forces using the area as a base to stage attacks against regime targets in the capital. The regime has failed to clear dozens of Damascus neighborhoods of opposition elements, including neighborhoods targeted on August 21, despite employing nearly all of its conventional weapons systems. We assess that the regime’s frustration with its inability to secure large portions of Damascus may have contributed to its decision to use chemical weapons on August 21.
Preparation:
We have intelligence that leads us to assess that Syrian chemical weapons personnel – including personnel assessed to be associated with the SSRC – were preparing chemical munitions prior to the attack. In the three days prior to the attack, we collected streams of human, signals and geospatial intelligence that reveal regime activities that we assess were associated with preparations for a chemical weapons attack.
Syrian chemical weapons personnel were operating in the Damascus suburb of ‘Adra from Sunday, August 18 until early in the morning on Wednesday, August 21 near an area that the regime uses to mix chemical weapons, including sarin. On August 21, a Syrian regime element prepared for a chemical weapons attack in the Damascus area, including through the utilization of gas masks. Our intelligence sources in the Damascus area did not detect any indications in the days prior to the attack that opposition affiliates were planning to use chemical weapons.
The Attack:
Multiple streams of intelligence indicate that the regime executed a rocket and artillery attack against the Damascus suburbs in the early hours of August 21. Satellite detections corroborate that attacks from a regime-controlled area struck neighborhoods where the chemical attacks reportedly occurred – including Kafr Batna, Jawbar, ‘Ayn Tarma, Darayya, and Mu’addamiyah. This includes the detection of rocket launches from regime controlled territory early in the morning, approximately 90 minutes before the first report of a chemical attack appeared in social media. The lack of flight activity or missile launches also leads us to conclude that the regime used rockets in the attack.
Local social media reports of a chemical attack in the Damascus suburbs began at 2:30 a.m. local time on August 21. Within the next four hours there were thousands of social media reports on this attack from at least 12 different locations in the Damascus area. Multiple accounts described chemical-filled rockets impacting opposition-controlled areas.
Three hospitals in the Damascus area received approximately 3,600 patients displaying symptoms consistent with nerve agent exposure in less than three hours on the morning of August 21, according to a highly credible international humanitarian organization. The reported symptoms, and the epidemiological pattern of events – characterized by the massive influx of patients in a short period of time, the origin of the patients, and the contamination of medical and first aid workers – were consistent with mass exposure to a nerve agent. We also received reports from international and Syrian medical personnel on the ground.
We have identified one hundred videos attributed to the attack, many of which show large numbers of bodies exhibiting physical signs consistent with, but not unique to, nerve agent exposure. The reported symptoms of victims included unconsciousness, foaming from the nose and mouth, constricted pupils, rapid heartbeat, and difficulty breathing. Several of the videos show what appear to be numerous fatalities with no visible injuries, which is consistent with death from chemical weapons, and inconsistent with death from small-arms, high-explosive munitions or blister agents. At least 12 locations are portrayed in the publicly available videos, and a sampling of those videos confirmed that some were shot at the general times and locations described in the footage.
We assess the Syrian opposition does not have the capability to fabricate all of the videos, physical symptoms verified by medical personnel and NGOs, and other information associated with this chemical attack.
We have a body of information, including past Syrian practice, that leads us to conclude that regime officials were witting of and directed the attack on August 21. We intercepted communications involving a senior official intimately familiar with the offensive who confirmed that chemical weapons were used by the regime on August 21 and was concerned with the U.N. inspectors obtaining evidence. On the afternoon of August 21, we have intelligence that Syrian chemical weapons personnel were directed to cease operations. At the same time, the regime intensified the artillery barrage targeting many of the neighborhoods where chemical attacks occurred. In the 24 hour period after the attack, we detected indications of artillery and rocket fire at a rate approximately four times higher than the ten preceding days. We continued to see indications of sustained shelling in the neighborhoods up until the morning of August 26.
