The Middle East Crisis

[AbdulrazzaqFan]

Pathetic responses from some people. May Allah swt destroy this animal called Bashar al Assad and anyone who's assisted him in this massacre.

Syria gas attack: death toll at 1,400

August 22


THE gas attack on rebel-held areas of the Syrian capital Damascus may have killed as many as 1,400 people. More than 100 videos of the aftermath of the rocket attacks, which began in the early hours of Wednesday, have now been uploaded to the internet. They appear to show men, women and children suffering the effects of poisoning. Some are shown foaming at the mouth, others writhing in distress.

The BBC says it is unlikely that the footage is manufactured. "While it is not clear how many died in the bombardment of the sites and how many deaths were due to any exposure to toxic substances, experts say it would be almost impossible to fake so many dead and injured including children and babies."

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news...yria-gas-attack-death-toll-1400-worst-halabja

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

It would not be the first time a Baathist has used chemical weapons on his own people.

The rebels are far from innocent in this conflict but would they really have the means to deliver such an attack? - I don't know.

Yes, they can have it.
This is a very important development. Opposition will definitely benefit hugely from this attack. In current environment, Assad should be either stupid or suicidal to use chemical weapons.

 

[saeedhk]

^I doubt Assad used the chemicals.The CW were used on the day UN inspecter arrived which makes no sense.

 

[Markhor]

There are now one million child refugees now in Syria.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23806491

Article describes eyewitness accounts of the chemical attack this week. One guy's pupils contracting, another one frothing at the mouth, sounds like something out of a horror film, unbelievable.

The United States says it is reserving judgement on whether chemical weapons were used in the attack on a suburb of Damascus on Wednesday, which led to widespread casualties.

But as a clearer picture begins to emerge of the alleged attack and its consequences, some experts say they are becoming more convinced that a nerve agent may have been used.

Dozens of amateur video reports are now available online about the alleged chemical attack. Although the material is unverified, it helps provide a fuller picture of what may have happened on the outskirts of Damascus in the small hours of Wednesday morning.

In the first place the timing of the attack is becoming clearer: it was in the dead of night.

Some of those who did not survive can be seen laid out in their nightclothes in the basement shelters where they were taken. Some survivors describe being woken up by the blasts in the middle of the night while they were in bed.

"We were asleep when we were hit," says one small boy. "My mother put wet clothes on our eyes, it was burning. My father was screaming 'Get out... get out'. We saw a dead body outside as we left the house. My mother fainted and my father started crying. He put me in a car and the car left. I don't know where he is."

"I don't know where any of them are," he adds, before dissolving into tears.

Timing and location

One video report shows the headlights in the pitch dark of what appear to be ambulances with sirens screeching, apparently rushing from areas that had been under attack.

Another report shows victims being laid out on a pavement to be methodically washed down in an apparent attempt to decontaminate them. A low light, as though from car headlights, shakily illuminates the night time scene.

And inside one makeshift hospital, where victims are being frantically treated, the call to morning prayer can be heard - a call which usually comes some 45 minutes before sunrise.

Even more precise timing is suggested by posts on Facebook.
On the three main Facebook pages of Syrian opposition groups, the first mention of chemical weapons came at 02.45 local time.

A report from the Ein Tarma Co-ordination Committee announced that "a number of residents died in suffocation cases due to chemical shelling of the al-Zayniya area [in Ein Tarma]".

Two minutes later at 02.47, the Sham News Network posted an "urgent" caption, and claimed that government forces had shelled Zamalka using chemical weapons.

The third post, from the Local Co-ordination Committees (LCC), an opposition activist network, came minutes after at 02:55 with a similar report.

Significantly, an hour and a half earlier at approximately 01:15, the three groups had posted reports of fierce clashes in the same areas of the eastern Ghouta, the agricultural belt around Damascus, between Free Syrian Amy rebels and government forces, as well as shelling by government forces, and a claim that the Free Syrian Army had shot down a helicopter in the area.

The alleged chemical attacks on civilians that have so shocked the world did not, it seems, come out of the blue.

As for the location of the attacks, time and again rebel strongholds in the eastern Ghouta are mentioned, especially the towns of Irbin, Jobar, Zamalka and Ein Tarma. And to the west of Damascus, the town of Muadhamiya is named.

Symptoms

And from the overwhelming and distressing litany of footage of victims an overview of the symptoms can be gleaned.

Most of those being treated are men of all ages and very small children.

Few women have been filmed, perhaps out of respect for their privacy, possibly because they were less likely to have been sleeping on the roof in the open air, and therefore less likely to be exposed to toxic fumes.

Among those laid out on floors, or being given assistance on makeshift beds and stretchers, there are none who show any outward sign of blood or lacerations. But there are many who have extreme difficulty breathing and are being helped with oxygen masks.

One man twisting and shivering on the floor seems to be having convulsions. Several are in such distress, they seem to be foaming at the mouth or nose. One man whose stark, glazed eyes stand out from his ashen face looks almost frozen, his pupils apparently contracted - a telling indication of possible nerve gas.

Weapons and delivery systems

Even though the US government says it is still not able to say conclusively that chemical weapons were used, Stephen Johnson, a former British Army Chemical weapons expert now attached to Cranfield University's forensics department, said the mounting visual evidence seemed to point to the use of chemical weapons.

