The Middle East Crisis

[chacha kashmiri]

The same old prejudiced, sectarian drivel from you.

Christians in Lebanon have very cordial relations with Hezbollah. The largest christian political party of Lebanon, the FPM is an ally of Hizbollah.

The former Christian president of Lebanon, Emile Lahoud was the biggest supporter of Hizbollah.




Give this a read as well.

AND THIS


a much more recent read



Hezbollah’s involvement in oppressing the Syrian people antagonized dozens of states and hundreds of Arabs, Muslims and Christians, as well as international public opinion,” he said.

“Lebanon’s reputation was distorted as a result, serving a blow to the basis of the Lebanese state,” he added.

“Such interference along with Hezbollah’s exclusivity in bearing arms and its disregard for the Constitution and will of the Lebanese forced the collapse of the National Pact,” Geagea said.

Describing Hezbollah as an alternative to Assad’s hegemony in Lebanon, Geagea vowed to resist this reality with “more ferocity than we did when we confronted” the Syrian regime.

Geagea said Hezbollah was responsible for a rocket attack that struck the vicinity of Baabda Palace in August. Hezbollah has denied involvement.

On two occasions, rockets landed near Baabda Palace and the Defense Ministry’s headquarters in Yarzeh.

Geagea outlined the government his group would support, saying its ministerial statement should no longer include the formula “the Army, the people and the resistance.”

“We will no longer agree to a government, be it political, technocrat, unifying, neutral or partisan, if the Baabda Declaration is not the foundation of the ministerial statement,” Geagea said.

He demanded a government “of new blood,” one that would be able to revitalize the economy by attracting capital and tourism and not one distracted by regional conflicts.

While Geagea and his allies in the March 14 coalition have called for a Cabinet of nonpartisan ministers under Prime Minister-designate Tammam Salam, Hezbollah and the March 8 alliance have called for a national unity Cabinet.

Hezbollah has also maintained that the tripartite formula of “the Army, the people, and the resistance” is the only means to protect Lebanon from Israeli aggression.

Geagea, however, said Hezbollah eradicated the significance of that formula when it intervened in Syria.

“As for the formula of the ‘Army, people and resistance,’ it was long gone in Qusair,” Geagea said, referring to the Syrian border town where Hezbollah fighters first fought rebels alongside regime forces.

“What is needed today is the tripartite formula of ‘the people, the state and the institutions,’” he added.

The Christian leader laid out what he said should be the characteristics of a future president in order to revive the post. “We want a strong president that can re-establish the prestige of the presidency: ... a president that comes up with solutions rather than one who simply manages the crisis,” he said.

“A president who negotiates rather than bargains ... a president that can purify the public sector and reform what was corrupted by decades of tutelage,” the LF leader said.

Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Le...ollah-opened-gates-of-hell.ashx#ixzz2eDOGXKlz
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Again,totally irrelevant response from you.I was talking about Bashar Al Assad not his father.This video is about his father.

That's his father though. I don't see why Bashar Assad needs to pay for crimes of his father. Though obviously he's done a lot of wrong as well and needs to step down, but given the competition - FSA in this case - he's easily the better option.

Hafez assad burnt down churches, mosques and synagogues to maintain alawaite supremacy over the country

and his son, also an assad and alawite burns down mosques and churches to maintain alawite supremacy

Sons have nothing to do with their fathers when they don't remain their heir to the throne
Next you'l be declaring george bush jnr completely independent of george bush snr and his policies


As for the fsa being worse than hezbollah and assad's militia



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[saeedhk]

^Who would listen to this tool.Biggest war-monger.I said you to provide any proof that Assad deliberately killed Sunni muslims before the civil war.These same people who are calling for strikes are killing the same so called rebels in Mali,Somalia and Pakistan.When it suits their agenda ,they are rebels or freedom fighters when not,they are hardened Al Qaeda militants.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

^Who would listen to this tool.Biggest war-monger.I said you to provide any proof that Assad deliberately killed Sunni muslims before the civil war.These same people who are calling for strikes are killing the same so called rebels in Mali,Somalia and Pakistan.When it suits their agenda ,they are rebels or freedom fighters when not,they are hardened Al Qaeda militants.

If you look read on the present syrian conflict, a lot of the syrian fighters were defectors from the army and local fighters
and then when foriegn backing stopped and hezbollah got involved, there was influx of fighters from abroad
The syrian mb have backed one or two of the rebel groups without having their own armed wing themselves


As for bashar he graduated from an academy in homs and was the chief of bureau for his father, what more do you want
Syria has the worse human rights record amomgst arab states, who do you think they torture and kill in prisons but political sunni opponents

 

[saeedhk]

^I doubt foreign backing ever stopped.
You should not talk about human rights,what about other Arab states eg Bahrain and recently killing of civilians by Egytian army whom Saudi Arabia supports.
Still have not provided proof to show sunnis were deliberately targetted by Assad before the civil war.

 

[venomousx]

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Have to say, Putin and Russia have done a stellar job in defending their ally in all of this. They've saved Bashar's ass, temporarily at least.