To conclude, there is a substantial body of information that implicates the Syrian government’s responsibility in the chemical weapons attack that took place on August 21.As indicated, there is additional intelligence that remains classified because of sources and methods concerns that is being provided to Congress and international partners.
Syria: Damascus Areas of Influence and Areas Reportedly Affected by 21 August Chemical Attack
I don't really see any proof in this proof
The United States Government assesses with high confidence that the Syrian government carried out a chemical weapons attack in the Damascus suburbs on August 21, 2013. We further assess that the regime used a nerve agent in the attack. These all-source assessments are based on human, signals, and geospatial intelligence as well as a significant body of open source reporting.Our classified assessments have been shared with the U.S. Congress and key international partners. To protect sources and methods, we cannot publicly release all available intelligence – but what follows is an unclassified summary of the U.S. Intelligence Community’s analysis of what took place.
Syrian Government Use of Chemical Weapons on August 21
A large body of independent sources indicates that a chemical weapons attack took place in the Damascus suburbs on August 21. In addition to U.S. intelligence information, there are accounts from international and Syrian medical personnel; videos; witness accounts; thousands of social media reports from at least 12 different locations in the Damascus area; journalist accounts; and reports from highly credible nongovernmental organizations.
A preliminary U.S. government assessment determined that 1,429 people were killed in the chemical weapons attack, including at least 426 children, though this assessment will certainly evolve as we obtain more information.
We assess with high confidence that the Syrian government carried out the chemical weapons attack against opposition elements in the Damascus suburbs on August 21. We assess that the scenario in which the opposition executed the attack on August 21 is highly unlikely. The body of information used to make this assessment includes intelligence pertaining to the regime’s preparations for this attack and its means of delivery, multiple streams of intelligence about the attack itself and its effect, our post-attack observations, and the differences between the capabilities of the regime and the opposition. Our high confidence assessment is the strongest position that the U.S. Intelligence Community can take short of confirmation. We will continue to seek additional information to close gaps in our understanding of what took place.
Background:
The Syrian regime maintains a stockpile of numerous chemical agents, including mustard, sarin, and VX and has thousands of munitions that can be used to deliver chemical warfare agents.
Syrian President Bashar al-Asad is the ultimate decision maker for the chemical weapons program and members of the program are carefully vetted to ensure security and loyalty. The Syrian Scientific Studies and Research Center (SSRC) – which is subordinate to the Syrian Ministry of Defense – manages Syria’s chemical weapons program.
We assess with high confidence that the Syrian regime has used chemical weapons on a small scale against the opposition multiple times in the last year, including in the Damascus suburbs. This assessment is based on multiple streams of information including reporting of Syrian officials planning and executing chemical weapons attacks and laboratory analysis of physiological samples obtained from a number of individuals, which revealed exposure to sarin. We assess that the opposition has not used chemical weapons.
The Syrian regime has the types of munitions that we assess were used to carry out the attack on August 21, and has the ability to strike simultaneously in multiple locations. We have seen no indication that the opposition has carried out a large-scale, coordinated rocket and artillery attack like the one that occurred on August 21.
We assess that the Syrian regime has used chemical weapons over the last year primarily to gain the upper hand or break a stalemate in areas where it has struggled to seize and hold strategically valuable territory. In this regard, we continue to judge that the Syrian regime views chemical weapons as one of many tools in its arsenal, including air power and ballistic missiles, which they indiscriminately use against the opposition.
The Syrian regime has initiated an effort to rid the Damascus suburbs of opposition forces using the area as a base to stage attacks against regime targets in the capital. The regime has failed to clear dozens of Damascus neighborhoods of opposition elements, including neighborhoods targeted on August 21, despite employing nearly all of its conventional weapons systems. We assess that the regime’s frustration with its inability to secure large portions of Damascus may have contributed to its decision to use chemical weapons on August 21.
Preparation:
We have intelligence that leads us to assess that Syrian chemical weapons personnel – including personnel assessed to be associated with the SSRC – were preparing chemical munitions prior to the attack. In the three days prior to the attack, we collected streams of human, signals and geospatial intelligence that reveal regime activities that we assess were associated with preparations for a chemical weapons attack.