"The scale of this, the number of people who seem to be affected from the videos, the consistency of the symptoms, that's a staggering enterprise to fake - not only staggering to fake but also very easily found out once an investigation takes place."

In many quarters, however, the debate seems to be moving away from whether a chemical attack took place to which side might have been responsible. And here Stephen Johnson says an examination of the weapons and delivery systems will be crucial.

"It doesn't seem like the Russians are contesting that a nerve agent has been used, so it is more important that we determine where this has come from and who fired it.

"It's really critical to get onto the ground to see the impact sites as soon as possible. You need to try and find the remnants of theses rockets and see if they are consistent with the pictures we have seen. Outside of 14 days it's going to be really difficult to examine these scenes."

 

[saeedhk]

^Thats really sad and frightening.

 

[Bashira_taeli]

You can always count on Isreal for whipping up war hysteria.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said if Syria is not punished, its ally Iran could be encouraged to develop nuclear weapons.

"Syria has become Iran's testing ground, and Iran is closely watching whether and how the world responds to the atrocities committed by Iran's client state Syria ... against innocent civilians in Syria," Netanyahu said in a statement....

Yisrael Katz, Israel's transportation minister, said the alleged horror of gas attacks on Syrians resonated strongly in the Jewish state, founded after the Nazi Holocaust in which many of the six million Jewish dead were killed in gas chambers.

Israel has long conducted a national gas mask distribution programme for the civilian population. It has accused Syria of stockpiling chemical weapons and voiced concern they could be transferred to Hezbollah or other hostile groups.

"Today he (Assad) is murdering his own people, tomorrow he will threaten us and perhaps worse," Katz told Israel Radio.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/22/uk-syria-crisis-israel-idUKBRE97L0J020130822

 

[Bashira_taeli]

Is this the beginning of an all out war between Iran and the US.

Charlie Kaye ‏@CharlieKayeCBS
BREAKING. @CBSDavidMartin: US naval commander orders warships to move closer to Syria to be ready for possible Cruise missile strike.

 

[USaqaf]

What's really shocking about Netanyahu's diatribe is that he demands other people's children go to war for his country's children.
That's what I find distasteful.

 

[Black Zero]

obama is very clear that usa long term interest is in not interfering with Syria...

so rebels/terrorist would not get help from usa under obama administration...

EU/uk will follow their master.

now its all with gce countries to provide weapons to rebels/terrorists...

 

[Black Zero]

Is this the beginning of an all out war between Iran and the US.

usa vs iran

not gonna happen!!! as it will strengthen iran

though ksa/israel/alqaida dreaming for this for long...

obama will never start another war!

 

[Bashira_taeli]

^ Maybe not an all out war, but if US goes ahead with the reported cruise missile strike Iran & Hizbollah wont take it lying down.

 

[Black Zero]

^ Maybe not an all out war, but if US goes ahead with the reported cruise missile strike Iran & Hizbollah wont take it lying down.

why would usa do that? what iran/hizb did against usa?

will it help usa to stop iran making a.bomb?

 

[saeedhk]

As long as Russia is with Assad,there is less chance for military intervention.

 

[oyei]

In Iraq they are consider terrorist, but as soon as they cross the magical border of Iraq and Syria which turn them into freedom fighters.

This video resemble Afghany Al qaeeda, Pakistani Taliban..makes you wonder.

 

[saeedhk]

^Exactly.

 

[saeedhk]

^^These are the same people who the west is fighting in Somalia ,Yemen and Mali.

 

[James]

Is this going to be another war?

 

[majiz]

You can always count on Isreal for whipping up war hysteria.





http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/22/uk-syria-crisis-israel-idUKBRE97L0J020130822

netanyahu is such a bellend

 

[James]

Strong rumours abound that the US is about to intervene in Syria.

But I'm not sure that Obama would go through with it.

 

[Robert]

Yeah, a US fleet is heading towards the Eastern end of the Med.

 

[majiz]

justasplanned.jpeg

 

[majiz]

everyone knows the 'rebels' used the chemical weapons, yet it seems it might be used as an excuse for intervention to topple assad 'friend of iran enemy of the west' al-bashar. makes perfect sense. no really, it does.

and it's obvious israel does have something of their own agenda in all this. why else would they keep harping on about the situation to the media? you think they're just a country that happens to care more about the syrian people and human rights than most? lol....

 

[saeedhk]

Lets hope Russia sticks in for Syria.If Bashar emerges as the winner of this conflict ,It would be a big slap to the puppet Saudis ,Qataris and co.

 

[oyei]

What will Russia do if US decide to strike Syria? bomb US ships? doubt it.

 

[saeedhk]

^Can veto military action if they go through the UN.Putin is turning out to be a very loyal friend of Syria.The puppet Saudis offered to buy $15 billion worth of weapons if he abandoned Syria,he said 'No'.

 

[oyei]

^Can veto military action if they go through the UN.Putin is turning out to be a very loyal friend of Syria.The puppet Saudis offered to buy $15 billion worth of weapons if he abandoned Syria,he said 'No'.

as if US/UK need UN vote to attack Syria.