 

[Markhor]

A pro-Syria interventionist, Republican Mike Rogers, chair of House Intelligence Committee, admits if vote held today in House Obama would lose.

Looks like Obama may win the Senate but lose the House.

 

[saeedhk]

Arab countries had offered to pay for the strike-Kerry(A few days ago)

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Re: Syrian Civil War

Arab countries had offered to pay for the strike-Kerry(A few days ago)

Can't believe we have got to this. ...

 

[USaqaf]

Now it's become an ego issue with that spineless President who's on Saudi Arabia's payroll.

Pray tell me WHY oh WHY hasnt he mentioned in the same sentence that the Egyptian army butchered , basically machine gunned 200 innocent protesters!

 

[Asif khan]

Re: Syrian Civil War

Can't believe we have got to this. ...

Weren't it the same Arab douchebags that were literally begging Israel to attack Iran a few years ago. These obese scumbags are the biggest war mongers on earth.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Saeed]

What should other countries do to stop saudi like regimes from not fighting?

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Re: Syrian Civil War

Weren't it the same Arab douchebags that were literally begging Israel to attack Iran a few years ago. These obese scumbags are the biggest war mongers on earth.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

It wouldn't surprise me.

Saudi hates Iran more than Israel.

 

[saeedhk]

Can't believe we have got to this. ...

What else can we expect from these puppets.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Re: Syrian Civil War

What annoys me most is when youngsters come on pp having bought the nonsense being peddled by those politicians....

They come on here thinking they need to defend their "faith and brethren".

 

[Gabbar Singh]

It wouldn't surprise me.

Saudi hates Iran more than Israel.

The Saudis and Israelis have more in common together than they'd like to admit.

As Obama Blinks On Syria, Israel, Saudis Make Common Cause
Saudi Arabia, like Israel heavily dependent on the United States for arms supplies, is engaged in a historic confrontation with Iran for regional influence - a contest shaped by their leading roles in the rival Sunni and Shi'ite branches of Islam.

http://gulfbusiness.com/2013/09/as-...israel-saudis-make-common-cause/#.UiytDn_AEhk

 

[Asif khan]

Re: Syrian Civil War

What annoys me most is when youngsters come on pp having bought the nonsense being peddled by those politicians....

They come on here thinking they need to defend their "faith and brethren".

I know, quite pathetic really.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[speed]

Usa has to attack or Isreal will tell suadi to drop the US dollar.

 

[lilFlip]

Who Is Really Behind the Syrian War?

Given that the pretext for attacking Syria is falling apart before the public's eyes, why is the US preparing to wage war on that country? Who benefits from the ongoing destabilization of Assad's government? What will the Middle East look like if the Sunnis take over Syria? What is Israel's role in this? What do Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia have to gain from a war in Syria? And what does Bandar Bush have to do with all of this? Join us today on The Corbett Report as we discuss these and other pressing issues as the world stands on the brink of yet another US-led Middle Eastern military adventure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCdaExnIpGs

 

[chacha kashmiri]

I've changed my mind massively on this

Syrians should deal with their differences internally, they've battered assad for the last two years without any interference

 

[Yossarian]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/sep/08/syria-barack-obama

 

[Yossarian]

 

[LongHorn]

The Saudis and Israelis have more in common together than they'd like to admit.




http://gulfbusiness.com/2013/09/as-...israel-saudis-make-common-cause/#.UiytDn_AEhk

Over the last 25 years, Saudis and Israel have been in bed together; every major conflict has seen them rush to the same side.

Unfortunately the average Pakistani and some Indian Muslims are gullible, and unlike the average Turk or Indonesian or even Arab (Algerian, Syrian, Iraqi) will gladly roll in mud for the Saudis.

Saudi Arabia is not a guardian of Islam, they work for their own interests which often is 180 degrees away from what benefits the Muslim World, and it is their prerogative to do so.

Gullible desis however should not see them as their rulers.

What compounds the problem is the sectarian strife in pakistan, so if you criticise Saudis, many people will call you Shia

 

[Markhor]

Russia says it will urge Syria to put chemical weapons under international control if that will avert military strikes.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Assad interviewed on CBS yesterday.



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[KingKhanWC]

Good interview by Assad. US is a known liar & fabricator to justify it's state terrorism, only fools would take their word as honesty.

 

[PennOne]

Good interview by Assad. US is a known liar & fabricator to justify it's state terrorism, only fools would take their word as honesty.

only one side has used chemical weapons against its own civilians specifically targeting civilians and not just collateral damage. Can you tell which side?

 

[KingKhanWC]

only one side has used chemical weapons against its own civilians specifically targeting civilians and not just collateral damage. Can you tell which side?

No tell me.

What I do know is the US is the biggest user of nuclear, chemcial and other immoral weapons in the history of the planet, so it's laughable they are now once again trying to fool people into thinking they are the saviours of people.

 

[PennOne]

Syrian Civil War

No tell me.