Syrian chemical weapons personnel were operating in the Damascus suburb of ‘Adra from Sunday, August 18 until early in the morning on Wednesday, August 21 near an area that the regime uses to mix chemical weapons, including sarin. On August 21, a Syrian regime element prepared for a chemical weapons attack in the Damascus area, including through the utilization of gas masks. Our intelligence sources in the Damascus area did not detect any indications in the days prior to the attack that opposition affiliates were planning to use chemical weapons.
The Attack:
Multiple streams of intelligence indicate that the regime executed a rocket and artillery attack against the Damascus suburbs in the early hours of August 21. Satellite detections corroborate that attacks from a regime-controlled area struck neighborhoods where the chemical attacks reportedly occurred – including Kafr Batna, Jawbar, ‘Ayn Tarma, Darayya, and Mu’addamiyah. This includes the detection of rocket launches from regime controlled territory early in the morning, approximately 90 minutes before the first report of a chemical attack appeared in social media. The lack of flight activity or missile launches also leads us to conclude that the regime used rockets in the attack.
Local social media reports of a chemical attack in the Damascus suburbs began at 2:30 a.m. local time on August 21. Within the next four hours there were thousands of social media reports on this attack from at least 12 different locations in the Damascus area. Multiple accounts described chemical-filled rockets impacting opposition-controlled areas.
Three hospitals in the Damascus area received approximately 3,600 patients displaying symptoms consistent with nerve agent exposure in less than three hours on the morning of August 21, according to a highly credible international humanitarian organization. The reported symptoms, and the epidemiological pattern of events – characterized by the massive influx of patients in a short period of time, the origin of the patients, and the contamination of medical and first aid workers – were consistent with mass exposure to a nerve agent. We also received reports from international and Syrian medical personnel on the ground.
We have identified one hundred videos attributed to the attack, many of which show large numbers of bodies exhibiting physical signs consistent with, but not unique to, nerve agent exposure. The reported symptoms of victims included unconsciousness, foaming from the nose and mouth, constricted pupils, rapid heartbeat, and difficulty breathing. Several of the videos show what appear to be numerous fatalities with no visible injuries, which is consistent with death from chemical weapons, and inconsistent with death from small-arms, high-explosive munitions or blister agents. At least 12 locations are portrayed in the publicly available videos, and a sampling of those videos confirmed that some were shot at the general times and locations described in the footage.
We assess the Syrian opposition does not have the capability to fabricate all of the videos, physical symptoms verified by medical personnel and NGOs, and other information associated with this chemical attack.
We have a body of information, including past Syrian practice, that leads us to conclude that regime officials were witting of and directed the attack on August 21. We intercepted communications involving a senior official intimately familiar with the offensive who confirmed that chemical weapons were used by the regime on August 21 and was concerned with the U.N. inspectors obtaining evidence. On the afternoon of August 21, we have intelligence that Syrian chemical weapons personnel were directed to cease operations. At the same time, the regime intensified the artillery barrage targeting many of the neighborhoods where chemical attacks occurred. In the 24 hour period after the attack, we detected indications of artillery and rocket fire at a rate approximately four times higher than the ten preceding days. We continued to see indications of sustained shelling in the neighborhoods up until the morning of August 26.
To conclude, there is a substantial body of information that implicates the Syrian government’s responsibility in the chemical weapons attack that took place on August 21.As indicated, there is additional intelligence that remains classified because of sources and methods concerns that is being provided to Congress and international partners.
Syria: Damascus Areas of Influence and Areas Reportedly Affected by 21 August Chemical Attack
I don't really see any proof in this proof
Gabbar Singh
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no.
soso_killer
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Russia and China are not afraid of the US. However they do know that the US are right on this one and definately hold the "moral" high ground. They could of course veto America's strike on Syria but the US could veto their resolution in return.
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I've never been a fan of US foreign policy however when innocent children and women are involved i would definately sleep with the enemy.