 

[saeedhk]

^I know.If they decide to go through the UN like they did for Libya.The Russians can veto it.

 

[Markhor]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23827950

Medecins Sans Frontieres says hospitals it supports in Syria treated about 3,600 patients with "neurotoxic symptoms", of whom 355 have died.

It said the patients had arrived in three hospitals in the Damascus governorate on 21 August - when opposition activists say chemical attacks were launched against rebels.

But MSF says it cannot "scientifically confirm" the use of chemical weapons.

Both sides in the conflict accuse each other of using them.

MSF says staff at the hospitals described a large number of patients arriving in the space of less than three hours with symptoms including convulsions, extreme salivation, contracted pupils and sight and respiratory problems.

The charity said many were treated with atropine, a drug administered to those with "neurotoxic symptoms".

"MSF can neither scientifically confirm the cause of these symptoms nor establish who is responsible for the attack," said MSF Director of Operations Bart Janssens.

"However, the reported symptoms of the patients, in addition to the epidemiological pattern of the events, characterised by the massive influx of patients in a short period of time, the origin of the patients, and the contamination of medical and first aid workers, strongly indicate mass exposure to a neurotoxic agent.

"This would constitute a violation of international humanitarian law, which absolutely prohibits the use of chemical and biological weapons."

And yet we have both the British Foreign Secretary and the French Foreign Minister coming out in saying that they believe Assad was behind the attack, without verifying these claims.

Not that I want to defend Assad but before whipping up hysteria about these hideous alleged chemical attacks, there is a duty that government ministers at least check the damn facts before making allegations.

Even Obama is not coming out and blaming the Syrian security forces for the attack:

US President Obama has said he is weighing his options and described it as a "big event of grave concern".

However, he told CNN on Friday that the US was still seeking confirmation that chemical weapons had been used and warned against a knee-jerk reaction.

 

[waqar goraya]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23827950



And yet we have both the British Foreign Secretary and the French Foreign Minister coming out in saying that they believe Assad was behind the attack, without verifying these claims.

Not that I want to defend Assad but before whipping up hysteria about these hideous alleged chemical attacks, there is a duty that government ministers at least check the damn facts before making allegations.

Even Obama is not coming out and blaming the Syrian security forces for the attack:

Trying to create an atmosphere to woo public opinion in their favour for another war?

US weighs military options for Syria: Hagel

ABOARD A US MILITARY AIRCRAFT: The Pentagon is moving forces into place in case President Barack Obama opts for military action against Syria, US Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel suggested Friday.

Amid calls for military intervention after the Syrian regime carried out an alleged chemical weapons attack this week, US commanders have prepared a range of “options” for Obama if he chooses to launch an attack on the Damascus regime, Hagel told reporters aboard his plane en route to Malaysia.

But he declined to provide any details on the positioning of US troops and assets amid escalation in the Syrian civil war.

“The Defence Department has a responsibility to provide the president with options for all contingencies,” Hagel said.

He spoke as a defence official said the US Navy will expand its presence in the Mediterranean with a fourth warship armed with cruise missiles.

The US Sixth Fleet, with responsibility in the Mediterranean, has decided to keep the USS Mahan in the region instead of letting it return to its home port in Norfolk, Virginia.

Three other destroyers are currently deployed in the region — the USS Gravely, USS Barry and USS Ramage. All four warships are equipped with several dozen Tomahawk cruise missiles.

The reinforcement allows the Pentagon to act more rapidly if Obama orders a military strike.

“The president has asked the Defence Department for options. Like always, the Defence Department is prepared and has been prepared to provide all options for all contingencies to the president of the United States,” Hagel said.

The Pentagon chief and other defense officials made clear no decision had been taken on whether to employ military force against President Bashar al-Assad's regime.

US newspapers have suggested disagreements within the administration over the risks of another American military intervention in the Middle East.

Hagel, who visited US Marines in Hawaii on Thursday before setting off on a week-long tour of Southeast Asia, said he expected American intelligence agencies to “swiftly” assess whether the Syrian government indeed used chemical weapons.

He said the US government would work closely with its allies.

“The international community should and will act in concert on these kinds of issues,” Hagel said. AFP

 

[Markhor]

Trying to create an atmosphere to woo public opinion in their favour for another war?

I doubt if a full-scale invasion will be launched as the West is already overstretched in the region as it is and public opinion certainly won't support it.

However I think limited air strikes on a few strategic locations might happen now, or even safe areas set up within the country where if Syrian troops enter, then there may be retaliatory strikes.

Again though it would beg the question of how strong is Russia in their support of Assad as they would respond to such a move.

 

[waqar goraya]

I doubt if a full-scale invasion will be launched as the West is already overstretched in the region as it is and public opinion certainly won't support it.

However I think limited air strikes on a few strategic locations might happen now, or even safe areas set up within the country where if Syrian troops enter, then there may be retaliatory strikes.

Again though it would beg the question of how strong is Russia in their support of Assad as they would respond to such a move.

But they can also not see their months of efforts via rebels going in vain. They have spent much effort and resources in their bid to over throw Assad.

 

[Markhor]

But they can also not see their months of efforts via rebels going in vain. They have spent much effort and resources in their bid to over throw Assad.