What I do know is the US is the biggest user of nuclear, chemcial and other immoral weapons in the history of the planet, so it's laughable they are now once again trying to fool people into thinking they are the saviours of people.

US used nuclear weapons after being attacked unprovoked against a nation allied with Nazi Germany. US has never gassed its own people or used chemical weapons against civilians.

 

[KingKhanWC]

US used nuclear weapons after being attacked unprovoked against a nation allied with Nazi Germany. US has never gassed its own people or used chemical weapons against civilians.

The use of Agent Orange in Viteman and white phosphorus in Fallujah(Iraq) are myths in your opinion?

 

[PennOne]

Agent Orange was primarily used against the Jungle environment its purpose was to destroy the trees and exfoliage where the vietnamese militants were hiding but had an adverse affect on civilians too so much so that the US military personel themselves sued the manufactures of Agent Orange because they did not realise that it would have an affect on humans and animals. They won the suit and 180 million settlement. Agent Orange was NEVER intended to be used Humans which was the reason for the lawsuit and why the military personel won. White Phosphorus was used against militants and was not intended against Iraqi civilians. its use is the same as using a fire bomb where the effect is excessive heat from the smoke bombs. White Phosphorus is an incendiary device NOT a chemical weapon

 

[Markhor]

KKWC thoughts on the British Parliament rejecting intervention ? People have been critical of Britain being the US's lapdogs but that was a good move, no ?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Agent Orange was primarily used against the Jungle environment its purpose was to destroy the trees and exfoliage where the vietnamese militants were hiding but had an adverse affect on civilians too so much so that the US military personel themselves sued the manufactures of Agent Orange because they did not realise that it would have an affect on humans and animals. They won the suit and 180 million settlement. Agent Orange was NEVER intended to be used Humans which was the reason for the lawsuit and why the military personel won. White Phosphorus was used against militants and was not intended against Iraqi civilians. its use is the same as using a fire bomb where the effect is excessive heat from the smoke bombs. White Phosphorus is an incendiary device NOT a chemical weapon

These weapons were dropped on civilian populations. The American military knew the damage agent orange was capable of which is why millions were affecged and also knew the damage white phosphorus can do including what we see today as birth defects on Iraqi children. Fallujah residents were fighting against occupation, an occupation based on lies or do you also believe Saddam could attack the UK within 45 mins with WMD's? The Iraqi people did not attack America and had the right to defend themselves against terrorist invaders.

You claim white phosphorus is not a chehmical weapon but you are disagreeing with your own hero's here.

US intelligence classified white phosphorus as 'chemical weapon'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ite-phosphorus-as-chemical-weapon-516523.html

Here is the after math of agent orange and white phosphorus. If these were your children I think you would have another view.

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[KingKhanWC]

KKWC thoughts on the British Parliament rejecting intervention ? People have been critical of Britain being the US's lapdogs but that was a good move, no ?

Yes, it's always a good thing when parliament actually backs the voice of the people in any matter especially war.

On the morning of the vote I called my MP(conservative) and spoke to her sectary who informed me the MP is against any military action. Apparently the MP had received 70 contacts by letter, email or phone the same day and only 2 residents were in favour of military action. The UK public were against the Iraq war but let it happen and I think now they will not allow another pre-emptive strike on a nation when there is no threat to them or their country.

Having said this I think in the future Britain will get involved in an attack on Syria or Iran, all it will take is a hit on it's ally America or Israel, then parliament will decide otherwise.

 

[Yossarian]

US used nuclear weapons after being attacked unprovoked against a nation allied with Nazi Germany. US has never gassed its own people or used chemical weapons against civilians.

Do you know of the iconic "Napalm Girl" Pulitzer prize winning photo, showing a naked Vietnamese girl running away after her clothes were burned off by a napalm bomb?

I will not post it on here, but here is a link.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...rl-pulitzer-image-marks-its-40th-anniversary/

 

[Markhor]

Wow what a diplomatic coup this would be ! Obama says he'll stop any plan for military strikes if Syria, as Russia have proposed, will hand over the chemical weapons to the UN. Syria says they welcome the proposal.

What a blinder played by the Russians.

 

[saeedhk]

^Read that earlier.The GCC countries must be really angry.

 

[Asif khan]

Re: Syrian Civil War

^^^Even if he did, they'll find some other pretext.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[OZGOD]

Wow what a diplomatic coup this would be ! Obama says he'll stop any plan for military strikes if Syria, as Russia have proposed, will hand over the chemical weapons to the UN. Syria says they welcome the proposal.

What a blinder played by the Russians.

Don't think Obama is all that unhappy with it to be honest. It was the out he was looking for, provided by yet another foot in mouth episode from John Kerry.

Wonder how it would be implemented in practice, in the context of what is going on over there at the moment. Or is it just a stalling tactic?

 

[LongHorn]

The irony of seeing Saudis calling the US as cowards and unreliable friends is not lost on any neutral.

 

[carbon11]

[UTUBE]ay0mCjDBm5U[/UTUBE]

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Re: Syrian Civil War

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/10/silent-military-coup-took-over-washington

Interesting article. Thought id share.