Even though Kerry has stated the attacks would be limited and not meant to overthrow the regime, i would not blame them if it escalates to that level.
426 children were killed in the chemical attacks in a total of 1429 deaths
Even though Kerry has stated the attacks would be limited and not meant to overthrow the regime, i would not blame them if it escalates to that level.
426 children were killed in the chemical attacks in a total of 1429 deaths
Once you realise the BBC is nothing more than a state propagandist it all makes sense.
Great interview with Ken O'Keefe, an ex US marine & war veteran, who destroys the arguments of an American Zionist who was so ashamed by his own lies that he hangs his head in shame by the end.
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/08/29/321077/syria-victim-of-greater-israel-project/
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/08/29/321077/syria-victim-of-greater-israel-project/
DRS
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Why attack a country and weaken its ground forces when you don't want to topple regime?
One thing is imperative to mention, and that is US strikes wouldn't bring an end to the massacre and it can possible kill more innocent people in the process of inflicting damage on regime which they are doing to punish.
James
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Surely the three modern great powers would never actually go to war with one another.
Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) theory.
Many places never really recovered after WW2, which up until its final month was a conventional war. Imagine a war fought with WMDs.
Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) theory.
Many places never really recovered after WW2, which up until its final month was a conventional war. Imagine a war fought with WMDs.
Reverselap
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Let us assume two scenarios, the only viable ones at the moment
- It was Syria
- It was The Rebels
Let's consider the first one. Would not attacking Syria mean more lives lost, the same lives you're "trying to protect"?
Now let's assume it's the rebels. Attacking the installations of the only force that has the power to oppose them would just increase their capability of carrying out said strikes.
So whichever it is, an attack would not help
Bashira_taeli
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A Venezuelan congressman fighting in Syria
OZGOD
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Exactly. It's not worth it to these big powers to get into shooting wars with each other, given how hyperconnected everyone's economy is these days. China, Russia and the US won't risk their trade balances with each other over something this is more about credibility than anything. The Seppos will fire off some Tomahawks into Syria to maintain their credibility, the Russians and Chinese will make noises in the media and will continue to block any US resolution for their own credibility, and that will be that as far as they are all concerned. Gone are the days where WWIII would have started over something happening in a client state. That's what proxy wars and funding insurgents is for.
I'm posting this from Russia btw - I arrived in Moscow tonight and am now in St Petersburg! Maybe I will see how the Russians on the street think about this - given their own problems I doubt many of them have even heard about this.
Cpt. Rishwat
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No, but they could wreck their opponent's economies by creating unstable environments around their mineral resource dependencies. Of course that might seem too much like a conspiracy theory but I'm just putting it out there.
soso_killer
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1st and foremost it has been confirmed that it was the regime who carried out the attacks.
We are talking about chemical weapons here not something an ordinary citizen can make. Also the equipment to launch was from a remote area, again rebels dont posses that type of technology. No civilians are in harms way. Unless the regime act as coward and move weaponry near civilians and use them as collateral.
The were call interceptions between government officials and were heard discussing the chemical attacks.
The regime also denied and delayed access for the UN inspection in order to conceal evidence. So its obvious who is responsible for the attacks
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in_cutter
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soso_killer
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The US are between a rock and a hard place.
A limited strike my end up crippling the regime and arming the rebels and living terrorist with dangerous weapon.
Remember the rebel forces are different organisations with different agendas but they are working together to over throw the regime. Some of them have been earmarked as threats to the United States.
So what do the US do? Invade a sovereign state to protect its national interest?
A limited strike my end up crippling the regime and arming the rebels and living terrorist with dangerous weapon.
Remember the rebel forces are different organisations with different agendas but they are working together to over throw the regime. Some of them have been earmarked as threats to the United States.
So what do the US do? Invade a sovereign state to protect its national interest?
soso_killer
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well the UN are not going to come out and say the regime did it are they?
That was never their mandate. They have confirmed that Chemicals were used.