To be honest, as mentioned before in the thread, the west don't need to overthrow Assad and infact are probably happy with the current situation.

Right now its a stalemate, but Assad is being weakened, Russia and Iran are pouring a lot of resources too into propping up Assad and by proxy are also being weakened.

Israel are happy as there are splits within the Arab world, take the different stances between Hezbollah and Hamas, one supports Assad, other supports the rebels. Hezbollah is being weakened as they're sending fighters into Syria.

The west also know that the more hardline Islamist elements of the opposition is also being weakened.

This situation is fine for them from a Realpolitik standpoint, but the humanitarian catastrophe is troubling for everybody around the world and it doesn't look like ending, this is going to be a fight to the death quite frankly, all attempts at negotiation have not succeeded.

 

[saeedhk]

Al -Assad is not dumb ,he would not use chemical weapons as he knows the world just needs an excuse to attack Syria.

 

[saeedhk]

When the Egyptians kill unarmed protesters,nobody bats an eye.When Al Assad kills Al Qaeda and foreign terrorist,everyone loses their mind.

 

[James]

Syria has granted the UN access to investigate.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Syria has granted the UN access to investigate.

Not sure if it will make any different now. According the the Guardian:

Scientists who specialise in neurotoxins, such as Sarin, say its potency quickly dissipates about 30 minutes after exposure. Sarin is increasingly difficult to detect up until around one week after exposure, after which sampling is considered unviable.

It is now nearly five days since the attack in Damascus in the early hours of Wednesday,

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/25/syria-united-nations-inspectors


We'll probably now never know which side carried out this attack.

 

[saeedhk]

^I have very little doubt that the rebels carried out the attack.

 

[DRS]

Open up this link to dig in more into the mystery behind who used infamous Chemical Bomb.

http://rt.com/news/iran-warns-us-red-line-961/

 

[USaqaf]

The "West" should just stay out of this, let the Syrians fight tooth and nail and when the smoke rises then the West can re-engage with the victors.

 

[saeedhk]

The west is just looking for another war based on lies.The west is killing the same people in Mali,Somalia and Yemen but supporting these thugs against Assad .What can we say about the GCC,they are puppets of the west.

 

[Markhor]

There are talks of a cruise missile strike on Syria before the UN inspectors have even reported back ! Front pages of all of tomorrow's British newspapers is that air strikes are likely "in days", clearly the government have briefed the media.

 

[James]

Royal Navy linking up with the Americans. First strike due this week.

 

[OZGOD]

Syrian Civil War

There is honestly absolutely no upside for the Seppos to get involved in another military intervention. What do they gain? Syria has no oil. They just got their troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The economy is slowly on the mend and most importantly there are congressional elections coming up. I'm struggling to find even one reason (other than humanitarian) where it would be in the best Interest of the US to intervene.

Why doesn't the Arab League send troops?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[majiz]

There is honestly absolutely no upside for the Seppos to get involved in another military intervention. What do they gain? Syria has no oil. They just got their troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The economy is slowly on the mend and most importantly there are congressional elections coming up. I'm struggling to find even one reason (other than humanitarian) where it would be in the best Interest of the US to intervene.

Why doesn't the Arab League send troops?


now Free

assad is perceived as an enemy by israel.

 

[majiz]

i wonder how pakistan will react when iran gets attacked. before 2020.

 

[oyei]

I don't understand why people keep referring Syria was as "Civil war", Foreigners are entering into Syria to fight Syrian army, it is not a civil war.

 

[saeedhk]

^Exactly.It is a war against terrorism.

 

[saeedhk]

Royal Navy linking up with the Americans. First strike due this week.

Hope Russia somehow prevents that.

 

[Robert]

I don't understand why people keep referring Syria was as "Civil war", Foreigners are entering into Syria to fight Syrian army, it is not a civil war.

Same thing happened in the English Civil War and the American Civil War.

If the situation in Syria is not civil war, nothing ever was.

 

[DRS]

I don't understand why people keep referring Syria was as "Civil war", Foreigners are entering into Syria to fight Syrian army, it is not a civil war.

It is the Syrian government who axed their own foot by humiliating and torturing the Kids from High school when they held placards having message for the removal of the government. Their approach was alike to that of Egyptian Army, thus enraging people to take up the arms.

 

[Robert]

Hope Russia somehow prevents that.

How? They have never dared to take on NATO.

 

[saeedhk]

^Lets wait and see what they do this time.No sure what will be the response of the Russians.

 

[Robert]

The "West" should just stay out of this, let the Syrians fight tooth and nail and when the smoke rises then the West can re-engage with the victors.

This.

Hopefully HM Gov will stay out of this one.

 

[90MPH]

I expect a cruise missile blitz of carefully selected targets in the next few weeks.

Assad has his days numbered - there is no way in hell he will survive in power now, maybe 6 months max I will give him.

The regime will still be in tact of some sort but will have to make some sort of unity government with the opposition (that doesn't include the extremist/salafist types).

 

[DRS]

I expect a cruise missile blitz of carefully selected targets in the next few weeks.

Assad has his days numbered - there is no way in hell he will survive in power now, maybe 6 months max I will give him.