 

[USaqaf]

Obama's so called charisma was totally found wanting in last night's address.
So much so that I was actually laughing at his attempt at seriousness.
One word buzzed around my head throughout , and that was "hypocrite".

 

[Markhor]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24045680

A fair UN report has been published, criticising both sides for war crimes.

The latest report on Syria for the United Nations Human Rights Council says all sides are committing war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Government forces massacred civilians, shelled hospitals and used cluster bombs extensively between May and July, a commission of inquiry found.

Rebel fighters were increasingly guilty of summary executions, the report says.

The perpetrators of the crimes did not fear accountability and referral to justice was imperative, it adds.

The report comes a day before US Secretary of State John Kerry is due to meet Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in Geneva to discuss a response to the use of chemical weapons on the outskirts of Damascus last month.

Hundreds of people were killed in an attack which the US, UK and France insist could only have been carried out by Syria's government. Syria strongly denies it was to blame.

The Independent Commission of Inquiry on Syria was set up by the UN Human Rights Council in 2011 to monitor a conflict that has left more than 100,000 people dead.

Its investigators, who have been denied entry to Syria, based their latest report covering 15 May to 15 July on 258 interviews with eyewitnesses, video recordings and satellite imagery.

They found that Syria was a "battlefield", with millions of people displaced, cities and towns suffering "relentless shelling and sieges", and massacres being "perpetrated with impunity".

"Government forces have committed gross violations of human rights and the war crimes of torture, hostage-taking, murder, execution without due process, rape, attacking protected objects and pillage," the report says.

Hospitals have also been bombed, crops burnt, and water denied to desperate communities.

"Anti-government armed groups have committed war crimes, including murder, execution without due process, torture, hostage-taking and attacking protected objects. They have besieged and indiscriminately shelled civilian neighbourhoods," the report adds.

In one incident in June, a 15-year-old boy was executed by jihadist rebels, who accused him of blasphemy, in the northern city of Aleppo.

 

[waqar goraya]

Will Syria hand over its Chemical weapons to UN ?

 

[OZGOD]

The New York Times has published an op-ed from Vladimir Putin, President of Russia. Whatever you say about the Seppos, you can say that there is still some freedom of the press here at least. Wonder if Obama or Cameron would have been allowed to do the same in Pravda.

OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
A Plea for Caution From Russia
What Putin Has to Say to Americans About Syria

By VLADIMIR V. PUTIN
Published: September 11, 2013 193 Comments

MOSCOW — RECENT events surrounding Syria have prompted me to speak directly to the American people and their political leaders. It is important to do so at a time of insufficient communication between our societies.

Relations between us have passed through different stages. We stood against each other during the cold war. But we were also allies once, and defeated the Nazis together. The universal international organization — the United Nations — was then established to prevent such devastation from ever happening again.

The United Nations’ founders understood that decisions affecting war and peace should happen only by consensus, and with America’s consent the veto by Security Council permanent members was enshrined in the United Nations Charter. The profound wisdom of this has underpinned the stability of international relations for decades.

No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization.

The potential strike by the United States against Syria, despite strong opposition from many countries and major political and religious leaders, including the pope, will result in more innocent victims and escalation, potentially spreading the conflict far beyond Syria’s borders. A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa. It could throw the entire system of international law and order out of balance.

Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country. There are few champions of democracy in Syria. But there are more than enough Qaeda fighters and extremists of all stripes battling the government. The United States State Department has designated Al Nusra Front and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, fighting with the opposition, as terrorist organizations. This internal conflict, fueled by foreign weapons supplied to the opposition, is one of the bloodiest in the world.

Mercenaries from Arab countries fighting there, and hundreds of militants from Western countries and even Russia, are an issue of our deep concern. Might they not return to our countries with experience acquired in Syria? After all, after fighting in Libya, extremists moved on to Mali. This threatens us all.

From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. We need to use the United Nations Security Council and believe that preserving law and order in today’s complex and turbulent world is one of the few ways to keep international relations from sliding into chaos. The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not. Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council. Anything else is unacceptable under the United Nations Charter and would constitute an act of aggression.

No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists. Reports that militants are preparing another attack — this time against Israel — cannot be ignored.

It is alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United States. Is it in America’s long-term interest? I doubt it. Millions around the world increasingly see America not as a model of democracy but as relying solely on brute force, cobbling coalitions together under the slogan “you’re either with us or against us.”

But force has proved ineffective and pointless. Afghanistan is reeling, and no one can say what will happen after international forces withdraw. Libya is divided into tribes and clans. In Iraq the civil war continues, with dozens killed each day. In the United States, many draw an analogy between Iraq and Syria, and ask why their government would want to repeat recent mistakes.

No matter how targeted the strikes or how sophisticated the weapons, civilian casualties are inevitable, including the elderly and children, whom the strikes are meant to protect.

The world reacts by asking: if you cannot count on international law, then you must find other ways to ensure your security. Thus a growing number of countries seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction. This is logical: if you have the bomb, no one will touch you. We are left with talk of the need to strengthen nonproliferation, when in reality this is being eroded.