And it was not the rebels who denied them access to the area that was affected. It is really obvious who carried the attacks, unless we want to bury our heads in the sand
I read this the other day. Its a great analysis by a fantastic writer. Have you read The Great War for Civilisation?
Not True,...the UN inspectors have had access pretty much immediately. Many NGO's are working there but its very hard to ascertain if it was the Regime unless the inspectors get access to all the sites. Thats the Key.
Israel in Gaza 2008, Drops White phosporous on civilan population in the full glare of the worlds media. Women and Children are shown to be burning alive..1500 or so dead (similar number to Syria)
Still waiting on that US or British war against Israel ..who obviously don't have chemical or other WMD's!
Double Standards, Moral hypocrites doesnt even begin to cover it...
how many have died in Waziristan in the drone attacks?
Still waiting on that US or British war against Israel ..who obviously don't have chemical or other WMD's!
Double Standards, Moral hypocrites doesnt even begin to cover it...
how many have died in Waziristan in the drone attacks?
Yes but has the same effect and it is debatable whether it is a chemical weapon or not.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ite-phosphorus-as-chemical-weapon-516523.html
The debate in the Uk has been more about the moral case for war based on mass indiscriminate killings of civilians by the regime. Its actually not a million miles from what happens in Palestine ever few years. But i was astounded by Cameron mock horror antics, and moral zeal. He's really taken a cue from the Blair and the Labour Spin department.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ite-phosphorus-as-chemical-weapon-516523.html
The debate in the Uk has been more about the moral case for war based on mass indiscriminate killings of civilians by the regime. Its actually not a million miles from what happens in Palestine ever few years. But i was astounded by Cameron mock horror antics, and moral zeal. He's really taken a cue from the Blair and the Labour Spin department.
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Not US fault it is the duty of pakistan's government to stop them.Yes they shouldn't be using drones but why do you expect everybody to be nice.
"nice"????
I expect international law to apply across the board not selectively to suit powerful states and their interests.
I Believe in the Teesra
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Pretty tricky situation.
U.S. is caught between a rock and a hard place. 50% of the nation is in favor of going in to Syria while the other 50% says no. Congress is upset that Obama hasn't consulted them regarding this declaration of war but I don't think he really cares at this point.
I think at this point, if the U.S. can show proper proof that these deaths were indeed caused by weapons linked to Assad, then you have to go in. The shield of Humanitarianism is enough justification at that point. I just hope there won't be any domino effects ala Iraq/Iran rebels attacking Embassies.
U.S. is caught between a rock and a hard place. 50% of the nation is in favor of going in to Syria while the other 50% says no. Congress is upset that Obama hasn't consulted them regarding this declaration of war but I don't think he really cares at this point.
I think at this point, if the U.S. can show proper proof that these deaths were indeed caused by weapons linked to Assad, then you have to go in. The shield of Humanitarianism is enough justification at that point. I just hope there won't be any domino effects ala Iraq/Iran rebels attacking Embassies.
oyei
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Oh so you also heard the intercepted conversation among syrian generals, what radio station catched that conversation? Israel FM radio?
Asad invited UN then 2 days before their arrival he decided to bomb rebels with chemical weapon 10 miles away from the inspection site. Now repeat that last paragraph 10 times and see if it makes sense.
At least Bush administration had proper presentation at UN with their powerpoint, little cartoon trucks, and back then millions of people in Britain knew it was made up evidence. And now radio intercepted evidence is enough to give government all the right to bomb a soviergn nation.
How long are people going to keep their tinfoil hats on? It is 2013, get Google Glass.
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Fairy
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US has nothing to do in Syria and should keep out of this violence although they are surely involved in exaggerating the situation in Syria.
Assad needs to step aside though. He is a criminal, violent, tyrant.
Assad needs to step aside though. He is a criminal, violent, tyrant.
I Believe in the Teesra
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The problem is, Will Power/Unity/Faith/Hard-work on the part of the people will be no match for chemical warfare. If Doctors without Borders (innocent volunteers) were killed, imagine the bloodshed that's in store. How are these people supposed to combat that?