The regime will still be in tact of some sort but will have to make some sort of unity government with the opposition (that doesn't include the extremist/salafist types).

Is there any sort of Guarantee that those Cruise Missiles won't cause as many Human lives casualties as chemical gas did?

One thing is obvious that Asad have torn his country apart, Business has shut down, Properties burnt down if not, there are left in a condition which are no use to them, Refugees in neighboring countries. To top it off, more than 1 Million children under 11 are thought to be refugees. Reason being to mention all of it is whether the Intervention would be favorable or be beneficial for the people?

 

[Bashira_taeli]

Snipers shoot at UN chemical inspectors in Syria – UN spokesman

A UN inspection team vehicle in Syria has been shot at by snipers, a UN spokesman says. The team has currently come back to the government checkpoint to replace the damaged vehicle. There have been no reports of casualties so far.

The inspectors’ car “was deliberately shot at multiple times by unidentified snipers in the buffer zone area," the spokesman for the UN secretary-general, Martin Nesirky, said.

Despite earlier reports that the inspection will be suspended, the team went to the inspection area after replacing the vehicle, which is no longer serviceable, at the checkpoint.

The inspectors are now meeting the victims of the attack and taking samples, medics said.

Syrian state TV has issued a statement accusing rebel fighters of carrying out the attack, quoting Syrian information ministry.

Earlier, the team of UN experts drove off from central Damascus to inspect the site of the alleged chemical weapons attack in one of the suburbs near the capital. The convoy included six cars and was accompanied by a vehicle of security forces and an ambulance, Reuters reported.

On Sunday, the Assad government gave a green light to the mission to allow investigators access to the sight of reported attack in the suburb of Guta which according to various sources caused from "dozens" to 1,300 fatalities.

http://rt.com/news/un-chemical-oservers-shot-000/

 

[James]

Either the pro-establishment forces are making a statement that they are ready for war, or the rebels are seriously pushing for Western assistance. By attacking the UN itself they can make the case for intervention more airtight.

 

[pakistanalltheway]

Syrian Civil War

Edit

 

[Bashira_taeli]

Secretary of State John Kerry will deliver a statement on the crisis in Syria at 2 p.m. ET, the State Department announced Monday, as the U.S. girds for possible military action against the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/26/kerry-to-deliver-remarks-on-syria/?mod=e2tw

 

[oyei]

It is the Syrian government who axed their own foot by humiliating and torturing the Kids from High school when they held placards having message for the removal of the government. Their approach was alike to that of Egyptian Army, thus enraging people to take up the arms.

In Egypt, Egyptian were protesting, no foreign fighters were fighting (or protesting) against the Egyptian army.

No one armed the protestors with weapon. Situation in Syria and Egypt are not the same.

 

[saeedhk]

^Exactly.Egyptian army killed innocent unarmed protesters while Bashar is fighting armed foreign terrorists.Every other country would have handled the situation just like Assad.

 

[James]

I know what you are saying but I do think Assad is pretty bad as far as world leaders go.

 

[Bashira_taeli]

Kerry about to give statement on the Syrian situation. You can catch it live at http://www.politico.com/livestream/

 

[Bashira_taeli]

Today Lockheed Martin, #1 defense partner US gov, traded at an all-time high of $128.68

Raytheon stock hit an all-time high of $77.93 today. They make the tomahawk cruise missile

via @FearDept

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Bandar isn't giving up. This Saudi-Iranian proxy war is going to destroy the Middle East if they carry on like this much longer.

A Veteran Saudi Power Player Works To Build Support to Topple Assad

Officials inside the Central Intelligence Agency knew that Saudi Arabia was serious about toppling Syrian President Bashar al-Assad when the Saudi king named Prince Bandar bin Sultan al-Saud to lead the effort.

They believed that Prince Bandar, a veteran of the diplomatic intrigues of Washington and the Arab world, could deliver what the CIA couldn't: planeloads of money and arms, and, as one U.S. diplomat put it, wasta, Arabic for under-the-table clout.

Prince Bandar—for two decades one of the most influential deal makers in Washington as Saudi ambassador but who had largely disappeared from public view—is now reprising his role as a geopolitical operator. This time it is to advance the Saudi kingdom's top foreign-policy goal, defeating Syrian President Assad and his Iranian and Hezbollah allies.

Prince Bandar has been jetting from covert command centers near the Syrian front lines to the Élysée Palace in Paris and the Kremlin in Moscow, seeking to undermine the Assad regime, according to Arab, American and European officials.

Meanwhile, an influential protégé, current Saudi Ambassador to Washington Adel al-Jubeir, is leading a parallel campaign to coax Congress and a reluctant Obama administration to expand the U.S. role in Syria.

The conflict there has become a proxy war for Middle East factions, and Saudi Arabia's efforts in Syria are just one sign of its broader effort to expand its regional influence. The Saudis also have been outspoken supporters of the Egyptian military in its drive to squelch the Muslim Brotherhood, backing that up with big chunks of cash.

The Saudi lobbying is part of the calculus as the U.S. weighs its options in the wake of a suspected chemical attack last week. Damascus suburbs allegedly targeted are at the heart of what the Saudis now call their "southern strategy" for strengthening rebels in towns east and south of the capital.