We must stop using the language of force and return to the path of civilized diplomatic and political settlement.

A new opportunity to avoid military action has emerged in the past few days. The United States, Russia and all members of the international community must take advantage of the Syrian government’s willingness to place its chemical arsenal under international control for subsequent destruction. Judging by the statements of President Obama, the United States sees this as an alternative to military action.

I welcome the president’s interest in continuing the dialogue with Russia on Syria. We must work together to keep this hope alive, as we agreed to at the Group of 8 meeting in Lough Erne in Northern Ireland in June, and steer the discussion back toward negotiations.

If we can avoid force against Syria, this will improve the atmosphere in international affairs and strengthen mutual trust. It will be our shared success and open the door to cooperation on other critical issues.

My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.

Vladimir V. Putin is the president of Russia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/opinion/putin-plea-for-caution-from-russia-on-syria.html?_r=0

Also, when I was in Russia, I found out that Putin, despite his KGB background, appears to be an Orthodox Christian. The Russians have a deep fear of militant Islam, not just because of Chechnya but because of generations under the Tatar yoke.

 

[saeedhk]

Weapons from the US reach rebels.

 

[saeedhk]

Non lethal weapons include vechicles,advanced medical kits and communucation devices.

 

[pakistanalltheway]

Syrian Civil War

Well this just fizzled out really .

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Putin played an absolute blinder and has really pulled the rug from under the feet of American war mongerers. Obama has been left humiliated as Putin has positioned himself as an adherer of international law and wanting to save civilian lives.

The result is that Putin and Russia ( for once) appear as the good guys, the ones striving for peace versus the cowboy Americans and insignificant British Prime Minister who are wanting to drop bombs.

Who would have thought it eh?

 

[James]

Putin is a beast, got to respect the bloke.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Even Asad is saying that his offer of handing over his weapons is not down to American threats but due to Russian diplomacy.

Obama is lucky that this is his second term, I haven't seen the President of any country schooled like this in history.

 

[OZGOD]

I told you all Obama didn't want to go to war. None of you believed me. The man is known as the Avoider In Chief here in the US.

 

[LongHorn]

The Saudis and their chamchas are going to have a fit. We were already hearing that Obama was a coward for refusing to bomb Syria to glass, now we will hear that Putin is the AntiChrist

 

[Varun]

On the subject of oil...

Peak Oil is behind Syria's problems. Their fields had their heyday back in the mid-90s but they've since become a net importer and have been paying the going market rate of $108-$120 per barrel, and have done so each day for the better part of the last couple of years. There's a limit to what a nation's GDP can afford to spend on energy on a daily basis, and the economic friction has caused the country to crumble. Religion, Assad and the allegations of chemical weapons are merely the facade to project a smokescreen in front of population explosion, and natural resource and hydrocarbon depletion.

 

[saeedhk]

Syrian rebels behead four alleged government supporters publicy and in front of a photographer.These scums deserve every bullet that comes their way.

 

[PennOne]

Putin played an absolute blinder and has really pulled the rug from under the feet of American war mongerers. Obama has been left humiliated as Putin has positioned himself as an adherer of international law and wanting to save civilian lives.

The result is that Putin and Russia ( for once) appear as the good guys, the ones striving for peace versus the cowboy Americans and insignificant British Prime Minister who are wanting to drop bombs.

Who would have thought it eh?

A lot of dumb folks seem to have fallen for words alone from a leader who does the polar opposite of what he writes just look up his history

This is the man who purged hundreds of thousands of muslims in Chechnya, continues the occupation of Georgia, dozens of journalists have been killed for speaking out in the country mysteriously and has said and i quote on muslims wearing hijab

'No on in Russia wears a hijab, why would we accept something that is so alien?'

So people praise a leader who resisted all calls for disarming a Syrian leader who has killed 100,000 of his own civilians but when the threat of force comes in and he agrees he is suddenly praised as a hero?

What?!

 

[OZGOD]

Looks like the US and Russia have reached a deal to disarm Syria (of its poison gas at least). Good result all round I reckon, if they can make it stick.

(CNN) -- Russia and the United States announced Saturday that they have reached a groundbreaking deal on a framework to eliminate Syria's chemical weapons, after talks in Switzerland.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov stood side-by-side as they set out a series of steps the Syria government must follow.

Syria must submit within one week a comprehensive list of its chemical weapons stockpile, Kerry said. International inspectors must be on the ground no later than November, he said.

The framework also envisages the destruction of all Syria's chemical weapons by the middle of next year.

The best way to ensure international control of Syria's chemical weapons arsenal will be to remove as much as is feasible and to destroy it outside of Syria if possible, the framework document says.

If Syria does not comply with the procedures to eliminate its chemical weapons, the threat of force could be included in a draft U.N. Security Council resolution, Kerry said Saturday.