Fairy
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I know but if Iran, Russia, Israel stop supporting Bashar then there is no way he can do all this.
He was losing the 'civil war' badly until he got support from Shias in Iran and Hezbollahs Hassan Nasrullah who sent fighters in Syria.
America will only ruin things like it did in Iraq.
He was losing the 'civil war' badly until he got support from Shias in Iran and Hezbollahs Hassan Nasrullah who sent fighters in Syria.
America will only ruin things like it did in Iraq.
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Fairy
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This probably is going to lead to the armageddon and the Muslim world will suffer as predicted in the Hadith.
The Dark Corner
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Well he wouldnt have been losing if the rebels did not get support from Turkey, Saudis and Qatar
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so many innocent lives are being lost in this dirty partnership of KSA+USA..I really feel for Syrians..first they armed and supported rebels to topple the regime when they failed now they are inviting USA..KSA leaders should be ashamed of themselves..
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Poison
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Are you serious? The USA is not some type of global police force. If you think there is no ulterior motive and they are just planning to go in and 'help' Syria recover you know nothing about global politics. Nobody does anything without potential for gain.
Robert
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Yeah, the US didn't 'go in' to stop the Rwandan Genocide because they had no money to make there. Whereas the French did, so they eventually intervened.
Poison
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Rob the US's role during the Rwandan Genocide was borderline accomplice to the Hutus ... despicable really.
Poison
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That's another topic altogether though ... why do the US and everyone supporting an intervention here seem to believe the US has the right to intervene and try to stop all problems across the world? The US has no legal jurisdiction to take ANY international offensive action; if they go into Syria it's just another blot against the useless United Nations.
Robert
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Please expand on this.
Exactly.
Anybody with a little of logical and critical thinking would know that Assad would not have used CW.Also,rebels have been supplied with highly sophisticated weapons such as ATGM,MANPADs,and also CWs.
Fairy
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Rebels are not the whole Syria. Assad is attacking innocent civilians who have nothing to do with Rebels? How in the world are you justifying a chemical attack on civilians?
People are mentioning that Assad wouldn't use chemical weapons when he knew UN inspectors were coming in - actually its plausible because sarin gas dissipates within 30 minutes so it would be difficult for inspectors to find any evidence of chemical weapon use.
Bashira_taeli
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umm...when did this happen?
soso_killer
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that is not true. The was a major delay in the area of the chemical attack were atleast 1000+ civilians died. The regime did so in order to wipe out the evidence.
soso_killer
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what are you talking about? Take of your rose tinted glasses and read your post. Are you actually denying that the UN was denied access by the regime to the site affected by the attacks?
Even the papers are aware of that. The main area the UN wanted to inspect was delayed. Why would they do that if they had nothing to hide?
soso_killer
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no one would ever arm rebels with chemical weapons, dont kid yourself there. Were rebels in Libya armed with chemicals?
Remember the rebels in Syria are from different organisations, different agendas Al-nusra, Al-Al Qaeda and other islamic militants. Who are all against the "west" including the US.
So it would not make sense to arm them with that type of weaponry.
I dont buy that the rebels are responsible for the attacks let alone possess that type of technology
Well lets just wait for the UN report on that one shall we. About 1500 have died. Now compare that to Fallujah and read some of Robert Fisks reports there, it will make your eyes water!
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...allujah--the-hospital-of-horrors-7679168.html
Now read this article about humanitarian Intervention. It would be the only basis for an invasion and the case is actually pretty weak. The main issue is, whether you feel the world is ready for long protacted modern war with WMD utilised freely? Whether the regime used them to gas their own people is besides the point. What happens within a states domestic sphere is pretty much a grey area unless we are talking genocide which this isnt. Look at the analysis on discussing Genocide In Rwanda.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/aug/28/syria-intervention-force-lawful
you know there is nothing stopping a UN peacekeeping force or a diplomatic mission. this conflict is still in its infancy pretty much.