As part of that, intelligence agents from Saudi Arabia, the U.S., Jordan and other allied states are working at a secret joint operations center in Jordan to train and arm handpicked Syrian rebels, according to current and former U.S. and Middle Eastern officials.

The CIA has put unspecified limits on its arming efforts. But the agency has been helping train rebels to better fight. Earlier this year it also began making salary payments to members of the Western-backed Free Syrian Army, U.S. and Arab officials said. There are now more CIA personnel at the Jordan base than Saudi personnel, according to Arab diplomats.

Jordan denied any training or arming of Syrian rebels was taking place in the country, something Minister of State for Media Affairs Mohammad Momani said would be contrary to Jordan's national interest and policy "to remain neutral" on Syria.

"There are no military bases in Jordan for the Syrian opposition…There are no bases of any sort. This is inconsistent with the Jordanian position that calls for a political solution to the Syrian crisis," Mr. Momani said. He added that Jordanian King Abdullah has said firmly "Jordan will never be a base of training to anyone and will never be the launching base of any military action against Syria."

For decades, wasta has been Prince Bandar's calling card. The prince also wins U.S. officials' trust in part because his background is, in its own way, so American. Though his father was a Saudi crown prince, his mother was a commoner, and he rose through the crowded royal ranks by force of will.

He attended U.S. Air Force officer training in Alabama, did graduate studies at Johns Hopkins University and worked his way into the good graces of several U.S. presidents. He has painted his personal airplane in Dallas Cowboy colors, and his son attended the pro-football draft this year at the table of owner Jerry Jones. Prince Bandar declined to be interviewed for this article.

Not everyone in the Obama administration is comfortable with the new U.S. partnership with the Saudis on Syria. Some officials said they fear it carries the same risk of spinning out of control as an earlier project in which Prince Bandar was involved—the 1980s CIA program of secretly financing the Contras in Nicaragua against a leftist government. The covert program led to criminal convictions for U.S. operatives and international rebukes.

"This has the potential to go badly," one former official said, citing the risk weapons will end up in the hands of violent anti-Western Islamists.

Many top U.S. intelligence analysts also think the Syrian rebels are hopelessly outgunned by Assad allies Iran and Hezbollah, the Lebanese Shiite group, according to congressional officials and diplomats.

Prince Bandar and Mr. Jubeir have told the U.S. they don't necessarily expect a victory by the Syrian rebels anytime soon, but they want to gradually tilt the battlefield in their favor, according to American officials who have met with them.

The Saudi plan is to steadily strengthen carefully selected groups of rebel fighters not in the radical Islamist camp, with the goal of someday seeing them in control in Damascus. Difficult as such an effort is proving to be, the Saudi thinking goes, not trying would risk a future in which Syria was dominated either by extremist Muslims from among the rebels or by Iran, Riyadh's arch rival in the quest for regional dominance.

In Jordan, officials said they couldn't yet tell whether the joint operation has reaped success in sifting moderate Syrian rebels from the extremists. Some said they couldn't rule out the possibility some Saudi funds and arms were being funneled to radicals on the side, simply to counter the influence of rival Islamists backed by Qatar. U.S. officials said they couldn't rule out that mistakes would be made.

Saudi King Abdullah, whose mother and two of whose wives hail from a cross-border tribe influential in Syria, tried for a decade to woo Mr. Assad away from Iran's sway. He failed. The king's attitude hardened in 2011 after the Assad regime, rebuffing the king's personal advice on how to ease tension, cracked down brutally on political opponents and did so during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. The king then decided to do whatever was needed to bring down Mr. Assad, American and Arab diplomats said.

Qatar also wanted the autocratic Assad regime out. While the Saudi princes initially were divided about how to proceed, some worrying that armed insurgents in Syria could later threaten Saudi stability, Qatar intervened quickly and gained influence with the rebels, according to Arab and American officials.

The Saudis stepped up rebel support in early 2012, at first by joining forces with Qatar and the United Arab Emirates to fund what was then the main opposition group, the Syrian National Council. Saudi Arabia quickly soured on the effort because the Council wasn't buying arms with the money, diplomats said, and began to push for directly arming the insurgents. It also began to work with Qatar through a command center in Turkey to buy and distribute arms.

But tensions grew over which rebels to supply. Both Saudi and American officials worried Qatar and Turkey were directing weapons to the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood. Qatari and Turkish officials denied they favored certain rebel groups.

The Saudi king also was uncomfortable at sharing control with Qatar, a Persian Gulf rival. At a meeting to coordinate arms shipments last summer, Prince Bandar took a swipe at Qatar, a tiny nation with one of the region's largest broadcasters.

Qatar is "nothing but 300 people…and a TV channel," the Saudi prince yelled into a phone, according to a person familiar with the exchange. "That doesn't make a country." Saudi officials declined to comment on the exchange.

It marked the start of a new, more aggressive drive by Prince Bandar, and a Saudi shift to operate out of Jordan instead of Turkey. In July 2012, the Saudi king—his uncle—doubled the prince's duties; already head of the national-security office, Prince Bandar took over the Saudi General Intelligence Agency as well.