"We've committed to impose measures under Chapter 7 of the United Nations Security Council," he said.
Chapter 7 of the U.N. charter leaves open the ultimate possibility for the Security Council to consider the use of force if Syria fails to comply, but Russia, which has veto power on the council, is very unlikely to agree to that. Other options include the use of sanctions.

Questioned by reporters, Kerry backed off the idea of force, saying he won't specify what the remedy "might be for circumstances we don't even know yet."

He did say that President Barack Obama reserves the right to defend the United States and U.S. interests. However, he said, "the president also wants to find a diplomatic solution."

Kerry said the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad must allow "immediate and unfettered" access to international inspectors. He said there was no place for games or avoidance by al-Assad.

But Kerry said there shouldn't be a problem reaching Syria's chemical weapons sites provided the al-Assad regime cooperates, since Syria has moved its chemical weapons into areas where it has tighter control.

This will make it easier for U.N. inspectors to get to them despite the ongoing civil war, he said.

The United States and Russia have reached a shared assessment on the amount and type of chemical weapons possessed by the al-Assad regime, Kerry said.

News of the deal came after talks extended into a third day, following late-night discussions Friday.

Kerry praised Russia's President Vladimir Putin and Lavrov for seizing the initiative that resulted in the Geneva talks being called at short notice this week.

And he dismissed media speculation that his comment in London on Monday -- when he said that al-Assad could turn over his chemical arsenal to the international community within a week, "but he isn't about to do it and it can't be done, obviously" -- had been a gaffe. That remark prompted Russia to call the talks in Geneva that started Thursday.

"I purposely made the statements that I made in London and I did indeed say it wasn't possible and he won't do it, even as I hoped it would be possible and wanted him to do it," Kerry said.

"The language of diplomacy sometimes requires that you put things to the test and we did."

He and Lavrov had discussed the possibility of Syria giving up its chemical weapons before he made that remark, Kerry said, and it was subsequently discussed by Obama and Putin on the sidelines of the Group of 20 meeting in St. Petersburg.

Lavrov said the framework agreement was only the beginning of the road. But, he said, the Geneva talks had reached their aim of avoiding military intervention in Syria.

For more read http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/14/politics/us-syria/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

[OZGOD]

A lot of dumb folks seem to have fallen for words alone from a leader who does the polar opposite of what he writes just look up his history

This is the man who purged hundreds of thousands of muslims in Chechnya, continues the occupation of Georgia, dozens of journalists have been killed for speaking out in the country mysteriously and has said and i quote on muslims wearing hijab

'No on in Russia wears a hijab, why would we accept something that is so alien?'

So people praise a leader who resisted all calls for disarming a Syrian leader who has killed 100,000 of his own civilians but when the threat of force comes in and he agrees he is suddenly praised as a hero?

What?!

I think it's pretty simple. It's because he is anti-US and is seen as a counter figure to US hegemony, hence he is seen as a hero. That's enough credibility for most people on this forum.

I was in Russia just a few weeks ago and the people I talked to distrusted Muslims so much more than Westerners (not necessarily because of Chechnya, but more because of the "Tatar yoke" they experienced back in the 12th - 14th centuries and also the conflicts with the Ottomans), but Muslims (here anyway) love Putin, because he is seen as sticking it up the US. It's really more of a statement about how hated the US is that anyone who is willing to stand up to them is seen in this light. It's funny - none of the Russians I spoke to in the week I was there (an admittedly small lot) like Putin either, but they feel they need him because "the Russian people need a strong leader and there is nobody else better at the moment".

 

[PennOne]

UN report to confirm that Assad was the one who used chemical weapons on august 21

UNITED NATIONS, Sept 13 (Reuters) - A report by U.N. chemical weapons experts will likely confirm that poison gas was used in an Aug. 21 attack on Damascus suburbs that killed hundreds of people, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said on Friday.

"I believe that the report will be an overwhelming, overwhelming report that chemical weapons (were) used, even though I cannot publicly say at this time before I receive this report," Ban said at a U.N. meeting.

He was referring to an eagerly awaited report by the U.N. expert team led by Ake Sellstrom of Sweden.

U.N. spokesman Farhan Haq said that Ban does not have Sellstrom's report yet. Ban has said previously, however, that he was in contact with Sellstrom and had urged him to expedite his conclusions.

France's U.N. ambassador, Gerard Araud, told reporters Monday is the tentative date for Ban to present Sellstrom's report to the Security Council and other U.N. member states.

Ban also said on Friday that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad "has committed many crimes against humanity," though he did not say whether it was Assad's forces or rebels who used the chemical weapons in the Aug. 21 attack.

 

[LongHorn]

So people praise a leader who resisted all calls for disarming a Syrian leader who has killed 100,000 of his own civilians but when the threat of force comes in and he agrees he is suddenly praised as a hero?

What?!

Putin is no hero but the above fallacy needs to be pointed out. Assad did not kill 100,000 Syrians, plenty of Syrians were killed by Jabhat Nusra and the FSA.