Stop lying to yourself.Chemicals for making CWs were found in hideouts used by the rebels.Also,Saudi Arabia provided CWs to the rebels according to reports.
KB-24
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No they are not. There's a secular rebel group on the ground fighting to preserve the interests of the Kuffar. They are nothing like the Mujahideen fighting to establish Khilafah.
Check this interview: http://www.revolutionobserver.com/2013/07/leaders-of-syrian-revolution.html
soso_killer
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wow, atleast 1429 were killed. And if no intervention is taken it will be more. Must we have 50 000 dead before we open our eyes?
I mean whats 1000 people gassed to death right?
DRS
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America is prepared for the limited Air strikes therefore for them evidence or no evidence doesn't matter. Obama has explicitly stated they won't wait until the UN's report is out concerning the attack.
For them, circumstantial evidence based on the photos and a hallucinated interception of voice conversation amongst the regime commanders discussing the chemical attack which unfortunately they won't be able to disclose as it would be against their national security interest, is enough. How can you be confident about regime making efforts to wipe out the evidence?
soso_killer
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soso_killer
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Kerry said they would show their findings to the congress (equivalent of a parliament) and would have a vote. So which means the opposition will have a say on the issue. Remember Obama is not obliged to do that as he is the commander in chief of that country (per that countries constitution).
The fact that he is willing to include his people in the decision making clearly indicates that there are no hidden agendas. So its not as if he is presenting the evidence to his party members who have similar political views.
This will be codifential of course, only America's representitives will see the full evidence. I have no qualms about that
KB-24
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<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yIkEo1aKYIk?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Translated summary of the video:
In summary, abu Bilaal al-Hemsi is saying: "Obama's Redline of the use of chemicals by Bashar is in reality referring to the Black Banners of Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) carried by the Mujaahideen in Syria. The Black Banners of the Mujaahideenhave drawn in on Bashar from all around after having managed to block all the roads that delivered weapons to the regime. Now, the tyrannical regime of Bashar is really severed from all around, as the roads which weapons and ammunitions came through from Russia, Iran, and the US (which aids the regime through the Saudis and others as well) are completely blocked by the Mujaahideen.
Ever since Ramadhaan, the Mujaahideen in Syria have been winning every battle against Bashar and his thugs; and the regime is on the brink of falling. Hence, the intervention of the US along with the Western powers and their allies have no interest in attacking the Syrian regime; the intervention is rather aiming at attacking the Mujaahideen. The latest chemical attack carried out by Bashar was orchestrated to be -- as it is --used as a` pretext to intervene in Syria to save the Syrian regime of Bashar from falling, and to fight against the Mujaahideen and prevent them from mounting to Authority with Islaam and restore the Islamic Khilaafah State, which will pose a huge threat to Israel and the Golan Heights.
Translated summary of the video:
In summary, abu Bilaal al-Hemsi is saying: "Obama's Redline of the use of chemicals by Bashar is in reality referring to the Black Banners of Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) carried by the Mujaahideen in Syria. The Black Banners of the Mujaahideenhave drawn in on Bashar from all around after having managed to block all the roads that delivered weapons to the regime. Now, the tyrannical regime of Bashar is really severed from all around, as the roads which weapons and ammunitions came through from Russia, Iran, and the US (which aids the regime through the Saudis and others as well) are completely blocked by the Mujaahideen.
Ever since Ramadhaan, the Mujaahideen in Syria have been winning every battle against Bashar and his thugs; and the regime is on the brink of falling. Hence, the intervention of the US along with the Western powers and their allies have no interest in attacking the Syrian regime; the intervention is rather aiming at attacking the Mujaahideen. The latest chemical attack carried out by Bashar was orchestrated to be -- as it is --used as a` pretext to intervene in Syria to save the Syrian regime of Bashar from falling, and to fight against the Mujaahideen and prevent them from mounting to Authority with Islaam and restore the Islamic Khilaafah State, which will pose a huge threat to Israel and the Golan Heights.