"His appointment to head intelligence marked a new phase in Saudi politics," said Nohad Machnouk, a Lebanese legislator with close ties to the Saudi leadership.

Some critics of Prince Bandar within the kingdom and in Washington described him as inclined to be impulsive and overoptimistic about what he can achieve. Defenders said his enthusiasm and drive were what made him the king's go-to problem solver.

The Saudi ambassador, Mr. Jubeir, has long been courting members of Congress who could pressure the administration to get more involved in Syria. He found early support from Republican Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.

He also reached out to centrists, helping set up a rare one-on-one meeting for one of them, then-Sen. Ben Nelson (D., Neb.), with King Abdullah in Riyadh. Mr. Nelson said he told the king that if regional powers pulled together with a common strategy, it would be easier for the U.S. to become a partner.

Mr. Jubeir used his access to policy makers, including the president, to push the message that U.S. inaction would lead to greater Middle East instability down the road, American officials said.

A senior U.S. intelligence official called the Saudis "indispensable partners on Syria" and said their efforts influenced American thinking. "No one wants to do anything alone," the official said in explaining why the partnership expanded.

The Saudi goal was to get the U.S. to back a program to arm and train rebels out of a planned base in Jordan. Then-CIA chief David Petraeus was an early backer of the idea, said Arab and U.S. officials, and helped clinch Jordanian military support for the base. Gen. Petraeus declined to comment.

Prince Bandar met with the uneasy Jordanians about such a base. His meetings in Amman with Jordan's King Abdullah sometimes ran to eight hours in a single sitting. "The king would joke: 'Oh, Bandar's coming again? Let's clear two days for the meeting,' " said a person familiar with the meetings.

Jordan's financial dependence on Saudi Arabia gave the Saudis strong leverage, officials in the region and the U.S. said. They said that with the blessing of the Jordanian king, an operations center in Jordan started going online in the summer of 2012, including an airstrip and warehouses for arms. Saudi-procured AK-47s and ammunition then started arriving, Arab officials said.

Prince Bandar sent his younger half-brother and then-deputy national-security adviser, Salman bin Sultan, to oversee the operation in Jordan. Some regional officials took to calling him "mini-Bandar." Earlier this summer, Prince Salman was elevated to deputy defense minister.

Mr. Petraeus in mid-2012 won White House approval to provide intelligence and limited training to Syrian rebels at the base, including in the use of arms provided by others. Saudi and Jordanian agents began vetting the fighters to be trained, said Arab diplomats and a former U.S. military official.

Prince Bandar has largely stayed out of Washington but held meetings with U.S. officials in the region. One was in September 2012. Sens. McCain and Graham, who were in Istanbul, met him in an opulent hotel suite on the banks of the Bosporus.

Mr. McCain said he made the case to Prince Bandar that the rebels weren't getting the kinds of weapons they needed, and the prince, in turn, described the kingdom's plans. The senator said that in succeeding months he saw "a dramatic increase in Saudi involvement, hands-on, by Bandar."

In September and October, the Saudis approached Croatia to procure more Soviet-era weapons. The Saudis got started distributing these in December and soon saw momentum shift toward the rebels in some areas, said U.S. officials, Arab diplomats and U.S. lawmakers briefed on the operation. Officials in Croatia denied it was involved in weapons sales.

That winter, the Saudis also started trying to convince Western governments that Mr. Assad had crossed what President Barack Obama a year ago called a "red line": the use of chemical weapons. Arab diplomats say Saudi agents flew an injured Syrian to Britain, where tests showed sarin gas exposure. Prince Bandar's spy service, which concluded in February that Mr. Assad was using chemical weapons, relayed evidence to the U.S., which reached a similar conclusion four months later. The Assad regime denies using such weapons.

After Mr. Petraeus's November resignation over an affair, his job was handled by his deputy, Michael Morell, who privately voiced skepticism the agency could make sure any arms supplied by the U.S. wouldn't end up with hard-line Islamists, said congressional officials.

Ultimately, the new CIA chief was John Brennan, whose closest Saudi confidant when he was White House counterterrorism adviser was also focused on the risk of inadvertently strengthening al Qaeda. Since moving to the CIA, Mr. Brennan has been in periodic contact by phone with Prince Bandar, officials said.

Despite its caution, the CIA expanded its role at the base in Jordan early this year. At that point, though, the U.S. still wasn't sending weapons.

In early April, said U.S. officials, the Saudi king sent a strongly worded message to Mr. Obama: America's credibility was on the line if it let Mr. Assad and Iran prevail. The king warned of dire consequences of abdicating U.S. leadership and creating a vacuum, said U.S. officials briefed on the message.

Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal, who was the first Saudi official to publicly back arming the rebels, followed with a similar message during a meeting with Mr. Obama later that month, the officials said.

By late spring, U.S. intelligence agencies saw worrisome signs that Iran, Hezbollah and Russia, in response to the influx of Saudi arms, were ramping up support to Mr. Assad. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee backed arming the rebels, and Mr. Jubeir and Prince Bandar turned their attention to skeptics on the House and Senate intelligence committees.