It is BS to claim that all Syrians killed were killed by the govt of course it serves the purpose of those who wish to paint Assad as the only villain, but at the end of the day they have civil war, and people are killed by the government as well as the opposition, often only on the basis of their sects.

 

[LongHorn]

It's funny - none of the Russians I spoke to in the week I was there (an admittedly small lot) like Putin either, but they feel they need him because "the Russian people need a strong leader and there is nobody else better at the moment".

Putin is a dictator but is seen by most Russians as far better than the bumbling Yelstin who made Russia a laughing stock.
Americans and capitalists loved him though.
Just as Putin is seen as evil for punishing some oligarchs.

 

[PennOne]

Putin is no hero but the above fallacy needs to be pointed out. Assad did not kill 100,000 Syrians, plenty of Syrians were killed by Jabhat Nusra and the FSA.

It is BS to claim that all Syrians killed were killed by the govt of course it serves the purpose of those who wish to paint Assad as the only villain, but at the end of the day they have civil war, and people are killed by the government as well as the opposition, often only on the basis of their sects.

SignicAntly less than someone possessing chemical weapons, planes and tanks

 

[Markhor]

Reading the terms of the agreement, its a good deal that removes the ability to use chemical weapons from the government. It ensures that the two sides fight out the war with conventional weapons only, not that it makes life for civilians any better.

Apparently from the insider journos, John Kerry and Sergei Lavrov had struck up a decent working relationship - makes you think how bad a job Hilary Clinton must have been doing.

Now the focus should be for a peace deal to end the conflict outright.

 

[oyei]

edit

 

[saeedhk]

Putin is no hero but the above fallacy needs to be pointed out. Assad did not kill 100,000 Syrians, plenty of Syrians were killed by Jabhat Nusra and the FSA.

It is BS to claim that all Syrians killed were killed by the govt of course it serves the purpose of those who wish to paint Assad as the only villain, but at the end of the day they have civil war, and people are killed by the government as well as the opposition, often only on the basis of their sects.

Good post.The Al Nusra and ISI (Islamic State of Iraq) have killed many civilians.They even beheaded Christian priests.

 

[saeedhk]

If Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states had not trained, paid and sent freelance terrorists(Al Qaeda) and various other militants to Syria,the bloodshed would have been much much less.The revolution would have died down just like Bahrain.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

A lot of dumb folks seem to have fallen for words alone from a leader who does the polar opposite of what he writes just look up his history

This is the man who purged hundreds of thousands of muslims in Chechnya, continues the occupation of Georgia, dozens of journalists have been killed for speaking out in the country mysteriously and has said and i quote on muslims wearing hijab

'No on in Russia wears a hijab, why would we accept something that is so alien?'

So people praise a leader who resisted all calls for disarming a Syrian leader who has killed 100,000 of his own civilians but when the threat of force comes in and he agrees he is suddenly praised as a hero?

What?!

Hey be careful who you are calling dumb. From a purely nationalistic point of view he did nothing wrong in Chechnya. We support the Chechens because they are the same religion as us, the Russians see them as traitors.

Georgia was a US proxy state, the president of Georgia pretty much admitted it during the war.

Russia at the moment is respecting international law and aiming for a solution that will not plunge the ME into chaos, for that he must be respected. Personally I dont care how many journalists he silenced or what he thinks about hijabs, thats an internal Russian matter

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I think it's pretty simple. It's because he is anti-US and is seen as a counter figure to US hegemony, hence he is seen as a hero. That's enough credibility for most people on this forum.

He's transformed Russia from being a joke of a country during the Yelstin years to almost becoming a super power. The anti-US thing is very important. We need somebody with power that is able to keep them in check and stop them enacting their violent fantasies all over the world

I was in Russia just a few weeks ago and the people I talked to distrusted Muslims so much more than Westerners (not necessarily because of Chechnya, but more because of the "Tatar yoke" they experienced back in the 12th - 14th centuries and also the conflicts with the Ottomans), but Muslims (here anyway) love Putin, because he is seen as sticking it up the US. It's really more of a statement about how hated the US is that anyone who is willing to stand up to them is seen in this light. It's funny - none of the Russians I spoke to in the week I was there (an admittedly small lot) like Putin either, but they feel they need him because "the Russian people need a strong leader and there is nobody else better at the moment".

A problem on these forums is that people paint everything black and white. If you like one thing Putin did then you are a lover of Putin, human beings are capable of complexity and having a variety of opinions on one person.

Its not as simple as Me think Putin Good, Me think America Bad.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

SignicAntly less than someone possessing chemical weapons, planes and tanks

Are you a supporter of US wars in Afghanistan ( hazara massacre) and attacks on Saddam ( kurd gassing)?

 

[Cracket]

Good on Russia for preventing another war in the middle east. Hopefully Syria is now handled all diplomatically. Their people have suffered enough.

 

[LongHorn]

SignicAntly less than someone possessing chemical weapons, planes and tanks

true; but even the kill ratio is 70-30 in favor of Assad, it is all the more scary how the supposedly weaker side without planes and tanks managed to kill so many civilians with mere guns.