KingKhanWC
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I'm shocked there are people like yourself who still believe US is the moral voice and the worlds moral policeman when it's obvious this nations governments have been the worlds biggest terrorist. Please explain in detail why you think the US is somehow the good guy in all of this and needs to save the world like Batman?
KingKhanWC
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Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_...ing-the-weapons-were-provided-by-Saudis-1203/
Amazing but not surprising this has not made the mainstream media.
James
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I am surprised. Even after Iraq we still have this many tin hat soldiers.
KingKhanWC
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Good to see Russia standing up to Nato state terrorism.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23911833
http://www.arabnews.com/news/462904
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23911833
http://www.arabnews.com/news/462904
This was in May,the UN said rebels used CWs.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...es-Syrian-rebels-of-chemical-weapons-use.html
This is the present one,the rebels claim responsibility for the attack.
http://www.infowars.com/rebels-admit-responsibility-for-chemical-weapons-attack/
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I was about to upload this.Also,they said they received the CWs from KSA.
KingKhanWC
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No disrespect brother but you are very misguided in regards to this situation. All so called rebel groups have pledged alliance to Jabat Al Nusra who in turn have pledged alliance to Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda are not mujahideen but a collection of mercenaries paid to fight on behalf of the CIA, Mossad and the Saudi intelligence services.
No true mujahideen would be fighting alongside the Zionist alliance and doing the dirty work for them. Anyone fighting the Syrian regime in coalition with the Nato powers is nothing but a terrorist. The Quran makes it very clear what the Almighty thinks of those who are in alliance with the Zionists.
Quran 5:51
O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
KB-24
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Check the interview conducted of leaders of 6 groups I posted brother, plus the summary of the video from a Mujahid above. I do acknowledge that there's is a secular faction with the various rebel groups who are fighting on behalf of US & allies to preserve their interests. They have nothing to do with mujahideen fighting to liberate Syria. Not all rebel groups are being armed by foreign powers.
yes. Absolutely spot on. There are certain objective facts that have to be ascertained before something is escalated from mass killings to War Crimes to Genocide. the latter being the trigger for humanitarian intervention which is a loose and elastic term at best and fraught with legal loopholes. Once again please track back to Rawanda and the Balkans as the origin for these developments in international norms.
Acting on mass killings and War Crimes is even more problematic (from a legal or moral point of view)
Even 1 person being killed is morally and legally reprehensible from a personal view point lets make that clear.
But we are taking the view of When states go to war...in this regard unfortunately numbers do matter.
Also humanitarian intervention masks many hidden agendas that only become clear with time. By then its often too late to reverse the tide, so better to have the critical debates before hand.
James
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Obama statement due in 5 minutes....
Bashira_taeli
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Russia's Vladimir Putin challenges US on Syria claims
31 August 2013 Last updated at 11:21 GMT Help
Russian President Vladimir Putin has challenged the US to present to the UN evidence that Syria was responsible for chemical weapons attacks.
Mr Putin said it would be "utter rubbish" for Syria's government to provoke opponents with such attacks when it was in a position of strength.
US President Barack Obama has said he is considering military action against Syria based on intelligence reports.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23911461
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/QmPoMT1ZV18" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
31 August 2013 Last updated at 11:21 GMT Help
Russian President Vladimir Putin has challenged the US to present to the UN evidence that Syria was responsible for chemical weapons attacks.
Mr Putin said it would be "utter rubbish" for Syria's government to provoke opponents with such attacks when it was in a position of strength.
US President Barack Obama has said he is considering military action against Syria based on intelligence reports.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23911461
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/QmPoMT1ZV18" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Bashira_taeli
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James
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on BBC News channel as well.
MRSN
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Today I realized Obama is a very good liar..
James
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Obama reiterates that the UK is his strongest ally but has a dig at the same time 
MRSN
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Someone plz ask him for funding weapons to those rebels which was eually responsible for taking 100,000 innocent peoples lives..
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Bashira_taeli
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jeez...this guy itching to launch those missiles
Bashira_taeli
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'We are the USA, we cannot and must not turn blind eye to what happened in Damascus" - Obama