They arranged a trip for committee leaders to Riyadh, where Prince Bandar laid out the Saudi strategy. It was a reunion of sorts, officials said, with Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D., Calif.) warmly scolding Prince Bandar about his smoking.

Mr. Obama in June authorized the CIA to provide arms at the Jordanian base, in limited quantity and firepower, on the understanding the U.S. could reverse course if there weren't sufficient controls on who got them, congressional officials said.

Prince Bandar flew to Paris soon after for talks with French officials. In July he was in Moscow to meet with one of Mr. Assad's prime supporters, President Vladimir Putin.

A generation ago, Prince Bandar, in a role foreshadowing his current one on behalf of Syrian opposition, helped the CIA arm the Afghan rebels who were resisting occupation by Soviet troops.

Arab diplomats said that in meeting with Russian officials this summer, the prince delivered the same message he gave the Soviets 25 years ago: that the kingdom had plenty of money and was committed to using it to prevail.

This past weekend, as the White House weighed possible military attacks against Mr. Assad, Saudi Arabia and its allies pressed Mr. Obama to take forceful action in response to the chemical-weapons reports, according to a U.S. official. The Arab message, according to another official, was: "You can't as president draw a line and then not respect it."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323423804579024452583045962.html

 

[Bashira_taeli]

"There is a clear reason that the world has banned the use of chemical weapons." -Secretary of State Kerry


Fallujah Mr. Kerry ??

 

[Bashira_taeli]

Kerry: "The UN investigation will not determine who used these chemical weapons only whether such weapons were used".

Says it is clear who carried out the attacks.

 

[Bashira_taeli]

Kerry: "The president will be making an informed decision on how to respond."

 

[James]

Very strongly argued statement.

 

[Bashira_taeli]

Kerry leaves without taking any questions.

 

[90MPH]

^Exactly.Egyptian army killed innocent unarmed protesters while Bashar is fighting armed foreign terrorists.Every other country would have handled the situation just like Assad.

No that is not entirley true. Assad and his regime started killing unarmed protesters back in March 2011. There were no armed groups back then, just normal people demanding change, especially the endemic corruption as well as the disgraceful human rights record.

Unfortunately since then some extremist groups have hijacked the cause which is exactly what the regime wanted as they can tell any doubters that they are only fighting "terrorists".
It's much more complicated than that.

I bet a lot of people have no idea that Assads father flattened a whole neighberhood in 1982 killing 20 000. There are underlying issues why some have hatred for Assad. They don't forget attrrocities like this even if all the rest of the rest of the world turns a blind eye.

I am not supporting any of this violence nor advocating a complete collapse of the current government but Assad and his family cronies have to go. They have too much blood on thier hands for any compromise with the opposition.

 

[oyei]

So how will Russia react? will they use Anti Aircraft weapon? will they let their base fall into the hands of US? this can get pretty bad if US decided to attack Syria.

 

[oyei]

I know what you are saying but I do think Assad is pretty bad as far as world leaders go.

He is bad because he was put in such situation, I am sure US, France, UK leaders would have acted in similar fashion had foreign fighters invaded their respective country.

 

[LongHorn]

What i dont understand is why Assad would use chemical weapons at this stage?

And there is nothing that sounds worse than chemical stuff killing children which is what happened, somehow Saddam being evil enough to kill babies in incubators in 1991 (a false claim) comes to mind, but we cannot be sure

 

[James]

The question regards whether or not the rebels would have access to such weapons.

It is clear that they were used but it needs to be established beyond all reasonable doubt who used them.

I also think it needs to be established who attacked the UN. Could have been Assad's men, the rebels, or just a bunch of rogues.

 

[DRS]

^Exactly.Egyptian army killed innocent unarmed protesters while Bashar is fighting armed foreign terrorists.Every other country would have handled the situation just like Assad.

I am talking about the time when the people had not resorted to using arms to make themselves heard. Perhaps, You didn't get what I am directing at. On Tumblr, a blogger had summarized the whole scenario which led to the infamous civil war. It was mentioned that Al Assad's regime manhandles in fact tortured kids from highschool who held placards asking for the fall of the government.

 

[DRS]

The question regards whether or not the rebels would have access to such weapons.

It is clear that they were used but it needs to be established beyond all reasonable doubt who used them.

I also think it needs to be established who attacked the UN. Could have been Assad's men, the rebels, or just a bunch of rogues.

Have a look at it. One shouldn't be surprised if all of it links up KSA though.

http://article.wn.com/view/2013/08/24/Syrian_soldiers_see_chemical_agents_in_rebel_tunnels_state_T/

 

[James]

Tony Blah truly is a psychopathic anti-statesman. He continues to push for intervention.

 

[Somali Pirate]

Assad got drunk on power and thought he could get away with gassing men women and children. Did he really think that he could continue 2 years of bloodbath with no consequences? fate has caught up with him.

He deserved to die for the murder of children in daarya. when the first air strike starts look out for the massive defections from the syrian coward army.

Hasan nasrashaytan is busy hunkering down in his bunker taking down a calculator and his options.

His soldiers have bombed the khalid bin walid mosque and the site where the great warrior rests. Pretty soon they will all be running back to lebanon crying ya hussein or sumat

 

[James]

Guardian reports high activity around RAF Akrotiri on Cyprus.