 

[OZGOD]

Putin is a dictator but is seen by most Russians as far better than the bumbling Yelstin who made Russia a laughing stock.
Americans and capitalists loved him though.
Just as Putin is seen as evil for punishing some oligarchs.

Oh yes. I had a long talk to my Moscow guide (she is about 50s), to our driver (he was in his late 30s) and also to my guide in St Petersburg (she was early 20s). I was curious as to their opinions on Yeltsin and Gorbachev, two people who are admired in the West. The young one was too young to remember Gorbachev, but the older people were unanimous in that they HATE Gorbachev, they really do. They despise him, not just because he caused the Soviet Union to self destruct but because when it did all their pension plans became worthless and the country was in chaos for years. There's even talk that he shouldn't be buried in Novodevichy Cemetery in Moscow (which I went to), where all their heroes, statesmen, great artists, etc are all buried (except for the ones buried in Red Square, like Stalin, Brezhnev, Dzerzhinsky, et). And they don't like Yeltsin because of the reason you mentioned, they saw him as a drunken buffoon and he ordered tanks to shell the Russian parliament during that revolt in the early 90s. He did get a good burial plot though (attached). The Russians are very proud of their great countrymen - this cemetery was like a museum, the headstones were spectacular.

As for Putin, I was told it was not because of his links with KGB, but more so his links with corruption, with the very same oligarchs he is now punishing, that helped him rise to power in the first place. But he is giving their country a strong voice in the world again. I got the sense that the Russian people are used to dictatorial rulers - my guide (the 50yo) turned out to be a monarchist and wanted the Romanovs back. She told me the Russians need to have a strong hand to hold them all together and make sure the country is disciplined. I guess the biggest disappointment she had with Putin was that she felt that her quality of life hadn't really improved during his time in office, not back to the point where she felt it was during the Soviet era. Obviously it was a big improvement on the shambolic Yeltsin years. Apparently they measure the on-time performance of their Metro as a gauge for whether things have improved, apparently it was more on time during the Soviet era!

Keep in mind I'm just sharing anecdotal observations I made from conversations I have from people I spoke to, I'm not a political science student or anything. Also, I attached a pic of Yeltsin's gravestone that I took a picture of when I was there.

 

[OZGOD]

He's transformed Russia from being a joke of a country during the Yelstin years to almost becoming a super power. The anti-US thing is very important. We need somebody with power that is able to keep them in check and stop them enacting their violent fantasies all over the world


A problem on these forums is that people paint everything black and white. If you like one thing Putin did then you are a lover of Putin, human beings are capable of complexity and having a variety of opinions on one person.

Its not as simple as Me think Putin Good, Me think America Bad.

Totally agree. Unfortunately when debates happen people get forced into strawman positions, particularly if the debate becomes adversarial ("I'm going to force my opinion on you because you are clearly wrong" rather than engaging "I'm going to convince you I'm right but I will listen to your views as well so I can understand why you think that way").

 

[Cracket]

Free Syrian Army fatwa forbids killing 'lice growing in blessed beards'

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...growing-in-blessed-beards-113082700282_1.html

The Free Syrian Army (FSA) has issued a fatwa prohibiting the killing of lice that appear in the beard of a Muslim due to lack of hygiene during the Jihads, claiming that lice were 'God's Muslim believing creatures' to appear in blessed beards.

An Islamic television channel, Ahlulbayt News, translated the Sharia fatwa stating that those found disobeying the fatwa would be punished with 50 lashes by Sharia and other measures will be taken against him in the Shaira Court in Aleppo, the Washington Times reports.

The fatwa claimed that blessed lice appear in the Muslim's beard because of his lack of bathing due to the water non-availability all the time on the Jihad fronts.

According to the report, the Sharia Authority in Aleppo recommended the Mujahideen brothers to dye their beards with Henna because that would reduce the itching caused by the lice.

The fatwa, meanwhile, conflicts with Islamic teachings based on hygiene, which calls for Muslims to take bath before prayers and before reading Quran, five times a day.

I don't even..

 

[PennOne]

Are you a supporter of US wars in Afghanistan ( hazara massacre) and attacks on Saddam ( kurd gassing)?

Different time different leadership if they didnt attack then they should have to save them

 

[GenericBrand]

I don't even..

Things like this doesn't surprise me anymore, over-zealousness have been taken so far by people like these and their laws that we have been to look pathetic and a laughing stock, and will continue to be so.

 

[Robert]

He's transformed Russia from being a joke of a country during the Yelstin years to almost becoming a super power. The anti-US thing is very important. We need somebody with power that is able to keep them in check and stop them enacting their violent fantasies all over the world

Dunno about the near-superpower thing - their GDP is still lower than that of the UK even.

They have a lot of ICBMs and SLBMs left, but I expect many of those are poorly maintained because the Russian Federation has so little money, and are awaiting dismantlement.

Under New START both the USA and Russia will have under 1500 deployed nuclear weapons by 2018.

 

[LongHorn]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ns-the-rebels-who-killed-his-son-8835441.html